Hero or Dick - S4., Ep. 7 - America at 250

America turns 250 soon, and instead of uncomplicated pride, we found questions. We talk patriotism, propaganda, immigration, inequality, surveillance, AI, and the cost of “progress” in modern America.

From 1776 to today, we look at the country’s biggest achievements, failures, contradictions, and myths—then ask the only question that matters: hero or dick?

As always, thanks for listening!

~ Kate & KJ

Transcript

Greetings And Cottage Boat Plans

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Okay. I think yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

There we are.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

We're on.

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Greetings and salutations.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Welcome to Hero Dick.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Season twenty-seven.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Season.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Season four, episode seven. Seven. Um nice day today.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

It's May and it's finally decent out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

But temperature's supposed to drop. I think I might go to the cottage after work. Got the boat in the water, got the dock in the water.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Wow, I have a lot of things. Thanks to Brandon.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Brandon helped me.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Thanks, Brandon.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

And my dad. Thank you, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Wow. Dad came too.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Dad doesn't listen to the podcast. No. Um but yeah, it was good they helped, got the hoist, and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Well, you're ahead of the game because usually people do it on Memorial Day.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I was so excited about the boat, you know, the new boat. So I wanted to get that in and took it for a ride. It was freezing.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

How was it though? How was the boat? Smooth riding? Yeah. Now, did you get a pontoon boat or a fishing boat?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Uh no, I'm not a pontoon boat.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

You got a cigarette boat?

SPEAKER_00 1:05

It's just uh drugs. It's about a it's like a 17 and a half foot sport boat, open bow. Oh, uh Brooke liked it, so that's important. Yeah. Yeah. Lotter room. I think you can.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Are you a fisherman?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Um yeah, I like fishing. Yeah. In fact, I'm looking forward to just drifting.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Drifting. I think it's called. Is that what it's called when you're fishing? Drifting.

unknown 1:27

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It's uh what else that there's a name for it? Well, anyway, boat. I love a boat.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Did you get your fishing license? No. Okay. Get it I'll take your fishing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

A couple more weeks and it's free fishing.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

That's what my dad said too. I said, hey, get your license. He's like, I'm gonna wait until free fishing. I'm like, okay. Brooke likes to go fishing. She doesn't fish, but she likes to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I like to go fishing.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Sit there and read.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Sometimes I like to cast a little bit. But I don't really want to catch a fish. Although, you know, what happens?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

I'm gonna try to be a man this year and catch some fish.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

And take them off the hook.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

And keep them and have like fillet them. Yeah. It's hard. It's not hard.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

It's not hard, but it's the older I get, I'm getting wimpy. You don't like touching them?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

No, I just don't like killing stuff as much as I used to.

Fishing Talk And Modern Squeamishness

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Not that I ever liked it, but um speaking of killing. Um today's up.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Oh, did you want to commit uh commit to something?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

No, our topic is uh Dahmer, Jeffrey Dahmer.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh, I wish we could do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

We should do oh we did serial killers.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

We can do it again though, with specific ones.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

No, we put it.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

But today's topic, no, because it's the today's topic is coming up and it is America's or United States of America.

Why The 250th Feels Complicated

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Not America. America. It's our our 250th birthday.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Anniversary. I try I went into this trying to be positive and patriotic. But I think the most patriotic thing you can do sometimes is question your country and foundation.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And if you can't, then you're a problem.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, you're just gonna get paid out by this flush fund that was just approved. But anyway. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Um so did you go on which what were you gonna say? You were you started looking into it?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Well, I was excited about the topic, but then when I started getting into it, I I'm not gonna lie to you. It's like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

It was kind of depressing. Well, yeah, because you know, we can see how we surmise at the end, but it's kind of like if you're patriotic, you are deemed one party. And if you're not exactly how they want you to be, then you're not patriotic. And I think that's bullshit. I love my country just as much as anyone else, but that doesn't mean I have to love everything that's going on in the country.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Right. So if you're expecting us to MAGA out on you and be like boom, boom, rah-rah, I would tune out right now. Um I mean, I love so far. Well, I can't say that. I do love living in Alpina, Michigan and the United States, but I think that we too, even though people don't want to hear this, are uh in you um just immersed in propaganda.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Um, in that we look through a capitalistic lens in the world.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

It's not diverse enough, I think. I've never thought that. Right. But it's not I'm not sure. It's a pretty cool place to live. No, it's not. And it's better than it was, but it can be better.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

It's a here, uh I guess it says um it says, you know, my notes. Um freedom, opportunity, innovation, democracy, and resilience. Democracy is a little on the shaky side.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

It's not the fence right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

But then you got an empire, exploitation, propaganda, consumer addiction, and decline disguised as progress. We're trying to say that the big thing late, and I know this is kind of related, but it not really, like the progress in the United States, and you know, you you you go back way back, the wheel, fire. Then you go to you know, move ahead to railroad. I mean, I'm positive back then people were like, oh, they're building a railroad via my property.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I'm sure there was uh angst against anything that's new is hard for people to accept.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yes, and and now we have um this shows the progress of the United States data centers.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I mean, there's the one in Utah that's bigger than Manhattan. That's and the the the community voted against it, and yet Kevin O'Leary and Mr. Dickhead Bald Billionaire, that podcast with no pants on, pushed it through anyway. I mean, so you're not listening to the people. No. Because you're trying to say it's gonna be good for the community, it's gonna bring jobs, but it's also gonna destroy the water supply. Um but that's so people can look at cat memes on their phone.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yes, and so you can put you know hats on monkeys. So, well, let's go, let's go back.

A Fast Tour Of US History

SPEAKER_01 6:29

America's 250th birthday. So that's a long time. So it was founded in 1776. I mean, formally founded. That's when the Continental Congress adopted the Declaration of Independence. Remember that?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, I was there where you declaration of Independence. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

So that happened in 1776. Then in 1787, the U.S. Constitution was written in Philadelphia. Now, they took their time and really worked on it. They didn't agree on everything, but they compromised on a lot of stuff, and that helped.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Very impressive.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

It is, really, because it wasn't even um, I mean, they were just a bunch of you know, well, white guys, but still there were just a bunch of guys, you know, getting together talking about it, yeah, figuring it out. Then though we did have a boom, boon, in 1803 when we got the where we uh the US did the Louisiana Purchase. That doubled the size of the United States right there. And what a great deal that ended up being.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Did it?

SPEAKER_01 7:43

The Louisiana Purchase?

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I think we should get another one.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Well, we're gonna get Cuba and Greenland. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

We have Venezuela too, don't forget. 1846 to 1848 was the Mexican-American War, and it ended with the US acquiring the Southwest. So, yeah. I know how I feel about that. Uh, you know, well, it's like, yeah, that made our country bigger, but we took it away from somebody who already had it, you know. And like Native Americans were already there, or first people, yeah. Mexicans. Um, there's people there living their lives.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

But we just were like, sorry, beat it. Hit the trail of tears, loser. Yeah. That's basically what it was.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

So, and then we got our payback in the Civil War, which was from 1861 to 65.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

That was pretty horrible.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It was very horrible.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

How many people died?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

More than combined World War II, one I don't have a number in front of me, but it was a scary number. Um and it ultimately gave us the preservation of the union and the up uh um it abolished slavery, kind of, you know, on paper it did, but yeah, it in real life did it? Not really.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Oh, I got it here.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

What's the number?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

620,000. It's estimated to 750,000.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

And then you think of all the people who lost limbs, who um, because they didn't have, you know, it wasn't like a medic. When you went to the medic, he was like, no, take take the leg. It was like more they had to do it then.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

More than World War I, World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan all together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Crazy. And we were fighting ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

I can see it happening again, though.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, I hope not. So then we we but if it does, you will get paid out by that slush fund. Well, I'm gonna keep bringing it up. Retribution.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

What was it? Not retribution sound. Anyway, a few years after the Civil War, though, 1869. No, I think this was a good thing. Some people would probably say it's a dick thing. Um, the transcontinental railroad is complete. So from the Atlantic to the Pacific, you can get on a train, cruise it out.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Cruise it out.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

It sounds fun.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

It does.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Um, but with that, brought, guess what, more people to ruin the countryside.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

So And workers were exploited.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Oh my gosh. The Asian population that was brought over specifically to make the railroad. It was, I wonder what that number is. Do you have that number? I don't have that number. It's a high number and they weren't treated well.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

But you know, we sound like little bitches because we like riding on trains, but we don't like the fact that people got exploited and the environment got fucked by it. We can't have it all. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

But we did.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah. But that's the great thing about America, is we can talk about this.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

And not be and not be arrested.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Well they might be coming for us. So then in the late 1800s, after 1869, that started the Gilded Age, which uh sparked uh rapid industrialization, urbanization, and a massive wave of immigration. So all the Asians happened. So industrialization, you know, you could argue each one individually are the hero dick. True, railroads, industrialization gave us, you know, progress and jobs and money, but it also took away, you know, um, it made rich people richer.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. Um kind of like now.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Kind of like now. You had the people poorer and a reliant on the rich people. It also took away natural um uh areas and resources.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, JP Morgan, modernized, but uh they're accused of monopolies. Yeah. Crushing unions, exploiting workers, influencing the government. That doesn't build enormous concentrations of wealth. Good for them. But workers had 12 to 16 hour shifts, child labor.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

There was no union. There was there was Yeah, there was just kids working. And then urbanization, so you had to go, you didn't have any money on the farm. So if you wanted some money to live, you got to go to the city. And guess what? The city conditions weren't that great.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

You know, there's you lots of people living in tenements and just there's no plumbing. It's it wasn't great. It wasn't like it is on the movies.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

And I have to add, you know, people will say, and that's early, I know, industrialization, but it eventually created the so-called middle class, right? Yeah. Eventually. Was that a good thing, or is that just a different form of um I don't want to use slavery, that's not the right word, but um it put people in this perpetual state.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

You owe the company store all the time. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

You're always trying to make ends meet, buy things. You you got in this rat wheel, the mouse wheel, whatever you call it, hamster wheel. And I think a lot of people get stuck in that. And that's what were created.

unknown 13:30

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

By the middle class.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Yeah. The middle cat.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

It's what you want versus what you really need.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Aaron Ross Powell A new kind of captivity. There we go. But it's cho by choice, I suppose. And that's what the people with the money will tell

Immigration And Who Gets In

SPEAKER_00 13:45

us.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Aaron Ross Powell Well, the other Asian that we were talking about that certainly is hero or dick is uh um then there was a massive wave of immigration. And I am just a big proponent of immigrants because I think because you're born in one place, does that mean you have to live there the rest of your life?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

No, it shouldn't. It shouldn't, and that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Are those immigrants behind me walking?

SPEAKER_00 14:13

It had to be. We're all from somewhere, right? We are.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Well, that's the point. We're all from somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

And when do we get to the point where we pick what kind of immigrants?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Well, we just approved, we meaning the administration that we currently have, just approved today or yesterday the admittance of 10,000 white people from South Africa will be able to enter our country. And I mean, it specifically said, I don't know why it said it, but it said white. No way South America South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Oh, you know, well, it's because white people don't do bad things. Oh, and I just name one white person that's done something bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

That hasn't. And it, you know, I'm not opposed to them coming, but let people, man, there's so many people who need to come here just to get away from their horrible country. And I hope I never have to know or have to feel like my country sucks so much that I need to leave, but kind of getting there.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I I'm I might have an escape plan.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Well, because you got to think this this trajectory we're on, and we're still a young country, but we're kind of at a weird point, you know, where this isn't true for everybody, because I think there's still a lot of people that think they're connected to the earth, to nature, to doing good things. But we are getting more and more like bamboozled by technology and billionaires and this images and these five-second attention spans of like it is destroying the fabric of a lot of good. It's creating a lot of good things, but at the same time, and I sound just like an old codger now, but it's scary because that movie Idiocracy.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Oh my gosh. If you haven't watched Idiocracy, you should. It's very stupid, but it's very it's totally stupid. But when I first watched it, and it had already been out for a little while because it's old. Um, I was like, I can totally see this happening. And now it's it's it is happening, right? Not as as extreme as that, but uh, it's getting there. Same with the handmade stale.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah. And then I think, do we is it again, I'm like, is it really happening? Or are we just made aware of all kinds of shitty stuff? And there's always been the same amount of shitty stuff. It's just different now, and we are aware of it because we're connected.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Well, that's true. That I I think that's absolutely true. We didn't used to know everything as it happened. We or at all. Yeah. At all. There used to be some not even secrecy, but um I'm not sure what the correct word is, but some privacy like to the government stuff that was being done. I don't need to know everything they're doing. Sure. If they're if some as long as there's checks and balances. I mean, yeah, I don't need to know if there's a a hit on Fidel Castro in the 60s. You know, but I think now we know everything, be it true or not, and we know it immediately, and there's no filter, and if it's not true, there's no going back. Oh, hey, what I said yesterday that wasn't true. People don't do that.

unknown 17:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

You know, they just let it rhyme. But I going back to immigrants, I say, yes, we need to vet them in that no, uh, we don't want to let them murderers or rapists, convicted people. Yeah, yeah. But there's plenty of people who aren't white who deserve to come to our country. And I know some people who are more deserving of that than people who are born here. All right, that's all I'm gonna say about immigrants right now. Unless you want to add something.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

No, I mean people are people. You're good or you're bad, or you can turn bad or you can turn good. I mean, obviously, you don't want to just let any old person in. There should be a way to get into the country.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I think there was. I mean, we weren't just I well, I shouldn't say that. When there was a massive wave in the early uh 1900s, late 1800s, we were like, oh, we need workers, you know, and people needed to leave their countries because of a famine or for whatever reason, there's war, or you know, they just wanted to do better.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

But I think you should have a checkpoint, and it's a path to citizenship. You come in, you get in, you get your social security number, boom.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

If you ever get a chance, look at the what the um a person who is trying to be a US citizen, the test that they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Oh, it's way hard. No, we wouldn't pass it. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

I used to, when I was tutoring, I would help people uh study for that. I always I I didn't know half of the questions, half of the answers. I know all the questions. So yeah, that's um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I don't know. I just met so many pieces of shit that actually live in this country. It's like, really? You're gonna I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

And I think a lot of people just don't know how good they have it.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Like go to wherever and see how if you could survive a week there. Right. You can. Right.

Wars, Power, And The Cold War

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So after that late 1800s, we had um a period of uh global power and conflict, like from 1917 through 1945. So we're talking about wars. In in the uh 1917 through 18, the U.S. entered World War I. And in 29, the stock market crashed, triggering the Great Depression. And then in 1941, um, there was an attack on Pearl Harbor, and so we, the US, entered World War II. Um, and it ended in 1945, the war did. We emerged as a global superpower, and and also that was a time where kind of introduction to the atomic age, but being I don't I don't think we're that global superpower anymore. People used to come to us for help or to guidance or for whatever, and we just don't have that reputation anymore.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

No, it's our reputation's been sullied a bit. But you know, when you think about it, the United States has gone through, like many nations, like a lot of challenging times. Oh, you know, and if you look at it like a family, you got some family members, you just don't want to be around at Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

No boy, no.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

That you know, you get through it, and we've gotten through it. You know, like think of 9-11, and you're not there yet. Right. No, I'm not that stock market crash, people suffering wars. I mean, holy cow, the stuff that we've gone through as a country.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

So even so when you get to the next era, the 1947 through 91, which is uh kind of a civil rights Cold War era, um in the Cold War really shaped U.S. policy, leading to conflicts in Korea and Vietnam. We're fighting communism, you know, we really then we thought we were the superpower of the world, so we had to police the world. And I don't I'm not exactly for that either. But um, you know, I think that our democracy and in other countries that have a democracy and a voting public. I don't think every country can do that.

unknown 22:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

At least not right now. Yeah, it'd be great if they could, but not not every country maybe is cut out for that. I mean, honestly, China's doing fine and they're not really doing that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

So then you come to 1954 through 68, which is when uh the civil rights movement legally ended segregation and expanded voting rights. And that sentence, when I wrote it down, I thought, how much of that has just been rescinded in the past, you know, five years.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Right. And for what?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And for what? I think of all the good that um uh my parents' generation did when in the 60s, uh, you know, to fight for women's rights, reproduction rights, uh, voting rights, and segregation. And, you know, a lot of that's gone now. It's like it never even happened. And I don't know it's be if it's because people got used to having it, and so they're like, well, it'll always be there until somebody takes it away.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Could be. And we're distracted. People are so distracted with their phones and technology, and they're not as engaged.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

They're not paying attention.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

But I go back and I'll say because of things like that, technology, some folks are more engaged because you can reach more people and have more messaging.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

But that, yeah, that works for and against people.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

But wasn't the uh the separate but equal? Wasn't that the whole thing at the Founding Fathers? Yeah, yeah. But they weren't there there was slavery when it was oh fucking pisses me off.

Moon Landing Then AI Arms Race

SPEAKER_01 23:48

So what happened in 1969?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Isn't that um It was a big kind of climax to the whole 60s?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Detroit was pretty bad, eh?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I was actually that was I think the were the riots in 68 or 69?

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Probably 68.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

I think it's 68. The one I was going for wasn't when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. That was such a huge deal.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Was there a moon landing?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

No, I'm kidding. I was just gonna say, if you believe it, it was a big deal. Um and it should be a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Oh, it's a it was a race to the moon, too. It was a race to the moon.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Well, the Soviets were in space first. We got to the we got to the moon first.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Well, and then too, I'm just paralleling that I keep talking about the whole data center thing. Right now it's like an arms race because we're trying to get the power of AI in the United States. And so that's why you're seeing this race to develop all these data centers, just like there was the race to space. It's pretty pretty fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

It's comparable.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

We want to be first.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

We do.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

You don't want other people to have power, technology, influence. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Mm-hmm. It's best uh for some people if they are the only ones with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Because all the other people that want power are evil.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Uh evil.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

And you know what I mean? It's weird. Like we think that if someone else has power, they're gonna use it badly or in a bad way on us. But when we have power, we would never do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Oh, we would never do that. Yeah, we would.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

We've never done anything bad.

Digital Age Surveillance After 9-11

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Then we get into the digital age and the modern era, which is 91 to the present day. In the 90s was the dot-com boom. Wow. Tech revolution, widespread internet adoption, which I never got it till well, I guess it was the late 90s when we finally got internet at home. And then uh 9-11 changed uh a lot of things. Um, you know, it said uh online, um, what the article I was reading had the headline of terrorist attacks reshape national security. And I guess it, yeah, it did. It changed everything.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

The government can prevail their citizens.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

And that they still, you know, adopt it and it's you know 25 years later.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

But 25, yeah. It helps catch serial killers. It does. Oh my god, you ever watch Stateline? It's always the phone, they can always get into someone's phone.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

That's true, that's true. They can get in the phone that they're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

And now they're catching on to people if they do bad things and their phone stays in one spot because that means it didn't because that's they're trying to hide it in it.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

That means nobody's gonna leave their phone at home.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Well, no, but then people do it on yeah, yeah, they do it on purpose, thinking they're not gonna get caught.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah, we do need to do another episode on we cannot serial killers since you're obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Or on surveillance.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

On surveillance, if it's hero or I don't. Uh okay you know, I don't own a pen. Um so then in 2008, Barack Obama was elected the first African American president during the Great Recession. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Remember everybody saying that?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Oh thanks, Obama.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

That's what it was. Thanks, Obama. Trying to get everyone out there.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Uh bailing people out. Uh, I think he did a great job myself, and I miss him very much.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

He's still around.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

He's still. He was on uh late night a couple last week, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Once they get the uh constitution changed, he'll be able to run again.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah, he will. I wish Michelle would run. She'd too smart.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

It will be interesting to see who's gonna be the next. I mean, after Trump wins again, like we'll be after him.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

He said he was a third-term.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, he's a third-term.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

So in 2020, the nation dealt with the COVID-19 pandemic and rapid AI advancements, and that's going on today. COVID's still going on too. Now it's just like a regular flu, but man, it wiped a lot of people out. If you look at the deaths from COVID, hundreds of thousands worldwide. Truly was a worldwide pandemic, and that nobody really knew anything about it. So we aired on the side of caution, even though we had uh an administration at that time that told us to drink bleach. But um did you uh no, I did before that.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Um You already were doing it.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

That's why you're so hoping that it wasn't cool. Um but to have that pandemic and say stay home and don't go anywhere, don't do anything. It was really you could I equated it to being four. And it was true. It was like you couldn't do anything, you can go anywhere, you couldn't buy your food you like. Um I also because I live in a nice house in a nice area and have a yard and stuff, it's like, oh you everybody stay home. Like, oh, okay. Yeah, see you in a few months.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

We actually not enjoy the like I didn't want people to be sick, but really enjoyed being home, doing whatever.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Stick to your core group of people. Okay, I only want to see them anyway, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

That's an ideal situation.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

It really is. I'm sorry, we can't come because of COVID. Yeah, so as bad as it was, it was yes, it was a huge dick, but uh it was kind of a hero, too.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

It was.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

And it it it taught us a lot of lessons. Yes, people can work from home successfully.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Um, yes, you can have nice takeout containers that are reusable. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

It changed things for the better. I think it made people think more. I hope it did. I mean, not for the better. I did again the whole you don't want people to do.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Right. I do yeah, I didn't I don't I still don't wish anyone to die from it, but people did because of their choices that they made. And so, you know, think about your choices.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Or the choices other people made.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah, yeah, that's true too.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Oops, sorry.

COVID Lessons And Rights Backsliding

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So um, like I said, as I was going through that timeline, I just thought, God, you know, any improvements and steps forward, a lot of them are just gone and and gone just in the past few years. You mean as far as the voting uh yeah, specifically voting and choices and women's rights and uh immigration and just all of a lot of that.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

And

Patriotism, Flags, And Honest History

SPEAKER_01 30:50

most people are proud patriots, but many feel they are losing democracy. And I wouldn't even call myself a patriot because it's got a whole other implication on it now. Right. You know, I remember what after January 6th, um, when the the people stormed the the Capitol, um, I had a friend who said, I don't even feel like I can put out an American flag right now because it means I'm on a side I don't support. But that's what And it's an American flag. We're all American, even the people that you don't like. And I think the best, not just president, but public people who are elected say and not just say it, but live it. You didn't vote for me, but I'm still your representative. I still represent you. I don't think it's like that now. Right. Whoever you voted for, if if you voted for them and they know it, you come first, you get money out of the slush fund first. Yep. And that's how it is. You're not the the um for everybody, you're just for the people who like you. Well, that's not how the world works.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

It's working like that now.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Well, it's not working. No, but that's all they're doing. That's how it's operating, but it's not how it's working.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

And um, when I tried to look at the White House website, you know, uh a year ago Trump issued an executive order, ironically, that was called, I'm quote marks in the air, restoring truth and sanity to American history, unquote. Claiming that revisionists had to cast their uh founding principles and historic milestones in a negative light. Well, you know what? History ain't always pretty, buddy. No. And it's you ask anybody in history, and they're even if it things work out on one side, they don't on the other side. I'm thinking of, you know, slave owners versus slaves. And no, it's not pretty that they sold slaves, and but that's what fucking happened.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

So that's the history that we have. You can't change it, you can't just say, you know, well, let's just talk about the flowers, let's not talk about the weeds. Yeah, oh my god, I just made up that quote.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

I think that was pretty good. That could be on a t-shirt. Let's not, yeah, I like that. Oh, I had write it down. I had t-shirt designs to show you too.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Oh, well, we can look at them. So, depending on your viewpoint, you know, like I said, if you're a plantation owner, you have one viewpoint. If you're a slave, you have a different perspective. And it's history isn't always pretty.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah, and we have to embrace the ugliness. You just have to, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah. It's it happened. It got us where we are today. Let hey, hey, let's learn from that. I don't think that happens anymore.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Well, I I I hope it does. I think there's more people that get it and aren't out for themselves than you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

I hope so. I hope so. Yeah, so all that being said, I do have faith and common sense in people. Not every person, certainly. No. And hopefully we won't vote those people in. But even, you know, on the street, people who aren't um, you know, running for everything. I hope we're all kind to each other, even if we don't agree with each other.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Sure.

The Real Pros And Cons

SPEAKER_01 34:34

So the biggest advantages living in US, I would say, uh, you have economic mobility. You know, there's no caste system. If I'm born poor, yeah, I have a harder time, but I can probably still become rich. Or if you want to uh you know uh measure it by money, by dollars. There's not a caste system. Tougher. No shit. No, it is, but um there's also a massive consumer market. If you want to buy something, you come to them. US. Um there is diverse multicultural society overall. Yes, there is.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

And we've made a ton of advancements in medical fields and we have education, world-class education, um, varied uh geographic climates and charm.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

So what I probably my favorite thing about the US is that there's 50 states and they're all like a separate country. They're all so cool and so different, and there's something charming and interesting about every single state. Yep. Yeah. So I do like that. And the climates vary. I mean, you got Hawaii and Florida, you got Alaska, you got Maine, you got Michigan, which today I walked into my meeting before this. I had on a winter coat, sunglasses, and I would have an umbrella.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

So I added on. Is that when you walked out, you were in shorts or the TV?

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I walked out and I just uh I was carrying all of them. And we do, as of today, we have democracy. Let's hope we can keep it. The disadvantages, you know, okay, we have world class education, but man, it costs a lot. A lot.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

It does.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

A lot.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

There's been uh activity though in states on the state level to provide at least two years of free education.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

There has been.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Isn't that crazy? Oh, like the funeral. I mean, look at though. Do you think they're all outside smoking? That's like fucking 30 people.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

No, probably the funeral's over and they're gonna do the the shooting, the shooting, which we've gotten at before. So let me just wrap this up. So biggest disadvantages at high cost, there's a very weak social safety net like health care. We have health care available, and it's probably great. If you can afford it, if you don't have insurance, and even if you do have insurance, one medical emergency can break you.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah. And it seems like the insurance companies drive your health, what you can get done, when you can get it done, rather than when you need it.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

When you need it, yeah. So it sounds almost like that's a problem that universal healthcare has, but we have it and we have to pay for it too. Uh medical bills are the number one cause of personal bankruptcy.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

No shit.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Yeah. I just want to do that.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

And next is gonna be um student loans.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Education, yeah, student loans. So anything you want to add to the biggest advantages or disadvantages?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Well, I think for a long time the United States led in a lot of categories.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Maybe not as much now, but I still have hope. I mean, I think that there's a lot of good things going on. I think the younger generation does understand it. I think you're getting a lot of people that are like, hey, we can do better. Um it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

And I'm not anti-American either.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

No, no. But people who and that's uh like you said, that's why you love your country because I can still say it.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Even if you're just like with family.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

You can say to your family member, what the are you doing? Get your head out of your ass. And you still get together, give them a hug, move on with you know, most people. But anyway.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

So yes, I say hero for staying with democracy and being free. Um, but don't be a dick, people. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

And uh go well, and I think too, if you look at it, it's the same with people. Sometimes you gotta do dickish things to be a hero.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

You do, you gotta choose how bad the things are in this. But all those Carnegie and all of those guys, they had to do dick things to to have enough money to give away libraries to Carnegie Libraries.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

To employ people, to employ people.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

But you when you weigh it out, you gotta be, you know, it's gotta be even up or more hero than and less dick.

Fast Five Icons Hero Or Dick

SPEAKER_01 39:11

All right. Do you uh uh I have top five things. Do it, let's do it. And they're for fast five, they're things that people associate with the US. Okay, so tell me a hero or dick. So the first one is is gonna be hero in anyone's eyes, it's national parks. And we didn't even talk about that in 250 years, and we have so many beautiful national parks. Hero for sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Hero.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Yeah, you can say it, but I already said it for you.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Hero, hero, hero.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

So the next one that um we are known for is Hollywood and Global Entertainment. Uh, movies, TV, music. I mean, US sets the pace and and the rules. So I think it's mostly hero, although sometimes when I see single people buying up all the media stuff, some of this stuff is like really dickish, but everything isn't for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Okay, how about iconic comfort food and portion sizes? So USA is known for barbecue, hamburgers, apple pie, but they're all an extra large. I'm still saying my bureau for uh number four is tech innovation. Yeah, well, for good uh I don't know, it can be a dick too. You know, sometimes not all AI is good. Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, just like a a ruler, a stick. You can use it for measuring or you could smack somebody with it. It just depends how you use it. You know what I'm saying? Not really.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

The last one is the concept of freedom and opportunity. So people still think of the American dream and it's still longed for. If you're you know in a different country where there's whatever and you're, you know, shoveling out your living, maybe you do think, man, if I could just go to wherever where the streets are paved with gold in the US.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

That's the White House area, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Well, now it is so um I think that people, even in the in the US, still think the American dream is here.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

It is.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Or and is possible.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

It's just getting a little I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

I don't know. Home ownership is not easy right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

So No. No. How are they gonna do how are kids gonna do that?

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Maybe they're not gonna own homes.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

They're gonna they're gonna they do. They wait longer, a lot longer, where um uh you you know could have um had a house bought by 25, say. I think I was 30 when we bought you know our first house, where now they're you know 35.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

So it just takes a while.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

It'll be all right.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Okay. You say so.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

We won't be here for 300 anyway.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Well, we won't, but you know, you might leave some people behind.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

They have to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Do your own podcast. All right, on that note.

Final Thoughts And Goodbye

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Oh, we yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I guess that's it. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

That's all we have.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Is there anything else to say?

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Well, there's a lot you could say, but let's leave it unsaid.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

All right.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

Okay, thanks everybody. Thanks, everyone. Bye.