The Creating Belonging Podcast
In the book, Creating Belonging: A Practical Guide to Accelerate Belonging in Organizations and Communities, Justin Reinert describes a model where belonging sits at the intersection of authenticity and acceptance. In The Creating Belonging Podcast, host Justin Reinert will continue the conversation of creating belonging by discussing others' experiences when they've been at various levels of authenticity and acceptance in their communities. Our goal with this podcast will be to help others find new paths to belonging in their communities.
The Creating Belonging Podcast
S2E6: The Interplay of Personal Identity and Workplace Dynamics
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Have you ever found yourself trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, particularly in the workplace? Tami Chapek, an executive leadership coach and the founder of We Inspire We, joins me to unravel the complexities of staying true to oneself amid the pressures of conformity, especially as a woman in the cutthroat marketing and advertising industry. As we navigate the tricky terrain of blending personal identity with professional demands, Tami's revelations highlight the transformative power of authenticity, and how it fosters stronger connections within diverse teams.
Ever wondered about the social repercussions of defying traditional life milestones? Our heartfelt conversation shifts to the deeply personal, as Tami opens up about her experiences as a 45-year-old single woman without children. She sheds light on the societal expectations, implicit judgments, and the nuanced sense of belonging that come with singlehood and childlessness. Through her candid storytelling, listeners who share these experiences will find comfort and solidarity, and perhaps a new lens through which to view their own journeys.
Bringing our chat to a close, we emphasize the ever-growing importance of digital networking as Tami extends an invitation to continue this dialogue through social media platforms, solidifying her commitment to community building and professional camaraderie. It's more than just a discussion; it's an open door to a tribe where every listener can find support, inspiration, and perhaps their own voice in the chorus of leadership and self-discovery. Join us, as we share, learn, and grow together.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Creating Belonging podcast. Today, I have with me Tami Chapek. Tami, would you mind introducing yourself to everyone?
Tami:Hi, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me, justin. As you mentioned, my name's Tami, I am an executive leadership coach and I started my business we inspire we about six and a half years ago, which is crazy to say out loud, and I started it because I really saw my passion and purpose kind of coming together and supporting other people to grow.
Justin:Typically, we like to discuss just any identities that you want to disclose ahead of our conversations. That may add context to our conversation. What might you want to share today?
Tami:Coming into this, there's a lot of options to dig into on a lot of identities that I've had to really grapple with over the past. One thing that I think just organically comes out of the work that I do is being a female leader in a white, male dominated space, and I'll share a little bit of my backstory and what led me into the business that I have today. But the high, high level of it is. I grew up in marketing and advertising and I had all male bosses. So as I went from junior employee, junior box nothing stepping into the business world and even into, you know, my, my highest role before I stepped out of corporate was in, was a vice president, and I virtually the entire time had male bosses.
Tami:I had a couple of female bosses, but across the board they, I would say, replicated a lot of masculine and male behaviors. I found myself doing that as a young person, not consciously, really kind of masking my values and who I was and how I was showing up without realizing it, and it did not work, did not help me. So I had to really figure out a lot of that stuff of how do I do myself, what does that really look like and how do I become a great leader that's authentic to me and really stepping into who I am and what I can deliver to the world, and that then led to me saying I want to help it, help other people find this way faster and not have to have as many hiccups or riddles along the way that I had to go through.
Justin:Okay, good, so female in a male-dominated industry. Any other identities that you might want to throw in?
Tami:Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I can break it down a lot, you know, on the personal side of the house. So one thing that still is glaring to me and something I grapple with, especially around the Christmas, new Year season, and I don't know why that time of year is the hardest. But you know, I'm 45 years old and I'm single and I've never been married, no kids, and I feel I get a lot of judgment and a lot of questions about that and a lot of what's wrong with you, what you know. Why haven't you found a partner? Because society says we should be partnered off, we shouldn't have families, we should be, you know, married, whatever the thing is, and I don't fit into that world at all.
Tami:It's a lot of different reasons I can also layer into there, you know I you know that singleness cascades into my relationship with my family. Again, I'm married off, all have children, and so then I'm this, this weird outlier, I turn it into being the fun aunt, right, which is great, but you know, I am often the odd person out in many situations. I think I can just layer into that even more, into family, right, I have a very religious family and I would say I'm a spiritual person, and so there's some some lack of belonging and connectivity there. And I could go on and on and on right, but those are the some that jump right out at me at the beginning.
Justin:Okay, awesome. So that gives us a lot to work with today and we'll see. We'll see if we can not go three hours. So let's go back to the, the first piece that you were talking about. You know your business and we inspire we, you know. I want to dig in a little bit there and kind of talk about you know belonging, the role of belonging in your background, and then how that, how that informs the work that you do today.
Tami:Yeah, as I mentioned, you know, when I was growing up in in that business world, without realizing it, I just I merely did the behaviors of the people around me. And so my favorite example and he is still a very close personal friend to this day, but a boss I had was a first generation Italian who grew up in New Jersey. So we had this very strong, dominant, bold personality and for him it worked right and he was very authoritative and was very senior in his career. And you know, maybe it didn't flow or people loved him, people hated him. There was no no in between, right, but I found myself starting to emulate some of his behaviors as a young white female, right and without, you know, without all those years of experience and without those ethnic roots. And I got my hands slapped Like what are you doing? You're too aggressive, too assertive, and you know women talk about this a lot. It's called the double bind, but there's this, the two factor that comes in. You're too much of these things where other people might not be judged for it.
Tami:But you know, that was one of the first times I realized and it probably was 27, maybe that I realized that, gosh, I can't act like that and that's not working. Well, what does work? And it led me down this whole path of self discovery who am I, what do I have to offer, what are those things that are often taken true to me and what are my values? What do I really appreciate and what is meaningful to me in life? And start to put those pieces of the puzzle together. Certainly there was trial and error, if you're out what stuck, what didn't, what worked, what didn't and then what still needed to be massaged. But that was probably the first time I realized that I was not behaving like me as a person, but a behavior that I thought I should have, and that disconnect really kept me out of being successful and kind of having that like sense of belonging in a leadership role.
Justin:Yeah. So I'd love to dig in a little bit on the authenticity side. You know we in in the block creating only model, we have authenticity, acceptance blowing created at the middle of those. So yeah, your journey was really kind of finding yourself outside, of emulating what you thought was just good leadership behavior. I want to talk about that a little bit more so, like Just tell me a little bit more about that process. I know you've done a lot of reflection on that journey.
Tami:Yeah, you know it's many, many years in the making and it's hard to summarize, but this is really the basis of what I do every day now in my business is helping people uncover what it is that they have, that special, unique to them. What are your natural strengths and tendencies and gifts and talents and, truly, what are your values? Right, what are those things that motivated you, like you, kind of your North Star, that allow you to wake up and show up every day and Really shining a lighter, raising awareness to those things. And once you have that, then you have the decision of saying, okay, what do I do with this? And I, you know, I joke with my clients a lot awareness is half the battle. I get like, once you know what you've got, then you can be able to do with them. But if you don't know, you're starting, you know At zero, you've got nothing to really pull out for yourself. And so that was a huge part of my process was figure Okay, what am I going to do that? What do I like doing? What are those things that give me joy and and satisfaction and fulfillment? What are the things that I'm good at? And also, analyzing even if I'm good at it, do I like doing it, because there's a disconnect there sometimes too, right, and you know values I think is such a broad word that we don't always understand but it you know really getting into. What are those things that matter most to me?
Tami:And I'm very relationship oriented, like highly connected person, and I don't mean that by way of like Networking connections, right. I mean it by way of like connect, connected to the heart, to the inner person, right. I really believe that you know relationships and people are really what makes the world go around it. As I was walking into those higher and higher roles, I was just focused on the work. This is the stuff that has to go out the door and kind of putting Relationships and the connections to people to the wayside, almost dismissing the humanity of it, because it was about like getting the work done. So I know I'm talking in circles a little bit here, but the end of the story, right, is like the realization of those things and where I was missing and then starting, if you got, how to integrate it back in and Embrace that for who I am and use that as a way, even if it's different than my leaders around me, as a way to help bring the best out of people Still have great results from a work perspective.
Justin:But finding the balance between those things and then if you were to contrast like then thinking about your sense of belonging Early and on, when you were emulating others and weren't really, you know, in your authentic self, versus when you really had leaned into and settled into your authenticity, like, contrast your sense of belonging between those two periods?
Tami:Yeah, it's a great question and I would say, like my friend got instinctive to say to you, right, like in those early days when I was emulating others behaviors, I belonged in that club. I belonged with those I leaders that I was emulating, like they accepted me as one of their own. It was just replicating what they did. And there's, you know, all human psychology people that we liked, you know, we want to work with and do similar things, right. So that became a very close knit and tight group and so this day I'm still friends with all three of those bosses that I had at that time, right. So I had this really strong sense of belonging with them.
Tami:But it was in opposition to everybody else, in opposition to all the people that I worked with and I was in a cross functional matrix kind of role where I was working with people in my function and you know, creative functions and finance and accounting functions, like all across the board, and if you think about different personalities, different motivators and intrinsic values, we're very different. So I was excluded from fitting in and belonging into those groups. So there was this huge tension that happened there. So, over time, realizing that tension and disconnect and those things weren't coming together and having to kind of step more into my authentic self and own it allowed me to belong and have a sense of acceptance across all of those groups. Maybe not a hundred percent in every capacity, but with that acceptance of self and acceptance of others right, it really started to click and come together.
Justin:Yeah, okay. So something hit me and I haven't thought of this from this angle yet in all of the work of creating the logging and I know you're familiar with the model but like would you say that in that time then, when you were emulating these other leaders but still then kind of excluded from everybody else because you were in this like exclusive club, that sounds to me actually like minimizing, because you're like hovering up and putting on this other facade, and so there was like this fake belonging that happened, but really you were sitting and minimizing. That's what I was like, that's what I had the picture that what would you say?
Tami:Yeah, it's interesting, right, because I think there's probably a lot of truth to that. It probably was without realizing, right. But I also say I also think you know, and one of the things you call it in your book and the fluidity of the model, right, like there are parts of me that behavior I emulated, there were parts of me that embraced that, that are that directive of sort of get the work done right for results. Like there are parts of me that that's very natural too. So, even though I was emulating their behavior, there still wasn't a disconnect from components of me, it wasn't a sneak from the purity or the full sense of my values and who I am. Does that, does that make sense?
Justin:Yeah, well, it's kind of like wait, I just thought of like the worst analogy. So I was just watching this cooking video the other day and they were like it was that, oh my gosh, Ethan Chamblowski, something like that on YouTube and he does all these like science videos of like I swear this is gonna have a point. I've seen videos of like the science behind food and so he was doing this one with garlic and like what's better? Fresh garlic or like chopped garlic in a jar or granulated garlic or you know, dried, diced garlic, and what you're thinking we think of is how, like the moral of the story is fresh whole garlic is always the best, no matter what.
Justin:But actually, like dried minced garlic or powdered garlic isn't bad. Like jar garlic, throw it out. But like then dried garlic is a bad, but the issue with it is because it's been processed. It's like only one dimension of flavor. Yeah, those two, all the dimensions you're getting, girl. Yes, so I have to say that like you were like the dried mint, burk and Tami right, like you were something that was still natural to you, but it was like emphasized one dimension of you and not a step you.
Tami:Yes, I think that's a wonderful analogy and that's true. Right, it was a component of me. Right, it wasn't talent, a skill right that I had, but it wasn't the best version of it or the fullest version of it. Right, it was a dirt.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's a beautiful metaphor and like, if you really want to like, maybe I'll link to the episode. It's like a 20 minute episode on garlic week, but no, that makes sense. So, like you weren't necessarily you were, you were partially minimizing. You were minimizing some of your stuff, but there was some that like it wasn't. You weren't acting out of complete unnatural, you just found this piece inside of you that actually fit and worked, but you didn't get to use the rest of it.
Tami:Yeah, that's like Like you meant, yeah, and Bear with me on this and certainly challenge the way I'm setting this up, right, but it's almost like with that group of leaders. That component became the sense of belonging with them and that was the only thing that was focused on or emphasized. So everything else was minimized everywhere else, right? So it's a blend of these things. The minimization, right, is what kept me from truly belonging in the rest of yeah, the rest of the audience around.
Justin:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so that's, I like that and that's just like an example of, I think the moral of the story is whole fresh garlic is the bath. Wow, this is ridiculous. We are full authentic self, you know. Granted, we've got to balance that with good, you know, radical acceptance of others, but I love that. Okay, I want to switch gears because there is a subject that you mentioned that I don't think we've talked about, like we haven't talked a lot about Relationships. I think one episode this season we've dipped into very surface relationship. But you had mentioned, you know, single woman, 45.
Justin:You said your age, so it's true, it's me on it, on it and and so there that impacts your belonging in different groups, in different places. I would love to explore that and just understand a little bit more.
Tami:Yeah, can't it be in every Dynamic I can't think of one word doesn't come into play and I'm gonna think a little harder on it, but it's a. It's Separates me from, I'm different from most in most situations. Right when I look at my family Parrot, siblings everyone's married, everyone has children, right, so there's there's a disconnect for me. When I look at my group of friends and this has changed over the years right when I was in my 20s I wasn't an anomaly. Now that I'm in my 40s, I am kind of an anomaly. Very few friends like and put in the same bucket as me. But you know, everyone's married or has children or both, right, so there's a separation there and that plays into you know how you manage your daily lives, how you, where you show up, what your interests are, your, your priorities, your flexibility, you everything changes when you have other things in the mix. She was up at work.
Tami:You know, back when I was in corporate America in particular, I would carry a lot of guilt that I've had to work later to compensate for my married or and or Parented friends or colleagues, right, because they needed to go home and take care of the rest of their life. I didn't have anything waiting for me. Therefore, I should pick up the slack, and I know not alone and that I've talked to a lot of Single people who feel the same way and carrying this around with them. So I just think that there's there's so many legs to it. You know, I meet people for the first time and that's one of the first questions they ask regarding those of who they are right like. Well, tell me about your family when my mom's right? You know, I don't think that's what they're really asking. So it is. It is a big disconnect and I don't know that it's always limiting, right, but it's very. I am very different than most people, especially in the age category.
Justin:Yeah, it's interesting to think about. It's something that so I Forever, up until seven years ago, identified as like the single professional. And it's weird now to think like, oh wow, I've been in a relationship now for seven years. So like I'm not about that same person, but I totally remember, like being in my 30s and this isn't a Gender remark necessarily, other than stated fact of the specific incidents Like I worked with a lot of senior leaders male senior leaders who had wives who didn't work, yeah, and like I found myself stressed out because, like I don't have time to pick up my dry cleaning. Like I would be working 12 plus hour days and they had their lunches ready from their stay-at-home partner. They had their laundry taken care of from their stay-at-home partner. I'm like, when I get to do laundry, like and nobody's doing this me, and not that we need someone to be at home doing those things, but that was something that I remember from from those days.
Tami:Yeah, support system right, you have they. There's a go-to person, your life. And certainly don't get me wrong I'm not saying that being in a relationship means that your world is a perfect break, because I know there's other good luck, these they come into it too right. But you know there's a whole support system and a whole other set of priorities and a whole set of roles that get tied to people on and in those Categories, whereas being a single person, those aren't there and so then you know, society kind of says there's something wrong with you if you're not in one of those places. It's hard to not feel that way from time to time when you have other people around you and I can't tell you how many times I've been asked the question so why are you still single? It really almost as if like, what am I doing wrong? You know, I don't know. You tell me it's like I'm still single.
Justin:Yeah, it's set. There's so much judgment in there of light. I, yeah, but that's a weird question. I've never asked that. I don't think I've ever asked that because, because I identified as like a Perpetual single person for so long, I hope that I would never skip it.
Tami:Yeah, Well, and I think people Best intentions right. I don't think people need you and that's degrading, but it does come across as like I don't know. You tell me this can be really off-putting.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you know the other piece, the other dimension of that, I think relationships and kind of I would broaden it to say like none Sis-Hadera relationships where, like you know, when you don't have kids, like I don't never had kids, I will never have kids, like there's also that dimension and different expectation, right Like there's that guilt of like you should work later because you don't have kids. So, even if you're in a relationship, so it's like the relationship and it's a parental status that othered a bit.
Tami:Totally. And even, you know, I remember my long-stagiancy job. You know I had just gotten a dog for the first time and that was like all of a sudden I have a reason to leave. When the office there I was something waiting for me, you know, and it kind of released some of that guilt that I had inadvertently been carrying around of like, well, they have to go into their kids, so they have to go home and take their kids to soccer or whatever the thing is right like. So all of a sudden, now I have this other responsibility. I don't know, it was just like this interesting shift for me. So, having that, you know, being in this silo, this world where you don't have those things, you can carry a lot of other things, other pressures on you that the people don't realize.
Justin:Yeah, I, because this is the first time we're discussing this topic like broadly on the podcast. I'm curious how you know if there's people who are listening who are like oh my gosh, I totally get this, Tammi. Like I'm in that seat too. Like how have you positively managed that in the past, have I?
Tami:like there's an assumption that I have well, there's a couple things and I think you know, depending on your attention of the question, right, how they manage it for myself, a million sanity, right and psychological safety, how they're doing with other people to help educate and maybe bring them along in a different way, right? So do you intend well, the other or the other of those?
Justin:thoughts are great.
Tami:Yeah. So for me, you know, I think the big thing is around false. You know, self acceptance, right and sorry. He's seen my, my dog, so I'd have to accept and believe that I am an amazing person, right, like there's nothing wrong with me. I just haven't found somebody that I want to send time with in that capacity. And then and I Openly I will tell you many years I didn't even try. I was still worked up with focus on work, focus on other priorities. It just wasn't a big thing for me, it was deep prioritized and that led to where I am today. So part of it is true acceptance of this is my situation. This is where I am and I am just fine and I am whole, without that other side of the house.
Tami:When it comes to the outside perceptions, that's where it gets hard. That's why I always feel like holidays are a hard time because there's a lot of less family get together. Let's have coupled off things. I spent years with my brother and a bunch of his married friends this year being the single person, odd man out, and so I had to like height myself up going into it, like there, I'm fine, it's fine, we're all just people, and really kind of separate some of those things out. So I think the big thing is like your mental state and acceptance of where you are and knowing, like, if you desire to be in a relationship, great, taking actions toward that, but acceptance of the place that you are today, person, most is number one.
Tami:And then, you know, it comes to people on kind of putting that pressure on you and asking those kinds of questions like why are you still single?
Tami:You know, I find that two things I need to do, two things to be successful. And that one is truly believe they have best intentions, right, like they believe that that's the best way for them to be happy there, for their shining that light on me in the same way, right, maybe it's the case, maybe it's not the case, but I need to believe that to have that same kind of open relationship and connection with them and not feel judged by them, I need to have best assumptions, kind of walking into it. And then I do believe that there's a time to you know kind of educate and share perspective on why those kinds of questions maybe aren't most productive. And so I've had people ask me like, well, why are you still single? And you know posing back. You know thought for broken questions like well, you know. Again you tell me what do you, what do you see? And that's a really quick way to get people uncomfortable.
Justin:Now, why aren't you single?
Tami:Yeah, right, or or what's the harm in being single? You know, I'm just kind of putting back questions of people to get them to think like gosh. Maybe that didn't come across with my intentions or the way that I meant to. Yeah, you know, I had someone recently asked me about you know, my dating or I see anybody, and you know I asked back like you know, basically like what is? Why is it you believe that people need to be in a coupled off relationship? I just kind of put it back to them and so you know, it's not. I don't mean it in a degrading way, but I mean it in a way to educate, like gosh, there are other ways to live your life than the way that you do.
Justin:Yeah, yeah. So and I love the first point of just the self acceptance, like how do you feel about it? Are you okay with it? Like, accept it, like here's where I am, and then you can be much more comfortable in being authentic with it and then engaging those conversations of like well, why aren't you single? I kind of love that, like I have fun. Whatever, leave me alone.
Tami:Right. My favorite is when my sister would ask questions like that when she was younger and she would talk about her children and point out the wrinkles on her foreheads like that.
Justin:Yes, yes, and you know the family thing, you know what's interesting. You just made me think of something explicitly and I think I've thought about but like as my younger, like single, perpetual single self, like family stuff, like I moved away from my family they're all still in Iowa and like the expectation is for holidays, for all of that, like you just come home, like what, what else do you have to do? Like you're a single, your mobile we all have appendages that we need to care for. And Now, being in a relationship and it's been more in the past recent few years that there's just now, like Justin's past, some things, so like there's actually other things and now like it, with the odd thing is it in a Counterintuitively gives me a little more agency over my life compared to family. Yes, Because even excuse, I don't know, it's just weird.
Tami:No, I. There have been years where I have not been so inclined to come home For specific holidays for various reasons going on a trip or doing something for myself and I've gotten a lot of backlash from my family on that, like why are you here? You need to be here. This type of family and your lack of understanding of there are other things you know outside of their perception of what needs to happen in my world.
Justin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's so much there. Families play challenging. Well, Tami, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I love the conversation. We got a little bit of Professional stuff, we got a little bit of personal stuff and I love all of it. Comes back to that authenticity of you know on the you know, understanding that our our full, fresh garlic cells and then being comfortable with kind of who we are in our situation and being able to navigate our spaces in that way. So I love it. Tami, thank you so much. I'll make sure that I provide some links so people can find you, connect with you. But is there anything that you would like to share before we close out About how people can find you or anything you want people to know about you?
Tami:Yeah, I mean, I think the the Recap I'd love to share just around authenticity, right, is it so important to know who you are, who are today, but also who you want to be?
Tami:Right, there's always that aspirational side of the house where we want to know how we want to grow and continue to evolve as a person. And you know, I, especially as I think about that the corporate me and as I was growing and trying to figure out how to be an authentic leader, you know that took time and that took practice and kind of figuring out like how do I show up, how do I lean into these things that are most important to me, etc. So so I just kind of want to caveat that right like it's, it is self-acceptance and it is understanding of who you are, but there's still room for growth and kind of just keep him keeping and down as well. Okay, so how to find me? And please reach out. Reach out to me on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook or whatever. I would be happy to connect my companies, we inspire, we and my name is Tami Chapek and those are easy, easy Googles, because there's not a lot of them out there.
Justin:Awesome. Thank you so much, Tami and everyone else. Join us again for another episode of creating one you podcast. See you soon.
