Hero or Dick - S4., Ep. 2 - The Vanderbilts

It starts with a borrowed $100, a stubborn teenager, and a ferry that never slept. From there, the Vanderbilt story runs fast—from Cornelius Vanderbilt’s ruthless rise through ferries, steamships, and railroads to the cultural institutions and monuments the family later built to soften the edges.

We end where the money thins and the question sharpens: can libraries, opera houses, and grand estates ever balance out the damage done on the way up? Hero or Dick? The answer isn’t clean—and that tension may be the real legacy.

Thanks, as always for listening!

~ Kate & KJ

Transcript

Cold Open And Tech Troubles

SPEAKER_01 0:01

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Yeah. Hi, greetings. Now can we can hear each other? It's very odd. We always have technical difficulties.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

We always have a technical because we are techie. No, we always the technical. The big battery. Battery. A D battery. Oh, a nine volt.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Yeah, the ones you stick your tongue on and remember?

SPEAKER_02 0:24

I do not recall that.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

What? You didn't do that as a kid?

SPEAKER_02 0:27

I didn't, no. But that explains a lot.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Kate was talking so far about shoveling.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I hate it.

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What else was there?

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I wanted to just say welcome to heroes.

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Oh, road travels. Traveling together.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

And that's true.

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Depends on who you travel with.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Right.

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Yeah. Can be delightful.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Can be She's not going to rent an RV.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

No, I'm not renting an RV. I don't want to drive an RV.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I do. Not a big one. I want a van one.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Drive one and then talk to me. Do you think it's easier driving those smaller ones? Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

It'll be easier to park them. Dude, they're only 17 feet long.

Banter On Travel And RV Dreams

Welcome And Show Framing

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I'm telling you. Drive one and then talk to me. Okay. Welcome to season four, episode two of Hero or Dick, where we talk about many things. I don't think sometimes the topic, sometimes not.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah. I don't like talking about the topic. No, you like taking it off top. I do like, I don't think we're ever gonna top. I made my own coffee today.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Oh, good job.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Uh with my new espresso machine I told you about. It's got a little shot of coffee in here, but I mixed it with DCAF.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Fancy.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah. But anyway, uh the last episode was I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Oh, something happened. Stop.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Well, it's still recording down here. I don't know. Do we just use the phone now? Well, we'll go. We'll go. We uh phones come and go. Come do pretty good there. I'll have to do some fancy stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

So we don't have a calling guest today, so we don't need that.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

And thank you for calling guests last week. She should host the show. We should just hand it over to her. Well to Harley.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

You've been trying to get out of it for a while now.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Sure. Thank you again, Harley. You did a great job. You did such a good job that we're gonna hand over the reins to you.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yep. Heroic hosted by Harley.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

The 33-year-old emo aka, just normal genius.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

She's a normal genius.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

A normal genius.

unknown 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

A normal genius.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Um I sure hope this works, Kate. But I hope so too.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

We'll have to play it back.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

So this is Heroic. I think we said that. We still broadcast from Alpina, Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

We do, where it's very cold today.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

One, I think.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Something like that. I said ten in my car.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Why is everybody whining? What did you just say earlier? You don't want to shovel because it's too cold?

SPEAKER_02 2:58

No, I just don't want to shovel.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I don't care what the temperature is. I was gonna tell you, I can still blow that too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

For fun. I like doing it.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

No.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

It makes me happy still blowing.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

If you really wanted to, you can build it. We splow it and shovel it, and that's fine.

Introducing The Vanderbilt Topic

SPEAKER_01 3:12

All right. So we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Our topic is the Vanderbilts. The Vanderbilts.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

That's it. That's it. Anderson Cooper's family.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

It is Anderson Cooper's family.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

He's probably the best Vanderbilt there is.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

He could be. He could be. He's up there. Yeah. Sorry. They are um huh. Well, let's talk about them. So I started with the family tree of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

The Commodore.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah, the Commodore is the one.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

He was probably the best one of the books.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

There was Vanderbilt's before them, but they were, he was the one who really built the empire.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

He was born in 1794, died in 1877.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

What is that?

SPEAKER_02 3:53

It's a long time. 70, you know, it's 81 years, 80-ish years. And you know what I thought uh I saw one of his um things said cause of death, fatigue. Oh, just tired. Yeah, I'm there, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

You know, they say that when people, older people get to, you know, close to it, they just say, I'm just tired.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Just done. Yeah, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Sign me out. Nothing. Yeah. Anyway, so at 16 is when he started, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

And he borrowed a hundred bucks to buy a ferry boat. And he ran on it, he slept on it.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

And he ferried people and freight between Staten Island and New York City. And that was pretty genius of him.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Well, what I thought was genius is that he basically destroyed the competition by not charging. Well, and he charged for food and drinks and stuff on board, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Mm-hmm. So he wiped, he was uh, and this is a business model that a lot of people use. He uh catered to the business in that he didn't charge much while he had competition, and then when he didn't have competition, he could charge whatever he wanted.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

So that's what he did.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

A very shrewd businessman.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Or dick.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

But he did have more. Didn't he have more philanthropy than the folks that came after him? Or no?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

No, he did not. He didn't? He did not. We'll get into it, but the his uh generations that he produced were much more philanthropic. Is that a word? Philanthropic. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Philanthropic?

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Philanthropic? Than him, than Cornelius. He was he was tight with his money, lived frugally or modestly for you know a I I know he was at least a millionaire. I don't know if he was a billionaire.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I thought he died with like a hundred million dollars, which would be three billion today.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

That's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

And after, you know, so much, do you how how much do you need?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Uh give me a million bucks.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

A million? That's not enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

I would have to keep working.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Well, oh, I don't want to work. I don't want to shuffle either. So Cornelius Cornelius, aka the Commodore. Why'd they call him the Commodore?

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

I don't either.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Uh-oh. Because he liked the band the Commodores. Oh, wait, that's reverse.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

No, wouldn't that be like Captain or a Yeah, I guess because that means you're you're well-term for the boss.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Then he branched into rail service. Then he started getting the cash. He offered the first um transportation between NYC and Chicago. Oh. And people needed to get from Chicago to NYC and they wanted to take a train in that era because that's how you did it. In 1813, he married his first cousin. Come on. They did it. Why did they do that? That's probably good advice. Well, probably.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Maybe that's what happened with these kids generations after.

Power, Monopolies, And Labor Views

SPEAKER_02 6:58

Sophia Johnson was his first cousin. Not only that, he had 13 kids, 11 survived to adulthood, which is a pretty good ratio. But then, like now, the richer you are, the more apt your children will survive childhood. And you will survive having them.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

And he lived a long time.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Yeah. It has to do with his wife more, probably.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

He was, um, by all almost all accounts I read, terrible husband and father, ignored his daughters. They were just, you know, yeah baggage. Uh I wrote, they were something, but I can't read it. And uh he did commit his son, Cornelius Jeremiah, to the lunatic asylum twice. As well as Sophia. When he took a shine to the governess, he had Sophia, his wife, committed to the lunatic asylum, which was his that's what you do.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

You know, it's like if you're not loyal, you don't agree.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

And the husband could do that then. Up till pretty recent years, actually. But that's another topic.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Um he didn't like unions.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

He uh views them, he viewed them as organized theft, labor and theft. He thought that you know, basically it's bad stuff. He refused to negotiate and he blacklisted people. Wait a second, this is sound pretty familiar. Um paid off legislators.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Who are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Uh God. But uh he controlled enough rail traffic that the entire regions were hostage to his pricing, like they were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

He had the monopoly monopoly. Yeah, and then in 1817, new technology of steamship.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

What about it? Well, you got into that too.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Cornelius partnered with Thomas Gibbons.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Oh, good old time.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

You know, Tom.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

He in the steamship business, and they built a shipping Mecca. They were like and also tromped out all competitors and sometimes co-owners. And let me tell you how Thomas Gibbons passed away, and his son wanted to uh take over his dad's part, and and Cornelius didn't want him there, right? He basically pushed him out. Yeah, he wouldn't sell to him, and then uh um it wasn't pretty, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And um he pushed him out. He I was wrong, of course. I am usually when I'm talking here, but he um thought that charity was actually a weakness, uh, yes, and that poverty was failure, well, and suffering was corrective.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Well, and I think he did come from um a poor family, so I I think I bought it. You know, look what I did. Everybody can do that. Well, not everybody can do that.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

And do you think the reason he thought that was he did it, he pulled it off, and so he thought, I'm not gonna help people, do it yourself.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Don't mistake my kindness for weakness, is the famous quote.

Steamships, Partners, And Lawsuits

SPEAKER_01 10:17

What he said that no, I've said that. That's one of your favorite quotes.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

My mom turned me out of my quote, and she's right. You know, I'll help you out, but don't think I'm going to for the rest of your life or whatever. Uh he did. Here's the the only charity that I found was he did donate the largest ship called the Vanderbilt in his fleet to the Union Army during the Civil War. He probably took it back though after the Civil War.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Probably. Maybe not to the Union, though.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

Maybe not. Then his uh first wife died, and he married his second wife, and her I thought this was interesting. It has nothing to do with the Vanderbilts. Her name was Frank Armstrong because it's like he married Frank Armstrong. I'm like, whoa, she's so progressive. No, she was her parents promised to name her after a family friend. They promised to name their firstborn after a family friend, and then her name's name was Frank. So it didn't matter. You can't call her Frankie or Frances or you don't hear Frank.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Nobody names their kid Frank anymore, do they? Frank? Frank.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

I haven't seen a baby Frank in a long time.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Baby Frank? Baby Frank. That's what they put.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

By the way, Frankenstein. Oh, maybe that's the kids. Oh, baby Frank. Yeah, those are good things.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Anyhow.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Um, so she married him though, Frank Armstrong.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

She wasn't a cousin, was she?

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Uh no, she wasn't. But he got past the past that. I don't know. I think they had any kids together, though. Oh. Uh in 1871, here's his other charity. He financed a monument to his empire called the Grand Central Depot. An NYC. Yeah. He lived modestly, but his what did he do you know what he liked to buy? What was his guilty pleasure?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

He wasn't the Castle guy, was he?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

No, that's George.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

He's coming up.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

He he liked to buy race horses.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of his kids was afflicted with that as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Or not kids, grandkids.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Uh kids or grandkids. He did also did give a million dollars to start up Vanderbilt University.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Vandy?

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And it's still going.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

So Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Oh, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

I'll Google it while you keep talking.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I don't have anything to talk about. I'm looking forward to getting to the Cornelius.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Uh died in 1877, had about 90 million or 100 million in the bank.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

So he gave most of it to his son William Henry, who worked in the business.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

So he knew almost all of it. One guy only got a half million bucks, right? Something like that. Not even.

Philanthropy, Family, And Legacy Myths

SPEAKER_02 12:59

200k trust fund to Cornelius Jeremiah, who's in the silent asylum. So you know. Um wife and daughters, they got between, depending on who you were, you got 200 to 500k, but they did get property in stock. But they I mean the guy had 90 million. Can you give them all a million dollars? No, no, I can't do that. What was that?

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Oh, Grand Central. Grand Central, you're looking at Vanderbilt University.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

We gotta get that. Well, who was that kid's name that was here that used to help us with this stuff?

SPEAKER_02 13:31

I don't know, but we need well we were gonna hire uh University. Harley, right? Oh my gosh, I would love that. We can't afford her. That's true, we can't. Unless she volunteers.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

We need an intern.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

It's in Tennessee. Nashville, Tennessee. I was right. Oh yeah. You can't stop me, Kate. I can, but I won't. I know. Yeah, founded in 1873. So you know, but why did have some legacy? I think he just did that to like a million dollars, got my name on it. Oh, again. Why does that sound familiar?

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

I guess it's called Tennessee, because that's where uh George eventually went. Maybe oh Tennessee. So he was there before maybe that was I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not gonna Google that. You gotta Google that one yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

I don't want to touch the phone, screw it.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So money didn't get him or his family accepted into any society.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Because it was new money, it was new money. Isn't that weird? Like the richo prickos there. If it's not like old money, you were like trash. That's fucking weird, man.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

That's not weird. That's how it's always been. But that makes no sense. It doesn't. I can say it made sense.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Because it was new money at one time. Well, now it's old money. What is Vanderbilt money? I know, but the people that wouldn't let them in because they were new money, they came from old money, but it was new money at some time. At some point. At some point, we're all immigrants, too. And doesn't old money mean you may not have to work as much for it? Yeah. As new money? Yeah. What a this whole thing, I don't like it. This made me hate billionaires and millionaires and fucking capitalism. I not hate it, but come on, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Well, and then you kind of um you have to wonder, okay, so now you get to Cornelius's kids and grandkids. They're born into it. So is it their fault that they're born into money?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

And so it's how they handle it though. Right. And and they handled it better than him. I think every generation has gotten a little more generous with it.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

And um I'm not knocking all billionaires and millionaires, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Cornelius was capitalism.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

I don't want to get in trouble. I can't say what's on my mind.

Vanderbilt University And New Money Stigma

SPEAKER_02 15:57

I say you can say whatever you want. Nobody's listening.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Um I'm listening, but so William Henry Vanderbilt was um his son, who received most of his money because he worked with him.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

He doubled the money.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

He did, he did a good job. He expanded the family railroad empire, was an active philanthropist who gave to the YMCA.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

YMCA.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I was waiting to see if you'd sing. Columbia, do you have a song for that? No. Oh. And the Metropolitan Opera, which he and other New York City new money people set up to compete with the New York Academy of Music because they were socially excluded from that. So they're like, screw you, we'll just start our own.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah. Met the Met.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

The Met.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

That's what they started. I've never been to the Met.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

I would think that you would be at the Met.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

I don't have anything to wear.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Oh, yeah. You do, I bet.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

So uh another fun fact about William Henry was his cause of death was listed as paralysis.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

It was?

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Does that what does that mean? Did he just seize up and nothing worked? I don't know. No, I thought that was weird. Maybe that's just AI. I don't like guessing.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Um, his sons uh were Cornelius II, who would be Gloria Vanderbilt's grandfather, Floria from Fashion Fake.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

That one turned out okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

She turned out okay. She had some issues, but she was okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

She was a worker.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

William Kissum Kissum, who was the founding member, one of the founding members of the Jekyll Island Club in Georgia. And I have been there, and it is beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

I don't want to know what you're doing there because there's some nefarious things that go down there.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Uh in Jekyll Island?

SPEAKER_01 17:55

That's where they had the secret meeting many years ago, and kind of they decided how the economy was going to go and the World Bank Formation and all that shit.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Like they're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

What that's going on now.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Not at Jekyll Island, but no. If you ever get a chance, you should go.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Dushalago.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

It's beautiful Jekyll Island. I don't know about Mar-a Lago.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

How many times have you been there? Uh Mar-a Lago, I mean.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

No, uh, never. Never been to the island either. But Jekyll Island, I have been to at least three or four times. It's beautiful. I had a lovely gin and tonic there on the porch one time. It was terrific. Wait, now what do they have?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Can you stay there?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, you can stay there. You can rent like um uh cottages. Oh, I've never done that. Or it's like a hotel. It is a hotel, it's not like a hotel, and it's right on the ocean. Okay, and they have croquet, and they have you love that part of the country. It's a beautiful, it was really pretty there. Yeah, you would like it. It was beautiful, and even though you don't drink, you can go have a nice uh drink or snack there.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

It's it was gorgeous.

William Henry’s Expansion And The Met

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Sit on the porch, but then you're you know, a rich social, social person. So that was William was a founding member. Uh Frederick William was also a son of his. He was a yachter. Has had a word too. A yachter? Yeah. Oh, he was the guy who liked it.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

He liked yes, they all kind of did, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Uh and then he had some um daughters, Emily, Eliza, Margaret Florence. They're all described as socialites and heiresses.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

I want to be one of them.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

And that's all they are. You know, they don't they were philanthropists, I suppose, but they didn't get they didn't get much press. Um, and then his youngest was George Washington Vanderbilt, and he's the one who built the Biltmore.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

He was the youngest of Cornelius II.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

So there's a lot of Vanderbilt's Kate.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

There is a lot. They have big families. I think then that was common because there's well, there's no birth control for one thing. And uh I think the more kids you had, you had a lot of kids because some are gonna die. You know, that sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

You know, he had the first guy, first corn.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

He had 11, he said.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

He had well he had 13, but 11 survived. So um then George came along and he uh built the castle called the Biltmore. He had some claim to fame too, but he wasn't interested in the business, and of course he had enough money that he didn't have to really work. So his um thing was the Biltmore, and the Biltmore is not just a beautiful the the the not the world's largest, but the U United States largest president private house.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Yeah, yes, they like imported like ceilings.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Oh yeah, but they use a lot of local stuff too, yeah, which was good.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

But I mean the house, well, you've been there.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

I have been there, it's been everywhere. It's gorgeous, and um, it's built out of a lot of cement and marble because there was a lot of fires at that time. It was built in well, they started in 1889, ended in 1897, and I don't think uh when you're building a house like that, you're never done. Officially opened Christmas of 1895, and it's not just a house, there's grounds, there's gardens, there's uh uh uh forest managed forests. How many total acres is it?

SPEAKER_01 21:54

8,000.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

8,000?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Let me go to my Biltmore book. Where'd I put it? You have it over here. The Biltmore book. The Biltmore book. Forests, they have they had working farm, wildlife habitats. It was a real working estate. Um later they sent set up so he married um a woman named Edith, and they had baby Cornelia. I wonder why they named her after that grandpa.

Enter George Vanderbilt And Biltmore

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Well, that's where the money came from, right? I guess. Um they had lots of hidden staircases, tunnels, they did, and bells for the staff so that they were never seen.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Yeah. Um actually, when we went to the Biltmore in the basement, was and it's not a basement per se, but it was a basement, and it is um where the staff stayed, and it was the most impressive part of the whole house. I mean, the rest of it was gorgeous. The basement it was the basement was because of like the the like the um because they had all the the workings down there. There's kitchen store in a minute. I just wanted to mention my favorite room in the Biltmore was the library. Beautiful. It was uh had and it had, you know, um uh I guess you call it a mezzanine and beautiful staircase up to it. And of course they had a ton of books. Yeah, and George Vanderbilt, good for you. He kept a record of all the books that he read.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Oh, how many did he read?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

I don't know. I didn't I didn't get that. That was a lot, there's a it's a lot, yeah. But he kept a journal, like a book journal. That's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Um, okay. What about are you still on the Biltmore?

SPEAKER_02 23:39

I am on the Biltmore. Do you want to talk about the Biltmore?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

I don't. I was gonna mention, but we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Okay, well, let me finish out the Biltmore. Biltmore opened to the public in 1930, and they did it during the Depression to promote tourism.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

But didn't hold on a second. What was her name? And she's she's the one that opened it to the public.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

The wife.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah, because he I think he passed away. He passed away young, George did.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

She needed to make some money, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Um they still had some money, but she wanted to promote tourism around the area.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

I got you.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

So she's oh, she sold it for a buck uh or or leased it for a dollar a year to the preservation society of and it's not like uh some of the Billmore houses are uh national uh park not monuments monument or um what are they called? Yeah, we'll we'll get to it.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Yeah, yeah. But that one's not oh National Park Service, the part of the National Park Service, but not this one. This one's still privately owned. Did you see many RVs there? When you went there? Oh, it's uh I did not. Okay. Uh 175,000 square foot Renaissance style chateau.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Chateau.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

It's a technically it's a chateau.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

I was just looking for how many acres it is. You like it?

SPEAKER_01 24:57

It's 8,000.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

I believe, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I don't know if it is just I thought I read it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

And then during the war, the Biltmore stored art from the National Gallery. Did it really? Yeah, because during World War II, they didn't know if uh New York would get bombed. I mean, probably more likely to get bombed than the Biltmore.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah.

Inside Biltmore: Design And Purpose

SPEAKER_02 25:18

So yeah, they stored some art there. They probably kept it. 8,000 acres of beautiful, carefully managed garden spores, farmlands, wildlife habitats, and historic options right there in the in the little brochure. Woo. Um and then in 1963, the Biltmore became a National Historic Landmark. So let me just tell you, we uh were talking about the basement and the staff at the Biltmore. They employed so many people. Uh, I wish I had a number. I do not. But there was, for instance, the head housekeeper who hired and fired and paid bills, kind of the HR person. And then a butler who made sure the meals all went smoothly, ladies made, they're a personal assistant for the women, ballet, male version of that, kitchen staff, just the kitchen staff. You need cooks, pastry chef, kitchen maids. I think there were four kitchens. Oh, and and not only for the Vanderbilts, that's the easy part, not really. But there's their guests, and then you have to pay or you have to feed all that staff too, because they're living on sites.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's true. So there's a mean. Did they all live on staff? Uh site.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

A lot of them did, yeah. So when you went in the basement, there was all these rooms down there, and they, you know, again, it's not like a dungeon basement. It was high ceilings and it was had a lot of light in it.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So there's like a bunch of rooms for them there?

SPEAKER_02 26:49

There, yeah. A lot of them lived there. Some lived off premise, like even in cabins.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Imagine how many grounds.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Oh my god, the groundskeepers are totally, yeah, different from the even the house staff.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

So the kitchens, there was again, there was the main kitchen, rotisserie kitchen, and a pastry kitchen. So there were all these different kitchens, different sizes, and electricity wasn't quite there. So these are all fire-driven, at least at the beginning. And then there's also maids who clean, of course, they lay the fires, they do the linens, change the linens every day. Footmen serve the meals, answer the door. The laundry people, the laundrists, they have the hardest job.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

So they had, because you're not only washing clothes without a real washer and dryer, but you're ironing everything. And um just those two things.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

They'd transporting transporting it.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah. And they had, I remember they had these big drying racks because there's no dryer to throw it in at the beginning. Like that came out from the wall and they were heated somehow. I don't know if water ran through pipes and then they were heated so it so it dried them quicker. So they did employ many, many people local and not local. Sometimes they, you know, bring in well they must still.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

I mean, I know that's a good thing. Yes, they do because I think you imagine just plumbing that place for electricity. Oh my gosh. Or plumbing. Yeah. Alone. I mean, holy moly.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

You could like it could be like days before you find out that something's not working in a room or you know, yeah, and if nobody's staying there, too.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I don't have the list of the bedrooms and bathrooms. Let's see if it's in the little handy dandy.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Maybe they'd let us do the podcast there.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

I doubt it.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah, I doubt it too.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

I don't think they would. It was beautiful to go, and you can tour it, but nobody can stay there, which is bullshit. Um okay, so let's wrap up. Oh, the one other thing I wanted to mention about the Builtmore house, uh, because I do think it's something good that George Vanderbilt did and out of the Vanderbilt family.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

And he Well, you mean build the house?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Because he built that house and he employed a lot of people building it and and then maintaining it, and now visiting it. Um, and even now that they're gone, it's still, I mean, they must get but it was I don't know how many million prestige thing. Yeah, I mean, he did it for himself, but it's a lasting legacy. Sure. Yeah, they have beautiful artwork in there, they have a Monet, a Whistler. Um, he was uh Singer Sergeant. Um John Singer Sergeant actually um painted some of the family members, more than one. I think he did George's mom, I shouldn't say it like that, and his wife. So they have famous portraits just of their family.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Oh god. Didn't now when you went there, is anything modernized?

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Yes, it's all modernized.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Like is there a Starbucks in there?

SPEAKER_02 30:02

No, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

But you know what I'm saying?

Opening To Public And War-Time Role

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Not that modern. I mean, they kept it. Not that that's modern. And you know, you can't um alter the historic especially if you're a national historic. But that's not to say like the centennials uh store national on the National Historic Registry, so you gotta keep it as original as possible. Well, there wasn't bathrooms in there originally, but yeah, you can put bathrooms in.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

There was an electricity, but you know, it's within reason. Yeah, it's within reason.

unknown 30:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

What about the breakers?

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Oh, the breakers was a beautiful house, too. So that's kind of their lasting legacy, has become this architecture. There's the Newport Ride Rhode Island, the Breakers, Italian Renaissance style, and also the Marble House. Um, in Hyde Park, there's the Vanderbilt Mansion, and those are, I think, all on the National Park Service list. And they had some beautiful places that were torn down, if you can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Oh, yeah. Well, they owned nine. The the the wife at one point, and that was her thing, mansions. And they had nine mansions, I believe is what I read. Was it Edith or a different wife? What wife? Number two, I think.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Oh, of Cornelius?

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah, I think. I'm not sure though.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

There's a lot, there's so many people in the family.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Um, and the many, um, I was gonna wrap up with the many descendants today. But do you have anything else?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

No, man, you cover everything every time. It's good.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Uh, so they do have many descendants today, because they all have big families. We said that. Um, the most famous is probably Gloria Vanderbilt, who was uh fashion icon in her day, and um also the mother of Anderson Cooper, who is uh a great journalist. I like him a lot, but they went through their own shit. You know, her husband killed himself, and then her other son, Anderson jumped off brother.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

14th floor.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Yeah, yeah. That's not that's not something my mom needs to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

But she did come up with a nice pair of jeans.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

She did, she does know jeans, and I'll tell you what, I have a pair of Bermuda shorts that I bought um that were Gloria Vanderbilt. Not because it was Gloria Vanderbilt, probably because they were on sale. Sure. But they gotta be 20 years old, and they still wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Are you taking those on your trip?

SPEAKER_02 32:28

I am, yeah. I like them. Cool. Yeah, I do. I take them everywhere. They always spit me, too. It doesn't matter how fat or skinny, those glorious always spit me. Oh anyway, uh, Anderson did say my mom was someone who believed that you should work for a living. So she got it. She gave away most of her money and left him some, but not a big like a million or something.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

That dude works. So he's been all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Uh yeah, he is everywhere.

Staff Ecosystem And Operations

SPEAKER_01 32:55

He's a journalist in dangerous situations. People give that guy shit. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

I don't know either. I love him. Yeah, I I think he does a good job. You know, and I I think like with everybody else, if you are on air so often, there are some taters and there's some fuck-ups that you do because you can't do everything perfect, no, especially if you're on live TV. Yeah, so don't focus on that, focus on the great, you know, overall journalism. And he so he would be the great great great grandson of Cornelius. And I didn't know this one, actor Timothy. How do you say his name? O-L-Y-P-H-A-N-T. Oliphant? Sure. Olephant from Justified. What the hell's Justified? Oh, it's a TV show. Oh deadline. He he was spending a bunch of movies too, live free or die hard. Um you would recognize him.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

I would. I recognize the name. I don't can't picture him though.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

I had no idea that he was um related. So he'd be Anderson's cousin.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

And then director, screenwriter James Vanderbilt, who just did Nuremberg and has done the screen movies. Oh. Yeah. So those Vanderbilt are getting better and better. And this one shocked me, actually. John Hammond, who has been to Alpina at the Blues Fest, and my daughter Jenna met him, and he was delightful.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Who's John Hammond?

SPEAKER_02 34:31

He is a musician who also scores Mooton uh movies, and his dad was a musician too. They concentrate on the blues. But um John P. Hammond is the son, and he scored the little big man movie. All the you know, music for that. So his grandmother is Cornelius' granddaughter. But who knew he was a Vanderbilt? Maybe I'm a Vanderbilt. You could be. I could be. I didn't come up on AI this time around, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Well, you're twice removed. Or something like that. I don't know. You probably they probably left you money.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Oh, yeah. I need to check that out. Actually, that's what Timothy Oliphant said. If I'm a Vanderbilt, I think somebody owes me some money. Yeah, couldn't they? So what say you? What's your verdict? Here or dick?

SPEAKER_01 35:23

A dick.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

All of them? Or let's say just Cornelius.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

The first guy was kind of a dick.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

He was, but without his dickness, we wouldn't have an empire.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

And a college and hospitals. And uh he kind of invented a whole economy.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

So But he was a dick. I I think people who build empires sometimes have to be dicks.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

I'm not saying whatever, but yeah, he was a dick. If it was a real nice guy, he probably wouldn't have done all that.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

We probably wouldn't be talking about him.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Nope. But um for architectural alone, though, I say heroes.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

I think so too.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

And I think uh generationally they got better and more uh giving with their money. Um yeah, the residuals left are great, but not always great in getting there. And as a result, we got nice clothing from journalism from Anderson Cooper. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

So yeah.

Architectural Legacy Beyond Biltmore

SPEAKER_02 36:26

All right, that's our verdict on that. Here, let's do some fast fives. And here is the topic for fast five. Okay, lean in. Um, so you know uh January. Well, the first one is dry January. So I say hero if you need to.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I mean, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

But uh uh the offshoot from dry January is that everybody wants their own give up this for January. So here's the other one veganary.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Really? So you give up being a vegan?

SPEAKER_02 36:59

No, you just vegan eat meat.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Uh drink blood and eat meat.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Veganary and healthy eating.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Hey, whatever, man.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

I mean, if you want to, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Go drive.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

How about digital detox scenary?

SPEAKER_01 37:17

That everyone should do.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Maybe not a whole month, though.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

It'd be hard to get some stuff done.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

You could detox and do less. Yeah. Um how about no spend in January? Wow. Yeah, I know. I was with my family this weekend, and um, one of my cousin's kids who has young kids and just did a big whoop-de-doo Christmas, and she said, January is no spend January. I am not spending any money in January. Like you gotta buy groceries.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yeah, and pay your electric bill. Yeah, yeah, pay your bills.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

But don't buy toys for the dogs.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Yeah, that's my thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Is that your thing? That's the problem, man.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

I buy you need to talk to her. Every time I walk by the toys, I hear my husky astro, and he's he talks like this. Hey, buddy. Does he like the birds or does he like the the ropes to do? He likes everything. He likes it like a ball um or squeaky toy. You know the operation game? The operation guy, and he had a tug thing sticking out of his ass or his foot. And so him and the other dog, well, they finally destroyed it the other day, but they love that shit.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Hmm. Now, does your you have two dogs? Yeah. Do you give them the puzzles?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, the food puzzle. Yeah. The the husky likes it, the other one.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

The other one's like, I'm like, I'm not working for that.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

You're gonna give me a treat anyway.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Anyway, because I know Cassidy does that for her dog and dogs. And uh her big guy, Boomer, he loves a little baby toy. You know, we call them the babies, but they're just like little toys that he can carry around with them.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

They like that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

And he likes to line them all up.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Oh, he does he really? Does that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Oh, he loves the babies. Uh, and happy birthday tomorrow to Hazel, she'll be five. Okay, here's the last one for January. I liked this one. Give up expectations eerie.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

That's probably a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

So instead of having these big blown out resolutions, low expectations, yeah. Anti-resolution approach. I always say at Christmas, uh, after a certain uh age, I said, you know what? I have no expectations for presents, for parties, for anything. And if you had that low bar, you're never people are gonna surprise you. People surprise you, and sometimes you're like, wow, that was great. And sometimes you're like, yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

It's on par. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

So I say hero for that one.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yeah.

Famous Descendants And Modern Impact

SPEAKER_02 39:49

All right. The only other shout out I want to give or belly who were given. My research came from a book called The Last Castle, which is an epic story of love, lost, and American Roman. Royalty and the nation's largest home. It is by Denise Kianan. Kieran? Is that an R?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

She also wrote Girls of Atomic City, which is a good book too. But great book about the Biltmore. And so it has a lot of history, of course, about the Biltmore is in there too. And it's a it's a great book about how the Biltmore was built and how it's maintained and where it is today. Well, it's a very good book.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

So wait, what's the Bally Who? To her? To her. Okay. Hey Denise.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Hey Denise. Good book.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Shit. Good old Denise.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

And then the other one I want to say is I was with my family this weekend because my 97-year-old uncle passed away. And we will miss him every day, Uncle Bud.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Hi, Bud. He's probably listening from up in the Great Beyond.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

He's probably still busy catching up with people, but yeah, probably. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

You know, it's only been a week.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

97.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

He is like that transition, all those people waiting for you.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I know. I know. He's happy though. He's ready. Yeah. So we miss him though. Already.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Well, we'll dedicate. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I hope that's recorded.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah, me too. All right. Thanks, everybody. Yes, send us batteries. Oh, we never did get a letter, by the way. No handwritten, no email. That's all right. We'll write ourselves. We don't need that.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

All right.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Um, any ideas for the next episode?

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Have any.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

So email us at hero or dick2023 at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I did get a couple of suggestions given to me, but I'm not gonna say it out of there.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

All right. They'll have to tune in next time. Yes. All right. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Okay, bye.