Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
I'm excited to release this special episode celebrating the launch of my new brand 'Yoreh'. Together with my business partner, and this episode's guest, Fin Matson, we introduce the new label and invite you to join our discussion on the art of intention and embracing imperfection in art generally. With yoreh, you'll discover the intriguing connection between art, specialty coffee, jewellery and community, all under our roof of the innovative 'House of Yoreh'.
We of course did talk a lot about photography and Fin's journey throughout 2023 since we last spoke earlier in the year. He sheds light on his experience in the monochromatic realm and how it impacts his work. We also discussed the stress of balancing personal and commercial projects and the challenges of capturing the perfect shot under difficult lighting conditions, and working with friends on professional shoots. We've got first-hand experiences to share!
We wrapped up with a critical look at the current photography styles and standards in the digital age. We discuss some thought-provoking insights on the influence of social media and AI on the industry as well as Fin's recent transition from photography to entrepreneurship. Discover his experiences and learnings as he shares his journey of establishing our own jewellery brand, Yoreh.
Check out the links and description below for Yoreh and a discount code for your first purchase(s) with the label.
Enjoy!
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
I'm excited to release this special episode celebrating the launch of my new brand 'Yoreh'. Together with my business partner, and this episode's guest, Fin Matson, we introduce the new label and invite you to join our discussion on the art of intention and embracing imperfection in art generally. With yoreh, you'll discover the intriguing connection between art, specialty coffee, jewellery and community, all under our roof of the innovative 'House of Yoreh'.
We of course did talk a lot about photography and Fin's journey throughout 2023 since we last spoke earlier in the year. He sheds light on his experience in the monochromatic realm and how it impacts his work. We also discussed the stress of balancing personal and commercial projects and the challenges of capturing the perfect shot under difficult lighting conditions, and working with friends on professional shoots. We've got first-hand experiences to share!
We wrapped up with a critical look at the current photography styles and standards in the digital age. We discuss some thought-provoking insights on the influence of social media and AI on the industry as well as Fin's recent transition from photography to entrepreneurship. Discover his experiences and learnings as he shares his journey of establishing our own jewellery brand, Yoreh.
Check out the links and description below for Yoreh and a discount code for your first purchase(s) with the label.
Enjoy!
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
Kind of like a launch podcast, I guess for your age, all right, there's more to come, though.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a lot more to come. Yeah, how's the Fiora concept?
Speaker 1:is what does this have to do with photography? The more I talk about this, the more I get heart palpitations.
Speaker 2:I don't want to speak about it too much, because it's also, like still you know, a little surprise, I guess.
Speaker 1:What constitutes a good photo? Your color black right. It's a huge challenge, for sure. I think intention is is absolutely everything.
Speaker 2:I wasn't making, just saying now I'm actually becoming a photographer.
Speaker 1:The best photographers in the world. Even today, they don't do that. If you look back on that now, what would you do differently if anything Goes into like the dirty and imperfectness of imperfection? Imperfectness, imperfection is an imperfection. Why did that?
Speaker 2:mindset change. Something happened to me when I arrived in Ireland.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, before I let you continue with the video, just indulge me for a few minutes. I want to briefly talk about my new brand, yore. Founded with my business partner and photographic artist, finn Mattson, we're proud to bring you a new artisanal jewelry and specialty coffee brand Yep. What on earth do they have to do with each other, or anything at all? Well, they're both our passions. They've always been another artistic outlet for me, now for over a decade. So, for those that know me, coffee is being my other obsession since I was young and as a result of it, I'm a qualified SCA coffee specialist. So when I met Finn some of you might have seen my podcast with him when we barely knew each other Our love for art and jewelry had a home, and that home is here House of Yore.
Speaker 1:Yore is, amongst others, an artisan jewelry label, and it's all about the art of intent for everything that we do. Our intention with Yore was to add a touch of celestial elegance and artistic expression to our visual narratives. Every jewelry piece is a statement, a reflection of your unique story and purpose. It's not just about jewelry, it's a wearable piece of art that speaks volumes. Picture this Silver or gold are dawned with an actual piece of lunar meteorite that's right straight from our moon, making every piece as unique as the moments that we usually capture through our lenses. From limited edition lunar jewelry pieces to finely crafted 925 sterling silver and gold rings, pendants and chains is something for all of you.
Speaker 1:In our unique designs, we're also committed to the environment as much as possible. Our coffee is direct trade, organically produced and locally farmed, minimizing impact on the environment as much as possible. Our jewelry packaging is all sustainable and recycled other than the moonrock, of course Proudly eco-friendly in both packaging and jewelry production. You can feel good about looking good At the top of it off. We offer free worldwide shipping, ensuring that a piece of lunar beauty can grace your collection no matter where life takes you. And if you ever find yourself here in Bali, please come and visit us. Our cafe and community-driven art house is a haven for creatives just like you. So before we head back into the video, please just take a moment to explore Yore's collection. And, as a special treat for you, my one-foot audience Yore is offering an exclusive discount. Head over to our website and use the code below for a 10% discount of your jewelry purchase. The link and details are in the description. Anyway, thanks so much for listening, and I'll let you get back to the video now.
Speaker 2:What's that thing? By the way, Is it like an iPad or this?
Speaker 1:This is remarkable. Remarkable is basically a digital notepad, but it's way more than that. I think about it like what are they called? Like a writable Kindle?
Speaker 2:You know Kindle right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I read a lot there's no electric screen, there's no blue light and it's just black and white. But it's great for, like, annotating PDFs, doing journals, just making notes, and obviously you don't have to carry around a whole pad of paper and stuff.
Speaker 2:So yes.
Speaker 1:I use it for everything. I should really get sponsored by them. Good idea, can I have a look at it? Yeah, mate, magnetic pen just attaches to the side, like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, I love that it's not like a blue light screen, yeah yeah, so that's why I like it, like an iPad, it actually looks like paper.
Speaker 1:And if the whole MO was to make it feel like you're writing on paper, which you can still kind of feel a difference, but compared to like a screen, an electric screen yeah, I mean, this is electronic, but you know what I mean. Yeah, you can actually change the pen type and it actually feels different, feels like you're writing on paper.
Speaker 2:But it's incredible technology.
Speaker 1:Cool man, I should check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, check it out, remarkablecom. It's great for any kind of shoots as well. You know, if you have like a shot list on there and just can tick it off or quickly write something.
Speaker 1:I use this more for photography than anything else, because it's like PDFs, briefs, mood boards and just ideas like video ideas, shot ideas. You can put photos on here as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean obviously there's not color anything, but you can like make notes.
Speaker 1:If you're like teaching someone, you can bring a photo up and you can write. You know how you see like reels of videos where people scratch. You know right on the screen like highlights you know you can do that as well. It's pretty fucking cool.
Speaker 2:I love it. Yeah, man, I need one of those. I write, so I love writing with my hand, like I'm just really slow at writing on the computer as well.
Speaker 1:So and scientifically, more goes in if you actually write it down rather than make a note on your I know why I didn't know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, true, yeah. Anyway, what we do Podcasts. Finn Mattson, you are the first guest to come back on the Mood podcast, but for a very special reason. I mean, people watching this will see that the environment's a bit different. We are in, I guess, since we last met and not since we last met. Since we first met, which I guess would be nearly 18 months ago now. You came on the podcast about nine months ago.
Speaker 2:I think it was in March. Yeah, it was in March.
Speaker 1:So we're now December, so, yeah, about nine months We've gone into business together. So do you want to share kind of that story with the people watching? Explain kind of where we are, why we're not in the Mood studio.
Speaker 2:I'd love to so. Yes, yo-ray is, in short, a jewelry label, but it's also so much more. It's art, it's a community, it's a place for people to come together and cry together as well. I've been thinking about it, last night, actually, and I think it actually started like a really long time for me. I remember I was like 10 or 11 and my grandma took me to a Silver Smith course, so I made my first ring when I was 11. Actually, my two rings I might want for my first girlfriend back then and I might want for myself, and I was wearing it as a necklace and she was wearing it on a thing. I was cute and what was it? But it was literally just a ring, just a ring. Yeah, it didn't look very special. I mean, it was the first ring.
Speaker 1:I ever made you were 10. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's when I first got into that a little bit, when I first got into wearing jewelry myself and thanks to my grandma, actually, because she really pushed me into that direction. She's an artist herself as well In terms of painting, pottery, photography, making her own jewelry, things like that. So I'm very glad to have her to put me into that direction. So that's when it kind of started for me personally, and I think the idea of having a brand kept on going over the years. So when I was 16, I started something again. I tried to start my own clothing brand again with my grandma. So she was literally helping me to buy the right material. She was sewing it for me together. We were kind of building it together. We made like I don't know 50 hoodies or whatever. It all failed in the end. But it's like kind of a good point to like when I kind of feel like everything started and it kept on being a dream of mine to like build a community around that and like build my own brand, a label.
Speaker 2:Last year, when I moved to Bali, I feel like many things changed for me, especially in terms of mindset and how I feel, and also in terms of business. I felt like I want to expand, I want to do more things. I do not just want to do photography, I want to be more like an entrepreneur and try different things. And yeah, it was something I always wanted to do. But finally last year I was like let's stop fucking around, you know, like let's just do it. What can happen? I can fail, yeah, but that's the only thing that could go wrong, right, or at least I know I tried it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and then I met you and I think we didn't even speak about it in the last podcast, but we had a little chat afterwards and I mentioned to you that you know, I kind of started a jewelry brand, or I'm exploring the idea, I'm trying to design and make my first few pieces and see how it goes. And I don't even think you said too much about it. It was more, like you know, like it was like small talk, just a little bit about that. But then, yeah, a few months later which I'm very glad about you asked me out for lunch. I thought you wanted to have like a little date or something. Wow, my turn.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we actually started talking more about the jewelry and you were really interested in knowing what it's all about, because you yourself are very you're an artist first of all, but you're also wearing always a lot of jewelry. You like jewelry and yeah, that's how it all started with us, I guess. And yeah, like six months later, not less four months later.
Speaker 1:I guess I didn't even know when that lunch was, but it was like.
Speaker 2:July or August.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess it must have been yeah.
Speaker 2:So now we're sitting here at the House of Ure, so what's that?
Speaker 1:Explain just kind of the house of Ure concept.
Speaker 2:House of Ure concept is it's an art house first of all. It's a place for people to get together, to create together, to talk about art, to talk about the jewelry, to talk about photography. Hopefully there will be exhibitions in the future or like workshops, any kind of these things. So first of all, it's for us, a place for the community, but it also is a specialty coffee place and it's a showroom for our jewelry. And we also have, like the Ure studio upstairs, which is a photography studio to rent with any kind of equipment you want.
Speaker 1:Basically, this is the best concept ever.
Speaker 2:Pretty much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for people listening, I mean, we this used to be my office, right, so this I'm not sure if we ever showed the office on any of my channels, but we decided to. We wanted a different outlet for the jewelry, right. That's kind of where it came about. But me being, I guess, stubborn and but obsessed with coffee from a young age, I always, always dreamt of having my specialty coffee place, and now, I guess, kind of do but it just fit, didn't it? Like you know hopefully you know, before this podcast, people would have the opportunity to see the website and, you know, see a little video about it. But the jewelry, the way we display it here, as well as the photography, I mean, we sat here with with essentially your art on the walls and which is for sale, but more just to experience, right, sit here and experience it. So I think it all goes together and that's what we wanted, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Just art at the center, right, for sure Art at the center and everything else kind of feeds into that. Was that always a concept you had in mind? Because it sounds like the the jewelry, came before photography, and photography was maybe an easy outlet for you because it just meant getting a camera and going out shooting right and learning how to shoot, rather than like trying to find investment for big jewelry brands and stuff like that. Was that how it came about? Well, at least was that the order, should I say.
Speaker 2:It definitely was the order 100% and yeah, that's definitely the right order and I think I mean it all comes back to art right. In the end it was just easier for me to pursue photography. It wasn't that easy either, but like it was easier to pursue that rather than like building a brand that's so much more connected to it. But, yeah, that's definitely it and I think a lot in terms of mindset as well. I feel like building something like that, a label, and like the community around it and over the products and the house and everything it's so much. But like I feel like it always felt, like I probably can't make it right. So I think that big mindset change I had last year really like put me into that of like now, man, you can do it if you want it. You know I've already built something similar in terms of my photography and I hate calling it a business, but like my photography community pretty much. So what would stop me of doing it again, right?
Speaker 1:And then, why did that mindset change? Was it Bali or people?
Speaker 2:It definitely was Bali, man, and, like, something happened to me when I arrived on that island I don't know what you want to call it the energy here, maybe it's the people, maybe I don't know what it is but something changed for me which I actually don't have words for.
Speaker 2:Yeah like my mindset became so much better, like I'm so much happier I do things I'm not just talking about, then I'm not fucking around. You know, like if I have an idea, if I want to do something same for photography if I want to create a shoot, or if I want to create something, I do it. Well, before I was a little bit more, like you know, had quite a lot of fear of things, where like a little bit hesitant towards some some things. So, yeah, I cannot tell you what it is, but there's something about that island which changes me, and I know many other people have a very similar experience about this island. Maybe I mean for, like you as well, I guess you know and maybe it's the people as well, you know, being surrounded by so many creatives, by so many entrepreneurs that chasing their dreams and they're not, you know, being scared of failing. So I think, yeah, it's a very special place.
Speaker 1:It does change. I mean, the amount of people who say the same thing, especially, I guess, younger people who are a bit more like in search of something. But it, you know, definitely changed us as well. I think it can be known as, like the field of dreams. It's also cheaper to live here, right? So if you're pursuing something, you can probably pursue it for twice as long without getting in the same kind of financial issues, right? So that helps Time and money.
Speaker 1:The energy here is definitely from a cynical person like me. There is something here that I don't know. Inspires, encourages, develops an individual or group of people.
Speaker 2:It is incredible 100% and I'm fascinated by how it connects people as well. You know, like you and me are the best example, but I know so many examples of similar experiences from other people or even for me. You know, like meeting like the right videographer to create something to get, or meeting like local people, like last year I shot a film about a local guy called Dodok. He's a stunt driver, so I love motorbikes. Like you know, where in the world do you find someone that's just keen to create things like that? You know Models, business partners, like I think this island is really connecting people on a great level and there's not many other places in the world where it's such an amount of creative people. They're all keen to make something happen, right.
Speaker 1:On the flip side. Have you found it different or difficult to actually do business here? You know, like suppliers, vendors, creditors, customers, idea. You know, making an idea instead of creating an idea and putting it into a visual medium like photography, like creating an idea and putting it into like physical medium. Right, how have you found that?
Speaker 2:It's a huge challenge, for sure. Not saying that I don't enjoy the process, because I think there's things, a lot of things were happening there. Nothing really worked out at the beginning, but it all put us on the right path, right. So I feel that comes back again to that energy here. Like things might not work out straight away, but it actually will put you on the right path and create maybe something even better. You know, even in terms of like jewelry production or like designs and stuff like that. There's definitely been a few problems with that, but, like, in the end, I think it's working out very well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're behind schedule a little bit, but for good reasons, I guess it's kind of worked out for the right reason.
Speaker 2:We're trying to make Christmas. That's it and, like you know, in a year or two we're going to look back at that and be like oh do you remember the first? Few months when we started and everything was late and nothing worked out and like. But right now we're learning so much. It's actually insane how much we're learning, you know from, like, having employees designing jewelry, building a label. In the end, right, there's so much connected Like fuck.
Speaker 1:We can talk about it for days probably, but yeah, it's difficult on this show to talk, you know, to talk too much about your a. I guess, because you know I don't want to people might be watching this and going, well, what does this have to do with me and what does this have to do with photography? But it actually has everything to do with photography, right I A, from the inception of your a, was purely art and photography. From your, from your skills and experience of photography, but now it's still photography that kind of holds all the glue together, or at least art. You know, when you sit down and conceive a new jewelry piece, like you're, you're, you're thinking in a photographic way, you're thinking in an artistic way, and the same with everything we do here.
Speaker 1:But for the purposes of, I guess, this episode, why should people continue watching this? We're going to just be. I mean, we're going to talk about your a, we're going to talk about a few different elements of your a, but we're also going to talk about photography. Right, I think you know we're going to talk about your trip to get all the you know people seeing the website. This is all Finn getting content in in America, in Hong Kong, in Bali, around the world. So we obviously going to talk about that. I really want to hear about it. But, you know, talk. Talk to the people out there like why should they care about your a?
Speaker 2:I mean, photography is art, right, and, and photography is self expression. In my opinion, like, like, if I go out and I do a shoot, let's put the commercial side away. But, like, if you do like a personal shoot, you want to express something, right, you want to express your feelings or whatever it is, and I think jewelry is something very similar. I mean clothing as well, you know, like, how you look in the end is like self expression. That's how you convey a message about you to other people, right? So I don't think there's much of a difference. It's both self self expression and being able to wear a piece of art, which I think our jewelry is, because there's so much effort in the designs and like everything, right. So I think, yeah, that's, that's just part of it. And again, we're not just building a jewelry label, we're building. We want to like, inspire people and motivate them to create in any kind of way. Right, this jewelry could be part of your next shoot because, like you know, it suits the environment, or like it could be part of your painting. Or you know, like there's so many things, and especially if we get a little bit closer into, like the products itself, like they're very special and there's like, for example, we have one line which has moon rock in it Luna meteorites so it's extremely special. That's, you're literally wearing a piece of our moon, which I personally find extremely inspiring.
Speaker 2:First of all, I have a big connection to the moon myself, but just being able to wear something like that, I think is very unique and and it's inspiring, right, yeah, so, yeah, like like that also goes back to quite a long time ago for me, for example, just telling you a little bit of a backstory, I was living in Sydney and I didn't really have much to shoot, right. It was like that was probably six months from me. All I was doing was like planning for like three weeks where I shoot the next full moon, because I had to work at like a day job but then couldn't really do much more things than that, and that became almost a thing that made me even like survive these six months. You know, to like keep my mind fairly like good, without like going too crazy with like doing some pretty shitty work and stuff. So for me now, actually like like the moon just been in that journey all the time, right From photography to knowledge, jewelry, so I think that's very special and I hope that's inspiring for people.
Speaker 1:So tell us briefly about the jewelry side of your rate. So what you know? What do we sell? You mentioned moonrock, lunar meteorites. What kind of items do we sell, in what materials, and what were the thought processes behind? I guess each design or the collection? Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think it all started with the lunar meteorites, with the moonrock rings, because, again, as I mentioned before, I feel disconnection to the moon and it's something I've never really seen before, so I thought it would be cool just to do one for myself. That's how it actually started, like a little bit more than a year ago. So that's part of our first collection. There's going to be two pieces, which is a ring with a lunar meteorite, two rings with lunar meteorites and two pendants as well, and alongside that we have another 12 pieces rings and pendants. They're all.
Speaker 2:I think their designs are all related to some things from my life. For example, one is like the dragonfly ring, which is my favorite animal. You know, like I have a dragonfly tattoo here, you got one too now as well, and all of them are produced in 925 recycled silver. So we're really trying to be sustainable with that as well. Try to know where all our products come from, making sure that the people are fairly paid and that it's all good in that direction. Same for our packaging. We actually, instead of having plastic or paper packaging, we're doing ceramic boxes which the ring comes in, which is cool in two ways, because people can just keep it and reuse it and not throw it away. I'm going to see now, because that's what usually happens with the packaging. And on top of that, we also have the same collection, but in gold, which is gold plated with 24 karat gold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there's more to come, though, right.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a lot more to come yeah.
Speaker 1:So if people want to check those out, they can definitely go to the website. What do you know in terms of the branding? Let's say and this is good insights for photographers who want to develop their style or learn about maybe your style or how you're a brand ourselves, and what the concepts are behind that, whether they're cinematic, dreamy, there's definitely some underlying themes there, with the jewelry and the content and the coffee and the house, et cetera. Tell us a little bit about you. Know, before, a few months ago, you had to go to. You didn't have to. We chose that you would go to LA, hong Kong, bali, to give a bit more of a wider array of, I guess, content, right? People?
Speaker 2:models.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. Or other words, to use Content, get content, we got to use it. I guess it's content. Yeah, tell us about that trip and what you're trying to do with the URA branding and the URA art.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that trip was, I mean, the first trip for URA and it's the first time I'm personally shooting for it as well, which was super exciting. We did one week in LA and three days in Hong Kong. My good friend, our good friend, chris, joined us as a videographer while I was directing Chris Clay's. Chris Clay's yeah, check him out on Instagram.
Speaker 1:He's really good with. He's really good with Roger Ampat Reels. That's it yeah.
Speaker 2:That's his niche, you know, I bless him.
Speaker 1:Sorry, Chris Love you, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, like, I was directing, shooting photos and he was shooting video. Another friend, elliot, joined as well for a few days to shoot some more video. The idea was to really like try to capture what I feel about the brand, right, how I feel about the brand. So we had multiple days of shooting different models, different things to shoot. For example, we shot like a motorbike in the desert, we shot a rooftop in Hong Kong, we shot in a studio in LA. So we have like a huge diversity of different locations, different people, but all of these people are artists themselves. So, for example, another shoot we did in LA was shooting with Andre, who is a professional skateboarder, and it's actually the first time ever that I shoot and I'm really going with the flow.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I had a plan, but I really wanted to capture that artist and his environment and what he's good at doing, right, I didn't want him to like post too much or you know, like, yeah, like I just really wanted him to be him, and that turned out absolutely great, like the footage and images we could capture feel extremely authentic, but also very dreamy, very nostalgic, very artsy.
Speaker 2:So and I think that really aligns with the brand plus, just having these special people in it is great as well. Obviously, they're wearing the jewelry, but we didn't try to make the jewelry the main part of it. We didn't try to make the person, the artist's main part of it, and the jewelry is like a side thing of that right, and I think that's something really want to continue doing as well, like, first of all, supporting other artists and creating with them, or maybe we get them to create in the future or where it's going to go. So, yeah, I can't wait to put that all out and show it to the world, what we created, and I hope it's going to be inspirational and motivational as well.
Speaker 1:By the time this episode comes out. Well, we're not going to put this episode out without the website and everything else up, but the links will be in the description, so check it out. But everywhere we talk about art of intent. Right, that's kind of what we've decided to, I guess. Give a slogan or catchphrase or whatever an attacking label you want to put on it, but do you want to explain a little bit about the thought process behind that? The art of intent, for sure.
Speaker 2:I mean, for all of my photography, it's always been intention being a big thing. Like I always really had the intention of, for example, express my feelings through a shoot I do, or like I didn't just want to go out to shoot for the sake of shooting, right. Like I wanted an intention and I think that goes into all of the jewelry as well Like why are we doing that? Why, what does that piece itself mean? You know, for example, the moonrock piece is like it means so much. It's like a connection to a moon. You can actually wear a piece of the moon in a beautiful design. So, like the intention behind that is like to, you know, inspire people and like connect them with our nature, pretty much because the moon is kind of nature as well. Right, and the same for the house.
Speaker 2:Like everything in here has so much intention. Like you know, we have this couch here because not because we want many people to sit here and buy coffee we want to have this right. We want people to have a conversation about the photos on the wall, which are right now mine, but maybe in the future we have exhibitions from other people, or talk about the jewelry that's right here, or just have a chat or plan a shoot or plan painting together, or so. That's that's the intention behind that right. Same for the coffee. Like the coffee is not here for the sake of the coffee. The coffee is here because it connects people, and that's the intention that we have with the entire label to build that community, to connect people, to inspire people, to motivate people and to create together in the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, the creation side of it runs through literally everything. I think that's where you and I kind of hit it off so well, because all we want to do is just make stuff. That's it Like, yeah, and the business side of things and I've had this for years I just get so I mean, we're both, both have different strengths and weaknesses, but I, generally speaking, we just both can't stand like they're doing the business stuff. So it's absolutely necessary. Of course it is, but you know, if we could just create and get paid, paid, just make stuff all day, brilliant, I mean. But it's easy said and done, but it goes with everything.
Speaker 1:You know the coffee is taking up. I guess it takes up half this room, if that maybe a third of it, but it's, that's the focal point really. You know, we have the jewelry here, we have the art, we have kind of accessories and peripherals, but people will mostly come in to be connected with something. But, like you said, the community is super important and people being able to. By the way, this is not a podcast couch, right? This is we're going to move everything out so people can actually sit here and chill and drink coffee. But the coffee is an expression of our creation and, you know, when it comes to the jewelry and photography, that's probably more your end when it comes to, you know, the studio and the coffee is kind of more my end. We kind of meet somewhere in the middle and the coffee is is. People don't quite understand this and I'm looking forward to actually conversing with people about it, about how, how much art there is involved, how much creation there is involved with, especially with specialty coffee, because it's direct from that.
Speaker 1:You have a relationship with the bean itself, that, the actual seed that gets planted. You know exactly where that is, on what hill, and you know exactly what process it goes through. You have a relationship with a farmer. So every step of the way from bean to cup, without you know throwing another catchphrase in there, we have full creative freedom over it. And that, for me, is like, oh, it's just just amazing.
Speaker 1:It is like a photographic process where you're like, okay, come up with a concept, what do you want to express? So, for you, when it comes to the brand and you mentioned it when you were talking I think this is really important, especially for newbies and people. You know, I know loads of people look at your art, right, and want to shoot like you. So can you just give us a little bit more detail about you talked about how you wanted to shoot, the way you feel about the brand, right? Can you dive a little bit deeper into that? Like, maybe don't give us technical stuff, maybe you can, but in terms of your thought process, when you're out there in the desert in LA, you know how are you feeling, what do you want to feel about this brand, what do you want others to feel about this brand and how do you feel about this brand and how does that go into from your brain through to the lens, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so using the example of being in the desert outside of LA, for example, it's you know I really wanted to feel like what I felt there was freedom, and I really wanted to put that freedom, freedom into my images as well.
Speaker 2:And it was and that's that's still really new for me, because usually I'm like or at least I used to be quite technical about my shoots. I really, like, you know, make sure my settings are all good and all these things you know, but this time it was just, yeah, I was really like trying to capture that moment with that artist instead of trying to, you know, name my settings or even like my composition or so many things I like almost didn't really give a shit about. These images turned out so beautifully, like not perfect at all, but I feel like really that's what we want with that brand as well, because the jewelry is not perfect. It's raw, you know it's, it's, it's rough, it's like, you know, not every ring is the same. Comes to the moonrock, for example, like each ring X actually will be different than another one because the moonrock moonrock will look different.
Speaker 2:So I really tried to have that in the in the images as well. It was a beautiful process to shoot like that and like come away a little bit from that perfectionism and go more into like actually feeling, and that has been a beautiful journey in my life in general over the last few years from like becoming a photographer, you know like being so extremely obsessed with like shooting the perfect image, and then I kind of hit that point that I I mean that sounds a little arrogant, but like can shoot that perfect image. And you know what I fucking hate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like, I feel nothing.
Speaker 2:I look at literally like I look at these images and I'm like cool, that's clean, that's perfect, composition is awesome, light is awesome, everything is just totally on point and it makes me feel nothing. So it's beautiful to see that, to step back from that and like go into a different direction. And same again. Fertility, as well. You know, instead of like having that perfect, beautiful, the mate ring, I way more prefer like a handmade, raw, you know, a little bit mad ring instead of like having that perfect thing there, right, because it just it feels more true, it feels more real, it feels more authentic and that's how it all aligns with each other. Right, it's not much difference between the process of photography and the process of jewelry, and the beautiful thing is something that I've been learning here right now. The same goes for coffee Like actually the process of producing a jewelry piece in the process of getting that cup of coffee.
Speaker 1:if you look at it from the start to the beginning, it's very very similar, very, very similar, and the same with things like wine, I mean, you could pick any, you could pick. You could pick a type of food you could pick. Well, you could pick a cuisine, should we say. You could pick many types of drinks. You could pick architecture, you could pick.
Speaker 1:You know all of these kind of artistic outlets. The problem that coffee has and has to battle and we're going to have to battle here is that most people just know coffee as like Starbucks or Nespresso that they get in the home right, or just instant coffee or filtered coffee that they buy ground in supermarkets, being sat there for at least a month.
Speaker 1:You know, like there is an element and I like to do that with photography as well like a little bit of education. I definitely don't know everything, of course, but if we educate through this kind of medium whether it's photography, jewelry, coffee, anything we'll also learn along the way, right, and that's where that imperfection comes in. We both find that difficult. It's like this is not right, this is not good enough, this is not right, and I think that's important for beginner photographers or amateur photographers to understand is like do what you know, do what you love, right. And that doesn't have to be perfect and it's all a process and as long as you can find a way to enjoy that process, which is difficult, very difficult sometimes, but if you can find a way to enjoy that process, that's everything, 100%.
Speaker 2:I think like, yeah, like the process itself. And I think we're both like process people, right, if we wouldn't make it about the end product, if that was the only goal, then all of this wouldn't be how it is right. And I love to see that in the photography as well, because that's exactly how it started for me, right To like, I wasn't a process person, I was the one that like, chase, that one photo that's so perfect and I wasn't happy until I had that thing. But now I'm shooting, as, in terms of like, I love the process of, you know, shooting it, creating it. I don't care too much about the end product. And same for the jewelry, right? Like the process of actually designing your own piece, making the first molds, making the first samples, you know like going back and forth.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's so insane, it's so much.
Speaker 2:but the process of it is beautiful, right? And in the end, that's what it's all about, right, Like you got to enjoy that process, otherwise there's no point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's, I think it's everything. Actually. I think that how many times do we get a finished product, whether it's a photo or piece of jewelry, and go, yeah, it's great. Next, like what we, you know we wanted to do.
Speaker 2:You're right away wanting something, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to start anew, or want to continue with the process that's ongoing with something else, and I think it's it kind of clashes with trying to just live in the moment and enjoy things as they come, because you don't want to always try to be thinking 10 steps ahead. Yeah, I guess that's kind of the buzz as well right For sure, man, like it's.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's such an interesting topic and I'm just learning it all for myself. I feel like I'm in the middle of really understanding the process and so many aspects of my life. But it's beautiful, man, you know, because once you actually get there and you really enjoy the process, like you know, it literally puts you in that moment. It puts you in that moment that you're on a shoot and you're shooting that artist in the desert and you don't care about the light too much, you don't care about the composition too much or whatever. You're just like you're really in there, and then you can see that in the images. In the end, you know, like you can see that that photographer was like there. He was feeling that, you know, rather than just getting that one perfect photo.
Speaker 1:That's why intention is so important, and even the intention could just be I'm going to see what happens today With no plan. That's still an intention. People think that you have to, you know, be so focused on a plan and this, and that Sometimes it just if you've got a creative flow going and you don't need to always have that right. That's it. Do you prefer to be? Because we've shot together a lot in the studio as well, you know, I always like to hear if people are more interested or enjoy more of like that confined control, more controlled environment, or if they like to be kind of out and about. Do you, do you have a preference? Is that your go-to is like out and about in the desert, on the streets?
Speaker 2:I mean it's like a comfort zone thing, right, like obviously it's. It's it feels great to shoot in the studio or like with like controlled environment right, because it just makes it so much easier, instead of standing in a desert where it's like it's so windy you almost can't stand, like all the dust is flowing in your eyes, like it's really hard, you know, but it's a beautiful feeling. And then you ended like it has to do a little bit, with like letting go. You know you need to let go of that like perfect shot you want to get and just like go with the flow. And that's exactly what we did on that trip.
Speaker 2:And yeah, again, it was a beautiful process. Even things like you know me shooting in the middle of the day. You know I shot at like 12 pm, sun straight down, like like horrible light theoretically, but it just like, if you change that perspective and make it about the process right, about the end product, like things like that suddenly doesn't matter anymore because the artist I was shooting was in his element, I was in the element and we created some awesome stuff together and the light didn't even matter too much anymore, right.
Speaker 1:I think that's really important. I think people you know even me I've always emphasized the importance of golden out photography because it makes certainly beginners and amateurs it's their life easier, right, Because the light is kind of doing a lot of the work for you. But I think to really go up a level, you've got to force yourself to be able to shoot in any time of day, Right, that's it. I think that's when you really know that your good photography is beyond a good shot.
Speaker 1:You've got to change your mindset, you've got to change your technical outlook, you've got to change, probably, your concepts in general, but I think that's super important. Certainly, I'm working on it as well. It's just so difficult and it's easy to give up, so I don't like shit.
Speaker 2:It likes you, hard For sure, man, and you have a beautiful sunset happening. Yeah, of course the image is going to look cool, but actually trying new things and shooting it in the middle of the day and maybe do some slow shutter and make it black and white afterwards or whatever there's so many ways to explore. I totally get it. I still love sunsets and sunrises. I still think it's beautiful to shoot, but especially if you have a little bit of time brush as well. Sometimes you just got to make the most out of things as well. We were in LA just for a week. I didn't want to sit around all day and just shoot at night.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to have that experience and connect with the artists and shoot.
Speaker 1:What would you do differently? People watching and listening. This might be embarking on a personal project or it might be a commercial project. Hopefully it's a commercial product If you look back on that trip, which is very different because it's kind of a commercial product but it's like your own commercial project and obviously I couldn't come with you. But I'm going to be seeing these first. I'm going. They're fucking shit or they're amazing. Of course they're amazing, but do you know what I mean? If you look back on that now, you still had a lot. I know because I spoke to you every day. You had a lot of pressure on you for you put a lot on yourself, obviously because you're a true artist. I think that's important as well. But if you look back on that now, what would you do differently, if anything, on the whole trip?
Speaker 2:Good question. I think I wouldn't do anything different. To be honest, I'm pretty.
Speaker 1:Really. I've seen the photo, I've seen the photo I've seen the photo. I've seen the photo.
Speaker 2:I don't think I would do anything differently. It was just like I feel like I should have probably been a little bit nicer to myself because, like, like man, at least 10 days I barely slept. I like barely ate.
Speaker 2:It was like like exhausting due to the shooting, but also putting so much pressure on yourself Because, as you said, yes, it was a commercial project, but it was also my own commercial project and I hope none of my clients listening right now but like it's still a little bit more pressure than like, if you're shooting commercially for someone, right, because I knew everything I do will build the brand right now, like it's so important, like there's no, yeah, there's no way around that.
Speaker 2:And then it also was like two of my good friends with me that I kind of had to direct and like make sure they they're not fucking around or whatever, you know, like that we're actually getting what we want to get, which isn't easy, you know, especially with friends. I think like I'm quite better that actually like telling people what to do, and with close friends, even more. So, yeah, it was a lot of pressure, man, a lot of pressure. So I feel like afterwards, because everything worked out great, right, I wish I would have been a little bit more. Yeah, nicer to myself to don't give myself too much pressure and, you know, niceer to your friends, to them as well, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, no, you were too nice.
Speaker 2:Probably.
Speaker 1:It's difficult, isn't it? Because, you know, just start off in this game and even, like, we have friends now who still do proper commercial jobs and take their friends along. I mean, you've taken friends along and you've also been that friend that they've taken along as well. Yeah, how does if you're the director and you're the guy that's got the job and you're bringing a friend, like you know, obviously you pay them, but maybe it's discount rate and friends getting content as well. You know how do you even navigate that? What's I mean?
Speaker 2:I know there is no easy answer, but what I'm a little bit like because it's so hard to like. On the one side, it's awesome to work with your best mates, right, like what's cooler than that, you know? But then on the other side, especially if you have the pressure of, like you know, getting a certain amount of content or whatever, like not even too much about that shoot, but like I did another shoot last year for Mercedes and it was a similar scenario, yes, I don't know if it would be just easy to hire someone that you don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was talking about this with Giovanna I don't even know how, giovanna or Fana. She was on the podcast a couple of months ago and she did a. I mean, she's how can I put this? Politely? She's older than me, should we say, and she's been doing photography about as long as me. She shoots similar stuff. She loves portraits, mainly in Africa, and she's been on a couple of photo tours where there's groups, right. So it's not a commercial product, it's different, but she's done it with a couple of her, like a couple of friends. Like cool, go on a photo trip together, like epic, right, okay, you're paying out of your own pocket, but it's kind of like a holiday together and you're getting photos at the same time.
Speaker 1:She was like I fucking hated it because people were getting in my way, but because they're my friends, like it's more difficult to just say push aside, right, or it's my turn, or maybe we're going, or it's more difficult to go and do things on your own, because you kind of feel like you have to bring your friends with you. So it's, I just defies. Like it's such like yeah, it can save you money and you can create probably a lifelong experience.
Speaker 2:Most of the times, For sure when you'll remember it forever, but it may cost you the job, yeah, and like you know, it's awesome when you finish the shoot and you go for dinner and you're hanging out with your best mates and they're like you know that's great, but once it comes to the shoot, it's like and just to mention that both of them did absolutely great Like I thought I have to say that now.
Speaker 2:No, like, seriously, like without them like we wouldn't even be anywhere close where we are now right now, and they did an amazing job and I know how much effort they put into it as well. And, yeah, like, I absolutely value that time and effort like 100%. But when I have a vision of what I want to create, I've fallen to like a flow state kind of scenario and it's hard for me to communicate then and it's hard for me to communicate in a too nice way, I guess. And yeah, like, maybe some people might get it in a little wrong way, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's just like you're so into your thing, you're so into like the shooting and you're so into like you know, like, and especially there it was like that because I was so extremely well connecting with the artists or like the skateboarder folks I'm a model and what we were shooting was so like intense and it was hard for me during that time capturing my own photos but then also telling someone else like kind of what to do. So, yeah, I don't really have an answer to that. I guess it's just.
Speaker 1:Because on the other side, you think it's a good challenge for yourself, right? You come out of it probably a better professional, probably a better photographer, maybe better person, definitely if you're able to deal with that and manage it well, totally. And if you don't manage it well, you might be able to learn something from it, right?
Speaker 2:100%.
Speaker 1:It's difficult.
Speaker 2:And you know what, Like Elliot wasn't there for too long, but like Chris and I, we got even closer through that trip than we were before, because it's not that we actually had any issues, but there was like a few moments where we were a little bit like oh, what the fuck's going on, of course, 24 hours a day together 24 hours, you know, sleeping in the same room and so on, but actually both of us then communicating about it afterwards and like talking about it, I think just made us even stronger as, like friends.
Speaker 2:You know, our relationship now is deeper than it was before, I guess you know, and it's cool as well to see how the other person shoots, what the other person thinks about things like, because we actually have like quite different styles, so it's sometimes very interesting how he sees it or how I saw it, and I'm quite impressed sometimes when I look at the footage that he captured, like how beautifully, how great he showed it.
Speaker 1:Cool. Well, thanks to Chris for helping us out. You mentioned earlier about, I mean, black and white is an interesting topic and I don't want to bore people, but I think it's an interesting topic because I've never been a fan. I always think, no, I am like. I even do some of my own photos in private in black and white. So it's the studio stuff. But you're colorblind, right, and we talked about this on the last podcast. How does that play into your? Do you decide before you shoot that something is likely going to be black and white? You know, you get on a location, go, oh, this is going to look sick and black and white. Because it's going to, maybe because of the light I mean obviously harsher lighting you can kind of get away with it more in black and white. But, you know, do you have a conscious thought process? Or do you get it on your computer and go and just kind of try it out?
Speaker 2:More recently. I'm quite conscious about it. I'm like, oh, like, I'm going to shoot this and this in there and I'm going to make it black and white. Like, for example, I shot it's like a year ago already, but I shot like a horse at the beach, and also it was very harsh light as well. But I knew before already I want these images to be black and white.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Because it was harsh light, because the sand was it's like a black sand beach and the horse was white.
Speaker 1:So I just felt like that contrast just looks cool, right, so the color contrast of the scene dictate in that instance or in future instances can dictate your choice already. Right, so you can look at your frame or your location and go. It's just an internal feeling, I guess. Is that what you're saying? For sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I think, in general, contrast is a very interesting thing and black and white actually has, like it's, a lot about the contrast, right? So yeah, for sure, and especially with that shoot, for example, yes, the sand was black, but it wasn't black black, so it almost went a little bit into like a brownish direction, which I think in color would have just not looked that great, you know.
Speaker 1:With your color blindness then, so presuming maybe some people hadn't watched our first episode together, they should go and watch it. How does the color blindness play into everything? I mean, does it really inhibit you or does you even notice it, like? I know you notice it most when you're editing, obviously, but how do you get around that? Or do you just? Is it just kind of a I don't know? I guess more of an innate thing now that you just edit and it comes out okay, or is it? Do you consciously aware of it all the time?
Speaker 2:I am, but same with that. I'm at a point of like I don't give a shit, Like there were many, many years of me sending like any images that I edited to a friend, with a photographer as well, or my sister, or my mom even. But right now I'm like man, that's how I see the world, that's how I edit it, and if it's weird, it's weird.
Speaker 1:If not, then cool, but like yeah, but how do you get the colors? I mean, we're gonna talk about some of these photos in a minute, but your colors are pretty fucking good.
Speaker 2:Are they? Yeah, okay, well, that's good to know. I mean colorblind doesn't mean that I can't see colors, right? I just see like certain tones differently. Like the best example I can give is, for example, like you know how after sunset sometimes the clouds kind of turn pink. Yeah, that's really hard for me to see. Like sometimes I'm saying a photographer starts shooting the sunset, I'm like what the fuck are you shooting?
Speaker 1:But it's actually like that, yeah, so I think you should tell people that you can't see any color and people are like, oh my God, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be a good concept. I mean.
Speaker 2:I can get some jobs that way. It could be the colorblind brand. Yeah, literally You're right. So yeah, like, like, obviously I can see color. It's just like little tones. They're like different to how you see it and I can't change it. Man, Like you know, it is what it is. I guess I still struggle with like skin tones and stuff. So I'm actually it's great to hear, but I also don't really trust anyone really, so I'm not too sure if it's actually that good, you know, but what can I do?
Speaker 1:Well, we all see things a little bit different. I mean, color is so difficult to get right anyway 100%, let alone if you add on color blindness. I mean I still struggle with it a lot and that's what takes up most of my editing time actually is the color grading. Playing for hours on the hue and saturation tabs in Lightroom and then again in Photoshop with the light curves, and I still don't get it right. And then I think, oh, maybe my screen's not calibrated, and then I put it on my phone. It looks different.
Speaker 1:And then you put it on Instagram it looks different, and then put it on one screen, like my studio screen upstairs, different, and they're all gonna be calibrated, but I don't understand.
Speaker 2:I'll give up, I'm just gonna go ahead and have a bit. It's definitely like it's huge man. That's why there's professional color graders, right that's why it's like a job. It's massive, yeah, but then again, like you know, if you feel it, how it looks, right and that's cool. And again it comes back to the process as well. If you actually enjoy the process of it, then what else does matter? I guess you know.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, we're talking about these prints on the walls. I mean we chose these, we kind of curated them together. I mean they're all yours but we wanted to show some beauty but show some mysteries all right with the images, but also they had to kind of fit together in terms of the colors, like quite a few are black and white and others aren't even the color ones. We had to get the warmth correct with both of them. So when you print them as well, it's just different again.
Speaker 2:So that doesn't look like it does on my screen, because it depends on the printer and depends on the paper.
Speaker 1:So much behind it. So much behind it. But give us I mean, I love this image. We'll put it on the screen for people watching this, and apologies for people just listening to it, but we can send them a link. Tell us about this image. And was this a lucky shot or was this a?
Speaker 2:deliberate. No, that was like an absolute lucky shot. I can't believe it actually worked out that great. Yeah, it's the Salah the Uyuni in Bolivia, which is, I'm pretty sure, the biggest salt flat in the world, I guess yeah, and this was when, a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2:That was February 2022. So, like almost two years ago, yeah, bam, almost two years ago. So, yeah, you can see my good friend Clay. We were shooting for like a week there Great example as well. It was like a photography trip, so we were like seven or eight different photographers, which was awesome because we were all creatives, but it was also like, as you mentioned before, it's like dude, you're standing in my shot and like, oh, I saw this before you, and so on, you know. So it became a little bit like too much, but great people, like all of them, are very close friends of mine, so it was a beautiful trip. But, yeah, in the end, there was just a storm coming up in the back and I saw Clay standing a little bit further away and he was wearing all white and it just fit in perfectly and, especially in black and white, that one just pops out so much more Slaps. Yeah, I was just gonna say that and it was like I don't know. I don't know if these people understand my language you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, like it's definitely one of my all-time favorite shots.
Speaker 1:But I can see the difference in your thought process between something like this and then something like Jade here in this photo right, because that's like almost two years ago.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of things change, like. That's literally one of these examples that we were talking about earlier. Like it's so like clean, you know, like-.
Speaker 1:It's perfect.
Speaker 2:It's like you know sans-error again, but it's pretty perfect in terms of composition and like you know everything and like there's no, no, like little spots or anything like that.
Speaker 1:By the way sorry to interrupt I really like the slightly off white that the salt is, because if it was pure white it would just go straight in with his clothes, exactly yeah, so like that was obviously intentional, art of intent, exactly.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, a lot changed in the last since I shot that. So, yeah, now I'm probably doing more stuff like that, which is, you know, a little bit less perfect and more feeling, I guess, definitely more, I guess, emotion behind that style of image. Emotion, yeah, like I just wanted more. I don't know if real is the right word, I don't think that's a that looks real, but like I think it's more authentic, you know, like it looks like that could have actually been a moment, while that is like, obviously it's staged right, obviously, like I kind of directed him to stand exactly there. So, yeah, our lines missed a thing and whatever, which is still like that one especially, I think it's so cool, but like I feel like I'm going way more into that direction. That other 40 years, well, which is what's that name? A model, a model? Chen Bo, chen Bo. Yeah, and we were literally just running on the beach for Naked, naked. Yeah, I wasn't naked, just saying, you know.
Speaker 1:Just imagine you both running on the beach naked. You got a camera in your hand.
Speaker 2:Imagine that Wait for me. No, no, no. So that was actually. It was her, me, elliot, and another friend of mine, barney, and it was dark and one of us was holding the light and the other two are running after her and it was dark at the beach, right, so it was pretty much three guys chasing a naked girl on the beach with a nice sound. This sounds a bit rapey, mate. No, but that's how we created that photo. But yeah, it's like I didn't care about my setting stay, you know, like I didn't really like think about these things too much. It was just like more like really getting that motion, that feeling of her being like kind of like alone, slash, lonely on a beach at night.
Speaker 2:You know, and I'm really trying to go into that direction way more, and I think a lot of that has to do with, like your equipment as well, just like you know, forcing yourself and only using one lens, or even just one prime lens, like like I started shooting everything on like my 24 mil before I got the Leica, I forced myself and shoot on the 24 Sigma lens, sony camera, that's it. No zoom lens is nothing else, just that. That's like you know. And then, obviously, now I'm shooting on a beautiful Leica M11, which is the Ure camera apparently which is a 35 mil, but it puts you in, I mean to be honest, sometimes annoying. Sometimes I'm like dude would be sick to have like a 200 mil right now or something you know, but it makes you be more in the moment, it makes you. You have to be engaged with your subject. You have to, like you know, walk around, you have to work to get your Hating lenses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hate them Again. It's like I just think it's cheating. It's totally meant Get in there, get close. You're never close enough, for sure.
Speaker 2:Get in there. Get in there in a moment 100%.
Speaker 1:And your quality? The quality of the image, is not good either.
Speaker 2:Like you can get technical about it and also like just stepping down from your whatever you want to call it, but like, just like accepting that you got a one lens and that's what you can get. Fuck, you can't get this 200 mil shot right now Also, you have more uniformity.
Speaker 1:Uniformity yeah, don't ask me Uniformity. You have more consistency right With your image images. So if you go into a project like that, you basically want two focal lengths. Is that no more than that really Totally? And the thing with zooms are I gotta hate them so much Like you. People just like in and out, in and out, and they may be here, they may be there, like you've got all these different compressions and different focal lengths on your images.
Speaker 2:Like that doesn't make a consistent series 100%.
Speaker 1:What are you trying to say? It's just. It's laziness, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure, and it's like I understand how they. I definitely understand how they can be useful, but 100% for commercial work or whatever like totally makes sense. But like, yeah, just having that one or two prime lenses and like having to make it all work with that is it's a beautiful experience and it's quite an annoying journey to get there. You know like, for example, like the trip LA, Hong Kong, I shot everything on the Leica 35 millimeter. You know like there's no other lens, that's it, which is-.
Speaker 1:I remember that camera, oh really. Yeah, I used to have an M11. Oh, you're serious. Oh, no my.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 1:Anyway, it's, it used to be sat up here in the office. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah no it's a beautiful camera man, it is beautiful. You can try mine out if you want some. Oh thanks.
Speaker 2:Beautiful camera, by the way, like seriously like it is gorgeous.
Speaker 1:It is incredible the shooting experience that lens so.
Speaker 2:That lens, the shooting experience. It's extremely slow, but like and I fucking hate it at the beginning, man, oh my God, it pissed me off, like, not on that trip, but like before, when I first got it from you, borrowed it from you, like I didn't like it, man, but now I'm so aligned with it. Like you know, it's been a beautiful journey, that camera, so it changed. I don't you don't even know what you did to me with that camera, but it literally changed my point and how I see photography and how I shoot and my entire style. Because, yeah, I feel like now I'm actually becoming a photographer. You know what I mean. Like, like Not a spray and pray, that's it. You can't spray and pray with that camera.
Speaker 1:I think everyone should. I mean you could go back and back. I mean people criticize me for not, you know. You know anyone can criticize anyone for not doing anything and I don't want any of this to sound critical at all, because we have our own ways of shooting right. I don't want to criticize people, even though I just did but zoom lenses, but I think everyone should be at some point. Try to shoot a whole project, a whole series or for a certain amount of time a whole day, a whole week, a whole month with a prime lens, fixed lens and manual focus, manual focus yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:I think entirely, completely different about photography. It will be so difficult and so annoying. It'll be so annoying because you think you'll miss the best shots, because you're just not used to it. But that teething process, and once you get through that, our man is rewarding.
Speaker 2:And again, process you know like, like, the process of actually getting the photos is so much more often process instead of just, like, you know, spraying. You know like, and hoping that one out of 200 photos is in focus and looks good. Right, and to be fair, I've been doing that for years, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, we all still do it, we all yeah.
Speaker 2:At some point it depends what we're shooting, and it's fair and even, as you said, as, like criticizing people, it's not what we want to do, yeah, but like it's also part of the process, right, like everyone might get to that, like I don't want to say that that's the only path you can do, but maybe people they're like shooting on zoom lenses right now and doing like you know, just hoping that something looks good in the end. Maybe that's just part, that's just where they are and their path right now, and they will get to something else in the future. Because that was me even a year ago, right, and now I'm like the complete opposite. Right Now I'm shooting on the Leica, on manual focus, trying to create something like that, while I was shooting, like one and a half years ago, something like that on like a Sony.
Speaker 1:But the button. They're both still amazing. I mean, you still have amazing photos whatever you're using. It's just your style has changed a little bit or you've evolved into something else, I guess.
Speaker 2:Which I love.
Speaker 1:I think that's really important for people to understand is it's not change, it's not criticism of certain styles. What I feel comfortable criticising is when I don't know how to put this when people I mean, let's take social media right, I mean because we talk about this all the time, so how's? She talked about this a lot with Joey. We kind of differed in opinion on it. If we're not critical of certain forms or certain standards, then I don't know what we're doing.
Speaker 1:I think it's okay to be judgmental sometimes. I think it's okay to want better standards with anything you do, but photography being one of them. The problem with photography is because it's a medium of art, a form of art, should I say, through a specific medium which is basically quite easy to do. Anyone can learn it, right. The technical aspect of it. That doesn't mean that a photo taken with Sony a7r5 with great lighting is a brilliant photo, right? It's like what constitutes a good photo. Some people say, well, whatever it means to you, right? Or oh, with the technical stuff good lighting, sharp focus, good expression, whatever I mean it's so difficult to qualify At some point. I do believe we have to do it because, with AI coming in on the back end, plus throwing the social media pressures that people just spray and pray, spray and pray. I need to get posts, I need to get shots, I need to slap on a preset. Oh yeah, it looks fine. That, for me, is not photography and if you look at it sounds a bit purist. But if you look at the best photographers in the world, even today, they don't do that. That is not their process. 100% Right. A, they're telling a story. B they have intention behind whatever they're shooting. Right, you look at some of the best photographers out there, past and present, you know.
Speaker 1:Pick anyone, even even let's take some someone, some people today who are successful in whatever realm, even in the Instagram realm. Right, let's take someone. I mean Alex Stroll. Right, interviewed him a couple of weeks ago. Two million followers on Instagram. Very successful, you would think, very successful with the brands he's worked with. Obviously no idea about the money zone, but I'm sure he's been successful in his own way and that he's done amazing projects. He's made a difference. He's grown brilliantly on social media. Every photo he does has intention behind it. He's trying to tell something, whether that's like the smallest, stupid little narrative or not, or a part of a bigger project. But bigger series, bigger expose. Even someone like Luke Stackpole or George Hammond, george, our friend George like incredible photographer, right.
Speaker 1:Because, he's going into something with intent. When you agree with that style or you like it or don't like it, you have to respect it, you have to appreciate it. That's not spray and pray and they get conflated too much, I think, and that is what I'm critical of. So when, kind of when I'm talking about zoom lenses and that style of photography, I think it's okay for us to put up a finger and go no, like that is a form of photography, but it's not. It's I don't think it's qualified. It's like would never be in that good or amazing or life changing or inspirational photography.
Speaker 2:I think, especially with that stuff, it's like and I feel like, yeah, I mean, we all been there, but I think it just misses the soul of it. You know, because, like, if you're producing something, and you're literally producing something on such a fast pace method, you know, like you're literally you're missing the soul of it, and that's what it's all about, especially in terms of art, right, and I feel that a lot with like younger creators and their work is sometimes like it's awesome, you know, and a technical level, like it looks. It looks fucking cool. Like you know, like it's it's good, but like it just misses that.
Speaker 2:That soul that comes in with, like you know, slowing down. I can't judge him, because that's exactly what I did for so many years, you know, like and, and maybe that's just part of the process, you know. Maybe maybe you have to go through that stage to then slow down a little bit, maybe even with everything in life, right? Maybe, I don't know, maybe that's part of the process, you know maybe I don't think social media.
Speaker 1:I think the problem is actually us as consumers, not us as photographers.
Speaker 2:And again, it's not for these people. It's not about the process, it's about the end result, because the end result gives them or provides them with a lifestyle. That's the problem, or dopamine, yeah. So, like that's the problem, they're doing it to live a certain lifestyle or, like you know, to become well known to, to, you know, become big on social media or whatever, instead of doing it because they enjoy the process, you know, which is maybe not the best, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I I let us not talk about social media again. I have a love hate relationship and it's it's working out for me well at the moment, because I think we do everything, the whole team does everything with a good intention. Right, we're doing something with a specific purpose and we're enjoying the process most of the time. Sometimes it can be just a lot, but I think that is. That is everything. I think intention is is absolutely everything. If you come to me and go look, I want to be, I want to get a million followers on Instagram, okay, like that's. If that's your intent with your photography, then don't, don't market yourself with something else. Right, that's it, fair enough. But the the, the problem is, I guess, not the photographers, it's more the people go ah, that's, that's an amazing shot, right, for sure, okay, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's tell me about like and when we talk about your kind of more new style, but at least these types of ethereal, certainly slow shutter stuff. I imagine it's difficult to pitch with photos like this, or is it because you know? All of us out here think you know I've had limited experience with commercial work, but I know enough to know that most brands will want something a little bit more like that. Or if it's product let's take cars, for example so how are you going to sell that, as you know, on your pitch deck when you're pitching for jobs, yeah.
Speaker 2:It definitely gets harder but also easier, which, I think, because my style becomes more and more like different than too many other people, which is a huge plus point in terms of pitching to people, because they're going to be like, oh hold on, this guy's actually like very different to all the other photographers that are reaching out to us, right? But then, as you say, yes, it's hard to then find brands as well. They are aligned with that style too. So it's like good and bad at the same time, I guess. But in the end it puts, I mean, a position of like I might not get the same amount of jobs that I used to get, but the jobs I get are way more aligned with what I want to do, right. So in the end it's great, I think, because I actually get hired for doing what I love to do, rather than like hey, go shoot that model on that beach and get like super clean images, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:If she'd make it, you can take four of you and just run after her. What's next, mate? How do you evolve from here? What do you have ideas in mind? Do you want to keep kind of chasing different dreams or styles with your photography? Is it more about business? Is it? Obviously you put a lot of your heart and soul into your a, but you know photography is going to continue with it. So what's next for you in terms of your evolution?
Speaker 2:I think right now, your array has such a big place in my life in terms of time, but it also in terms of passion, which totally aligns with my photography, right, like I'm in a prime position of like involving as a photographer, shooting commercially but for my own label. So that's like suddenly I'm on that side and on that side, right, I'm like the creator, but I'm also like the label or the brand. So I absolutely enjoy that, getting more creative, trying new things and shooting it for our brand, which is, yeah, that's awesome and I really want to focus that for now, and then let's see what else comes. I'm not focusing too much on doing much other photography things at the moment. I guess Everything will kind of relate to your array.
Speaker 2:And the cool thing again is like if I want to do a personal shoot, I can so easily combine it with your array. And you know, like, oh, I want to shoot, I don't know, like a motorbike up in Kintamani, the lava fields, it's going to be easy to include the jewelry to it, you know, and like I mean it's, it's the dream, right? Like suddenly I'm shooting for my own brand, my my own passion projects. Like what else would you want? So that's it for the next few months, or a year, I guess, and let's see what and what direction everything else goes.
Speaker 1:But where can people follow us? Now? We just look at as we're recording this it's first December. Merry Christmas everyone. When we release this, it will probably be next week, hopefully, by which time we you know, we're working all out of the day to get everything ready in terms of jewelry, production photos, product photos, launch video website. The more I talk about this, the more I get heart palpitations. But we yeah, we're going to have everything done, obviously before we launch this. Tell, tell people where you know you can find everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, check out our Instagram, which is your rightco, and check out our other Instagram, which is house of your array, which is probably more for like people in Bali. If you're in Bali, come over, check out our art house, you know, have a coffee, check out the jewelry, check out the art on the walls. We got a beautiful upstairs area as well, with the terrace and outside sitting area and, obviously, our studio, which is for rent. So that's one thing house of your array and the other one is your arrayco, which is the label and the community. We don't want to build that as like a brand page. Right, we're going to continue like sharing art, sharing art from different people, sharing our inspiration, yeah, like, like it's going to be a lot.
Speaker 2:I don't want to speak about it too much because it's also like still, you know, a little surprise, I guess. But that's it, and obviously check out our website as well, your arrayco.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so obviously this is, you know, kind of like a launch podcast, I guess, for your array. So it's extremely exciting. People can find us, obviously, where we've said we'll put everything in the description, links in the description and everything. Please come and check us out. We'll be doing some launch discounts and people who are in Bali, like you said, come and check us out.
Speaker 1:We've we serve some incredible coffee For sure, which we're very proud about, and we've worked really hard to create something special with the specialty coffee. It's specialty because we've had a, I guess, an artistic input in everything we've done from from the farm we have a direct trade relationship with, which we believe is super important. They're also in Indonesia, so we're keeping everything as local as possible, which I also think is really important. So we've, in my opinion, we found some of the best jarvanese beans and the best farm that I've I've had anything to do with, and obviously we have this place. So we we roast down the road, we basically sell two beans and we we brew them in various different ways. So we'd really love to have as many people here as possible seeing what we're in, if we don't sell anything like match or anything. But you know, I guess you've got to enjoy coffee. We do sell. Tea Do sell tea.
Speaker 1:We do sell tea, which is your idea, so thanks for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's about it. I think also like it's beautiful how we made the coffee aligned with the tullery. You know, like, instead of just having a coffee machine in here and like selling coffee to people, we actually really tried to have a similar standard and process we have with the tullery also for the coffee, because the tullery is very unique, right, Like with the gemstones or how we produce it, the silver like it's. It's so much behind that, so much intention. We did the same with the coffee, which, yeah, we we really enjoy it and I think it's awesome to bring people together through all of these mediums.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's that's huge and to have everything made here in Indonesia, I think we're there's something we're really proud of it, it's been difficult it still is.
Speaker 1:It still is Especially on the coffee side. I think Indonesian coffee is not known to be you know, it's not usually in the same conversations as Ethiopian coffee, as Colombian coffee, as Guatemalan coffee, rwanda, kenya, these types of places, but for me it's, it's super special and we, we have created even the appearance of the coffee, but especially the taste, something I don't think we could have created that as well as we have if we didn't already have the jewelry concepts and the jewelry being produced because you know the way, the way we do photography, the way we do jewelry also goes into, like the dirty and imperfectness of imperfect, imperfectness, imperfectism, imperfection, the imperfect way we present the coffee right.
Speaker 1:Take the Angel May, which is our signature espresso drink it's dirty, it's dirty and it's stylish, it's stylish.
Speaker 2:It's super stylish and that's that's the beautiful thing. How it aligns with photography, how it aligns with the jewelry. You know like it's, it's art, you know like you need to have a style as a barista to create your signature drink, for example, same as a photographer, same as a jewelry designer. So, yeah, it's all very much connected.
Speaker 1:And if people want us for none of that, that's cool. We also can be a production house if they want us to be a production house, I mean the studio is upstairs. We're usually where we do the podcast, so you know we're open for that. We're open for people to come in do their own podcasts. We're open for people to rent the studio for photography, for videography, for product shots, whatever they want.
Speaker 2:It's great, yeah, product shots, any kind of studio shoots we got different backgrounds, different lights. Yeah, and yeah, especially for podcasts as well. I think it's like I don't think there's another studio in Bali you can like get such a unique setup right. They're all very like clean and neat. Well, this is more like you know, special. Yeah, like everything in here.
Speaker 1:Oh, and that note. Thanks, mate. Thank you, I'd like to say thanks for coming, but we were already here, that's it. We're here every day at the moment, but it's nice to just sit down and chat, so I hope people got as much out of it as we did, and totally Until next time. I guess might be this time next year when we're I'd love to.
Speaker 2:I'd love to look back next year on this podcast and be like you remember, man.
Speaker 1:Well, even nine months ago, looking at the podcast we did, you know we barely knew each other, right?
Speaker 2:Again, it's beautiful how life works sometimes. I like how little connections you meet someone here. This and this happens, and now look at us Like this is actually crazy. I still can't believe it. Yeah, it's insane. Thank you, man.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you. Thank you, thanks to everyone watching and Merry Christmas, merry Christmas.
Speaker 2:You know, merry Christmas, merry Christmas.
Speaker 1:Fuck, see you later.