The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
S2E5: Building a World of Inclusion: The NGLCC and the Power of Belonging
Let us know what you think of this podcast!
When I stepped into the vibrant world of an NGLCC conference, I didn't just find opportunities—I discovered a family. This episode brings you the voice of Justin Nelson, co-founder and president of the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce. We journey through the organization's history, its transformative rebranding, and the ways it propels the economic presence of LGBTQ-owned businesses. You'll hear how a powerful sense of belonging and an ethos of mutual success are at the core of every NGLCC initiative, from affiliate chambers to global expansion and certification programs.
Remember the days when disco balls ruled the night? We do too—and we bring that same energy to a discussion about the importance of participation and presence. Feel the pulse of a community coming together, dressed in their '80s best, at a themed disco party that's more than just a good time—it's an embrace of diversity and inclusion within the LGBTQ+ community. Justin and I dig into the strides taken to support transgender, gender expansive individuals, and communities of color, acknowledging the personal experiences that fuel these efforts and the drive to create spaces where everyone feels valued.
Closing the episode, Justin reflects on the indelible mark of his past in Casper, Wyoming, and the solidarity he found in a group of friends who understood the journey of identity and belonging. Justin graciously shares how you can engage with the NGLCC, whether through their affiliate programs, getting certified, or attending an upcoming conference. If you're looking to connect, find a touchstone in the NGLCC, or simply want to learn more, our conversation is an open invitation to a world where inclusivity isn't just a buzzword—it's a way of life. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of what it means to belong, in business and beyond.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Creating the Lunging podcast. Today I have with me Justin Nelson. He is one of the founders of the NGLCC, but I'll let Justin describe that and talk about himself a little bit, if you wouldn't mind giving us an intro.
Justin Nelson:Well. Thanks, justin as well. It's always nice to be with a fellow Justin, from who we get Jason a lot as well, so nice to meet you. Can you get Jeff? I get Jeff and I have a brother, jeff, so it's even more than Well. Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to be here and everything you're doing to help put this topic out there and share it as broadly and widely as possible.
Justin Nelson:So I am co-founder and president here at the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce, confusingly known as NGLCC, because for many years we were the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce, had a lot of brand equity in that acronym, so we did rebrand as the National LGBT Chamber, but we did keep our NGLCC acronym, which happens a lot in Washington, I think, because organizations evolved to meet the needs of the time.
Justin Nelson:We are an organization that consists of now 54 affiliate chambers across the US, state and local chambers. We now have 29 globally representing 40 countries on five continents. So it surely is a global network of LGBTQ and allied business owners, professionals and corporate partners. We work with around 450 major corporations, most of them multinational, and our backbone program is to help LGBTQ owned businesses become certified and get into the diverse supply chain to be able to bid on contracts as a diverse supplier with those 450 corporate partners. And it's not just little contracts. We do literally billions of dollars a year in business. So for companies they're at least 51% owned, operated and controlled by an LGBT person or persons. Certification is the way to go when they get there through joining their local affiliate chamber and can find that on our website at nglccorg.
Justin Reinert:That's so great. I love the organization that you have built. How long has nglcc been around?
Justin Nelson:We will be 22 years old in November. So yeah, we're out of our adolescence.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, it's so incredible. You've got to be proud of the organization that you've built. So my business performance accelerated learning. We became certified in December of 22,. I believe we're just over a year of being a certified business, and I want to. With this episode, I'm going to go a little off track than where we normally go, just because I want to highlight some of the work of the nglcc and the experiences you create, and so I'm going to tell a bit of a story and then that I want to tee up to hear a little bit about your reaction and your thoughts on how you built this.
Justin Reinert:We were together in August in Denver, right, and it was a conference unlike any that I've ever attended. It was almost and I say this in the most kind way almost uncomfortably inclusive, to the point where people would just come up to you anywhere in the hotel and say, hey, my name's so-and-so and here's what I do. What's your business? Tell me about where you're from. I made connections and friends there. I actually made friends with someone who literally lives three blocks from me here in Chicago. We had never met before met in Denver, and now we've had drinks and are talking about some projects that we're going to work on together.
Justin Reinert:So it was just such an incredible experience. And first and I think this is a part of my as a gay man, there's a bit of gardeness normally in those settings and I don't know, and or in life in general and so to be in this place where everyone's guard was down and just really genuinely connecting with others and making these amazing relationships, it was so great. So, first off, to cut it short, you've nailed creating belonging within this big community of the NGLCC, but I'd love to hear from your perspective. I don't know any thoughts on my experience or things you've heard from others. I just would love to hear about what you built Well, I love that.
Justin Nelson:Denver was your sort of dive in the pool moment. It was probably my favorite, and I have the luxury of having been to all conferences we've ever done and they just keep getting better, and I think it's just part of the people and I think there is an organic nature to it, but there is also what I would call curate authenticity. It's about creating a scenario where what you hope happens actually has the ability to happen, and it goes back 22 years now it will be 22 in November when my co-founder, chance Mitchell, and I were just sort of checking around the idea of launching this organization and there was just something really important to us. We wanted to have an organization that we wanted to belong to. We wanted to build something that we would want to join. We wanted to have events that we would want to go to and that we multiplied into other ways and team members and partners and so forth, and it has really been this building on top of.
Justin Nelson:It's almost like a Lego set here that we keep building this magnificent model of what we can do when we work together to use it or we let our guard down. I think we're all that way. I think we can be our own worst critics or a circular firing squad. There's no lot of cattiness and just if you don't know someone and that sort of thing. What we did was we said we're going to build a big sandbox and those people that want to play in the sandbox are welcome to and those that don't want to, they held with you because we're going to enjoy ourselves and we're going to build a space where people feel welcome, they feel as though they belong, they have an advocate in our organization that genuinely cares about the success of their company. I had about making genuine connections, and we're going to use that as sort of the base level that we're building this amazing organization on.
Justin Reinert:So I'd love to hear, as you've been building, there has to be a lot of intentionality that goes into setting the tone years ago, 22 years ago, to get to the point where you're at today, that this community thrives in the way that it does. Something that I am writing about in the second edition of my book is creating belonging for organizations, and how do you set out with intentionality to create belonging for large groups of people? I'm curious what those things were that you did.
Justin Nelson:It's a great question. I think a lot of it's getting in the laboratory and seeing what works and, I think, more importantly, what doesn't work. We are not the same organization. There are two things that are the same about this organization. Today is the day we were founded, and that's chance. Everything else has continually evolved.
Justin Nelson:For me, I believe that the phrase well, that's the way we've always done it is the death large of any organization, of any company. I don't care how great something has been, there's always ways of improving it, bringing new ideas to the table, and that's what we've done is constantly evolve. I remember actually seeing this sign in Caesars Palace in Las Vegas and I snapped a picture of it and I think about it a lot. It says icons reinvent, others implode. So the premise being that if you want to stay on top, if you want to stay relevant, you've got to constantly be not reinventing and losing your identity, but keeping up with the times, making sure you're being responsive to what you hear, and that's both internally and externally. And so we have a wonderful group of team members. We don't have employees, we have team NGLC. We really try to make sure that people feel like they're a part of something larger, really work hard, especially in this virtual environment. It went totally virtual post COVID. I think we're one of the organizations that made the job.
Justin Nelson:Many haven't been able to, I think, to the degree of success that we have and being very intentional about who you bring on to a team. We're a team of about 25. So while it's the large side of small, it's still small and it's people that fit the culture. I don't mean they have to agree on everything. We don't want everyone just being, yes, people. We want new, fresh ideas, people being hungry to make their work and help our stakeholders forge forward. But there's a culture and people have to be really omnipresent, I think, in ensuring that the culture that people they bring into their culture are people that help, that flourish and change it in ways that are positive. So making sure that you're not bringing in subversive personalities or constant complainers or people that all they want to do is think about the downside of things versus the true, real opportunity that we have here.
Justin Nelson:I often say I will do anything for my team. My responsibility is to the organization that are stakeholders, and that includes our team. But I would fire my mother if she weren't doing her job, and we have to be willing to make hard decisions where they need to be made and to bring others along with the vision of what we have and what we're trying to accomplish. My way, or the highway, is not a winning recipe. That doesn't mean sometimes you've got to forge forward like a steamroller, but you really do need to be able to bring people along and also share leadership and responsibility, and I think that's what's happened in our organization. That's allowed us to flourish.
Justin Nelson:And then just one last thing. It's a little bit of our secret recipe, but I'll share just a bit of it here. The other phrase I hate is don't sweat the small stuff. You always have to sweat the small stuff. When people get in a room, like you experienced in Denver, there was very little that was left a chance and the experience that we wanted people to have. It really comes from putting things in place that allow people to naturally go to the places that you hope that they get to. And it's little things, little touches that you probably wouldn't know if you just look. But we think about them and there are things that we want to make sure that we sweat the small stuff, that we consider the things, because it differentiates us from our colleagues, from our friends and friendly competitors, that sort of thing. You can put the same people in the same room but a different event, and it will feel differently.
Justin Nelson:The large portion of our attendees attend several of these a year and I'm with you. There is such a difference at our event than I feel or that people feel sometimes at others. Not that they're not wonderfully, or but there's just something different. One person said to me at conference this year I have never been so exhausted and my cup has never been more full as I'm leaving here, and I think that's really how I feel. I remember early years I used to literally fall up in the fetal position at the end of conference because I was exhausted from it, both physically and emotionally and so forth. I really get a recharge from it now. It's just something so wonderful to see the people connecting and, like you said, you met some of the lids three blocks away. So I think those are things that we focus on and that constant reinvention. Don't get stuck in the rut, don't let the wheels just spin in motion and go nowhere.
Justin Reinert:Speaking of details, something that stands out to me. So, first off, I'm in a stereotype, but when I stereotype around my own identity, I'm okay with that. But, like, seriously, give a bunch of gay men a theme party. I think it was. The Wednesday night event was a disco theme party and everyone in costumes and I mean full on costume, not just something simple. Yeah, so you have the details down and that was unlike any traditional hour long cocktail party that I've ever attended.
Justin Nelson:Well it was. We've been wanting to do an eighties party forever. Chance and I had that was sort of the heyday we were growing up. That's a lot of memories, a lot of good memories and some not so great memories. Maybe we'll talk about them a little bit later. But we wanted to do this. We're like you know what, let's do it. Denver's the right place.
Justin Nelson:And I thought naively and I'm glad I was surprised I thought maybe 30% of the people would show up in costume and when I looked around that room at the end of the night, 80% yeah probably 90% of the people had some eighties garb on and we historically have kept that party open about between 15, 30 minutes later than we usually do on the week. After it opened, an hour later than it was going to go, just because people were having fun and dancing and playing the eighties music and it was just. It was such a remarkable experience, I think, for me personally. But as I looked down and saw this joy on everyone's face, it really was like, yeah, you know what? We have something to be proud of. This is something that people belong to.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, and what was that event? I didn't stay until the close of the event, but it was that event that determined that in the future I will always stay at the host hotel, because in Denver, to save money, I stayed with some friends who live in Denver and so I wasn't going to get crazy that night and needed to drive back out. And so then I was like, okay, well, I have to stay at the host hotel from now on because there's just too much going on.
Justin Nelson:Well, that'll be the rent aside. There's actually four host hotels this year, but the main is rent full in spring. So there's that one hotel that fits us all, but the main one's attached to the convention center, so when registration goes live, I would book there as quickly as you.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, that's amazing. Well, I'll make sure to keep put a registration link in the show notes so that people can check that out. That's too intentional and creating belonging. Another thing I want to touch on because and I'm making assumptions here and I think, based on the evolution of kind of the history that I've seen, these are safe fish assumptions. I would imagine that in the early days there was very much a focus of kind of gay men, gay women, but what I experienced in Denver there were more trans business folk that I've seen ever in one place, which was just incredible. And I know that some organizations trip over themselves to really expand scope to the full spectrum of LGBTQ plus and whatever letters we want to throw in there. So I'm curious what you've done over the years to ensure that lens stays wide.
Justin Nelson:I think two things. One is never thinking you've done enough because you haven't, and so always looking at ways that you continue to expand that tits, that welcome mat. And we were very intentional several years ago now about creating programs that targeted TGX, transgender and gender expansive communities and communities of color to let them know that this was a place where they belong. We looked at actually the impetus were two things. One, it was having a conversation at one of our events and we were very proud about the trans inclusion that was happening. It was minuscule, a fraction of what you saw in Denver, and a trans woman named you probably met her at conference. Ashley came up to me and said you need to do more trans work. I said we absolutely do. What are you going to do to help? And so we created our trans TGX initiative with the whole purpose of identifying and letting trans business owners know that this was an organization that cared about them, their well-being. We went right after a scholarship program that we do with Wells Fargo, which helps trans businesses get membership in their local affiliate chamber and thereby get certified. And then we had an experience where we had a black, a business owner who belongs both to NGLCC, certified to us, also certified to the National Minority Supplier Development Council and he came to me and Lewis Green it was the acting head of NMSDC at the time and he said I don't always feel comfortable as a black man at NGLCC and I don't always feel comfortable as a gay man at NMSDC. And I said that's exactly what we don't want you feeling, so let's be intentional about this. And so we created our communities of color initiative. We launched it in Tampa I guess it would have been 2018, 2019. I don't remember exactly. And I remember we had invited every person of color that had registered because we do collect demographic information and had identified and invited them to our town hall. And I will tell you that this is just by being intentional.
Justin Nelson:I took questions and listened to the community for what's supposed to be an hour. We ended up there, I think two, two and a half hours, I think. People walked in there. They were ready to kick some ass and we walked out of there ready to kick some ass together, which was really great.
Justin Nelson:And those people have become our champions in the marketplace in saying, hey, yeah, this is an organization you can belong to. That's, this is somewhere where you can be yourself, you can feel welcome, you can feel heard, and you mentioned something in the preface to this about understanding yes, we're gay, but we're white. We do have white privilege, we have male privilege and utilizing that privilege where I'm able to be in a room where, for whatever reason, others aren't yet. So I see it as my duty to kick that door down or to walk through it as I can and sit at the table and make sure that I'm constantly advocating for that table to be larger and I think about it as allies, what allies have done for us. So I think, even within our own LGBTQ space, we have to be allies to the communities of color, allies to trans and gender expands and allies to those LGBTQ people with disabilities, so on and so on, and externally, with those larger communities. And that's what happens.
Justin Nelson:We just said we're going to be intentional about this. We've created various educational programs that specifically target our Cochi and TGX communities. We have a cohort of our Accelerate Executive Leadership and Scaling Education program that is only Cochi and TGX related, and we have, I think, nearly quadrupled the number of trans businesses, and I'm proud to say that over a quarter of our certified supply base are businesses that are owned by people of color. So is it enough? No, is it better than it was? Absolutely, and are we going to continue to keep working on it? Yes, we are, and as we bring more people in, they become more ambassadors for us in the marketplace, and it really does become that multiplying effect.
Justin Reinert:That's so amazing and those are great examples of how you've committed to evolution and reinvention. I love the idea of just not settling where you're at and the way that you spoke about enrolling others, where Ashley said to you, hey, you're not doing enough for trans individuals, and you said you're right, and what are you going to do to help us? I think it's amazing. That also speaks to I want to help, but we need more than just me, so come join us. It's incredible. So I love the work that you've done. It's incredible, and I don't want this to be just a commercial for the NGLCC. So I want to talk about Justin Nelson.
Justin Reinert:Justin Nelson, I had to say that your last name, so we know that we're not talking about myself and the third person. Sure, we can talk about you. If you'd prefer, let's talk about Justin Nelson. I'd love to hear, I want to dig into you kind of beyond NGLCC, and I know you've dug a bit into the work of creating, belonging, the model that I've got in the book, and I'd love to hear just some of your experiences, like what in your life resonated back to you in the model.
Justin Nelson:Well, I'm going to start with minimizing. I remember distinctly as an eight-year-old kid or, excuse me, eighth grade kid in Casper, wyoming, where I grew up walking down the street and having a carload of what I assumed was high schoolers drive by and yell out the window hey, are you a woman? And I yelled back no. And they yelled back Well, you sure would walk like one. And at that moment I realized, well gosh, I gotta butch it up. I need to minimize who I am.
Justin Nelson:I don't even fully understand who I am and I think about that story. I don't tell that story a lot, but here I am, 50 years old and I still remember it like it was yesterday and that's. I don't remember it fondly. I almost wondered where I would be on the spectrum if I'd had just said like you and went on a bit. It's stupid, but I did. And so I don't know if it's any different of the person I am today or not, but I do think that it made me sort of reinforce the masculine aspects of who I was, or who I was supposed to be at the time, and that's something that's a part of me and I think those experiences make us who we are today, and I always hate when we say, well, it makes you stronger and blah, blah, blah, but no, it actually makes you miserable.
Justin Nelson:Sometimes you need to think about it. But it also makes you think you know what I? I? They didn't pull over and beat the snot out of me, so I'm thankful for that, but it certainly, I think it almost led to some of them the reclusive behavior as well. I was not, I mean I should. It's different. I mean there was a guy. There was a football player, wrestler, a very popular guy who was out and about in high school and dated around and was a part of everything and but I always knew in the back of my mind who I was and wasn't. Until I got the opportunity to move to Washington for an internship and got my first taste of gay life away from home and away from closed minds, that I realized what the world was, it could be.
Justin Reinert:And where I belong, those moments and it's interesting when you say it's something that you don't share a lot. I think we all have those little, those like really small moments that actually created big meaning for us in our lives, because that thing, while you don't talk about that, that that moment, often it probably pops in your mind or is there kind of nagging at you Like how are you walking today?
Justin Nelson:Yeah, and I mean I remember I there were other kids that I assumed were gay in high school and I ran with the in crowd and I made it my purpose, I guess, at times to keep them from picking on the other kids. Well, in my own mind I was scared to death that someone would find out about me or think that about me. But I think there was at least some of that.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, and in the yeah, in the 80s and 90s, when we were growing up, like it was, that was there. Wasn't Will and Grace on television that we could look to as what success? I mean and I'm not going to call that like what success looks like as gay people, but it's at least.
Justin Nelson:Well, that was fire. The first time we saw ourselves in primetime. I think, oh my gosh, we're people now like caricatures and things get a bit annoying. But I really think at the time it was groundbreaking and so much needed, to your point. I remember as a kid the gay people that I had seen were in the police Academy movies, going to the blue oyster bar. They were not portrayed in positive light, but I remember Barty Frank when he first came out, and Dick army, the political junkie. So forget me for regressing and going on the house floor as the house leader at Colleen Barty. You know it's just remarkable how sometimes bullies don't grow up and they become the bully when they get in positions of power, although I think a lot of people, as we've seen or have and continue to push back on that. But those are things we remember. On the belonging side of things, I came out and was working on the Hill for Wyoming senator. He was wonderful. He's since passed, but I remember going around then.
Justin Nelson:I was a Christmas party in 1996. I think it would have been and I had a little too much to drink and told my roommate at the time that I was gay and he was wonderful and I'd been seeing someone, and so he and his girlfriend invited us to do something. It was the first time ever I'd been able to do something sort of publicly with another guy. And then I decided I was going to tell everyone. I wanted to hear from my mouth. And then I was going to tell my friend Jennifer, because I knew she'd tell everybody else. I'd offered that to this day, but she's very good at getting messaging out, let's put it that way. So I did.
Justin Nelson:And then I moved in with my then boyfriend. Shortly thereafter we broke up. I didn't know a soul, a gay soul, other than another guy on staff, the senator's office. So I moved into DC. I was living in Virginia and got a job one night a week at a gay bar and then was about to move. I'd added I wasn't really fulfilled. I was going to go back west. I moved all my stuff back. I was doing health care, lobbying at the time. I'd left jail and then that one night a week at the bar, and then I moved in.
Justin Nelson:I met this amazing group of people that became friends, chance being one of them to this day. We were all gathered in Fort Moderdale for my 50th. We get together for major events. It's the same group of people that I have Not that we don't have other friends or haven't made them, but the same group of people that have been my friends since Labor Day 1998. And that is a group you really belong to because they know me.
Justin Nelson:Before there was an NGLCC, they don't care about anything that comes along with it.
Justin Nelson:There's a genuine wonderful feeling for having that kind of belonging, where they don't care. They know you, they know your background, they know the stories that would keep you out of public office today if they were told that sort of stuff. So that is really important. I think in some ways we try to bring that into what we do at NGLCC. I mean, the guys and I we had a house in Rehoboth Beach, delaware, every summer and there were these theme parties that some of the houses would do. Well, of course, we dove right in the deep end on it and it became this great rivalry over the summers between this other house and our house as to who was going to have the best backyard theme party. And so we've been able to carry some of that experience and the joy that we saw from people that attended into what we try to curate for NGLCC and that, I think, makes it even more special and more close to the work that we do, and it's always like our friends are with us as we're doing it.
Justin Reinert:Yeah, so it was the backyard parties that inspired the theme parties at NGLCC.
Justin Nelson:The hands down, you may see a few recycled for 2024 and beyond over the next few years.
Justin Reinert:Well, it'll be my first time experiencing it, so I'll be fine. And one thing I want to go back and kind of capture there is there's an interesting in that storyline that you've shared. The pivot was really when you were able to be yourself, when you felt comfortable, being vulnerable, leaning into your authenticity, that you found that group of people where you had that true belonging and where it exists today. Oh, absolutely so. It speaks to that, the authenticity side of the model that we talk about a lot.
Justin Nelson:It's funny. How will you? And to be fully transparent, I think I used to be off the charts extrovert. If there was something going on, I had to be a part of it. I am much to be part of its age, part of its work, to give a lot to what we do and it takes a lot out of a person. And so I think the last time I did the virus breaks.
Justin Nelson:If you put any trust in that. I was just a slight introvert. Now Now I put my extrovert on when I get out and we're doing an advantage or something like that. But it's interesting, and so you just naturally close yourself off a little bit in a position like mine. But I find every time I'm willing to open up a little bit or be a little bit vulnerable with people or with an experience, I have yet to be disappointed by what the return to me is. So it's about remembering that we don't always remember it, but taking time to think about the good things that come when you are authentic and when you open yourself up to that experience.
Justin Reinert:Absolutely, and I do think I think as we mature. I just think we balance out Because I'm with you. I used to. I needed to be at every party, I needed to be at everything that was going on, and now I still like to be out and involved, but I'm also cool, just like chilling on the couch for a bit.
Justin Nelson:Well, my partner's forced me to have a social life again, so that's good. I met him a little over a year ago, and so he is a very social person, so we kind of balance each other out a little bit.
Justin Reinert:That happens, naturally. I love that. Well, justin, thank you so much for spending some time with me today and on the Creating Blowing Podcast. I just want to make sure, if people want to get in touch with you and or the NGLCC, what are the best ways to do that?
Justin Nelson:NGLCC is wwwnglccorg. You can learn about our affiliates, about certification, about conference, everything there. And if you want to reach out to me, you can do that at JustinNelsonnglccorg.
Justin Reinert:Great. Well, justin, thank you so much again and everyone else, join us again for another episode of the Creating Blowing Podcast. Thanks,
