Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this episode of The MOOD Podcast, I talk with Harry Pope, shedding light on the life of a young filmmaker and the challenges of balancing commercial projects with personal fulfillment.
Harry's transition from photography to video has been far from ordinary, a journey marked by the pursuit of authenticity in an ever-changing industry.
I gained insights into his emotional terrain of trying to pursue - persistently - one's passion, the pain driven by ambition, and the resilience required to carve out one's own path. Harry's reflections on the importance of taking a step back, recharging, and focusing on what truly matters serve as a poignant reminder of the delicate equilibrium we all strive to achieve in the digital era.
Always a pleasure to talk to my friend Harry, I hope you enjoy his company as much as I do.
Find Harry's incredible work across his socials:
Instagram: @harrypope
TikTok: @harrypopemedia
YouTube: @harry_Pope
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this episode of The MOOD Podcast, I talk with Harry Pope, shedding light on the life of a young filmmaker and the challenges of balancing commercial projects with personal fulfillment.
Harry's transition from photography to video has been far from ordinary, a journey marked by the pursuit of authenticity in an ever-changing industry.
I gained insights into his emotional terrain of trying to pursue - persistently - one's passion, the pain driven by ambition, and the resilience required to carve out one's own path. Harry's reflections on the importance of taking a step back, recharging, and focusing on what truly matters serve as a poignant reminder of the delicate equilibrium we all strive to achieve in the digital era.
Always a pleasure to talk to my friend Harry, I hope you enjoy his company as much as I do.
Find Harry's incredible work across his socials:
Instagram: @harrypope
TikTok: @harrypopemedia
YouTube: @harry_Pope
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
I don't want to rustle any feathers here. I don't feel like content creation is going to be, you know as big as it is right now. Anyone can call themselves a content creator.
Speaker 2:Anyone can just walk off the street without any experience, just come in here and go. Yeah, I'm a content creator.
Speaker 1:That I hate. It's getting to the point now where it is scary. If someone gave them a million dollars today, they wouldn't have a camera in their hand tomorrow.
Speaker 2:The difference between art and content creation is, in my mind, huge. What is your viewpoint on the impact of social media?
Speaker 1:Just the constant thought of needing to post all the time and what's trending, and it just set my mind into flames. Are people going to look at me when I say I'm setting up a production company? Are they going to look at me? Funny Imposter syndrome then sunk in and I was like am I ready for this? For me personally, it was just really bad for my mental health.
Speaker 2:God cut that. Welcome to another episode of the Mood Podcast. I'm Matt Jacob. In this episode I welcome back my friend, harry Pope. Harry is a very talented freelance filmmaker and videographer based here in Bali, who took a departure from photography last year and is now immersed full-time in the art of video and filmmaking. He works a lot with big brands around the world, and so it was incumbent upon us to talk a lot about his conflicts between passion, purpose and commercial pressures. We also talked about his opinions on social media, content creators and business techniques. When pitching for jobs, it's always a pleasure to sit across from Harry and glad we could do it again this time in a more appropriate and formal setting. So now I I bring you Harry Pope part two. Harry Pope, welcome back to the Mood Podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I say welcome back. We had you on here like a year ago I think it was kind of a shit podcast, not because of you, because of me.
Speaker 2:It was all my fault mainly because of my wife and assistant, who wasn't present and therefore we had loads of technical issues, but, um, so it's great to have you back. We've been meaning to do this for a while and we're finally in the same place, together for the same period of time. Exactly in the same place, together for the same period of time, exactly um, and you're not traveling, and travel has been certainly something of a constant in your life for the last year. Tell me what's been going on, what the last year has kind of looked like for you yeah, the last year has been busy and, you know, very fortunate that it's been busy.
Speaker 1:We've been working hard, working with some cool companies, creating cool videos, working with cool people, um, but, yeah, traveling a lot, traveling to uh, vietnam last June. Uh, I was in India late last year. Uh, greenland, greenland, twice in a year. I didn't even think about that. I did get Greenland twice in one year and greenland is a pretty intense place to travel to. You know, uh, we went in the winter and it was absolutely freezing, like minus minus 15, minus 20, and then we went in the summer, which was the season of mosquitoes. So then you're just like swarmed by mosquitoes, if you do really yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's like crazy, crazy, jed. Uh, we had these like netting things over our faces. Yeah, nets, netting things, nets over our faces. And they weren't like hats with nets, they were just literally like a net, like you just put a bag over your head and they obviously had little holes in them. And we were on a hike and they were going through the net onto our foreheads. I didn't get bitten as much but, yeah, I was kind of. My partner was basically saying, oh, keep getting bitten and I was like it's fine, it's fine, don't worry, like let's just get on with the hike. I wasn't getting bitten that much. That's why I was saying it's fine. She was like no, it's really bothering me. And we finished the hike, she took off her net and I realized why she had been, uh, why she had been saying it's really bothering her, because her whole forehead was swollen and uh, yeah, we were just, you know, we were bitten alive.
Speaker 1:Uh, if you do want to travel to greenland, it is incredible place. I would never say, you know, don't go there, but there are things that make it a very like difficult place to travel to and, um, but the scenery and you know they outweigh all the bad things that that are there, all the things that are gonna, you know, all the cold and stuff like that. But yeah, I would still say travel there. But coming back to my point, travel has been a big thing over the last year and I'm finding it nice now just to have some time off. I say time off of travel, not time off of work, but just, yeah, have some time to get back into a routine. The things I really miss playing paddle with you and Fi and Jed, and going to the gym and going for coffees in the morning. Just the little things that you can't do when you're just on the road, busy you know when do you go for coffees?
Speaker 1:I usually go to this place called Yore. It's not that nice, so I'm trying to find somewhere else. You need to build a little pop-up closer to home, mate, I know.
Speaker 2:Well, you say close to home, but for people who don't know Bali, it's like less than 10 minutes. For us, yeah, because we live in, you know, just around the corner from each other. So actually for us on a bike, it's like, oh god, yeah, 10 minutes is oh, I can't be bothered. Yeah, but for anyone else in a car it's, you know, in the in the western world it's not exactly a long way, so it's funnier perceptions, but how's life in bali treating you in terms of work and person?
Speaker 2:you know, for someone who's you know, your full, full video now right. So you're, you know you're doing some incredible love, all your short films, incredible filmmaking stuff, which I see you wanting to get out there and do more of. Yeah, but maybe kind of that, that creative outlet is a little bit limited for you just because of client work right, yeah, for sure. That's kind of the way the landscape is at the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, for sure. Like I always have to obviously go with the client job first, for sure for sure, like I always have to obviously go with the the client job first, um, you know, the dream would always obviously be to create what I want to create and and do videos about certain topics I'm interested in, um, but yeah, that you know you always have to fall under what the client wants and sometimes you might have to shoot a hotel and and make a hotel video. And you know I don't want to be a hotel filmmaker, you know, for the rest of my life. But it's, you know, money need money on the table. Really. So, uh, yeah, so the last year has been mainly focusing on client work, I would say, and, like I was just saying, in in the hotel travel space, um, but in Bali, more so, working for YouTubers and editing videos.
Speaker 1:George Hammond I work with him every month and he has a YouTube page now, a YouTube page, youtube channel, and we do weekly videos. So we're out recording pretty much every week for his YouTube channel. Again, I don't want to be a YouTube editor for the rest of my life, but he's a good friend and he wanted to do this for a long time, so I said I'd help him out with it. And it want to be a YouTube editor for the rest of my life, but he's a good friend and he wanted to do this for a long time, so I said I'd help him out with it and it seems to be going well. So, yeah, right now that's where I'm at, but then I know that I'm gonna have to travel.
Speaker 1:I've got to travel in three weeks for a job, so, yeah, but I'm looking forward to that one. I don't mind it when it's going to somewhere that I really. So I'm going to Australia in three weeks and I'm yeah, I know I don't know, it's a, it's a cool place to be, um, so I'm very, I'm very much looking forward to that. It's also with a company that I've been trying to work with for a long time, um, but yeah, I'm always thinking like where's the next big place I'm going to have to travel for for work, and do I actually want to do it, or am I quite happy just being here, or or you know, um something about.
Speaker 2:I mean, what are you 27 now and, um, you know, I guess, still evolving as a person as much as a filmmaker. So you know, it's interesting to hear and we I don't think we've had, and we're good friends haven't really had this conversation or I haven't heard you talk about travel in that way before, and I always felt that you were. You know, travel came, not came first, but it was in conjunction with your job and you always were kind of more than happy to do that. So it's interesting here, like having a, I mean having a routine. Certainly for an older guy like myself, having a routine is fucking everything. You know, it's the almost the, the core of happiness.
Speaker 2:Right it's like having routine, having home life, building a nice home for you where you just feel comfortable and happy. Um, that being said, like I I do understand still the desire for people and creators to really just want to travel all the time. Just don't know how they do it like even when I was your age, I was kind of wanting to sell that bag. You know everyone's different what, um what does that look like? Moving forward then? Because nearly all of your jobs you have to travel, because you don't have any jobs in bali or you can't do any jobs in bali, right? So you know, is that something you have to gonna have to change in the future in terms of living situation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I just like from the last, I would say, over the last six months I've really analyzed the kind of people that live in Bali, what they do, what they're working on, and I think that I came to like a consensus that it isn't the place I can be long term for what I want to achieve, came to like a consensus that it isn't the place I can be long term for what I want to achieve. I want to work in bigger productions. You know, obviously I'm dreaming really big here. But you know, tv, film, those are the things I'm really, really interested in and I just can't see myself working from Bali in in that type of scenario. So I feel like eventually I'm going to have to say you know what's better for my business? Is it living out here and being with my friends and, you know, enjoying my life, or am I going to be able to do that in other places as well? As, you know, finding work?
Speaker 1:These are like the constant thoughts that are bouncing back and forth in my head. But right now, like me, and my partner had a had a conversation about it because she was thinking maybe we should move back to Europe soon and, to be honest, like all of my friends are here, I still have friends at home, but you know we don't we don't speak that often. I would say. My really close friends are all out here and I couldn't imagine being in the rest of my 20s slash like coming into my early thirties at some point not having them around me and not being able to just text one of them and say can we go for a coffee here and can we go and play paddle here and such.
Speaker 1:So I can't see it happening just yet, but I do feel like there is a time when I'm going to have to just, you know, say enough's enough, and I don't feel like I can. I feel like there's going to be a brick wall and I'm't feel like I can. I feel like there's gonna be a brick wall and I'm gonna hit it at some point out here. And you know whether that comes in the next year, two years, three years, I really don't know. Um, we've got our villa for another year in Bali. We're probably gonna then move and find another place and, uh, I've got roommates who I love very much. But you know, my girlfriend's gonna be turning 30. She said she doesn't want her roommates going into her 30s you put that on her no no, no, I love, I love my roomies and we've had
Speaker 1:a great year and we're gonna have a great year ahead, but you know, there is time where we just want some space to ourselves. So, uh, so, yeah, I think after after that time, we'll find our own place and then, yeah, I just I think I need to really think about what I want to achieve. I'm always always thinking ahead, always thinking a year ahead. Maybe I should be thinking a year ahead in terms of other things other than work. This is something that Jed tells me a lot like. I need to actually think about my life rather than just work, work, work. But I always think about work first and what's, what's around the corner and uh, yeah, maybe I just don't see it being long term out here.
Speaker 1:I just see a lot of content creators out here, which I I don't think I am a content creator, you know. Going back to posting on Instagram that we were speaking about earlier, like I don't, I don't really post on Instagram anymore. Most of my work is creating for a company, creating videos, assets for a business to be able to use for marketing and and for their social media. So, yeah, I don't see myself in that niche and I feel like Bali is just growing and growing with content creators. And if you are a content creator, get yourself to Bali. You know it is the perfect place for it.
Speaker 2:Actually don't get yourself to bali.
Speaker 1:That I mean. It's a. It's a. It's amazing place for content creators. You've got literally everything you need.
Speaker 2:You've got enough people here there is enough people here.
Speaker 1:So if you've booked a flight, cancel it right now. But you, over the last two years, I've I've met so many people in the industry. Everyone comes here, everyone gets along, everyone shares new ideas. I've I've met so many people in the industry. Everyone comes here, everyone gets along, everyone shares new ideas. I've I've literally met some amazing, amazing lifelong friends out here. So I can't slay it too much, but I just yeah, I know there's going to be a point in time where I'm like I need to, I need to make my way to somewhere that's going to be able to get me to my next step.
Speaker 2:Do you find yourself almost creatively stuck in a corner because you barley is, you know, I know a lot of I don't know how to label what you do I guess cinematic filmmaking. You know if, if you were to go and do whatever you wanted to do, it'd be something like that right, go, make for sure some beautifully cinematic films about whatever you want to make. I feel like there are the, the filmmakers that either live here or come here. They do something that's cultural, because, you know, bali is obviously rich in in culture, whereas that doesn't seem to be. I know you, you do have interest in many other cultures and shooting many other cultures around the world, but Bali doesn't seem to be that for you, which is obviously there's something wrong with that. So therefore, do you feel like, well, obviously there's something wrong with that. So therefore, do you feel like, well, if I'm not going to do that in Bali, and then there's not kind of the genres that I want to kind of dig into in terms of car makers?
Speaker 1:or something.
Speaker 2:I know you want to. You know work with more vehicle manufacturers, bikes and cars and do some kind of epic shooting. Yeah if that's not here and you're not going to, you don't really want to shoot what Bali has to offer. Then you kind of stuck right you either have to get those jobs and therefore now you're in the travel, fucking shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or you don't right. And you find something else. Is that you kind of feel trapped in that respect?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, I think that I am in that kind of where that scenario where I will have just travel for work, scenario where I will have just traveled for work, like you just said, like I'm just going to have to suck it up and travel and, you know, go and go and search for the jobs that I really want to do.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I've, I've been shooting in Bali. I first came to Bali five years ago and you know, love the culture, started shooting a lot of photography back then, shooting the people and you know the the amazing landscapes that we've got out here, and then started to venture into other countries and shoot their cultures. But yeah, I've just been doing it for such a long time and I just felt there was like a again. I just didn't feel like there was a place that I could go and do this kind of work and I really don't know what made me not want to do it anymore. But I just felt like I'd done culture and I just wanted to move on to something else. And I know that there's a lot of other cultural photographers out there like yourself who are just, you know, absolutely killing it with with your craft, but for me I didn't feel my niche was there Um where is it?
Speaker 2:What's your? You know, you had a blank canvas and you pick up your camera. What are you shooting?
Speaker 1:Man, I still think I'm finding my feet with that. I love trying new things In every film that I do. Now I try at least one new camera technique. Give me an example. So for India, our India job, we did a film for Etihad, the airline, and this was a couple of months ago when I don't know if you have noticed a lot of clamp shots.
Speaker 1:This is like a very big thing at the moment. Yeah, think of filmmakers. So it's like attaching an object through a clamp in front of your camera, having the camera stationary on the other side and then the object would stay in the middle of the frame. So this was quite a big thing for filmmakers. I'm sure a lot of you, if you are filmmakers listening, will know exactly what I'm talking about. So we tried some cool camera techniques with that. We had like George holding the boarding pass and my camera was focused on the boarding pass and he was kind of like swinging it as if he was walking through the airport but you got the focus lock on like Etihad as the brand on the boarding pass. Same with like a phone the phone was fixed in the middle and he was typing in like the location that he wanted to go on the Etihad app and these are like little, little camera techniques that we used for that video Um where do you learn these techniques?
Speaker 1:Through shooting with the guys out here. I guess, yeah, um, I've been shooting with Mike visuals, who's yet to come on your podcast. I'll have to drag him on. Come on, mike. Yeah, I'm not going to chase you. Get your ass on, mate. Get your ass on.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, so he uses that technique a lot. He's actually got like a product that he bought out with small rig, like specifically for that, which, funnily enough and he knows this, so he needs to cut me in 5% we both were shooting with like this homemade rig that he had and he was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could just have a product that was exactly this? But you know, not all these pieces that I've mashed together from all the bits and bobs that I have at home, and that's how, like, his idea for the product came, came together and then he pitched it to small rig and and they loved it. So, um, so, yeah, that shooting with other creators and watching other creators videos on YouTube has definitely inspired me trying new things. The recent Hong Kong video that I haven't actually released yet. I used a match cut, which is like finding a shape, like a circle, and you find loads of different circles and you put them all, one after the other, very fast.
Speaker 1:So they kind of match in sequence yeah, just little things like that. That I've never tried before and I don't know if I'll use it ever again. But I'm quite open to using new camera techniques and just elevating myself as a filmmaker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's nice for someone to sit across from me and say, look, I don't know myself well, or I don't know, I haven't kind of cemented my craft with any specific style or genre or you know any kind of targeted job that I want to really go for, other than you know you have an idea of who you want to work with, generally speaking. Like, you know, what am I going to make? Well, I'm just going to. You know, I'm still kind of figuring that out and I think that's really a great place to be. You know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if anything, the opposite. So you still have an open mind with everything and accepting everything that comes your way and being able to, just like you said, elevate and evolve with that. When you mentioned, I thought because, when I asked you the question, why are you learning these skills? Like most people say well, youtube, yeah, you know YouTube. I know you love watching YouTube. Yeah, yeah, how, and we'll get onto youtube in a minute.
Speaker 2:But and you touched on instagram earlier how, how does kind of social media affect your world now compared to when we last spoke? Because you know, I know you're the sort of guy and nearly all of us are. You know, we. We look at other people, we look across our shoulder, we look across the fence. His grass is greener than mine, or that's where you know more innocuously. That's where I want to get to and that's my goal, and you're kind of always looking ahead rather than looking in the present, which is great when you're goal setting right. You're kind of trying to evolve, which is where you are. How does Instagram, social media and phones kind of play into that? Have you kind of trying to evolve? Which is where you are? How does Instagram, social media and phones kind of play into that? Have you kind of been able to push that aside?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I touched on it earlier, but just being able to find that posting on social media was really bad for my mental health and always thinking about what I had to post next, but also like people watching and just like thinking about other I had to post next, but also like people watching and just like thinking about other people over my own goals, and I got into a bit of a habit of like always watching what the other person was doing and what jobs they're getting and instead I just needed to, you know, have a bit of tunnel vision and, you know, focus on my own thing.
Speaker 1:And, funnily enough, I was in the gym with George the other day and I was speaking about another creator and what job he had and what he was getting, and he kind of looked at me and just kind of did the blinders uh, like the horse blinders um over my eyes, like literally like that, and just didn't say a word to me and just did that and I was like, yeah, I know what you mean, like I know I just need to ignore the, the noise, the background noise, and just focus on my own path as well um, why what?
Speaker 2:what made him do that? What were you looking at, or what were you I?
Speaker 1:can't remember what in particular it was. It was like a another you know few filmmakers here and there who were doing this kind of work and getting jobs like you know, working for car companies, working for this and and that and it. Just I was talking about it too too much to the point where he was probably like Harry, stop, like you, tell me about what you want to do, don't tell me about what they're doing. Tell me about what you've done.
Speaker 1:Yeah well yeah, exactly, exactly, like um, so yeah, it did. It did made me think straight away. I didn't even need to say anything after and I was like yeah, I know what you mean. Like I know, I know what my path is, I know what I need to do. I just need to work out how I get there, and if it's a bit slower than the next person, then so be it, you know still your story.
Speaker 2:Yeah everyone has their own. Exactly. How do you? I mean, that's so much easier said than done. Like you know, we will try and do that essentially. I mean, it's still good to kind of be aware of the environment and you know what's working for other people that may work for you if you were to apply it just like techniques right, oh, that technique might work so I'm gonna apply, but generally speaking, I couldn't agree with him more right.
Speaker 2:It's like it's just. In practice it's extremely difficult, especially when you've got. You know, take phone if you took phones out of our lives be much easier, right? What a life man. But it also it also provides, like you know, a great sense of inspiration to some people but, for you specifically. You know how does insta, because I know instagram used to be a big part of your life. Maybe not so much anymore no, yeah, just uh.
Speaker 1:I just found that all of the work I was doing was never related to my Instagram. I was never. I would do very small jobs that would be like a social media post or something for a job, and I got my following to you know, like enough where it doesn't matter if I needed more or less to get the kind of jobs I was doing, right. So it was fine like I was.
Speaker 1:I was that in that place, but just the constant thought of needing to post all the time and what's trending and it just set my mind into flames and I just couldn't stand the thought of, like, the next day, I needed to figure out what I needed to post that night to try and get engagement and to try and get people to, you know, comment on my, on my work and I know it's so good to put your work out there to get new, fresh eyes on it Um, but it for me personally, it was just really bad for my mental health and, uh, I know I think that a lot of people would probably relate to me and maybe think that they're in a bad mental state because of social media and all I can say is just like, take a break. It doesn't matter, you know, nothing's going to happen if you take a break.
Speaker 1:Well, again unless you lose your business and then you go back to your home country and then have to work as a supermarket. Then don't listen to my advice. There's nothing wrong with you working as a supermarket. We've all done it. Yeah, we have we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this kind of brings what you said brings it to this fallacy and almost delusion, especially in the art community, and even more so with the niche of photographers and videographers. They think you can't be successful in air quotes or, yeah, I guess, successful in what they do or in business, without a meaningful social media presence, which is absolute bullshit. Right, it just that is such an untruth that it's, but people don't know about that. And I, you know, I put myself in a 22 year old's position. Who's you know, maybe doing photography for a year, getting to a point where, okay, I can kind of do this, maybe I can start pitching for jobs. I've got 1000 followers on Instagram. How am I ever going to do this?
Speaker 2:And then I ended up putting 99% of my time and effort into creating for Instagram. And then you are now you are in this coffin corner where you're just you. You can't get out of it, because people know you for what you've put on Instagram rather than know you for who you are, or you know a greater body of work. So it's, you know, it's great to hear you say that, and obviously I know that as well. I've been through it and I just I don't know what the future of this space looks like, because those people who have found success without social media don't really have the platforms to shout about it, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2:That's why it's nice to have some people like that on the podcast, because they now have a voice, because all of our exposure is dominated by social media. You only ever see the people being successful on social media. So, you know, it's a really difficult situation. I don't know how creators whatever you want to label them as get past that.
Speaker 1:But I also. I hate the word creators, but I use it all the time because I never know I never know what to call people. It's like what are they? Artists?
Speaker 2:yeah, artists exactly what's the difference between it? We'll come back to the yeah, the question I asked you in a minute what's the difference between a content creator and an influencer and artist and a photographer and a filmmaker and all of these labels? You know you could be all of that together. You could wear various different hats. I hate the term content creator as well. Same same.
Speaker 1:Why? I think that it's just whatever the person wants to label themselves as, and they all have different meanings, but whether that person calls themselves a content creator or a filmmaker doesn't make a difference, like they're still probably doing the exact same work. But I think that's a really hard question to answer. I'd say, like an influencer is pretty obvious. You know, they are people who don't have the the best skills in the craft, they're not like overly fussed about the the deep, deep parts of filmmaking, but they will create content to, you know, help their audience with certain things and and I don't know promote certain products, etc. Etc. They're there to influence, I guess.
Speaker 1:And a content creator the only way I see it is someone who focuses on short form films and short form videos, and I can't. I never see a content creator who I see posting longer form films, documentaries and then saying that they're a content creator. You know that's. I always feel like content creation is short form and I feel like creation is short form and I feel like filmmaking is long form and cinematography and videography is a lot more longer form. Video and then photographer is, you know, self-explanatory.
Speaker 2:But what would you say? A youtube channel owner is with who makes 20 minute videos I'd say it's depending on what the video is.
Speaker 1:If it's like a true cinematic, it's a filmmaker. If it's educational, I would say you're more so that side of your business is more so of a youtuber. But then you can be a you know, a photographer who's a youtuber as well, who has a youtube account. There's so many different labels and whether it matters or not, I don't. Don't think it does.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it does, but I think that it's. All of these labels are labels that you can give yourself without any predisposition, predisposition to anything else and pre requirements or qualifications. Like anyone can just walk off the street without any experience, just come in here and go. Yeah, I'm a content yeah exactly that I hate. Yeah, because it, because it's homogenous.
Speaker 2:Now it's democratized to, and there's nothing wrong with that. To a limit, it's like you can, just yeah, but you can be whatever you want to be. Well, no, you can't. You can't go and be a doctor unless you've got, you know, a good brain loads of qualifications loads of education and years of experience so you can put your mind to it and eventually, one day, you get there. But that's where content creation is frustrating for me, and even as a photographer right Self-taught photographer.
Speaker 2:What makes me say I'm a photographer and this is a completely separate conversation altogether, one that I want to address at some point. People who say they're photographers and you look at their work go. You're not a photographer. No, You're not, You're an influencer or you're a content creator or you're just not good enough to say you're a photographer. Yeah, but I take photos. Well then, everyone's a photographer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we've got a different, different kind of way of talking about it, right?
Speaker 1:but, um, it's a very fine line, there's just like I don't think there's like one surefire answer for that. Um, yeah, you know, but go. But I feel like I don't want to rustle any feathers here, I just do. I just don't feel like, in my personal opinion, I don't feel, I don't feel like content creation is, um, going to be you know as big as it is right now. I feel like content creation is going to be you know as big as it is right now. I feel like there's only going to be a matter of time before you know content creators right now feel like that they've got to a point where, okay, they're, they're getting older now and then they have to go. Am I still going to be making the same content as what I'm doing? Or how am I going to evolve this new content? You know they might be shooting stuff in Bali. You know going to cool places in Bali and shooting travel content, but how long does that last?
Speaker 1:But by the time you've done it for 10 years, does that not get to a point where you're like, what's? How can I elevate this? What's my next steps? I just don't. I don't feel like content creation has like a, a path all the way to the top. I feel like it gets to a level and it's just like where, where'd you go with it after that? Yeah, you can I don't know start your own agency or uh, that's the only thing I don't know. I can't see the top sort of success points of it. And that doesn't mean that, you know, success is so. It's so different to every single person. But you know, I just couldn't see myself doing content creation for the next 10, 15, 20 years.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's going to be a point in time for a lot of other people as well where they're like, ok, what's next? And then they just don't know which path to go down because they've been doing content creation for so long. A lot of the people that I have spoken to in the content creator industry aren't even that big of fans of photography and videography. You know that's their job and that's what they do. And content creation they've kind of fallen into it. But if someone gave them a million dollars today, they wouldn't have a camera in their hand tomorrow, whereas that's the complete opposite of me right now, like if someone gave me a million dollars today, for sure I've got a camera in my hand tomorrow. That's the only thing.
Speaker 2:Which camera would you? Have sony even if you had a million dollars sony right now, until I sell it, put it on ebay that night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm only saying that.
Speaker 2:It just in case there's any sony ambassadors watching it's actually a good, real, a really good way of putting it. Actually, I've thought about it like that if you've got a content creator on one hand and a photographer filmmaker on the other like truly passionate photographer filmmaker on the other and each are given a million dollars, the content creator would likely give up making content.
Speaker 1:I would I would think that most of them would most of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to label yeah, whereas you would, you would probably upgrade your camera, and that's about it.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, pretty much, and just get a few more lenses, and still because it's. Probably get a nice house somewhere in the Bahamas and go on a holiday, because it's vocational, it's like you would love it and that's what you would do even if you had no money or loads of money, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I think and maybe we're not about does content creator creation matter? Do what we call content creators matter is are they important for society? Are they helping us, hindering us? I think I think what really matters in terms of distinguishing what they are, what this you know umbrella of kind of craftsmen are is the intention behind it in terms of, okay, if, if I'm a content creator and I just enjoy making content, you know I'm, I'm a I don't want to kind of pigeonhole loads of people here but if I'm a stay-at-home mom and I just want to do tips on how to bring up kids right yeah, because I enjoy that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if I blow up, I blow up, if I don't, I don't. But I just enjoy making content and I'm a content creator, yeah, cool. But if I'm a content creator and I'm giving tips on this and I'm calling myself an artist and I'm kind of, you know, playing above my pay grade, almost yeah, then I just don't think it's like anything.
Speaker 2:If you have the right intent or you are honest with that intention, I think then we can all get along and and, uh, you know, respect that yeah, yeah, but the difference between art and content, creation, is in in my mind like huge and that's my problem with. It is when people go. I'm a content creator like as if it's something that's cool and trendy and you should be really proud of. If you're getting to like a million subscribers on YouTube like fucking, You're a content creator.
Speaker 1:You're a content creator, and a really good one.
Speaker 2:For sure Like good for you.
Speaker 1:Like Peter McKinnon's, of this world.
Speaker 2:I'm taking absolutely nothing away from that. Because you're taking a skill, you're learning how to put that skill into something that's of effective output. Yeah, and you're doing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like good for you and and a lot of the people that I learn things from and watch online are all content creators like I'm not I don't want to bad mouth them because I don't feel I don't think that it's a bad thing to do uh, I just can't see that at all. I just can't see the longevity in it. I just can't see where the next steps you could take. And hopefully there's a lot of people out there that have figured that out and they've got a game plan and they know what they want to do.
Speaker 2:But it's where content creators and influencers and we're talking about the impact society in a minute but it's where content creators and influencers think they're better than they are- at whatever they do. Like just fucking pipe down a minute.
Speaker 2:Like you down a minute, like you've got a following, because people like who you are, like you didn't create who you were, you were born who you were. Like well done, you've put that, you've spun that in a way that people enjoy watching, listening, like that's amazing, like that's a, that's great, but that's it. Yeah, like let's not get carried away here it's not art. Yeah, in my, in my opinion, that is not art. Art is something that's evergreen, that will will last. There's timeless right.
Speaker 2:Whether it's successful art, not successful art, it's there as a piece of art whether it's a film, short film, documentary, photo, series of images, even NFTs all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Anything with meaning?
Speaker 2:I think Anything with meaning purpose and intention to be art. Yeah, right that. That, for me, is where they are vastly different. And if you fast forward 100 years, like would I want to go back and watch a video that someone's put on youtube about their day? No, no, no, that, and that's the difference. It's the same analogy with the million dollars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, that. That for me, me makes such a big difference. Hi everyone, Before I let you continue with the podcast, just indulge me for a few minutes. I want to briefly talk to you about my new brand, Yore. Founded with my business partner and photographic artist, Finn Mattson, we are proud to bring you a new artisanal jewelry and specialty coffee brand. Yep, what on earth do they have to do with anything? Well, they're both our passions and they've always been another artistic outlet for me. Now, for over a decade.
Speaker 2:For those that know me, coffee and jewelry have been my other obsession since I was young, and I am a qualified SCA coffee specialist. So when I met Finn, some of you might have listened to my podcast with him. When we barely knew each other, our love for art and jewelry had a home, and that home is Yore. Yore is about the art of intent for everything that we do. Our intention with the label was to add a touch of celestial elegance and artistic expression to our visual narratives. Every piece is a statement, a reflection of your unique story and purpose. It's not just jewelry, it's a wearable piece of art that speaks volumes. Picture this silver or gold adorned with an actual piece of lunar meteorite, making every piece as unique as the moments we usually capture through our lenses. From limited edition lunar jewelry pieces to finely crafted 925 sterling silver and gold rings, pendants and chains there's something for all of you in each of our unique designs.
Speaker 2:We're also committed to the environment as much as possible. Our coffee in our Bali showroom is direct trade, organically produced and locally farmed, minimizing impact on the environment as much as possible. Our packaging is all sustainable and our jewelry recycled other than the moon rock, of course Proudly eco-friendly. In both packaging and jewelry production, you can feel good about looking good. And to top it off, we offer worldwide shipping, ensuring that a piece of lunar beauty can grace your collection no matter where life takes you.
Speaker 2:And if you ever find yourself in Bali, please come and visit our house of Yore. Our cafe and community-driven art house is a haven for creatives just like you. And before we head back into the podcast, please just take a moment to explore Yoray's collection. As a special treat for you, my wonderful audience, Yoray is offering an exclusive discount, so head over to our website and use the code in the description for a 10% discount off your jewelry purchase. The link and details are all in the description. So thanks so much for listening, and I'll let you get back to the podcast now. So what is you know? Now we've kind of got the individual side of content creation sorted.
Speaker 2:We've solved it. Yeah, what is your viewpoint on, I guess, the impact of social media, not just on the photography world but generally on people, because I know we all have differing experiences with the usage of our phones, especially Instagram?
Speaker 2:It's been linked to many mental health diseases yeah and, uh, the phones have, let alone instagram and social media platforms, and they've got a lot to answer for, in my opinion, yeah, but they can also be seen as great tools for, certainly, photographers, videographers, filmmakers with inspiration, reaching a new audience, sharing ideas, yeah, getting money, yeah, yeah. So I mean, how does that affect your opinion on? You know, certainly, since you've stopped kind of using it as much, where do you think kind of society goes and and is it really a bad thing that we still have the instagrams in our lives?
Speaker 1:I mean, I was speaking to a friend about this recently and and his view was that content creation is going to be the biggest thing in the world. Give it five, ten years and it's going to surpass a lot of jobs and the money that's going to be involved in it is going to be crazy. Me personally, I just can't. I feel like there is going to be a wall that people hit. But then I think about the new generation coming into it. I guess it's the type of content that is out online and, like you said, outside of photography and things like that, like the photography, filmmaking side of social media is 1%. There's so much involved in social media and I think it's probably one of the most toxic places that you can ever spend your life is scrolling through their Instagram.
Speaker 1:That isn't, you know, isn't related to your craft, or isn't you trying to learn something? It's you watching TikTok dances and crap like that. You know, I just I can't fathom it. I just can't. It doesn't make sense in my mind. I look at these. Sometimes one will come up if I'm on instagram and I'm like how do you? I'm sorry if anyone's listening and they do this, but how do you? How do you, how do you, how do you set up a camera and dance in front of it or do that kind of, that kind of? I know I've gone into a bit of a on a separate, a separate path there, but yeah, I just, I just can't, can't see it.
Speaker 2:I think that's our. I think that's the audience's fault as much as the platform oh yeah, I don't think it's anything to do with the person who's dancing right, because we're just fueling that it's like why do I'll go one step further? Why do people enjoy watching that? Yeah, I know, yeah, I just but you know, they probably ask why do you enjoy watching, you know, short film?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's true, or whatever yeah, I love watching, like gear videos just taught and you know I like watching not cocaine videos cocaine videos. I like watching camera camera let me say the word camera first. I love watching when people like build a camera rig. It sounds so weird, I don't know why it's a bit nerdy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that yeah yeah, I love that side of filmmaking. I think that's why I wanted to go down the production route as such. Um, because I just love all the different pieces that the maker. A bigger picture, I guess I should touch on the fact that, you know, I I used to do a lot of photography, and photography is where I first started getting into the industry and I slowly delved away from it because I I again hit a brick wall. I hit brick walls quite often, apparently. I just seemed to like hit a brick wall and have to go in a different direction.
Speaker 1:There's so many fantastic photographers out there and I just felt like my, I couldn't find a presence in the photography industry. I couldn't find my own style, my own path. I was getting heavily influenced by people around me, but it never felt like it was me. It always felt like I was copying someone. I struggled to come up with new photographic ideas and then that's when my sort of I led to video and film and, uh, I just loved all the elements that came together. It allowed me to be way more creative.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, I guess, like for you, when you go out and and, and you know, photograph a local person, you're never going to get that same experience. No one's ever going to be able to copy that same experience. You know that person is going to be gone. You're're never going to get that same experience. No one's ever going to be able to copy that same experience. You know that person is going to be gone. You're probably never going to see that person again. No one's going to be able to find that particular person that you photographed, to go back to them with the same lights that you had, in the same conditions that you had, and take that photo.
Speaker 1:But I was doing a lot of landscape photography and that kind of yeah, in that sort of field where someone could just come behind me and take the same photo as me, and I felt like I, you know, I was literally just one, one step behind the person in front who was doing the exact same thing. And with film, I feel like no one could ever recreate what I did, you know when we say film, not film photography, but sorry, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So like filmmaking, um, yeah, no, but movies, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:So, like filmmaking, yeah, no one could ever recreate what I was doing. You know, there's no way someone can get the exact same shot and put it together in this exact same style, and that's why I really felt like that was my path and that's where I wanted to go. Yeah, Nice.
Speaker 2:On that note of photography, I went to China last year and you know you as you know, china and landscape photography is like massive right, the droves come in and, yeah, beautiful, obviously, but the beauty attracts just fucking shit loads of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um, you know I wasn't there for landscape, but I went to some beautiful places and I won't give away the location because I don't need any more people. But I went to this one spot which just looked over these beautiful mountains and I turned up at sunrise. I took my camera, obviously, like I don't do landscape photography, I'm not very good at it.
Speaker 2:I don't share it, but you know, I have some in my portfolio and I thought I'll just get some shots. If thought I'll just, I'll get some shots. If it's nice, get some shots, if not, I'll just enjoy the moment. Couldn't enjoy the fucking moment just because they were literally yeah I would say about 100 people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all lined up just getting the same shot like you know, frothing over the gear and the lenses and tripods I was about to say they all had tripods, didn't they?
Speaker 2:like I mean okay, if that's what you enjoy, that's what you enjoy, but don't come at me saying that's art yeah, yeah well, maybe it's not one of a kind that's for sure, it's not unique original. So you know there's plenty of that in photography, so I definitely see that attraction. With filmmaking it's just more three-dimensional yeah, exactly got so many more moving parts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's impossible to recreate it yeah, exactly, and then, like you can take, always take it one step further with in that, in that space where you've got, you know, someone with a camera and then you can have two cameramen on set and then you can have someone who's there for audio and you can have someone there for lighting, then you've got the talent that's involved, the locations.
Speaker 1:There's so many different components that it can. It can eventually get to, which is one of the reasons that I've always thought my end goal is working for a production company and I'm but in nowhere near, in nowhere near close to having that as my, as my dream. But I thought I needed to. I actually thought why? Why am I dreaming to work underneath someone when I've worked for myself for so long? Yeah, so I little plug. So, yeah, I started my uh, like my own production company in a way.
Speaker 1:Um started going under as a production team with a couple of other guys and, yeah, that's going to be my sole focus is working as a production unit, having people involved and being able to get my friends in on jobs as well, because I love working with my friends. Like that has been one of the best things about being in this industry is getting to do jobs and, like, bounce ideas off each other and come up with this end product that I'm so proud of. Um, so, yeah, that was the next step for me, and imposter syndrome then sunk in and I was like, am I ready for this? Like what I've. I've not been in this industry for too long. Can I even say, like, if people are going to look at me when I say you know I'm setting up a production company, are they going to look at me funny? Are they going to think, well, you're nowhere near ready for that, but I just got to do it and you know. Fuck the haters.
Speaker 2:Speaking of hate, let's talk about influences again. Yeah, um, yeah, we're always, always going back to that. Well, we started there and then somehow we digressed into um, filmmaking and um, and and and photography. But yeah, um, we'll get back there for sure. We just want to kind of wrap up this this the way we are all kind of utilizing social media and the way it's kind of affecting all of us, whether it's in a professional or personal sense, but definitely in the professional and the artistic sense, how we then create, how we then inspire. And I see so many people and I've had a few on the podcast who've been wonderful guests, but what they do is so, the way they do it and the intent behind it is so different to maybe me or someone else who doesn't have social media as a priority. These people, some of these people out there photographers and videographers, content creators they live every day by their social media presence. They will introduce me to people by saying how many followers they've got right, or their.
Speaker 1:It's like their instagram name, like what the fuck are we doing? Yeah, yeah, you know that's not real, right you?
Speaker 2:know that's a virtual reality. Yeah, there might be real people at the end of the phones, but they're not like get people in a room, get eyes on you, you know. It's just a really interesting way that the landscape is shifting and I don't see any respite in that. I kind of agree with you in terms of content creation. I don't see that as a, as a, as something that's going to be around forever, mainly because um, I'll get into a question a minute mainly because I see more and more people coming on the scene. So the market generally, content creation, is get it is it's saturated.
Speaker 2:Now it's like over over saturated, which means prices come with that, right. So you end up now getting loads of new people coming into the market and just doing shit for free, right? So where do we? Where do we? You mean, the way I see it's going to implode, yeah, and brands are going to be get so used to like just getting shit for free. Yeah, and obviously content creators can't live for free. Yeah, yeah. And then what happens? Right?
Speaker 1:There's that brick wall. It's like an endless cycle. Yeah, it's like exactly that's the part of where I didn't think there was any longevity in it, because I feel like, like you said, everyone is doing more stuff for free, doing collabs, because they want to go on a nice hotel, go to a nice hotel, go on a nice holiday, but then, yeah, companies are just going to expect that. And going back to what my partner does, she has managed me for the last five years. She also has done some work managing other people as well, and this year in particular has been the hardest part of her career because she's struggling to get through to anyone that you know you need to pay for what the services that we're doing, but they are just like.
Speaker 1:No, we've changed things around now. You know content creation is is basically something that we're already doing collabs for, and it's actually crazy to see that the people that you know I've worked with for the last few years are now completely restructuring their whole. You know content creation campaigns to only collabs and only free pay, like free projects.
Speaker 1:So good or bad, terrible, yeah, absolutely terrible. Because it it does affect me, because I, you know, the things I do also are in that kind of industry. Although I don't get in labor myself as a content creator. Sometimes I have to do those kinds of jobs because the money might be really good but at the same time now it's not good because they're just.
Speaker 1:You know, there's so many people out there who will also not challenge a company, who will, like I don't know. They'll come in and say, no, sorry, we only do collabs. The first reply that you know we ever send is I'm sorry, like, these are our rates. Or you know, the production that we're going to be able to do it comes at a cost. We can't do it for free. We have to pay the bills. We literally put that in emails. You know we have to pay our bills, this is how much it's going to cost you. And then they just say, okay. Well, you know one of the reasons why I can't see myself being in that social media game for, you know, any longer and just focusing on creating assets for companies to be able to use for marketing and things like that, instead of, you know, promoting the company through my social media Because I just feel like there has been a rapid decline in the amount of companies that want to pay for, for good quality stuff.
Speaker 2:So I also double down on that and say that and this is a conversation I had with a few of our mutual friends who disagree with me, and I'm okay with that I think we'll probably agree to disagree forever. But well, until we see what happens with content creation and social media in general, it's definitely not going away.
Speaker 2:Let's put it like yeah, until the algorithms change to favor. You know, artistic integrity? Yeah, we're going down one path where we're all becoming more stupid by the day because we're not getting any kind of integrity with what we see. Whether that's whether we're not getting any kind of integrity with what we see, whether we're artists following artists or we're normal people following TikTok dancers. Short form content, generally speaking, is not truly educational content. You can only communicate so much in 60 seconds or less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you can't have a conversation with these people to converse, to have discourse, to argue, to disagree, to do this, yeah. So that's out the window, yeah, and you don't have the long-form option, which is where I think YouTube is really winning, because you kind of do everything. It's not predicated so much on the amount of followers or amount of likes that you get, so you're not you. Obviously you do care about that. You know, I'm speaking from experience.
Speaker 2:But it's not like I need to go and make this YouTube video because this is what the algorithm is saying.
Speaker 2:I should make and this I need to get another few thousand subscribers by this. You know, and that's my goal. That's my goal because I'm gonna get business from it. Yeah, like all of that does matter, but it's very different. Yeah, I just I, just I I wrangle with not being able to have proper conversations with people and it's the whole reason I started this podcast. So I, I saw the way and podcasting is obviously blew up surprisingly for me in the last five, five years. Especially podcasting is now blew up surprisingly for me in the last five years. Especially Podcasting is now huge.
Speaker 1:Almost everyone's a podcaster right, it's like content creators. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh what? You're not a podcaster?
Speaker 2:Oh God, yeah, I'm a podcaster, totally, but it really surprised me because that conversation and I thought so maybe I am wrong, but I thought people don't really do that anymore. They'd rather be stuck on their phones for a start, and even when they're on the phones, they're just fucking gorging on this yeah and then they're watching something that probably means nothing, granted there's some amazing tips and tricks for any industry, but generally speaking, you're watching shit and it's ruining your brain. Yeah, exactly, you know you could be reading a book, but all you're watching shit and it's ruining your brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know you could be reading a book, but all you're doing is scrolling on Instagram, and for many people, 10 hours a day. Yeah, yeah, for sure I think the average and this is probably old data now, but the average in the I'm still doing this it's probably gone up, though I mean it was six hours a day on social media, the average across mid 20 year olds.
Speaker 2:I think they took a sample between 20 and 30 year olds across the US last year. It's crazy, it's insane, it is crazy. You know, obviously there are nuances to that, but you know I spend a lot of time on my phone, but 10 minutes of that is Instagram, yeah, and a lot of it's WhatsApp and a lot of it's email. So you know I'm by no means perfect. My wife always tells me to get off my phone especially before bed.
Speaker 2:But I just I'm so conscious of, I'm so conscious of not getting dragged down with that and as photographers, and as film makes videographers less so because it's a native medium, it's like, well, you're posting a video, I make videos anyway, photographers. It's like, well, I've got to get sucked into this.
Speaker 2:It comes back to no, you don't have to. Yes, it's great if the intended use is business or an audience to sell something to right, but you don't have to get sucked into that if you don't want to. But photographers it's difficult because we're still image people. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And there is difficult because we're still image people, yeah, yeah, and there is no still image app out there really anymore. So, um, this is a conversation I've had with george for a long, long time. Like he, he has felt the george hammond. Yes, yeah, he has felt the pressure of reels and short form content for a long, long time and he just went. You know, I'm I'm not going to fall into that trap. There might be like a clip that he got whilst he was shooting that he's really happy with and he's going to post as a reel and for his business. He's going to post a lot more educational stuff because he his business is, you know, based around education. But he never fell into that trap of like I need to post, because it's the trend now, as reels, you know, like reels are becoming a thing, I need more engagement. So I'm just not going to post photos anymore, I'm only going to post reels. I feel like a lot of photographers went into that yeah, me included.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I still do. Yeah, yeah, I don't like I don't. I don't do so much tips. I think I do a tips and tricks, maybe once every two weeks, yeah, which is really not enough.
Speaker 1:The rest of my reels are podcast clips, but then I think that's a bit different, because I feel like that's your brand and you've got so many pieces to your brand that you know I don't feel like content creation is the worst thing if you've got other parts of your business and that's just one of the pieces. Short form content. You might be doing educational stuff, it might be small cinematic things, but that's not the entirety of your business. There are other parts to it. You might be a YouTuber, right, but then you need to do short form content to be able to drag people into your longer form things.
Speaker 2:Again, it's the intention behind what you're doing it for yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, like sole content creators who are just focusing on one thing. I just going back to what we said. I just can't see it going anywhere yeah, find something else. Yeah, go away to add. Yeah, leave bali.
Speaker 2:No I'm joking. It's now got to a point where I'm going to move on in a minute. But it's now got to a point where take bali, for example, because we know it really well people come here to do an intense week of just influencer photo spots. Yeah, that, for me, is ruining, and not just the photography industry, but just society.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah like why are you not coming here to meet the people and learn about a different culture, and meet new people and make friends and experience the cuisine and the beaches and the landscapes without getting a fucking selfie? Or doing the usual pose looking up beneath the waterfall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got I.
Speaker 2:It's just not helping anyone other than themselves, and you can see that with with people like you who are trying to get work in this industry. All of us are and we go right. There are rates like what yeah, yeah you get. You either get nothing, you get tumbleweed, yeah, or you get people coming back. Now it's way too expensive so we have. I've been charging this like yeah you know.
Speaker 1:So it's just, it's just diluting everything it also goes back to what you're saying about what we're actually consuming online, because people are consuming iphone videos and you know, travel tips and things like that, whereas I don't feel like they're consuming at the moment longer form content films. But then that's if a brand sees that they're only going to hire people who are doing iPhone videos and very, very short, easy videos to do, but then that opens the market to everyone with a bloody iPhone who can come here and go to Nung Nung Waterfall and film themselves and film the waterfall and maybe put a product there and then, you know, get the free products or even get paid. You know it's like it feels like everyone is. Anyone with an iPhone can do it, and then that goes back to your point of anyone can call themselves a content creator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it if people used that, if the majority of creators confident creators, influencers, whatever we want to call them if the majority of those people used it for good, altruistic means right, Maybe they're helping a charity, but that's not how our human race works.
Speaker 2:It's people want something for themselves. Obviously, and I get that We've all got to pay our rent. But when it becomes this kind of thing to be cool and to be an influencer and to undercut everyone else that's trying to work so hard to do it well and do it properly and forge long-term relationships with clients, and brands. It's just, I don't, I just don't believe in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it. You know, I've been in this game for about the last five years and to see a lot of people with a lot less experience coming into it and getting the kind of work they're getting, it is hard, you know. I think a lot of people might say, no, I don't care, you know, but they definitely do care. It's very hard to watch people coming into this industry who haven't been doing it as long and having, uh, you know, as much success as they've been having. Um, it definitely does hurt when you, when you put a lot of time into your craft. You know, I've I've spent I can't even count the hours of how much of learning that it took me to nail what I've done and then to hear like a company wouldn't pay me for all of the, the time that we've spent, like the time that I've spent learning this stuff, over someone who you know bought the new iPhone 15 pro and can can make some cool content. Uh, yeah, it's, it's baffling, um.
Speaker 2:I think we have a responsibility like yeah.
Speaker 2:George's a great example. Now, you mentioned him and his Instagram page and I talked about this with him in person, but there's two sides to this that I think he's done really well and maybe not so well. No, actually, no, there's one side where I think he's done really well. Ie resist reels, yeah, but I think he's done really well. I resist reels, yeah, because if but I think he was in an easier position to do so because it already made such a huge base when Instagram was much more conducive to photos. I'm not saying that's why he did not the sole reason why he's obviously an amazing artist, yeah, but he was posting. He set his Instagram up when he was, um, when Instagram was um, when instagram was, you know, there were no, yeah, so that helped. I'm not saying that was the cause causal factor, but when reels came along and and I've, you know, spoken about this with him as well and he's just kind of said, well, no, I you know I'm a photographer, I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 2:What he's doing there is sending a signal to his students, to the younger generation, to newbies coming to space Like you don't have to do reels. It's different for him, though, because he's got a million followers or whatever he has, so he doesn't feel like he has to. Maybe he feels like I want to kind of make sure I'm still present still getting engagement, still having an audience, not losing them.
Speaker 2:But I think sending a signal like that is really important. And on the other side, I speak with friends who, for me, set the wrong example by focusing on social media as their priority. Photography, or whatever the craft comes second, right. It's like okay, what am I going to post today? How am I going to engage? I spend another hour on my Instagram and then do this and then do this and then post this, and then I'm going to go and get that photo and make it look like something I know works. So I'm going to make a video, a video idea that I know works, and then I'm going to replicate it and put it on mine.
Speaker 2:For me, that's just wrong in every way. If you have an influence, if you've got 100,000 followers or more and you're doing that, you should, in my opinion, have a responsibility to educate people who are trying to get where you are. So I don't know. Know, I think there's it's obviously there's many complexities, but I do feel we have to. We have to set the right example and you're doing it, unfortunately, now, now that you're not posting that, you don't. You don't necessarily have that voice. Do you know what I Like. How do you speak to your audience? You have to craft an audience off social media, but to get that audience you probably have to be active on social media.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a catch-22 position.
Speaker 1:I guess, like my audience has, you know, always been there.
Speaker 1:If I still post something now, I will still get the same people always commenting, which is really nice to see, but I'll still get the same people always commenting, which is really nice to see, but at the same time, I'm not selling any digital products. So I feel like my audience, apart from seeing cool things, they're not. It's not that they're not important to me, but like I don't need to flood them with content all the time for them to see, because I can't say, because they're not important to me, because I'm so grateful for every single person that's ever followed my work. You know it's, it's, it's, uh, it's. It means you know, for every creator, it means a freaking lot when you have these people who who will watch you.
Speaker 1:But you know, I just don't feel that I'm giving them any value by uh, by showing them my stuff all the time, because all I would be doing is repeating the same clips over and over again, that for them to see in a different format, with a trending reel over a trending audio over the top, and I just don't feel like that. All I'm doing is giving them more stuff to watch, to sit there and scroll through all the time. Although it's like my work and I would hope that they would like it, I don't. It's not meaningful. There's no story behind it. It might be some old clips I've put together, and I'm not saying I haven't done this because I've definitely done it.
Speaker 1:You know, when reels were booming, what like two years ago, when they first really started picking up I was recycling old videos and finding the trending audio and I was basically fueling everyone's need to sit there and scroll, whereas I just don't feel like it's wise or smart to do that using the same things.
Speaker 1:If there's something really important that I want someone to watch, or it's a new piece of work, I'll post it on Instagram. If it's some clips I'm really proud of and I've put them, together with some nice audio. I'll post it on Instagram, but I don't feel like I need to then post the same thing the next day, in a different order, with a new audio over the top of it, because I'm just fueling that endless cycle for people and it's really bad for their brain and for yours yeah, for me as well, and that's why I decided to take the break, you know and I wouldn't say it's like a break, because it's probably been about the last year now of really, you know, inconsistent posting. But I'm happy, you know, I just, if you're happy, do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's the counter argument, isn't it? But my, you know, people will say well, you know, I want to do it, and I enjoy doing it? Well, great yeah, but I want to do it and I enjoy doing it. Well, well, great yeah, but you might enjoy running dogs over with your bike. It doesn't mean that it's right. It's a good thing to do. Yeah, so you know, maybe maybe take another thought. Yeah for sure, I think we've kind of solved social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the world's problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um year look like for you. What does 2024 kind of have in store for Harry Pope?
Speaker 1:I feel like the next year is really solidifying who I am in this space. Like I've always like I was speaking about earlier I've always felt imposter syndrome. I don't feel like I've been doing it for that long where I can have a name, a big enough name, but at the same time, I'm really confident in what I can do. I I'm confident to say that I I'm not the best and I know I can. I can improve so much in so so many different aspects. But I'm like I'm ready to learn and the next year is just going to be progressing every stage of my filmmaking, never thinking I'm the best, never thinking that I'm on top, but always knowing that I am good at what I do and just trying to elevate it every step of the way until next year, hopefully.
Speaker 1:I can, you know, kind of think about the clients that I really want to work with and the bigger brands in the world and and, uh, and, needless to say, like I'm working with some amazing clients at the moment and you know the goals are already getting ticked off in March of this year. So you know I'm really grateful for that, but I've got the biggest goals. Where that people would ask me and I would say and they think I'm ridiculous, they think I'm stupid and that that's unachievable, but you know, I'm never going to achieve it if I don't think it's going to happen. So this year is really just focusing on the craft learning, taking in every little bit of you know, tips and advice from other people, networking and just making myself the best filmmaker in the fucking world. That's how I'll put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice man, yeah um well, I wish you the best of luck and obviously I'll be monitoring your progress from just the other side of the street, exactly. But um, we're going to end with a couple of questions. The one is from our previous guests, luke and Mike oh no, yeah, don't want it. Okay, I'm joking.
Speaker 1:I'm joking, it's pretty easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it actually is suitable for you because it kind of brings you into the present moment and to see you know what you think about, um, your previous accomplishments. And the question is, what is the greatest accomplishment of your life, the greatest?
Speaker 1:accomplishment is this so of my life, and I'm not specific to photography.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, yeah Just anything personal.
Speaker 1:Um, I'd say the greatest accomplishment of my life was leaving the UK and pursuing something that I was passionate about, instead of working the same job that I was doing.
Speaker 1:I was in the fitness industry in the UK and I was very bored and I pretty much hated my job.
Speaker 1:Um, so, yeah, and I've I've only got my my current girlfriend to to thank for that, because she got me out of that bubble and and told me that she was going traveling and I ended up following her and the rest is history. So, yeah, I think, yeah, leaving the UK has definitely been my biggest accomplishment, because it's hard, you know, for most people now. If I told my friends, you know, go and move to the other side of the world, go and live a little bit who are still in the UK, they think I'm crazy and that they'd never be able to do it. You know, and it was hard and we had no money at the time and you know, we were living day by day with the money we were earning from that day. But, yeah, getting through all of that and getting to the place where I'm in now, which is, you know, happy, doing what I'm doing, earning good money and living a happy, healthy life, I'd say, is my biggest accomplishment.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, I think people who haven't done it don't quite realize how big of a deal moving country is. You're literally like leaving a life behind yeah going to start a brand new one from scratch yeah, like you might have a few hundred bucks in your pocket and your mental health. Physical great, but yeah like it is a big deal, and the older you get I've done it twice. Now it's like I don't want to do it again yeah, yeah, because it's, and it takes so long to then build your life like.
Speaker 2:It takes a couple of years to really find. Yeah, so I, you know, I I talked to people back in the uk who've never done it and you know I must, and they just, they just I don't know, they haven't they can't fathom it, and they have a completely different perspective on life because of it, and that's one beauty, and that's what I love that you said is an accomplishment because it really, really is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is the third country we've lived in in the last seven years since leaving the UK. So you know having to. Like you said, you can leave the UK and then you can go I don't know, move to another country after that and then move to one more after that, but you're starting from scratch. You know, every country you move to it's not like you're already one up and it's only a little bit more to move to the next country. You're literally starting from scratch every single time you move. So, yeah, going back to the accomplishment, yeah, just being able to comfortably be on the other side of the world and have set up what we've set up and be happy is is it yeah?
Speaker 2:nice mate. Final question conversation card lucky dip. So pick card face down, hand it to me. This is new well yeah, I guess it is since you last came yeah yeah, okay, very good question. All right, this was asked. Um, actually, no, we haven't had this on on the show before, but um, take as long as you need. Oh god, what pain do you enjoy having pain?
Speaker 1:don't say jadina yeah, I know she beats me every night now, um, the pain I enjoy having is, I would say and I have to relate this back to my industry and my career and the pain that I have is knowing what my next steps are and knowing that I'm not there yet. You know, yeah, that's the only way I can describe it like if I could jump, I'd never want to say if I could jump 10 years, because people be like why do you want to skip your life? You know, live your life to the fullest. But if I could, if I could jump a year ahead and make sure that I'm in that position that I want to be in, then I would, I would do it. But I know I can't do that.
Speaker 1:So I need to just stay, stay focused and even though it pains me that I can't, it pains me that I haven't started what I wanted to do five years before. You know, it pains me that, coming out of school, I didn't want to go into film or the film industry. I would have gone to film school if I knew this was what I wanted to do coming out of school. And this, all these thoughts always give me, you know, massive anxiety and that's the pain that I live with, but I'm also happy that I've taken this path, because I'm happy that I'm here. You know, I could have stayed in the UK and never met Jed and, you know, be working a nine to five, and that's not. You know, that's not for everyone or it is for some people, but it's definitely not for me. Um, so, yeah, I think that's the only way I can answer that. It might not even answer that question properly, but yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the desire is the, the cause of yeah, suffering, yeah right, because whether you're, whatever end of the scale you're at, whether you are suffering and because you desire food, yeah, or you're suffering because you're a billionaire and you desire the next billion. Yeah, there's always something, yeah, yeah, but it's, you know, again, easier said than done. But, mate, I picked up a camera when I was 35. Yeah, you know, I, I struggle with that as well but it is what it is.
Speaker 1:What am I gonna do? Reverse time, exactly exactly. It might annoy you and you might feel that you wished you did have a camera earlier in your in your career, but it's your story, you know yeah, I did other things, yeah exactly, so I mean yeah. I'm happy, I'm healthy, that's all I care about.
Speaker 2:I hope you can try and like try and see that at some point like you know, and it's so easy. So I just you know I want to be where I want to be in five, ten years time, yeah, but you know that will go quickly and you'll look back and go fuck. Why didn't I enjoy that time when I?
Speaker 1:had it yeah, exactly so with that, let's end. Easy. Thanks so much, man.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me Appreciate dealing with more technical issues today. Always good, that's, barley. Until next time.
Speaker 1:I guess,