Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this Episode of The MOOD Podcast, I talk to Simone Ferreti about the power and place of social media in photography, as well as unlocking the mysteries of the 'ROOSE formula' for idea generation.
Simone, a seasoned content creator, peels back the layers of producing compelling digital content while staying grounded in the moment. As our conversation meanders through the complexities of fostering genuine audience commitment, Simone's transition from capturing every experience through a lens to living fully in ‘the now’ serves as refreshing reminder and powerful testament to the art of being present in the maze of digitisation this industry thrusts upon photographers and content creators.
We also discuss his transition from videography to photography, emphasizing the strategic use of social media to connect with his audience authentically. But in his world of rapid media consumption, clickbait and pressure of social media metrics, does he maintain artistic integrity and if so how?
Find Simone and his work across his socials:
Instagram: @sferro21
TikTok: @sferro21
YouTube: @sferro21
Website: www.simoneferretti.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this Episode of The MOOD Podcast, I talk to Simone Ferreti about the power and place of social media in photography, as well as unlocking the mysteries of the 'ROOSE formula' for idea generation.
Simone, a seasoned content creator, peels back the layers of producing compelling digital content while staying grounded in the moment. As our conversation meanders through the complexities of fostering genuine audience commitment, Simone's transition from capturing every experience through a lens to living fully in ‘the now’ serves as refreshing reminder and powerful testament to the art of being present in the maze of digitisation this industry thrusts upon photographers and content creators.
We also discuss his transition from videography to photography, emphasizing the strategic use of social media to connect with his audience authentically. But in his world of rapid media consumption, clickbait and pressure of social media metrics, does he maintain artistic integrity and if so how?
Find Simone and his work across his socials:
Instagram: @sferro21
TikTok: @sferro21
YouTube: @sferro21
Website: www.simoneferretti.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
The easiest way to grow, and people don't understand this until they try it. Oh my god, did photography come first? Content creation come first? The Rose formula is a formula that I use to generate ideas, and that's, I think, one of the biggest problems that creators have right now. They just don't know what to create.
Speaker 2:If you're teaching someone how to come up with ideas, doesn't that negate the definition of creativity in itself? Why do you think people do follow?
Speaker 1:I'd love to know when I get free things. I barely watch them. When you charge them? People have much more commitment.
Speaker 2:Where did the jobs start coming from?
Speaker 1:Is it all social media? I do think there's still. There's possible to make money out of content creation. You can do a lot of stuff, Especially with AI. I'm into AI, meaning I really love it. Just give us an overview of Simone and his photography. What I'm trying to teach is Simone Ferretti.
Speaker 2:Yes, welcome to the move. Welcome to the move.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, Simone why laugh at me?
Speaker 2:My talent accent. Thank you for your time. I know your time is hugely valuable, as everyone's is, but I wanted to kind of start with that concept of time. What does time really mean to you?
Speaker 1:Oh, this is already a very deep question, I would say just being able to achieve your goals and to live a life that you want to remember and having no regrets when you're 80 years old and you're like shit. I should have done that. Give me an example, I think. Now I see that. So, let's say, I come from a very small village and my parents didn't travel that much and I can see in their eyes that they would have loved to travel more, but probably they were too scared or maybe it was just a different generation. I see my grandmother now doing all these crazy trips on my photos and I send her a photo and then she's like I just cannot believe that this is possible right now, because obviously in a different generation, it was not that easy to travel as it is right now. So I guess now I want to try to use my time wisely to then do all the experiences that I want to do and have you, I think I've been doing my best.
Speaker 1:Yes, and maybe a couple of years ago I was really, really focused on just like create as much content as possible whenever I was traveling, whereas right now I'm trying to enjoy the moment as well. So sometimes I literally leave my camera at home and I just want to enjoy that sunset. I want to enjoy that moment with my girlfriend or with my friends playing spypill on the beach, and I just don't want to think about the content stuff. I just want to live that moment because I love reviewing photos and videos, but sometimes I'm like I don't even remember how I felt in that moment because I was so focused in trying to get that photo.
Speaker 2:Very mature way of thinking. I guess Very difficult for photographers and artists to do that, especially because you see something amazing, you want to. I need to get a photo. I want to get a photo of this because that's what I enjoy. But it's easy to forget where you are, what you're doing, who you're with in that moment and just experiencing. Not thinking, not doing anything, just experiencing.
Speaker 1:I think one of the key things that I'm trying to do right now is just like being grateful. I stopped for a second. Now we have got like a beautiful villa here in Bali and for me it's insane that we're in Bali for a month, living here, working here. I just stopped, I look at the pool, I look at the computer. I'm like this is incredible. I'm just so thankful for every single moment that I'm really enjoying my life so much and I'm super happy that I get to do this with friends and with girlfriend and just like in a healthy environment, let's say.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. It's great to have you here. Once again, thanks for coming on. When you say work and you're doing some work here what does work mean to you? What does that entail?
Speaker 1:So the majority of my income comes from brand partnerships on Instagram, tiktok and a little bit on YouTube. Therefore, brands pay me to just showcase their products and their accessories on my Instagram. So when I say, work is all about creating content that showcases products, accessories all related to cameras and photography on my Instagram in a creative way. I think one of my strengths is to come up with, like, original ideas. So I work a lot with Nanlite, which is a lighting brand. I've been their ambassador for over two years and a half and every month I just try to yeah, literally post two or three videos about Nanlite products in a creative way, so that people can get inspired to create more content and just go out and try themselves, because, at the end of the day, sometimes you don't need expensive equipment, you don't need expensive places or you don't need to be in Bali to get that scenery, but you can create something very cool in your house, just in a corner with a white wall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. The course I'm building at the moment is essentially that tagline you can create anything special with equipment less than 100 bucks. 200 bucks, You've got camera, bit of natural light, you get to go, you do it anywhere right Whatever style of photography you want to do.
Speaker 2:Did photography come first? Content creation come first? Are they kind of synonymous with each other or are they separate? Because I know knowing a little bit about you, certainly from Mike who introduced us photography was never wasn't really a passion of yours to begin with, but then you grew an interest in videography and then became photography and now content creation. What came first and how did?
Speaker 1:it all start. So in 2017, I moved from Italy to Hong Kong, and then I was working as a personal trainer in a gym, and then I was just Sorry which gym it's called True, is a niche one that now is, I think, shut down.
Speaker 1:During COVID Okay, it was in central in Hong Kong, okay. And then I was just doing creating videos with my iPhone 7 and a GoPro and then a drone, just when I was doing the hikes in Hong Kong, which were amazing, obviously, and I was just posting these videos on Facebook because I loved making videos but I hated shooting photos, which is funny. But I was posting these on Facebook and then, slowly, I started getting some requests from friends like, hey, I saw your videos and can you do one for my restaurant, one for my gym? I'm like, yeah, sure, and obviously I started doing it for free. But then I realized, okay, I can make money out of it and I just enjoyed the process so much and every time I was going out to shoot a video, I was just getting better and better and better. I was watching a lot of YouTube videos and I was just, I loved the whole process of planning, shooting, then going home and editing.
Speaker 1:It became basically a part-time job. So I started earning quite a few, a nice like side income, and then, in 2019, when I left to Hong Kong, when I left Hong Kong to go to London. I kind of put aside the camera because I started university there. And then after a few months COVID happened and I'm like I saw this TikTok thing booming and I'm like, okay, what if I start creating a lot of videos about small tips and tricks on videography and photography just at home and see how it goes for a couple of months. So I started posting three videos a day on TikTok no jokes for four months and then kind of exploded. So I never stopped. But the journey is videography then lockdown. So I started posting small videos and started getting into photography a bit as well, because photography is just easier to share on social media than videos. And then that's it and then fast forward. Today I'm just doing it for as a full-time job.
Speaker 2:Why is photography easier than videos to share? Do you mean in the production process? I mean it's quicker yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's just when you need to do tutorials on videos. It's just more complicated than photos sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then there's a lot of improvements to think about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's way more rules that you need to follow, even the settings of the camera, Whereas in photography at least personally I find it like 10 times easier. So I started enjoying photography way more because I started learning more, practicing more. I did a lot of self-portraits at the beginning and then, yeah, basically never stopped and now I kind of prefer photography.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Why? What was the intent behind your intense growth with social media, especially TikTok, at that time? If you're posting three a day, why were you so keen on growing on TikTok? Was it just a case of I don't want to do PT anymore and I want to do this full-time, so this is now a mechanism to do that? Or was it, you know, one more validation for what I'm doing? Or I want to practice? You know what was the intent behind that initial push.
Speaker 1:I think the main reason was that because I was following on Instagram an Italian photographer. This Italian photographer started TikTok and then, in a matter of three weeks, he went from zero to 70,000 followers and I'm like, if he can do it, then probably I can do it as well. So I didn't really have a second meaning that I want to make money out of it. I didn't want to be an influencer. I just did it because I'm like, okay, this can lead to something, and it was like a TikTok was early, the early days in 2020.
Speaker 1:So I just decided you know what I'm going to do it? Because I'm going to learn by doing these videos and I'm going to try to apply more business mind to the content creation part, which is I'm going to try to find and identify content that can resonate with an audience, that can get a lot of likes and views and whatever, and try to grow my accounts and see where it goes. And I'm honestly super happy. I did that because after a few months, joby reached out and that was the very first big, big branch that noticed my work, and then it's just skyrocketed after that.
Speaker 2:So how did you grow? I mean, that's the kind of the golden question that people want to know, right? Maybe photographers, but just a lot of people want to grow on social media. We're going to talk about social media a little bit later, but, in your opinion, I don't think we can ever know the true reason why people grow, because the algorithms are all just, you know, smoke and mirrors. Why do you think that you grew so fast, so quick? I think?
Speaker 1:the easiest way to grow is identify problems of your younger self and just giving solution to these problems, meaning that when I started videography I didn't know about X, y and Z. So when I started creating content for TikTok, I gave solution to those problems X, y and Z and therefore I'm like if I had this problem when I started my journey, then probably more people have this problem right now and therefore, if I give them something that they want to know the answer to, then they'll be like okay, I like this guy, I'm going to follow him, I'm going to like him, I want to see more videos. So I just started teaching what I wanted to know three years earlier, which is a yeah, a good way of thinking. Instead of having to go all the way around, you just think about your younger self, what you didn't know, what you did you learn in the last three years, and try to teach all those things.
Speaker 2:Yes, that old adage write what you know about. And, okay, we're not writing. Well, we are writing, but we're kind of creating something that we know that we don't know right or we didn't know. So it was just yeah, write about what you experienced, and I think that's definitely why you've done so. Well, fast forward to today and we talk about the courses that you run, the Roos formula. Now you're teaching how to go viral. Is that the best way to explain it?
Speaker 1:This is more like a clickbait title, but what I'm trying to teach is the Roos formula is a formula that I use to generate ideas, so it's basically a way on how I can never run out of ideas, because if I show you right now my Apple notes folder with idea generation for social media is just endless ideas that I can generate at any time, and that's, I think, one of the biggest problems that creators have right now they just don't know what to create, and therefore I came up with this like structured way to find ideas, and I'm trying to teach people how to find ideas, how to execute those ideas and how to post them and optimize for social media so that they can try themselves, they can have a guide on how to make it happen.
Speaker 1:Because content creation changed my life and my mission right now is try to help as many people as possible change their lives through content creation. With content creation and is that photography specific? I would say content creation meaning that if you're a different niche than photography, you can apply the same concept to any niche. Let's say Okay.
Speaker 2:So many questions. One is tell us the formula. So give us an insight. Without people, obviously, they can go to your website. I think it's free.
Speaker 1:Is it free? Yes, yes, it's a free masterclass. So in case you want to check it out, you can download for free.
Speaker 2:We're going to link that in the podcast description Without us going through the whole course. Now just give us like a couple of tip bits that we can kind of take away with us.
Speaker 1:Okay, in a nutshell, to find ideas, you just need to be aware while living that's what I call it. It's like, basically, whenever you go around, whenever you're scrolling on social media, that you're on the toilet just try to be aware what you're looking at, why this video got your attention, why did you stop scrolling, what was the hook, what was the first frame, what is the caption? Why did you decide to click on that link? And then you try to find as many ideas as possible while you're living. Even when I look at the studio, for example, I can see that the walls there was a beautiful texture right here and I'm like is there a way on how I can link my skills using this textured background? Or maybe there is a light in the background. It looks amazing. I'm like, oh, maybe I can put the phone there to have a different angle. It's just like try to find as many ideas as possible while living. Then write down everything, everything, everything you find that you think can be an inspiration. Write down everything and then afterwards you're going to try to organize these ideas and find those that can have the best appeal for your audience, meaning that you look back at all the ideas that you wrote down and I'm like, oh, this one I think could be really cool because I can link this, I can link that and then altogether it's going to come out for a great video. I give you a practical example.
Speaker 1:In December, I posted a video where I had a Batman soundtrack, a TV in the background and then a non-light light doing some fireworks effect and then a spray that was just like basically to make my hair wet.
Speaker 1:So I combined four different elements that I saw on social media, because I saw before someone that was using this spray to create like a fake rain. I saw someone putting an image on the TV just to simulate a different background, and I had this new non-light light that was having this effect that now almost all the professional lights have. So I'm like how I can combine all these elements together to create a video that can resonate with my audience? I created a video that went viral just using an iPhone. So all these elements to combine from different aspects of my life made a cool video, and that's how I see the idea generation formula. She's like try to be aware, capture as much as possible, be attentive of whatever happens. However, you scroll on social media, just write down everything. Then you go back, you look at all the ideas and you try to combine different elements of things that you see to then come up with that banger idea.
Speaker 2:Interesting, so you must spend a lot of time on your phone.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I do, I do yeah.
Speaker 2:How do you think that affects you as a person, mental health and society in general?
Speaker 1:So, because posting on Instagram is my full-time job, let's put it that way I don't really scroll that much on Instagram, which is a bit sounds weird, but that's what I really tried to do, because I don't I waste so much time on Instagram trying to find these ideas and like to try to post and like all the stuff that I. Whenever I don't have to work because I maybe already posted, I'm happy to do something else. So, because I'm aware that this can be very dangerous just scrolling endlessly then I try to stop, take a step backward and just like enjoy life, let's say, how do you think your videos affect other people?
Speaker 2:You know there's obviously you're going to inspire a lot of people, on one hand, and you're going to educate, which is, you know it's really fantastic, you know you can't fault it. On the other side is, if you're teaching videos to go people to make viral videos, you know to make successful videos that last 60 seconds or less, to promote short form content, to promote clickbait, to promote attention grabbing stuff which, in many people's opinions, can only have a derogatory effect on people generally and society. Do you, do you make others aware of that? And what do you think your videos have an effect in terms of on other people, just generally that environment?
Speaker 1:That's. That's a good question. My goal is just try to inspire as many people as possible to take their phone and go create content because, as I said, content creation changed my life and I believe it can do the same for so many other people. So with my videos, I just try to educate and teach other people easy ways on how they can go out and create content. So that's that's. That's the way I think about it. I don't know, is a? Is a is a difficult question. What do you think like? What's your goal with your courses, for example, with your course that is coming up?
Speaker 2:No, I mean that's that is a form of education that goes a little bit deeper into how to create, create specific types of images, right, specific pieces of art. Essentially, I don't like short form content. I've never been comfortable with it. I do it as well, like I. I I don't necessarily promote it. One in every four of my Instagram posts are 60 second educational reels, tips and tricks. I hate it, like I don't. I don't, I feel dirty doing them. I I'd never open TikTok. I think I'm on there, I have an assistant who posts because I just I can't deal with it.
Speaker 2:I think TikTok is the worst of the lot because it just fuels this, this clickbait society, this, this real kind of environment where people just are onto the next thing, onto the next thing, onto the next thing. There's no real depth to anything, there's no real art to anything. Yeah, it markets itself as this platform where you know people can be successful in their followings. It just this. It's a, it's a dichotomy that I can't really reconcile and understand. These things are tools, and that's why I ask about your intent behind doing these. The byproduct of your intent to inspire and educate, and mine as well, is that we're part of this machine which personally I don't believe in, like I don't.
Speaker 2:I see the benefits of social media for many things, but for me it's outweighed massively by the detrimental effects of social media. So, as photographers, we've been drawn in, we've been sucked in, magnetized into this huge behemoth that's meta Instagram, tiktok, youtube's a little bit different and I love your YouTube channel, by the way, and I'm I love YouTube because it's you can do long form stuff, you can really get into more of a dialogue, you can get more into the, the real meaning and expression behind whatever you're doing right, details and nuances. You just can't do that with TikTok, you can't do that with Instagram. Really, if you're just doing images on Instagram, good luck. Like, you've got to do reels, right, and therefore you're now in a box where you've got to appeal to people scrolling all the time, and you know the World Health Organization talks about how that type of behavior, all the time social media is a massive contributing effect with depression, mental illness, anxiety and a host of other things, right.
Speaker 2:So you know, as photographers and artists, I think we are a little bit different, because art usually comes first, right, and then it's the education inspiration that surrounds that. Like, how can we, how can we get people to to experience what I experienced, to get the joy that I experienced, and create art and create other inspiring things for other people? Right, but we're still in that, we're still in the group, we're still in the content creator group and that label is is I don't know, it's just a bit icky, because for me, I associate that with not many good things. What it does is just we're. We're just creating more and more and more, just dumbing down of society. In my opinion.
Speaker 1:But then when you say that you hate, like short form, if you, obviously I agree and a lot of things you said, I think it's just, in general, the majority of the content is is detrimental, which is like the entertaining entertainment part. Entertaining content, that's what I don't like, but the educational side of things I find it amazing and I'm trying personally to contribute to that educational side of things. So, yes, I agree with you with the fact that it is extremely detrimental when you just endlessly scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling just. But then there is also that beautiful part where you can learn tips and tricks very quick, Like I'm personally, I'm trying to think just at the contribution that I'm giving to the platform with, like teaching people how to do cool stuff. But what do you think about your side of things personally, like your type of content, that there's these 60 seconds real tips and tricks that you hate. Why do you hate them if you can teach something to the viewers, let's say I don't think I can get much across in 60 seconds, it's.
Speaker 2:You know, if I do it well, I can maybe give one takeaway, but in the context of things, I probably don't do a good enough job. But B, I don't think it really the net result of being part of that system and doing that short form content doesn't mean much to me. Right, it might help people, but in my opinion, all it's doing I'm saying this contradictory, because I still do it, right, so I do it selfishly, because, you know, I want my Instagram to be at a status that I'm happy with. But, more importantly, I want to give back. So, a lot of my 60 seconds and this is going to be my next question to you but a lot of those 60 second reels are kind of lead ins to more long form content.
Speaker 2:I want to push people to my YouTube channel. I want to push people to my ebook and my free tutorials. I want to push people to my course. Eventually, right, I want to push people to this podcast because this format for me, in my experience in my 41 years of living, is million times more valuable than a 60 second reel. So I would, I want to lead people to an hour's conversation with an amazing artist, rather than his platform, and we'll go and watch the 60 second reels. That's my belief in what I think is more beneficial to me, to you, to beginners, to society, right. This is this art of conversation, but longer form content, and you know, I don't really know where we go from here.
Speaker 2:But you know my question, really, my next question for you is in your short form content, do you have that awareness that you're kind of you're exacerbating one side of the coin, that kind of the devil on your shoulder, and do you teach that? Do you make other people aware? Like, okay, like, just remember, this is one tip or two, three tips and tricks. If you want to know more, you know, fucking knuckle down. You don't learn anything in 60 seconds. You don't really learn anything in 60 seconds. A, you got to go and practice a lot. I know that's your mantra. You know 80% practice, 20% learning. Go and fucking practice. Secondly, go and learn, go and learn. You can't learn. In my opinion, you can't learn that much in 60 seconds. Yeah, you can, like, take stuff away little tips and tricks and little settings and little creative ideas, Fantastic. I'm not. I'm not kind of pushing that aside, but do you think about that much, Do you? Do you make others aware of that?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I directly make others aware of that, obviously, because it's just 20 seconds or 30 seconds real then I always try to push people towards longer tutorials where I know that they can get a lot of value from it, and the Rose Masterclass is actually one of those things that I'm really, really proud of, because I think it really comes down to the idea generation.
Speaker 1:That's like this is. I just think it's the base of everything you know is the key to unlock the power of actually creating amazing videos. So for me now I'm trying to give small tips and like showing you that you can find really cool ideas very quickly just in your house with not without much equipment, and then, if you want to learn more on how to create these ideas, then you watch a longer tutorial where I explain you more things, which is actually free, and then, if you want, you can also purchase a course on how to make it happen, to executing those, those rails, just with your phone. So I don't think I make aware others about this, but I'm trying my best to kind of like give as much value as possible for as little money as possible, because at the end of the day, you can literally watch I think eight out of nine courses of mine completely for free all of them. So I'm really trying my best.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I struggle with the free thing as well, because I give stuff away for free. I'm like fuck I. You know I put a lot of work into that, but you know everyone wants something for free. Now you know there is this expectation that any type of video, why do I have to pay for this video? It's like even me, when I go on to like Apple TV, if I can't find a film on Netflix or something, go to Apple TV and say what they want to charge me $3 to rent a film. Fuck off, you know. So it's. We are in that society now. But there is a point where I'm really interested to hear that there's eight or nine courses that free. When. When do you start? A, why are they free? And B, when do you? When would you or do you start charging for stuff?
Speaker 1:So now I have, let's say, two areas where you can watch my content like paid content. Let's say, one is on Skillshare. So there I have, I think, nine courses as of today, and on Skillshare you can sign up and you get 30 days for free. You can watch all the courses that you want on the platform. That's why I said you can literally watch all my courses for free and then you can just cancel the subscription. You won't be charged anything. So at the end of the day, yes, you can watch all my courses for free. After 30 days you can. You'll get charged by Skillshare, but you can cancel to watch everything before Then. The second way is I have a lead magnet which is the Rose Formula Masterclass, which I think is value packed, and then, if you want, you can buy the course on how to create videos with your phone, and that's charged, so you have to pay to get access to that. So this is just the overall monetization that I have in practice at the moment.
Speaker 1:So the biggest dilemma that I have is that I can see on my behavior as well that when I get free things, I barely watch them, which I hate, is to say it. I hate it because I know how it works. You put so much effort into free things and then when people get it for free, they don't watch it or they don't do whatever exercise they need to do, whereas when you charge them, people have much more commitment. For example, I downloaded an amazing resource on YouTube that was I don't even remember what it was, I didn't even open it because it was free, whereas I purchased the Ali Abdel's Part-Time YouTuber Academy. That was like two grand Freaking hell. I watched every single little bit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And it's just ridiculous, but that's how we're wired. So now I'm also extremely reluctant to give people free things, because they just don't watch it, they don't commit to it, and that's also the problem why people never start to creating content or never start to learn actually putting a practice, because maybe that resource is free and they just have different priorities because they didn't pay for it. They're just not going to watch it. And that's now I'm like you know what? I think we should charge for everything, even if it's a small amount. You just need to charge.
Speaker 2:So why do you give free content to over a million people? That's a good question.
Speaker 1:That's a good question. We're trying Now. I signed with an agency last November so with their help they have much more marketing background solid marketing background than me. So hopefully they're going to help me understand the psychology of the humans and try to just help more people in a practical way.
Speaker 2:So a lot of your content and we haven't really talked about photography that much, but a lot of your content.
Speaker 1:I hate that word, but I'm going to put it in my.
Speaker 2:We get what you mean by content. We get whatever everyone gets what I mean by content. So let's use content. A lot of your content is educational right, and I know talk to me a little bit about your background in education. You've done some coaching, obviously personal training. I think you were a swimming coach as well at some point. So teaching is obviously in your blood. Where did that come from, and how much of that skill set do you now kind of use for your social media and your teaching?
Speaker 1:courses. So when I was 18, my girlfriend at that time my ex-girlfriend was into swimming and she became a swimming instructor. And then I kind of followed the same path, because why not? And when I started teaching kids how to swim, I just found I was so happy because literally the parents, they were coming to me and they were like I'm so thankful because now my kid wants to do swimming because of you, and like he's super happy and whenever he finishes the hour he just smiles and he cannot wait to come back for another one. This is amazing that I was just super, super happy.
Speaker 1:And then I love doing that job, even though it was being absolutely terrible I think it was like seven euros an hour or something like that as a swimming instructor like with licensed swimming instructor. And then I had to move away from my village to go to Milan and then in Milan I did my PT license because I was into gymming, I was into working out and stuff like this. I just wanted to learn more and I wanted to get this license just to be more employable. And then when I moved to Hong Kong from Milan, I found a job in the gym as a personal trainer and even there I just loved, loved, loved teaching people and like seeing them being happy at the end of the workout, coming back for more. Then we hanged out a few times for lunch with my students and I was just like this makes me happy. I just want to keep doing this for my life, like for my whole life.
Speaker 1:And then, because COVID happened, I moved away, I moved to London. I decided to keep this teaching side of things but we kept it and it makes me very happy because people now are sending me their photos with my tutorials and it looks amazing. And then they were sending me the before and after, maybe with the editing, and it looks amazing thanks to my tutorials and just makes me super happy.
Speaker 2:How can we be better educators as photographers? I think that's a good question.
Speaker 1:Actually, I think just being passionate, just really really doing it because you love it and not because you want to make money out of it, is a big part. Because, again, when I was doing the TikTok thing at the beginning, I was posting so much and was taking me, I think, four or five hours a day to create three videos a day. And I didn't do it because of money, I just did it because I really enjoy making these tutorials and just like coming up with ideas, then executing the ideas and then posting it and then seeing people comment Wow, this is amazing when I try myself, and then they're sending me photos and stuff like this, I'm like I love this. So this passion I think it's the passion is at the base, because if you're not passionate about something, teaching it, it's not going to work.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. Before I let you continue with the podcast, just indulge me for a few minutes. I want to briefly talk to you about my new brand, yore. Founded with my business partner and photographic artist, finn Mattson, we are proud to bring you a new artisanal jewelry and specialty coffee brand, yep. What on earth do they have to do with anything? Well, they're both our passions and they've always been another artistic outlet for me, now for over a decade. For those that know me, coffee and jewelry have been my other obsession since I was young, and I am a qualified SCA coffee specialist. So when I met Finn, some of you might have listened to my podcast with him. When we barely knew each other, our love for art and jewelry had a home, and that home is Yore.
Speaker 2:Yore is about the art of intent for everything that we do. Our intention with the label was to add a touch of celestial elegance and artistic expression to our visual narratives. Every piece is a statement or reflection of your unique story and purpose. It's not just jewelry, it's a wearable piece of art that speaks volumes. Picture this Silver or gold adorned with an actual piece of lunar meteorite, making every piece as unique as the moments we usually capture through our lenses. From limited edition lunar jewelry pieces to finely crafted 925 sterling, silver and gold rings, pendants and chains there's something for all of you in each of our unique designs.
Speaker 2:We're also committed to the environment as much as possible. Our coffee in our barley showroom is direct trade, organically produced and locally farmed, minimizing impact on the environment as much as possible. Our packaging is all sustainable and our jewelry recycled other than the moonrock, of course Proudly eco-friendly. In both packaging and jewelry production. You can feel good about looking good. And to top it off, we offer worldwide shipping, ensuring that a piece of lunar beauty can grace your collection no matter where life takes you.
Speaker 2:If you ever find yourself in barley, please come and visit our house of yore. A cafe and community-driven art house is a haven for creatives just like you. And before we head back into the podcast, please just take a moment to explore yore's collection. As a special treat for you, my wonderful audience, yore is offering an exclusive discount. So head over to our website and use the code in the description for a 10% discount off your jewelry purchase. The link in details are all in the description. So thanks so much for listening and I'll let you get back to the podcast now. Do you think there's a difference between when it comes to social media and photography? Do you think there's a difference between being good and popular?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, big time. I do believe there are a lot of photographers and videographers. They are like 10, 20, 50 times better than me, but they have less followers and that doesn't mean that they're worse than me at all. I sometimes have this imposter syndrome where I feel like I have way more followers and popularity than I should have because I don't think I'm at level of some other guys. They're out there, they have like less followers than me, but they're like so much better. So it's really I don't care about the number itself, Like it's really useful, the useless number, the number of followers and the number of likes you get.
Speaker 2:Really, is it useless? I mean, can't be. You can reach more people if you've got something to say.
Speaker 1:Yes, but then you see some guys that they do some very I'm sorry, but I don't like what they do and have millions of followers. They do tutorials based on whatever worked and they saw working. They just copy and paste and because it works, because it's maybe something that appeals to the majority of the audience, then they grow very fast. They get a lot of likes, but I don't think they're better than me and I don't think they're better than those other guys. They do cinematic epic content that maybe takes six months or like one year to do one video. So I don't want to think that more followers mean more like that. You're better than me, Like I don't know, it's just no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, I mean there's so much to talk about in this area.
Speaker 1:What do you think? Do you think like a two million followers Instagramer is better than a 200K all the time? Like guarantee.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. I mean, I come from a different train of thought, I think, just because I'm old. You know how old are you? I'm 28. 28. So I'm 13 years older than you.
Speaker 2:I wasn't brought up with social media. You kind of work, yeah. So it was kind of like for me, I'm just this old fart who's just generally I don't like social media. I was off it forever until maybe five years ago. I was like, well, if I want to get my photos seen, I can either be a grump in the corner and never get seen, or I can start learning how this whole fucking thing works, right, with some careful kind of curation of how I want to be perceived. So for me, you know, followers is never been important. I can honestly 100% say that up to a point where it's like, well, I need some audience, right, I need some loyal audience that I can talk to and I can share my work with.
Speaker 2:There is this selfish element that photographers have where it's like, well, my work doesn't really mean anything unless I get that validation right. And that's pretty much the same with nearly all artists, apart from some artists who are just more introspective, right. So you know, I get that and I'm okay with that. But it's funny when you were introduced to me the other day by a mutual friend, he basically introduced you by telling me your social media stats and that's just the way he thinks. I don't know whether that is clearly not really the way you think, but it's a way a lot of present day photographers think. For me it's quite sad. It's like they define success with the level of following and social media engagement that they get. But I'm not dismissing that at all, like I enjoy it. You know there is a dopamine hit when you get some amazing comments and likes and something some real gets goes viral. I've never experienced that. But when you get you know this, oh yeah, I know that did really well in that place. But then you think, well, actually, is that down to me or is that down to the algorithm? Probably a bit both. So you know I don't have full control over it, but it's just. It's just interesting how, photographer, in the photography space and photography, filmmaking, if I see someone and this is why I'm trying to get more people on this show it's great to have huge follow, followings like yourself, but more people who are just incredible artists that don't get, just don't have the exposure Right. So it's.
Speaker 2:I appreciate everything, but for me, it always comes down to the intent behind what you're doing. Now, if you're teaching how to create videos on your iPhone, fantastic. Like you know, people don't want to use cameras all the time or can't afford it. Everyone has a phone right. Go and teach how to use how to make videos on the phone. People enjoy it, people love it, people create some amazing things. That's the intent behind what you do. As far as, as far as I can tell Some people's intent who've got like you're talking like over a million followers and stuff. Their intent is to teach people how to get to a million followers. You know, and I've seen these mentorship programs I've I've had insights into them and people on YouTube. Literally, their main goal is to how to create viral videos, how to how to blow up, basically in social media, and I just don't agree with that Like. I just don't agree with that intent and the purpose behind it. So for me, it depends on the intention.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is. I think there are two ways on how you can approach this social media thing. There is the amazing artist that doesn't want to post consistently, doesn't want to put effort in the caption, doesn't want to post stories, doesn't want to put a good caption and stuff like this Um IGBayo. So this artist maybe has amazing photos and amazing videos but doesn't grow that much on social media because it doesn't optimize for it, whereas there is the other guy that the level of the quality level is just so much lower but he posts three, two times a day, he has an amazing, whatever caption, all the time is like super engaging with stories and he has something to sell that people wants to buy. Let's say this person is going to have way more success on social media than the artist, but in my view this person is not better than the artist. You know what I mean. So that's why I don't associate a number of followers with the value of a person or the quality of the work. It's just different approach.
Speaker 2:But we must be aware that we live in that society that values followers over content.
Speaker 1:Yes, we live in that society and to me, to be honest, uh, that number that those numbers that I have on TikTok and Instagram really, really helped me on a daily basis. Yeah, like, people just look at me differently and it's just very sad to say, but that's, that's what it is. And now I'm, I'm obviously enjoying it because I get a lot of benefit from it. But is it fair? Not sure about that. Well, life isn't fair, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's, that's, that's exactly. Yeah, it's like, uh, I don't know. Take any kind of industry politics Do you really think the best politicians and best people get to the top? No, right, but, um, you know. That being said, I don't want to take anything away from like people don't realize it took me to actually do it and put time and energy into social media Like this is fucking exhausting. Yes, yes, I'm job. Just the research alone, right, building avatars, comp, competitor analysis, all the kind of stuff Like what actually works and sounds like.
Speaker 2:Now you've got to a point where you kind of do every day right, ideas that works, that doesn't work, blah, blah, blah. But whether you're a photographer, um, uh, we're trying to think of another industry, any other industry or any other niche in social media. Whatever you're doing to to increase your exposure, increase your platform, you've got to put in the work. You might get lucky with one video, but that doesn't mean your followers are going to be a loyal and grow with you and be sustainable over time. It just that just doesn't happen. You 99% of the people with big followings and big influence on social media are people who've put in the work and have skill right. You've still got to have skill. You still want to learn. Learn how to work with this thing, learn how to create good content. You still got to have good content. You've still got to have interesting, engaging, engaging content. So you know I'm not taking anything away from that, just I think the intent and the purpose behind a lot of this is sometimes very misguided.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree. No, but it is a full-time job, like I like. My job is basically to create content for Instagram and TikTok and just like a few courses, but I can guarantee that I work way more hours than a full-time uh employee, uh, but that being said, I really love it and I would do it anyway. So the fact that I can earn money out of it is just, it's just incredible. It's literally a dream for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, good for you. How do should I say? Why do you think people do follow you?
Speaker 1:I'd love to know Um. Have you asked them Uh? Maybe maybe not, not recently, though yeah, I should, I should, I think, just the value that I put out, uh, it's probably, it's probably something that people find useful. So, definitely the idea part of things. I always come back to that, but I do think I have like a creative mind and, uh, thanks to the unlimited ideas that I can find and then put together, I can just help as many people as possible in a simple way.
Speaker 2:Let's go like that yeah, I think for me, I follow you. I mean, I I just think, and you talked about being on your phone on the toilet. I'm always on my phone on the toilet.
Speaker 1:It's like. It's like a break from reality.
Speaker 2:Almost right. It's like I'm going to go into the world of social media for five, sometimes 20 minutes, um, and then it goes to 30 and 40 and then it's time to sleep.
Speaker 2:I'm not really a scroll or an Instagram, but I will stories. Yeah, I love seeing people's stories Like I want to get into people's lives, and that's where social media is so good, because we can share our lives with people. Unfortunately, most people just share the good bits about their lives, right, they don't share about the difficulties and struggles they have, but that's another conversation. So, for you, you're like that I don't want to put this label on your tool, but you're, you're the, you're the toilet reel. You know, you're like quick, quick, kind of snap. Okay, what can I learn from him? Very quickly, or I'm in the car, or I'm like walking somewhere. Like I'll just just see what Simone's put up today, right, or he's got a new reel. I'm just 30 seconds, I'll take something away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that Very, very valuable. Yeah, I like the toilet reel.
Speaker 2:Toilet roll, toilet reel oh my God, I'm good.
Speaker 1:These are just coming to me. And what about you? I'm curious. This is a good question. Why do you think people follow you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I should ask them as well. I've I've now been consistent on, I mean, instagram's the only platform and YouTube obviously. Youtube's very different to Instagram. Youtube mainly podcast, with some BTS tips and tricks, right, but longer tip, longer kind of insights. Instagram is I love posting my photos. That's just my outlet for my photos and I think most people who follow me want to see my photo. I don't think really the kind of the the podcast reels, that. So I post photos, podcast reels and then educational reels. I kind of rotate three and it seems to have worked. Like the last six months I've grown quite rapidly. Now it's kind of plateaued a little bit but I'm getting good engagement, which I I enjoy the engagement side of it, and good DMs and stuff like that. So I really love the social side of it. But I think, from what I can gather, people kind of look at the photos first. They like the photos and then they'll kind of follow up with those photos. You know how did you? What camera did you always get what?
Speaker 1:camera? What camera lens?
Speaker 2:So it kind of the education side usually follows the photos in my experience. But yeah, I mean I should ask them as well, Cause it's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, sure, and I think it changes quite a bit as well. Sometimes I don't know about you, but I found myself trying to change a little bit of strategy and type of content quite a few times in the last, yeah, three, four years. Did you? Did you always have I went from pure, pure, pure tutorials to then only try it a bit of lifestyle, which means I tried to cut down a bit of the tourist side of things and just show lifestyle and being is because I wanted to appeal more to a luxury type of brands, which actually failed because I just didn't enjoy that much and I love the tutorial side of things. So now I'm back to the tutorial element, while also adding some sort of standalone posts, standalone photos. Yeah, Cause I I like to mix up things. What about you? Did you always have the same strategy? Just go for it.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, when I really started to understand I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I about a year, 18 months ago, I decided right, okay, I'm going to give this a go. Right, I'm going to give it a period of six months where I'm just going to post every day but learn how the machine works. I kind of try and forget about the fact that the algorithm changed every few months. Just make sure I'm enjoying what I want to post, because I think that's fundamental number one you have to enjoy what you want to put out there and then just kind of analyze pretty much similar to your tactic and just spend time and I hated it.
Speaker 2:I, you know, create dummy accounts on Instagram with zero following, and I followed zero people, and just, okay, what is this machine going to show me today? Right, and all it showed me was like three major things. One was horrific accidents or fights or you know, just morbid stuff. Second one was like naked women or semi not fully naked women, but semi naked women doing provocative things. And then third one was education, was like insights into whatever you know industry. I was like, okay, I can do that From the little bit of education that I had done. I enjoyed it a bit like you, like I just enjoy giving back and seeing someone seeing it click in, someone seeing someone progress. So I, you know, I looked into that and then decided just on this strategy of you know.
Speaker 2:That point started the podcast as well. So it's like, okay, I can't do a photo every day, like I take too long over my, over my photos. I, you know, I want to take time over them, I want to build series et cetera. So I kind of mixed in that. And then I was. I had a kind of advisor at the time and he said, look, stick with it and see what happens, just be consistent. And he was just saying the most important thing is consistency at this time.
Speaker 2:Well, that's easy for me because it means I don't have to keep thinking about changing stuff. I can just set a strategy in place and just I just do it. And I haven't changed it for every. Well, about a year now, okay, and I've seen really good growth and so, yeah, I have no reason to change it at this time. But you know, I have to do an assessment some point and go, okay, you know, what can I still do? What do I still enjoy? You know, building the course and things like that I definitely still enjoy education side of it. I do just struggle with with compacting all of that into a 32nd wheel.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know how you do so.
Speaker 2:yeah, consistency for me has been the key.
Speaker 1:And like did you do you have, do you feel like some FOMO looking at others, people that can like, oh, I should do that type of format, I should do that type of content, or like you're good with.
Speaker 2:Only with photos, not with other types of content. I wish everyone the best. Usually, I used to, I think when I first started social media, it's like how is everyone doing this? I want to do that and I want to do that Now. I'm just like these guys are incredible at what they do Good for them, like it's inspiring to actually take their tips, you know, or take their style, not necessarily implement it, but maybe implement it in private. Not necessarily implement it on social media, but photos definitely. I get a lot of inspiration from other photographers Posting photos and I wish, I really wish, that Instagram would go back to, you know, being photography first platform. It never will, of course, but hopefully one day there'll be an app out there that kind of takes off that is just photography based, because I just miss it, you know, it's still the platform to go and see other photographers work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it, but now, like in the last maybe two, three months, photos started picking up slightly more than, apparently, than what it used to be, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, apparently I don't see much of that, although I don't really scroll again, like I'll go on to someone I know. Go on to their page or they'll come up. You know, that's what I wish actually would happen. More is the people that you follow get presented to you on your homepage more rather than new accounts that you don't follow that they're trying to get you to follow, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2:But I mean, you can't really, you know, you can't really get angry at the algorithm. You either work with it or you work against it right, yes, 100%. But yeah, ghana, a lot of inspiration from Instagram as well as YouTube. You know YouTube's different Like. I'm on YouTube way more than I'm on Instagram. I just love watching people tell me stuff, educate me stuff, and then I get ideas. Oh, that's a great little topic or great little way to do a video, whether it's technical or the creative side of it. I love YouTube.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same, same same same.
Speaker 2:I love YouTube. Promote this. Anyway, digress, let's talk about photography a little bit. You know, tell me a little bit about I want to touch on business a little bit later as well, but tell me about your photography mindset, you know. What do you like to shoot? What's your process? Are you still a guy in your room with an iPhone, or what equipment do you use? Just give us an overview of Simone and his photography.
Speaker 1:So when I was 19, just when I finished high school, I started doing modeling. So I was a full-time model and that's why I moved from my small village to Milan and that's when I really started enjoying a bit more photography, because I was in front of the camera but I was seeing all this set, all this lighting and then all this crazy stuff going on around me, and then you see the final result and you're like how is that possible that the photo looks like this when there's all this mess around? So I really enjoyed all the production of the final photos and it's a little bit like that. And then but still not interesting like the photography aspect just behind the camera. And then, slowly, when I started creating videos and then after that photos, I was like okay, what about, I try to create some self-portraits. So I set up a tripod, set up a camera and then in my garage I just started doing some self-portraits because I'm like I know how to post, I know how to be in front of the camera. Now I have a little bit more knowledge in the settings of the camera, like how to position it, framing, composition, all this sort of things, and I just loved it instantly because I was like I can take photos of myself, I can take my time moving the camera around, changing the angle, changing the lighting, try different things, and I just kept exploring and experimenting so much and I found really a lot of joy in like experimenting and try all the different things and, fun fact, every time I was trying self-portrait and maybe trying something different that I thought it would look like X. Then at the end of the day it was looking like Y, like completely different, and I was like dang, that's a real, because I didn't know that this was actually the final look.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example. There is one of the very, very first reels that went viral for me they went like crazy viral and like gave me tens of thousands of followers is how to do a black background portrait? Like the infinite background. There's just the person and everything else is completely black. I had no idea how to do that and it was completely random that I found out that you just need a very, very strong light in front of you. Then by the time you expose the camera correctly in front of you, then everything else would be black and then I took that photo and still today is my profile image of Instagram and it was the first ever self-portrait that I ever made in my garage and I'm like that's crazy. So I made a bunch of videos on this black background portrait photography and then they almost all of them went viral. I made a tutorial, I made a course with that and it's just like it's incredible. So that's how I started with the self-portrait thing. And then, because I really love the self-portraits, naturally I started shooting a lot of portrait as well of other people, just for YouTube, povs and stuff like this nothing like paid or nothing too serious.
Speaker 1:In terms of equipment, I am a non-light ambassador, so I use everything non-light. I have always with me a Forza 60B, which is a small light, and then a 60CM softbox so it's even here in Bali cause it's always in my luggage so that I can do my tutorials and my portraits whatever, wherever I am. And I use a lot of tube lights, also by non-light, so that I can change the colors. I can use this backlight, rim light, hair light, whatever I want. And then I have a Sony a74, which I really love always been a Sony user, never had any reason to change, and as a lens, my favorite is the 50mm f1.2, which is just incredible.
Speaker 2:I bought it for a job yes, crazy.
Speaker 1:And then I recently bought a 60 to 35 GM2, super expensive lens, enjoying it, and then the 28 to 75 by Tamron 2.8, which is like a everyday lens, basically Super versatile. Really enjoyed it. Whenever I want to use only one lens, I go with that one and that's it.
Speaker 2:What about beginners? What would you recommend they go to as their first kind of basic setup?
Speaker 1:So I would say, because nowadays iPhones are so good, I always suggest to not spend anything below $1,000 in a camera. There's no point. It's just like better to use your iPhone, but rather just save as much as you can until you reach $1,000. And then you can go. I usually suggest like a Sony a6400. I think that's a good starting point, which is already a great quality, but the reasonable price. And then whenever you have a bit of budget, then you go for a73 or a74 if you can, or even higher, but then if you go higher, then you don't have budget problems. Lens, obviously 24 to 70 or 28 to 75, whatever that is. I think it's just super versatile. You can do whatever you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, any light.
Speaker 1:Lights if you are budget friendly, if you're just starting out, there are two options. Either, when I started, I bought some $40 softbox from Amazon super cheap, but they already make a huge difference, huge difference. And, by the way, my first self-portrait, which is my profile image on Instagram, is done with that softbox $40 softbox. And then, if you have a bit of budget, go for the Nant Light Forza 60, which is again the one that I use basically on a daily basis. If you don't have budget, probably want something bigger, you can go for the Forza 150, forza 300 or above, but I think this is what I would do.
Speaker 2:This video is not sponsored by NanoLife, but if they want to sponsor it, yeah, those tube lights are fucking great. Yes, Cheap, versatile. You can do so much with them, especially if they've got the changeable cues saturation, brightness, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now you can control it also with an app. So it's super easy, because even most of the times I'm alone doing my stuff, so I just link everything, yeah.
Speaker 2:Definitely get a softbox.
Speaker 1:If you've got a flashlight, definitely get a softbox and many people think that a camera will improve your foot, Like a better camera will improve your photos. But I think better lighting is the number one thing. You should just take care of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fuck the camera. Yeah, it's all about lighting.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes. And people don't understand this until they try it. And then when they buy the Forza 60, whatever $200, or I don't know how much it is, but then they're like, oh my God, yes, yeah, lighting is everything, yeah.
Speaker 2:And this is why I kind of started doing the course, just because I would get a lot of that feedback Sounds like you've got exactly the same feedback. It's like what camera do you use, or what camera should I buy? You know, I've been looking at this and this and this like no, no, no, you don't need that yet. I mean, obviously, if you can afford a better camera, then cool, great. It's not going to necessarily make you better photos unless you know what to do with light as well as, obviously, so many other things. Talk about business a little bit. Where did the job start coming from? Is it all social media? Do you pitch to certain brands you want to work with, or is it just kind of, you know, see what comes up?
Speaker 1:So, because I had such a fast growth on TikTok and then when Instagram introduced reels, also on reels then let's say, the majority of the first things that I got were inbound, but then I also did a lot of outbound. In fact, nanlight was actually an outbound. So in December 2021, or maybe 2020 or 2021, I wanted to buy a professional light, which I didn't have at that time. And then I was looking through Amazon and then I'm like you know what I have? Like I don't remember how many followers did I have? Maybe 100K on TikTok.
Speaker 1:Why I don't try to reach out to all the different brands which were like Godox, nanlight, aputure and stuff like this. And NanLight came back to me. I'm like, yes, we're going to send you this and this and this in exchange for whatever tutorials, whatever there was. And then slowly I started showing them that I could do some good stuff a lot of creative ideas, a lot of good numbers on reels. And then they decided to start sponsoring me and I became an official ambassador with them and I'm still an ambassador today. So that's how I started. Let's say, most inbound, most are inbound With outbound is extremely difficult, but it is possible With outbound most of the times you need to offer free content in order to show them value, and then, when you bring them value, then you can start talking about money most of the time, yeah, I see this problem that we have at the moment, certainly with new photographers coming into the space.
Speaker 2:I just photographers, content creators, whatever you want to label them and they need to get work or they want to get work right, and so they end up pitching stuff for free. And then other photographers who've been a little bit more seasoned, they're pitching for stuff and the brands are saying, well, no, I can go with this person that's giving me stuff for free. Where do you see that reconciliation? What do you encourage people to do?
Speaker 1:I agree. But at the end of the day, this is the world and, like in a restaurant, you can decide you want to go for a cheap one, and then you're unsure about the result, the taste or whether you're going to get sick or not. You can go for a Michelin, michelin star, and then you know that the quality is going to be amazing. That is sure that you're going to produce a great meal and stuff like this. So I think it's just how the world works.
Speaker 1:In general, to my students I always suggest to go and propose them for free to local businesses, because they don't have anything, especially if you don't have a portfolio. If you go to a business, if you go to a bar or a coffee shop and you tell them hey, I'm going to make a video for free for you. If you want, you can either buy it afterwards If you don't like it, then thank you very much. It was a pleasure to work with you. So that's the way on how you can build confidence and portfolio. And then, when you have portfolio, you can start pitching brands because you have a proven track that you can make things happen at a great quality. So I suggest you start working for free. I think that's how you can get started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people think about oh, I need to pitch to all these big brands and then I'll give them free stuff so I can get free trip and free content. But actually the good compromise is exactly what he said you can just go across the street and to a local cafe that they're not going to have big budgets for content. But you can offer I can get you some free content and in return give me free coffee or whatever I'm upset.
Speaker 2:So I think there's nuances there that you don't have to necessarily devalue the rest of the industry by pitching to look, because obviously brands are going to be like oh, you're going to give me free shit, yeah, I'm not going to pay 10 grand to this seasoned artist. Obviously, the quality that's for them to determine, but there is a problem with that I see at the moment for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it can be a problem, for sure.
Speaker 2:What do you see moving forward as the future of content creation and kind of that world of creating stuff for brands, creating stuff for social media? Do you think it's sustainable?
Speaker 1:It's a big question, because one of the biggest problems that I had in the past year and a half is that just my numbers are really in waves. Sometimes I have amazing engagement and then I have two months where I don't even reach a thousand likes on photos, on reels, just because I think that's the nature of social media. So it's extremely difficult and I don't want. I want to move away from brand partnerships and just like getting paid only for my numbers on social media and therefore you need to find a different revenue stream that is more reliable. That's why also my courses and that's why we're trying to switch things up, because, yes, it is sustainable, but the competition is so hard, it's just crazy the competition.
Speaker 2:It is growing and growing and growing. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:But I do think there's still. There's still possible to make money out of content creation and do a lot of stuff, especially with AI. I'm really curious to see where we're going to end up with, because it's just every day there is a. I'm into AI, meaning I really love it. I think it's going to change Okay, already changed the world. I think he's just going to make the world better and better and better. It's just a bit scary, like quite a lot. Very scary Because it's unknown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't know how it's going to.
Speaker 1:And even just a year ago, it seemed like it was impossible to create a video out of AI, and now, with Sora from opening AI, you can just literally type whatever and he's just perfect. It seems like it was made with a camera, made with a drone, whatever that is. So I'm like, okay, I don't know, I don't know, it's going to be super fun to see. Interesting.
Speaker 2:Do you think that compromises creativity? I mean because even teaching, I mean your roots formula, for example. Right Again, I'm not dismissing it at all, but if you're teaching someone how to come up with ideas, doesn't that negate the definition of creativity in itself? If creators should be able to create, if you're teaching people to create, then kind of defies the logic of creativity, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's just like the way I see about ideas is there's like there are some method that you can use to be aware and then generate your own ideas, just mixing things up with your own experiences, with your own past, with your own whatever. So it's just like it's going to be very unique. So I just teach you how to be aware of those things and how you can look at your Instagram and understand how you can apply that concept to your niche. But then, with the AI, I think I'm sure it's going to be incredible also on an idea generation side of things, on the creation side of things, I'm sure we're going to be able to type a prompt and create a video with our bureau, with our voice, with our style, with our font.
Speaker 2:When you go to chat GBT say create me a prompt for a viral video idea that I can put into whatever AI machine. Right, the danger is. Whether it's a danger or not is anyone's guess, but that kind of just wipes away real idea creation and creativity in itself.
Speaker 2:So we'll just get AI to do it. And everyone's a content creator, everyone's making videos, everyone's making photos and it's like fucking hell, where do we go from here? But if anything and I'm with you I think it makes what we do even more valuable, like the authenticity of a real video with a real person or a real photo with a real person. Real story is only going to become more valuable, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm a bit scared. Yes, I'm not going to lie about that, because I was. I'm in a group with a few photographers friends and there was one of those that is a product photographer and now he creates unbelievable things on himself. But then I came across an ad that it was just literally typing I want a Red Bull can with some ice and fire and blah, blah, blah and then generate a lot. Oh crap, this is going to be gone very soon. This job.
Speaker 2:I think the first genre of photography that will be gone will be product photography. As soon as they get out I don't know if they have, but when I started playing around with mid-journey I was just because I it was weird, the timing was weird, like I was in the studio like, oh you know, I want to create a product photography portfolio. I want to have a few portfolios so I can put different types of photography out there to different brands. So I started doing some product stuff and then, literally about a week later, someone introduced me to mid-journey friend of mine.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, my God.
Speaker 2:And this was like version two at the time, I think, and I don't know what we're up to now version five or six, and yeah, just playing for hours with these prompts, creating incredible product images without the names, without the brands I still don't know if you can put brand names in there, but that's an easy Photoshop exercise I was blown away. I was like, okay, I'm not going to waste any of my time taking photos of products, so I mean, where that leads to is anyone's guess, but it'd be interesting to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I don't like even portrait photographers. I'm really scared, because now you can move your face, you can move your lips, your eyes, you can change your hair, you can change your clothes. I'm like oh damn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean that was, you know, that was still around when retouching came into things. So it's just gone levels, levels above that to a point where you can create from scratch, right? So yeah, I don't know, we'll see, we'll see. I've talked a lot about AI and thought about it and I'm probably wasting a lot of energy on it, but we will see. What I do know is that it's going to change very quickly, yes, very, very quickly. So kind of have to be aware. Yes, I've taken up enough of your time. We're going to end with a couple of questions. First one we have conversation cards, so I'm going to ask you I've told you about this before I'll ask you to do a lucky dip. Can you pass the Lucky dip? Pick one? Hand me face down and we'll see what question that? Nice, yeah, let's get this one. All right, here we go. Okay, what is the crazy big idea? You would try if you knew you couldn't fail?
Speaker 1:All right, that's a very big question, because I have so many things I would love to do, but now I'm just trying to go beyond what.
Speaker 2:I wildest dreams.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I am a huge helicopter fan and I know you're a pilot, so maybe I'm going to ask you for a few lessons in a few months, but I think in a few years time I'm going to get my license for a helicopter pilot, just because I love flying and love drones as well. And maybe, maybe my wildest idea would be to circumnavigate the world with a helicopter and document the journey, but like slowly. You know what I mean, fucking can I come with you, brilliant? Do you think that's possible?
Speaker 2:Achievable, of course. I mean crossing the oceans might be. I mean, it's been done before, so it's not going to be an issue.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, get your commercial license, get some experience, a lot of money. I mean, it's learning to. I did my private helicopter license, nearly broke me financially but it was probably the best, one of the best things I've ever done. Oh, wow. At that point I'd had 15 years of aviation behind me but always was interested in a helicopter.
Speaker 2:But the three-dimensionality of flying helicopters, planes, I mean it is three-dimensional, but an aircraft obviously left, right, up, down, right. Helicopter is like forward, back, left, right, you're left, you're right up down, like you can just do anything. It's like just a big toy, big dangerous toy. But oh my God, it's so much fun. I wish I could do more of it. So that's brilliant. Definitely do it. Definitely get your private license. Do it in the US, where the weather's good, it's cheaper than anywhere else in the world and just fucking enjoy it. Us. You said, yeah, I do in the US. It's the cheapest place to learn to fly anywhere. Ok, and then, instructor is pretty good. Do you like the West Coast or something where the weather's always good so you can fly every day? Bang it out in like a month.
Speaker 1:And then see yeah that's exciting Interesting. Do you prefer helicopters or planes?
Speaker 2:Not for heli. Well, I have way more experience with planes. I've only got private license like 100 hours in helicopters but I wish I could do more. It's just expensive and getting a job in helicopters is more difficult than getting a job with fixed wing. But yeah, as a, I always dreamt of buying my own helicopter, like an Robinson R44, like pretty cheap, very reliable, live somewhere where you can just fly it all the time. The States is the best place to fly anything apart from drones, because it's so restrictive. Right, because you can literally like there's so many airports. There's airports like five miles apart from each other. Wherever you go, there's airports and helipads, so you can just literally have your helicopter in your garden weather's good take off park in a car park.
Speaker 2:It's fucking brilliant. It's the so much freedom. So, yeah, do it. I'm really excited to see if you do that. We will, we will. Final question and this is from our previous guest, I'll get you to write your question for the next guest as well. If you weren't doing what you're doing today, what do you think you would be doing instead?
Speaker 1:Really good question. I've been there educational space and I think I would be running my own fitness center and just being probably a fitness manager or like teaching people and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Definitely teaching 100%. Yeah Well, you're very good at it and I hope you continue to do it. We need more people like you, teaching us how to be better photographers, artists, content creators. So thank you for coming on, thank you.
Speaker 1:It's been an absolute pleasure, my pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming to Barley. I hope you've enjoyed it. Yeah, I'm in a crazy place. Maybe I'll see you in Dubai one time.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'll see you there, bye-bye, cheers.
Speaker 2:Thanks, man.