Unveiling the Essence of Filmmaking and Storytelling, Luca Epifany, E035

Embark on an extraordinary visual expedition guided by Luca Epifany, the visionary Italian filmmaking and storytelling extraordinaire. Join me as I delve into Luca's transition from photography to the captivating realm of filmmaking, uncovering the essence of capturing real-life narratives through the lens. In this enriching dialogue, Luca divulges invaluable insights for crafting compelling content that captivates audiences. Whether you're an aspiring filmmaker, a seasoned photographer, or simply an enthusiast of immersive storytelling, Luca's expertise in engaging audiences, navigating brand partnerships, and strategically approaching commercial aspects in his mesmerizing travel documentaries will undoubtedly resonate.

Our conversation spotlights the transformative potential of video as an educational medium, showcasing the fusion of informative content with breathtaking visuals. Together, Luca and I share a mutual commitment to producing videos that not only dazzle the eye but also stimulate the intellect. We explore the intricacies of portraying cultural phenomena such as Bali's vibrant traditions, offering a behind-the-scenes glimpse into the meticulous research and creative decision-making involved in shaping each narrative. If you've ever pondered the art of seamlessly blending education with aesthetic brilliance in your storytelling, this episode is tailor-made for you.

Furthermore, we confront the challenges of navigating social media landscapes, the relentless pursuit of high-quality content, and the exciting prospect of future collaborations that could redefine the storytelling landscape. Luca's reflections on his artistic process, from his choice of equipment to his conscientious incorporation of environmental themes, provide a refreshing perspective on conveying profound messages through visual storytelling. As we tantalize the audience with hints of forthcoming projects, I trust you'll depart from this episode brimming with anticipation for the authentic tales yet to unfold.

Find links to Luca's work here:
https://beacons.ai/lucaepifany/
https://www.instagram.com/lucaepifany/
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Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

We all love a story. I'm sure we're scared. What made you go from photography to video? I think Tell us a little bit about YouTube, because it's such a beast to kind of get your head around.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I feel like YouTube is by far the best platform ever created.

Speaker 1: 0:22

How do you write a title for your YouTube? Tell us where the business side of your portfolio comes in.

Speaker 2: 0:30

How do I pitch this to a brand, to a company, so that I don't only fly there and just spend money on it? The commercial side of things is always a bigger audience, a bigger industry, because we're consumers, so we're consuming everything. Give us some tips and tricks. I post it real every single day. Think about what you're doing to worth that goal and that work.

Speaker 1: 0:54

How do we prevent ourselves from always wanting the next thing there?

Speaker 2: 0:57

is a quote I read not long ago which, like, blew my mind.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Today I'm speaking with Luca Eppifani, a filmmaker and photographer from Italy and founder of Define, a video production company shooting many commercial projects around the world.

Speaker 1: 1:16

With his expertise in creating captivating visuals for travel, lifestyle and brand content, luca has dedicated over a decade to mastering the art of cinematography and photography. Luca's zest for culture and storytelling in the most unique and niched way possible was really interesting to hear about, and we talked a lot about how to tell stories with a camera and what the process of filmmaking is really all about. We also chatted through similar challenges that all visual artists have today, and that mainly revolves around the input versus output trade-offs we all take when it comes to how we get our work out into the world so that we may open up and maximize the opportunities and impactful impressions on audiences. So now I bring you Luca Eppifani. Luca Eppifani, pleasure to have you on the show. Welcome to the Mood Podcast. Before we get into the kind of gritty stuff, give us a brief intro as to who you are but, more importantly, what you do and why you do it.

Speaker 2: 2:27

So I grew up in Italy and I actually moved to Bali about five years ago now and I've been doing filmmaking and photography since seven years, and I would say the last two or three years I moved from photography video to only video now and I specifically found my niche to be documentary travel, personal brand, I would say and I just kind of fell in love with the whole process of filmmaking. I fell in love with telling stories of people. I fell in love with the whole industry and specifically personal brand as well, with YouTube and Instagram. I'm just trying to mix all of it together, but with my tech.

Speaker 1: 3:15

Why video? What made you go from photography to video?

Speaker 2: 3:22

I think the main reason is that I found now I know you're a photographer, but I found photography a bit too not easy, but very like I would go to all around Bali, to these amazing places, to shooting people and culture, and you can get so many nice photos in the same morning, while video is a bit more like you have to focus a bit more on telling an actual story, and I kind of got really hooked on just not getting the perfect shot by getting the whole story behind it, which is, I think, what kind of hooked me. And then from there I kind of got kind of like pushed a bit more towards the video side in terms of like client work as well, because I find that I just find it more interesting to do like tell a brand story through video rather than photos. And then I just kind of fell into it and I'm just in love with it now.

Speaker 1: 4:30

So it's more about this story. You love this storytelling aspect.

Speaker 2: 4:34

Yeah, I like the storytelling and I also like to just be able to capture, you know, showcase different side of what is happening. I think one thing that I always struggle with photos is, like you know, you can have like different photos of the same subject, but it was always very hard, for me at least, to capture the actual environment around the subject. Well, now you know, if I go out and shoot, like a ceremony in Bali, for example, I can tell the whole story of the ceremony rather than just like take one amazing photo of it.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. I think that's almost. The challenge of photography. For me, though, is like you know, how can I? That's why I love environmental portraits. Portraits are great because you can really hopefully, if you do it well see the essence of a human, but the environmental portraiture side of it just adds so much more to it. Right, and I get that with video. But on the flip side, I almost think, well, video is much more three dimensional, you've got more time to work, you know. So it's moving right, it's an evolving piece, it's more, you've got way more latitude to create. So then I think, well, that's kind of a it's not easier, but it's different, but it's easier to tell. You have more at your disposal to tell a story, right? So there's kind of like this you know, trade off between what's there available to you, what's easier, or really what you gravitate to more and clearly sounds like video is your calling.

Speaker 2: 6:10

I do feel like photo is a bit more art in general rather than video, but I do feel like video. For me it just fits better for what I like to the way I like to tell a story.

Speaker 1: 6:23

I'd say Okay, let's talk about stories, because they are the basis, I think, of human nature. Right, we all love a story, Whatever we're doing in any part of our day or people. We love friends, movies, books, everything, it's just. It always is the undercurrent to our existence. What stories do you like to tell?

Speaker 2: 6:50

I would say that I like to tell story of things that I actually murder, in the sense that I've kind of used to, like you know, without the last maybe three, four years, that I moved more towards video. I kind of started to take on any client that I could get and on a personal brand level I would just kind of like go out and shoot whatever. And now I'm gravitating a lot more towards something like a cultural slash documentary style, but kind of with a modern approach, because I find that a lot of these documentary work or travel it's either out there, very extreme or very classic.

Speaker 1: 7:40

We would elaborate more. What do you mean? Extreme or classic.

Speaker 2: 7:43

So it would be something like too many transitions, too many, nothing to say about it, but like too many backflips, too many girls running with me, too many IG influence a real type yeah too many of that or too classic in the sense like too like National Geographic, too much like you know, bbc kind of style.

Speaker 2: 8:03

There's nothing really in between and if there is, it's like very few people. So I feel like there's a good niche there. And especially, like I'd say, the last few year I've done a lot of work with NGOs, especially here in Bali. I've done a lot with Rescue 2000 and pretty much what they do. They help building families, houses and in like very remote part of Bali they pretty much build the houses, they bring them food and stuff like that, and it's very inspiring work. And especially, I find that when you see these people they live in such crazy, you know, like in the middle of the jungle. You have to walk like 20 minutes. You can't even get there by bike down like a steep hill or something, and they live there by themselves with like a few chickens and a cow and they're still like super happy, they're super smiley. So like you make, like it puts everything into perspective, like what do we need, what do we don't need, so it's like to be able to capture that and to tell that story. I find it very inspiring.

Speaker 1: 9:03

I love that. Yeah, it's amazing. So on the other side of that, how do you make money?

Speaker 2: 9:13

Well, it is pretty lucky that a lot of this NGO project actually have a pretty good budget, because you know the way you fundraise. You have to show what you do. So this company is like Kamar Gaur, for example. Yeah, they're like a massive worldwide company who fundraise for every single cause that pretty much there is out there.

Speaker 1: 9:35

Yeah, I'm sorry to just because you mentioned them and I see them on. You know, support them all the time, yeah, whether it's they're asking for donation or just sharing posts and stuff. But you know it drains me so much because most of their posts are just so upsetting. Right, they're very extreme, yeah, very extreme. But that's almost that cognitive dissonance with humans, like, well, I don't really want to see the bad stuff's going on, but I'm happy just to kind of, you know, feel better about supporting.

Speaker 2: 10:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:07

I think that's where someone like you really does make an impact, because you can actually physically go and help right, whether that's making a beautiful film out of it or just helping right, physically helping.

Speaker 2: 10:20

Yeah, I find that, for example like let's take Kamar Gaur as an example I find that in Instagram they share a lot of like viral potential stuff just to get attention to it, but on the backside I feel like the way they run I'm not 100% sure of it, but I'm pretty sure this is how they run is that they have that virality but then they actually have so many causes that they actually, you know, help and making films about these causes. Then they pitch to you know high society people and then they get funds to support these people. The reason is, you know you need to have a good video. You need to have a good like base to show what you're actually doing, otherwise no one's going to give you money. So you have to pay to make a good video to get people to pay you back and fund Got it. That whole cause.

Speaker 1: 11:11

So actually it works by you giving them the content and then them paying for that license.

Speaker 2: 11:16

essentially, Usually well, I haven't worked with Kamar Gaur, but like for rescue, for example, they would, like you know, have an idea like let's build 10 houses in this one village and we're going to try and fundraise these 10 houses, which costs, let's say, I don't know, 20K US, for example. So what they're going to do, they're going to try and fundraise for that, but then also ask the fundraiser people to raise a bit more money to also have a video so that both the fundraiser but also the company can showcase what they've done to like future investors Makes sense, Any other NGOs you plan on working with, or is that the direction you want to go with with all this kind of exclusively NGOs more impactful work?

Speaker 2: 12:02

I think it's definitely like 30, 40% of what I want to do, but it's not only that.

Speaker 2: 12:07

I think I want to focus a lot more on just personal brand and putting a lot more effort onto my YouTube channel and my Instagram and just grow that but always kind of keep a direction where I tell stories of not just everything you already seen, not just like a beautiful place like Bali, but actually like the people of Bali.

Speaker 2: 12:27

So that's why I one of the goals of these years I wrote down a huge list of all of the biggest ceremonies, festivals, specific things happening all around Bali and Indonesia and I'm going to try and hit that as many as I can Just go to like I don't know. I found like a very generic one, just to mention one Like there is this volcano, krakatoa, that exploded a couple of hundred years ago or something and probably a bit more, actually A couple of thousand maybe, but every year on the day that exploded, like a bunch of people from the region go on top of the mountains to celebrate the fact that there didn't happen to them and like just capturing like something like this all around Indonesia when is that? So the way it is, and between Java and Sumatra.

Speaker 1: 13:20

Because I think that, if I remember rightly, that shaped a lot of what Indonesia is today. It was the loudest sound ever recorded.

Speaker 2: 13:27

Right, that's the one.

Speaker 1: 13:28

Yeah, it affected apparently the whole world Like there was a huge cloud and it's funny, you talk about the kind of writing a list of the, you know, the full year of ceremonies and events in Bali, or Indonesia, or Bali or Bali. Pretty much both.

Speaker 2: 13:43

We did exactly the same Like that Like a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1: 13:47

Because I realized, having lived here for almost two years now, I haven't actually captured that much of Bali. You know, I've done other parts of Indonesia and other parts of the world, but there's something about if you live somewhere, you don't really give it as much focus as maybe somewhere that's more romantic, maybe somewhere abroad, you know. So, yeah, I wanted to do a photo series of I mean, I'm building it, I'm a much bigger one of Indonesia generally, but Bali needs to be a huge part of that because it's so, so rich here in culture and subculture. So, yeah, we did exactly the same and every time I'm back here in Bali, it's like, okay, I'm going to go out and shoot or meet some new people and hopefully, you know, tell more of a story with the photos that way.

Speaker 2: 14:32

So maybe we can join forces, or we can do a video guide on my side.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Yeah, cool, tell us a little bit about YouTube, because it's such a beast to kind of get your head around. I know that you take more of a kind of educational approach. Is that the way you want to move forward and, if so, why that kind of tips and tricks, education type stuff?

Speaker 2: 15:00

Yeah, I feel like YouTube is by far the best platform ever created. Really, I'd say, yeah, it's like you know, like on Instagram, people just scroll through, same as TikTok, facebook, pretty much that I'd say. So YouTube is like where they actually audience, they focus on something that they don't scroll through. They actually, you know, I, you know, I watch like 10, 20 minutes videos on a daily basis of all the people, and I feel like that's where the audience actually go, even more than TV nowadays, like just to just to enjoy, like not only just the content, but something like educational. You know, if you need to learn something on YouTube, if you need to just, you know, entertain me, you go on YouTube.

Speaker 2: 15:43

So there's so many aspects of it that you can kind of work around. And there is a few reasons. Why I chose a bit more about educational way is because I feel like a lot of people need to know more things and still, like when I look for tutorials or anything like that, there isn't enough content out there like specific content. So I feel like there is definitely a gap for that.

Speaker 1: 16:10

So for example, there's an issue.

Speaker 2: 16:12

So, for example, for DaVinci Resolve, there's I that you either find very technical, very hard to follow color grading tutorials, or you find almost two basic tutorials, so there's only like one or two or three that you can find. That is kind of like in the middle, you know, for like the everyday user. So you know, if you don't want to be like a Hollywood colorist, you just want to. You know, color grading is in real. There isn't anything easy to follow along for that. So that's one niche, for example, that I'm kind of trying to put myself into. But then, along with that, I want to also keep creating this kind of videos where I tell the story of what I actually care about, which is not only like you know teaching people, you know how to shoot or whatever. It's more like telling the stories that actually matters to me. So, going back to the culture, documentary kind of style, I'm starting a series now. I publish my videos so far only, but pretty much what I do is I research something very specific, like a ceremony. So let's take Galungan, for example, here in Bali. So I'm going to go around all the island on Galungan, capture the whole ceremony throughout, different villages, different temples, different streets, and then have like a voice over where I tell the story of what's happening.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Because you can either find a very cinematic video of Galungan, you can find a very like vloggy style video, but there's nothing like in between. So you know, a blog style video is informative, it's fun to watch, but it's kind of lacking the beautiful cinematic aspect. Cinematic video is nice but it's lacking the information. Like yeah, yeah, I'm watching a ceremony, cool, but like what am I watching? So I kind of wanna do that kind of mix the two, but without the vlog style. I'd say like I don't wanna talk to the camera while I'm out there, I just wanna narrate it and have like a 10 to 20 minutes videos where I narrate like what's happening on like one specific part of Bali and the whole like idea behind. It is like tell a bigger story about Bali rather than just, you know, go to Nuzapenida, go to Chang'e, go to Watuna, which there's way too many. You know, bali cinematic 20, 30.

Speaker 1: 18:37

And the only story there is tourists ripping off loaners.

Speaker 2: 18:40

There's no actual story.

Speaker 1: 18:43

I mean there probably is like underlay under the you know 10 layers of crap that sits on top. But yeah, very few, you know it's fine.

Speaker 2: 18:50

How do you tell a story that's very interesting?

Speaker 2: 18:52

I find that it's very subjective, so, in the actual sense of it, usually try and follow what an actual story should be told like.

Speaker 2: 19:03

So have like a start, something's happening, so you're interested to it, and then you kind of take that alive and then there's like something else happening and then at the end there's a resolution. So kind of try and keep that alive within all the videos. But for these kind of videos, for example, I would research something that I'm shooting and then I kind of just go out there and shoot and then meeting people, luckily I'm like learning a bit of Bahasa Indonesia as well. So I'm help try communicate of it and just trying to find out things that I don't know about and then tell that through visuals and then, yeah, kind of go back home, kind of put all the thoughts together and try and like put it together in a way that makes sense. This is for these kind of videos. If it's a more like a brand video or like an NGO video, then I think just asking questions, that's the best way of finding out what the story is and what to focus on.

Speaker 1: 20:05

How do you? You talked about the aesthetics. I mean it sounds like I love the way you trying to target a niche, right? I think that's important as long as it feels good to you and matching what you want to do with a niche, right? It's like gold, right? That niche being the aesthetic somewhere between modern and classic and the story. That is a story and that actually means something or hasn't necessarily been told properly before With the aesthetics. How do you do that? So it's not a modern approach that's super fast and click baity and not so much a Nat Geo classic style, technically speaking? How do you kind of go about doing that?

Speaker 2: 20:50

Give us some tips In terms of like actually the way I shoot or the way you shoot, the way you edit.

Speaker 2: 20:55

Yeah, I feel like this is very self-proclaimed, but I like to take a more like a cinematography approach. So if you look at like Planet Earth kind of style of documentaries, they're very beautiful, Every shot is perfect. When you look at like a travel video, every shot is just like fast-paced, the camera's moving, While if you look at films, everything is like it's beautiful, it's perfect, but there is that kind of, there is that kind of look that it looks very cinematic. So the way you see like a Planet Earth documentary is not the same way you see like a, you know, like a film in the cinema.

Speaker 2: 21:42

It's just the different looks and I'm trying to adapt a bit more of a cinematography look towards the documentary style. So I like to have I'm shooting with a lot of like scenic lenses, manual lenses. I like to have a bit more of like a shaky kind of look, be more like raw but still like beautiful, Not too many slow motion shots, more like real time, what actually happening, and just a different like look in terms of colors as well, Very like, you know, kind of toned down and very like a bit grainy, a bit of a Haitian. You know this kind of look that to me looks very cinematic.

Speaker 1: 22:25

Yeah, how you define cinematic, I think is quite subjective. You know, you look out there and you see YouTube videos about, you know, getting the cinematic look and everyone's different it's. You know, some of it's down to color grade, some of it's down to what equipment you use, some of it's down to how you pan or what angles you're going to shoot at. So it's interesting to hear, kind of, I guess, your take on it. Yeah, but at the core of that, I guess, is you know you've got to match the look with the content. Yeah, you know that's the point of doing a cinematic film if it doesn't show anything.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Right, yeah, exactly. So being able to tell a story, I think it's very important Because, like you can have all the gear, you can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you can't tell a story, yeah, it's kind of pointless.

Speaker 1: 23:15

Tell us a little bit about your equipment, what equipment you use. You mentioned some cine lens is there? What does that mean for people who, for layman, who don't really know what that means? You can explain a little bit more about that?

Speaker 2: 23:25

So, as in camera, I use a Sony S3, and sometime I rent FX6, which is like a bigger kind of cinema camera, but I'm actually looking to buy one of those this year, so how much today? About 6K US Okay, so it's not too bad.

Speaker 2: 23:45

There should be a new version coming out this year. So when that comes out, probably get one, but for now just Sony S3 and cine lenses are pretty much like a normal lens. But it's built for video. So any lens that you can find like a Sigma, Sony, whatever they usually made for photo, so it doesn't matter. You can buy a 16 to 35 from Sony in Indonesia, you can buy in the US, you can buy in Australia. It's the same exact lens. It will look the exact same. Cine lenses are a bit more specific in the sense that they're made for video, so they're a bit more imperfect. So they have a bit more like chromatic aberration, a bit more halation. It's just like a different look and a lot of them get like this coating on top of the glass. It just looks a bit softer. Well, photography lenses are very sharp, so you get a bit more of like a cinematic look.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:40

You know. So, yeah, the only downside is that they're manual lenses, so it's all manual focus, manual aperture, which is a bit tricky especially a lot of this project I shouldn't buy myself. So I have kind of like one hand on the camera and one hand on like the photo focus, or sometimes I just focus by myself, but it's just very kind of complicated to you know, if you're doing like handheld, it's very, very hard to like get the focus in the right place, because also a lot of these cine lenses are super shallow. So one that I love it's at 45 millimeters, t1.5, which is like F1.1. So it's like it's so easy to miss the focus, but the look that you get out of them, it's just something very different. So yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:28

So with that equipment you have to have much more of a mindful approach, right? Yeah, bit more deliberate with what you're doing and how you're going to do it. It's not so much like a you know, go out there and just shoot whatever you see. I mean you do that, but you have to be a lot more kind of in the flow.

Speaker 2: 25:50

Yeah, I feel like to be honest, I still use like normal photography lenses. Also, I use a 24-70 a lot of the time as well, but for a specific look, for specific shots, I really like to use cine lenses or even vintage lenses, because they have such a unique look Like. There is this one lens the Helios 44-2, and it's such a unique lens it was actually the most mass produced lens ever and it's so unique because you get like this bokehs. There are almost like crazy ovular, like almost like a line bokeh, which makes it almost look like anamorphic lens, but it costs like 20 bucks this lens.

Speaker 2: 26:32

What is an anamorphic lens? Anamorphic lens is when you watch a movie and you get this weird like line flares on the lights. That's pretty much the easiest way to recognize it. But there's also like different. The way they focus it's very different. And the way they record video it's different. They don't record like 16 by nine, but they would record in two 39, two, one. So you get like a video like this instead of this. We don't have anamorphic lenses, so everything is like. You know, you would get the look of like a 50 mil, but then when you actually get it out, it's like a 24 mil. So it's super spread out, but it's super shallow and it's super compressed. It's very interesting, it is yeah.

Speaker 1: 27:15

Tell us where the business side of your portfolio comes in. I know you do some work with NGOs. You've just said maybe 30, 40% of your work and then the rest of it is what? It's YouTube, it's Instagram. Do you still do any commercial work? I do, yes, every now and then. How do you go about pitching for that? Is that a very deliberate approach about who you want to work with, or is it kind of I need a job that's going to get one?

Speaker 2: 27:44

I think it depends by the situation on the client. From a year and a half now, I'm only taking on clients that I actually enjoy working with and I'm in the lucky position to not have to look for work for now. So I'm enjoying that and, like whenever people pitch me work, I'm like I don't think either is like a too big of a project that.

Speaker 2: 28:08

I don't want to take on because I can see already like, yeah, you have a big budget but it's not worth the time because it's going to take me two months, which means I'm not going to be able to do this, this and this that I want to do for myself. So I'm always making sure that I'm actually keeping the time to myself, not only just seeking just the highest-paced job, and I actually find myself to pitch a lot of work to a lot of brands, and the reason is because I want to get that exact work with this exact brand. So, for example, I'm in the process now working with the art list for a project that we're going to shoot in this crazy floating market in Borneo and we're going to go shooting that end of next month, if whatever allows. Yeah, just like the intention of what?

Speaker 2: 29:00

Just pretty much the idea is that I saw this floating market, which is the biggest in South Asia and happens every morning in this one sitting in the south of Borneo, and I really wanted to go capture that.

Speaker 2: 29:13

So I thought about it how do I pitch this to a brand, to a company, so that I don't only fly there and just spend money on it?

Speaker 2: 29:22

And the only pretty much company that came to mind was something that has to do that doesn't touch my creative freedom, but they just want to be the supporter and they have their name on it.

Speaker 2: 29:36

So one thing that I always really enjoyed is capturing audio from what's happening, and I have a little audio recorder, and the main idea behind the whole video was pretty much going there telling the story of a lady who does that every day, because this market happens every day, but also capturing these unique sounds because it's going to be in the water, there's like seagulls, because it's near the ocean, there's a lot of different sounds, there's a lot of different vendors shouting, so I want to capture the actual ambient sound of that, and I don't think you can find that anywhere else. So it's going to be a very unique soundscape and once I figured that out I was like, well, who can I pitch this? And I've been using Artlist for four or five years now and to me it's like one of literally the best music company because of the high quality music and its sound effects. So I was like, well, I can pitch them. So I just found the contact, pitched it to them and said OK.

Speaker 2: 30:38

So just the sound? Well, no. So I'm going to capture like a video, but the whole video is about the importance of sound. And how can sound can kind of change the way you see a video, you watch a video. So I'm going to get a bunch of behind the scenes of me capturing all the sounds and putting together a whole film about this lady who does that every day. But also like the side of things where I capture the sounds of everything around the market and stuff.

Speaker 1: 31:04

Fuck audio. When done well, it can transform video, but when done?

Speaker 1: 31:12

badly. It can ruin video. It's so difficult. How do you go about? You know, take that project, for example, where you know, let's say, I'm a beginner and I want to go and do something like that and through luck, I get offered the job. Where do I start? What? What if you're doing it all yourself? Would you? Are you going to do that yourself, or are you going to take some people with you? No, I'm going to do with Zach, oh, zach, okay, yeah. So where where do you start? You know, how do you? How do you go from here nothing to coming back and saying, artlist, here's your incredible video.

Speaker 2: 31:48

I think at the start is kind of tricky. But I would say, just do the jobs that you want to get, and at the start is very hard because I guess if you're starting out you don't know how to get that quality, you don't know how to get you know the storytelling. So I would say, just start somewhere and you're probably not going to get any brands or anything like that to actually pay for it. But what you can do is try and make exactly what the company is making, just replicate. Just replicate it like literally the same thing. And then do it with like five or six companies and just prove that you can get like the same exact results. And then you have, like these five or six videos that, yes, they look exactly the same, like you know what companies did, but you understood how to make that.

Speaker 2: 32:37

So now you can, you know, find a creative product that you have in mind, make it and then use that as like a piece, like a spec art, and be like I can make this let's say, I don't know like a, like a skateboard, like 30 second art, and then pitch that to all of like the companies, like Vans, like all of the companies around the world about skateboards, and like skidward shoes or socks, whatever, and just pitch them and show them that you already made something like that. You can do it. I think that's the. I mean, that's the best way. Just do the job that you wish you could do.

Speaker 1: 33:17

Hi everyone. Before I let you continue with the podcast, just indulge me for a few minutes. I want to briefly talk to you about my new brand, yore. Founded with my business partner and photographic artist, finn Mattson, we are proud to bring you a new artisanal jewelry and specialty coffee brand, yep. What on earth do they have to do with anything? Well, they're both our passions and they've always been another artistic outlet for me, now for over a decade. For those that know me, coffee and jewelry have been my other obsession since I was young, and I am a qualified SCA coffee specialist. So when I met Finn, some of you might have listened to my podcast with him. When we barely knew each other, our love for art and jewelry had a home, and that home is Yore.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Yore is about the art of intent for everything that we do. Our intention with the label was to add a touch of celestial elegance and artistic expression to our visual narratives. Every piece is a statement or reflection of your unique story and purpose. It's not just jewelry, it's a wearable piece of art that speaks volumes. Picture this silver or gold adorned with an actual piece of lunar meteorite, making every piece as unique as the moments we usually capture through our lenses. From limited edition lunar jewelry pieces to finely crafted 925 sterling, silver and gold rings, pendants and chains there's something for all of you in each of our unique designs.

Speaker 1: 34:45

We're also committed to the environment as much as possible. Our coffee in our barley showroom is direct trade, organically produced and locally farmed, minimizing impact on the environment as much as possible. Our packaging is all sustainable and our jewelry recycled other than the moonrock, of course Proudly eco-friendly. In both packaging and jewelry production. You can feel good about looking good. And to top it off, we offer worldwide shipping, ensuring that a piece of lunar beauty can grace your collection no matter where life takes you.

Speaker 1: 35:17

And if you ever find yourself in barley, please come and visit our house of yore. Our cafe and community-driven art house is a haven for creatives just like you. And before we head back into the podcast, please just take a moment to explore yore's collection. As a special treat for you, my wonderful audience, yore is offering an exclusive discount. So head over to our website and use the code in the description for a 10% discount of your jewelry purchase. The link in details are all in the description. So thanks so much for listening and I'll let you get back to the podcast now. Do you find like in more of our niche kind of like the not documentary but the more the human interest side of it, the cultures, some cultures telling those kind of stories, do you feel like there's less opportunities in those that type of sector than maybe the brands? For sure, yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Why is that? I feel like not many people are that interested, so that means we're all fucking stupid.

Speaker 1: 36:28

Yeah, we're just dumbing ourselves down on TikTok and Instagram.

Speaker 2: 36:33

I feel like you know, like the commercial side of things is always a, the commercial side of things is always a bigger audience, a bigger industry, because you know we're consumers, so we're consuming every day. So you know, commercial for, like clothing brand is always going to impact a lot more people than like a documentary about Bali, because you know how many people actually care about Bali. Compare how many people care about a clothing brand, like, the number is just, you know, just I don't know.

Speaker 1: 37:02

No, I think, and yeah, I'm probably the biggest misanthropist there is. I you know I'm not a big fan of human society, but in their defense, in our defense, I think they would be interested. I just don't think it gets in front of them. That's also the problem, because it's controlled by huge corporations that just care about money. Right, that's also the problem and.

Speaker 1: 37:25

I say it I mean media spectrum. Yeah, so I, you know, I think I have faith that people, people are interested, maybe not, maybe not the younger TikTok generation, but I think I believe that there is that, that real interest and that real fascination and curiosity, certainly for people who may not be able to go and travel and see these places or meet these people. But our human brain it is interested in that depth. It has to be because we are those people.

Speaker 2: 37:58

Yeah, I mean, the interest is there for sure, because you can see, like you know, planet Earth, for example, like people love it.

Speaker 1: 38:04

And if they don't, they've got an opinion about it, so it's still, yeah, but the problem is like there is not much.

Speaker 2: 38:09

You know, there's not many companies. Who wants to put that out there? Yeah, you know, it's not that profitable. I think that's the main problem. So money, it's always money. We're all fucked, aren't we?

Speaker 1: 38:20

That's always the problem. But you know, I feel like the world needs people like you and creatives in this space who are, who want to make an impact and want to tell stories, and even if it's for their own reasons, that doesn't matter. I think, the more and this is the beauty of this, this kind of creative revolution where we're all there are so many more creators these days, so many more people getting into filmmaking and photography and self brands, and which is which is both good and bad for many different reasons, but I feel like from that will come, will come more and more good and more interesting stories, and that's that's really what drives Kyroste. And hopefully and that's the beauty of YouTube as well it's not. I mean, it is controlled by one of the biggest companies in the world, being Google, but if people want to make something and put it out there, they can make something and put it out there. There's so few barris to entry. In fact, there's nothing.

Speaker 2: 39:21

You just need the internet.

Speaker 1: 39:26

Which is there for almost the whole population. So that's the beauty of it. Now it is algorithm driven. How do you talk to me about your social media world and how much attention you put into that and how you, whether you care about the algorithm, because YouTube still has an algorithm where we like it or not. You know I have to go through my titles and descriptions. Is it SEO optimized?

Speaker 2: 39:52

Is it?

Speaker 1: 39:52

going to grab attention, but am I making sure I don't dilute the content or this? Or you know, if I have a guest on, I don't want to do them a disservice by putting a shit description on. So it's and I'm sure the same goes through your mind. Or do you care about that kind of thing, or do you just? I want this is what I want to make. It's going to go out there.

Speaker 2: 40:11

Yeah, I don't want to care about it, but I have to care about it because, unfortunately, that's part of the game. And if you want to be successful, if you want to have this as a business, you need to understand all of the business side of it and algorithm, and you know titles and marketing, all of it. It's, it's part of it because you need to. You know you can be the most successful, the most amazing, you can be the most amazing filmmaker in the world, but if you don't know how to market yourself, if you don't know, like, how to write a title for your YouTube video, no one's going to know about you. So you need to put a time and like then find out what is the best thing to do and stuff.

Speaker 1: 40:54

How do you write a title for your YouTube video? Sounds a silly question, but I struggle with it. There's chat, gpt, there's there's Google. There's all these tools that you know that you, you can use. But yeah, it's really difficult.

Speaker 2: 41:09

It's hard. I think the way I do it, elise, is I kind of you know, once every couple of weeks I brainstorm a bunch of ideas and I just write them down on my notion template and you know I go through them every, yeah, one or two weeks and like I take off the one that I don't think they work. And I say, once a month I have at least like 20 to 30 ideas that I 100% know it's going to be good, it's going to be good videos idea. But then I run this through chat, gpt. Sometimes I just like write the title Like, is this going to be, does this have viral potential? And then it gives you, like, different options. There's a bunch of tools like vid IQ, which is like a YouTube optimizer tool that you can, you know, find keywords and stuff like that. Or the easiest way, actually, it's just write the title on YouTube and see if something comes up. Yeah, and then if something comes up, if it has a lot of views and it's recent, then there's an audience for it.

Speaker 1: 42:09

Yeah that's a good idea.

Speaker 2: 42:11

Yeah, so I think that's. That's the best way to do it Just find an idea, write it on YouTube. Has it been like the past six months? Someone made a video about it or something similar. A lot of people watched it. Then there's an audience.

Speaker 1: 42:24

Okay, and to be successful on YouTube or whatever you're aiming your skills at. There's obviously many, many pieces of advice and people want to know they can watch a YouTube channel. But I wanted to kind of strip that back and ask exactly what success means to you. How would you define it for yourself?

Speaker 2: 42:49

Success is waking up in the morning and being able to do absolutely anything you want. I think, when time stops being like a problem, I think that's where success is, and it doesn't even have to be like ending related to money. I think it's just being able to do what you do on a daily basis without worrying about anything. So are you there?

Speaker 1: 43:17

I'm pretty close, I think.

Speaker 2: 43:19

I think I'm pretty close, yeah, because I mean there is like different side of success. For sure, you know you can be successful like business you can be successful in, you know, social media, you can be successful in many things.

Speaker 1: 43:35

But overall success for me it's just being able to kind of do whatever you want every day Is leaving a legacy of that success important to you, or is it just enjoying the process as you go through?

Speaker 2: 43:50

I think both. Yeah, I think, because there is so many levels and steps of success. I feel like once you get to the point that you're already doing kind of what you want to do, you already achieve such success. You already achieve success. But then there is so many levels. You know you can be successful in the sense that you can do whatever you want every day, but you want to be successful in business because you want to get X amount of money, for example. So there is a process between levels of success that you're already successful but you want to get more successful. And if you're able to enjoy both, then one.

Speaker 1: 44:33

How do we prevent ourselves from always wanting the next thing?

Speaker 2: 44:38

That's a bad question.

Speaker 1: 44:43

Or does it?

Speaker 2: 44:44

not matter, I think. As long as you're always happy with what you have, I think that's all it matters.

Speaker 1: 44:54

How do you be happy with what you have?

Speaker 2: 44:56

There is a quote I read no longer ago, which like blew my mind, which is Wait wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2: 45:04

You already achieved goals. You said they would make you happy. Yeah, and like when I heard, I was like, oh shit, okay, that's it. Like I was like, if I move to Bali one day, I'll be happy, if I, you know, don't have to get client work anymore, I'm happy If I get a thousand views. I'm happy If I get a hundred thousand views. I'm happy. Like I already achieved things that I said they would make me happy. So why am I not happy sometimes? So I'm like when I read that, I'm like, oh okay, everything's fine, because I can tell you why.

Speaker 1: 45:42

Because desire is the fundamental basis of human existence, because we, whether it's whatever level of life you're at or whatever demographic you're in there's. You wake up every day and you want something. So that's a kind of need One. Whether you're at the bottom of that ladder and says I want food to survive, I want my kid to be healthy, or I want to go on holiday, or I want this camera or whatever it is, I want to make a difference or make an impact. I want to tell a story, I want, I want, I want. I want a beer, I want a cigarette, whatever it is Right. So it's so difficult for us innately to be able to just get rid of that. You cannot expunge that need for that, that wanting in life, whatever it may be.

Speaker 2: 46:33

I don't think that's a bad thing. As long as you manage it, I feel desire it's you know, if you know how to manage it and if you're happy with you. Know the process of getting there, because otherwise, if you would have everything you ever wanted, like what else do you do?

Speaker 1: 46:47

Well, I think that the answer not the answer, but a kind of mitigating factor is is to be grateful for what. Like you said earlier, those desires that you had 10, 20 years ago or one year ago that you can look back on and go, oh yeah, I kind of did that Right, can easily get forgotten about. So it's, I don't know how we've gone down this rabbit hole, but it's. It's definitely interesting because you're you're sat there across from me saying you know, I'm pretty, pretty happy with where I'm at Most. Most people think the word success means a million bucks. Right, I've got three houses and those people I know that do have that. They're far from happy, right. So it's, it's not, it's never, ever it's certainly my opinion and my experience ever about money or material things. It's. A lot of people will see it across from me and I'm actually one of those guys. This is about freedoms, that time and money freedom, and I think they go hand in hand.

Speaker 2: 47:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:46

Money freedom doesn't mean you have loads of money, but it means you're not worried about where the next buck is coming from. That's just stress. To get to that point, you know now. Now, kind of, I want to angle it towards your audience, my audience, and people who look at you and go, yeah, I want to do that. Or I want to be, you know, happy and I want to wake up feeling that I have a level of success in my life Right, and not be pressured to have to do this or have to go to work or be, you know, under some amount of stress, whatever that may be. Give us a kind of I guess, top down view of some advice for people who aren't quite there yet but want to do, maybe specifically, videography, filmmaking, certainly in the visual art space. Can you give us I don't know, maybe it's personal, routine stuff, maybe it's professional stuff, maybe it's educational stuff. Give us some tips and tricks that maybe people can take away with them.

Speaker 2: 48:44

Yeah, I think that the main, the main point, is that you have to really, really, really like what you're trying to do, because if you just like the, you know the outcome of it. Like you know, I want to make videos so I can have hundreds of thousands of subscribers then you're not going to be happy with it. You just have to love what you're doing. Once you find something that you love, just do it all over again. Just keep doing it, don't stop. That's pretty much everything I tell when people ask me like oh, how do I, you know, how do I get better at video? Just make videos. How do I, you know, get Instagram followers? Just post every day, twice a day. Like, think about what you're doing towards that goal and double it. I think that's, that's actually a pretty good strategy.

Speaker 1: 49:38

I think it's a great strategy. Yeah, and it works.

Speaker 2: 49:41

It works Like if you put the if you dedicate yourself to one specific thing for the rest of your life, you will get there.

Speaker 1: 49:49

I think one concern I had before. I kind of put that aside and did that as well. Just whether it's Instagram or this or photography, just do it, You'll figure it out, Like or you'll. You'll realize that you haven't figured it out, and then you'll go and figure out how to figure out.

Speaker 2: 50:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:09

One thing I was definitely concerned with was how do I put stuff out there that people like you know, and when we live in the world of YouTube, instagram, tiktok, all the other stuff that's out there, we think that's reality and we think that's like the whole world. Oh my God, I need a hundred thousand people that like me. It's like well, actually, a hundred thousand people out of seven billion is fuck all yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:35

And if you even 10,000, like if they're, if they're real people that like what you do and like you, then that's gold. But to get to that point you've got to put yourself out there, but consistently right.

Speaker 2: 50:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 50:52

I was concerned with what if people don't like my niche or my style or but 99.9% probabilities there are going to be some people that do. You're not pitching to the whole world, you're not trying to get everyone to like your stuff, the acceptance of okay. Most people either won't see it or won't like it, and that's okay. Even the biggest celebrities in the world or the biggest athletes or musicians, the majority of the world don't like them, right, but they have an audience.

Speaker 1: 51:27

I think that's very, very important for people to understand. Everyone wants to be. I just want to be popular on Instagram. I need followers, like okay, but you need to identify who's going to like your stuff. There will be and have faith that there will be people that like you and like your content.

Speaker 2: 51:42

So yeah, you know it's crazy Like you don't even need that many people. Like, if you find like a thousand people that you resonate with like crazy 1000 people, you get all of them to give you like 1000 bucks. You're a millionaire. Yeah, 1000 people. Like we can go down the road and like you know, like it's not that many people you need to find. Like you don't need an audience of 100 of 1000 people, you just need 1000 very committed ones.

Speaker 1: 52:10

Everyone's doing the maths right now 1000 times 1000. I think there's something. Yeah, yeah, because 100 times 1000 is 100,000. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2: 52:19

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:22

How do you what's, what's the future look like for Luca? How do you, you know, do you get concerned about, okay, I've got to keep moving, I've got to evolve, or you just kind of seeing where things go?

Speaker 2: 52:34

I pretty much at the start. At the end of last year I kind of sat down with myself and just looked at everything I've done for the year and I put a lot of effort into personal branding. Last year I posted a video on YouTube every single Monday for a year actually a bit more Wow. I posted a reel every single day. A reel every day.

Speaker 1: 52:56

I posted a reel every day and they were all for one year, holy shit.

Speaker 2: 53:00

And they were all original. I didn't repost anything. I shot, edited and posted something different every day. How did that go? It became pretty easy. To be honest, towards the end I was kind of used to just kind of, you know, go out and shoot enough footage that I can make different type of reels.

Speaker 1: 53:17

How did it go in terms of the results?

Speaker 2: 53:20

Tripled my following.

Speaker 1: 53:23

And on YouTube and Instagram. Youtube how did it go?

Speaker 2: 53:27

YouTube went like I went from like a thousand subs to like seven, six thousand, something Cool, just organically. And Instagram I went from like 14, I think I was to 34, now 34. Yeah, so it works, consistently works, but that's not even like the results. It's not what, like keeps me hooked. What keeps me hooked is that if I look at what I was posting like a year ago and what I'm posting now and the way I evolved as a filmmaker and just the way I shoot, the way I edit, the way I color grade all of it Like I look at reels that I made or videos YouTube videos that I made a year ago and I'm like, why did I post that? Like, making so much content made me such a better, like all-round filmmaker.

Speaker 2: 54:21

And I sat down with myself at the end of last year and I was like, okay, this is what happened. I'm very happy with the results, but I want more, because we have desire. How do I get that? What's the next steps and stuff? And I was like, well, what I can do is staying true to my words, which is, if I want to get somewhere else, it just doubled the work that I did last year.

Speaker 2: 54:47

So I'm going to post a reel every day, but I'm going to step up the quality of the reel. I'm going to make a lot more kind of storytelling, a lot more thought, a lot more like a lot more quality overall in the reels. Like sometime last year I kind of lucked, you know, like, oh I have to just post something, let's just quickly edit this, like this year. I want to every day. Just, you know, instead of spending an hour into a reel, I'm going to spend two to three hours. Just make that a priority. Instead of spending, you know, five hours a week to make a YouTube video, I'm going to spend like 15 hours and make two YouTube videos a week instead. So I'm going to just like take what I did last year and double it. Wow, because I see the opportunity that comes with it. First of all, I see where I want to go and the only way to get there is just being consistent.

Speaker 1: 55:38

So the opportunity you see with Instagram growth is that what?

Speaker 2: 55:41

you're saying, instagram is just kind of like I think it's still a very important platform and it has just a very easy virality chance, I feel, compared to YouTube. So I think it's like staying active and Instagram and posting every day is still very important for like an overall audience. But, with that said, I feel like YouTube is by far like the king of all platforms because of what we talked about before. Just like audience that goes on YouTube stays on YouTube, then just kind of click away within five seconds.

Speaker 1: 56:17

But if you're spending half your day on a reel, essentially yeah why is that so important to you? To grow, to grow even more on Instagram?

Speaker 2: 56:28

Because I can redirect a lot of people towards my other work and because a lot of the brands that I work with with YouTube they also want Instagram kind of linked stuff and I honestly just like to challenge myself to create a very like six to 10 second reel. That is, the people stop to watch. I find that very like, very fascinating on how you can learn how to hook people in and I feel like that's the skill.

Speaker 1: 57:02

Definitely, and the byproduct of that is that this time next year you'll be 10x better filmmaker right, Exactly Just because you'll be doing it every day, whether they're 60-second wheels or bigger YouTube ones. Yeah, I think that's really important for beginners to understand. Like you said before, just do it, but consistently. Don't do it and then have a couple of months not doing it and then try again. Yeah, just keep doing it.

Speaker 2: 57:30

Yeah Thing is like. Here's another quote. I love quotes.

Speaker 1: 57:33

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2: 57:34

Consistency doesn't guarantee that you'll reach success, but not being consistent will guarantee that you don't reach success. So who said that? Luca Epifanio? No, wow, what's the name? It was on the. I can't forget the podcast, but it was Alex Orimuzzi. Oh, yeah, okay, on this one podcast, but I don't know the name.

Speaker 1: 58:03

Million dollar offer 100 million dollar offer. Yeah, he's crazy, but he'd like to take a few bits and bobs from his experience and his knowledge. He is insane. He is insane Like he doesn't have a day. I mean, he says I can't remember last time I had to wake up and want to do this. You know, never have holidays.

Speaker 1: 58:25

Yeah, I don't fully agree with that, but Well, part of me goes what's the point of having millions and millions of dollars Exactly Like you want to? He's not doing it for the, he's not doing it purely for the money. He's doing it for the challenge, the process, the experience, and he just loves doing it. I think he would do it whether he had 100 million in the bank or 100,000 in the bank personally.

Speaker 2: 58:46

But I feel like those people just build for that, like Gary Vee. Yeah, it's like working the whole day, every day, and I'm not one of them.

Speaker 1: 58:55

No, I'm not one of them. But you kind of have to work really hard to get to a point where you don't have to work hard, exactly.

Speaker 2: 59:01

Yeah, it's exactly.

Speaker 1: 59:03

Got a question. We're going to end with a couple of questions. One is from our previous guest, Jakob Kluba. You know Jakob. I've never met him, but I know all this work. Yeah, his question was. You kind of answered this already, but maybe clarify what is the biggest challenge for you right now.

Speaker 2: 59:23

I think Can answer it two ways. Can answer it whichever way you want, all right. So the biggest challenge for me right now it is being able to manage my desire to get where I want to be with my filmmaking career, with my business and my desire to serve. Okay, so, as a surfer, it is the most addictive thing I ever did in my life and waking up in the morning and seeing that the waves are perfect, but that I also want to shoot two YouTube videos. It is a very hard choice because if I go serve, I'm happy, but I'm too exhausted afterwards to do pretty much anything, especially like shooting YouTube videos. I just can't get my head around. I need to be fresh, I need to be very focused, or I can do all the work first and then go serve after, but then it might be a bit windy.

Speaker 1: 1:00:29

These are great first world problems that you have. It is Do I serve or make a video that goes back to being a freedom?

Speaker 2: 1:00:36

part. That's great. I think that is one of the biggest challenges, because I am very addicted to it, and Mel is as well your partner right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

But if we're only talking about business side, it's just I struggle to focus on the right thing at the right time. I feel sometimes I would be waking up in the morning and I'll start doing something and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll stop this, I'll just do this later and then I'll start doing something else, and then I kind of stop that and I just keep putting my attention to the wrong, like two different things, instead of focusing on one thing and just getting that done. And I think that's just the way I work, though. I'm just multitasking. I don't like to focus myself on one thing, but sometimes the challenges are just the same. Sometimes the challenge because I want to get that video done, but my head is like no tomorrow.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

I know that feeling Okay, whatever, how do you get in a or should I say where and when are you in a flow state where that focus is like just so dark, 5.30 am until 8.00 am.

Speaker 2: 1:01:50

Okay, like I am a very early morning person, also linked to surf because usually we surf a lot with sunrises but, work wise, I absolutely love waking up at like 5.00 to 5.30.

Speaker 2: 1:02:05

And between 5.30 to 7.30, I could do most of the work of my day because I'm just like my phone is like kind of off on the side, there's no distractions, it's kind of dark still outside. My dog is embarking because there's no one on the road. A male is mostly asleep until like 6.30 or something. So I'm like by myself just like on my laptop, and I get so much shit done, yeah, and then you just downhill from there, but I imagine surfing.

Speaker 1: 1:02:36

If you go surfing as well, that's a flow state and it's very therapeutic because you just it is that is, nothing else matters. I think that's.

Speaker 2: 1:02:46

I think that's what's addicted, addicting from it. It's that you're literally in a place where you can't have your phone, like you're one-on-one with nature and just the actual like surfing away. It is so addicted Like you always want one more and that's a problem, yeah, but luckily we live on the best place on earth for it, so Best place on earth, wow yeah. Uluwato is probably the best place to surf because of the way it's shaped.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

So Interesting. Yeah, we'll leave that for another conversation because I know nothing about surfing, but I'm intrigued, that's all right, we'll end with a lucky dip conversation card. So you know we talked about this. If you want to just pick any cards and then hand it to me, okay, interesting, I'm extremely scared. Yeah, what do you promise to do to make our world a better place?

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

Oh, that's a new one. Surf more.

Speaker 1: 1:03:53

Surf more. What does that one Work less?

Speaker 2: 1:03:56

No, I promised a couple of years ago when I actually made the first NGO project and I kind of fell in love with it. I just kind of promised myself that I want to tell more true stories rather than just tell what everyone else is telling. So that's a perfect example of you know, instead of telling you know. The same story about Bali. I want to tell actual story of actual people in Bali and I think just being able to tell the story of someone who doesn't have the chance of telling their stories and with that, being able to help them, Do you find some people don't want their story told, they don't get, just leave me alone, not in Bali.

Speaker 2: 1:04:43

Yeah, they're pretty friendly.

Speaker 1: 1:04:45

Not in South Asia, I feel.

Speaker 2: 1:04:47

Yeah, I'm not sure. I feel like in Asia in general, people are pretty open to it and they actually enjoy it. Especially in Indonesia, especially in Bali, people are the nicest I've ever met, to be honest. But you know, I guess it's different in the Western world. What about in Italy? Have you ever done much work there? I haven't, actually. No.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

I moved out of.

Speaker 2: 1:05:09

Italy. I moved out of Italy when I was 18. So I kind of grew up, left it behind yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:16

Well, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you. Thanks so much for joining. Wish you the best of luck with battling your demons when it comes to surfing and making videos. Thank you, chairman, and good luck with the Borneo project, and I'm sure, hopefully, we definitely should chat about maybe collabing on some of the Bali stuff, at least when the ceremonies come around, because that'd be cool.

Speaker 2: 1:05:37

Let's do it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

But yeah, until then, thanks so much, thank you, Cheers, cheers.