Lukas Dvorak's Fashion Photography Journey: From Frame to Fame, E038

In this episode of the MOOD Podcast, join me as I talk with Lukas Dvorak's journey from fashion photography to his current status as a beacon of beauty and innovation. Through the toil of 54 projects over 2 years and the crafting of multiple photography books, Lukas lays bare the trials and triumphs of an artist’s journey. His candid reflections on missed opportunities serve as a beacon for listeners, exhibiting the path through the ever-changing landscape of photography.

As we wade through the philosophical depths of AI's role in the future of creativity, Lukas sheds light on his transition to Fujifilm and the unique philosophy behind his exclusive workshops. His thoughts on a potential foray into music production remind us that the heart of creativity beats in many forms. Awaiting his next venture with bated breath, I give you, Lukas Dvorak.

Please feel free to explore Lucas's incredible work through his platforms below:
Instagram: @lukasdvorakstudio
Website: www.lukasdvorak.net

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Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

My first editorial was for my interfere. You know, I am a photographer for almost 20 years. I'm not afraid of AI. You will always think something new in your head and that AI will need to copy from you.

Speaker 2: 0:13

How did you pick up the skill and how would you teach it today?

Speaker 1: 0:17

In the beginning I was shooting every day, every day. Sometimes I was shooting 45 days in a row. Wow, this is like crazy, you know.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Why black and white?

Speaker 1: 0:24

So I feel like liking my photography is deep.

Speaker 2: 0:26

I'm interested to hear about your process.

Speaker 1: 0:29

For the last two years I shot about 54 projects. I was shooting all, I think all the brands I had Canon, nikon, olympus, sony, you know, pentax, hasselblatt, you know. I tried all the cameras.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Give us one bit of, or one favorite piece of advice there. Maybe you don't cover in your workshop. How do you think about constructing a book and putting the sequence together?

Speaker 1: 0:52

I was shooting three days one image. Doing hard work means you will get a lot of experience.

Speaker 2: 0:56

What is one mistake that you have made that you've been scared to address or reconcile?

Speaker 1: 1:01

I consider it a mistake that I left the biggest opportunity in my life.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Welcome to another episode of the Mood Podcast. Today, lukas Dvorak joined me in the studio as we sat down and enjoyed discourse surrounding all things art, photography, business, nostalgia, techniques and believe it or not nudity. From a young age, lukas was determined to become a professional photographer, and he didn't shy away from the amount of hard work that it would entail, and this is really visible in how he presents himself and how he talks. He practiced until his fingers were so sore for many hours at every day. When he was younger, he also sought advice from experienced photographers and read many, many books to learn more about the art itself. He studied other authors, learned to print his own works, accept criticism and generally be a humble person. He knew that luck wouldn't come all by itself, and more time and hard work he invested, the better photographer and person he would become.

Speaker 2: 2:07

He ended up doing a lot of work for major magazines and fashion brands, having done projects for Vanity Fair, harpers Bazaar, marie Claire and many, many more. He's also a proud ambassador for Fujifilm, so his success and the pathway to it speaks for itself. He started his journey by shooting women's portraits and hasn't really looked back. He realized that every step and decision led him to where he is now, and it was his personal work through which he was trying to get better every day. I really enjoyed hearing about his unique style, his voice, his process and his outlook on photography life. I really look forward to seeing the result of his current project, his third photography book. Now I bring you Lucas Dvorak. Lucas Dvorak, welcome to the Moo podcast. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 3:04

It's great to have you. We don't know each other, but I've been following your work, certainly since I met Stefan Kotis, who you're friends with, so thanks to him, he put us in touch and glad to grab you while you're in Bali. Before we start properly, give us an introduction of who you are, what you do and what's led you to this point where we're sat across from the desk together.

Speaker 1: 3:32

So I am a photographer for almost 20 years, I think, and since my long career, I can say now I was mostly a fashion photographer and advertising photographer, and besides that, I was shooting nudes because in, I think, like 2007, my girlfriend asked me to shoot her naked and since the time I like it, you know. So I was doing like this kind of like secondary product of my work was like this shooting nudes. You know, in the past I was able to do like one, two, three projects per year, and now actually it's like a 50 50,. You know, I'm spending my time in photography by shooting nudes and doing advertising and I'm giving it as the same time as my fashion photographer, for example, you know.

Speaker 1: 4:28

So I'm enjoying it and I believe like this is the way that I can do it freely, because also for me as a photographer, it's something that I can have. This kind of big freedom, you know, doing what I want, you know, which is in the beginning, was impossible because you need to make money, money, money, you know, and to have your apartments are like this. And now I am more free and I can do stuff what I like, you know, and I don't need to spend so much time with the clients, for example. You know it's like a dream.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Yeah, it is. I was dreaming about it for many years, you know, and you don't even realize that you are starting to be like that way. And then, after three years, it's like, oh really, I actually I'm not really in my dream. Yeah, it's good, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Did unpack the kind of genesis of your photography journey a little bit. How did you start and how long did it take you to really kind of find that?

Speaker 1: 5:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:24

I guess that that start.

Speaker 1: 5:26

I think that I came from a different era and, for example, for young photographers today, it was totally different, because I was on the edge of the moment when the photographers were using film cameras and digital cameras just came, you know. So there was like this first, let's say, affordable camera, canon 303, which is like six megapixels, you know, as my first camera, you know, and this transition was good for, because in the time everybody was using films and I was one of the first was using digital, you know, and let's say there were also in the city. There was like only few photographers. You know, imagine that now we have 10,000 photographers living in Prague. Everybody wants to make fashion. That time was like five photographers, you know. So it's totally different.

Speaker 1: 6:15

And when I was starting, actually I wasn't talented, you know. I kind of first three years I was shooting just my grandmother, I don't know, like some box fields, you know flowers, and I don't even know that I will be photographer. You know, it was kind of hobby, you know. Then I traveled to New Zealand where I actually shoot some nature, and I made some kind of first exhibition out of it. And when I came back to Prague my friend told me like look, you should do. You should go to this workshop of the fashion photography it's, you know like you will shoot the girls there. I was like why not? You know, it was like kind of cheap, that the time was like 50 years or something, you know. So I applied and I went to this workshop and there was standing girl in the swimming suit. She was like oiled. Some guy told me like to use the flash, like that, and I was like, wow, I like it and I press the button. That's the moment I know that I will be doing this, you know. So, yeah, and then you know the time was going and I started shooting girls and then I actually, when I start to do something better and better I start to do. I start to be assistant of one year firm for about like one and a half year and in after that one and a half year he told me like look, as you will be too good, you cannot work for me anymore and go, go to somewhere else. Go, don't spend your time in in Europe, go to some in Prague, go to Europe, you know, go to Paris, london, milan. So I decided to go to Milan and I was living there for six years and actually my career started there.

Speaker 1: 7:51

Because when I came to Milano this kind of very nice and long story about Milan I came to Italy where all the photographers were kind of lazy, you know. So when I go to agencies and start to do photo test a sign of kind of basic first money to my first income I showed the test and I send the images in the night. And the agency was like how is it possible that you send it in the night, like I should it and I retouch it and I send it to you? And they told me like but normal photographers in Italy they should the test and they send the images in one month, you know, and can you do it like this all the time? Yes, so they were like okay, so we will pay you, you know, and they actually start to pay me.

Speaker 1: 8:36

An agency, every agency, want to work with me because I always shoot the images and I send it in the evening. And normally, if you imagine the models, they were coming for the one month and they were receiving the images after one month. For the photographers it was kind of useless, you know. So I was like giving this in the day of shooting. So everybody wants to work with me, you know. So I actually became a best test photographer in Milan in just three months, you know, because I was fast. I was not good as them, but I was fast and that was good for them, for the market, you know.

Speaker 2: 9:09

Explain what you mean by test photographer.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Yeah, it's something like that young model. She's coming to the Milano or like some other fashion city and she need to have a some book. You know some basic images. Most of the time you need to shoot her the way that she is looking very nice on the images, kind of like nice and simple styling. Also, the images should be, let's say, timeless, you know, so that she can have it in her book for some kind of longer time, longer period. You know, for example, if you put some styling which is like a typical of the season, you know some trend which is only like one year, then the images she can throw, you know, for example.

Speaker 1: 9:50

You know, but the photo test is kind of like really the basic structure of her book and they are simple, beautiful black and white. She can use it for many years actually, you know. So all the girls they need the photo test also because they do some commercial, they have a lot of makeup. So at the photo test you use kind of simple makeup, simple hair, simple styling, and they really need it because from these images the clients can see how actually the girl is looking like. You know.

Speaker 2: 10:22

So you went from test photographer to lead photographer at some point. Where was that transition?

Speaker 1: 10:28

The transition was like that I was shooting a lot of tests, you know, and my tests were appearing on the set cards and then they were traveling around Milan because all the people were like watching the cards and they were like asking, like who is shooting all these images? Because it looks like one photographer is shooting all of it, you know. And then one agent called me that he was seeing these set cards and he would like to meet me. And it was Giorgio Reposito. At the time he was, I think, one of the best agents in Milano. And I came to him and imagine, I was like a young boy, you know, from Czech Republic. In my book there was only photo tests and like maybe three, four, five great images. I never shot any fashion editorial before. And he told me, like look, I like your work, actually I would like to represent you. I was like really, oh, nice, thank you, you know. And then he told me like, but now you have to make a book. And I said, like I have a book, you know, I brought my book, you know, like from my country, kind of like plastic, cheap thing, and he was like no, no, no, no, this is not book. And in Milano.

Speaker 1: 11:31

That time was kind of nice that that was the rule. There are two families in Milano. They are producing the books. You can select one of them. If you don't have book from these families, nobody will respect you here. I said, like okay, we will do it. And he told me, like okay, it will cost you like 3000 euros. I was like that's all my money, don't worry, you will make the money. So I spent all of my money on creating this kind of book. It was like a big book, really heavy.

Speaker 1: 11:59

We put the kind of few photo tests I had, and he told me when we was finished that he is sending it to Franca Sosani. Franca Sosani was the chief director of Italian book, actually the main person in fashion industry, you know in the world, like the one you know. And I was like are you crazy? You cannot send it. You know like I don't have nothing. Why are you sending it to this lady? You know it's like she's the best of the best. You know like it's like no, no, no, trust me, it will be okay. And so he sent it to Franca Sosani and Franca Sosani agreed that I can shoot for Valentifer because she was also directing Valentifer at the time, and so my first editorial was for Valentifer. You know, wow, it was like crazy, you know. I then I was shooting. It was very hard for me because I didn't have experience. I was still a young boy, you know like.

Speaker 1: 12:50

I think I was like 20, 26, 24, 24, 25, something like that, and so I was shooting this editorial with this amazing stylist, amazing team and actually the whole thing was like going it away it's way and I was like kind of like not able to direct it because everybody was so experienced. And I was like kind of like this guy, you know, like watching what's going on, you know, and we shot the editorial actually and it was released after I think seven or eight months and when I opened it, the Valentifer on the first pages, the first editorial pages, was Patrick de Marchele, the time the most well-paid photographer in the world. You know, then was me and then was Steven Maisel the best photographer of the time.

Speaker 1: 13:45

you know of that time I was like, oh my God, I am between these two guys. You know it's crazy. It's like you know you do first thing and you became like the two biggest legend in the world.

Speaker 1: 13:55

You know like so it was like yeah, it was like, you know, like yeah, and actually I was lucky because my editor was kind of like more fashionable. They were shooting some things, you know, shopping market and and and Patrick De Marchier was shooting some glow on the bicycle, you know, kind of like simple thing. For them was kind of like something not so good, they don't need it for too much, but for me it was like I need to show myself, you know. So actually it wasn't looking so bad between them, you know. So I was happy about it.

Speaker 2: 14:20

So they obviously saw something in you like obviously skill, talent, style, whatever it was. What do you think it was that they really spotted, I think they.

Speaker 1: 14:31

What they saw was kind of in my black and my photographic. They saw this kind of like a timeless thing, you know, like something that I have it in my images. When you open my images, you don't know what time they were shot and and also I'm spending a lot of time to make women very nice, you know. So I think they saw this, you know, from the, from the scratch, from the, from the beginning. They saw it, you know, and many people after told me that this is kind of like my strongest page. You know my work, you know. So I think they already recognize it. Even I wasn't able to recognize it, but they already knew it, you know. There's something about that, you know, and the time after proved that it was there, but maybe not in the fashion way, but more in the artistic way, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:20

Would that be, then, your advice to other photographers that want to kind of do what you do is to you know that, timelessness being an important part of what they should try and focus on.

Speaker 1: 15:31

Hmm, I think it's difficult to say because everybody has a different, let's say different way of thinking. You know I am, my side is Virgo. I'm very taking care of details, you know, and I'm very precise in the work. Some people cannot do it. Some people need some kind of chaos. Some photographers are more documentary way. Everybody is different way so they work a different way. So my way is my way, because I am. My personal days like this way, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:01

So I will spend a thousand minutes of shooting one particular image to make it perfect. You know, a lot of photographers will be bored, all the people will be bored with that, but I really want to make it perfect, you know. So this is the way. So every piece of the hair, tiny movement like this, tiny movement like this, everything must be perfect. You know, this is like how I work, but maybe for some people, like they are like similar person like me, it will be the way you know. And why timeless? A timeless is good in the one thing that if you hang picture on the wall, you know it will look great in 50 years, but if you hang it now, people will think like, oh, it was shot in 90s but it's not now they don't know how or what was time was shot, and that means like timeless.

Speaker 1: 16:47

Great timeless image is like that. You don't put anything which is like stick in the time. So, for example, some shoes which is that season shoes, or some hat which is like modern or something. You just putting things which are you don't know what time they are coming from. You know, so that's that's that you have to create, thomas, and also you give it some style. You know like you have to give it some kind of like wow, beautiful, let's say harmony, you know, and these things you know.

Speaker 2: 17:17

So but when you're thinking fashion photography, that's kind of a paradox, because fashion is the opposite of timeless, exactly In that time. Yeah, how do you balance the two?

Speaker 1: 17:29

Yeah, you nicely pass me, because the thing is, that's why I find out that I cannot be a fashion photographer.

Speaker 1: 17:38

You know I have to be an artist or artist like a shooting news, because in news I can use this thing, but in fashion I am like, let's say, stuck in the 90s. Let's say, you know, because, for example, I lived in New York also for a while and I met the jet route and jet route was one of the best agents of the photography in the from I don't know like what time, but I met him and he was watching my portfolio, my fashion. It was like look at us, it's kind of nice, you know, but you will not make a hole in the world with that, you know. Like you know, there's many photographers like this In the world. If you go back to your country, maybe you will make nice money there, you know, but in New York you will never, you will never make it, you know.

Speaker 1: 18:20

But then he opened my news. I was like, oh my God, this is the thing you can actually be, best fashion, best new photograph in the world, but not fashion, you know. And people were telling me this and when this kind of like big guy told you, it's like like a stamp, you know, like, yeah, actually they are right, you know, and he's the right, and he was right about it. So after hearing this, I decided to go more into the artistic way of shooting news and I actually became myself, which I should be before but I want to be like fashion photograph, fashion photograph, fashion photograph. And then I recognize actually I am not fashion photographer and the new photographer, you know, but I brought a lot of experience from fashion, you know, like posing, lighting and communication and things and business Also, you know. So my new photography is not, will be not existing without my fashion experience. Let's say yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Why black and white?

Speaker 1: 19:22

That's a nice question. Actually, I can. I can expect it by two ways. One way is like more like a biological, maybe like a physical. It's like that when you see a lot of colors, you know your brain is occupied with the colors. You know because there's a lot of things and you know when you see it there's somebody thinking about it, there's somebody thinking about color. So you see red, blue, green and that, but when you take it, take it away, you see only atmosphere. You see more deeper in the like, in the people, and you have kind of, I think, like you expose more emotion from the images. You know.

Speaker 1: 19:58

Then, with colors, so I feel like black and white photograph is deeper. It's like taking off some kind of layer that you can go deeper inside. You know light personalities, you can see eyes and these things and on the other hand, it looks more cool, I think, for me, like you know. I like it because I don't need to think about it as a red, blue, green. You know how to make some kind of like triangle of colors, you know, and I can just concentrate on the shooting itself. You know.

Speaker 2: 20:26

Have you ever shot color? Yeah, of course, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:30

I'm. My Instagram is black and white only, but of course when I do some commercial stuff I have a lot of color for images. Also on my website sometimes they're appearing and I, but most of the time, like for my stuff, I should only black and white. I don't want to interrupt it with the colors. I think I tried sometimes it looks nice actually in color sometimes, but I don't want to kind of. I'm kind of like running in my style and I don't want to just You're consistent, yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:56

How did you? How did you learn photography? I mean, I don't want to rewind too much. How did you learn photography and then fast forward to now? How would you kind of? I know you're doing some workshops in the future, but the 20 years from when you learn photography to now is obviously the landscape is vastly different. How did you pick up the skill and how would you teach it today?

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah, that's it. I think that let's say like 50% of the what I know it's experience. You know, when you are shooting a lot, I was shooting a lot for imagine this little story I was doing worship and I was telling people, you know, you needed to do it for 10 years to became a professional, you know. And there was a guy he said like, but I'm doing it 10 years, but I'm not so good. I said like, so how many times a week you shoot? And he replied me like how many times a week? I shoot? Months to two months. I said okay. I said like I can squeeze your life into my weeks, you know, because I was shooting two projects per day In the beginning. I was shooting every day, every day, like there was no single day. Sometimes I was shooting 45 days in a row and it's a hard work, you know. So doing hard work means you will get a lot of experience.

Speaker 1: 22:10

And on the second part of my knowledge is books. I read a lot, you know, like I read philosophy, psychology, business, and I read a lot, you know, and also I'm kind of philosopher, so I do a lot of thinking about what I'm doing. Also, I'm trying to write now the book about photography, but not from like a perspective, like how to shoot, but kind of like from inner of yourself. You know, like about your inner voice, how to listen it, how to do creativity, how kind of like creative process you know, and kind of like more like inner work you know, not like the skills, because actually the photography skills you can learn now on YouTube. You know like everybody can have the basic knowledge. You know Every photographer who is starting now, for example, I see, like all the photographers who are starting now, started in a higher quality than me because they have technology, they have YouTube and they can start like this, you know, but not more. Most of them will make it higher because actually they don't think about photography so deeply. You know they can get this basic experience and they are stuck with this basic experience for many years. But my way was very slow, very slow and deep and deep, and that's why it was different. I think, like when I spoke with other like great photographers, they were doing it the same way. You know it was taking a lot of years to become very good because the process was very slow and the teaching was very slow and deeper and deeper. So now you will get everything very quickly, but you are stuck with that knowledge, you know. So, I think, reading the books, trying to work very hard and wait for many years, and then you will get it.

Speaker 1: 23:57

You know it's not easy. You cannot make it like this. You know, some people of course are very talented. They are very good in a few years, but they are only one percent of the photographers who actually are so talented that they can really go like very quickly into the industry and become very good. But most of the people need time. You know it's experience. It's a long time process, you know you need to. You know you said today, maybe the coffee. You know one coffee you need to. You know work with that, try many options and make it best. You know. So it's the same with the photographic.

Speaker 2: 24:26

I think that's just the beauty of art. There's no such thing as quick art and unfortunately, we're in a society today where everything is needed now, need it now, need it now, need it now. I need all of your information in a 60 second reel, or I need to all of your information. If it's longer than 10 minutes YouTube video, I'm not interested. You know, this is what we're battling with tonight.

Speaker 2: 24:50

And so I feel like there is a generational gap these days, and I totally agree with you and everything you just said I always talk about like mindful photography, and take your time, learn, patient, have patients, try, fail, try, fail. Learn from those experiences and don't just create for an algorithm or don't just create for a click or don't just create for a technical competency right, you have to have technical competencies, but that's just the beginning. To be able to learn and to know yourself as much as anything else and to understand what you're trying to say and how to say it, that takes years and years and years.

Speaker 2: 25:29

So you can see the differences between those types of artists, and maybe one isn't necessarily better than the other, but I would say one means more than the other, or one kind of artist in this area means more than an artist that can just kind of create something that looks beautiful, you know. So how do you receive feedback, and especially when you first started? Obviously it sounds like your lucky break was Fanity Fair and getting some amazing feedback from that, but you must have had some criticism along the way and changing that into a really profound learning experience. I feel like that is another issue that photographers have today, especially with social media. It's like oh, I didn't get enough likes on that, so I'm going to give up and other photographers be like I didn't. That one didn't get received very well. Even though it's fucking algorithm, that one didn't get received very well, I'm going to try even harder, right? So you have this kind of how was your experience, certainly in your first evolving years?

Speaker 1: 26:35

Yeah, I think, like the I, in the time there was no social media, you know so, but there was a. In my country there was this kind of server which was called photo Patrick in transition. It's like a photo searcher. It was a community of photographers and models, you know. So you can sign up there and then you, you can, you can search for the models, you can put the image in the gallery. You will get some score, like that. So that was kind of motivating the time because, like you know, you want to be very good, so you want you try to better, to get some better points, you know, like that.

Speaker 1: 27:10

On the other hand, there was, there was a lot of people around me who were criticizing me, like, even like sometimes when I was young, I was kind of like, let's say, not behaving the best way. You know, so good people around me. They were like, look, this is not good, you don't do this, and I was recognizing it all the time. So, also, this is the process, you know, because it's not only like how you shoot but also how you behave and there's a whole package of the things. And in the beginning I wasn't able to receive the criticism you know like as usually young guy, you know, like, no, no, I'm very good. You know, I know that I understand how, what I'm doing. And then in the, in the, in the later time, you, you actually start to receive it and you start to think more and then you actually start to collaborate with people more and then you find out that you need other people to do that and you need other people to to make your work better. You know, and now I understand, like without your team, without the influence of other people, you cannot make it.

Speaker 1: 28:13

You know, and I find out this idea that this we think everybody's thinking, that is, we are unique. You know, like I'm inside me I'm unique, but it's not true actually, because I imagine, like how could? I cannot be photographer if somebody will not make the camera for me. You know, how can I be photographed? I'm very I need the people around me. So I need to produce some, somebody to make the camera for me. I need somebody to make the software for me. I need a makeup artist to make my image. I need the model to make the image.

Speaker 1: 28:44

I cannot do anything if I will be alone in this whole world. I can do nothing, you know. So I am just, let's say, kind of a person who is related to the others. You know, I got some experience from my mother, from my friends, you know, from even from people that I don't like. You know. It's experience, you know, and I'm just in the middle point of all these kind of little ways of this, you know, kind of like a quantum field, let's say, and so I'm not unique. Actually, we are all together like a humanity and we can source our knowledge from others, you know, and we need others to make our pictures great, you know. So this is like an also very nice thing which I learned in my life. You know that I cannot do it by myself, you know it's. I need others, you know, to help me with that.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Empathy is important empathy is understanding that you are not.

Speaker 1: 29:41

You know the ego right you're not the center of the universe, you're not the center of this project and like you said even if you're going out and taking photos just by yourself, you still need, yeah, the equipment.

Speaker 2: 29:54

You still need life. You still need something right, you still need your health. You still need your mind like all of this, so it's an interesting learning experience. I think sometimes just comes with age and practice and experience. Right, it's, we've all been there where we think we're the best but I think you also have to kind of go through that.

Speaker 1: 30:15

Yeah, exactly, have that self reflection when you will tell it to the young photographers. They were like they will not understand what you mean. But after 10 years they were like oh yeah, he was right.

Speaker 2: 30:26

We talked a little bit about your style in terms of, certainly in terms of black and white, and the timeless aspects of your images. What about your voice? You know, what do you? How do you think about? You know, we'll talk about your books in a minute. Books are, you know, photography books. They're really kind of an opportunity to tell the world what you're trying to say with your photos. If you were to kind of, you know, distill that down into a sentence, or how can you explain, you know, your philosophy behind your images?

Speaker 1: 30:55

I think the I was thinking about this, like why I'm doing it, you know like and actually I'm not the guy that I'm trying to say something with my images, you know like, oh, I want to save the world, blah, blah, blah. No, actually it's coming deep from my mind. I grew up in the mountains, you know, so I like nature and images, like I consider unity as a natural thing, you know so it was kind of like, just, I just felt it in my heart, like shooting girl in the nature, naked. It was kind of like something that was always in my, in my, in my, in my heart or in my, in my way. And also, since I was young, I didn't even know that I was artist. You know, I was painting my room. I was just buying, I was just bringing some branches of trees and make the colors on them, you know, and that was kind of like artists. I didn't know that I'm artist, but I was just always doing something. Then I was doing music. You know I paint, I was doing some graphics and still I wasn't able to recognize that I'm actually artist. You know, I was always thinking like I need to study philosophy and these things, and then I recognize I'm artist. So and then when you recognize it, you start to do art, you know, start with photography.

Speaker 1: 32:09

I think everything was kind of like in the flow, you know. So I was doing things which I like to do and it was kind of like I never have to say like I. I think like I was listening to my inner voice from the beginning. You know, like this way that I just shoot what I like to do, and now I'm listening to even more. As I said in the beginning, I'm doing 50 times for 50% of my time, doing like my creative stuff.

Speaker 1: 32:40

And before it was a little bit less, you know, but it was there. You know I always want to do something like that. It was kind of my vision. So it was generally created in my brain and it was there. So I think that it's kind of like something which is in my like, in a part of my myself. You know, like nature, beautiful woman, sense for the details, you know I always want to have a girl's like. Look at me with the full power of the eyes. You know, kind of like that they are saying to something in their eyes. You know, making them most beautiful in the world.

Speaker 1: 33:17

You know this kind of like words which are in my head, you know, but it's hard to explain in a sentence you know it's just when you maybe when you see the images, you understand it, you know like, but I think sometimes that some things cannot be explained by words.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, Well, that's the power of photography, right? Yeah, how do your learnings with? You know the education that you give yourself with books, reading, whatever else you do? So when it comes to philosophy, business, even photography, how has that changed your photography over the last five to 10 years?

Speaker 1: 33:57

For example, the photographer needs to know something about business, because imagine that you are like there are like 10,000 in the world with millions of photographers. You know we're starting at the same point, you know, and to became better, you need to have more money to sponsor your projects you know, so you need to ask clients for more money and everybody is making it always cheaper.

Speaker 1: 34:25

You know they like to make a discount and blah, blah, blah and they go down with the prices. But they actually need to make it opposite way. You need to be more expensive. The market, kind of like, has to consider as very expensive thing, you know. And then you also became best. You know, because if you're expensive, people want you because oh my God, you know he's best, yeah, premium, you know. So actually you have to go always opposite way, not trying to make it cheaper and cheaper.

Speaker 1: 34:50

If you go in cheaper and cheaper, you will disappear in history, you know. But if you want to make it more expensive and be premium, you will be like on the top of the hill, you know. So this is the thing you know. And to ask for the good money you know, to actually, let's say, to trust your value, to know who you are, you know that you have like 20 years of experience, so you need to charge people for this, you know. And they of course, like I think, like one architecture said one day that you're not paying me for what I'm doing, but you're paying for my 30 years of experience something like that. You know. So that's the thing you know, so what if you don't have much experience?

Speaker 1: 35:30

Everybody was starting with no price. But definitely don't make all the time discounts, you know. Try to when you feel that you have some value, then you know charge of clients for more, you know.

Speaker 2: 35:42

It's. I empathize with the young photographers these days. I mean I. There is an issue that we're all facing. It's, you know, like I said, there's 10,000 for every you know client pitch now, rather than 20 years ago, where it's a little bit less. It's probably in every genre of photography. So there is a. There is a competitive problem that individual photographers have to overcome when they're trying to pitch for money, right, but also when someone does there's a. There's a lot of photographers certainly young, young photographers who are doing free collaborations right, which doesn't help the rest of us.

Speaker 2: 36:19

Yeah you know it's. It's these, these clients and these brands get used to Cheap or free. Free stuff, right.

Speaker 1: 36:27

Yeah, from from photographers.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Yes, that's a big mistake, yeah you know, you can kind of see it's a really difficult Dicotomy, because you want these guys, these individuals. They have to start earning a living, and maybe they don't have 20 years experience, maybe they don't have two years experience, but they, they have something. But also, I feel there is a responsibility for all photographers to not, you know, bring the whole kind of ocean down to a level where it's like, well, we can't get any jobs because we're considered overpriced.

Speaker 1: 36:57

Yeah, yeah what?

Speaker 2: 36:58

where does? Where does a new photographer? How do they navigate that?

Speaker 1: 37:00

Hey, they cannot do free collaboration. For the first thing, you know, they have to always expand the clients. Actually, I paid for this camera and I pay for the apartment, and I pay for the Photoshop and capture run and I paid for the lenses. And every two, three years I need to buy another equipment and it costs like a 20,000, 30,000, 50,000 euros and my apartment cost 50,000 euros and it's a normal job like everybody's doing.

Speaker 1: 37:29

You know so why you don't want to pay me? You know, like you think it's like people sometimes for the photography and everybody's photographer like that. No, actually it's not true. You know it's the same job as others. You know, try to make, try to say, lawyer, that, oh, can you do it for? Like, yeah, operation will like, come on, you know he will start like this Already. You are paying now, you know so it's like that. You know so people needs to know that it's their job and they have to value it and they have to say like no, no, no, free collaboration, you have to pay me. It's my work, you know, and show the clients like it is like, oh, come on this, just stand up. It's like goodbye, I will not have a word with you because you're not, you are not, respect my price. You know so goodbye.

Speaker 1: 38:09

And if everybody will be doing this, clients will start to pay more. You know that's. That's a thing you know like. Actually, we as a photographer's are, teach our clients how to pay us. So if, like, a whole group of photographers are make all the time like free collaboration, clients will always want to ask somebody else for free collaboration. It's very simple. You know it's when every photographer will say like no, no, no, no, no, it will cost. One image will cost you two thousand euros. Everybody will be used that to one. Pictures cost two thousand euros and they will be paying for it. You know it's very simple. You know so. It's only like that. You know so, don't try to do free collaborations. You know that's very, very simple.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Also, if we keep doing that with you know we're a lot of photographers are worried about the threat of AI maybe not now, but there's going to be bigger and bigger threats over the next two, five, ten years, right? If we're really worried about that, then all we're going to do is drive these, these brands, to towards AI, right?

Speaker 1: 39:12

I think that I'm not afraid of AI. I Was saying it. What is it doing? And it's every, every, every person who is watching it. You see that, like all the images are same. It's like a one, like one style, you know, and it's very boring for me, you know. So it is something that is looking like cool but actually it's so boring and the people will be actually not liking it in the moment, in some time, because Everything looks the same like a woman, like a picture from a photograph around the whole world. You know. So clients will not be not, will be not buying it, and also the people will say like I want to see the real person and Real emotion. And you will see, like people will be very good. You never get bored of it, you know. I think I'm not afraid of it.

Speaker 1: 39:59

You know there will be useful tools for combination with photograph and AI, for example. You know like you want to put this and that, but it will be like a. You know, photographically, always here. You know like even like. You see, like People said, like windows are dead now. Now people are buying windows like crazy. You know that's and it's. It's like this. So also you have your unique style, you know, and I cannot steal it. You know, because you will be always advanced step, because what is AI doing? I don't even like to say AI, because it's not AI actually and it's just a one big program database with just picking things and I'd make some combination, but you will always think something new in your head and that AI will need to copy from you, you know. So you know it's a thing and maybe there will be some In 10 years.

Speaker 1: 40:48

People be so angry about it that some kind of laws will be. For example, it is actually string from us photographers, but maybe there will be laws that this like okay, no, no, no, you cannot, you cannot without any asking from the photographers. You cannot steal it, you cannot make it in your database, you know. So maybe it will end up in different way, but I'm not afraid of it. I'm actually not afraid of it. You know it looks like a big thing, but I think that it will never be so clever enough to create proper, real image. You know.

Speaker 2: 41:18

I Disagree with you a little bit, but I agree with you as well. I think it will help photography in general. I think real photography will just become more valuable, right, because it's it's now going to be competing against something that's not real and therefore a real, authentic thing is going to be. You know, it's like a copy of anything, right, it's going to be. A real Monet compared to a copy of Monet is going to the more copies you have, the more value the real thing is going to be.

Speaker 2: 41:46

I'm just worried. I'm just interested to see what happens with legislation. So how are we going to authenticate real images?

Speaker 2: 41:56

And as if that takes place, fantastic. I think it's going to help photography, because it's going to make photography more powerful, more real, more valuable. But I do think that now I agree with you like you can't, it's very difficult to make that. Like you said, it's just picking images from the web, essentially put them all together according to a prompt. I think we're just a few years away from being able to just say something and it and it come up, like if I would be able to basically, in the future, be able to take a photo of what your photos and say Make this right and it will be able to do it no problem.

Speaker 2: 42:32

Yeah, so, but what the utility that is? I don't know.

Speaker 1: 42:37

But you know, for me, if it will be working like this, I will be even more happy because I will need to try harder to make it so good that the eye I will be like, oh my god, he's doing it well, you know.

Speaker 2: 42:49

Also that you may be able to get Ruralties from that right.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah but I will never do it. I will never like give a kind of like Possibility to AI to read my stuff.

Speaker 2: 43:02

We're gonna get you on the show and find out anyway.

Speaker 1: 43:04

Anyway, facebook is about to steal it anyway. So, but also that there's a thing that that we have to be consider as an artist, you know, because I think, like a basic Think of humanity is creativity. We are creative, you know. This is like something like which is base, you know, for us, and If AI will steal the creativity from us, what we'll be doing will be so bored. Imagine now like people are bored because they have everything, but they can still create. But if the AI will steal the creativity from you, oh my god, it will can lead to big depression, you know. So, actually, you know, we are playing with something which Looking like promising, but also we are kind of like cutting branches under our legs, you know, because this can lead to more problems and more problems and more problems. You know, we only see like positives, but there will be always negatives to it, you know.

Speaker 2: 44:00

I see as many negatives. I see probably more negative positives. It depends how Society and governments are able to to manage the fall out from. It's certainly artificial general intelligence, where we're talking Almost sentient beings who are able to do everything that we do and maybe even be creative, right. Whether they're conscious or not is. Another argument, but definitely that's, that's just a matter of time. I mean, it really is just a matter of time whether it's 10 years or 100 years.

Speaker 2: 44:30

Just a matter of time is just how we will, whether there's a universal basic income and look after us, but I don't know. We can still create, even if the AI is creating.

Speaker 1: 44:42

I think like one sentence which I have in my mind is like that actually it's a part of evolution you know, it's like, you know, like I had this idea that Everything in the space is kind of like layering.

Speaker 1: 44:54

So there was like the first, we were like a part of nature. Then you have immunity, we have society, we have a, we have like a countries you know, and then we are the whole. Like a whole, like a humidity, and there's a AI over it and AI maybe will create, maybe in future, maybe AI is leading to the kind of like, kind of like got identity, you know, which will, you know, maybe influence the past? You know, you never know.

Speaker 1: 45:16

It's like it's kind of like kind of way that you can play with that. But maybe it's just evolution. You know like we will be living here in one day in In combination with AI. Maybe I will be part of us, maybe we'll be in AI. So you never know. It's like it. Maybe it's just evolution. You know like it's supposed to be like that, you know.

Speaker 2: 45:38

Hi everyone. Before I let you continue with the podcast, just indulge me for a few minutes. I want to briefly talk to you about my new brand, yore. Founded with my business partner and photographic artist, finn Mattson, we are proud to bring you a new artisanal jewelry and specialty coffee brand, yep. What on earth do they have to do with anything? Well, they're both our passions and they've always been another artistic outlet for me, now for over a decade. For those that know me, coffee and jewelry have been my other obsession since I was young and I am a qualified SCA coffee specialist. So when I met Finn, some of you might have listened to my podcast with him. When we barely knew each other, our love for art and jewelry had a home, and that home is Yore.

Speaker 2: 46:23

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Speaker 2: 47:06

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Speaker 2: 47:47

And before we head back into the podcast, please just take a moment to explore your race collection. As a special treat for you, my wonderful audience Yore is offering an exclusive discount. So head over to our website and use the code in the description for a 10% discount off your jewelry purchase. The link in details are all in the description. So thanks so much for listening and I'll let you get back to the podcast. Now let's rewind a little bit about. I'm interested to hear about your process, certainly on set, but more like you know, you have a concept. How does that get realized? From concept to final image?

Speaker 1: 48:31

Yeah, so I'm working this way. I'm trying not to be influenced by other photographers, so I'm trying to always invent my idea in my head or by watching, observing work around me. So most of the time, for example, I go run or I go to walk and I just have this creative process that I'm thinking in my head about. Okay, I have this girl, you know, she's walking in the sand. Then maybe I put this object to her. She's maybe jumping on this object, she's maybe like running, she's doing this and that, and I just playing. Then I see the ice cream, I see this, I see this and I'm trying to combine everything together and creating kind of processes, you know. So kind of like ideas I've already down, and then another one, another one, you know, and just like all the time I'm just writing like random images from my head, you know. And then I ask myself okay, it's possible that I can realize this image, I can really shoot it. Yes, of course, this is very expensive, this will be very hard to make, this will be very hard to find, and so some projects are easy to do. So I'm doing it, and sometimes I save the money for some bigger stuff. Sometimes the this kind of like complicated jobs or complicated shootings are so complicated that I, for example, paid a lot of money and I finally doesn't work, you know. And but it's experience, you know. So I will use it next time with some new experience, you know. So this is the thing, that this is kind of like my process, that I'm trying to always invent the idea in my head and I have a lot of ideas and then maybe I'm not using them directly, you know, in that year. Maybe I'm using them in 10 years because they are so complicated and I've experienced to do it. But I have the vision. So I write down like thousands and thousands of ideas. And this is the one kind of work.

Speaker 1: 50:23

And the second part is like that I'm going to the city and I see something, I see someone, I see some object, I see some place, and I just have the idea out of it, you know, so I will write it down. I see some atmosphere, I will write it down. And then I try to find like what I will add to this idea. You know, like I'm trying to play with sometimes I do a combination of these two ideas together and I'm trying to really do everything in my head, like I'm not wanting to be inspired by others, or like going and checking what somebody is doing on Instagram. That I will do.

Speaker 1: 50:54

Also, because it's happening to me all the time that, like I was here last year and there was a girl that's like, oh, I saw this image of the photo. You know, I was with the photographer and he showed me this image in his lieout and then we went to the beach and we reshoot exactly like this way. I was like why are you doing it? You know, it's like it's make your own image. Like don't try to copy, because people will know that you are only copying, you know. So I'm trying to really do everything from my head, you know, and, of course, you know the everything. People say like everything was shot. You know, but that's not true. You can always come up with some new ideas and I was thinking I was doing like some calculation if how many ideas are here, how the possibilities, and like it ended up like there's actually billions of ideas that it wasn't actually shot, you know.

Speaker 2: 51:40

So you actually did calculations? Yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 51:43

Yeah, so the possibilities are here, you know, but it needs to kind of like more dig, you know, to go deeper and find some things which were wasn't so shot or they were shot, but kind of like simple way. You know, for example, my image of fencers.

Speaker 1: 51:59

There was a lot of images you know, girl with like this cord and fencing, but I said like, okay, let's make it with the five. You know persons, you know fencing in the like a fighting, like a, like. You know this way, you know. So I showed it totally different way. You know, and you have a millions of things which were here and which are here that really were shot. Only, basically, you know and you can make the idea bigger.

Speaker 1: 52:24

You know like, for example, everybody was shooting football player. You know like it's playing football, but if you put 1000 football press on the one field, they are like kicking the boss in the air. Nobody should be following. You can always think like this. You know you can multiply the idea. You can make it. You can make underwater football why not? You know you can put football on the moon. You know you can play the football in the space. You know like there's so many options with the football. Just one idea, so just football. You know. But you can make unity football. You can make people who are eating hamburgers and running and play football. You can do some many things. So this is how my brain is working. You know like I just randomly shooting ideas like that, you know. So this is my process here.

Speaker 2: 53:07

So then, how do you set it up and how do you shoot it? You know how do you find models. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then how do you work with the model?

Speaker 1: 53:13

Yeah, so when I have the idea, I said it like, I write it down, I know, I draw a little bit, you know, and then I said, okay, I'll need this, that and this, you know, and then I'll find location, because location is mostly needed, you know, for that. And then I have like I'm in the position now that the girls actually would like to shoot with me. So I have many models you know to work with, you know, so I can just select the girl that she is actually good for this kind of project. You know, before that was harder because if you don't have portfolio and you are kind of stranger for the girls, it's kind of difficult to do it, you know. But now it's kind of easier, you know. Also you need to be professional, so you need to send them all these details like how it will be working and, you know, get some kind of trust, you know. And then still you are like a new photographer, you know. So for some people can be like, oh, who's this guy stranger writing me about?

Speaker 2: 54:09

Especially if they're gonna be naked.

Speaker 1: 54:10

Yeah, exactly yeah. So there's also like a communication. You need to say to girls how it will be processed. Call them, maybe it will meet them on coffee and explain them what is your work and it's really hard and like that, and so you will find the girl and then you go on the location and you start shooting and you will find out it doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 54:32

And then you need to actually like adapt to it and in that moment very quickly find out something else or like change your vision to something else. So actually I have these visions but they never work. Exactly how is it in my head? So, images ending up in different way, you know, different position, a little bit different lighting, but the base, the idea, is there, you know, but a little bit different way that I was thinking in the original image. So I'm not stick to the, my painting like I will do it like this exactly. No, I just this idea is just kind of like a basic carrier of that thing. And then on the location I just do random options and from that I see, oh, this is a potential, and I spend more time and when I see this really good, I finish it. You know, I told to your wife I was showing her picture today that I was shooting three days. One image here, you know, and my model she was like again, lucas.

Speaker 2: 55:31

I don't wanna shoot it again.

Speaker 1: 55:32

It's like I'm so bored. I was like, but I said, like you know, this will be like fantastic image. We need to reshoot it again, you know. And then I was reshooting it for the third day and finally I got the shot I want, you know. So sometimes it's like this you know if sometimes for the people it can be hard, because I really want to make it perfect and I spend a lot of time to and I'm reshooting my images, I shoot some image in one year. I am not publishing it because I know that it can be perfect more, better. So I'm going next year and I reshoot it and then finally I have the result I like you know. So most of the time I really reshooting projects, I just make it like a demo version and I learned from the demo and I go and make it again and again and then I have result which I like you know.

Speaker 2: 56:14

Is that why we'll bring your book out in a minute, but your recent book? I know you're working on another one at the moment.

Speaker 1: 56:21

you said it took you 13 years to kind of put that together, but it was a little bit different because that time I was doing the commercial stuff, fashion, and every year I was able to do some like kind of like three, four, five projects for myself, you know. And after COVID time I realized that really I have to do more art. So I switched to 50%, you know. So it was like a 5% to 50, you know, and it's a big change because now I'm, for example, for the last two years I shot about 54 projects. 54 projects it means like every year is like about, you know, 27, 20, yeah, 27 projects a year, which is like two projects per month, you know, which is very active, you know. So I'm trying always to do a lot. Now, you know, and so the new book will be shot in the five years, on four and a half years. It will be double sized than this book, you know. So, because I spent much more time with that, you know, let's have a look at the book.

Speaker 2: 57:29

Okay, so this book is called 13. 13. Very simply, yeah. Because, of the number of years that it covers. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:41

Also, I had an exhibition in Prague which was in last year and it was in, like Agaré, which I had the first one in 2010 and then to 1023. So I always I also call it 13. Also, 13 is kind of my lucky number. So you know, everything is like that, you know, so yeah, so this was, this is like a 13 years baby, let's say, you know, completed works from all these from the beginning of my new photograph until the 2021.

Speaker 2: 58:14

This is a beautiful image. I love the negative space, very minimalist. Yeah, there's a nice story about it.

Speaker 1: 58:19

Also Like the cover, because it was kind of like a evident not working place, kind of hotel or bar in Lagodicamo. And I'm always I'm the kind of photographer if I want to have this image, I will. I'm breaking the rules. So I jump over the fence, you know there, and I walk to the space because I knew that it will be great image. So sometimes I'm kind of like breaking the rules, you know, to make really the images you know. So exactly it was in this place and I was there back in five years ago because my friends, they want the bands, they want to make the image on the stairs. You know, when we came there to this Lagodicamo, it was actually reconstructed and the walls were higher so we can jump over them.

Speaker 1: 59:07

This is like Komo, yeah, yeah yeah, and we were like, oh my God, because we traveled from Prague to Italy, you know, it was like 12 hours of drive, you know, and we were like kind of like, oh, let's put it, we cannot make it. And then actually the owner came to this place because it was in the April or something, and he was just going to count the other city or something, you know. And I show him this image, I was shooting there a couple of years ago and it was like, oh, it's fantastic, come inside, I'm gonna make a cappuccino, you can shoot here, you know. So actually we ended up shooting there, invited by the owner there. You know, it was very funny, fantastic.

Speaker 2: 59:41

What I love the most about this image and I'm sure it was deliberate, but her hair being reflective of the top of the peaks you know white hair with the white snow cap mountains.

Speaker 1: 59:53

It looks very cool, but actually it was very windy and the whole thing was moving was moving and it was kind of colder there, you know so.

Speaker 2: 1:00:01

But Middle of the day.

Speaker 1: 1:00:04

Yeah, yeah, but the model she was always like very active and wanted to make it, you know, so it is wonderful. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:13

So you know, tell me, tell me more about putting this book together, because I know from experience, as well as talking to other artists, that put photography books together, it's a huge project, right? Where do you even you know you have all of these images? How do you think about constructing a book and putting the sequence together?

Speaker 1: 1:00:35

The first book which I made in 2010 was kind of like a little book. It was only about, I think, 17 images. But this was like a bigger thing and I started to think about it in 2017. And I created kind of demo. You know, it was kind of like book, like a square size, and I create like a five pieces of it. And I was to have a nice thing and I was just walking and showing it to people and I was in New York and I met one guy, our director, pierre Ashard, and I show him my book. It's like look, it's like it looks not good. You know, your images are amazing, but the format, the thing is really not good. And he was really good and he was helping me. We were walking and talking about my book and he was telling me how to put pictures in kind of dynamic. You know, how to make the people like breathe for a second to. You know not to like put strong images next to each other.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

Give it some kind of like consistency and also like breaks and these things and the format, like because originally there was like there was a written like where is it? And there was all the images in the white frame. Is it like? Get rid of it, you know, put everything in the back, you know, keep it like as a, as like a like a full photography book, you know, with the experiences, just about photography, and I think I spent with him like six days talking about my book, you know, and I got all these like, like knowledges, and then I went back to Prague.

Speaker 1: 1:02:18

It was 2020. And I knew that I will release it in two years, so I showed some images which I didn't publish on Instagram and everywhere. I want to make something new on my in my book, and then the easiest way how to make the book was to print all the images. I think there were like 400 candidates and I printed and I make like kind of like like a path on the ground and I put them on the ground and just like playing with the cast.

Speaker 1: 1:02:47

I was moving one here, one there, one there, and you know, like, for a week I was walking inside and then it started to be in harmony, you know. And then I know that it will be like this. So then I put the numbers picture one by one, and it was like that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:06

And a conscious decision for no writing or no titles or no captions.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

Yeah, they are, in the end, everything is in the end there's like index, the small images, and you see that there's this oh, yeah, yeah. So it's better to put it on the back, because if the image, if there will be some words under the image, it will, the images will not be so clean, you know. So I want to keep the pictures as a pictures, without any information. Then you can read after. You know, like most of the photographers, I think they are doing it in the book. You know, it's not something that I come by myself, you know, with something which is kind of standard, I think, in the books.

Speaker 2: 1:03:50

There's a lot of stillness and calm across, and then I pick a photo that's a bit more dynamic, but that is generally what I get from. From these, I mean, they're absolutely stunning and they certainly work really well together. I mean, you think, you think of? I mean how many pages this?

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

is like about 200.

Speaker 2: 1:04:12

Yeah, I mean, you'd think just as a concept, with a model, a woman model, beautiful woman, naked, in every, every page. You think, well it's. You know 200 pages of that can be a little bit, you know, samey, but it's absolutely not. It just there's so much complexity and so much kind of emotion in just the stillness of a lot of these shots. I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:04:39

I'm trying to do every project a different way and I'm thinking, like you know, even now, the new book will be bigger and there will be much more ideas, much more dynamics, you know, and I'm thinking about the whole thing like a whole book, you know. So there will be like very dynamic images. There'll be very calm images, you know, kind of like classic show, something experimental, and all together will be me, you know, but you're thinking as a book. You start to think like differently. You know, not just one project, but about the whole thing. It's a little bit different. And then you're trying to do as many original images as you can, you know. So it's a different person. And you know, when I finished this book, actually I was like, oh, it's like the end, what I will be doing now, because you feel like, oh, my God, this is like 13 years. And then, wow, and then what to do? You know, like I did, I was like oh, maybe I can do another one.

Speaker 1: 1:05:36

Yeah, and then I found myself that I feel like this is like the main thing for me. You know, for my life I just set my life on the books. You know, like the create books, and then I will finish this one. I have already done about another one, you know so. And then you have kind of like, kind of like a target, you know to where to go, you know so. I love the way how I can create the books. You know, I'm so excited to make another one, you know so.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

I'm excited as well. How can we get our hands on this book?

Speaker 1: 1:06:08

You can order it on my website, lukasdwodaknet. And of course, in my country, for example, they are in the bookstores, but I would like to go with that around Europe more in some bookstores around Europe, but I didn't have the time still to make it so. But website is the best way. How much is it? It's like a 70 euro for this version. There's also like a limited edition, but they are already going. I think I have like only five last pieces here.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

What's different?

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

It's with the certificate and the sign it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:06:39

Yeah, but the new one. I will make a big difference between them. There will be limited edition which will be very big, like a really really big one.

Speaker 2: 1:06:48

So that's what brings you to Bali, the, you know, basically shooting for the new book. Yes, exactly, so, the difference with this book is you have your, your shooting specifically for the book, whereas this one was kind of retrospective, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:07:03

And I'm much more productive in the terms of fine art now. So really I do a lot of projects like. It's kind of like process. It's like when you start running, you start, you run and you want to run more and more and more. You know. So it's like that I'm shooting photography and I'm doing more and more and I'm just surprising myself that I can do all that, even like it's three years from from this book and I I feel like I'm doing even more.

Speaker 1: 1:07:30

You know, like I'm just moving boundaries more forward. You know I'm maybe because I'm divorced, maybe I've. You know I'm kind of free time now. With the freedom I can create more. You know so I see my images. I feel in the three years that there's a big step forward. You know so wonderful.

Speaker 2: 1:07:51

So now you talk about 50, 50 between you know, personal projects, artwork and commercial. Is that reflective in kind of your income as well, or is it more? You know, because we always think what commercial brings in your money and then in your spare time you kind of use that money to do your personal stuff. Is that the same?

Speaker 1: 1:08:11

It's actually when I produced this book. That was a big decision. I can have a sponsor, you know somebody who will take care of the whole book and pay them, pay for it and I don't need to make an investment and they will be.

Speaker 1: 1:08:27

You know, they will get some share of it and I made this kind of risk as, like, I will release it by myself, and I was thinking like it's a baby, crazy idea, but in the end I, after three months, the book was paid, you know. So you create income from the book, you know. Then also I sell the prints, you know, which is also nice income. It's not like a crazy big income, but it's income that can pay some of your projects, you know. So actually my art start to make some income, you know. And commercial stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:09:04

It was very interesting how this happened because in one day I decided I will clean all my Instagram from my commercial stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:09:12

Now I'll keep it, just the news and my black and my images, and I was thinking I'm doing coming at them, you know, because if I will do this, people will not see my commercial stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:09:19

They will never give me a job, yep, but Because I create the consistency on my, on my Instagram, and my Instagram was growing very fast, people start to give me more jobs, you know, because they see that my work was powerful and they were dreaming about my images and they were imagining. Of course I can do it in colors, I can do it in them, or they can use my black and white for commercial stuff. You know, and actually I have Many, many more clients and new ones, and I'm the world which wants exactly my style. You know, because I gave them consistency in my style, that they start to pay for it. You know. So actually I found out that the effect was opposite. You know that I mean it's starting to bring me more and more clients. You know, which is interesting, because I was expecting the devil maybe lose all the clients, but it was, if you still have.

Speaker 2: 1:10:09

I mean, that's really the purpose of a website, right, yeah, but I don't have so much commercially.

Speaker 1: 1:10:14

I do a lot of commercial things which are very commercial, like you know, like Shoes and things like that. I'm not showing anybody, it's not even on my side, you know. Yeah, but I have on my side kind of like selection of my fashion projects which I like you know, and there's only a few images, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:10:31

So people actually cannot see my work. You know, if you go walk to the Prague, there are billboards of my work. Some family have peace, my link with some product. Nobody knows that it's my work, you know, and I Found out that you don't need to show them, because if you have strong portfolio, like something that people don't have and, for example, in my country I have the most followers on my, on my Instagram from the photographers, I think there's a one more we shooting some kind of nature but people see it, you know. They consider it you as one of the best, you know, so they should see your work and if they ask you about personally, we will send them, you know. So in the past they also cannot see your work. You know you need to send them book, you know, so it's the same.

Speaker 2: 1:11:14

I also think you can become typecast or you can become pigeonholed. If you show your previous commercial work, then other clients might look that go, oh, we don't want someone who does that kind of thing. Yeah you leave more opportunity. Exactly just talk to me a little bit about the brands that you work with and specifically your Fuji film extra top for right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:32

Yeah, what does?

Speaker 2: 1:11:33

that actually mean and what does that entail, and what do you have to do for it? How do you get it? Tell us all about it.

Speaker 1: 1:11:38

Yeah, yeah, it's a I. You know, for my long time in my life I was shooting off, I think, all the brands I had the Canon icon, olympus, sony, you know, pentax, huzlblad, you know. I try all the cameras, you know, and I think I spent this book was mostly shot on Pentax 645Z, you know, Because I, when I when I take a medium format to my hands, since the time of Pentax I was shooting on the medium format, you know, because of the format itself, like 6 on 6.4.5, and I felt like you know it's, it's much better than like this kind of 2-3, you know. And and then when the Fuji came, the first Fuji, I was not so interested because I the first cameras were like kind of like okay but kind of like complicated for me. But Fuji really make a lot of efforts to make the camera really good.

Speaker 1: 1:12:39

And before that I was Working with Huzlblad for I think one one-half year and Huzlblad was very cold camera, I know, was kind of like I have this X1D Mark II and I have H6D and they were kind of like boring. I was so bored to shoot with that, you know. And Then when I tried the, the first, the 100s from Fujifilm, was like wow, it's so light, it's so Enjoy. You know, I enjoyed the shooting the first GFX 100.

Speaker 1: 1:13:10

It was 100s 100s.

Speaker 2: 1:13:12

Yeah, it was actually second.

Speaker 1: 1:13:14

Okay, yeah, because the other one was too big for me.

Speaker 1: 1:13:17

Yeah, it was big and and this one was kind of like easy to use and I feel like so Comfort with that and I was very, very and I like one thing that I can see a black and white word directly in the camera. And so I started with this camera and I was, so think like so obsessed with this camera, I know, and Because I was a buster of Huzlblad and I didn't want to shoot with Huzlblad anymore. So I simply asked, would you film if I can be ambassador and I should be important like, yes, lucas, yes, we definitely would like to have you on board, you know. So I asked for it actually and it happened, you know. So I became not locally ambassador but also like a worldwide ambassador. And the thing is very nice about that that, for example, fujifilm is Also helping me with the book. You know, they help me with the. Sometimes, for example, here they also give me some money to be here that I can create my projects, you know. So it's kind of nice.

Speaker 1: 1:14:17

You can ask the Fujifilm for some Little money to help you with some project you know. So this is very nice. They really nicely take care of the photographers, you know. And just writing all my list contact Fujifilm Now I'm a Huzlblad guy, I've got an H60 and an X2D and I've had this love with Huzlblad for a while.

Speaker 2: 1:14:39

So I appreciate. Obviously it's not for everyone, but I mean there's. They're all you know. Medium format is the thing that binds all these together and there is no comparison in my opinion. So, yeah, that's, that's interesting. Tell us, tell us about the future, for I know you're working on your book now and do you often do workshops, or is that a new thing? That's this that's coming in worship.

Speaker 1: 1:15:01

I'm doing it well, fierce, maybe okay, and I'm doing only one worship per year in my country. Then I do now like one in Poland, you know, sometimes another country, but I'm trying to keep it exclusive only one day because of course is also I need to prepare for it and I don't have time to do like worship, like every day.

Speaker 2: 1:15:19

So Well, one day, one day a year, how many people?

Speaker 1: 1:15:24

most of the time I have like about 16 people there 60, 16, 16, 16. I cannot manage more.

Speaker 2: 1:15:30

How do you, what do you teach in that day? I mean, you can any kind of squeeze a tiny little bit of knowledge. I teach a lot of theory, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:15:38

I'm trying to explain people that photograph is mainly here. You know, like it's a process in your brain, so I'm I'm telling them my story, that there were some kind of like up and downs in my story. So I'm telling the story, then I tell them what is needed for photography from my perspective. You know the collaboration teams where you are living, actually, how you are creative, the creative processes you know, and all these things. Mostly is a lot of Talkings. You know what the talk is and then we do a little bit of shooting. But actually I'm like Telling people like it's better to listen to me. I listen to knowledge, then to shoot, because shooting you can learn by, by the way, you know, of course we will do some shooting. I'm explained something about the line, about that, about the posing, but it's not not not necessary, because you will learn this, but the Knowledge itself is the main thing there, you know. So I'm trying to talk a lot, you know. So they had to listen to me for six hours. So I'm talking and I think that's a different worship than the. Just, okay, we should hear stage one, stage two, no, no, no, it's. I think it's worthless.

Speaker 1: 1:16:45

You know, the main thing is really to listen to me and to to kind of like ups, observe the experience and Get some points like that, when what you can do and people are always motivated from my workshop and so I kind of like charging them to do something more, you know, because they are lazy or they were missing something in their life, or you know, and I'm also, I'm criticizing their work.

Speaker 1: 1:17:11

You know, I'm not the guy like I was in Poland and I start to say, oh, this is really bad, it's a really bad that they're like the, the, the lady for the worship, like Lucas. You cannot tell them. You have to sometimes, you know, like, encourage them, like, but really I have to tell them like it's shit, you know, because they need to start really doing it properly, not like if the people are telling you like for ten years that you're doing it well and your images are looking very bad, you know it's better to tell them like no, it's really bad, you know. So really think about it more. You know. So to understand the reality, you know, and I think it has a more value than just like it's nice, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:17:45

Everybody can tell it. You know kind of with you, give us one bit of one favorite tip or one favorite piece of advice that maybe you don't cover in your workshop, maybe you do cover any workshop, but kind of, let's get a Lucas exclusive in terms of.

Speaker 1: 1:17:58

I think that If I will see my past, what I was doing the the first thing is like to shoot really a lot, work hard. You know like it will not, you will not became good if you're shooting months or two months. You know you have to shoot every day, if it's possible every day. You know, and like a Like train your eyes. You know, I train it all the time. Like shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and it will come up in the Time, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:18:26

The other thing is like to read the books, go the knowledge, because more clever you are, more experienced we have everything. Your work will be better, you know, because you can read the story about traveling. But it will actually influence your way of thinking. You will travel, you will start travel and then, when you start travel, you will start shooting in the locations, like not not be stuck in your city. You know also, really, get the experience everywhere and be, I think, like be in the society of creatives. You know, like be inside of them. You know like don't, don't go to the pop and listen to some guys about parties. You need to be in the society of creatives. You know that they will be inspiring you. You know they have their own ways, even if it's painter or singer, they will. They, they, they needed to find some solutions. So you need to also listen to them because they, you know, they can give you some nice experience, you know Also, you know. So listen to people, be opened and yeah, I think like that.

Speaker 2: 1:19:24

What I get from that is a combination of theory and practical. The only way to gain wisdom which is everything especially in in art, you bring so much complexity into what you're trying to do and what you're trying to say by Having wisdom. That's one thing is reading and learning theory and kind of getting a kind of binary Knowledge into your brain. And then it's another thing, kind of a putting that into practice and just going to experiment and trying.

Speaker 1: 1:19:53

But also learning from other people, right yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:19:54

that's why I love this format as well. Just, talking to other artists.

Speaker 1: 1:19:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:19:58

Well, we are at the end of our wonderful conversation. Thanks so much, dronius. I'm gonna kind of do a little conversation card tradition, so I will ask you to pick one of these at random and then just hand it to me face down and I'll ask you the question. All right, cool, thanks, okay, what is one mistake that you have made that you have been scored, scored? Let me read you this Okay, what is one mistake that you have made that you've been scared to address or reconcile?

Speaker 1: 1:20:35

I don't understand the last word. I could that reconcile means.

Speaker 2: 1:20:39

Fixed.

Speaker 1: 1:20:42

So something like that. So if I made some mistake that I would like to fix in my life but you haven't fixed, Okay, I don't think that. It will be something rated photography, but maybe I can answer in different way. Maybe it will be.

Speaker 1: 1:20:55

Doesn't have to be photography, can be anything, but anyway I will tell about this story because I was in Milano that time when I was young and I had this opportunity to To work more, became maybe more fashion photographer and after three years, first, I decided to to leave Milano and go back to Prague because I was Kind of like the magazines and clients from Prague they want to work with me. And I was young and I was thinking, like I can be in Prague, I can enjoy my life still and I don't need to be in Milano and it will be actually great to go. And I said to my agent that I would like to go back to Prague. It's like no, no, no, no, no, you're on the way to the shoot Italian walk, so don't go back to Prague because it's you will just lose it, you know, and I was like young and I was, I didn't listen to these people and I was like, no, no, I want to be in Prague, enjoy my friends, or so I've, I've ocean for the magazines there. It was the biggest mistake in my life, because if I will stay there in Milano, I can. It will make me maybe Into the bigger magazines in Italy, maybe not, I'm not sure yet.

Speaker 1: 1:22:03

But I, from the, from the perspective Of time, I considered as a mistake, that I left the biggest opportunity in my life to maybe shoot for Italian walk. Maybe you know and I cannot change it anymore, but Also it's, it's the way of life. So maybe because of that, maybe I got a little different experience. You know, because I fall down on the ground after years that I was like I didn't develop enough, you know, and I felt like I need to go again up, you know, so I stand up and I went again. You know so it was like this in my life and then it was like this in my life and then it's also experience, you know so. And that question, if it's not related to photography, I don't think I made some Like a mistake that I want to undo or Something like a big, because everything, but I think, like Everything, what you do, even if you do mistakes, it's experience.

Speaker 2: 1:23:01

You need to fall down first to recognize, you know that, recognize what is good in your life, you know so I think, as long as you Understand that mistake and learn from it, I mean, a lot of people make mistakes and just kind of ignore it. You know make the same mistakes over and, over and over.

Speaker 1: 1:23:16

It's, it's, yeah, it's actually. The mistakes are good for you. You know like you need to make the mistakes to understand what you're doing. If you're not doing mistakes, or you would think that you're not doing mistakes, then you are lost, you know. You need to always Understand that you're doing mistakes and a lot of mistakes. Everybody's a mistake, like there is nobody in the whole planet that they didn't do any mistake. Everybody's doing mistakes.

Speaker 1: 1:23:39

You are young, you're naive, you are doing this and then, and your life is just like punching you and then, in after years, you just know that, oh yeah, I was stupid, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:23:49

I've only made one mistake, and that was traumatic, but I'm joking. Uh, final question before we let you go to your next photo shoot Um, this is from one of our previous guests, luca Apafani, and I'm gonna get you to write a question for the next guest, not knowing who they are, and he asked if you weren't doing what you're doing today, what do you think he would be doing instead?

Speaker 1: 1:24:09

Hmm, it's a nice question. Actually, I don't know, because when I was In the high school, I was thinking that I would be studied for philosophy, you know. But I also know that I'm artist, so so that I need to do something. Maybe I would be musician, I would, I would produce an attorney music, because I was doing it before photography, and if he'll, there will be no photography. Maybe I will be music producer.

Speaker 2: 1:24:34

Hmm, probably yeah. What do you play?

Speaker 1: 1:24:37

I was doing like a, I was producing music like on In the, in the software, you know, on the computers. You know, probably I will be today sitting in the studio. I will have a lot of synthesizers and I'll be creating an attorney music, probably, I don't know, you know so maybe I think this is the highest probability that I'll be doing. This will be the Producing attorney music. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:56

Well, I hope you don't do that, because I want you to keep doing what you're doing. It's fantastic to me. Thank you so much for for coming on the show.

Speaker 1: 1:25:03

Thank you very much also.

Speaker 2: 1:25:04

And good luck with the next book.

Speaker 1: 1:25:06

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.