From Failure to Focal Point: Anest Putra's Unlikely Photography Career, E026

Could you imagine turning a business failure into an unexpected career in photography? That's the incredible story of our guest, Anest Putra, a Jakarta-based portrait photographer whose journey into the realm of photography started as a way to settle a troubled business investment. Anest isn’t just passionate about the art of photography but also values deeply the human connection it brings, often spending significant time with his subjects, understanding them before capturing their essence.

Navigating the professional sphere of photography in Jakarta, Anest's strategy for booking studio sessions, balancing a robust social media presence while honing his craft, and the pressure to constantly churn out quality content makes for a fascinating exploration into the life of a professional photographer in Indonesia. We discuss the fine line between being an artist and photographer, the struggle of balancing art and commercial work, and the importance of delegation in achieving business success. In the latter part of this episode, we also dive into the concept of success, happiness, and inspiration.

Thank you to Anest for digging deep and braving the world of English-speaking podcasts, it was a pleasure to have him on.

Find his digital platforms with the links below:
Instagram: @bejanawaktu
Website: https://campsite.bio/bejanawaktu
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Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Enes Putra is an Indonesian born portrait photographer Living in Jakarta. He has experimented with many styles of portrait photography and continues to evolve and forge his way through the challenging world of freelance photography. His Genesis story fascinated me how he fell into photography through no deliberate or initial passion and how he worked so hard still to just try and be better each day. It's always a little daunting for non-English speakers to come on the show, so I'm extremely grateful for Enes to sit in the studio with me. I wish him the very best with his future photography and podcast plans and I hope to welcome him back to the studio sometime very soon. And here is Enes Putra. Enes, well, you're very, very welcome on the Mook Podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:49

It's an absolute pleasure to have you here.

Speaker 1: 0:51

This was kind of like a last minute rushed appointment, because you're only in Bali for a few days and you're doing shoots and stuff, so I really appreciate you taking time to come and sit with me and we have a mutual friend, rissang, who used to work for me, so he introduced me to your social media profile, which is fantastic.

Speaker 1: 1:12

I wanted to start there. Actually, how would you kind of introduce yourself or define what you do? I mean, you look at your social media and your link tree I think it's a link tree or your website you do so many things. It's like wow, I mean all incredible stuff. How would you, if I was to ask you you know who are you, what do you do? How would you answer that?

Speaker 2: 1:35

The simple way to introduce myself like I'm a portrait photographer. That's the simple way to introduce myself to people. I love to talk with people and then I love to shoot people and then my first introduction to photography is like true portraits. So, yeah, that's the easy way to introduce myself to the people of the world. So I'm a portrait photographer, true portraits, what do you mean? Yeah, I like to talk to people and then like this, having conversation, and then in portraits, if I met someone and then I have an appointment to have a shoot, like maybe 70% of the time is to chat and to talk and to discuss and to talk about everything and then the 25% is shoot. So maybe, I don't know, that's my, I was born with that, I guess With that with that, with that Desire, desire, yeah, desire.

Speaker 2: 2:39

I love to talk to people and then that's why, when Rizang asked me to have a podcast with you, he said we want to go in. Actually, I want to have my own podcast. So like this is like really triggered me to have my own podcast let's do it, but actually in Jakarta I have a place with my friend but I don't have like any stuff to start. But maybe next year I will start my own podcast to talk with my fellow photographer in Jakarta.

Speaker 1: 3:08

That's cool. We were talking over about the podcast sector, I guess you call it. In Indonesia that's relatively underdeveloped. Why do you think, like the photography podcast area and world is not very popular in Indonesia?

Speaker 2: 3:25

I don't know, Maybe the YouTube channel was I think we can mention some names but podcasts about photography, I think. Maybe podcasts about creative stuff, Maybe there's some podcasts, but specifically in podcasts. Or videography, maybe. I guess I haven't found like specific one about photography and videography.

Speaker 1: 3:49

That's it. We are the one.

Speaker 2: 3:51

Yeah, yeah, you are the pioneer, I guess.

Speaker 1: 3:54

But about my ambition with this podcast was exactly like you just described just to talk to people. I don't think we do that enough. I mean portrait photographers like to do that. Usually, every portrait photographer I speak to it's because they want to meet people, they want to talk to people, they want to have that connection. The photography kind of comes like you said the last 20% right.

Speaker 1: 4:20

Same with this, and I find that it's such a privilege to be able to sit across from other photographers and just chat, because photographers are very much like in their own world Usually it's when they are unusually technical or they have their own individual vision. They don't Usually. Sometimes you work with a team, but you're not all photographers. You're a photographer, director of photography or whatever. So makeup artists or that kind of stuff. So why the interest in people then? Why have you always had that in your life?

Speaker 2: 4:58

Maybe I want to start with how I jump into photography. So back in like 2010, I guess my brother started photography. First he was like a wedding photographer and then but the funny thing is, he wasn't teach me about photography. I'm holding this camera and then I try to shoot, and then why is it black?

Speaker 1: 5:28

I don't know about triangle Lens cap still on.

Speaker 2: 5:31

Yeah, another stuff. So, yeah, that's my first time introduction to photography, to camera, and then fast forward to 2016,. I guess I started out like a clothing line business with my friends, like two with one, my friend, and then but he was only invest investor so he didn't do like the work stuff, the production stuff, so it ended up like bad, so bad, like only like one year and then I have to pay his money back.

Speaker 1: 6:13

So like.

Speaker 2: 6:14

I don't know how much, maybe like 100 million rupees. So for other people photography may be like the hobby, the expression, how they express their art, but for me photography is like how I saved my life from that. So that triggered me to start photography, I guess. But so not from art, not from hobby, but that's how I, that's the only thing I did to save my life back then.

Speaker 1: 6:45

So you wait? You started photography to earn the money back to pay your investors, yeah because I'm doing like.

Speaker 2: 6:51

I'm like I don't know, like maybe I'm helping my friends, like hosting their coffee shop, so I arrange live music, and then I'm like stage manager or full manager, I guess so, but the money I have to work like maybe, like I have to work like so many hours to pay the money back. So when I started photography, I think this is my way to to to repay the money.

Speaker 1: 7:25

And now do you think photography, your photography, pays you. Well, are you happy with the kind of the money that you get from photography? Or now do you care more about the art and the passion?

Speaker 2: 7:37

Yeah, besides COVID yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:40

I can. I can imagine.

Speaker 2: 7:42

Yeah, if you, if you discuss, discuss about COVID, like I'm already like back to back to zero when COVID happened, so I have to solve my lens of my camera to survive and then, but I can like rebuild my, my own self and then from scratch, like from 2020, from now and then.

Speaker 2: 8:06

This is, like my, my best time in my photography career. I guess, if I looking back to like five years ago, maybe that's awesome. I did work in a in a different way, I did an advertising agency back in 2016 and 2017, but like only for seven months, eight months, and then one one time my friends asked me to shoot for like brands, like 11 days straight, when, when, when the offer come, I was in in my office, so I have to like ask, to ask permission to leave the office to shoot that, and then I only shoot like five days from 11. So the six days I have to ask my friend to help me to shoot, and then and then it made me think that when, when I got the money, I think like how come I work like one month, this is how I got, and then this is like five days, this is all I got. And then it made me think to to how, what about starting photography? And then the rest is sorry, cool.

Speaker 1: 9:15

That's awesome. So what lessons did you learn along the way that you could maybe tell people who just starting photography to maybe not make maybe the same mistakes or lessons that you've learned that could help people just starting.

Speaker 2: 9:31

One thing I learned that everybody has their own timeline. If I start photography in back in 2010, when, when my brother is saying my brother teach me how to shoot photography, maybe I was on a photographer right now, Maybe I don't know. So the perfect time for me, yeah, back in 2017, when I'm 17 or 2016, when I first have my own camera, that is the perfect time for me to to start photography career. So, and then I was 27 back then when I started photography. And then my peers like 20, like 70, like 22. And then their, their art was awesome, and then I'm just starting out, and then I'm still like learning to, to to to in photography.

Speaker 2: 10:24

But I, but I, and I'm thinking like, no, no, no, everyone has their own time when maybe they started young, younger than me, but I have my own network that I built since 2010, I guess from social media, and that's how I, how I make my career in photography. Like for 10 years, I, I already have my network, People that I know they will give me a job for photography. So when I start photography, they will ask like, hey, you, you start in photography Now. Can you help me to shoot for this?

Speaker 2: 11:01

for that, for that, and then the rest is history.

Speaker 1: 11:06

Well, yeah, I think it is important. I battled with that a lot. I really struggled with because I started photography when I was 30, 33, 34, 34. I'm now 41. And I thought exactly the same thing, like, oh, it's just a hobby and it's just something I like, and then wanted to do you know, do it for money or for, like serious projects or my interest in the specific genre that I shoot grew and grew and grew. So I was like, oh God, you know, I need to go quicker, because everyone I know started in their 20s, right, and they social media for them was more natural. They started on Instagram when Instagram was blowing up for photographers. They were just in a place that I wasn't and I really battled with that.

Speaker 1: 11:54

So I do understand, like when you're starting something later, it's really difficult to not look at the young people and then you start rushing, then you start worrying and then you know that can negatively affect your art. I guess you know I read a stat the other day. It was oh, I'm going to really not repeat this stat very well, but it was something like you reached the peak amount of income after you're 45. The 90% of all the millionaires in the world are 50 or above, et cetera, et cetera. So it's like oh yeah, you know, some of the most important people in the world started businesses when they're 40, 45.

Speaker 1: 12:37

And I think it's important to remember. You know you need everything in your brain to be able to do something well.

Speaker 2: 12:44

And.

Speaker 1: 12:44

I think when you're young you're missing wisdom right, because you haven't necessarily lived for long enough to kind of have that wisdom. But I may be wrong, but that's my experience, so I do totally understand. What are you doing now? What kind of like? I know you're a portrait photographer and you know I've looked at all of your stuff and you know, been following you for a little bit. Now what, who do you work with? I mean, what are your kind of business photography? You know collaborations or outputs. I know you might not be able to say names, but are they fashion brands? Are they? You know equipment brands, individuals, clients, whatever. What do?

Speaker 2: 13:26

you normally do when I started photography like maybe not much job that I did like in one month so like, maybe, event photography in Jakarta like one thing I like about working photography in Jakarta is like there is so many events in Jakarta, like for any company. And then, yeah, that's my in 2017, that's my, the thing that I did in 2017. And then I think 2018, when I resigned from my work in agency, I met with my friends. His name is Akbar Mus. He is a photographer from for Run. Run is an Indonesian musician. So so Akbar is like a stage photographer for Run for like maybe five years back then, yeah, and then I asked him tell me about stage photography, how did you make money from stage photography and then stuff.

Speaker 2: 14:32

And then one month later, I met a musician, a racing star. His name was Pamungkas. So so I talked to him, talked to his manager, and then we started like he he he was in his earlier career in like maybe just release her first album, and then I'm being the part of the his team from 2017 to maybe 2020, before COVID. So one, one and a half year I was a stage photographer for Pamungkas and doing stage photography for him, like for to from city to other city in Indonesia While doing other photography stuff. While I, while I can, so maybe in stage photography, like maybe one one month, I can like move from like 15 stage to 20 stage.

Speaker 2: 15:30

So I don't have much time to to do other stuff. So when when COVID happened, I don't quit from the Pamungkas team and then working for my home since then, and then COVID happened, and then, yeah, so who do you work with now? So, oh, yeah, now my main job is actually a headshot photographer. Okay, headshot photography. So in Jakarta, like many startups, I mean be company like doing their photography, like for ID card or annual reports, so that's my, that's pretty much my client right now, but not not every month. Do you have a studio? No, no, I came to their office.

Speaker 1: 16:15

You go to their office and do that.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Yeah, sometimes for the small, the smaller company, I will book a studio and then they come to the studio. Do you enjoy that? Yeah, I really enjoy that. That. That that makes like maybe like 60, 60% of my income right now. But I'm also doing like personal, individual headshot. Yeah, like people photographer, photographer in the world, like maybe doing the same stuff for individual. And then, yeah, I also did that, like maybe in one month I make a session like one. I book a studio for one for eight hours and then I invite and I announce the schedule to Instagram and then people will book from eight to 10 and then for the whole eight hours, maybe I will get like five or five, four or five people to shoot this studio, so they'll come to the studio shoot them in the next next.

Speaker 1: 17:14

So you make. I mean, how much do you charge for those shoots?

Speaker 2: 17:18

From like one and a half million rupees for two thousand two million.

Speaker 1: 17:22

So for people listening one and a half million rupees about, I guess, 60 US dollars.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, around 60. And then they will get like 10 edited people. Okay cool.

Speaker 1: 17:35

And that's how. So that's four to five days. So you pay the studio off and then you get, you're able to make some.

Speaker 2: 17:42

Yeah, that's, that's only one day, like, maybe in the in the like, maybe, like, maybe next, next 12th of November, I will have a session, and then, and the other, and the other day I'm doing like even photography, and doing like individual photography for endorsement and I'm doing like, oh, the, the one genre of photography, or maybe the one job that I did in COVID time, like it's the single cover artwork for musician.

Speaker 1: 18:14

Oh cool, yeah, yeah. So I don't know.

Speaker 2: 18:17

I don't know when I started, but when, when COVID happens, like I can, I can do like three musicians in one month. So I shoot for the single artwork and also their profiles. So they have to update the profile, right. So the artist profile and then, yeah, that's that. That also. I'm also doing that in my upcoming musician that I took the profile. The artwork is maybe will be released in 23rd of November.

Speaker 1: 18:46

Can you tell us where it is? Satin Zaneta, satin Zaneta, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Okay. So her? I don't know, this is maybe like her third or maybe fourth single after her EP. Okay, cool.

Speaker 1: 19:01

We mentioned social media a little bit Like do you get much business from your Instagram profile?

Speaker 2: 19:06

Yeah, and you do, yeah yeah, a lot I'm doing, like maybe I'm selling presets. I'm doing, I'm doing, I did my, my, my workshop, like back in I don't know April. Maybe I record it and I sell it to the people who cannot come to the workshop. So I held it in Jakarta and the people in Indonesia can buy it for a cheaper price. And yeah, that that makes some money to to pay the Adobe subscription and then other stuff.

Speaker 1: 19:38

Yeah, the Adobe subscription, we need to get sponsored by Adobe. But what I mean in terms of Instagram, do you get brands reaching out to you on Instagram? Like how much business comes through that. Your Instagram profile.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Not quite much. I guess I have to choose between work and my social media presence. So when, when, when the time I have to choose when, when I have to work and when I have to to make content from my social media, I usually prefer my, my work. So maybe one month I will work for my social media and one month I'm not posting anything. Yeah, that's why. That's why my social media like haven't grow, like, really like this, and then just just study, study this, but slowly growing, growing. It's difficult isn't it?

Speaker 1: 20:27

Yeah, it's difficult to do in work and then social media.

Speaker 2: 20:29

You have to choose between between that if you are already content creator, or really professional photographer. You have to choose, because doing that stuff is pretty burnt out. I guess, yeah, if you are doing the the two stuff, except you have like small team to do the editing and then to shoot and stuff.

Speaker 1: 20:51

I couldn't do it without an editor, yeah. And and someone to help me do the posts, yeah, yeah, which which I am very fortunate to be able to do, that because it's so much work. If you, if you want to grow as a photographer on social media, you've got to be posting quality content for a start, educational content yeah, educational, or if you're just posting?

Speaker 1: 21:12

photos. They've got to be your professional photos. They don't have to be. But you know, as photographers we want to put out what we think is good. We're very strict on our the standard of our output. So to do that, and then you've got to be posting five times a week all the time minimum you know. And then you've got stories, and then you've got the edits, got reels as photographer. If you're not a filmmaker, doing a reel as a photographer is difficult, it's just, it's a full, almost a full time job.

Speaker 2: 21:41

If you only if you only post like only pictures. No, nobody cares.

Speaker 1: 21:45

Yeah, Instagram don't care no it's a shame.

Speaker 2: 21:47

It's not only about reels, reels and reels.

Speaker 1: 21:49

Do you think that's?

Speaker 2: 21:50

bad. Yeah, I think I send. Maybe I can call myself as an artist, right, maybe I don't, personally I don't care. I don't call myself like an artist because I work for money. I shoot for money like really really shoot for money, and then I guess I don't have that kind of art in in in Sardinia. But I think for for the past, like one or one or two years, I'll always think about how long will I do this Like work for money, work for money, and then when will I start to to have a life that I shoot for my own, my own liking, and then people will like it and buy it and stuff. So I think it's it's.

Speaker 2: 22:40

It's bad, but not not. Not that bad, because social media is how I get my clients right. So I always try my best to post like content in my Instagram, in my TikTok as well, to like get people to maybe not to get clients, but to get people remember me. People will will have me as when, when they need photography, photographer, they will think about, oh, maybe I can contact Hones and then this stuff. So it's bad, but if you can use it like wisely, you can, you can, you can make the most of it, I guess so. So you have to pick your own, your own weapons, I guess. To which one do you want to prefer?

Speaker 1: 23:29

Pick your own poison.

Speaker 2: 23:30

Yeah, yeah, I hope it's your poison it's.

Speaker 1: 23:32

it's very, very difficult and I totally agree with you. It's a tool, right it's. How are you going to use that tool? And if you can use it to your advantage, to use it to advantage. The problem becomes when you're working as hard as any photographer. Is that, like you said, be choosing between boosting your social media profile and working as a photographer for money? I don't think they always have to be mutually exclusive. I don't think it's not always one or the other, but if you work on your social media, you're going to get the opportunity cost of not getting jobs as a photographer, and vice versa.

Speaker 1: 24:15

And it's like it's so difficult to balance how much time we're going to put into this, how much time we're going to put into this and is there any crossover? If a photographer is starting out now, let's say they're beginner and they look up and ask and go, I want to do what he does. What would you advise, like if you teach workshops? Do you talk about that in terms of the balance between growing a social media profile Because it's useful.

Speaker 1: 24:41

It's a very useful tool. You can get money from that. But it distracts, it detracts from paid work. What advice can you give beginners on dealing with that?

Speaker 2: 24:55

Actually, in my workshop I only teach about lighting basic lighting technical stuff I haven't talked about, maybe mindset or how to do this, how to do that but if someone came to me and asked about how to start photography, maybe I will ask them how do you earn your money right now? If you are you maybe still asking money from your parents or are you working? I need to know that Because if you work Monday to Friday, you can work for photography on the weekend. You can also do photography after you're working. So maybe you can start from whatever you are right now and then start doing photography as a habit, like everyday habit. That's what I did back in 2016,.

Speaker 2: 25:59

I guess Every day I took my camera and then I shoot there and then I learned from YouTube. That's the only way I learned about photography from YouTube, and then every day take a shot and then constantly learning from people and then, along the way, you will find your how. I can say you will find your liking in photography. Maybe you're like portrait, You're like street, and then, by doing the photography good, you will find your job. That's the fact.

Speaker 1: 26:37

How did that process work for you? And I remember you talking about the need to go and be a photographer to basically get money, but I don't think we talked specifically about why portrait. I know you like people, but was that the first thing, or did you try other genres? And then you tried landscape, you tried street, you tried aerial, travel, portrait, and then, oh, I actually like portrait.

Speaker 2: 27:03

So I can't remember who said this to me, but do learn photography and do photography with everything you have every day. So when I wanted to learn about photography and I have to travel, that didn't make the list of my options back then. So portrait is the only way that I can learn photography. I can meet everyone every day to learn about photography and portrait. So if I do, maybe other genre, maybe I cannot do it constantly, because if you want to master one thing, you have to do it constantly, every day to 10,000 hours.

Speaker 2: 27:55

You have to do it like that. So if I'm doing street, I don't like to go out much, especially in Jakarta. It's hot, yeah, and then I'm not that street photographer, I guess. So portrait is the only thing, and then music is music portraits crossover. So that's why I'm doing stage photography. I'm doing like a single copper artwork for musicians, so it's always about music and photography.

Speaker 1: 28:27

So the advice there, I guess, would be to number one do what you know ie music and do what you meet your circumstances and your environment is able to you right. I totally agree. If you can't travel or you don't like traveling, you don't be a travel photographer. If you don't like people don't be a portrait photographer.

Speaker 2: 28:53

You are an introvert, you cannot talk to people, and then maybe you're doing like product photography, right? Or maybe landscape photography. Yeah landscape photography. So make it easier to you to learn with all the things you meet every day.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Maybe. What do you enjoy the most about your portrait? My portrait.

Speaker 2: 29:17

I don't know. If you search in social media, there is no red line, no up way. Nothing common in my portraits. I guess I'm doing street fashion, I'm doing beauty.

Speaker 1: 29:37

I'm doing all the stuff. The first question I asked you is what?

Speaker 2: 29:40

do you do? Yeah, I'm doing. I like to explore everything. So I like to explore any photography that I haven't tried. So beauty shoot and then fashion. Maybe when I found someone in one genre, I want to learn all that I can learn from him and then I try it. If it doesn't make it, I try another, explore another thing. So that's why maybe in my five, maybe five or six years in photography, I'm still exploring what I like and what I'm great at doing?

Speaker 1: 30:25

What do you think that is right now?

Speaker 2: 30:30

Right now maybe Portraits, yeah. What type of portraits there.

Speaker 1: 30:38

Studio portraits yeah, with like models, or yeah, models.

Speaker 2: 30:44

So if you search in my page on Instagram, I'm not shooting like professional models. So the people in my feed like the people I think good looking and then have a big amount of following. That's the only way I think I can grow my Instagram. So I collaborate with everyone with big following and then they have a good looking and then I approach them to have a collaboration to shoot and then, yeah, so when I'm doing like company profile or headshot, that's my main job, that's how I get my money. But when I do collaboration with people, that's how I maybe like the hobby side of photography. Yeah, I fulfill my hobby in photography by doing collaboration with people.

Speaker 1: 31:40

Well, it's also practice.

Speaker 2: 31:42

Yeah, I mean, I think that's so important.

Speaker 1: 31:44

Like, especially if you're portrait photography, you need someone to practice on right. If you're landscape photography, you just go out and practice. So, yeah, I think that's a really important lesson, and I do that as well. Get models in who either want content for themselves or are willing to just collaborate Because it's just practice, or you want to try something new. Like, oh, just get someone in and try something new. What about the difficulties you have doing your job? Are there any like big challenges that you face day by day? Or you find everything kind of fairly easy Other than getting money.

Speaker 2: 32:26

This is like, maybe in line with what I said earlier.

Speaker 2: 32:34

So I have to, from now on I have to hold myself to not doing collaboration that much because that can affect my schedule in my work, because when I'm doing collaboration I have to edit the picture, I have to spend the money to run some lenses and then so in other production stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:57

So from now on I maybe will doing like tie shot with professional model or model agency to grow my page a lot better, I guess, to invite more clients to hire me to more professional work in fashion or maybe other stuff. So the challenge for me right now is to maybe not doing like swimming collapse and then not doing like maybe small work. I guess, maybe like people will ask me to shoot the graduation, maybe I will ask my team to do that. So I will prefer to learn more about business or photography and then building a team or maybe building a business in photography, rather than doing that stuff every day. So the smaller things I will ask my team to do it. But the business and how to grow my own business, I will more doing that in the future.

Speaker 1: 34:03

The challenge being able to delegate to someone else and trust them to do the quality of work that you want.

Speaker 2: 34:12

The editing. I don't quite confident to ask my team to edit my work. So yeah, that's the burnout caused by what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 34:28

What about your dreams? Like where do you want to go with photography? Is this something you're going to do for the rest of your life? You want to build big enough business to be rich. Like how do you? What are your goals, what are your dreams?

Speaker 2: 34:47

Okay, I can see myself still doing photography in like, maybe five years later, because my girlfriend is also doing like, but she's doing like videography. I think maybe I will like traveling with her, maybe I'm shifting to travel photography with my girl.

Speaker 2: 35:10

But I love photography. I prefer doing like more, like printing stuff. So doing short, doing concept tools short and then print and then sell and then have my own website. I think I want to reach the global audience for photography, I guess, maybe with websites and doing more like more like global clients maybe. I guess so the reason I go to Bali I told you that I'm enrolled in photography workshop, like three days, three nights and two days back then. So that's why I'm here in Bali. So the reason I enrolled the course is to step up my game in photography.

Speaker 2: 36:01

So, yeah, I will doing photography, maybe like for the rest of my life, I guess, but the doing photography for money, I guess. Maybe I have to limit my time to maybe like 40 or 45 to do the dirty stuff. So I will doing only the business stuff. In maybe 10 years I had, but every day doing street photography. I think that's really a beautiful life, like maybe you woke up and then making coffee and then you go to the streets taking street photography, telling story. That's how I want to see myself in like maybe 10 years storytelling from photography.

Speaker 1: 36:51

Awesome. Well, yeah, I hope I get there as well, maybe I can ask you about photography.

Speaker 2: 36:59

You are doing like cultural portraits, right, but how did you make money from photography right now?

Speaker 1: 37:08

It's very difficult. One reason I started doing YouTube and putting a lot of time and effort into growing the social media platforms was to diversify the revenue that I might be able to get from photography, Actually this podcast. I don't care if this podcast makes any money or not.

Speaker 1: 37:29

I can agree if it does, but I just enjoyed doing this, so this was never a money making thing. But yeah, the cultural portraits stuff. It's not the most popular genre for brands and for tourism agencies or for other companies out there looking to tell that story of the people, which is a shame, and now everyone's so focused on video and they're so focused on getting content not art content for social media, including some of the biggest brands out there. It puts me in a very difficult position so I have to have other things that come in. Obviously, I have another full-time job as well which pays me salary, which helps.

Speaker 1: 38:17

So really, the cultural portrait stuff was a passion, personal passion projects and then I've done some projects that have combined my vision with what they wanted as well. So I would have pitched coming to your country or city or your place or your area. I'm going to shoot some photos. Do you want them? Do you want them? Do you want to pay me for them or do you want an input? So that has worked a few times, but I've got plans for next year to pitch to various companies who I know would be interested in my style. So, again, it's more difficult than, say, normal travel photography would be. But it's just building that network, and especially here where really the one reason we moved here is because we loved Indonesia so much and there's so much to explore, especially as a photographer. So, yeah, it's difficult, but it's definitely possible and probable and I don't want to do something that everyone else is doing.

Speaker 1: 39:30

So it's always like we're talking about that battle between art and what your passion is and compare it to either your social media content or what clients want, and I don't really like clients telling me what to do, so it's difficult Sometimes you just have to right.

Speaker 1: 39:51

If you want the money you have to, and that's just life. So yeah, so it's always difficult. Who inspires you? What are your inspirations? You must look at a lot of social media accounts. You must have read photography, books, other people's websites, other people's work. Whether they're dead or alive, there are still people that you kind of see daily or often, that you get inspiration from.

Speaker 2: 40:24

Okay, In Indonesia. Maybe I have some names in my mind right now, but someone that I think about right now is the name is Sean Tucker. You know, Like he's an English photographer, UK. His name is Sean Tucker. So I learned about photography not the technical way, but the principle and then philosophy way of photography from Sean Tucker.

Speaker 2: 40:53

So he's doing like, also doing photography for work, but also doing photography for, like I don't know, some kind of therapy for himself or for other people and then therapy, yeah, and the great thing is his channel, his YouTube channel, is also growing and then he shoot street photography and make a book for that, like I don't know, maybe like five volume right now, five volume of photography. So every year he will he was, he was created his best work of photography, of street photography, and then sell it to the world, like maybe like physical, physical, book and ebook photography, street photography, and then like teaching people in YouTube as well. So maybe I'm doing that and that's inspired me to do what I'm doing right now. I guess Maybe I haven't started. I have my own channel, YouTube channel, but I haven't started because, yeah, WordPress, and then making contents.

Speaker 2: 41:57

After. What was his name? Sean Tucker, sean Tucker, sean Tucker, s-e-a-n, s-e. And Sean Sean Tucker, tucker Tucker. Yeah, I feel like I've heard. Yeah, yeah, he's an UK photographer and YouTuber. Yeah, he's a great, great, great man. And then I also love his, his, how he share his, his minds to the, to the, to the photography people, and then like, while also doing like teaching, like technical stuff, Right, okay, so what does he do?

Speaker 1: 42:36

So is it how he teaches, or what he teaches? How he teaches, okay.

Speaker 2: 42:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:43

Cool, I'll go and check him out. How do you feel in terms of? I was going to ask you about your YouTube account. Yeah, what is? Is that? The future you know is, is YouTube something that will be around forever? Do you think AI will have a big impact on what you do and what YouTube means to people? Why? Why are you? You know? Tell us, tell us a bit about your thoughts on.

Speaker 2: 43:12

YouTube Like I'm learning. I'm learning photography from YouTube right from like 2016. So so it helps me a lot to to start my career. And then AI I think people are scared too much for for for AI. I guess in Adobe Lightroom, ai helped me a lot to like maybe in one click I can retouch someone.

Speaker 1: 43:39

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 43:40

From AI, so it's more like a tool for me. Ai doesn't scare me that much right now, I guess maybe like two or three or five years ahead, I don't know how AI can. I think AI, ai can never replace us as a photographer. Like the photography needs human touch, I guess, especially in portraits. You cannot do that by AI. It's not genuine smiles, I guess. I see I've seen some, some AI portraits and then no, this is not genuine.

Speaker 2: 44:15

This is, this is this is no, this is AI. Ai cannot do that, I guess. So I think we're safe, like maybe you're fine for now Maybe like for the three or five years ahead, but no, it's just a tool for me, yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:31

Yeah, um give people an idea of what equipment you use, because I know, it's always. You know, especially in Indonesia. They love the equipment.

Speaker 2: 44:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:43

So tell, tell everyone what you're listening, what, what equipment you use and, most importantly, why.

Speaker 2: 44:50

Maybe I can share with my my first yeah, my first camera. I bought Canon M else M5 or M10 I've got back in 2016. And then I bought the Canon 7D in 2017, one year later and then I switched to Sony in 2019 because I want to do like the hybrid thing yeah, doing video and doing photos of Canon 6D cannot do it do that. So I switched to Sony Sony a73, and then 24 to 70 millimeter GM Sony lens and the.

Speaker 2: 45:35

G Master, g Master, yeah, well, also, I only want only 2.8. Yeah, 2.8. I only have that lens, that G Master lens, and then super Takuma there, 50 millimeter, 1.44, like maybe artistic stuff, 50 mil, yeah, that's the lens for portraits, right? Yeah, perfect lens for portraits, I guess.

Speaker 1: 45:55

Where's our 50 mil? This one, I think.

Speaker 2: 45:58

Yeah, love it. You have a lot of lens, I guess.

Speaker 1: 46:01

Have to. Yeah, yeah. So we have 2870, I'm a Canon guy 2870 F2, which is really good, but it's so heavy. Yeah, yeah, oh, it's just too heavy actually. We have the 50 mil 1.2, which is incredible. And just the 1635 for the wide angle.

Speaker 2: 46:21

Yeah, I only have that lens For work. I will rent, yeah, rent, yeah, rent.

Speaker 1: 46:28

That's the best way to do it, yeah yeah, Cool, and before we start kind of finishing up our conversation, usually I'd kind of ask the guest to give some advice to people watching, people who look up to you, want to be like you, or just starting photography beginners, and you talk. I know you do workshops We'll talk about that in a minute but what is your favorite piece of advice when it comes to lighting? To lighting.

Speaker 2: 47:00

Hmm, I think, I think it's not that scary. Yet People, like maybe some of my audience in Instagram always ask me about lighting this and that when you try to shoot in studio with lighting and stuff, the only way to learn is to practice. Right, I also practice like maybe I don't know how many times in studio, but lighting is all about. Do not think lighting that much. So when you're in studio you have like continuous lighting or flash. Maybe you have to practice, but just try. I don't use like meter or stuff, so I just try to light the subject and then doing like one lighting first and then build the lighting to the kicker light and then the field light and then just build the lighting one by one and then until you get which one. So just like practice and then just focus on one lighting and then make it better. Make it better so another lighting, make it better.

Speaker 1: 48:29

Yeah, slowly slowly, slowly slowly. Yeah, I couldn't agree. More Practices. Actually, I talk about this all the time and it's probably got to a point where it's boring to me to talk about. Practice is the key to all of this. Anyone can learn the technical aspect of anyone, but to get good at it it's only practice. If you have a confined environment like this, like a studio. What a way to learn Brilliant. And I always say to my students just use one light, Get master one light, Master one light.

Speaker 2: 49:06

That's it, whether it's natural light or artificial light.

Speaker 2: 49:09

If you can do one light and make different lighting setups from just one lighting, you're already nailed it. Yeah, so lighting is just like additional to make mood, to make what client wants and stuff. So just master one lighting and then, if you're afraid to learn lighting in studio, just ask your friend to book a studio so you don't have to pay that much to rent studio. Just study with your friends. I remember in 2018 or 16, I guess, indonesian photographer his name is Buk Saktisiddarta, so he will book our studio and then invite his followers to hey, please come to the studio, I will teach you how to do in studio with lighting and then bring your camera and then I will teach for free. And that's what triggered me to learn in the first time in 2016 or 18 in lighting. That's why I'm learning. I'm starting to quite, I think, maybe, like I'm liking to do studio stuff rather than the outside stuff photography.

Speaker 1: 50:27

Yeah, so tell us a little bit about your workshops, because I don't think I saw that anywhere on your. Maybe I missed it, so apologies, but tell us a bit about your workshops, how often you do them, exactly what you teach Is it one day, five days, two hours?

Speaker 2: 50:43

So actually I'm planning to do the workshop like in this time, maybe when I'm in Bali, but I don't have a team to do it and then. So I will plan our schedule to next month, I guess. So Bali, jogja, bandung, in Jakarta is four cities that I want to do workshop.

Speaker 1: 51:07

For those who aren't from Indonesia, tell us where that is. So Bandung in West Java, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:12

Bandung, west Java, jogja as in Jogjakarta. Yeah, it's in Java as well.

Speaker 1: 51:14

Jogjakarta, kakato, and then where was the other place?

Speaker 2: 51:19

you said In Jakarta, in the studio the three places, yeah, three, okay, got it.

Speaker 1: 51:27

Oh, for Bali, for Bali.

Speaker 2: 51:30

I haven't got the time yet. Maybe like next year, maybe earlier January or February, I have to build a small team to work on that. In my workshop I just teach about basics, like two kind of workshops, like basic and creative lighting kind of workshop. So the basic lighting is only teaching you about how to set up the light and how one light will affect the subject and how to do the reflector trigger and really really technical stuff for people that haven't tried studio photography, so that really really basics and then not much theory or slides or PowerPoint. So just like this is trigger, this is it, this is how you do it and then I will shoot it and then people will take turns to shoot to try with lighting. And then for creative lighting, yeah, I will use like gels, I will use like continuous with gels or continuous with or maybe with a smoke machine and then other stuff. So really many creative ways with maybe like projector or, yeah, doing all the creative lightings Tell people what you mean by creative lighting.

Speaker 2: 52:51

So in my work some clients asked me about like, can you do this, can you do that? So I will break down my, my password to make them understand how the lighting works. So the creative ways is maybe how you can use other creative stuff to make the lighting. So not only the lighting you have, but yeah, with my little sheets, with smoke machine and other stuff, with RGB, with gel and then stuff, yeah, create the lighting and then shape the lighting with go bows and stuff. Okay, what lights do you use in your studio? I usually use like Godox, godox, yeah. Yeah, in Asia maybe we prefer use Godox or maybe these, these are Godox, yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:43

Godox yeah, 10 years lights are probably the best things I've ever bought.

Speaker 2: 53:46

Yeah, yeah and this is maybe cheaper, I guess. So cheap Godox, what is like PL, pl to have, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:54

PL to have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I mean a lot of continuous lights will just get hard, or they'll time out, or you know, noisy, a noisy like can't even hear this.

Speaker 2: 54:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you shoot projects with continuous or flash?

Speaker 1: 54:08

Sometimes, yeah, like we don't have a, we don't have a studio location, but in the studio it's so much easier just to use continuous light because you can see the light I always recommend people to use. If they have continuous light or if they have a model light on their flash, use that before you use the flash If you've got enough ambient light, because then you can see the light move, right. Yeah yeah, it's just so much easier. You can see the shadow.

Speaker 2: 54:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah Cool.

Speaker 1: 54:39

Um, on this podcast, we have a tradition where the previous guest writes a question for the next guest without knowing who the next guest is. So I did a podcast with Alex Stroll, um a few days ago actually, and he wrote a question. So I'm going to ask it to you and you can answer it. Um, pretty simple actually. Um, what makes you happy and why what?

Speaker 2: 55:04

makes me happy.

Speaker 1: 55:07

Not just photography, just that. And it could be photography. Could be family could be drinking.

Speaker 2: 55:13

I think happy is like maybe like the worst that that it will be different every every year. Like maybe this year this thing made me happy, this, maybe another year this thing made me happy, but, um, but today what makes me happy is when I can choose to do what I want to do. Like maybe I don't want to do work right now or tomorrow, so I will have just like in my bed and then doing like my guitar and stuff. So the opportunity to choose what I want to do is what makes me happy right now. So I think I will try my best to have that condition, To have that condition so when I don't have to work when I don't want to, that makes me happy.

Speaker 1: 56:10

I was reading an article the other day. That's my dream as well. Just get to a point where you can, you have money freedom, but also time freedom, and you just go. I don't want to do that today, or I want to do this today and you're able to go and do it.

Speaker 2: 56:24

Yeah, for the first like maybe like 13 years in my past life. In my life, I guess, I'm constantly chasing like I don't know chasing money or chasing success, I don't know. So when I have like one day I can do whatever I want, and then I have no stress in my mind. That's simple, happy.

Speaker 1: 56:55

So does that mean, if you get to that point, would you consider yourself successful?

Speaker 2: 57:02

I think successful is when you can inspire people. Yeah, maybe you can do stuff and then people, and that makes impact to other people. That's why that's what success, I guess.

Speaker 1: 57:16

Means to you.

Speaker 2: 57:17

Yeah for me when you do stuff and then people will have some positive impact for that and you're also happy doing that, Maybe that's successful.

Speaker 1: 57:30

Excellent answer, I love it. Well, I'm sure you've inspired many people watching this, and I hope so. I'm going to finish this with one more question and this is really for me and then I'm going to get you to write on here your question for the next guest, and I guess it's along the similar lines of what we've just talked about. But my question would be what would constitute a perfect day for you? Perfect day, wake up, have a coffee. Coffee has to be first.

Speaker 2: 58:00

Yeah, yeah coffee. I do like coffee, but perfect day for me. So back in July I met my girlfriend and then, from now on, what makes me happy is what makes her happy. Oh, no, so I mean my four months relationship right now.

Speaker 1: 58:23

So she's all in my mind right now. That's sweet. Is she with you and Bali?

Speaker 2: 58:28

No, no, she's working in Jakarta.

Speaker 1: 58:30

So a perfect day for you would be whatever your girlfriend wants to do.

Speaker 2: 58:35

Yeah, perfect day is when I can make her happy in that day and whatever she wants I can get it, and that's what makes it perfect.

Speaker 1: 58:43

Don't get any ideas. Perfect day what a wonderful.

Speaker 2: 58:47

Do I have to write a question for next guest?

Speaker 1: 58:49

Yes, once we go off air we won't obviously tell people a question. But yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 59:01

Sorry, I know you're English, I hope you get what I mean. Very, very good. Is there anything?

Speaker 1: 59:06

you want to say to the Indonesian audience in.

Speaker 2: 59:08

Bahasa.

Speaker 1: 59:09

Because you can, if not, that's cool.

Speaker 2: 59:13

Oh, this is funny. Like, maybe like two months ago I got a job to shoot for Tony Blair's.

Speaker 1: 59:20

Oh wow, Maybe you can. The English ex-prime minister of the UK.

Speaker 2: 59:27

He has like an organization in Indonesia, and then the previous photographer cannot speak in English at all. So I got a job because my friends recommend me to the agency, so you can contact Anas. He can speak English not well, but it's okay. So I got a job just because I can speak English. So learn English, don't afraid to talk to English, because you will understand right. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:57

What.

Speaker 2: 59:57

I'm saying just don't think about grammar and anything, People will understand. As long as you have something in your mind, just speak it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:06

Yeah, speak it, and the more you speak, the more you learn, yeah, the more you practice. I have not had a friend to practice, maybe you want to be my friend to practice in English? You've been brilliant, english has been excellent.

Speaker 2: 1:00:20

I will call you every night to practice my English like one hour per day. Yeah, no, no, no, not one hour.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

Well, thank you very much. Let's see if I can say some words Thank you, thank you, assalamualaikum, assalamualaikum, assalamualaikum, and see you again soon. See you again soon, you will see me very soon. Yes, I'm sure. Thank you very much, thank you, thank you.