The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
S2E3 Unveiling True Self: The Journey from Conformity to Authentic Leadership
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Have you ever found yourself donning a mask just to blend in with the crowd, suppressing your true self for the sake of acceptance? Our latest episode invites you into the world of Alex Draper, CEO and founder of DX, who shares his transformative voyage from an English village to the bustling streets of Chicago. Alex's tale is not just about geographic relocation but an internal metamorphosis, one that many of us yearn to experience. His candid narrative takes us from the halls of a posh boarding school to the helm of a thriving company, all while grappling with the authenticity of identity and the courage required to live unapologetically.
As we converse with Alex, we uncover the essential pillars of CARE—clarity, autonomy, relationships, and equity—and their profound impact on our journey towards self-realization. This episode isn't just a story; it's a mirror reflecting the societal pressures that shape us and a guidebook on how to dismantle them. Join us for a discussion that is as much about personal growth as it is about the collective consciousness—a place where being genuine isn't just welcomed, it's celebrated. Listen in for an inspiring, heart-to-heart conversation that promises to leave you contemplating the authenticity of your own life narrative and the strength found in embracing the diversity of thought.
Find Alex on LinkedIn or check out the DX Learning website.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Hello, welcome to another episode of the Creating Belonging Podcast. Today I have with me Alex Draper. Alex, if you wouldn't mind, just introducing yourself.
Alex:Good morning, afternoon, good evening, wherever you're calling in from, wherever you are. My name is Alex. I am CEO and founder of a company called DX here in Chicago. We're here to bring care to the world.
Justin:Amazing, amazing, and I'm excited for this conversation kind of where we'll dig into. I know the work that we do is similar, but before we get started and I just want to see, as we have, all of our guests share some of their identities. So if you wouldn't mind sharing what are some identities that are relevant for you that might come up in this conversation?
Alex:Yeah, I identify as my pronouns he, him. I am white. I was born in England in a small little village I think. We have a couple of hundred people and a lot of sheep and cows. I therefore I see myself as an immigrant here in America. I only speak English, although two languages I speak English and American English, so maybe that is bilingual in some ways and I think that's it.
Justin:Yeah, that difference comes in if you're talking about biscuits or cookies and like getting that like the important things.
Alex:Chips, Sorry, Chips. Oh, chips or chips. Yeah, no, I have spent. As you can tell, when I go back to the UK they call me the Yank, but when I come here they call me the Brits. So just, I'm in this transitional who I fly, I feel like I. There's an identity crisis, if ever you heard of one. No, it's fascinating and I have adapted. They always say I think if you move to a country before a certain age I think it's 12, you adopt the language of that country and after that you keep, like my wife's Polish. She moved here when she's seven, but you wouldn't know. But of course her parents are moved here and they were older than that and they speak with a Polish accent. So just, it's always a little fascinating to for immigrants of what they keep and what they don't.
Justin:Yeah, and how that get how and when that gets cemented in. Yeah, I love it. So I want to start off with one of the questions that I think resonated with you do, as you were going through some of the creating belonging work, and I'm curious have you ever had, have you ever covered up a part of your identity because you felt maybe it wasn't welcomed?
Alex:Yeah, a couple of times when I read the book, this was the question I'm like yeah it stuck out.
Alex:I went to. I'm a white guy and I call myself privileged. I went to a. I went to a boarding school in the UK One of the best my father was had some issues, so we say one of he was an extreme narcissist and, of course, sending your son to a boarding school in the UK is deemed amazing. It made him look good, but we didn't have the money for it. We never. We didn't grow up with money and it wasn't something that that sending me to boarding school is something that we could afford. So some major sacrifices were made so I ended up going to a school where, surrounded by extremely extreme affluence, and that was what. From the age of what? Seven years of my life.
Alex:So, yeah, there was a case of I had to say things about and hide things about the real realities of how I grew up and our upbringing and where I lived and the types of things that I had to tell the story shall we say about and fabricate the truth just to fit in. The only looking back now do I just realize how traumatic that was, while I was privileged and went to an amazing school and I'm here because of it. Then get me wrong, just the trope. Now, as I look back and I'm at a age of reflection, it's just amazing, by having to not be authentic and to force acceptance over such a long time, it was definitely had a huge toll and I'll never forget it. So, yeah, that was the one that definitely springs up to mind.
Justin:Yeah. So I guess the first place I'm going with that I'm just thinking about for that, like for a kid, like growing up you were wearing a mask every day, putting that on, and I'm assuming at some point in your transition into adulthood and current day, alex, you've peeled back that mask, but it probably wasn't like one big reveal, like it had to be different layers of getting comfortable with just being you out in the world. I wanted that's where I want to dig, like what I'm not selfie a bit about that journey.
Alex:I believe, many reasons why I moved to America, but I believe escaping that was one of them. What happens towards the latter, again a consciousness, I think when you're 12, 13, there's a degree of just blissful ignorance. But the more conscious you get, the more the prefrontal cortex kicks in and the more understanding of what's going on around you start to see who this is. My fakeness continued and got more. The lies got worse in trying to fit in and I actually ended up rebelling towards the end of it.
Alex:My grades suffered and then I was the pendulum swing and when I my great grades failed I had to go back to school for a further year to. But then I went to a different type of school where I thought I fit in and I didn't fit in there either, so that the pendulum had swung for the bad kids who failed, and I was one of those bad kids who failed, and the consequences were at the time, of course, the rebellion of. I think there's only so much that you can take before you start to, in my case, rebel do something, and then that consequence led to me me just falling significantly behind, and then I truly believe it's one of the reasons why I moved here to really just start again. I can be me here. I can add to that I felt that's another story of me being here, but that I felt that was I could be me in a different country and not have to hide.
Justin:Yeah, that's. It's interesting to like to be able to start that over. There was. So one of our guests on the first season, lauren, who's a dear friend of mine, who grew up in London and she was an adult with her sexuality when she was in London and as soon as she moved to the States, started exploring that, and it was this. We, I remember we choked about how it was, like she literally came to the States for freedom, and it was that freedom of. It wasn't like why she would say that she came here, but it was that freedom of oh, I can figure out who I really. So tell me a little bit about that then, as you were exploring who you are without the need to have a mask on.
Alex:It's like there's no filter. So you moved to a country you don't know anyone. Because that's what happened here. I said that I was I call it lucky and grateful that I had the opportunity to take the then business hours. We're over here and really start their US business. So here's a phone, here's a laptop and off good life. So it was like a clean sheet of paper. There was no mask. I could literally take the mask off. I didn't have to lie, I didn't have to fit in and it was liberating.
Alex:So that was when you have had to fight for acceptance and you couldn't, I think, or fight, not be authentic and fight for acceptance, I think to just to take the filters off and the mask off was liberating and continues to be. And I think that's my life since I moved to America, especially in the latter years. Now is just that now I had the luxury to look back and think it was really fascinating. Our company, the team, did a lifeline exercise where you the 10 major positives and negatives in your life. You map them on a scale of zero to 10, how stressful were they and what were the impact and doing that exercise really was because I'm just becoming more vulnerable, I'm not too sure the word vulnerable is rich too. Very well, or European in general, just for context.
Alex:On that note, I grew up my mother, we grew up with the stiff upper lip, like you weren't allowed to be vulnerable.
Alex:We were not allowed to talk about our emotions.
Alex:I was never allowed to say I don't fit here at school, and my dad, sure as hell, made sure that there was no negotiation of where you're going to school, regardless of the fact that I was not happy. He was very obvious I wasn't happy, so there was a that's so the lack of vulnerability, the inability to make decisions and be given the autonomy, regardless of how I felt, and I think that's a very Britishness, islander thing when you're come from a place where we're just we've rused and battered and survived. So there is us, but I don't think that's a good thing For what we're talking about today with belonging. You have to be vulnerable, you have to be able to speak about what's going on inside and also people have to listen, to which I had neither of those, so just a reflection of that was like gosh. It's great to be able to reflect, but it's definitely which allows me to make sure that my kids don't grow up in the same way in which I did and they can, in your world, have a feel that they belong.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, something I'm curious about. So I've actually working on the second edition of the book and one of the areas that I know I'm continuing to dig. In fact, today I was doing some academic searches for authenticity, trying to find more of like how we're defining authenticity. I wanted to find it more further and really dig in, and because this is you exploring and finding that authenticity, I'm curious, as you've navigated that journey of taking off that mask. I would imagine and so I'm going to blow this up a little bit I would imagine that in that kind of pre Alex moving to the States, there's a lot of like when you're, it's almost the reverse of fake it till you make it like you're faking it, and so there's a part of that becomes you Right, and so I'm just curious, in that journey, how much of that you have? What have you learned about yourself? And then, what have you had to shed? That actually wasn't you.
Alex:I think when you A group of friends, number one shedding a group of friends that I don't think they would I think if they listened to this podcast be like what? So there's a group that knows you for that, and when you've faked it for so long and had to live in the skin of someone that you're not really, you're not really is it easier to face that or just drop it.
Alex:In that case, a group of number of friends that I grew up with no longer talked to and that was a part of the journey the conversations, just the conversations that you have to be able to have these types of conversations with family members, as I have done in recent years, and you just get it comes an age where or part of your life where something happens to where you can just it all just starts to come out. Which I'm in that stage, but I'm 45, so I'd say what, when my dad died last year and so this is all very recent, so when my dad died, that was the trigger for me to truly be me. So under his watch, I have always been a degree of I can't be me. I just can't be the Alex. So this is only.
Alex:That was November last year, so we're a year anniversary of me being able to shed and really just live the real Alex without what's my dad gonna think of this, what's my dad gonna think of that? And that's inhibited my ability to be true, authentic Alex. So that's just a context and moment in life and maybe all of us have that not quite that, but a trigger to which we can those who have had to have hid behind something and war of mass. There must be a trigger for all of us that just allows us to then be our true, authentic selves, and for me, that was my dad.
Justin:Yeah, that's interesting. So I'm gonna compare that to in my experience of like, when there's an event that lets you drop your guard. So in my experience as a gay man, like that has been. Like the coming out process is that shedding right. I'm sharing something with the world. That is the one thing that most people might reject me for, and so once that's, once you've let that go, then you're cool and we start to be and explore who I really am, and for some people they may never have that. Whatever, that coming out experience is right. And so it seems like you've had a couple of layers. So one was coming to the states where you could live in a place that, like you've shed the mass that you had to wear. And then the second piece is your father passing, not needing to pass whatever you're doing, needing to pass this approval. So I'm curious what you found that in the past year of what's changed for you.
Alex:The ability to speak my mind links into psychological safety? Maybe it is. I feel free of freedom of speech. I can be able to voice exactly how I feel, to voice to look back at my life and really put it out and go. That wasn't cool and what happened here. I just think it's free. I feel, whatever reason, more free than I've ever been to be able to speak my mind and be vulnerable and open and talk to people about who I really am, because I don't have to look over my shoulder.
Alex:Yeah there's no police. There's no police going to come arrest me and say you can't say that. So I don't know if that is but dad, if it's just age and just maturity, but whatever it is, I just yeah, I have never felt of an ability to be true, authentic Alex.
Justin:So you've been on this journey, continuing to find your own authenticity. I'm curious, then. So I want to flip to the other side of just the between authenticity and acceptance. And flip to the other side how have those experiences of needing to mask how that impacted the way that you approach acceptance with others?
Alex:I think it's as the years have gone by, when it comes to this side of it and acceptance, I always have less felt the need to explain things about the way I am to others and the need to. Hey, I went to Shrewsbury school and, again, the elements of the mask, doesn't? I had created habits and processes and just the way I taught and there was a need to express this as who I am to others, and I think that has subsided to the point where I don't even feel the need to talk about that and feel the importance of hey, where did you go to school or what did you do. So just, there's, there's a that used to be a thing, maybe it's a British thing, but hey, where do you go to school? There's definitely a class in UK.
Alex:That was a thing, that was a habit that I I had, which then, of course, in terms of cognitive diversity and diversity, it pigeons you when you think like that and it's, it becomes habit. It just yeah, it swayed the conversation and now it's again going to freedom. It's I don't, I'm, I don't have no filter. I am there for the other person and my ears are far. My ears are bigger than they were before Am I going down a different path?
Justin:No, I think that makes sense. I think the this idea that your ears are bigger metaphorically, I like that, but I also like the shifting of how you're the questions you're asking to almost filter through understanding who someone is. So that, what school did you go to? It was very common and I'm actually relating to that, but on the flips side and a way that I've navigated that when I was early in my professional career I hadn't yet finished my undergrad, but I was working on a team of six people. Six out of eight had advanced degrees for about unjust undergrad. Six out of eight had advanced. One of them had their, just their undergrad, and then Justin had none of that.
Justin:I had not finished my undergrad yet, and so there was a lot of imposter syndrome, and there was. It was just automatic If you're here, you obviously have had have some formal education, right, and so it was very common. But where'd you go to school? And I would just very plainly answer I went to Iowa State because that's where I started. I didn't.
Justin:I never said I finished, I didn't say anything else, I just said that's where I went to school, because that wasn't a lie, but it also wasn't the full truth and I actually don't talk about that whole journey at ton because there's all of the stigma that comes around all of that, but there's, I can understand that side of it right when I'm. When someone's asking that question, it is very much a qualifier of who are. When do you come from? Did you go to a state college or did you go to a private college Like Harvard versus where I just went to a community college? There's going to be a lot of value judgment that can come into that conversation and so I do think, like I'm hearing you say that I don't ask someone where they're going to school as like a small thing, but actually I think it's huge in acceptance is finding ways to get to know people in without typical filters.
Alex:Good. So I was on a on the right-ish path of acceptance, which is, again, less filters, more that the bit, the more like anything good in life comes from your ability to listen, talk less, listen more and be curious, which, of course, if you have filters and you're again, if you're trying to be accepted, I will only talk to people from the school or from this bucket, whatever that bucket is then of course that is a problem. The more you're trying to fit in and be accepted for that, that destroys cognitive diversity and cognitive thought, because you're just channeling into one area which is not good to take it for the modern workplace or home or anything.
Justin:Yes, so yeah, I think it is that shift in your perspective on how you're getting to know others as a part of that acceptance piece.
Alex:Yeah, and I think when you go to an elite school I don't know, I don't understand the research, but I can only imagine just the acceptance piece must be huge when you have that much privilege. Unless I'm sure you put deliberate thought into it, it will drive on the authentic and acceptance place. I wonder what it does on those two spectrums, or not just elite school, elite sport, elite, anything, when you're in the 1% of anything, I'm sure there's challenges with both authenticity and acceptance.
Justin:Yeah, I think and I'm going to say this anecdotally and not based in any research, but in my experience that elitism leads to inauthenticity, because we are trying to fit this mold of who and or.
Justin:It becomes everything that we are Right, like you go to an elite school and that's like what you lead with, of how you introduce yourself, as opposed to okay, cool, that's where you went to school, congratulations, like what else is interesting about you, right. So there's that I'm just going to say anecdotally. I have had that experience with individuals. And then I think the other piece is when you come from that elite perspective, you also put yourself in a place where others don't fit the level that you need to be at Right, and I'm also I'm saying that claiming of any elite place, but also the acceptance piece. Over the past year, with my therapist, have been working on Justin as quick to assess people and determine whether or not they fit his intellectual level, and then it makes decisions from there and I'm like breaking that down because that's something that I need to deal with at its rest.
Alex:Yeah, fascinating yeah.
Justin:So I'm curious, in this conversation, in the work that you do, what are some of the parallels that you might see?
Alex:The work that we do is. I think, as I started the conversation, dx is to bring care to the world. But what is care? Care are the human skills that gets the hard work done Priority, autonomy, relationships and equity, and I think a lot of what you're just talking about is especially in the A and the R and the E. I truly believe not much good happen, but team, for us to have the time and presence to be able to do what we are doing right, having a conversation about life, about ourselves and all of that, we can be better human beings, we can be more authentic, we can have more acceptance. So just to do that, you need time and energy and I think that's the biggest problem that we have in this world is we don't have the time and energy to be doing what we're doing. So see a therapist to be introspective, retrospective and to think versus do. America and much of the world is all about doing and we reward the do and if you're doing, you're not thinking, and this is what we're talking about. It needs thinking and deliverance and intentionality.
Alex:So care is in the workplace and in any community, any team of humans. With my wife and my kids, we're a team. The team needs clarity and if it doesn't have clarity, it's the opposite of clarity, is fear. Fear drives a dark side. If Darth Vader comes out and bad things happen, right, we can't speak up if we don't have clarity, because the opposite of clarity is fear. So we need clarity. And if we starve people have clarity, bad things happen.
Alex:Autonomy we need autonomy because if you try, the opposite of autonomy is control. Who loves to be controlled? Put your hands up. No one likes to be controlled. We date this element of control, but we don't like to be controlled. So we need to give autonomy. We use that by using our two ears and asking lots of questions and being curious, flexible, adaptable Relationships the opposite of relationships is silence, the opposite of what we're doing right now.
Alex:Right, the inability to be vulnerable and speak up is a problem, but that's where relationships come from. The opposite of equity is unfairness. So for those things, the opposites are what stops us from speaking up and being able to more than likely lead into our true, authentic self. Because I can't be vulnerable and speak up, that's a problem. So care is a framework playbook that we're bringing to the workplace for leaders to care for their teams and give them the right, adept and matched clarity, autonomy, relationships and equity, because the closer the variance between what a leader gives and what a team member needs, the more equity is felt.
Alex:So I think there's a direct correlation, because what we're trying to do as a business is get leaders to intentionally delegate, use their time in the right buckets to get their team members to speak up and be more comfortable about being go figure, vulnerable. So I think there's a direct correlation between what we're doing. We're trying to help people think and help people be more authentic by speaking up and being vulnerable, like what my journey's been like. It's not 45 years long and we can do it in a couple of years. That'd be great, because there's a lot of pain in the workplace right now. So I think there's a direct correlation between our work.
Justin:Yeah, I can definitely see the. I think your model is very much aimed at leadership, right, and so that clarity piece is key. But if we look at just belonging, I think there's the autonomy relates to authenticity and the relationships and equity relate to acceptance right, and because that's how we all coexist in a way that we get to be ourselves, do the work that we enjoy, in a way that we enjoy it and belong with other. Yeah, it was interesting. I wanted to play that and see those parallels, so thank you for indulging me.
Alex:Dev. No to that last point. My favorite question in relationships came from a lady called Amarie. In a leader's, the question I should be. One of the questions I should ask as a leader is tell me one thing that I don't know about you, but I should. That will help our relationship. I think that is a great question that creates more authenticity and belonging at the same time, because if you're open and I'm asking you, hey, tell me something I don't know about you. That would improve our relationship. It's hard. I love that question. I use that question. It's amazing what I learn about people when that question's asked. So yeah, there's a lot of commonality between sense of belonging and leaders just caring for their people.
Alex:We should make a very good job of it, by the way.
Justin:Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Alex. Thank you so much for joining me. How can people find you find out more about your work?
Alex:Just check me out at LinkedIn. These are the ones Alex Draper, dx Learning, and you'll see this face pop up. There's a newsletter on there. Sign up to that. I just put on my own vulnerable. The more as a year goes by, the more stories come out, as you've heard. So, no, that's a great way to learn about what we're doing and the work that we do. So, yeah, linkedin is probably the best one.
Justin:Great, and I'll make sure we include a link in the show notes for that. So thank you again for joining me today. It's been fun to talk to you, as always, and everyone. I'll stay tuned for another episode of the Creating Building and Podcast. Thanks, Alex.
Alex:Thanks for having me, Justin.
