Hero or Dick - S3, Ep. 10 - Pee-wee Herman

The gray suit. The red bow tie. The unmistakable laugh that echoed through living rooms every Saturday morning. Paul Rubens created more than just a character in Pee-wee Herman—he built an entire world that shaped a generation.

Welcome to another episode of Hero or Dick! 

Whether you grew up singing along to the theme song (secretly performed by Cyndi Lauper!) or discovered Pee-wee through Tim Burton's cult classic film, there's no denying the lasting impact of Paul Rubens' creation. Check out our latest episode where we celebrate this complicated cultural icon who taught us that being different isn't just okay—it's something to celebrate.

Thanks for your support!

~ Kate & KJ

Transcript

Vacation Stories Begin

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to another buzzworthy podcast.

Speaker 2 0:05

It's called it's called Hero or Dead.

Speaker 1 0:07

That's what it is, season 3, episode 10. Yeah, and there's a buzz in the background which drives me nuts every time.

Speaker 2 0:15

I don't even hear it.

Speaker 1 0:16

And the listeners? I hope won't either, but that's because, with our 52 downloads last week 52? 52 downloads, that's 52? 52 downloads, that's like one a week we're going to be able to afford real equipment one day. No, no, you're right, no. But that's okay, so how's life?

Speaker 2 0:34

Oh, life is good.

Speaker 1 0:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2 0:36

I'm just coming back from vacation. I think like if you look back at all our episodes, every other one she's coming back from vacation, but that's awesome this year so far was heavy vacation Good Puerto Rico, Georgia, and then I just got back from a two-week road trip.

Speaker 1 0:54

Road trip.

Speaker 2 0:55

With my BFFs from junior high.

Speaker 1 1:01

No kidding. Yeah, yeah we had a great time. How do you keep friends that long? I'm friendly.

Speaker 2 1:05

I guess no kidding. Yeah, yeah, we had a great time. How do you keep friends?

Speaker 1 1:07

that long I'm friendly.

Speaker 2 1:08

I guess Not always. Yeah, no, but I don't know. I don't Just these three. Okay, just these three, that's your crew. I do have other people that I keep in touch with, but these three for sure.

Speaker 1 1:22

That's your core group. Mm-hmm, you want to do any shout-outs or anything for?

Speaker 2 1:25

them. No, they know who they are. They are the original four Awesome. No less, no more. So, we went and we rented a car.

Speaker 1 1:35

What kind of car?

Speaker 2 1:36

We rented a van.

Speaker 1 1:37

A van.

Speaker 2 1:37

And it was a mom van. But it was like I wish I would have had this van when my kids were young. This was the sweet ass van. It had cooling seats.

Speaker 1 1:47

Nice.

Speaker 2 1:48

And it was hot in Tennessee, it had. You know. You press a button, everything opens.

Speaker 1 1:53

Doors are automatic.

Speaker 2 1:54

Oh yeah. And then two days into it we're like oh shit, we got a sunroof, oh there you go yeah. So we had a sunroof.

Speaker 1 2:02

Did you take turns driving?

Speaker 2 2:04

We did yeah.

Speaker 1 2:06

Did you enjoy driving?

Speaker 2 2:08

For the most part. But I'm going to tell you those Tennessee mountains, they are scary to drive in. It's okay, You're on a two-lane. You're like all right if we die. We're going way down, Sure, but whatever. But we're on a two-lane highway. But when we turn to go to this beautiful home that we rented, way up in the mountains, and you turn on our road, which you can't remember the name of the road, it was like one lane for a couple miles and you twist and you turn, it gives you a little nervous.

Speaker 2 2:40

And at some points you're like I don't see the road. I'm guessing it's beyond here when you're going down, you know. And so you get to this little cul-de-sac and there's maybe like seven beautiful mountain houses. I'm sure somebody built them and rents every one of them out. It didn't seem like anybody really lived there and it was gorgeous Nice.

Speaker 1 3:07

But it kind of made me claustrophobic. The driving part.

Speaker 2 3:09

No, being up in the mountains. I'm like what if there's a wildfire? What if there's a? One day it rained really hard and I'm like we're going to get washed out what the fuck.

Speaker 1 3:20

At least you were relaxed.

Speaker 2 3:24

So yeah, we had that going on. But yeah, beth and I took turns driving One day I drove in Tennessee. It was traffic heavy, for sure, but there were so many people and we were in Gatlinburg is nothing touristy tourist traps. Like mr ripley owns that place, there was ripley's, believe it or not. Then there was a ripley's water park and there was ripley's, whatever good for ripley yeah, ripley is making some money and we were there on a sunday.

Speaker 1 3:59

What's that ripley's? Believe it or not?

Speaker 2 4:01

that's what I was calling. Yeah, I used to watch it all the time. I actually went to a ripley's believe it or not museum. Have you on the air quotes? Uh, in um niagara falls, the canadian side a lot of wax figures there uh, there were some wax figures. There was a lot of weird stuff weird stuff like can you believe this piece of Jesus 50 years old, or stuff like that. So it really wasn't for me. But it wasn't a museum per se but I did not go into the any of the Ripley's tourist places we went into.

Speaker 2 4:39

We actually got there and we timed it perfectly without trying. The Sunday afternoon there was this nice country band playing. There was a bunch of rocking chairs. We sat there for a long time and listen to these four cute little boys play songs like rocky top was it uh, but it wasn't those benjamin boone?

Speaker 1 5:00

not benjamin billy benson boone no, it was not Benson Boone. Kate's telling me about this kid. I haven't heard of him, or whatever. She showed me. He sings and flips, he flips and he wears flashy clothing.

Speaker 2 5:14

He does wear flashy clothing.

Speaker 1 5:15

He's a dapper dresser.

Speaker 2 5:17

Yes, I would say that about him too. He's a lovely boy. Check him out.

Speaker 1 5:21

He's the new David Cassidy.

Speaker 2 5:23

I don't think people even know who David Cassidy is Well, everyone knows who David Cassidy is. He's like the new kids on the block.

Speaker 1 5:31

Yeah, I don't know, I can't think of anyone else. Oh, new kids on the block. In my mind, you know, it wanders when we do this.

Speaker 2 5:38

So, anyway, we went to watch a country band. Then there was this store called the old smoky distillery. So we, and then they have, you know, a million gifts and you can do a tasting there. I was a driver so I didn't taste test, but I did buy some booze there, sure. And then they had another location that we trapped down to in the 100-degree heat and the 5 million people.

Speaker 1 6:09

It was not as enjoyable, as it sounds. Did you get any fisticuffs with anyone?

Speaker 2 6:14

Arguments about jumping on fences. No, I did not argue with anyone. Good.

Speaker 1 6:19

Proud of you. No, that was good. You were turning a new leaf this year, yeah yeah, no arguments, good job.

Speaker 2 6:23

No arguments, no problem. You were turning a new leaf this year. Yeah yeah, no arguments, good job. No arguments, no problem. Everybody was really pretty nice. And you know, I felt bad for the families who were there because, honestly, they're not having a good time. They think they're going to go there and have a good time. They're just all arguing.

Speaker 1 6:37

It's hot, kids are crying.

Speaker 2 6:39

Things are expensive they don't want to spend any more money, you know.

Speaker 1 6:45

You've got to have a staycation.

Speaker 2 6:48

Yeah, so the last day we were at the Tennessee house we did the staycation. Nice, whoa hello.

Speaker 1 6:54

Somebody doesn't like the staycation. Somebody doesn't like the staycation.

Speaker 2 6:56

We had somebody trying to talk to you yeah, especially the night before we drank, so we didn't have to go and drink that booze I didn't drink that booze, no, I drank some other booze I drank some other gin, lovely gin lovely gin it was beautiful gin. I wish I could remember the name of it was delicious big, beautiful gin well, no, nothing is big beautiful in my room. I'm sorry, um, I always got, it was the. The label was beautiful. I have flowers on.

Speaker 1 7:27

It was very botanical tasty was it botanical, because there's a botanical gin yeah, yeah, well, it's all botanical no, the brand the brand.

Speaker 2 7:34

Oh, is that? No, it wasn't that brand. No, no, it wasn't, but it was delicious nonetheless.

Speaker 1 7:41

Gin's a good song and the other day we were in.

Speaker 2 7:43

Tennessee. I did not drive this day. We took a ride through the I don't know the exact term, it's the Smoky Mountains.

Speaker 1 7:54

Isn't it the Blue Ridge, or no?

Speaker 2 7:57

Well, what we drove was called Cade's Cove Loop and it's where some people I believe the Cade family, I don't know, I'd have to check the history they settled there, and so I mean it's nowheresville and here let's just build a house and we'll farm and we'll raise some animals, and it was gorgeous.

Speaker 1 8:21

Sounds pretty fun.

Speaker 2 8:22

It was. There were some, you know, like old buildings that they had made. Yeah, us and a million other people decided to do it that day. That's fine, that's what it's for.

Speaker 1 8:33

Sure, and you knew that going into it.

Speaker 2 8:35

We knew that. Going into it, we saw a bear.

Speaker 1 8:38

In a cage? No, oh good.

Speaker 2 8:40

In the field? Mm-hmm, what In the field?

Speaker 1 8:47

What was it doing? It was rolling around in the field. A real bear, a real bear, you sure it wasn't AI generated.

Speaker 2 8:51

I'm pretty sure, okay, pretty sure. So we were amazed by that and we were not amazed by the deer, and some people are stopping to take pictures of the deer and we're like get out of the way.

Speaker 1 9:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:02

Yeah, so lots of wildlife, very beautiful state, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 9:07

So lots of wildlife Very beautiful state.

Exploring Tennessee Mountains

Speaker 2 9:09

Yes, are you going to move there? No, okay, no. Two mountainous and their mountains are compressed. Like you go out to Colorado and it's pretty wide open mountains. You know you're going up a mountain, it's a slight, it's a gradual thing. These are like no, you just go straight up.

Speaker 1 9:23

Violent mountains.

Speaker 2 9:24

Like I wouldn't want to drive there in ice or winter or anything at all At all. That's kind of skittish when it was raining.

Speaker 1 9:32

Sure.

Speaker 2 9:33

You know, there was like rivers going not rivers but small streams going across the road and it's like are we going to get swept away? We don't know.

Speaker 1 9:42

And then you have the drop-offs. Yeah, they don't know.

Speaker 2 9:44

And then you have the drop-offs. Yeah, they don't have many guardrails either.

Speaker 1 9:48

Oh, it's a way to control the population.

Speaker 2 9:50

It is I guess.

Speaker 1 9:51

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 9:53

So that was vacation.

Speaker 1 9:55

That's pretty cool. Yeah Well, while you were off dicking around, we were holding the fort down here, me and Randy.

Speaker 2 10:02

What happened in Albina. I don't know.

Speaker 1 10:03

Nothing. What did happen? You know? Here's something I tried the new smoothie place over there in the kiosk.

Speaker 2 10:11

Oh, in the kiosk? Yeah, the kiosks are open. How is that? I hear it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 10:15

What the smoothies? Yeah, yeah, they were really good A little up there, but you know you get what you pay for and it's not much different than the other places doing it Right, but the people were super nice and I had the cafe mocha banana something or another. It was really good.

Speaker 2 10:32

And what's it called again.

Speaker 1 10:33

Give them a shout out Blue Blend, blue Blend, blue Blend.

Speaker 2 10:45

B-L-U-P-I-F-E-N-D-E-L. Right on the river in Alpena downtown, by the 2nd Avenue Bridge, there are six kiosks, something like that. Six, I think, little buildings, and there are six different. They're kind of they're way different. They're not all food.

Speaker 1 10:54

I showed out to all of them, but I only went in two. The other one was like it had pet stuff in it. Oh, and I bought some carpet deodorizer.

Speaker 2 11:01

Okay.

Speaker 1 11:05

Which is homemade, which you can make yourself. But it came in a really cool jar and, oh, I bought the ladies, my daughter and my wife. I bought them some earrings. They had their cat earrings.

Speaker 2 11:14

Oh, at the pet place Yep.

Speaker 1 11:17

Not for pets, for humans that. But it is a pet place. I mean they have everything in there. I shouldn't say it. They have soaps.

Speaker 2 11:22

But pet related maybe.

Speaker 1 11:24

I'm waiting for the Kenobi's one to open.

Speaker 2 11:26

Yeah, it's coming soon, I hear Look out America.

Speaker 1 11:29

We're going to eat some donuts.

Speaker 2 11:30

Oh, do you think they'll have donuts there, or will they just have healthy stuff like apples?

Speaker 1 11:34

What that would be horrible, that would be a bad idea. I mean, the apples are delicious. You should make a couple of wood fire kitchens.

Speaker 2 11:43

Yeah, a lot of stuff, yeah.

Speaker 1 11:46

Donuts.

Speaker 2 11:47

Great gift shop.

Speaker 1 11:48

Yeah, they do they. Do you ever eat the crickets? I have not Get a bag of crickets.

Speaker 2 11:53

I have not Go for the donuts. I guess we're here for we do have a topic today, and it's not vacation. I want to just mention too. I went to Kentucky, and Kentucky is a beautiful state too, but you know what they have in Kentucky right now Cicadas Two hatchings, because they hatch every 17 years, and two different. You know, there's like I don't know, there's like the striped one, the bloods and the crypts.

Speaker 2 12:21

Yeah, exactly so two hatchings are happening at the same time and there were times you got out of the car you couldn't even hear yourself because there were so many damn cicadas and they don't bite, but they're big like a grasshopper and they dive, bomb you.

Speaker 1 12:38

That wasn't cool. Were you running around like it was? Yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 12:41

Yeah, yeah. And at first we were driving, we kind of took the back roads, which was really fun, and I said what's that noise? I rolled down my window, I go oh my God, I hope it's not the car, because it was so intense. There was millions of them, wow yeah. So it was kind of scary.

Speaker 1 12:59

All these moments, but Kentucky is a cool place.

Speaker 2 13:05

Yeah yeah, you like the South, I do like the South. We met a lovely gentleman in Kentucky no, charlie.

Speaker 1 13:11

Oh Charlie.

Speaker 2 13:11

Charlie. We were at a Family Dollar at 8 o'clock in the morning waiting for him to open.

Speaker 1 13:17

What were you getting?

Speaker 2 13:18

We needed some laundry soap. Oh, we were on our way to the airport to pick up the friends and um so we met Charlie who had a sign on on the side of his SUV that said something about delicious honey. And I'm like do you have any of that delicious honey on you? And he said, well, yes, I do. And so he opened the back of his SUV and shoved you in it.

Speaker 2 13:42

He couldn't. He was eating something Um he had. He was on his way to the farmer's market and he had delicious honey that we tasted and I bought some, and I bought some lip stuff off of him and then he said wait a minute, wait a minute. And he got out this boom box and he put on two blue honey and serenaded us Are you kidding me right now. I am not, and I loved it. Thank you, charlie, that's pretty cool. You're a big hero. I loved it.

Speaker 1 14:09

Thank you, charlie, that's pretty cool, you're a big hero, you don't even live a real life. What is this? People don't have these experiences.

Speaker 2 14:14

You do if you take the back roads. I guess, yeah, if you, this is what Beth said, and it's so true. If we were on 75, that would not have happened. No, highway 75.

Speaker 2 14:23

Yeah yeah, that would not have happened. I know where we were. We were somewhere in kentucky. I have his card, though, but a dollar general. A dollar general, he was stopping to buy a smiley balloon to put up for him for the. Um, how cool is that? Yeah, it was great, huh. Yeah, the honey is fucking delicious. Yeah, it's not just delicious, it's really good effing delicious yes, and I love he's saying, along with Beth serenading him to blow honey. I have pictures of it but no video. I wasn't quick enough on the video.

Speaker 1 15:01

This is why we got to get the website up, so you can, you know.

Alpena's New Kiosks

Speaker 2 15:06

Okay, so what is our topic today? Here we're 10 minutes in what the hell Paul Rubens.

Speaker 1 15:13

Yeah, if anybody knows who that is.

Speaker 2 15:16

He also has a character that he plays, called Pee Wee Herman.

Speaker 1 15:21

I thought it was Pee Wee, pee, wee, pee, wee Herman.

Speaker 2 15:24

Oh, pee, wee, Pee, wee.

Speaker 1 15:26

All right, yeah, he was actually born, paul Rubenfeld. Oh, I didn't know that August 27, 1952 in Peekskill, new York, that I knew, yeah, jewish parents.

Speaker 2 15:37

Yep, and he just well. He died a couple of years ago, in July of 23. Yeah, he was 70 years old.

Speaker 1 15:46

Yeah, that's pretty good. No, not that good. He died of lung cancer or something right.

Speaker 2 15:50

He got cancer of some kind.

Speaker 1 15:53

His parents owned a lamp store.

Speaker 2 15:56

I find that fascinating. They owned a lamp store, but they also had other things they did.

Speaker 1 16:02

Sure yeah, but that's the coolest part.

Speaker 2 16:05

That is cool. I wonder if he worked in the lamp store.

Speaker 1 16:11

I can't do a prompt. I can only do if in the lamp store. Oh, probably I can't do a prompt.

Speaker 2 16:13

I can only do if no one's listening Okay.

Speaker 1 16:16

No one's listening, no one's listening. You know what his favorite childhood thing was?

Speaker 2 16:23

The circus Yep, mm-hmm, because he lived in Sarasota.

Speaker 1 16:27

Yep.

Speaker 2 16:28

And went to the Ringling Brothers Barnum Bailey Circus Museum. Well, that was a winter headquarters then, so he was a frequent visitor. And then he became involved in theater groups and he applied like to Juilliard and some other school and no got rejected.

Speaker 1 16:49

I thought he got. He studied at Boston University and then Cal Arts, but he didn't get into the acting schools or art school Right.

Speaker 2 16:56

Juilliard and there was another acting school. So when he went to California Institute of Arts, I thought this was interesting. Some of his classmates were Katie Seagal.

Speaker 1 17:07

Who's that?

Speaker 2 17:08

You know who she is. She's Peg Bundy. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry, but she's also the matriarch on sons of anarchy. She's on um. She does what cartoon voices. Uh, futurama. She's on futurama, the voice, she does everything she's incredible, she is forgot, I forgot her Katie Seagal, michael Richards, who was Kramer on Seinfeld, and you know who his roommate was.

Speaker 1 17:35

No.

Speaker 2 17:36

David Hasselhoff. Come on, it's true.

Speaker 1 17:39

Oh shit, it's true, that's quite the pairing Knight Rider and Pee Wee Herman. I know what the flip. I love that.

Speaker 2 17:48

Oh man, if they could have made a mash that together, wow, I'd watch it.

Paul Rubens/Pee-wee Herman Discussion

Speaker 1 17:53

He created his Pee Wee Herman character in the Groundlings improv group. Right, he was in there with Phil Hartman.

Speaker 2 18:00

Phil Hartman. Yeah, and he and Phil Hartman became friends and then they kind of had a falling out because Phil said he wrote more than he got credit or he did more on Pee-wee's show than he got credit for.

Speaker 1 18:16

Well, it was called.

Speaker 2 18:17

Pee-wee's Later. Paul Ruhm was like well, you know sorry.

Speaker 1 18:21

Yeah, it was called Pee-wee's.

Speaker 2 18:22

Yeah, it wasn't called Phil's you know the other thing that he did before Pee-wee's show that Paul did was so he graduated in 73, worked at a restaurant, worked as a fuller brushman. A what Fuller brushman? So you go door to door selling fuller brushes. What's a fuller brush? I don't know.

Speaker 1 18:44

I never bought one, but I imagine there's. So he went door to door selling them.

Speaker 2 18:45

He was a door to door salesman, door salesman and in 1977, he made 14 guest appearances on the gong show Really 14. So it's kind of like a regular job too, I love the gong show. That's a whole other topic.

Speaker 1 19:04

It is.

Speaker 2 19:05

Okay.

Speaker 1 19:05

That's a topic. Old game shows. Oh easy peasy.

Speaker 2 19:15

I'll shut up. And then in in 1980 he did get a small part on the blues brothers movie as a waiter. Um, okay, and so then what did he do?

Speaker 1 19:27

well, I think then we get to the hbo peewee herman show right in 1981 right.

Speaker 2 19:33

So it started out as a nightclub show or an evening. It was a bit raunchier, but it was the same kind of premise the peewee's playhouse but it was for adults oh boy and then I don't know who saw it if you can tone this down a little bit, we'll put it on the air. I think in interviews he's still surprised that that really happened. But once it did happen, all in all in, and it aired from 86 to 90 on Saturday mornings on CBS. We were loyal, loyal fans, cassidy and I.

Speaker 2 20:14

Still are, but we would watch it every Saturday morning.

Speaker 1 20:19

You're what helped.

Speaker 2 20:20

Muppet Babies Garfield Pee Wee's Playhouse.

Speaker 1 20:22

You're what helped him win 15 Emmys.

Speaker 2 20:25

That's a lot. That's a lot, yeah, and he also started many careers, because a lot of people Say it, say it, say it.

Speaker 1 20:33

What you know who? Oh who, Cowboy Curtis.

Speaker 2 20:37

I love Cowboy Curtis. I loved him on that show.

Speaker 1 20:40

I still love him, aka Morpheus.

Speaker 2 20:41

Lawrence Fishborn, fishborn, fishborn.

Speaker 1 20:45

M2.

Speaker 2 20:55

Hermit Hattie was played by edie mcclure. You know her. She's a great character actress. She has the best line in planes, trains and automobiles. When he's around that car, here she goes. You're fucked. We were just talking about the other day.

Speaker 1 21:05

Oh god, uh, um s apathia Merkinson. Are you making stuff up now?

Speaker 2 21:12

Which you might not recognize her name, but you would recognize her face. She's a law and order. She's like the heavy boss.

Speaker 1 21:18

Never watched that episode.

Speaker 2 21:20

Well, I've watched some, but even without even trying you would recognize her. She's been in a bunch of movies. She was Reba the male lady. Captain Carl was Phil Hartman. Opal the little girl. There were three little kids and a little curly-haired hippie girl whose name was Opal. On the show was Natasha Lyonne.

Speaker 1 21:44

No kidding.

Speaker 2 21:44

Who is on Poker Face? Russian Doll. She was on. Orange is the New Black.

Speaker 1 21:49

That Russian Doll was pretty good. I loved that. It got really it got kind of weird. No more of that show Stagnant. No, it's not on anymore but it was great Never watched. Orange is the New Black.

Speaker 2 21:59

Oh my gosh, how are you even living?

Speaker 1 22:01

I don't know.

Speaker 2 22:02

It's a really good show.

Speaker 1 22:04

My wife watched it.

Pee-wee's Playhouse Legacy

Speaker 2 22:11

Did Religiously, I think it started out, you know, following one person and that was the premise. That kind of got you sucked in as, like, a white suburbia girl has to go to jail. But then once you got in there and met everybody else and then they gave the backstory of everybody, it was fascinating. That's the best part of that show. So yeah, she was on there. I'm sure there's a few more that I'm forgetting. But then from that show in 1985, well, in 1985, 86, came his first movie, pee Wee's Big Adventure. 1985-86 came his first movie, pee-wee's Big Adventure, which is about his bike is stolen and he has many adventures and meets many friends on his way to find it. It was directed by Tim Burton, who is.

Speaker 1 23:05

You know you might recognize his name. They seem like a marriage made in heaven, those two.

Speaker 2 23:11

Oh my gosh, and that movie. I can still watch it and still laugh, even though I know exactly what's gonna happen. It still cracks me up, it's, it's, it's a classic. I'd say it's one of my top five favorite movies. Yeah, for to take on a desert island, I would definitely take that because it makes me laugh every time. Every time he's dancing on the um, on the uh biker bar, bar top tequila, I'm trying to use the phone, okay, so um. And also when he talks to his dog all right spack, all right spack. He's on the phone with the dog.

Speaker 1 23:50

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 23:51

Dogs know, dogs know. Yeah, so yeah. And then Tim Burton did also direct his next movie, which was Pee-wee's Big Tap about circus folk. A little darker than the first one, so good Not great like the first one, but it's still pretty good, yeah. So now we got to talk to.

Speaker 2 24:16

Oh, one thing also I wanted to mention when he was first starting out, he failed an snl audition no kidding and he said it was uh, that year, maybe even the same day, he, he and gilbert godfrey were trying out at the same time and he's like oh we're too similar. And he said I knew Gilbert was going to get it and he did, yeah, so, but you know it worked out for him in the end.

Speaker 1 24:43

I think what was cool that I remember anyway which isn't a lot about his Saturday show there like all inclusiveness it was like one of the first times I think as a kid I was introduced to like accepting everything at everybody not everything. You know what I mean. But, like all inclusivity, diversity, you know all the characters were different.

Speaker 2 25:06

Weird stuff and it was okay. Yeah, he actually married one time, so why don't you marry it if you love it? So much I will. Uh, god's name from peewee came from a one inch harmonica that he owned. It was called the peewee. And then herman came from. Uh, he had a friend who had that last name and and he took that from him.

Speaker 1 25:32

That's where he got the voice too right From some kids that he grew up with. They used to laugh like that, and so he incorporated that to his character. Yeah, I didn't know if it was Herman, but it was.

Speaker 2 25:44

Oh, and then what happened? I don't know?

Speaker 1 25:48

Well, yeah, he was jerking off in a theater, an adult theater. He was.

Speaker 2 25:54

That does make a difference? I think it does. What do you think people do in an adult theater?

Speaker 1 25:59

I've never been in one.

Speaker 2 26:00

I have not either, but I'm assuming that they're either jerking off or having sex.

Speaker 1 26:04

Something's going on there.

Speaker 2 26:05

It's an adult theater.

Speaker 1 26:07

You don't just go for the story story no, you're not going there to eat popcorn I hope not. That's not butter folks, um, but yeah, that kind of mess things up I think he got ripped off. Well, he was so peewee, herman, that he couldn't be paul rubin sure, and he never was paul rubin in interviews, he was always peewee, herman peewee.

Speaker 1 26:29

He was in that character and so, yeah, a little bit of that is he needs to own it, but well, I think it ties into he was trying to also I mean, this didn't work but the, the lifestyle he was living for so long he had to suppress the fact that he was gay. Right, and that was not cool because he couldn't be himself. You know, here he is embracing it and letting people know, teaching the golden rule on the show.

Speaker 2 26:54

Yeah, and that diversity is cool. Everybody should accept everything, or most everything. And then he couldn't even be himself.

Speaker 1 27:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 27:03

Yeah, and so because of that he lost his TV show and a lot of other commitments. I don't even think he ever got charged with anything.

Speaker 1 27:13

If he didn't charge.

Speaker 2 27:15

he had a very light sentence, so that was in 1991. And then he kind of had to just hang out. He couldn't do anything because he couldn't get a job. But then he came back hard. In 1999, I remember this. He was at the MTV Music Awards. Nobody knew he was coming and he walked out and people went they just you know stood up.

Speaker 1 27:43

Did he say I'm back or something like that?

Speaker 2 27:45

No, he said better, better. When the crowd kind of calmed down, he said heard any good jokes? Oh, that's what it was, because there were so many jokes about Pee Wee so good for him that he took it back. He took it back and then ultimately he was in movies and TV shows. He was in the movie Mystery Men Blow, which Johnny Depp was in. He was in the movie Matilda.

Speaker 1 28:11

Yeah, he did voice acting for Batman. I think it was right, or was he? I don't remember, but Nightmare Before Christmas.

The Controversies and Comeback

Speaker 2 28:16

Yeah, yeah, acting for Batman, I think it was right, or was he? I don't remember. But Nightmare Before Christmas, yeah, and TV shows. He was in 30 Rock.

Speaker 1 28:22

Portlandia, the Blacklist, then Reno 911.

Speaker 2 28:25

Didn't he?

Speaker 1 28:25

do, Didn't he do? Did you already say it? The big holiday movie 2016. Pee-wee's Big Holiday.

Speaker 2 28:31

Oh, no, yeah, he did do that they used digital effects to keep his youthful appearance. Yes, yeah because he did age like normal people.

Speaker 1 28:41

We don't age.

Speaker 2 28:45

Although if you have any inkling or any minor interest in Paul Rubin, you should watch the new documentary. It's called Pee Wee as Himself, and it's on Max, did you?

Speaker 1 28:58

see it. Yeah, wait, did you tell me about this already?

Speaker 2 29:00

Probably. I think, that's how we came to the subject. It was really good and he.

Speaker 1 29:08

Well, he left all that on purpose.

Speaker 2 29:10

He did yeah.

Speaker 1 29:11

So that they could do the show and talked about, about his sexuality, the shame he had about certain things, and then he denied the wrongdoings that he supposedly did right, because then his other scandal was um, and he talks about this in the documentary was, he had gay porn he had a vintage gay, not even porn. Erotica.

Speaker 2 29:36

Vintage gay stuff. He had a lot of collections of really cool shit. When they show in the documentary he's just got some cool shit, not just erotica, it was like figurines. He just had really really cool shit. But in one of his groupings that he collected was vintage gay no, not pornography erotica, and so because it's vintage too, it wasn't pornographic really. But one thing he had was a picture of a young boy who could have been under 18. Well, it didn't even show any private parts. Who could have been under 18, but didn't even show any private parts. But because he had that, the police, there was a really progressive or pushy prosecutor who wanted to make a name for himself and they chose to dwell on that. They pushed charges against him and he did. Uh, I think he again got community time or something, something very minor in the end. You know it wasn't worth all the hassle and the defamation.

Speaker 2 30:48

he should have sued him for that sure he should have and he always felt, uh, that the controversies, that the controversies overshadowed his creative work, and it probably did. I choose to ignore them. He emphasized that it's painful to be unfairly labeled and judged, and where there's this is here's a direct quote where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. So yeah, watch the documentary, though. Anything more do you have to say about him?

Speaker 1 31:23

no, I think I need to watch that documentary you do what's it on, I think it's something max, whatever they're calling that yeah, I don't know. I just yeah. I tried not to focus on that too much. It was easy to find negative stuff like that, but I mean he was involved in Make-A-Wish Foundation and did a lot of charity work for kids.

Speaker 2 31:44

He did a lot of good stuff and I think too, his show that was on Saturday mornings. How would kids who are living in you know Nebraska ever know anything other than you know one-minded? Yeah, I don't know Nebraska, sorry Nebraska, but you know, just as an example. Sure Just somebody who lives in a world where they don't get exposed to that diversity. And then they got wow, there's all this diversity, you know.

Speaker 1 32:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:16

Yeah.

Speaker 1 32:17

He's probably a better role model than some other people right now these times.

Speaker 2 32:21

Oh my gosh absolutely, and I don't think it's going to come as any shocking revelation when I say that he's a big hero in my book.

Celebrating Pee-wee's Characters

Speaker 1 32:33

He's flawed, definitely, but yeah, he's more of a hero than he's a dick. I don't think he's flawed to death, definitely, but he's yeah, he's more of a hero than he's a dick.

Speaker 2 32:39

I don't think he's flawed. So big hero, big hero Pee-wee.

Speaker 1 32:46

Big hero Pee-wee Now for Fast Five. We talked about Miss.

Speaker 2 32:50

Yvonne. That could be the next documentary who we talked about, miss Yvonne. She was on. You don't know who, miss yvonne, she was on. You don't know when miss yvonne is. She was the most beautiful woman in playland girl, I think they said the most beautiful girl in playland. She had big hair, got it, got it okay. So when we talked about her, maybe we didn't. Uh, captain, carl, we talked about ph, phil Hartman and Cowboy Curtis, my favorite Cowboy Curtis story, and Cass. You know I'm going to tell it Because one time Pee Wee was having a sleepover.

Speaker 1 33:24

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 33:25

And Cowboy Curtis didn't know if he could spend the night, and they're like well, you got to spend the night, Cowboy, and he's like but I sleep in the nude.

Speaker 1 33:33

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 33:36

Okay, so they nude, oh my god, oh okay, so they work something out. I think he wore somebody's shorts or something, I can't remember. Yeah, how it got resolved, I don't know, but he sleeps in the nude, yeah, and so, okay, nebraska children, and they're like, wow, people sleep in the nude, yeah. So here's some other characters. Here's some other characters from peewee, other characters from Pee-wee's Playhouse, and you know, I think they're all heroes. Well, maybe not, maybe not. How about Jambi?

Speaker 1 34:05

Hero.

Speaker 2 34:05

Mecha-leka-hi, mecha-hi-noo.

Speaker 1 34:07

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:08

How about King of Cartoons? Of course, oh my God, such a hero Cool guy. How about Randy the Puppet, cool guy. How about?

Speaker 1 34:15

Randy the puppet yes, he's kind of a dick, yeah, but you know, but they used him as the example Inspiration for comic the insult dog. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 34:26

He kind of is like that. And then how about Cherry?

Speaker 1 34:31

Oh, come on. I know who doesn't want a hug from a chair.

Speaker 2 34:34

I know and he was always so friendly here here.

Speaker 1 34:37

Wait, was it a he?

Speaker 2 34:38

Too friendly? Was it a he? I don't know.

Speaker 1 34:41

Maybe it was a them, that's fine.

Speaker 2 34:44

And how about Penny? Yeah yeah, penny, the cartoon girl. And one more fact about it they're all heroes in my book. Who sang the do-do-do-do-do the, come on in, grab yourself a bunch. What Cyndi Lauper she did. She did Go back and listen to it. It's obvious that she sang it, but I never thought of it.

Speaker 1 35:12

I like Cyndi Lauper.

Speaker 2 35:14

She's doing her final tour, you going.

Speaker 1 35:16

She's of the era I like.

Speaker 2 35:17

Cyndi Lauper. She's doing her final tour. You going. She's of the era. I would, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 35:22

I see your true colors shining through.

Speaker 2 35:26

Oh, they're shining through.

Speaker 1 35:27

Whatever?

Speaker 2 35:28

Girls just want to have fun.

Speaker 1 35:30

They do, don't they?

Speaker 2 35:31

They do. Alright, we've had enough fun.

Speaker 1 35:34

Yeah, mr Hero, all those fivers, they're their heroes too.

Speaker 2 35:38

Heroes, heroes, heroes.

Speaker 1 35:40

Makes you think back to being a kid.

Speaker 2 35:44

I miss you. I miss you Peewee, peewee, the end.

Speaker 1 35:48

All right, Thanks everybody.