Episode 41: Inside the House

In this episode of Double Down Michigan, Executive Director Henry Williams sits down with Jason Wiard and Steven Meyer, two commercial casino audit managers at the Michigan Gaming Control Board, for a candid conversation about what it really means to regulate one of Michigan's most dynamic industries. From the nuts and bolts of compliance audits to the complexities of revenue oversight, Jason and Steven break down what the agency is actually looking for when it walks through a casino's doors — and why it matters.
 
The conversation also turns to the rapidly evolving world of casino gaming, exploring how online platforms tied to Detroit's three commercial casinos are audited, monitored, and held to the same standards of accountability as their brick-and-mortar counterparts. Along the way, the guys share what the public doesn't see behind the scenes and where they see the industry heading.
 
Whether you're a gaming industry professional, a policy wonk, or simply someone who's ever wondered who's watching the watchers — this episode offers a rare, inside look at the people and processes keeping Michigan's commercial gaming industry honest.
 

 
 
 

 Facebook: MichiganGCB
Twitter: @MichiganGCB
Instagram:  @michigangcb)
LinkedIn: michigangcb

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Gameplay can be fun, but it can also lead to some serious problems. So play it safe. For tips that will help, go to don'tregetthebet.org, a message from the Michigan Gaming Control Board. Welcome to Double Down Michigan, the official podcast of the Michigan Gaming Control Board, where we pull back the curtain on gaming regulation, compliance, and the work that keeps Michigan gaming industry fair, transparent, and accountable. I'm Executive Director Henry Williams, and today we're sitting down with two of our very own, Jason Wyard and Steven Meyer, commercial casino audit managers here at the agency. We're going to talk about what compliance auditing really looks like, how revenue oversight works, and what the growth of iGaming means for regulators and operators alike. Whether you're in the industry, a curious player, or just want to understand how this all works behind the scenes, this one's for you. Let's get into it. Welcome to the podcast, Jason and Steve. Good afternoon. Thank you for having us. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about your roles at the agency and how did you each end up in gaming regulation? So let's start with you, Jason.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Okay. Good afternoon, Henry. Thanks for having us. I'm the operations audit section manager, overseeing the operations of the three Detroit casinos, the commercial casinos, the brick and mortar casinos here in Detroit. So our main goal is we want to make sure that revenue, the gaming revenue that they uh are out there is properly reported, and that the three casinos are in compliance with their intel controls, the gaming act, and the administrative rules. So part of that is the Michigan Gaming Control Act imposed a wagering tax on adjusted gross receipts. So adjusted gross receipts is the licensing's gaming receipts less any w winnings paid to wagerers. So they have to file a daily tax return that then it calculates the adjusted gross receipts, and then from there the wagering tax that they have to pay to the state of Michigan and the city of Detroit. So with that, there's a gaming tax return for uh table games and slot machines, so the electronic gaming machines, and then there's one for retail sports betting since that went in uh started in March of 2020, right before COVID. So the 8.1% is the state tax for on the table games and the slot machines, and then the city gets 10.9% of that portion, and then retail sports betting state is 3.78%, and the city is 4.62%, and that's all by uh the gaming acts and how those were uh written up.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So Jason, just for the public, so basically the adjusted gross receipts is what's left after expenses are paid or after deductions are taken away.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

After the w amounts paid to the patriot, so a jackpot. So they'll get they'll get the revenue from the wagering and then they'll back out any winnings, and then that's what's the adjusted gross receipts that they um will get taxed on. So we'll we'll talk about a little bit more in a future questions here, but it'll kind of break it down a little more detail and how that is compiled and the tax return grabs it. Okay. Um but the importance of all this is a state of wage the state wagering tax is important because it's transferred to the school aid fund, and then that helps support our K through twelve public school systems and education, and then the city of Detroit wagering tax is paid separately right to them, and that supports various programs in their budget. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Uh so which is now the second highest dollars the city of Detroit brings in.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yeah, yeah, it's I don't know the percentage, but it's up there. I know at one point it was like 10 to 12 percent of their budget. Yes, and then on top of that, uh we do compile monthly revenue and statistical reports for the board members, like for today's board meeting, and then for executive management, and then we also provide statistical information for uh our public information officer for when we released the press release, and that was today. We just released that press release, so that information was compiled by us, and then we also propose uh revenue spreadsheets to the Michigan Gaming Control website, so all that information is out there that we post on that revenue, and then we also assist the public information officer with uh media requests. So if the media has follow-up requests on revenue, the public information officer will reach out to us and I'll we'll kind of help compile the information for her response. In addition, along with that and other sections of the gaming control board, we always want to make sure they're in compliance with the gaming act administrative rules and the approved internal control standards. And with that, the those internal controls have to be approved by the board for the rules. So anytime they want an internal control change, they have to request board approval. So Steve and I oversee a committee, we call it the internal control review team, short for ICER. Uh and we receive those requests from the casinos, we review those, and we'll try to work with the casinos to reduce any um risks that we might have or uh concerns that we might have that they're trying to eliminate, and we'll try to strengthen those controls with them before we outright deny it. Um sometimes they want to request something for cost-benefit, it might be burned some, so we'll take a look at that and get statistics and information and make a determination on that. So we do try to work with them and instead of just outright say no, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Okay, and just for the um public, Jason, so basically internal controls is how the casino tells us how they're going to comply with our requirements.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah, there are additional procedures that they have to implement to make sure that assets are safeguarded, revenues properly reported, and um safeguarding those assets, and then uh just segregation of duties, so not one person is doing everything. We have multiple people in a transaction. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Mary Jason, and how did you get into game irregulation?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Well, uh I was working at a CPA firm in Indianapolis at the time, many years ago, and right out of school. I went to school in Indiana, lived in Indiana for three or four years, and then got married, and my wife and I were from Michigan, and we wanted to move back to Michigan before we settled down and had a family. So saw a posting on the website for Michigan Gaming Control Board, thought it would be an interesting industry to be part of as they oversee and regulate the casino, so I applied, and 23 years later, here I am. All right, so I probably just uh kind of fell into it, you know, but I'm glad I did as it's uh very unique and rewarding industry. But at the time I started I had very little gaming knowledge or exposure at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

So Okay, now 23 years later, now you're a manager in the game control world. Yep, yep. All right, that's great. All right, Steve, coming on over to you. Won't you um tell the uh public what your role is here to agency and how did you end up in gaming regulation?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Thank you for having us, Henry. I'm a CPA and I have been here since 2013, and my current role is a compliance audit manager, which entails many duties, but at the end of the day, our audits are designed to check for compliance with the Michigan Gaming Control and Revenue Act, administrative rules, and the casino's approved internal control standards. Our audits typically follow three stages. There is a planning stage where we assess the risk and map out the scope and objectives based on the risk assessment performed. During the field work stage, we execute the audit program based on sample testing, or we test the full population if we can use tools like data analytics at times. And then thirdly, there is the wrap-up phase, which ultimately produces an audit report that will have any reportable findings, also that'll go over our objective, our scope, our methodology, and at that point we also update the risk assessment for any issues identified throughout the audit. We typically have two or three audit teams working on different audits that cover different aspects of the casino operations. This would include table games, slot machines, the drop and count, which is the drop of the cash from the slot machines or the table games, and then the transfer over to the count room, where there's a lot of internal controls that the casinos have to follow at that point in order to safeguard the assets that of the cash that has been in those machines. We also audit the cage area, credit, retail sports betting, title 31, player development, and then within each of those audits, we are looking at the role that accounting plays in those gaming operations and what they're required to review. Of course, we do assist other uh areas of the agency as needed, and we also work closely with the iGaming section on certain things as well. As far as how I ended up in gaming regulation, auditing was always in my plans, but the gaming field was not exactly on the radar until I was working at a different auditing job, and a colleague there had mentioned to me that he saw a senior auditor position that was opening up at the gaming control board, and that he knew I was looking to make a career move and also location move at the time, and I was looking to move to the Detroit area. So it just seemed to make a lot of sense. I also had some prior casino experience with one of my prior auditing jobs where we did audit a casino there and we looked at the financial statements and certain aspects of their gaming operations. So I did have some exposure to the casino industry prior to coming here. And also, I do enjoy auditing career-wise, but I felt like it was the gaming industry is so interesting to learn, it has strong internal controls and rules to follow, and it was just full of different opportunities to learn from from an audit perspective.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Okay, see, so just so the public is clear, so on Jason's side of the world, him and his team are auditing the revenue, the tax revenue, to ensure that the casinos are taking the appropriate deductions and making the proper payments to the state of Michigan and the city of Detroit. On your side of the world, your team, and you ensure that the approved internal controls that the Gaming Control Board approved, you all then go in and audit against those to ensure that they're following the approved internal controls that we established.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, we're looking at the the day-to-day operations, what is currently happening on the floor. We could be looking at surveillance coverage of certain activities. So we're a little bit closer to the ground than some of the numbers that Jason's team is reviewing. We're also looking at uh historical documents. So now that we're in 2026, we'll be looking at certain activities from 2025 up to current. So we will just be kind of diving a little bit deeper into the audits when we look at the compliance side of things. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

All right, great. Um, so while we're talking we're talking about compliance audits, um for someone who's never been inside a casino back office, what are you actually looking at when you walk through those doors?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

It is certainly a massive operation with many moving parts, you know, gaming related, non-gaming related. Uh, there are certainly different departments, you know, scattered throughout the back of the house. Some of it will be, you know, a typical office environment, and some of it is obviously a lot more interesting than that, such as the cage, you know, which can be seen from the patron perspective a little bit, but there is a lot more that's going on behind the scenes there with the the bankers and all the accountability and inventory for the ins and the outs of the the cage books that they they have to maintain over there with all the aspects of the gaming operation eventually going through the cage at one point or another. In the back of the house, there's also areas where there's chips that are securely stored and reserve. Uh there could be slot machines that are waiting to be retired. There could be slot machines that are getting ready to be placed out on the gaming floor and just maybe waiting on a final approval from our gaming gaming lab with the approved software. There's also various areas where all the card and dice are securely stored. There's also, of course, the non-value roulette chips that are stored back there. So, you know, they're talking about a whole lot of behind-the-scenes activity that the public doesn't necessarily get to see, but you know, we have surveillance systems that we can monitor gaming activity on for our audits or for other type of investigations. Plus, the the count room is another, of course, highly secured area that that's where all the cash is being counted. It's being compiled, it's being eventually counted and transferred over to the main bank, like I was talking about earlier, where it's sold to the main bank, so that way it'll eventually get to accounting and then on the daily tax return for Jason's team reviews. So just to kind of get back and uh that's what we're looking at with the compliance audits is those deeper dive controls that eventually get make its way to Jason's daily tax return and what his team reviews. So, from an auditor perspective, back there, they they are reviewing the the source documents to ensure they're being completed accurately and properly to support that the gaming gaming revenue is reliable and accurate. There's also a lot of paperwork produced on a daily basis, and that's what we perform sample testing on during our audits, and then we also do have access to the casino's critical computerized gaming system so that we can run our own reports and do our own research as needed, uh, look up Patreon accounts if we have to. So that's just another example of back of house activity that takes place.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Okay, thank you. Now, Jason, um you have a background in the compliance audits as well. So, what's the biggest misconception operators have about what a complaints audit is or what the agency is looking for?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

With us being around for 25 years or so now, I think they pretty much realize what we're looking for and how we're looking for it. Um at first, when we first started, they were really on reserve and didn't want to necessarily provide information or guidance or direction, but now that we've been working with them for so long, they know what we want. We're here to monitor, we're here to regulate, we're here to oversee. They're compliance directors we work closely with, with the internal control changes and with uh our requests for audits. So we've been around the block. Uh they know we're inquiring, we're know we're monitoring. Now, some of their employees, if we're like observing the cage, they might get nervous because they're not used to us being around 100%. But at the at the compliance level and executive management level, they know we're looking. Even in accounting, they know we're gonna inquire if something doesn't look right. Uh so they kind of have that expectation. Now, if we do find something, they're gonna disagree or put forth their opinion on whether they believe they're in compliance or not. Uh, we might read it one way and they might see it another way. So we sometimes have agree to disagree, but then we have it documented in our reports on how they view that for next time, too. So um I'm not sure if that specifically answers it, but I mean we do send audit engagement letters, we do send intro control questionnaires on the uh area that we're auditing so they know which area we're focusing on, what controls we're looking at, and then we also do a planning memo that identifies the source documents that we are requesting to review and the time frame we're looking at. So if through that they might have some questions, okay, what are you looking for here? And then we'll work with them on that. But uh as far as high level, they know we're looking and we're there, we're physically there present, you know, with regulation officers, employee licensing, and audit daily.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

So Okay, great. Um Steve, when you find a compliance issue, what does what's the process? What does the process look like from identification all the way through resolution?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

It's a great question. So identification is one of the key words there. Our audit findings and compliance issues are found through the direct work of the compliance auditors and what they uncover and identify throughout the execution of the audit program, which is also, of course, based upon a risk assessment. So during the execution of that audit program, the auditors are testing either a sample of transactions, they could be doing a judgmental selection, they could be doing a random selection, they could be looking at you know different dollar values depending on what we're trying to test. But and at times we're able to look at a full population of certain processes in the casino using data analytics. So, but once we do identify that compliance issue, the auditors start having conversations with the casino and the replicable staff in order to make sure that there's no misunderstandings or you know any information that is missing, or at times there may be a compensating control that's taking place that we might need to take into consideration. So we try to get with them as soon as we possibly can to make sure that we are both on the same page and they don't have any more information that they could relay over to us. Once all the efforts are exhausted and it's indeed confirmed that we have a compliance issue, we do continue that conversation with the casino through email to make sure that our understandings are documented and accurate. The findings will then at that point be written up in an audit report, and that's also where we're going to document the recommended compliance action piece. The casinos will then at that point will also have their chance to place a response in the the audit report. And when they do that, we do ask them to make sure that they include any corrective action that they will be implementing or have already implemented to mitigate the risk of future noncompliance or any other relevant facts that they want to put on the record. And then at the end of it, it it depends on what the recommended compliance action piece is and what's agreed upon between uh executive management and the audit staff, and then at the end of it, we do follow up on the audit findings, typically all of them within a year of the audit report issuance.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Okay, great. So, Jason, revenue auditing sounds straightforward on the surface. Money in, money out. What makes it more complex than that in a casino environment?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Well, one of the first things to consider is the Detroit casinos are open 24-7. So they don't close. So our rules require them to select a 24-hour cycle that is considered their business day. So the 24-hour cycle most likely will then cover two calendar days. So for example, today's June 9th, if they started their gaming day at 3 a.m., that's going to carry over to 2 59 a.m. on the 10th. So it's real important to consider that when you're compiling the revenue, what time frame you're looking at, what their end and start days are, and then request and supporting documentation, they compile all their daily support based on gaming day, not calendar day. So you need to say, hey, I need the gaming date for June 9th, not June 10th, and have the wrong information or the wrong revenue. So that's the first thing that people have to get used to in the casino environment. And then, secondly, in addition, gaming revenue is generated through table games, electronic gaming devices, poker, and then recently retail sports betting. And so, per the rules, patrons uh cannot wager with cash. We require them to have approved items that we have approved that they can wager with. So that cash is converted to chips, tickets, electronic credits. In addition, wagers can be made with coupons or vouchers or outstanding markers or recently cashless wagering transactions. So all this is generates revenue for all these various components of wagering that have been approved by us, and therefore, all this gaming revenue is then compiled and reported on the daily tax return, which then computes the wagering tax that we want to monitor and make sure the state of Michigan receives and the city of Detroit. So there's one tax return for table games and slots that calculates the adjusted gross receipts, and then one tax return for retail sports betting that calculates qualified adjusted gross receipts that they pay those taxes on, like we mentioned at the beginning. So, on top of that, then there can be additional things that impact revenue or help calculate adjusted gross receipts. Like I kind of mentioned some coupons on vouchers earlier. A lot of the times the casinos will give them free play. Well, at the Detroit casinos, that free play is considered wagering. So you have to have a coupon or a voucher to wager, and then that's taxable. Some other forms of gaming, it's deductible. But not at the three Detroit casinos for table games and slots. Also, they allow patrons to play with free line of credits after they do their credit checks. If they do that according to the Act and Rules and the ICS, then if they can't collect on that, then they can request a write-off. If that was paid at the table and played at the table and not paid off by the patron, they can request that write-off since they paid a tax on it originally when they gambled. So that can come into play also tournaments. If they have tournaments with entries, then those entry fees collected minus the amounts they pay out in price, it would be the difference would be the revenue for that tournament. And then also sometimes counterfeit cash does get through the process. So if counterfeit is found in the count room, we assumed it was wagered with, and that's how it got in the count room. So we require that counterfeit money to be uh taxable too. So, and then on top of that, some of the casino one casino still has poker, so they do uh have poker that they offer since they're playing against the Patriots and not against the house, they take a rake, uh, which is a percentage for administrating that poker game. So various different things can uh and then as we add on technology, some of these things weren't here when we first started, and so we have to count you know compile those and fit them into the calculation of adjust gross receipts as time uh progresses.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Okay. And Jason, how do you verify that what's reported to the agency accurately reflects what's actually happening on the floor?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, so at the end of the that 24-hour cycle gaming day that I had just talked about, all the supporting documentation is sent up to the casino counting department, which they're responsible for reviewing, analyzing, comparing, reconciling, and maintaining the gaming source documents for that gaming day. Then our administrative rules require them to have various procedures in their entral control standards that they must perform to ensure gaming transactions are complete and accurate and that revenue is being properly reported. So after all that is done and they do their audits, then they file that daily tax return. So they compile that daily tax return, which computes the just gross receipts and the wagering taxes for the state of Michigan and City of Detroit. And at that point, then we request that tax return. We request all that sort of reporting documentation because our goal is we want to make sure that that those numbers, individual numbers, are accurate and valid for each number reported on that tax return. Now, some of it is deductions that they can take, like the payouts for the winnings, jackpots. Um, so we'll make sure those deductions are appropriately addressed too. So the MGCV auditors, they'll trace each number to supporting documentation, uh, such as cash counts, system generated reports, cage reports, jackpot reports, ticket reports, or other required source documents that we require them to support those numbers. And then another big thing as we review the casino accounting, they have to perform a meter to actual count reconciliation each day. So basically, what they're doing there is they're taking the metered amount from the system, slot accounting system, and comparing that to the physical cash that they counted to ensure there's no variances. If there is a variance, there's a certain threshold they have to investigate to ensure that they can reconcile it. So sometimes it's a timing difference, sometimes it's a meter issue that the slot text will go check and verify the meters are calculating correctly, but we want to make sure that whatever cash is counted is equal to that metered amount. So to ensure that they're properly reporting and then note that this taking place. So then, on additional to that, we work with the financial service section and Lansing for our gaming control board. The Lansing actually receives the wired transfer. So we get the supporting documentation, we let them know what they should receive, and then they confirm what they do receive. And then on a monthly basis, we also do that with the city of Detroit. We identify every day's amount they should have received, and then they identify what they did receive. If there is any discrepancies, we'll work with the casinos on that. But usually something with that is they just transpose the wire to the wrong place or transpose number or something basic. Uh, if there is an adjustment on a tax return that we do fine, we don't have them amend any tax returns, we just have them make the adjustment on the current day's tax return since the wire has already been sent previously.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Okay. Alright. So, guys, big picture. And I think I'll have you both answer this. If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how the industry approaches compliance, what would it be, Steve?

SPEAKER_01 27:08

I don't want to say the word change because casinos do take compliance seriously and strive for it, and they do a great job. But I would say it's sometimes we do run into areas where I would like to wave the magic wand and have them place just a little bit more urgency on fulfilling certain documentation requests or access to their gaming systems that we rely on for the audits to be completed. I know there's a lot that goes into it, and I know that they're very extremely busy, they're running a big operation, and they're constantly getting bombarded for requests, not just from audit, but all different areas of gaming and outside of gaming. So I understand some grace is needed. Again, this isn't always the case, but it does come up come up from time to time where we are receiving later incomplete documentation or not receiving system access where or when we need it, and that can place our audit timelines in a bad spot. But one thing I do want to add is that it's very important for the casinos and regulators to have a strong professional relationship as we all do have the same best interest at the end of the day, which is being in compliance and taking it serious day in and day out. We both share a benefit if we can help them out by identifying any theft or revenue misstatements. On the other hand, if they can inform us of any non-compliance issues or procedure violations, then we can work together on preventing these again in the future with strengthening any any internal control standards. And the stronger internal controls can help safeguard their assets. And on the other hand, we are open to roll waivers uh if or internal control changes that could result in cost savings or less rate red tape if appropriate to do so.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Okay, great. How about you, Jason? You can wave a magic wand. What's the one thing?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, I think I think Steve pretty much summed it up right there. He took some of my thunder on some of the topics there. But yeah, like just to re-emphasize what he said. I mean, the casino industry, they are wanting to be in compliance. Uh they know that we're here monitoring and looking at them. Uh we do try to continue to build our business rapport with them, but they do at times say, hey, does this earnsome? This is costly to us. Can you take a look at this control? Not that we'll eliminate it all completely, but we might meet them halfway and counter-offer with additional or less controls than that that we're pro they're proposing to remove. So so yeah, the hard part is we want to find that you know that good balance to work with them, but uh also still regulate them and make sure that they're fair and honest gaming for the citizens of Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Right. And sometimes some things just make sense, right? Like you said, we've been doing this for over 25 years now. So things we did back then and the technology that exists today, you know, we may not have to do. It's probably a different way or a simpler way to get the information we need or to ensure that they're in compliance. Um and they may not need such strict internal controls in certain areas due to the technology. You know. Absolutely. Correct. Okay. Um another question, what do you think most people, including regular casino goers, don't understand about how much oversight actually goes into this industry?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

See? Well, there is certainly a lot of oversight and regulation that goes into the industry in order for gaming to be fair and honest and uphold integrity. There are laws, administrative rules, and internal controls, but I don't want to bore you with the boring stuff. The board employees do have to go through background checks, casino employees have to go through background checks, and they require licenses. The casino gaming suppliers have to go through a background check process. Slot machines have to be approved, and the enforcement area will go out to check on the gaming floor to make sure that they do have approved software in them. The slot machines are also legally required to be set at certain payback percentages over the lifetime of a machine. And what is that amount? Right now, in the law, it is 80%, up to 100%, and not to go over 100% of a payback.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yeah, I don't think the public knows that. They have to pee out 80 to 100% the life of the machine. Life of the machine, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yep. That one is written in the law, so that one. We we do check those during our audits as well to make sure that the payback percentages are in those ranges and thresholds. Uh the gaming lab is constantly receiving submissions and providing you know final approval before they're hitting the gaming floor. Um, all the all the small things you see, even card shufflers, they have to be tested and approved. All of the playing card and dice, they have to have required specifications. The progressive values for slot machines and table games are tracked and monitored. And then there's all sorts of other audits that are happening at the same time. There are internal audits from the casinos, there's external audits from CPA firms, there are IRS audits, Title 31 audits, the casino accounting team is also doing daily audits. The casinos are also required to self-report certain non-compliance activities. The Sportsbook have house rules that are that must be approved before the wagering can take place on any event. And then also, we are working with the casinos to ensure that individuals on the disassociated person list are not receiving promotional emails or mailing, text messaging, or anything like that. So that is something that we're also looking at during audits to make sure that those individuals are protected from receiving any temptation. But I can assure you one thing, there is no magician in the back who is forcing slot machines into hot or cold streaks, depending on the time of day, or if you won or lost during your last couple of visits.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Okay, thank you. Well, Henry, I would even add to that, I would say even the patrons provide oversight. And they they report issues, concerns by the patron cu complaints or the MGCB tip line. So everybody's watching. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Probably one of the highest regulated industries ever. Yeah. Um, is the casino industry. Um, for anyone out there thinking about a career in gaming regulation or compliance, what would you tell them, Jason?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Well, when I first started, I didn't know what it was about, but I've realized gaming regulation is an interesting, challenging, and rewarding career. And kind of like when Steve and I hold interviews when we're trying to hire an auditor, we let them know it is rewarding and challenging, but in order to regulate, you need to know the act, the rules, and the icks, what we need to hold our standards to. Plus, we need to know the casino operations. So we need to learn how the revenue flows through the casino and how they how their internal controls work so we can regulate them to that because that's what we're auditing. So it's not an overnight switch. You it takes weeks and months, and you still learn daily because the casinos keep evolving. They're open 24-7. Technology changes. I started when there was tokens, and now there's tickets and cases wagering, and no no tokens where to be found, which is a blessing. So uh but yes, but it's a great, great industry to be in. I've enjoyed it, it's challenging, it's rewarding, and you know what? I'm just glad I fell into it. Alright, great.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

And how about you, Steve? I would say look into it if that's something that you're interested in, gaming regulation or compliance. I've been in it for 13 years now, and like Jason said, it's interesting, it's evolving, it's very fulfilling. I would highly encourage it. And please look out on for job postings and see what suits your skill sets. We need individuals with various skills and different ways of thinking to help the board be the best it can be. For being a smaller agency, we have a variety of opportunities and many people who have been here for a long time, like Jason and myself, so we're never short on institutional knowledge to help those with no gaming experience. It's a very unique industry with various laws, administrative rules, and internal control standards to follow. So be ready to learn, read a lot, be a sponge, and make the most of any opportunity that you're given.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Alright, great. And just for the listeners, um, because oftentimes none of us have come to the gaming control board with gaming experience. You know, so that's rare if we find someone with any gaming experience. Most people that come to us have absolutely zero gaming experience. So we always want to encourage um listeners to check the state website for employment with the Michigan Gaming Control Board and look for an opportunity uh that may be fitting to you. You don't have to have any experience. We're gonna train you.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

We're gonna train you on the job, we're gonna teach you about the um gaming industry here in Michigan, you know. So um so I want to thank you two. So that's a wrap on today's episode, uh Double Down Michigan. A huge thank you to Jason and Steve for pulling back the curtain on what compliance and revenue auditing really looks like, both on the casino floor and in the fast-growing world of iGaming. And we didn't talk much about iGaming because that's a whole nother area, that's a whole nother segment to itself, you know. So we want to make sure we get that the time he needs. Um, if today's conversation gave you a better picture of how Michigan's gaming industry is regulated, that's exactly the point. Be sure to follow or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you don't miss the next episode. On behalf of the Michigan Gaming Control Board, thanks for um tuning in. And remember, fair play starts with oversight. Until next time, play it smart, play responsibly, and we'll see you on the next episode. Jason and Steve, I want to thank you both for being here today.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Thank you, Henry.