Hello, thanks for being here, our first female guest on the Mood Podcast.
Mel:If your passion becomes your job, you have to be careful, because you burn on And if you lose your creativity, that's the worst. that could happen. Buying a preset is a shortcut and you won't take away anything from it if you actually want to learn what it's about.
Matt:Do you think you will change your kind of production according to where you think AI is going to go?
Mel:I honestly, I'm not, I'm really not scared. I think it will make everything a lot easier.
Matt:What is the crazy big idea you would try if you knew you could fail. Today I spoke with Mel Hager. Mel is a German-born photographer and videographer. She kindly gave me a few hours of her time, as we sat down here in the studio to discuss all things photography specific to her trade and her craft. It was interesting to hear how she started. Most importantly, how she formulates her vision when she picks up a camera and what she wants to see in the future in terms of giving back and utilizing her skills to impact the world in certain areas.
Matt:This was a really refreshing discussion for me. I hope you find it refreshing too. Please enjoy it. Let me know what you think. If you'd like to see more guests like Mel and increase the exposure of this podcast so we can attract more and more bigger photographers and creators out there to come to the studio or for me to go to them, please subscribe, please help us out, please like the channel and hopefully I can bring you and continue to bring you some of the best photographers and videographers that this world has to offer.
Matt:Hello, thanks for being here, our first female guest on the Mood podcast.
Mel:Honoured Pleasure be here .
Matt:The honour is ours. I thought I'd kick off with a question which will hopefully give you a bit of an opportunity to introduce yourself anyway. So, the question being what do you do and why do you do it?
Mel:Okay. Well, so my name is Mel and I'm originally from Germany. I'm a videographer and photographer and I have a media production based here in Indonesia. Well, why am I doing what I'm doing? I guess, honestly, i've always been drawn to creative visuals. I've always wanted to take pictures, record videos since I can think, and it has become a passion and I made it a job just recently, i think three years ago, yeah.
Matt:So what is the difference in what you do between the passion side and the job side? Do they merge well?
Mel:They merge well. I mean, it takes some time up until you gain some skills on the business side of things. A passion is where your interest is laying and then you have to educate yourself, you have to go through some business situations and gain skills. So it's working out really well and I love the setting here. It's different than Germany. I think I would have never tried to do that in Germany just because I can work in nature here. There's so much more. Yeah, the resources are insane.
Matt:So you talked about educating yourself, and that's a huge part. With everything, i think It's becoming easier, i guess, to educate yourself in the creative world, especially photography, with self-learning courses So much out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:How long have you been doing it up to this point and how did you educate yourself? What was your education process?
Mel:Well, i studied media studies in university, which was split into audiovisual media and digital media, so that means that we were learning everything about media productions, about movies, about series, about TV channel productions And, on the other hand, also coding games A bit of a different story.
Matt:Coding games.
Mel:Yeah, so sculpting objects and scripting and putting it together as a game material, but I always stick to the audiovisual media. That was what I wanted to do. I wanted to try to get into the film industry, realized real quick that I don't want to be one person on a big set. That was not something I wanted to pursue.
Mel:Okay, and then I did my studies and ended up at a big magazine in Berlin where I kind of got a job real quick. It was just an internship and they needed someone to do all of their visuals for their social media And it's weekly magazines. So they come up with like 125 pages every week And I helped them also producing it and then converting it into material for advertisement online. So I started editing heaps and learned that myself keyframing, really like, made videos out of graphics and created ads out of it, but never really again took pictures myself or recorded videos nothing like that And started traveling because I did that as a freelancer. So right after I finished my studies, i already had this freelancing job And I thought I would just go traveling for maybe four months and then come back. But yeah, life happened and I am still in Indonesia four years late.
Matt:Four years, all of that time in Bali.
Mel:No, i went to France first.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Mel:I always worked in the summer there in a surf camp And then I went to Portugal, then went to Sri Lanka and then came to Bali and the pandemic happened.
Matt:So yeah.
Mel:I got stuck here.
Matt:You got stuck here, luckily. Yeah, i was going to say blessing disguise.
Mel:So much better than Germany for sure.
Matt:You just mentioned surfing there, which obviously is not a thing in Germany. It's just land. Yeah, wait.
Mel:Well, you could, but I don't think it's pleasurable. Is Germany land? Not a lot Wow.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no. We do have. You do have Hamburg at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, but it's not exactly.
Matt:So I'm tired, oh, oh.
Speaker 1:I was.
Matt:Um, where did surfing come in? You know you've tried it at some point and loved it, and then you correct me if I'm wrong you kind of married your photography videography skills with surfing. Surfing came first.
Mel:Surfing came first. But I got to say I got inspired by that company a lot, that I worked for it because they always had a media team in the location in France. So they've been already, you know, producing really beautiful visuals. And at that point I didn't take a lot pictures myself, i just saw it, but it always got stuck in my mind. And the weirdest thing happened during COVID. I just opened my company here. You know you need your equipment. It's quite expensive. Out of nowhere I got this water housing that I could use because a friend of my boyfriend he left it here, oh nice, and he couldn't use it.
Mel:And he was like, yeah, guys, just like, pick my stuff up, send me this over, but you can keep the water housing if you want and just use it in the meanwhile. Basically, i was like, oh my God, is this actually happening? Like I have to take this opportunity now. And it was this eye collide water housing with this dome. It has so much buoyancy It's ridiculous. It's not made for surf photography, by the way, so I went, with great risks, pedaling out and getting completely scrambled by big waves.
Matt:Made for diving, I guess. Yeah, it's just made for diving.
Mel:Yeah, but it was just so fun. It's like, oh my God, this is definitely what I want to do And I went out with friends and just started shooting heaps More lifestyle. In the beginning, not too much surfing, So just with a board and you know, very calm water, you can get amazing shots in all the water, good sunsets. But later on I was like, okay, i actually, you know, i want to swim out and capture the real stuff there And yeah, And talk to us about the challenges of you know surfing and capturing.
Matt:You know great content, whether it be stills or motion. What is the? you know the biggest difficulties, certainly when you're learning with that style.
Mel:Well, there's a lot actually.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:Yeah, I think. First of all, the technical part of it. You have a water housing in a box and you're in a tropical area. So what happens is you shoot on high plus and your camera overheats within minutes. It's ridiculous. We went to the MENTAWISE last year and I didn't even make it to the lineup yet And my camera overheated. It was like, right, fantastic, I'm gonna pedal back to the boat now.
Matt:What camera was it?
Mel:Sony S7-3.
Matt:So yeah, Built for video.
Mel:Yeah, yeah, i also record video on water. But yeah, it's, you'll learn, you know, to not to keep your camera housing in the sun when you are heading somewhere. You have to. You know, some people spit on the dome the night before, so you don't have the droplets on it.
Matt:Super annoying, that's probably the most annoying part about it Half shots.
Mel:I threw away so much incredible footage because I wasn't focused because of one droplet.
Matt:I've been there. Oh my God, oh my.
Mel:God. So you've been showing, you've been showing yourself. Well, i excuse that a lot. So I've done a lot of underwater photography, yeah, and I've done any self photography because I can't.
Matt:It's a but um, yeah, i feel I it's a steep learning curve and um you know, being comfortable with a camera initially like knowing your camera inside out is a great start, but still when you get it in the water boy and see whatever housing you have, droplets just hold, just holding the thing being able to just function with the, the menu and just everything, especially manual, like it's a different beast.
Mel:Um, but yeah that.
Matt:I've I've thrown away a lot of good, good folk. Well, they could have been good photos if they weren't focused on all the bloody droplets.
Mel:Yeah, it's crazy now, but yeah meant to wise.
Matt:That was good. I went there. I didn't go to surf, but I saw loads of people who go to surf. That's obviously kind of the mecca of Indonesia when it comes to surfing.
Mel:Yeah, it's incredible There are so many good waves. Yeah, it's, it's very exposed to very good swell and you know, the islands are located that way that no matter where the swell is coming from, from what direction, you will always have waves. Okay, and the way they're breaking is just ridiculous. I've never seen it's mechanical waves. You there's nothing better for surf photography than probably the mental wise, because it's a point break. You know where you can sit And even if there's a rokes that coming in which is much bigger than all of the other waves and it's really like destroying you, you know afterwards you're going to be in the channel, which is the area next to the wave. You will always be safe there because the water is much deeper there. Waves are not breaking there.
Matt:So is that just sharp reef drop offs And that's why there's mechanical waves? Yeah, okay.
Mel:Yeah, very sharp Really, and it's also very shallow, so that's why you can't really go surf there with you, don't know how to. But yeah, it's just also nature. They're so incredible. Wow, yeah, can't wait.
Matt:So how much of that personal type of photography and videography do you do And how much of it is you know, for your production company?
Mel:At the moment, I'd say 99% for my production company and maybe 1% for myself. It's great. Actually, tomorrow we're heading on a little trip and I'll be able to just shoot for myself a little bit again, also in water, so I'm really looking forward to it. I learned the past month that it's so important to keep the balance. If your passion becomes your job, you have to be careful, because you burn out And if you lose your creativity, that's the worst. That can happen.
Matt:Yeah, give me some examples. I mean, you've been doing this for long enough, so you've had you must have had some periods where you got burnt out.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:And what does that feel like, you know, for people watching?
Mel:Well, i mean, i'm pretty German, so I always want to do my work good and great. I mean, that's a good trade, i reckon. But you know, you don't really want to use your camera anymore After a while. I get anxiety just looking at it. It is not at the moment, but there was a period. It was luckily just a short period, but I've just done it for money. And then I realized I want to do work that actually matters to me. I want to do projects that are fun for me and us, our company, like our company, but my company and my people. So, yeah, it's also important because you want to push yourself towards a direction where you want to go, and not just any direction. So I think that's just a normal moment of everyone's creative career to realize, hey, i don't need to do everything. I really have to dedicate myself to something that I want to do, and as soon as you do that, everything changes. It's crazy.
Matt:Do you think some of that underlying drive comes from the fact you're female? in a kind of male dominated industry. Well, I don't know, But on the outset it seems like there are more males in the photography videography world than there are females.
Mel:Maybe in the photography world? No, no, maybe in the videography world there's more males and females. I do think, especially on this island, there's a lot of amazing female talent on the camera. It's insane.
Matt:I agree It's. some of my favorite artists here are females. Get them on podcasts watch out for your list of people.
Mel:I find that actually without.
Matt:Yeah, please, i'll take you up on that without stereotyping at all, but I find the more female artists I interact with, their creativity is a level above the general man. Whether that's a scientific fact or it's just me guessing.
Matt:I don't know, but that's my experience And so for me, where creativity sometimes comes easily, other times it can be just having to force it or having to kind of deliberately go about trying to get that creative spark. Having those inspirations is a huge part of that, and I found that, if you look to the top 20 people that I get inspired by over half of them are females, for sure. What about you? Where do you get inspiration from?
Mel:Well, like everyone else, i guess the internet.
Matt:Instagram.
Mel:No, obviously, i honestly try to keep my head out of it a little bit because it becomes this process of endless replica. I don't want to do that And I think you know we are living on such an incredible island. We have so much beautiful culture around us, nature, so many activities You don't even need it. You just need to go out there. You have probably the same thing. You go out there and you see pictures. Like you drive through a back road in land and you see pictures everywhere. It's ridiculous And the moment I arrived here, i had FOMO Every time I left the house and I didn't have my camera with me.
Mel:I was like Oh my God, did you just see that I didn't capture it? We need to go back to this place, but it doesn't make sense. The moment is gone And it's happening all the time. You have also so many beautiful and also creative people here.
Mel:If you want to create something, you will always find someone who's keen to help you to join your team. There's no one that is just looking at you. It's like you want my help for free. No, you will find people that will be on the same page, for sure, and that is one very special thing about Bali and Indonesia in general It's a very nourishing soil for creatives.
Matt:That's a great phrase. Yeah, totally agree. That's the biggest plus, i guess, of living here, and if you're in that industry, the talent around you, whether they're in your immediate circle or not, is yeah, it's crazy.
Mel:It just hits a world.
Matt:But that can for me and not being a negative Nancy, but for me that can also give me more phomo, right? So those guys are doing that and those guys are doing that I need to get out.
Speaker 1:I need to get out.
Matt:But if you think about that as a drive and part of a motivating factor it would be very powerful.
Mel:Yeah, absolutely Yeah, it's very cool.
Matt:So tell us about your production company. If you were to give us an elevator pitch, how would you describe it and give it a little plug?
Mel:Well, so we produce landscape visuals, we produce product pictures, fashion visuals, really like pictures and videos about pretty much anything in the setting of Indonesia and Bali. At the moment, we've been working a lot with hospitality, especially restrooms around the area, and now we're pulling back a little bit from that and going more towards product and fashion again, which is super fun because you get to work with brands from all over the world And every project is different, and I really love that.
Matt:And what is it that keeps you going back for more? Because you talked earlier about only now you know, to avoid burnout, make sure you're kind of doing the jobs you really want to do.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:Is that part of the pitching process? You know, do you turn many people away? How do you have that clarity of okay, this is in our wheelhouse, this is for us, this isn't.
Mel:I mean, you learn how to filter, I guess. I guess I have more reach outs than pictures at the moment.
Matt:Okay, as in. They reach out to you.
Mel:Yeah, so yeah to us And we can just see what we can do and whatnot. We have a really cool base like a family of clients that is always coming back as retainers, so we don't necessarily need to take new people in and new brands, but yeah, it's been a really cool journey. I hope to get to produce more abroad as well in the future. That will be my goal.
Mel:Because you still like travel, yeah, of course, Yeah, I haven't actually traveled too much my life. Like that was the first time I actually started traveling four years ago and then I got stuck in Indonesia. So there's so much more to explore from Fintu, new York ones and obviously all around Europe, but I haven't really seen much about Asia, and there's so much like I really want to go to Japan and. Hong Kong also, like you guys, have been living there for nine years. That's incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:But what do you miss about that Now living?
Matt:here Everything actually. But, not in a fee. My wife will probably answer this bit differently because she's a bit more emotionally attached to the place, but every part of our life there was fantastic Work, the work side and the lifestyle. It's an inexpensive place to live but usually the salaries will compensate for that. So you generally get a higher salary because it's just a high cost of living. It had everything, it has everything. Unfortunately, it got to a point where COVID it didn't ruin the city, it damaged it.
Matt:And so that has permanent damage with the culture there, with the perception of the interaction with the outside world. Less business there. Now every business that thinks about going back to Hong Kong to maybe set up again is way more cautious with that tourists more cautious. The government are handing out free tickets, trying to get people in because everyone's worried.
Matt:Like well, if there's another COVID we get stuck there, or you know, how do we know if it's going to be secure or not, how much influence from the mainland, et cetera. So there's quite a lot of geopolitics that went on during COVID and they handled it, in my opinion, extremely badly. And we Finn. I suffered probably the worst because I was traveling a lot, with work a lot And I was in so many quarantines in hotel rooms and government isolations that it just became untenable in the end.
Matt:So, yeah, we thought it was an opportunity to move and come here and play. some wanted to come for a while. But yeah, we, to answer your question, we miss we still have some really amazing friends there that we miss. We miss our old life because we didn't really think about moving. It wasn't kind of deliberate, it wasn't all from us. It's kind of Hong Kong force that decision upon us almost.
Matt:So, which was good, because we didn't leave hating it. We left with a heavy heart. Yeah, it's a great, so fantastic city And whenever you can get to go, you'll absolutely love it.
Mel:Well, maybe one day you get to enjoy it 50-50. Yeah, never know.
Matt:Yeah, never know. Yeah would like to. I mean, i mean, there's, yeah, go face. No surfing there though, but there's beautiful, beautiful landscapes and something people don't know about Hong Kong. They they see as a cityscape And actually that's probably less than 10% Hong Kong. I mean it's made up of 238 islands And a lot of those islands are just beautiful, Okay Incredible beaches, credible hikes, beautiful wildlife, beautiful landscapes. So yeah, if you, if and when you do go, make sure you head out to those those parts and don't just stay in the city.
Mel:Selling it, for sure, yeah.
Matt:Tell me a little bit about business skills. I'm always so interested in this And I think people watching and listening always kind of want to know how did you you as in one whoever's on the on the show how did, how did you make it to where you are today in terms of the business side of it.
Matt:Obviously like you have to be good at what you do or have some element of quality to what you do, But so much of it is how you market yourself, how you present yourself, the pricing strategy, or you know, avoiding burnout, choosing the right client, et cetera, et cetera. How do you and your company, or how have you learned those skills And can you give us maybe one or two of your biggest lessons?
Mel:Troll and error. Well, yeah, i mean, you don't wake up one day And you've got it all sorted. You need all of these experiences. You need to fall, you need to stand up, you need to fall, you need to stand up. And you won't have these dream clients straight away. They will come, but they're just not there straight away. You might have one or two, but yeah, you just have to do the work. Just do the work. Honestly, like this is probably the most drumming thing I've said tonight.
Matt:You work hard yeah.
Mel:Now like it all comes naturally. You know, You get to know people on a business level. You might know clients from before you become, or you interact on a business level together and you see changes. You see what is required, how you can actually solve problems, also for people Like you're not only selling visuals. In my case, someone needs something. They don't only want pictures. There's something behind it. They want to advertise a launch. They want to push a product.
Mel:So you have to actually listen And I think this was the greatest lesson so far Whenever you work with new clients, actually listen. Even the same clients again, strategies might change. You never just sell visuals. You have to understand what they want And every project is a new project And if you handle it that way, you will do a great job. But yeah.
Matt:Empathy, empathy Listening.
Mel:Understand it Yeah.
Mel:Really spend the time and do the pre-production And I see that a lot. I see other people going shooting Don't even preparing their shoots. It's like I'm just going to do the same that I did the last time, but it's not the same thing, like, are you sure that that's what they want? Yeah, it's just paid that, it's just paid this. It's like, yeah, but you just started. It doesn't matter what someone pays. If you start out and you actually want to make a career out of it, put the energy in it, think and create the visuals a business need.
Matt:Yeah, With still a cohesiveness to your work, Like I mean, I know it's I hear what you're saying.
Mel:I listen to what you're saying.
Matt:But that also sounds like you'll kind of do whatever the client wants. No, but you don't mean that, do you?
Mel:No, because otherwise they wouldn't reach out to me.
Matt:Yeah, true.
Mel:Otherwise they know my style And obviously I make sure within the first brief, within the first meeting, that I don't produce out of that box, because this is what I want to create And this is what I can create in a high quality. Whatever else you want, i could do it, but I don't want to, you know. So people come towards me because they have a product that really fits to what I've produced in the past And they liked it, and then I can see what else, but more individually, i can do for them.
Matt:OK, so yes, and what is that box that defines you and your core beliefs? How would you describe?
Mel:I think in general we do have. It depends on the category, because obviously we produce for hospitality, real estate, we also produce for product and for fashion. But it all has the same dreamy vibe And it's also not just the picture We always look to. You know, create a little bit of a film vibe. We always have a little bit of an analogue vibe on it. That's just what we love And it's working out very well. So yeah, did you?
Matt:learn film photography at all.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:Yeah, do you still shoot it?
Mel:I don't shoot film at all anymore. Yeah, so my dad was a film photographer, oh, cool. So I've learned it from him. It was just a side hustle, But he yeah, he was a skydive photographer And he had his analogue camera on his helmet.
Matt:Wow, yeah, like a big, like camcorder style Yeah.
Mel:Yeah, massive, it was not video, it was photo.
Matt:Oh, right, ok OK.
Mel:So he like bit the shutter and had a pinnacle on the side so he could see where the camera is pointing and stuff. So it's madness, they've just built that, so just a GoPro mount and that's it. They actually welded it to the helmet and, yeah, shunned out of it. It was really cool. So I grew up with a lot of film pictures that my dad always showed me and also used his camera, but I usually shoot with my Sony photo and video just because I want to be able to edit it after the way I want to. Yeah.
Matt:Do you do all your editing? Yeah, I do. Do you enjoy?
Mel:it. I love it.
Matt:Do you?
Mel:I love editing. That's the main part and that's why I also love to work with Da Vinci because it's just so nice, man, like the whole UI. The whole UX is so easy, it's so intuitive and the whole color grading is so fun. It's so different from Premiere Pro.
Matt:I find that's the editing. So I mean, i don't really edit video, but I enjoy the process with photography because I feel like that's just another, that's just the next chapter of your creativity. I love like being creative in the editing process. I feel like that's all in my control. Where's your own locations? Like there's stuff that's out of your control and sometimes you just got to get what you can get, even if you have a vision, you have an idea, you've got everything planned and then maybe something happens, or just the weather or something. Or you're trying to fit in with videographers on a shoot with a client and it's like you've got 30 minutes bang, bang, bang. When you get to the edit, it's like OK, as long as you've got a good base to work from. I find that's a really nice. I enjoy that. I enjoy photography editing, i think because I just don't know enough about the video.
Matt:I just like it's just so many moving parts and I can't see all of it at once. And it's just moving that to this.
Mel:It's overwhelming in the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
Matt:Yeah, luckily I don't edit this. I was going to talk to you about social media because we mentioned it before. Is that a big part of your marketing? in terms of you know, i imagine a lot of your, the people that the clients that reach out to you just originally from word of mouth and repeat work. How much time do you put into social media?
Mel:And I wish I could put more time into it.
Matt:Do you care about it?
Mel:I definitely care about it. Yeah, but by now it's actually word of mouth. I have this really good rule that turned out to be true When you start your business and you do a job and you get two new jobs out of the one job, you've done a ride.
Matt:Right.
Mel:So I've just repeat that and you do that over a couple of years. You don't necessarily need it, but for me, honestly, it's just a beautiful appreciation to showcase my work the way it has to be seen, you know.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:It's part of your identity.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:And it's also nice to see what people create on a business side and then on a personal side, like I have an account for on Instagram, i have an account for my business and I have an account for my personal photography, so, and I like to see that also for others Like, okay, see, this is the business and I kind of can still, you know, translate everything from the personal on it, but it's just like a tiny bit different. It's really cool to see, yeah, and I love when people actually spend time and, you know, showcase it the way it's supposed to be showcased.
Matt:Which is what?
Mel:I mean, if you've done proper video projects, it's nice to already give an introduction, a little trailer, before it actually gets released.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:You know, share some snippets, get people excited. Put up a strategy about every post. I mean there's, all your energy went into it.
Speaker 1:A lot of energy. Why not showing it Yeah?
Mel:Yeah, and I'm not teasing people, don't tease anymore, and I feel like that's something that should come back.
Matt:I've started doing that with this actually.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:Just putting the highlights out a week before, or at least a few days before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:And because this is a completely different beast, you know podcasting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:Started as just a wanting me to meet with child people and thinking about it now more strategically, it's definitely something we can tease and at least have some highlights that people might watch out for that when it comes out.
Mel:Yeah, just spread the word. But yeah, i'd love seeing trailers, showreels, yeah.
Speaker 1:Even showreels for photographers as well. Yeah.
Mel:It's social media. It is sort of short form content, but you can break it a little. If you make people excited again. just don't show them everything straight away, And that's what I really love.
Matt:So when you talk about how you show your content to your audience or to the general public, how much of that are you thinking about when it comes to the perspectives of others? Or is it just okay, this is me, this is my perspective, this is my environment and I hope you enjoy it. Or are you kind of catering a little bit to? obviously you have to cater to clients. if it's a commercial job, thank you. What about you know the social media side of it and your personal stuff? Is it just from the heart? Here you go.
Mel:For my personal account, definitely from a heart, because it doesn't necessarily need to be a strategy, but I'd like to share BTS. You know I'm out there with models. We actually spend time together. just show snippet, That's fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:And then I really love to record my screen when I edit and then just, you know, speed, ramp it up a little bit.
Matt:I need to be.
Mel:And yeah, it's actually really cool to see for yourself. It's like crazy man. I just spent one hour on a picture What the hell Like. This is a lot of lifetime, that's a lot of energy and making. We are photographers. We know the process, but others don't. And it's so cool to see a before and after, but not only the before and the after, the actual process in between. It's not what we do. Yeah, good point, yeah.
Matt:I just did like I said to you earlier just flew back from the States and had two. Well, i had one 12 hour flight, one 10 hour flight And before and I didn't know what I'd tell myself this every time Like okay, 20 hours of flying, i can edit All of my. I did a project in February and had to have like 50 photos there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:I was like and I would only done maybe 10. So I get them all done. I could get them all done in the flight And then the second flight. I think I just done another nine or 10. I was like yeah, one hour photo, at least It's. But I love the. I love the process and forging something and crafting something that is proud of. I think that's amazing And that's why I'm. I don't know if you sell presets, but I have a love hate relationship with them, so I just, i just don't approve of them because every photo should be its own great place to start from, i guess, preset, and then you're selling an outcome.
Mel:You're ignoring the art Absolutely. The art is the process. And it will always will be, and that's where you actually learn. Buying a preset is a shortcut And you won't take away anything from it If you actually want to learn what it's about. And you know, not everyone is editing the same way. Some people will probably say I'm nuts when they look how I edit on Lightroom, Like I have no structure. I have literally no structure, but the outcome looks good to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:So no one would even think that I'm a chaotic mess. But you know, just buying a preset it would look different. It's, it would not be my fingerprint.
Matt:Yeah, Some people say I don't use presets, but I have used them before And I found that they exactly what you said. They just took away from my artistic vision, or at least giving myself the opportunity to put that vision into practice and starting from a blank slate problem. A lot of people say well, presets are a good, can offer you a starting point.
Matt:Yeah, So you can say but you already you don't know what you could have got to in the same. You might have been able to if you're starting from a certain, just anything. Color grade yeah then you're that's your starting point. I've never really understood it. It's like we don't, why don't you start from? okay, you might be able to use that as a separate reference. Go, okay, i'm going to play around. I don't think it just makes you better at it anyway. Again you're you're using shortcuts, which so you don't necessarily learn the process.
Mel:That well or learn your mistakes. I think it makes sense to buy presets when you already understood how, when you already have your own style. Let's say, you don't understand how artist X is getting this outcome. So you buy a preset and you'll look at the edit and you look at the graphs and you understand oh, this is how you know, this is the exposure. Okay, the whites are completely gone, And this is why it never looked that way for me. Like, you can take away a lot, but I think you know presets are amazing for people that necessarily want to learn it as deep as us. If you don't want to dig in that deep, just buy them. It's fine, That's cool.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, but it's like I I compare it to the shutter button on whatever mirrorless camera these days. Let's take the Sony, a seven out of five, like for me that takes the 20 frames, saying I'm 30, for I don't even know the stats Like. so you've got guys just pointing and you know taking hundred photos hoping that one of them is okay. That's not. that's not photography.
Mel:That's just operating a machine And I compared presets to that kind of. Yeah, i'm going into machine gun mode a lot of times, so you gotta say it depends if you're doing surf surf photography in the waters.
Matt:Like you, have no choice. Things are moving so quickly depending on what you're trying to make. That shot look like. But I imagine you've got a wave crashing down and you've got a surf and moving God knows how fast like you need to capture that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:That's different and like sports photography in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:But I see guys on the street like nothing's really moving and they just sat in and just Yeah. Are you thinking about this much? Yeah just pointing Yeah, Point point, point shoot which and then slap a preset on Instagram. done, yeah, you can turn 10 of those out in a week.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:It's just like it leaves a bit of a bit of bit of taste in like Yeah, but you can tell.
Mel:You can tell when people have their own style. It's just unique.
Matt:Yeah, what is your process like? pre-production, production, post-production process? Talk to me like a general example of any kind of client job. I mean, obviously it starts off with a call and a brief and then how do you? what is the process from there on it?
Mel:Well, what type of shoot? Is it like a fashion shoot or product?
Matt:shoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mel:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, mostly people have a rough idea of what they would want. They have their products, they have a reference, okay. And then we do all of the sourcing We find the location, we find the right models, we find the hair and makeup artist, we book everything in and then obviously prepare a mood and shot list And then, as soon as it's approved, get everything ready. If it's fashion, you have to get everything steamed because it flew over in such a small package, oh yeah.
Mel:It's in 500 clothes, so you kind of have to get it all sorted.
Matt:So they'll send you the clothes ahead of time.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:And you'll know which model Best case. I'm just going to say I'm sure you just get it on the day, right?
Mel:Yeah, it has been pretty tight sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:Two days before or even canceling a shoot.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Yeah.
Mel:Yeah, you never know, it's Chicago, it's a gamble. But yeah, and then we go get everything done the day at the shoot and then post-production depending on how many shots were ordered up to two weeks, one month production time And then, yeah, we get everything done, handing it over and then handing it over, and then that's it.
Matt:Did you do much studio work, or is it all outside when you're doing fashion?
Mel:You mean the location?
Matt:Yeah, Inside or outside of it?
Mel:So I guess many brands choose Bali because they want to shoot at the Bali Village, which to me honestly doesn't make a lot of sense, because you can recreate that anywhere in the world. There is some really beautiful locations, like Casa Nomada and stuff, and they're really timeless, but Bali has so much to offer and sometimes I'm a bit mad because I would want to shoot outside, actually take models out into the rice paddies, shoot proper campaigns and you get those jobs for sure, but the majority is actually inside, which is very weird to me.
Speaker 1:That is weird.
Mel:In Villa, not necessarily in a room, but at the outside area of the Laila.
Matt:Interesting. How do you see the fashion photography set moving forward? Now we've got AI all over our industry with a kind of worrying concerning future ahead of us, but I think. do you worry about that? Do you think you will change your kind of production according to where you think AI is going to go?
Mel:I honestly, I'm really not scared. I think it will make everything a lot easier, just because, when I hand over a shortlist, i can create images before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is.
Mel:Yeah, it's insane. Obviously, you don't necessarily need to go on Pinterest anymore I'm still doing that and get some example shots or even my own shots, but I think it will help. I don't think brands would want something created by an AI in the future. Yeah, have you seen the picture of the Pope wearing? I don't know what it was, i think Balenciaga.
Matt:No, I haven't seen that.
Mel:Yeah, i mean, there's a lot of stuff out there that makes you curious. I saw some party pictures that were in analog style and they looked very real, but then if you look closely, the models have like 50 teeth.
Matt:Yeah, eight hands.
Mel:Yeah, very weird. So I think we're not quite there yet, but I'm also not sure if that's what brands want.
Matt:Honestly, we just went back to selling analog pictures again, yeah, but imagine all of that is looks identical to real life, which is a matter of months away, if not one or two years. So why would a brand pay for you production model, everything a whole fee they could just pay an AI prop to an engineer whatever you want to call them for an hour of their time.
Matt:So, I don't know. I think brands that have got stories to tell or have that deeper meaning behind what they're trying to portray, will not use AI, will not want to, because they want the human aspect, they want the process, they want the story behind it.
Mel:It will always be the human connection, by the end of the day, that wins, for sure.
Matt:Yeah, 100%. Whereas things like food photography or product photography, I mean that, unfortunately, I think that's just a dead industry Yeah classic product photography Yeah you just take a picture of your phone and type it in and that's it You have it perfect.
Mel:Lit in a studio done, But I do agree with you.
Matt:I think it's A. We need to acknowledge the power of it, not just now, but where it's going and how fast it's going. But, like you said, use it. I mean it's an amazing, it's just incredible piece of. I mean, that's the latest bit of AI. We've been using AI for years, right In Photoshop, cameras, softwares, but this is can enhance the process and speed it up and make it more efficient.
Mel:Awesome the text form. amazing For me personally it's amazing.
Matt:Yeah, you mean the copywriting and stuff. Yeah, yeah, wow.
Mel:Yeah, rewrite more professional.
Matt:Make it more funny. Here's a question for you. What is the crazy big idea you would try if you knew you could unfound?
Mel:Well, that would be not photography or videography related, but definitely location related.
Mel:I think it would be our garbage problem. If there was a way to ban plastic like I would and a new, guaranteed it would work, i would drop everything and try to get that done. Because, man, like you speak with people from home and they just see videos of plastic cups laying in CUDA. It's like I think you don't understand. This is huge. I mean, i'm surfing in the south of Bali. There's crazy currents. Usually there's no trash when the other side of Bali, during the rainy season, is completely flooded with it And even there you can't even duck dive without getting something on your head. You know, and it's in the middle of beautiful nature. There's so much you know underwater world dying because of this. It's so many toxins that we take to ourselves as well, like we eat that.
Speaker 1:We credit card a week.
Mel:That's nuts And I honestly I think it's more here.
Matt:I agree. It's drinking out plastic bottles, Yeah at least plastic bottles.
Mel:There's so much unnecessary plastic garbage here. We've all seen it the way locals, i don't, you know, i don't want to generalize it but many, many don't know what to do with their garbage And they just push it into the next river. It is heartbreaking to see because, on one hand, they really, you know, celebrate their land and their whole culture, their whole religion is about keeping the balance, and then, on the other hand, they don't know what to do with their waste and they're destroying it. So but that's not only a problem, obviously in Indonesia, it's anywhere in the world. You just cannot see it as much in Europe.
Matt:Out of sight out of mind. Out of sight out of mind. The garbage patch in the in the Pacific.
Mel:There's so many great solutions already.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:But people ignore it. They don't want to pay money for it.
Matt:People do ignore it And we could do more. We do a lot with being scuba dive. It's like we that's our biggest heartache. It's not obviously it ruining the landscape Yeah, and humanity, but for animal life who, through no fault of their own, are ingesting and dying because of plastics and debris in the ocean.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:Or even on the land as well, breaks our heart. And the other core of all of this is education, yeah, education on on how it affects both humans, animals, the world, but also what, what we can do about it. Yeah, and unfortunately, at the moment it's, it's inhibited by money, right? It costs people money to recycle. It costs people money to choose a more eco friendly option. Most eco friendly options, wherever you go, are more expensive than sometimes also greenwashing.
Mel:Yeah, that's the next problem, especially in Europe.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:Yeah, i don't want to be nihilist about everything, but I always get a feeling that we have no control. We are run by the big noise in the government, people bigger than them, and that's the multi billion dollar industries. Yeah, they control everything And it's we can only do what we can do, right? Yeah, and we equate it to certainly here. It's like dogs, right? They don't know what to do with their dogs. They can't afford sterilization.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:And so when they get a litter of puppies, they do. They can't afford to keep them and they don't know what to do with them. So what's? what do they do?
Mel:They dump them on the street right, And it's same with the garbage. Yeah just like avoiding the big companies.
Matt:If you see only lever somewhere on a bottle, just don't even if it's just not buying a plastic bottle of water and just taking a refillable bowl.
Speaker 1:I mean it's. That is not much.
Mel:It's so easy.
Matt:Especially here. Everyone has water. Actually, even the water gallons here are not the healthiest, but it's so better than buying a plastic bottle, and those bottles get recycled. So yeah yeah, i couldn't agree with you more. That's nice to hear. Actually, what, what you know, what can we say to people that will, i guess? how can you incorporate that into? can you incorporate it into your job, in your passion?
Mel:And is there a greater message that you can use your skills and your your photography for Well, somehow I would bite my own tail saying this right now, because I am nurturing big industry. You know like I'm generating sales with what I'm doing, Yeah, And this is what I make my money with. So obviously I'm happy to work with sustainable brands. I would rather work for sustainable brands and earn less money than working for bigger brands that already sent me their products in five different plastic layers.
Mel:No you know, like you have no idea what, what, what I arrived, what I received at my house already, and the amount of plastic that then lays on my floor. It's just ridiculous, and I know exactly what's going to happen with it here.
Matt:Like, even if you recycle here, you know that actually you don't really know where that goes And I'm sure a lot of it just gets done to the rest of the great organizations here.
Mel:I'm still like a big fan of what some guy watches doing, because at least they educate. They really find out every year who's the big polluter. So they put that message out like Hey stop, please stop buying this. You know, this is we fishing this out of our rivers every day.
Matt:We have to find solutions, but yeah but seeing that to someone doesn't change anyone's mind. They just go already.
Mel:Yeah you have to come with an alternative product.
Matt:Basically, this is killing you, Yeah it's killing your children And it is like that's that's well, they don't have the money to go out and go to green habit. Yeah you know, it's more institutional than that is more systemic.
Mel:Yeah, come from the big people up top. Of course the government has to turn itself on. They just yeah, i mean, look at the infrastructure, it's very depressing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it happy, yeah, yeah.
Matt:Yeah, I will. None of us have a solution.
Mel:Yeah, no, we don't have ideas and ways that we can help in our small little but if I had a guarantee to for a project to definitely work out, that would be my idea for sure.
Matt:Got it. Yeah, if you, i'll support you if you end up doing something like that Part of part of kind of this podcast. usually we we at least try and give some value to certainly maybe beginners or people wanting to kind of look up to the males in this world. How to beginners or people entering the photography industry. I want to enter the photography industry. How do they be like Mel? How do they, how do they get to the point where you get to give us maybe two or three things that you can advise along that pathway?
Mel:Yeah, first of all, I think what helped me the most is meeting up with people that are like minded, that are also, you know, deep in their hearts, creatives. doesn't even matter if you do it for a living or you just do it as a hobby.
Mel:Just meet up, go, shoot together, soak in that knowledge and, you know, also get opinions on what you created It doesn't matter if you actually want to change it afterwards or not, but it's always good to hear And I think on my way I've. I was just crazy lucky to have met so many really insane creatives that have given me so many tips straight away also including my boyfriend, who is a videographer that kind of also kind of led me into videography and is helping me on a daily level whenever I have questions like why did this export?
Speaker 1:didn't work out Oh my god.
Mel:So he's just sitting there and just shaking his head like yeah, see, just this little tick is like yeah, I could have never, like how could I know? You know, it's always good to surround yourself with people that are maybe a bit further than you are also being fine with things not working out straight away. You will face challenges along the way, And that's just part of it. Don't be scared of it. Don't do stuff. Don't do not do stuff because you're scared of failing. That is just the most natural part along your way.
Matt:It's not failing, it's learning, it's learning.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Mel:And you will do that. No matter how far you get, you will always fail on some level, and that's great, that's cool. Just be cool with it.
Matt:Yeah, embrace it, embrace it.
Mel:Yeah, it's actually funny. You will have so many fun stories afterwards.
Matt:Oh yeah, i mean, i fail more time than I succeed, that's for sure. I don't know how you define success. How would you define success?
Mel:Success, just planning my days the way I want them to. I think this freedom is for me success already.
Matt:Amazing.
Mel:I look at the tides and I'm like, okay, tomorrow I can surf in the mornings, i don't have a shoot, let's send it, and then afterwards go home, you know, get my work done and then maybe go for a sunset walk with my dog. It's just. It's such an incredible amount of freedom. It's ridiculous. It makes me so happy and also being healthy, obviously.
Matt:Good for you. Yeah, with Luca, and we're going to get Luca on at some point, but do you guys work together much? No not at all.
Mel:Just for some projects If we sorry if we were hired from like a hotel somewhere else. we do stuff together, but he has a complete different approach than me. He's more on the YouTube side of things.
Matt:Oh, okay.
Mel:Yeah, he's producing man weekly. Really, yeah, he is on it. It's crazy. I don't know how many, how many videos he already uploaded. It's crazy.
Matt:On YouTube. Yeah, why would we see him on?
Mel:YouTube. You should check them out, he's putting an incredible amount of energy into it. But, yeah, we're working next to each other. Let's say that we don't work with each other, and I think that is actually a very nice way of being in a relationship with someone who's also creative.
Matt:Yeah, Because I imagine you could clash on a lot of creative. It could work really well.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:It would be nice and creative.
Mel:Yeah, when you don't want to be all about work all the time. Also, yeah, it's already enough that we have the same hobbies and that we're basically the same person, so let's just have different clients, yeah.
Matt:What is it that you're good at that? he isn't.
Mel:Oh God, Oh man.
Speaker 1:This is so unfair.
Matt:I'm unmuted here. What's he good at that you are?
Mel:He's incredibly efficient. Okay, he is so efficient.
Matt:You're German.
Mel:Yeah, i think he's more German than me And I'm more.
Matt:Italian, you're more Italian.
Mel:Yeah, but yeah, he just knows exactly what shot he needs And that's it. He's not getting more footage while I'm standing there for another 30 minutes. And I'm just getting some more, which then costs me time and post production as well, because you have to look through all your footage. So incredibly efficient and very smart about all the specs and technical things, yeah.
Matt:Yeah, I feel again not trying to stereotype, but the guys are more interested in the technical side of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely I got a subject. Gadgets and stuff Yeah.
Matt:What are your biggest fears in the future and the present, in the space that you're in?
Mel:I guess not being able to see my family again for such a long time and also my friends, because COVID was hard. I said goodbye for four months and I stayed away for two years, yeah, and I feel like I built a life in a parallel universe. It didn't feel like it was all happening in the same universe. I never brought them together, like two years apart somewhere else, with complete new people. It's just so nice having it all together now. Everyone has met everyone and so great to have this life here but still be able to go back. But obviously fear wise chop, wise man. Let me think there's not really a lot that I'm scared of.
Matt:That's great.
Mel:Yeah.
Matt:I think the family thing is, it is will resonate with every, every and unfortunately, you started your time here as COVID hit Right, so you didn't have the choice of really going back and visiting, or at least them coming over here to visit.
Mel:Well, I could have left, but that also would have meant that. I would not be able to come back, and there was already a boyfriend and a dog waiting for me, so that was just not an option.
Matt:Yeah, So Luca was here before you. Yeah, or you met him here.
Mel:Shortly after we met here.
Matt:Yeah, yeah, the family thing. how often do you get to go? How often do you try and go back to Germany?
Mel:Last year I went twice and this year I go once, but for a bit longer.
Matt:Okay, have they been out here yet?
Mel:My mom has been to Bali right before COVID hit. So, I came with her and we traveled around Bali for two weeks and she's like oh, my God, we got to leave. like this, This COVID thing is kind of escalating. It's like nah, mom, it's fine. And she flew home in a week later. the international airport closed like, oh, I guess mommy was fried again.
Matt:Mom's always right.
Mel:Moms are always right, even when it's about pandemics. What does she think?
Matt:about when you first started to get into photography. Was she? what was her thoughts on that kind of rather than getting employed, She knew that I probably would go into that direction.
Mel:Yeah, she always knew. She knew earlier than me. She also always knew that I would live abroad. I didn't. I was like, yeah, you're just going to go somewhere else anyways at some point And I thought she's just mocking me. but at the end of the day she was again right.
Matt:Yeah, of course. How much of your upbringing do you think influences your creative output? So much.
Mel:I think I had no idea how much, but my dad is so creative and he was always crafting something. He was building his Harley's. He was, you know, just taking pictures traveling a lot, and my mom is like the German and our family is like I have to get the work done. She's really strategic, so I think I've got them both, got the perfect mixture of both of them.
Matt:Yeah.
Mel:And we're really grateful for yeah.
Matt:Apart from your inefficiency and messiness, when it comes to editing, but we're not talking about that. Last question for you Why do you think people follow you and keep coming back for more?
Mel:I realized that people follow me because they've met me once, if that makes any sense.
Matt:It's funny, so I was just going to unfollow you.
Mel:You will be the first one doing that. No, honestly, i don't have a huge social media presence, but whenever I meet people, they stick around, and I think many people have stick around for many years. I have so many views on my stories every day.
Matt:Yeah, let me read. Sorry, i don't specifically mean social media Part of it. Yeah, i just mean your general the clients you work with, your audience across all types of whatever offline online media. What is about Mel that everyone loves?
Mel:I guess I have. I've put a lot of energy into what I put out there. It's always thought through. I give some. I really don't know why people stick around. I guess I guess it's first of all a unique story that someone gets stuck at the other side of the world. People really want to know, kind of what happened. And also my career path changed real quick in the moment that I've really leaned into what I really want to do And I guess that's a story everyone kind of wants to hear.
Matt:Yeah, I think what, just from listening to, i think your passion for what you do is is obvious and very attractive for people to watch what you do, be interested in what you do, and especially with clients, i think they can. I've seen this trait across many successful people, people who had success in their own definition creating their own schedule, having time freedom, which means you've got work there when, when you want it And if you want it to have. That, i mean, is amazing.
Matt:For a start And you should be extremely proud of it. I'm sure you are, but I think you can. I think clients can see who you are in terms of why you're doing something, what you're doing for it, and that passion and that drive just comes through in the work, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Matt:I think I think, personality aside, i think they just want and the followers do, whether it's individuals who have no interest in photography and they want to see your stories and your journey. That's part of it, yeah, and who you are, i think that passion of you just getting up every day and doing what you want to do is inspirational for a lot of people. So I think, in my opinion, that's what I would see, why people, that's why I follow you, that's why I try to get you on the podcast. So thank you so much for coming.
Mel:It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on.
Matt:And please bug Luca for me. when he's got some spare time and we're both in the same country together, we'll get him on as well.
Mel:Yeah, i'll get him now, for sure.
Matt:Thank you again, good luck with the future And hopefully we'll cross paths again soon.
Mel:Thank you, cheers, cheers.
Speaker 1:So thank you, Deury çocuğo.