Hero or Dick

Hero or Dick - S4., Ep. 2 - The Vanderbilts

• Kate & KJ • Season 4 • Episode 2

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0:00 | 41:46

It starts with a borrowed $100, a stubborn teenager, and a ferry that never slept. From there, the Vanderbilt story runs fast—from Cornelius Vanderbilt’s ruthless rise through ferries, steamships, and railroads to the cultural institutions and monuments the family later built to soften the edges.

We end where the money thins and the question sharpens: can libraries, opera houses, and grand estates ever balance out the damage done on the way up? Hero or Dick? The answer isn’t clean—and that tension may be the real legacy.

Thanks, as always for listening!

~ Kate & KJ

SPEAKER_01:

There you go.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Hi, greetings. Now can we can hear each other? It's very odd. We always have technical difficulties.

SPEAKER_02:

We always have a technical because we are techie. No, we always the technical. The big battery. Battery. A D battery. Oh, a nine volt.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the ones you stick your tongue on and remember?

SPEAKER_02:

I do not recall that.

SPEAKER_01:

What? You didn't do that as a kid?

SPEAKER_02:

I didn't, no. But that explains a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Kate was talking so far about shoveling.

SPEAKER_02:

I hate it.

SPEAKER_01:

What else was there?

SPEAKER_02:

I wanted to just say welcome to heroes.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, road travels. Traveling together.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Depends on who you travel with.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Can be delightful.

SPEAKER_01:

Can be She's not going to rent an RV.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I'm not renting an RV. I don't want to drive an RV.

SPEAKER_01:

I do. Not a big one. I want a van one.

SPEAKER_02:

Drive one and then talk to me. Do you think it's easier driving those smaller ones? Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01:

It'll be easier to park them. Dude, they're only 17 feet long.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm telling you. Drive one and then talk to me. Okay. Welcome to season four, episode two of Hero or Dick, where we talk about many things. I don't think sometimes the topic, sometimes not.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I don't like talking about the topic. No, you like taking it off top. I do like, I don't think we're ever gonna top. I made my own coffee today.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, good job.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh with my new espresso machine I told you about. It's got a little shot of coffee in here, but I mixed it with DCAF.

SPEAKER_02:

Fancy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But anyway, uh the last episode was I like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, something happened. Stop.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's still recording down here. I don't know. Do we just use the phone now? Well, we'll go. We'll go. We uh phones come and go. Come do pretty good there. I'll have to do some fancy stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

So we don't have a calling guest today, so we don't need that.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

And thank you for calling guests last week. She should host the show. We should just hand it over to her. Well to Harley.

SPEAKER_01:

You've been trying to get out of it for a while now.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. Thank you again, Harley. You did a great job. You did such a good job that we're gonna hand over the reins to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Heroic hosted by Harley.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The 33-year-old emo aka, just normal genius.

SPEAKER_02:

She's a normal genius.

SPEAKER_01:

A normal genius.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

A normal genius.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I sure hope this works, Kate. But I hope so too.

SPEAKER_02:

We'll have to play it back.

SPEAKER_01:

So this is Heroic. I think we said that. We still broadcast from Alpina, Michigan.

SPEAKER_02:

We do, where it's very cold today.

SPEAKER_01:

One, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Something like that. I said ten in my car.

SPEAKER_01:

Why is everybody whining? What did you just say earlier? You don't want to shovel because it's too cold?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I just don't want to shovel.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't care what the temperature is. I was gonna tell you, I can still blow that too, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_01:

For fun. I like doing it.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

It makes me happy still blowing.

SPEAKER_02:

If you really wanted to, you can build it. We splow it and shovel it, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. So we're talking about today.

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Our topic is the Vanderbilts. The Vanderbilts.

SPEAKER_01:

That's it. That's it. Anderson Cooper's family.

SPEAKER_02:

It is Anderson Cooper's family.

SPEAKER_01:

He's probably the best Vanderbilt there is.

SPEAKER_02:

He could be. He could be. He's up there. Yeah. Sorry. They are um huh. Well, let's talk about them. So I started with the family tree of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

SPEAKER_01:

The Commodore.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the Commodore is the one.

SPEAKER_01:

He was probably the best one of the books.

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There was Vanderbilt's before them, but they were, he was the one who really built the empire.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

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He was born in 1794, died in 1877.

SPEAKER_00:

What is that?

SPEAKER_02:

It's a long time. 70, you know, it's 81 years, 80-ish years. And you know what I thought uh I saw one of his um things said cause of death, fatigue. Oh, just tired. Yeah, I'm there, man.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, they say that when people, older people get to, you know, close to it, they just say, I'm just tired.

SPEAKER_02:

Just done. Yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01:

Sign me out. Nothing. Yeah. Anyway, so at 16 is when he started, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And he borrowed a hundred bucks to buy a ferry boat. And he ran on it, he slept on it.

SPEAKER_02:

And he ferried people and freight between Staten Island and New York City. And that was pretty genius of him.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, what I thought was genius is that he basically destroyed the competition by not charging. Well, and he charged for food and drinks and stuff on board, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. So he wiped, he was uh, and this is a business model that a lot of people use. He uh catered to the business in that he didn't charge much while he had competition, and then when he didn't have competition, he could charge whatever he wanted.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

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So that's what he did.

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A very shrewd businessman.

SPEAKER_02:

Or dick.

SPEAKER_01:

But he did have more. Didn't he have more philanthropy than the folks that came after him? Or no?

SPEAKER_02:

No, he did not. He didn't? He did not. We'll get into it, but the his uh generations that he produced were much more philanthropic. Is that a word? Philanthropic. I like it.

SPEAKER_00:

Philanthropic?

SPEAKER_02:

Philanthropic? Than him, than Cornelius. He was he was tight with his money, lived frugally or modestly for you know a I I know he was at least a millionaire. I don't know if he was a billionaire.

SPEAKER_01:

I thought he died with like a hundred million dollars, which would be three billion today.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

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And after, you know, so much, do you how how much do you need?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh give me a million bucks.

SPEAKER_02:

A million? That's not enough for me.

SPEAKER_01:

I would have to keep working.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, oh, I don't want to work. I don't want to shuffle either. So Cornelius Cornelius, aka the Commodore. Why'd they call him the Commodore?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't either.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh-oh. Because he liked the band the Commodores. Oh, wait, that's reverse.

SPEAKER_02:

No, wouldn't that be like Captain or a Yeah, I guess because that means you're you're well-term for the boss.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Then he branched into rail service. Then he started getting the cash. He offered the first um transportation between NYC and Chicago. Oh. And people needed to get from Chicago to NYC and they wanted to take a train in that era because that's how you did it. In 1813, he married his first cousin. Come on. They did it. Why did they do that? That's probably good advice. Well, probably.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe that's what happened with these kids generations after.

SPEAKER_02:

Sophia Johnson was his first cousin. Not only that, he had 13 kids, 11 survived to adulthood, which is a pretty good ratio. But then, like now, the richer you are, the more apt your children will survive childhood. And you will survive having them.

SPEAKER_01:

And he lived a long time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It has to do with his wife more, probably.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure.

SPEAKER_02:

He was, um, by all almost all accounts I read, terrible husband and father, ignored his daughters. They were just, you know, yeah baggage. Uh I wrote, they were something, but I can't read it. And uh he did commit his son, Cornelius Jeremiah, to the lunatic asylum twice. As well as Sophia. When he took a shine to the governess, he had Sophia, his wife, committed to the lunatic asylum, which was his that's what you do.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's like if you're not loyal, you don't agree.

SPEAKER_02:

And the husband could do that then. Up till pretty recent years, actually. But that's another topic.

SPEAKER_01:

Um he didn't like unions.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

He uh views them, he viewed them as organized theft, labor and theft. He thought that you know, basically it's bad stuff. He refused to negotiate and he blacklisted people. Wait a second, this is sound pretty familiar. Um paid off legislators.

SPEAKER_02:

Who are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh God. But uh he controlled enough rail traffic that the entire regions were hostage to his pricing, like they were talking about.

SPEAKER_02:

He had the monopoly monopoly. Yeah, and then in 1817, new technology of steamship.

SPEAKER_01:

What about it? Well, you got into that too.

SPEAKER_02:

Cornelius partnered with Thomas Gibbons.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, good old time.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, Tom.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

He in the steamship business, and they built a shipping Mecca. They were like and also tromped out all competitors and sometimes co-owners. And let me tell you how Thomas Gibbons passed away, and his son wanted to uh take over his dad's part, and and Cornelius didn't want him there, right? He basically pushed him out. Yeah, he wouldn't sell to him, and then uh um it wasn't pretty, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

And um he pushed him out. He I was wrong, of course. I am usually when I'm talking here, but he um thought that charity was actually a weakness, uh, yes, and that poverty was failure, well, and suffering was corrective.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and I think he did come from um a poor family, so I I think I bought it. You know, look what I did. Everybody can do that. Well, not everybody can do that.

SPEAKER_01:

And do you think the reason he thought that was he did it, he pulled it off, and so he thought, I'm not gonna help people, do it yourself.

SPEAKER_02:

Don't mistake my kindness for weakness, is the famous quote.

SPEAKER_01:

What he said that no, I've said that. That's one of your favorite quotes.

SPEAKER_02:

My mom turned me out of my quote, and she's right. You know, I'll help you out, but don't think I'm going to for the rest of your life or whatever. Uh he did. Here's the the only charity that I found was he did donate the largest ship called the Vanderbilt in his fleet to the Union Army during the Civil War. He probably took it back though after the Civil War.

SPEAKER_01:

Probably. Maybe not to the Union, though.

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe not. Then his uh first wife died, and he married his second wife, and her I thought this was interesting. It has nothing to do with the Vanderbilts. Her name was Frank Armstrong because it's like he married Frank Armstrong. I'm like, whoa, she's so progressive. No, she was her parents promised to name her after a family friend. They promised to name their firstborn after a family friend, and then her name's name was Frank. So it didn't matter. You can't call her Frankie or Frances or you don't hear Frank.

SPEAKER_01:

Nobody names their kid Frank anymore, do they? Frank? Frank.

SPEAKER_02:

I haven't seen a baby Frank in a long time.

SPEAKER_01:

Baby Frank? Baby Frank. That's what they put.

SPEAKER_02:

By the way, Frankenstein. Oh, maybe that's the kids. Oh, baby Frank. Yeah, those are good things.

SPEAKER_01:

Anyhow.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, so she married him though, Frank Armstrong.

SPEAKER_01:

She wasn't a cousin, was she?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh no, she wasn't. But he got past the past that. I don't know. I think they had any kids together, though. Oh. Uh in 1871, here's his other charity. He financed a monument to his empire called the Grand Central Depot. An NYC. Yeah. He lived modestly, but his what did he do you know what he liked to buy? What was his guilty pleasure?

SPEAKER_01:

He wasn't the Castle guy, was he?

SPEAKER_02:

No, that's George.

SPEAKER_01:

He's coming up.

SPEAKER_02:

He he liked to buy race horses.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of his kids was afflicted with that as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Or not kids, grandkids.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh kids or grandkids. He did also did give a million dollars to start up Vanderbilt University.

SPEAKER_01:

Vandy?

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And it's still going.

SPEAKER_01:

So Tennessee.

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North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

I'll Google it while you keep talking.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't have anything to talk about. I'm looking forward to getting to the Cornelius.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh died in 1877, had about 90 million or 100 million in the bank.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_02:

So he gave most of it to his son William Henry, who worked in the business.

SPEAKER_01:

So he knew almost all of it. One guy only got a half million bucks, right? Something like that. Not even.

SPEAKER_02:

200k trust fund to Cornelius Jeremiah, who's in the silent asylum. So you know. Um wife and daughters, they got between, depending on who you were, you got 200 to 500k, but they did get property in stock. But they I mean the guy had 90 million. Can you give them all a million dollars? No, no, I can't do that. What was that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, Grand Central. Grand Central, you're looking at Vanderbilt University.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01:

We gotta get that. Well, who was that kid's name that was here that used to help us with this stuff?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know, but we need well we were gonna hire uh University. Harley, right? Oh my gosh, I would love that. We can't afford her. That's true, we can't. Unless she volunteers.

SPEAKER_01:

We need an intern.

SPEAKER_02:

It's in Tennessee. Nashville, Tennessee. I was right. Oh yeah. You can't stop me, Kate. I can, but I won't. I know. Yeah, founded in 1873. So you know, but why did have some legacy? I think he just did that to like a million dollars, got my name on it. Oh, again. Why does that sound familiar?

SPEAKER_01:

Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02:

I guess it's called Tennessee, because that's where uh George eventually went. Maybe oh Tennessee. So he was there before maybe that was I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not gonna Google that. You gotta Google that one yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't want to touch the phone, screw it.

SPEAKER_02:

So money didn't get him or his family accepted into any society.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it was new money, it was new money. Isn't that weird? Like the richo prickos there. If it's not like old money, you were like trash. That's fucking weird, man.

SPEAKER_02:

That's not weird. That's how it's always been. But that makes no sense. It doesn't. I can say it made sense.

SPEAKER_01:

Because it was new money at one time. Well, now it's old money. What is Vanderbilt money? I know, but the people that wouldn't let them in because they were new money, they came from old money, but it was new money at some time. At some point. At some point, we're all immigrants, too. And doesn't old money mean you may not have to work as much for it? Yeah. As new money? Yeah. What a this whole thing, I don't like it. This made me hate billionaires and millionaires and fucking capitalism. I not hate it, but come on, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and then you kind of um you have to wonder, okay, so now you get to Cornelius's kids and grandkids. They're born into it. So is it their fault that they're born into money?

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

And so it's how they handle it though. Right. And and they handled it better than him. I think every generation has gotten a little more generous with it.

SPEAKER_01:

And um I'm not knocking all billionaires and millionaires, by the way.

SPEAKER_02:

Cornelius was capitalism.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't want to get in trouble. I can't say what's on my mind.

SPEAKER_02:

I say you can say whatever you want. Nobody's listening.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true.

SPEAKER_02:

Um I'm listening, but so William Henry Vanderbilt was um his son, who received most of his money because he worked with him.

SPEAKER_01:

He doubled the money.

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He did, he did a good job. He expanded the family railroad empire, was an active philanthropist who gave to the YMCA.

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YMCA.

SPEAKER_02:

I was waiting to see if you'd sing. Columbia, do you have a song for that? No. Oh. And the Metropolitan Opera, which he and other New York City new money people set up to compete with the New York Academy of Music because they were socially excluded from that. So they're like, screw you, we'll just start our own.

SPEAKER_01:

I like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Met the Met.

SPEAKER_01:

The Met.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what they started. I've never been to the Met.

SPEAKER_01:

I would think that you would be at the Met.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't have anything to wear.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. You do, I bet.

SPEAKER_02:

So uh another fun fact about William Henry was his cause of death was listed as paralysis.

SPEAKER_01:

It was?

SPEAKER_02:

Does that what does that mean? Did he just seize up and nothing worked? I don't know. No, I thought that was weird. Maybe that's just AI. I don't like guessing.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, his sons uh were Cornelius II, who would be Gloria Vanderbilt's grandfather, Floria from Fashion Fake.

SPEAKER_01:

That one turned out okay.

SPEAKER_02:

She turned out okay. She had some issues, but she was okay.

SPEAKER_01:

She was a worker.

SPEAKER_02:

William Kissum Kissum, who was the founding member, one of the founding members of the Jekyll Island Club in Georgia. And I have been there, and it is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't want to know what you're doing there because there's some nefarious things that go down there.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh in Jekyll Island?

SPEAKER_01:

That's where they had the secret meeting many years ago, and kind of they decided how the economy was going to go and the World Bank Formation and all that shit.

SPEAKER_02:

Like they're doing now.

SPEAKER_01:

What that's going on now.

SPEAKER_02:

Not at Jekyll Island, but no. If you ever get a chance, you should go.

SPEAKER_01:

Dushalago.

SPEAKER_02:

It's beautiful Jekyll Island. I don't know about Mar-a Lago.

SPEAKER_01:

How many times have you been there? Uh Mar-a Lago, I mean.

SPEAKER_02:

No, uh, never. Never been to the island either. But Jekyll Island, I have been to at least three or four times. It's beautiful. I had a lovely gin and tonic there on the porch one time. It was terrific. Wait, now what do they have?

SPEAKER_01:

Can you stay there?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you can stay there. You can rent like um uh cottages. Oh, I've never done that. Or it's like a hotel. It is a hotel, it's not like a hotel, and it's right on the ocean. Okay, and they have croquet, and they have you love that part of the country. It's a beautiful, it was really pretty there. Yeah, you would like it. It was beautiful, and even though you don't drink, you can go have a nice uh drink or snack there.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it was gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02:

Sit on the porch, but then you're you know, a rich social, social person. So that was William was a founding member. Uh Frederick William was also a son of his. He was a yachter. Has had a word too. A yachter? Yeah. Oh, he was the guy who liked it.

SPEAKER_01:

He liked yes, they all kind of did, I guess.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh and then he had some um daughters, Emily, Eliza, Margaret Florence. They're all described as socialites and heiresses.

SPEAKER_00:

I want to be one of them.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's all they are. You know, they don't they were philanthropists, I suppose, but they didn't get they didn't get much press. Um, and then his youngest was George Washington Vanderbilt, and he's the one who built the Biltmore.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

He was the youngest of Cornelius II.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's a lot of Vanderbilt's Kate.

SPEAKER_02:

There is a lot. They have big families. I think then that was common because there's well, there's no birth control for one thing. And uh I think the more kids you had, you had a lot of kids because some are gonna die. You know, that sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, he had the first guy, first corn.

SPEAKER_01:

He had 11, he said.

SPEAKER_02:

He had well he had 13, but 11 survived. So um then George came along and he uh built the castle called the Biltmore. He had some claim to fame too, but he wasn't interested in the business, and of course he had enough money that he didn't have to really work. So his um thing was the Biltmore, and the Biltmore is not just a beautiful the the the not the world's largest, but the U United States largest president private house.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yes, they like imported like ceilings.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah, but they use a lot of local stuff too, yeah, which was good.

SPEAKER_01:

But I mean the house, well, you've been there.

SPEAKER_02:

I have been there, it's been everywhere. It's gorgeous, and um, it's built out of a lot of cement and marble because there was a lot of fires at that time. It was built in well, they started in 1889, ended in 1897, and I don't think uh when you're building a house like that, you're never done. Officially opened Christmas of 1895, and it's not just a house, there's grounds, there's gardens, there's uh uh uh forest managed forests. How many total acres is it?

SPEAKER_01:

8,000.

SPEAKER_02:

8,000?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Let me go to my Biltmore book. Where'd I put it? You have it over here. The Biltmore book. The Biltmore book. Forests, they have they had working farm, wildlife habitats. It was a real working estate. Um later they sent set up so he married um a woman named Edith, and they had baby Cornelia. I wonder why they named her after that grandpa.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's where the money came from, right? I guess. Um they had lots of hidden staircases, tunnels, they did, and bells for the staff so that they were never seen.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um actually, when we went to the Biltmore in the basement, was and it's not a basement per se, but it was a basement, and it is um where the staff stayed, and it was the most impressive part of the whole house. I mean, the rest of it was gorgeous. The basement it was the basement was because of like the the like the um because they had all the the workings down there. There's kitchen store in a minute. I just wanted to mention my favorite room in the Biltmore was the library. Beautiful. It was uh had and it had, you know, um uh I guess you call it a mezzanine and beautiful staircase up to it. And of course they had a ton of books. Yeah, and George Vanderbilt, good for you. He kept a record of all the books that he read.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, how many did he read?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know. I didn't I didn't get that. That was a lot, there's a it's a lot, yeah. But he kept a journal, like a book journal. That's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, okay. What about are you still on the Biltmore?

SPEAKER_02:

I am on the Biltmore. Do you want to talk about the Biltmore?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't. I was gonna mention, but we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, well, let me finish out the Biltmore. Biltmore opened to the public in 1930, and they did it during the Depression to promote tourism.

SPEAKER_01:

But didn't hold on a second. What was her name? And she's she's the one that opened it to the public.

SPEAKER_02:

The wife.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because he I think he passed away. He passed away young, George did.

SPEAKER_01:

She needed to make some money, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Um they still had some money, but she wanted to promote tourism around the area.

SPEAKER_01:

I got you.

SPEAKER_02:

So she's oh, she sold it for a buck uh or or leased it for a dollar a year to the preservation society of and it's not like uh some of the Billmore houses are uh national uh park not monuments monument or um what are they called? Yeah, we'll we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. But that one's not oh National Park Service, the part of the National Park Service, but not this one. This one's still privately owned. Did you see many RVs there? When you went there? Oh, it's uh I did not. Okay. Uh 175,000 square foot Renaissance style chateau.

SPEAKER_00:

Chateau.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a technically it's a chateau.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I was just looking for how many acres it is. You like it?

SPEAKER_01:

It's 8,000.

SPEAKER_02:

I believe, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if it is just I thought I read it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02:

And then during the war, the Biltmore stored art from the National Gallery. Did it really? Yeah, because during World War II, they didn't know if uh New York would get bombed. I mean, probably more likely to get bombed than the Biltmore.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, they stored some art there. They probably kept it. 8,000 acres of beautiful, carefully managed garden spores, farmlands, wildlife habitats, and historic options right there in the in the little brochure. Woo. Um and then in 1963, the Biltmore became a National Historic Landmark. So let me just tell you, we uh were talking about the basement and the staff at the Biltmore. They employed so many people. Uh, I wish I had a number. I do not. But there was, for instance, the head housekeeper who hired and fired and paid bills, kind of the HR person. And then a butler who made sure the meals all went smoothly, ladies made, they're a personal assistant for the women, ballet, male version of that, kitchen staff, just the kitchen staff. You need cooks, pastry chef, kitchen maids. I think there were four kitchens. Oh, and and not only for the Vanderbilts, that's the easy part, not really. But there's their guests, and then you have to pay or you have to feed all that staff too, because they're living on sites.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true. So there's a mean. Did they all live on staff? Uh site.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of them did, yeah. So when you went in the basement, there was all these rooms down there, and they, you know, again, it's not like a dungeon basement. It was high ceilings and it was had a lot of light in it.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's like a bunch of rooms for them there?

SPEAKER_02:

There, yeah. A lot of them lived there. Some lived off premise, like even in cabins.

SPEAKER_01:

Imagine how many grounds.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my god, the groundskeepers are totally, yeah, different from the even the house staff.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So the kitchens, there was again, there was the main kitchen, rotisserie kitchen, and a pastry kitchen. So there were all these different kitchens, different sizes, and electricity wasn't quite there. So these are all fire-driven, at least at the beginning. And then there's also maids who clean, of course, they lay the fires, they do the linens, change the linens every day. Footmen serve the meals, answer the door. The laundry people, the laundrists, they have the hardest job.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So they had, because you're not only washing clothes without a real washer and dryer, but you're ironing everything. And um just those two things.

SPEAKER_00:

They'd transporting transporting it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And they had, I remember they had these big drying racks because there's no dryer to throw it in at the beginning. Like that came out from the wall and they were heated somehow. I don't know if water ran through pipes and then they were heated so it so it dried them quicker. So they did employ many, many people local and not local. Sometimes they, you know, bring in well they must still.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I know that's a good thing. Yes, they do because I think you imagine just plumbing that place for electricity. Oh my gosh. Or plumbing. Yeah. Alone. I mean, holy moly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You could like it could be like days before you find out that something's not working in a room or you know, yeah, and if nobody's staying there, too.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't have the list of the bedrooms and bathrooms. Let's see if it's in the little handy dandy.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe they'd let us do the podcast there.

SPEAKER_02:

I doubt it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I doubt it too.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think they would. It was beautiful to go, and you can tour it, but nobody can stay there, which is bullshit. Um okay, so let's wrap up. Oh, the one other thing I wanted to mention about the Builtmore house, uh, because I do think it's something good that George Vanderbilt did and out of the Vanderbilt family.

SPEAKER_01:

And he Well, you mean build the house?

SPEAKER_02:

Because he built that house and he employed a lot of people building it and and then maintaining it, and now visiting it. Um, and even now that they're gone, it's still, I mean, they must get but it was I don't know how many million prestige thing. Yeah, I mean, he did it for himself, but it's a lasting legacy. Sure. Yeah, they have beautiful artwork in there, they have a Monet, a Whistler. Um, he was uh Singer Sergeant. Um John Singer Sergeant actually um painted some of the family members, more than one. I think he did George's mom, I shouldn't say it like that, and his wife. So they have famous portraits just of their family.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh god. Didn't now when you went there, is anything modernized?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, it's all modernized.

SPEAKER_01:

Like is there a Starbucks in there?

SPEAKER_02:

No, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

But you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02:

Not that modern. I mean, they kept it. Not that that's modern. And you know, you can't um alter the historic especially if you're a national historic. But that's not to say like the centennials uh store national on the National Historic Registry, so you gotta keep it as original as possible. Well, there wasn't bathrooms in there originally, but yeah, you can put bathrooms in.

SPEAKER_00:

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02:

There was an electricity, but you know, it's within reason. Yeah, it's within reason.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

What about the breakers?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, the breakers was a beautiful house, too. So that's kind of their lasting legacy, has become this architecture. There's the Newport Ride Rhode Island, the Breakers, Italian Renaissance style, and also the Marble House. Um, in Hyde Park, there's the Vanderbilt Mansion, and those are, I think, all on the National Park Service list. And they had some beautiful places that were torn down, if you can imagine.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. Well, they owned nine. The the the wife at one point, and that was her thing, mansions. And they had nine mansions, I believe is what I read. Was it Edith or a different wife? What wife? Number two, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, of Cornelius?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think. I'm not sure though.

SPEAKER_02:

There's a lot, there's so many people in the family.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and the many, um, I was gonna wrap up with the many descendants today. But do you have anything else?

SPEAKER_01:

No, man, you cover everything every time. It's good.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh, so they do have many descendants today, because they all have big families. We said that. Um, the most famous is probably Gloria Vanderbilt, who was uh fashion icon in her day, and um also the mother of Anderson Cooper, who is uh a great journalist. I like him a lot, but they went through their own shit. You know, her husband killed himself, and then her other son, Anderson jumped off brother.

SPEAKER_01:

14th floor.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. That's not that's not something my mom needs to do.

SPEAKER_01:

But she did come up with a nice pair of jeans.

SPEAKER_02:

She did, she does know jeans, and I'll tell you what, I have a pair of Bermuda shorts that I bought um that were Gloria Vanderbilt. Not because it was Gloria Vanderbilt, probably because they were on sale. Sure. But they gotta be 20 years old, and they still wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01:

Are you taking those on your trip?

SPEAKER_02:

I am, yeah. I like them. Cool. Yeah, I do. I take them everywhere. They always spit me, too. It doesn't matter how fat or skinny, those glorious always spit me. Oh anyway, uh, Anderson did say my mom was someone who believed that you should work for a living. So she got it. She gave away most of her money and left him some, but not a big like a million or something.

SPEAKER_01:

That dude works. So he's been all over the place.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh yeah, he is everywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

He's a journalist in dangerous situations. People give that guy shit. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know either. I love him. Yeah, I I think he does a good job. You know, and I I think like with everybody else, if you are on air so often, there are some taters and there's some fuck-ups that you do because you can't do everything perfect, no, especially if you're on live TV. Yeah, so don't focus on that, focus on the great, you know, overall journalism. And he so he would be the great great great grandson of Cornelius. And I didn't know this one, actor Timothy. How do you say his name? O-L-Y-P-H-A-N-T. Oliphant? Sure. Olephant from Justified. What the hell's Justified? Oh, it's a TV show. Oh deadline. He he was spending a bunch of movies too, live free or die hard. Um you would recognize him.

SPEAKER_01:

I would. I recognize the name. I don't can't picture him though.

SPEAKER_02:

I had no idea that he was um related. So he'd be Anderson's cousin.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And then director, screenwriter James Vanderbilt, who just did Nuremberg and has done the screen movies. Oh. Yeah. So those Vanderbilt are getting better and better. And this one shocked me, actually. John Hammond, who has been to Alpina at the Blues Fest, and my daughter Jenna met him, and he was delightful.

SPEAKER_01:

Who's John Hammond?

SPEAKER_02:

He is a musician who also scores Mooton uh movies, and his dad was a musician too. They concentrate on the blues. But um John P. Hammond is the son, and he scored the little big man movie. All the you know, music for that. So his grandmother is Cornelius' granddaughter. But who knew he was a Vanderbilt? Maybe I'm a Vanderbilt. You could be. I could be. I didn't come up on AI this time around, anyway.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you're twice removed. Or something like that. I don't know. You probably they probably left you money.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. I need to check that out. Actually, that's what Timothy Oliphant said. If I'm a Vanderbilt, I think somebody owes me some money. Yeah, couldn't they? So what say you? What's your verdict? Here or dick?

SPEAKER_01:

A dick.

SPEAKER_02:

All of them? Or let's say just Cornelius.

SPEAKER_01:

The first guy was kind of a dick.

SPEAKER_02:

He was, but without his dickness, we wouldn't have an empire.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure.

SPEAKER_02:

And a college and hospitals. And uh he kind of invented a whole economy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So But he was a dick. I I think people who build empires sometimes have to be dicks.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not saying whatever, but yeah, he was a dick. If it was a real nice guy, he probably wouldn't have done all that.

SPEAKER_02:

We probably wouldn't be talking about him.

SPEAKER_01:

Nope.

SPEAKER_02:

Nope. But um for architectural alone, though, I say heroes.

SPEAKER_01:

I think so too.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think uh generationally they got better and more uh giving with their money. Um yeah, the residuals left are great, but not always great in getting there. And as a result, we got nice clothing from journalism from Anderson Cooper. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, that's our verdict on that. Here, let's do some fast fives. And here is the topic for fast five. Okay, lean in. Um, so you know uh January. Well, the first one is dry January. So I say hero if you need to.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02:

But uh uh the offshoot from dry January is that everybody wants their own give up this for January. So here's the other one veganary.

SPEAKER_01:

Really? So you give up being a vegan?

SPEAKER_02:

No, you just vegan eat meat.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh drink blood and eat meat.

SPEAKER_02:

Veganary and healthy eating.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, whatever, man.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, if you want to, whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

Go drive.

SPEAKER_02:

How about digital detox scenary?

SPEAKER_01:

That everyone should do.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe not a whole month, though.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_01:

It'd be hard to get some stuff done.

SPEAKER_02:

You could detox and do less. Yeah. Um how about no spend in January? Wow. Yeah, I know. I was with my family this weekend, and um, one of my cousin's kids who has young kids and just did a big whoop-de-doo Christmas, and she said, January is no spend January. I am not spending any money in January. Like you gotta buy groceries.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and pay your electric bill. Yeah, yeah, pay your bills.

SPEAKER_02:

But don't buy toys for the dogs.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's my thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that your thing? That's the problem, man.

SPEAKER_01:

I buy you need to talk to her. Every time I walk by the toys, I hear my husky astro, and he's he talks like this. Hey, buddy. Does he like the birds or does he like the the ropes to do? He likes everything. He likes it like a ball um or squeaky toy. You know the operation game? The operation guy, and he had a tug thing sticking out of his ass or his foot. And so him and the other dog, well, they finally destroyed it the other day, but they love that shit.

SPEAKER_02:

Hmm. Now, does your you have two dogs? Yeah. Do you give them the puzzles?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the food puzzle. Yeah. The the husky likes it, the other one.

SPEAKER_02:

The other one's like, I'm like, I'm not working for that.

SPEAKER_01:

You're gonna give me a treat anyway.

SPEAKER_02:

Anyway, because I know Cassidy does that for her dog and dogs. And uh her big guy, Boomer, he loves a little baby toy. You know, we call them the babies, but they're just like little toys that he can carry around with them.

SPEAKER_01:

They like that stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

And he likes to line them all up.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, he does he really? Does that's nice.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, he loves the babies. Uh, and happy birthday tomorrow to Hazel, she'll be five. Okay, here's the last one for January. I liked this one. Give up expectations eerie.

SPEAKER_01:

That's probably a good idea.

SPEAKER_02:

So instead of having these big blown out resolutions, low expectations, yeah. Anti-resolution approach. I always say at Christmas, uh, after a certain uh age, I said, you know what? I have no expectations for presents, for parties, for anything. And if you had that low bar, you're never people are gonna surprise you. People surprise you, and sometimes you're like, wow, that was great. And sometimes you're like, yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_00:

It's on par. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02:

So I say hero for that one.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. The only other shout out I want to give or belly who were given. My research came from a book called The Last Castle, which is an epic story of love, lost, and American Roman. Royalty and the nation's largest home. It is by Denise Kianan. Kieran? Is that an R?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

She also wrote Girls of Atomic City, which is a good book too. But great book about the Biltmore. And so it has a lot of history, of course, about the Biltmore is in there too. And it's a it's a great book about how the Biltmore was built and how it's maintained and where it is today. Well, it's a very good book.

SPEAKER_01:

So wait, what's the Bally Who? To her? To her. Okay. Hey Denise.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey Denise. Good book.

SPEAKER_01:

Shit. Good old Denise.

SPEAKER_02:

And then the other one I want to say is I was with my family this weekend because my 97-year-old uncle passed away. And we will miss him every day, Uncle Bud.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, Bud. He's probably listening from up in the Great Beyond.

SPEAKER_02:

He's probably still busy catching up with people, but yeah, probably. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's only been a week.

SPEAKER_02:

97.

SPEAKER_01:

He is like that transition, all those people waiting for you.

SPEAKER_02:

I know. I know. He's happy though. He's ready. Yeah. So we miss him though. Already.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we'll dedicate. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02:

I hope that's recorded.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, me too. All right. Thanks, everybody. Yes, send us batteries. Oh, we never did get a letter, by the way. No handwritten, no email. That's all right. We'll write ourselves. We don't need that.

SPEAKER_02:

All right.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, any ideas for the next episode?

SPEAKER_02:

Have any.

SPEAKER_01:

So email us at hero or dick2023 at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02:

I did get a couple of suggestions given to me, but I'm not gonna say it out of there.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. They'll have to tune in next time. Yes. All right. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, bye.

Contributor

Kate & KJ

Host

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