The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
S2E2 Crafting Inclusive Strategies for Community Impact
Let us know what you think of this podcast!
Have you ever stepped into a room and felt like you didn't quite belong? Tre Cabrera, founder of Cabrera Advisory Group LLC, knows that sensation all too well, and she's devoted her career to transforming it. In our latest episode, we peel back the layers of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) with Tre, a black woman who has carved her path through the challenging terrain of urban and regional planning and community development. She not only shares her personal narrative but also delivers powerful insights on creating spaces where underrepresented voices aren't just present but are influential in shaping the culture of organizations.
As we navigate the complex web of power dynamics and organizational culture, Tre brings to light the often-overlooked facets of authenticity and allyship in the workplace. Get ready for a heart-to-heart on the emotional bravery required from leaders to foster an environment of psychological safety—a place where every individual feels valued and heard. Through her strategic positioning within the corporate world and her understanding of cultural pressures, Tre provides us with actionable strategies for advocating for change and ensuring that our organizational values resonate with the expectations of diverse talent pools. Tune in for a thought-provoking dialogue that will challenge you to rethink how you engage with DEIB in your professional life.
You can find Tre on LinkedIn or on her website.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Welcome to another episode of the Creating Belonging podcast. Today, I have with me Trey Cabrera. Trey, if you wouldn't mind, just introducing yourself.
Tre:Good morning. Thank you so much, Justin. Yes, absolutely happy to do that. Before I jump right in, I just want to thank you again for inviting me as a guest on the Creating Belonging podcast Very exciting. Appreciate the opportunity and the space to collaborate this morning.
Tre:So let me tell you a little bit about who I am, Of course. My name is Trey Cabrera. I'm founder and principal of Cabrera Advisory Group LLC. We are a black woman owned management consulting firm based in Annapolis, Maryland. So my firm specializes in a range of services, including organizational and leadership development, specifically values based leadership and system change, and so we're doing a lot of really exciting work and encourage folks to pop in the pop on the website, jump, follow me on LinkedIn all that good stuff. So I am a professional black woman, a mother, a dog mom, a wife, a business owner, a values based leader, a systems thinker, a community member and so many other things, and so my professional work.
Tre:Let me take you on a brief journey and share a bit about my origin story. So I am a professional urban and regional planner and I've been in planning and community development for 20 years. I earned a master of regional planning degree in my areas of expertise or economic development and community planning. So I started my career in Washington DC way back when and I served in associate level roles, manager level roles with nonprofits focused on research policies, sustainable community planning, systems planning, housing policy and advocacy work. So in all these early roles I was introduced to product and program management, which I really fell in love with, but it was at a different level so it was really a clear departure from the work I had done in graduate school and college. I was introduced to managing these large scale programs and absolutely loved it. So national conferences, symposia, all these really interesting opportunities, really interesting and impactful community development partners, so it was really important work to me.
Tre:But in these early performances, early professional experiences as a young black woman, it gave me insight and data to really wrap my head around the fact that professionals who looked like me were not in these professional learning spaces Right. So I was charged with really bringing this content and organizing this really impactful and interesting opportunity for planners and other community development practitioners. But black planners, male or female, were not in the room. So that really struck me and so I became more curious about this system and what were the impediments in the system, and so simply stated where were the planners who looked like me? That was really my question. So, while I didn't necessarily have the vocabulary at the time, I knew I was curious about diversity and creating equity in systems that would ultimately widen access to opportunity right, Because the opportunity doesn't matter if there's no access right. So fast forward to a few years later.
Tre:So I had an opportunity to pursue a second graduate degree, and so I did. I earned a master of social work with concentrations in macro social work, community practice, community organization systems, infrastructure, social action and social justice work, Right. So in my MSW program I found a natural curiosity around educational equity in community schools and social policy. That fit really well with my experience as a planner, and so that really led me to this journey to focus on DEIB work, and it started to become very clear to me right. So I had many opportunities to engage with systems work, and so that was really my passion.
Tre:These imbalances and absence of equity and design were factors that continued to crop up. So in the community schools work, community development, and so my passions and background around DEIB and justice work related to my personal experiences and observations, particularly those around access, so those related to access. So I'm passionate about systems work. I talk a lot about systems thinking and the alignment of systems change, and I would say that's where my journey with DEIB and justice work really began, and so I had more concrete opportunities to do this examination in my career and really look at what are those influential factors that really underpin these conversations about DEIB and justice work. Right, but it really started at a very early point in my career and so in hindsight, when I work on projects and I have these interactions in different environments, it's really become very clear to me but challenged me to think more critically about systems access and opportunity.
Justin:Yeah, thank you. That's a really great lead-in to, I think, get us to talk a bit about and I think I've mentioned this already in another episode, but one of the chapters I'm working on for the second edition of the book is creating belonging in organizations, and so that's something that you've spent a lot of time on. I think it's twofold, really. It's number one is access to these organizations, then making sure that people feel a sense of belonging once they're there, because there's really two pieces. You said your early work was you were the one planning these events, but the people that looked like you were not attending them. I'd love to talk about that a little bit, like being someone who's tasked to put on these events, but not necessarily for people that look like you and had that realization. Let's dig into that a little bit. Tell me more.
Tre:Sure. So I think a lot of that for me, thinking about value systems. So education is a core value and it has been something that really underpinned my upbringing. And there was this understanding that you are going to college right, it was never really this conversation about you are going to graduate school, you are going to medical school that wasn't in the conversation. But you will go and get a bachelor's degree, that will happen, right.
Tre:And so I think for me, what I brought to those experiences was I had very early access to some of the best private education, some of the best opportunities over the summer, some of the best opportunities for enrichment, access to colleges of my dreams right, being able to have that as something that was a very tangible thing that I could reach out and grab. Right For me, I brought to those later experiences that, while my colleagues who did look like me did have access to those educational opportunities, did have that as their value system, there wasn't that advocacy behind that journey, right. So when you have the advocate that's really pushing you in that direction and you have that person that is allowing you to be in the spaces that give you access to those opportunities, that journey becomes something different, and so I was very fortunate that in college, in graduate school, in these other kind of educational settings, I had people who were very clearly in my corner and wanted me to do well, right. So it wasn't enough that I'm a black woman in a college pursuing this degree.
Tre:It really had to do with who is behind me, who has already risen to this other place, and now their voice and their leverage is giving me even more opportunity to step into these other spaces. So I think that my black colleagues who are not at the table with me when I'm the person organizing the event, but they weren't even invited to the event, I think that they missed that added step of having that advocate, and that very much comes from the organizational infrastructure and how it is designed and the conversations that happen within a company, an agency, a school system, a nonprofit, for folks to be able to access the opportunities that are not only going to drive their professional and personal growth, but it's really going to look like the organization is not just setting the employee up for success, but they're really advocating for that person to do well in their position and really advocating for them to do well as part of a system which is that entity.
Justin:Yeah, okay. I'm curious then, as you look at that perspective of that's why those individuals were missing from that space, was that lack of advocacy? I'm curious did you find that the difference then was that non marginalized individuals who were in those spaces had that advocacy, or was it unnecessary because of that non marginalized status?
Tre:I think they definitely had the advocacy, but I think that had it not been part of their journey, they still would have had access right.
Tre:So my operating in a professional space and really understanding who's in the room with me and knowing that I am the only or one of the only it often is very much this case of you need to figure out how to be part of that community and you need to figure out what's allowed.
Tre:What are these rules that apply to you, and how do you engage with your colleagues that you are as qualified as or even more, and so you're always playing you meaning me, a black woman always playing by a separate set of rules and not necessarily being able to raise your hand and advocate for yourself and say, hey, I saw that there is a three day conference in New York City that I'd love to go to because it's really would pair well with the work that I'm doing here and the partnerships that I'm growing in the community, or whatever the case may be, and so having the voice to speak up and say, hey, I'd like to go to that, that is, to me, was something that was learned over time, that I was even able to do that right, so able and allowed are two different things, and so working in specific work cultures where that wasn't even allowed or expected, that further stifles the individual's growth.
Tre:It stifles their perception of how well they're doing it work. And not having that advocate behind you to dodge those barriers for you and help you along the journey, that really is what has allowed me to be in very specific rooms with people that I likely would not have ever had the opportunity to be at the table with.
Justin:Yeah, there's a few things at play there that I'm hearing. You've got a just the role of gender, based on the research being kind of gender, as binary men typically raise their hand more than women, like they're more, they're bashful to say there's something and I want that. Here's an opportunity, give it to me, right. So you've got a component and then I would assume and have the research handy for this. But if I think about marginalized individuals and the fact that if we relate marginalized individuals into the creating the logging model, where they are typically minimizing, where they are masking parts of their identity, they are hiding in a way to make other people uncomfortable, that then, sorry, make other people comfortable, not uncomfortable Then that would lend to raising your hand as much. I need to have a lower profile because I'm different, yeah, and so that then would stifle that ability to speak up for opportunities.
Tre:Absolutely and it really. For me, it stems from that now, right, years and years later, growing and evolving. It really stems from this understanding and being able to name this concept of emotional courage. So what is that and what does that mean and why does it matter? So this willingness to feel and open yourself to not just experiences but the unpleasant emotions that could come with that right, so that hesitancy to raise your hand and say, hey, I'd love to do that, or hey, I'd love to lead that group, or I'd love to go to the next board meeting and happy to take notes, right, how can I contribute that type of thing that might be very unpleasant, to speak up and say, hey, I'm actually up for that if you give me the opportunity. But here's the point, thinking about the creating belonging model. Can I jump for a second and think a little bit about that, if that's okay?
Justin:Yeah, dig in.
Tre:So, for me, the model has everything to do with cultivating and nurturing environments that would welcome this type of shift, honor it and allow it to thrive, and so not dismissing the idea of change, but embracing it with open arms and leaders really modeling and advocating the self-awareness required to move the ball forward. So now, what do I do? So, truly, I'm touching on this idea of superficiality and surface glances, right, that many companies and organizations and agencies and the leaders who are in charge, they're captivated by this shiny object, right, but it's just the surface, it's the superficial piece of it. It's not digging deep, right, so they're doing that instead of doing the real work to enact lasting systems, change. So, in the absence of that, you're really speaking to this absence or void of emotional courage. So, dei and belonging and justice, work and efforts and outputs and outcomes, they will not be realized unless we dig deeper and give ourselves and our people permission to dig deeper.
Tre:So the uncomfortable feeling that we get when we talk about race and social equity and equality and change, that means you're on to something right. That feeling of this is, I feel, tense, right, that's that emotional courage kicking in and so you're engaging that right, and it should feel hard, and it should feel hard to confront what's in your way. And so that's that advocate coming behind you. And so what is the barrier, what is the obstacle, what is the impediment, what is the false hope, what is the misstep, what is the challenge? When you activate that emotional courage needed to lead, those hard parts become much easier. But it really is that emotional courage that's missing from a lot of the leadership in many organizations, and I talk a lot about this idea of a ready now leader, the readiness piece that is often overlooked as part of the leadership journey. If you're not developing those readiness skills, you're not going to be able to create an environment that welcomes something like the creating belonging model.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, it's typically the people that are like you're good at the job, so you can now lead other people to be good at the job, and that's that's such a small fraction of being a good leader.
Justin:There's so many things I want to unpack from what you said, because you've got that leaning into discomfort and I probably don't talk about that enough.
Justin:If you are really doing the work of creating belonging, leaning into authenticity, leaning into acceptance, if you are not uncomfortable while you're doing that, you're not doing it right. Yep, I probably don't talk about that enough because it is uncomfortable to to explore these things and you wait around in the muck of other people's discomfort, also understanding that, like the world's not perfect, we've got to figure this out. So there is that discomfort in exploring both sides of both authenticity and then acceptance. The other thing that I'm really getting into is this that emotional courage piece and the role that it plays in authenticity and really leaning into our authenticity and being courageous enough to be who we know we want to be, not what others expect of us, right, or we think others expect of us, and so leaning into that. And then there was one other piece that I already lost because there's so much in there, but I'm going to throw it over to you and see what you thought on all of that.
Tre:Yeah, no, absolutely, justin. You and I touched on this a little bit when we spoke earlier, but in my opinion, in my experiences, belonging is part of inclusion and authenticity is part of inclusion, and so we can think about these things a little bit. Of the connective tissue how do we bring all these pieces together? Folks will talk about and, again, as a DEI practitioner, there are opinions about so many different things. Right, people want to be able to define things in ways that make them comfortable. And how do we get to that unified place, especially when you're talking about an organization, a nonprofit, a public agency, a school system, others, right, how do you talk about bringing it all together so that folks can operate cohesively? You can have your opinion, I have mine, and how do we bring those pieces together? So, how do we think about the diversity? How do we focus on representation or the makeup of the entity? How do we talk about inclusion? How do we talk about those contributions that folks make? How do we bring all of that together? The presence of different and varying perspectives right, people want to feel included and heard, and that, I think, is that common thread, and so when we talk about emotional courage, it's again setting the stage for that.
Tre:The ready now leader that's missing that readiness piece. The ready now leader who's taking the job because of the higher salary. The ready now leader who's thinking about how do I advance my career because this would be that next step and then I'll stay here for six months, regardless of how I really facilitate these spaces and make sure that my people are well looked after and are given these opportunities to advance their own careers. The ready now leader that's just taking it for the title and they're fine, they're ready because someone has said to them come, do this job right, whether or not they've been on a journey to develop themselves, to develop as a true leader who can step into the role. The other piece of it is that emotional courage of recognizing when the role isn't for you and you're not ready.
Tre:So something that I talk about is understanding that leadership is not for everyone, stepping back and being OK with saying this actually isn't my time or this actually isn't the opportunity, having that self awareness to be able to activate that emotional courage. The barrier is right there and the barrier is you're going to have to perform in this role and because the boss, who's liked you for five years is now giving you this opportunity. You have to have that awareness, enough to say but how do I bring the people? Think, look at the full picture. How do I bring the people who are with me, how do I bring them along, right A little bit of that selflessness and starting to activate what's really for the good of the order, for a lack of a better expression, like how do we make this something that everyone can feel good about?
Justin:Yeah, yeah, and it's not often that someone's tapped on the shoulder for a promotion and they turn it down. It's an interesting perspective. There's another thing that I wanted to grab in there. So we've talked about the authenticity piece and the emotional courage that comes with that, but I also think there's this part of allyship. There are the individuals who are willing to speak up and raise their hand for an opportunity, and then there are many individuals who are not, and there's an important role of allyship. And I think there's another topic that I'm exploring in the second edition of the book of advocating for those who may not be willing to speak up, and I'll put myself in this seat.
Justin:I'm someone who's rarely bashful to speak up for what I want. I'm pretty good at self advocacy. I don't know if that's selfish, growing up as primarily an only child and just I get what I want. But regardless, I think for me, earlier in my career as a leader, I would often think if someone wants something, we'll speak up because I would. So why wouldn't they? And I think we have to step out of that of. You know, someone else might want something but they're not going to speak up for it because not everybody's comfortable and willing to do that. So how do we, as leaders, how do we as allies, make sure the world is safe, make sure that we're advocating for others in a helpful way, in service to them?
Tre:Right. So the allyship piece, and then also this understanding of psychological safety right, cannot raise my hand, am I? Can I take this reasonable risk, even if I don't get it Great, but I was still allowed. The environment allowed me. The leader has now created this space for me to be able to engage and not hesitate and not feel like I don't have enough training for that, but ask the question I've taken these two courses, but can I take another? Because I'm really interested in what you presented last week at the team meeting. Right, having that self-advocacy and that self-awareness major right. The psychological safety piece how are you creating that in a group? How are you really speaking up in that allyship role? How are you really making that kind of this underpinning of all of this other work that's coming together to create these spaces that really foster belonging? And, again, I do believe that it is aligning yourself. When you're in a role, we can look around the room. Obviously, we're all going to look different and I think way back when I was starting out in my career, I was looking who was skin is dark like mine?
Tre:Right, that's my ally. That wasn't true, right, I have been in experiences where women who are darker than me. So they are black women as well. Their skin is darker than mine. They were my biggest barrier. They were my obstacle. They were not the ally, right? I'm a young woman starting out in her career. You're the COO, right? But there was this constant friction of not really being in this space of.
Tre:This is really about developing the organization.
Tre:Right Now you have the corner office, but you're still responsible for the people who are not in the corner office, right?
Tre:This still are responsible for those people.
Tre:Those people, in theory, are marginalized because they're never going to have as much access to the opportunities that the C-suite has. They're never going to have those opportunities. They're never going to be at those tables to raise their hand and volunteer for something. Their salaries are never going to match the CEO's salary, right? And so it's this idea of looking beyond that surface piece, right, looking beyond the identity that might be readily available and readily available to see in that physical piece of it, and taking a step back and activating that ally-ship piece and understanding that there are going to be people whose opportunities will continue to flatline and they'll always be linear, and your responsibility as someone in an organization who has risen and has more access to these opportunities and more access to information to provide to the company. That's your responsibility to bring that back and give people that opportunity to hear that and really absorb that knowledge and understand how you can support them in that ally-ship piece but then how they can in turn continue to support their peers and others in the company.
Justin:I'm curious I want to explore this because I don't talk to anyone much about it but you had brought up you had hoped or assumed that other black women would be allies for you and that wasn't the case. I'm curious if there's something in there around this kind of in-group or assumed in-group competition. Is it like, hey, if there's opportunities, I'm saving them for me? Yeah, you got it and yes.
Tre:Hello, that's the short answer. That's the short answer. My experience, really, it was that hoarding of the information right, so Aligning as a black woman, right Aligning yourself to the white CEO and really getting in good with that person.
Justin:Right.
Tre:This was all strategic, right? So how do I position myself? So when it comes time to look at the promotions, then I'm already in with the CEO, not the other person. That just wasn't my style, right? So maybe it was naive, maybe it was, but that wasn't how I operated, right? It wasn't part of my value system. I don't need to undercut other people, right? I can shine. Right, I'm already very bright and shiny and I want the best for everyone, right?
Tre:But being in a situation like that and knowing that power imbalance, again, this person already being at a higher seniority than I coming into the organization, I just assumed that if it's a competition, they already have all these other people behind them. And I'm new and I'm trying to make a name for myself and do well in this role, and I do think it was a lot of that. It was the there's only two of us. There's only two of us in this company, and so it's gonna be cutthroat, because that is the culture that was established and accepted, right? And so that's the unfortunate piece, and I think there is a lot of that. But that really speaks to really embedding those values early and allowing individuals to come with their own values and then finding that alignment with the organization, operate together. What is that harmony that brings us together and aligns this and puts us on the same page, that we can do this work well and success.
Tre:And so I think for me that was the experience. It was where there's two of us, and so if it's not you, it'll be me, and it'll be me because that's what I've set up. I've already set that up for myself.
Justin:Yeah, no, it's interesting. There's definitely the role of organizational values and organizational culture in that competition. Does that competition exist? But I also think and I'm positioning this in the most respectful way of there's the need for survival. Right, I am clawing my way to get into a place where people who don't look like me normally get to, and then I'm getting close, I'm not making room for anybody else and I'm in the fault, that position because, I understand it right, it is a survival of trying to get to somewhere and it's unfortunate that we have those environments that exist, I agree, but it's an interesting perspective and, yeah, I wanna dig into that.
Tre:Yeah.
Justin:I'm curious as you look at your work in creating systems that are more inclusive, and because I think there's two things. It is there's access, and then there is do people feel welcome when they're there? Do they have a sense of belonging? What are like one or two key things that just have to happen in order for those things, those dominoes, to fall in the right way?
Tre:It's a great question. I think one of the things that it would be beautiful if more people would do this, but I know that people don't. And I've talked to people about how do we get people to engage more in their own process for looking for a job? Right, we've talked about not you and I, but I've talked in the past and I know you've heard this but that idea of interviewing the company, right, that idea when you're in there asking those questions I know certainly young professionals. They're not doing that, right, they're just gonna get the job. And so I'm thinking that there's this practice of the self-advocacy figuring out where do I want to land, rather than what's the low-hanging fruit and maybe it's going to be a good fit and maybe it's not.
Tre:I think that there's a lot of that front-end work that then translates into the job, which then translates into organizational culture. If you walk into a job and you're like I'm standing on this core value of belonging and this is why I took this job, this is why I said no to five other jobs, because I was promised that in this space, in this company culture, belonging is priority, folks having their voice to challenge things and feel like they can, but the organization setting up the environment so that again it really speaks to that psychological safety of bringing people into spaces where they can have these candid conversations. But it's a lot of the front-end work, before you even get hired, to be like what am I naming as these non-negotiables? And when it doesn't happen, who's the person I need to talk to? Not trying to ruffle any feathers, necessarily, but holding people to a kill.
Tre:The same way that the company wants you to arrive at 9 am and do your work and have the company computer and go to the conference and all of that, there are expectations that the employee is allowed to have, I expect to be paid twice a month, I expect to have health insurance, I expect to have a 401K, I expect to be able to go to the team meeting and have a culture that supports my differences and my voice and my attitudes towards things when things really aren't okay, and so we can work it in many different ways. But I do believe that it's that front-end before you even get hired, what are your expectations? And then making sure those align to the company that you're applying to, and then having the opportunity to exercise your own level of emotional courage to say, hey, fill in the blank. So I think the company has some work to do setting up spaces in this culture.
Tre:And it's not just the culture, it's really the organizational infrastructure that needs to be set in this way so that all these other things are starting to fall into place. So it's not leadership development, it's not leadership readiness, it's organizational development. It is organizational readiness, right, it's systems change, it's systems thinking, and so it's all of these things coming together, but it's really in support of the person coming in to do the job that you've advertised and are now asking someone to perform. So what are your kind of accountability pieces? And then what is that kind of for the person coming in, and how do we start to align those?
Justin:Yeah, that's great. Thank you for that. Thank you, trey. I really enjoyed having a conversation with you today. I've joined our conversations before today as well, but I want to make sure people can find you, so how can our listeners find you?
Tre:Excellent. You can find me on LinkedIn, Trey Cabrera, MRP, MSW, and you can find me at Cabrera Advisory Groups website, which is wwwcabragpcom.
Justin:Excellent, and I'll make sure that we got some links in the podcast notes so that people will have access to you. Trey, always a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and we will enjoy continuing to talk after the recording's off. So thank you all. Join us again for another episode of the Creating Longing podcast.
Tre:Thanks, Shephton runterkanal community 싫enotingloverorg.
