Sky Accountants Podcast
A Podcast focusing on the issues that affect business owners in Australia. From the latest tax changes, to finance and developments in employment law and HR, the Sky team bring you all the latest on the most topical issues that Australian business owners need to be across.
Sky Accountants Podcast
Unpacking the ‘Secure Jobs, Better Pay’ Fair Work Act Changes
Jamie Johns (CEO) and Ashley Carmichael (CTO) talk about the changes arising from the ‘Secure Jobs, Better Pay’ Fair Work Act Changes that employers need to be aware of.
ABOUT SKY ACCOUNTANTS PODCAST:
A Podcast focusing on the issues that affect business owners in Australia.
From the latest tax changes, to finance and developments in employment law and HR, the Sky team bring you all the latest on the most topical issues that Australian business owners need to be across.
Jamie Johns 00:22
Hi everyone, it's Jamie Johns here, the CEO of Sky Accountants. Welcome to the next version or episode of our podcast today. Again, I've got with me Ash Carmichael, our Chief Technical Officer. How are you today Ash?
Ashley Carmichael 00.38
I'm very well. How are you?
Jamie Johns 00:22
Good Ash. Good to see the sun shining again. So yeah, today's episode of the Sky Accountants podcast is on the recent changes with Fair Work and from what Ash tells me, there's a fair bit going on in this space. Is that right Ash?
Ashley Carmichael 01:02
There certainly has been. They've been pretty busy with a number of changes in recent times. And you know, it really is a case that business owners need to be across what's happening, because it's pretty easy to fall foul if you're absolute.
Jamie Johns 01:26
And you said to me too Ash, like while you don't need to be an expert in this, you do need to have a surface level understanding of perhaps just the issues to be aware of. And you know, again here at Sky Accountants, that's why we've got yourself and the team for clients and anyone else to give us a call. So it is a bit of a minefield for fair work. And how long has fair work been around now Ash, just to give us a bit of context?
Ashley Carmichael 01:57
I couldn't say a bit. A long, long time now.
Jamie Johns 02:05
Yeah. Yeah, I think I recall it coming, a lot of it coming in with the Gillard government,
but I might be wrong on that. So yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 02:14
I want to say the same thing, that the memory is pretty hazy after all this time, but it's been a real fixture.
Jamie Johns 02:21
It has. It's certainly been an issue, something to be mindful of for big business of course, and you know, smaller businesses as well, so or medium sized you might say. But Ash, if you could give us a quick update on the recent activity with Fair Work, what are some of the sort of dot points that have come through recently?
Ashley Carmichael 02:46
Yeah, look, there's a few items that I wanted to have a chat about today, which you know, I think are probably the most relevant that business owners need to be across. There's actually quite a bit of changes, but we're not going to be trying to cover all of those. But so today we just wanted to have a bit of a chat about the new pay secrecy provisions.
Jamie Johns 03:10
Okay.
Ashley Carmichael 03:11
Some updates around flexible work arrangements.
Jamie Johns 03:14
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 03:15
Changes around fixed term contracts. The new paid family and domestic violence leave. And the new workplace sexual harassment laws.
Jamie Johns 03:26
So you've really got sort of five important points there that perhaps we could touch at a high level. And so we don't want to scare people, but at the same time we do have to be aware of these changes as a business owner, don't we really? I think. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 03:46
Yeah, absolutely. We do. You can't just put your head in the sand. You need to be across these things. And typically it doesn't require significant changes. It just requires awareness and tweaking of what you're doing. But if you don't know what the rules of the game are, and it's pretty hard to stay in the boundaries. So it's all about awareness.
Jamie Johns 04:12
And just on that awareness, Ash, one of the things that you've said to myself and our team and the clients that you deal with is is the Fair Work Ombudsman's website. And you could subscribe to their emails list there. Is that right?
Ashley Carmichael 04:27
Yeah, that's right. So you know, you can get online and Google Fair Work Ombudsman.
And they've got a pretty good website. There's a lot of good material about what we're talking about today, but everything in general. And you can subscribe to email alerts, which is a really good thing to do because anytime something's happening, it lands in your inbox and...
Jamie Johns 04:54
You get an update.
Ashley Carmichael 04:55
- it informs that you know, here's something that I might have to take a look into.
Jamie Johns 04:58
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's good advice. So just a reminder there, if you're listening to this, jump on the Fair Work website and we can put some details of that site in our blog on the internet here. And by all means, take up Ash's recommendation and subscribe to... subscribe to that because you will have an up to date of, you know, the changes that are coming through. But Ash, can you take us through say at a little bit deeper level, not too deep or as a high level around those five points that you said earlier? And I think the first one you mentioned was that pay secrecy. What's that all about Ash with the pay secrecy changes?
Ashley Carmichael 05:40
Yeah, look, so historically, it's been possible to have pay secrecy clauses in employment agreement. So, you know, essentially, Jamie, you're not allowed to talk about your pay and conditions with your colleagues. And so what this change is, is it's essentially outlawing that. So the changes started on the 7th of December.
Jamie Johns 06:0
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 06:10
And they create a new workplace right to share information about pay and employment conditions, right?
Jamie Johns 06:19
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 06:20
So what it means is I can ask you, "Hey Jamie..," you know, "...what's your pay and conditions?"
Jamie Johns 06:29
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 06:31
And I cannot get in trouble for doing that.
Jamie Johns 06:35
Is that right? Okay.
Ashley Carmichael 06:36
That's right. And you, if you choose to, and that's important, if you choose to, you're not required to, but if you choose to, you can tell me.
Jamie Johns 06:50
Right. And what's the, what's the protection then for the employers? Is there any obligations that they could put in the contract, for example?
Ashley Carmichael 06:59
So what they've got to do is they've got to have a look at what they do have in their contracts, what they do have in their policies and make sure that...
Jamie Johns 07:08
Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 07:09
- you know, that they're not including pay secrecy provisions moving forward.
Jamie Johns 07:15
Ahh! Not including! Haha...
Ashley Carmichael 07:18
Yeah! There's a phase out period to do it to get yourself organised, but essentially you just can't do it anymore. And look, my take on this is, you know, there's probably a bit of naivety in thinking that employees are not going to talk about their pay and that sort of thing. I think you have to assume that they will. And, you know, my approach is always like, if you've got some scenarios that you don't want people discussing, then maybe you've got some inequity within your pay structures and that sort of stuff that you need to sort out.
Jamie Johns 08:00
It's really interesting that government have taken this chant, this, or stance, I should say, because, you know, certain staff members have certain renumeration structures and bonuses, if you like. And I guess they're, what's the logic behind,
do you think, Ash, from a big picture point of view?
Ashley Carmichael 08:22
I think what they're trying to do is create an environment where there can be a bit more transparency. And I might be wrong about this, but I think it's all about sort of the stagnant wage growth and perhaps creating a condition where employees can talk to each other and then, you know, if I find out that I'm getting paid a lot less than you for the same job, then I can go and talk to my boss. I don't know really, but I don't know that a lot of businesses have pay secrecy provisions.
Jamie Johns 09:05
Provisions in there anyway.
Ashley Carmichael 09:06
I don't really see it. And they clearly, you know, they don't like employees talking, but...
Jamie Johns 09:12
I haven't seen it in my travels all the years, but I think one.
Ashley Carmichael 09:17
Yeah. For those who do have it, they just need to be mindful.
Jamie Johns 09:21
Yeah, absolutely. And just to finish on that topic, I think it's important that as a, you know, if you're a small business owner, it's pretty important to have a good relationship with your team members around their renumeration and around their career path and, you know, whether they're happy or not. It's very hard to find good people, but I think it's also important from a HR point of view to keep good people as well. So as long as you've got a good relationship with your team and you've got that transparency and that relationship and, you know, you're regularly catching up, you know, you want to counter react to any sort of, as you said, Ash, pay competitiveness, you're getting paid more than me and that type of thing. So yeah, it's just something to be mindful of. But the next topic there, Ash, was the, you mentioned earlier, was these flexible work arrangements.
Ashley Carmichael 10:21
Yeah, these have been, you know, on the scene now for a long time too. And this is where employees can request flexible work arrangements from their employers to sort of accommodate different things that are going on. And look, what this is is about expanding that a little bit to employees in a couple of additional scenarios. So, you know, what they're looking at here is the expansion is for employees or employees who have a member of their family. They're experiencing family and domestic violence. And the other one is for employees who are pregnant.
Jamie Johns 11:13
Yes. Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 11:15
And so take them, the pregnant employee, you know, what they may want to do as, you know, that pregnancy sort of wears on is they may want to change their working arrangements to sort of match their energy levels or, you know, other things that they need to get organized in their life. And so they can request that from their employer.
Jamie Johns 11:45
Yeah, it's interesting. It's almost legislating Ash that employers need to take into account these, these, I suppose, private matters that can arise in people's lives. And then saying that, you know, because of these common occurrences, let's legislate in the Fair Work that, you know, employers and employees really need to discuss these points more at length so that, you know, you know, that both parties are happy and navigating, you know, pregnancy, which is a natural event that happens. But also, you mentioned there to expect, you know, people experiencing family or domestic violence. So it's really legislating that we're aware of these matters and, and that, you know, businesses can work with employees around around these issues, do you think?
Ashley Carmichael 12:48
Yeah, absolutely. And look, my experience is that most businesses get this stuff right without Fair Work.
Jamie Johns 12:57
Without Fair Work.
Ashley Carmichael 12:58
You know, we don't, they don't necessarily need these rules to follow.
Jamie Johns 13:04
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 13:05
They apply a good common sense approach and find the right outcomes and everyone's, you know, coming with the right spirit to it, which is great. But , I think this is a good step.
Jamie Johns 13:20
A good step. Hmmm...
Ashley Carmichael 13:22
You know, creating a system or a process that needs to be followed just helps things to be done in a, you know, a consistent and fair way. And look, you know, whilst the employee may be entitled to ask for a flexible working arrangement, it doesn't mean that they get it.
Jamie Johns 13:43
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 13:44
It doesn't mean that the employer has to agree. What this is about is making sure that the employer follows the right process before they make a decision to say yes or no. And, and it's also include steps in there about how to notify the employee of the decision. Now, you know, in smaller workplaces, it's probably a bit more casual and, you know, arguably, arguably a bit of overkill. But you know, some businesses have lots of employees.
Jamie Johns 14:18
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 14:19
Yeah. You know, it's important that they can treat all of those people consistently. So,
you know, there's obligations as part of this to discuss the request and make a genuine effort to accommodate it.
Jamie Johns 14:35
Yeah. Are they some of the things that, for example, what would the employee need to do, Ash, in terms of just some of these steps here?
Ashley Carmichael 14:48
The employee needs to make the request.
Jamie Johns 14:51
The request, yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 14:53
You know, you would say, you know, ought to be in writing. So...
Jamie Johns 14:57
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 14:58
And then from there, it's about the employer following this process.
Jamie Johns 15:03
Following the process. And, yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 15:06
In a lot of instances, I would expect that an arrangement can be made that works for the business and works for the employee.
Jamie Johns 15:15
Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 15:16
Sometimes that's not going to be possible. And that's okay.
Jamie Johns 15:20
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 15:21
As long as the process is followed and the decision's been made for the right reasons.
Jamie Johns 15:27
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 15:28
Communicated in the right way.
Jamie Johns 15:30
I think some of the steps there that we're looking at will be able to get some more information at a higher level, you know, on our blog and in our newsletter as well. So, I think I definitely agree with you. It's definitely a step in the right direction, just in terms of those sort of issues with the flexible working arrangements. The next point there, Ash, was fixed term contracts. Can you go into a little bit more detail about the changes there and how, what the obligations of the employer are in regard to that?
Ashley Carmichael 16:02
Yeah. That's right. So, this, so this, the start date on this is a bit further off. It actually starts from the 6th of December 2023. So, the year this year.
Jamie Johns 16:13
Ah! Yeah., right!
Ashley Carmichael 16:14
But the reason for that is that fixed term contracts are not uncommon and businesses are going to need a bit of lead time to get themselves sorted out.
Jamie Johns 16:24
Right.
Ashley Carmichael 16:25
So, fixed term contracts are when the period of employment's a finite period. So, you know, Jamie, you're employed by Sky from 12 month period.
Jamie Johns 16:38
Period? Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 16:42
And I think from a government point of view, why this change is happening is that there is a legitimate place for those type of contracts. Historically, some businesses, not a lot, but some have overused them.
Jamie Johns 16:59
Yes, I see.
Ashley Carmichael 17:05
And so, you know, Jamie's on a fixed term contract and it rolls over every year and it has done for the last 10 years. And so, I think the government's...
Jamie Johns 17:19
So, what, again, the context of this then is then the government's not happy about that. Is that because the obligations under that contract may roll over, like you said, and never change? Is that like the bigger picture?
Ashley Carmichael 17:35
You sort of get a blurring of the lines where someone is for all intents and purposes at a full time.
Jamie Johns 17:41
I see.
Ashley Carmichael 17:42
Permanent employee.
Jamie Johns 17:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 17:45
But they're kind of missing out on some of the normal entitlements.
Jamie Johns 17:49
Entitlements, okay.
Ashley Carmichael 17:50
So, you know, say you'd been on these rolling fixed term contracts for the last 10 years and then all of a sudden the employer says, oh, we're just not going to renew it. And, you know, you don't necessarily get those same sort of protections around how, you know, a position can be made redundant and that sort of thing. So, but it's also, I think, you know, issues around providing people a bit of certainty.
Jamie Johns 18:25
What should employers do in this regard, Ash, leading up to the December 23, do you think?
Ashley Carmichael 18:34
So essentially what's happening is they're saying that you can continue to have fixed term contracts, but they can't be for more than two years.
Jamie Johns 18:44
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 18:48
So, you know, you can have them. You just can't have them rolling on for extended periods of time.
Jamie Johns 19:00
Indefinitely. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 19:02
And look, there's stuff in there that gets a bit technical, which is about people trying to, you know, play funny games and, you know, get around the rules. But...
Jamie Johns 19:12
I'll throw you in the deep end here, Ash. Is there any particular industries that come to mind these fixed term contracts that you've seen are quite, you know, relevant or maybe there isn't. But... ah...
Ashley Carmichael 19:30
Look, I don't, I'm not aware of any particular industry, but there's certainly out there. I can think of my partner who many years ago now was working at a business that shall remain famous, but had like almost everyone was on these fixed term contracts. But a lot of them had been there for years and years.
Jamie Johns 19:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 19:59
And look, probably in the day to day, it didn't make much of a difference. But there were some instances that where it did produce outcomes that were not great.
Jamie Johns 20:11
Yeah. I think the whole point of this is, as you said earlier, making sure that, you know, employees are getting their fair entitlements. And it's not, you know, it's more focused on the substance of the relationship over, you know, the form of the document. Hahaha...
Ashley Carmichael 20:31
Yeah. And look, so what businesses are going to need to do ahead of are going to have to work out which fixed term contracts that are currently in play that are going to need to be retired, right?
Jamie Johns 20:47
Yeah, yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 20:48
People on to a permanent contract.
Jamie Johns 20:50
Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 20:52
So they're going to have to do that. And they're going to have to have a think about what they're going to do moving forwards. As I said, they can continue to use these fixed term contracts. There'll actually be an information statement. So we haven't seen it yet. But it sounds like it's going to be a bit like the Fair Work information statement if you are going to get a new employees.
Jamie Johns 21:15
Yeah! Yes! Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 21:17
Just gives those employees a bit of information about, you know, their rights, et cetera. So if you know to use them, you'll have to attach one of these. Yeah. You know, fundamentally, businesses are going to have to work out whether or not they continue to use those, even with this limitation in play.
Jamie Johns 21:36
Yes!
Ashley Carmichael 21:37
You know, I can think of lots of instances where that would be appropriate.
Jamie Johns 21:42
Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 21:43
You know, you're bringing someone into work on a project, for example.
Jamie Johns 21:47
Uh! Hmmm... I understand, understand. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 21:51
And they're going to need to work out how are we going to put some systems in place to manage it as well.
Jamie Johns 22:01
Moving forward.
Ashley Carmichael 22:02
You know, I foresee that it could be easy to forget that Billy Vlogs is coming up to ease...
Jamie Johns 22:09
That's right. So they'll need a...
Ashley Carmichael 22:11
--two years. Yeah.
Jamie Johns 22:12
If they got those fixed term contracts here, make sure you get them out of review them. But the next topic there, Ash, that you mentioned earlier was new paid family and domestic violence leave. And when was that coming in, Ash?
Ashley Carmichael 22:31
So it's coming in into tranches. So the first tranche is already in. So for larger businesses, so those that are not small business employers, which is essentially small businesses, employers are those up to 15 employees.
Jamie Johns 22:52
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 22:53
So for 15 plus employees, these rules are in. And then for the small business employers, it's going to be from the 1st of August this year.
Jamie Johns 23:03
Yeah. Okay.
Ashley Carmichael 23:05
And so we've always, well, maybe not always, but we've had family and domestic violence leave, but it's not been paid leave. And so this is the difference.
Jamie Johns 23:16
It's paid leave leave. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 23:20
And so, employees and not all employees are going to get it as I understand it. Casuals will not. But, hard timers and full timers will get 10 days per annum.
Jamie Johns 23:33
Okay.
Ashley Carmichael 23:36
And a minor crew...
Jamie Johns 23:38
It does... It resets every year. Is that right? Okay.
Ashley Carmichael 23:42
Yeah, that's right. And it's not, you know, it's safe with you annually, for example, at a cruise. And so you might start a new job and you haven't accrued enough to take any time off for the, you know, the first month or so or two. Whereas this, you know, you might start a new job. And if something happens, you'll be entitled to it straight away.
Jamie Johns 24:03
And there'll have to be some evidence requirements around this leave and that type of thing too.
Ashley Carmichael 24:08
Oh, look, there is. And it's actually really quite complicated because as you, I'm sure you can imagine, it's a fairly tricky area to deal with.
Jamie Johns 24:18
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 24:19
You know, there's sort of privacy issues. There's issues around sort of, you know, the difficult state of the person that's experiencing this issue. So, you know, this is, this stuff is probably what I would say is not for the faint hearted.
Jamie Johns 24:38
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 24:39
You know, I hope a lot of businesses don't have to deal with it. But it is a problem. You know, we know that you just have to look at the news and see all this.
Jamie Johns 24:48
As I was just going to say, there's a lot of statistics in it. And, you know, this has been a media a lot as well. And so, you know, anyone suffering domestic violence, it's obviously a step in the right direction to, to really support, help those people, I think. So, yeah, yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 25:11
It's a, like I said, it's a massive issue. And you know, despite efforts, it doesn't seem to be getting any better.
Jamie Johns 25:21
Better. Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 25:22
And so, you know, the government's trying to be on the on the front foot there.
Jamie Johns 25:27
And it mentions a number there too, Ash. It's probably important to shout out there. Is it that 1-800-RESPECT for people?
Ashley Carmichael 25:38
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so, so from our point of view, there's an element about knowing what are my obligations, you know, my Fair Work obligations. What do I have to pay? How do I need to manage the process? What needs to go on a pay slip? All that kind of business, right?
Jamie Johns 25:58
Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 25:59
But there's a bigger question, which is, you know, as an employer, are you ready to deal with that sort of situation when it arises? Like, you know, do you know how to handle that in a way that's going to actually help that employer?
Jamie Johns 26:17
The situation and employee? Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 26:22
You know, because, you know, we need these people to be able to access the help and support that they need.
Jamie Johns 26:28
That they need.
Ashley Carmichael 26:29
You know, that's just at a basic human level. But from a business level, you know.
Jamie Johns 26:37
You've got to be on a navigator as well.
Ashley Carmichael 26:39
Yeah, we need to make sure that we're looking after our people. And so, you know, that's a support resource that 1-800-RESPECT. And there's lots of them out there. But it's, you know, you'd really sort of encourage people to go and at least have a bit of a look at it at some of those resources.
Jamie Johns 27:04
And there's probably a website I would suggest that we can put on the podcast as well. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 27:10
Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a website. And, you know, it's about, you know, as individuals and employers and managers and business owners, you know, at some point, we may come into contact with this issue and we should be ready to deal with it in a constructive way.
Jamie Johns 27:30
Exactly. Yeah. And just, you know, part of this podcast series is all these topics. It's just you may not know all the answers, but at least you can be aware of where to turn to, I think. And that's what we're doing this for. So, yeah, thanks for that one, Ash. The last sort of topic there we just wanted to touch on was the new workplace sexual harassment laws. And, you know, I remember a few years ago now bullying legislation, a few different, you know, practical cases and negative things that happened in the workplace over the years. The government had a massive push on bullying in the workplace. And what's this bringing additional to it now, Ash? It mentions the Victorian Equal Opportunities Act and that type of thing. Where's the changes happening here?
Ashley Carmichael 28:25
Yes. And look, I'm sure there's lots of employment lawyers out there that know all their stuff 100 times better than we do. But, you know, so Fair Work of getting, or there's new legislation to deal with sexual harassment in the workforce, right?
Jamie Johns 28:45
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 28:46
But we know that, you know, we've had laws that deal with sexual harassment prior to now. This is not a new thing.
Jamie Johns 28:56
That's right.
Ashley Carmichael 28:57
In Victoria, for example, it is, you know, dealt with under the Equal Opportunity Act.
Jamie Johns 29:04
Right.
Ashley Carmichael 29:07
But from the 6th of March, there's this additional piece, so 6th of March, just go on this additional piece that's added into the Fair Work Act that prohibits sexual harassment in the workforce.
Jamie Johns 29:20
I see.
Ashley Carmichael 29:22
Which is important, because as I understand it, you know, something like 80% plus of instances of sexual harassment are in the workplace.
Jamie Johns 29:36
Yeah!. Hehehe... Which makes you wonder why maybe Fair Work hasn't had this legislation there earlier. But I guess they're catching up. They're sort of catching up with the Equal Opportunity Act. Well, that's the Victorian one at least. But Fair Work is federal too, isn't it?
Ashley Carmichael 29:52
That's right!
Jamie Johns 29:53
Like it's Australia-wide.
Ashley Carmichael 29:54
It doesn't, you know, there's going to be lots of little differences between how each of the different states deal with this. This puts a sort of a blanket national.
Jamie Johns 30:06
A national? Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 30:08
And all it does is strengthen and expand what we've already got, which is interesting.
Jamie Johns 30:15
Yeah. And so I guess what comes to mind there, Ash, is with these sexual harassment laws being included in the Fair Work, Fair Work will probably have to take some calls on it now and be able to try and resolve these matters. There's things here, you've got like, you know, the conciliation process, mediation, the different steps that, you know, if you come across this in your own workplace and it, and like you just never know with some of these things.
Ashley Carmichael 30:47
So the fundamental issue that they want or thing that they want is for employers to stamp it out in their workplace, to prevent it happening. And if it does happen, to deal with it swiftly and fully, right.?
Jamie Johns 31:07
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 31:09
And so there's a bit of a stick here that they're using to make sure that this happens, which hasn't existed before, we're not so clearly anyway, which is that employers can be liable unless they can prove that they took all reasonable steps to prevent that sexual harassment. Right?
Jamie Johns 31:35
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 31:36
And so that places a pretty significant burden on employers to make sure that they've got the right policy training culture, all that sort of stuff to prevent this stuff happening in the first place, right, which is the, you know, the ideal, you know, it shouldn't happen.
Jamie Johns 31:55
It reminds me of those, the bullying legislation too, Ash, where, you know, employers and businesses need to be aware that if they know this is going on, I guess, and they're not doing anything about it, that can be a big problem.
Ashley Carmichael 32:12
Massive problem. And what this is saying is that you can't just turn a blind eye. You can't pay pay lip service to this stuff anymore. You've got to get serious. And I think, again, you know, most businesses are really good on this stuff. But, you know, there's enough out there and enough instances where it still continues to be a problem.
Jamie Johns 32:37
Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 32:39
And so, you know, the extension of that is the Fair Work Commission is now has powers to take complaints and to deal with them, as you said, through, you know, initially through a conciliation or a mediation. And I think they can make recommendations too. And there's a next step where, you know, that doesn't work. That, you know, there can be an arbitration and the commission can make orders about things like compensation and...
Jamie Johns 33:16
Lots of wages and all that sort of thing.
Ashley Carmichael 33:19
And other remedies that they suit the situation.
Jamie Johns 33:25
So it's a lot to unpack all these changes in this episode. What's the couple of sort of let's give us a couple of key takeaways, Ash? What should small business owners do? Or, you know, in this regard, do you think? What's some practical steps that they can take?
Ashley Carmichael 33:45
Look, I think, you know, going back to what we spoke about earlier on, the first thing I would always recommend is get to the Fair Work Ombudsman website. Have a look at the resources, sign up for those email alerts. You want to be getting the news of what's happening. Just push to use. So you're across the issues. But, you know, the five items we've discussed today, there's you know, there's real elements of that that employers need to deal with. It's not just one of those things like off that scenario comes up, I worry about it then.
Jamie Johns 34:26
Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 34:28
There's real issues there. And so people need to take the time to do a bit of research and get up to spend.
Jamie Johns 34:35
Yeah! It's sort of multifaceted, if you like. I think there's the human resource or HR, the personal side to it in dealing with it. Then there's the commercial aspect around compensation and wages and that type of thing. And nearly each one of those topics covers that just in your own business. And then there's also probably a legal, as you said earlier, there's like a legal side to it as well. So you need to be put in touch with the right advisors potentially depending on the situation. Yeah!
Ashley Carmichael 35:12
Well, that's right. And you know, what we usually say to our clients is if you need help with this stuff, reach out to us. We're a good first port of call.
Jamie Johns 35:24
I think so. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 35:26
We have a pretty good understanding of this stuff. And we can help them...
Jamie Johns 35:33
Navigate it?
Ashley Carmichael 35:35
Yeah, navigate it. But we're not employment lawyers. We're not HR experts. We're accountants. And there's a limit to what we can do. We're not about trying to be something we're not.
Jamie Johns 35:48
Yes.
Ashley Carmichael 35:49
But what we do have is we have the contacts. These are across our client base. We come across a lot of these issues.
Jamie Johns 35:58
That's right. We have the contacts, the network. Yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 36:02
And we can put people in touch with the right people to get the help that they need.
Jamie Johns 36:08
Exactly. Yeah. Now, I think it's important that you don't look at this as all just being too hard and sort of put your head in the sand. You know, first part of a call is to, you know, contact our office, speak to your client manager, you know, and we've got yourself here, Ash, to help our team and all our clients as well. So yeah.
Ashley Carmichael 36:34
Yeah. My sort of final word on all of this is that being a good employer, being compliant, you know, it's a good business.
Jamie Johns 36:50
It makes good business sense.
Ashley Carmichael 36:52
It makes good business. You're not exposing yourself to penalties. You're not exposing yourself to reputational damage. You're going to be improving your workplace culture, which improves your productivity and your profitability and all that. It's just good business.
Jamie Johns 37:08
Yeah. That's a good note to end on. It just makes good common sense to, if you see any of these points come up and you think that they need investigating, reach out, and there's a whole lot of good reasons why you should get on top of it and get our support and we can put you into the contact with any one of the professionals that can help you. So thanks for today Ash. There's always something changing. Isn't there in business? It never ceases to amaze me the changes that we need to keep up with. So jump on our website skyaccountants.com.au, and you can navigate to the blog section. This is on a podcast as well. You'll find it on Spotify and the different media, social media outlets that you can jump on and have a look at this podcast. So thanks for today, Ash.
Ashley Carmichael 38:09
Thank you. It's always good to have a chat.
Jamie Johns 38:12
Yep and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.