Setting Up the Antecedents for Yourself w/Tabitha Kucera

Content Warning: This episode does include a discussion of mental illness, depression and suicide.

In this episode I am joined by Tabitha Kucera from Chirrups and Chatter for a lively conversation about mental health, business management, and setting up the antecedents for yourself.  The episode teems with laughter while tackling weighty topics, such as mental illnesses, disabilities, imposter syndrome, and burnout. We discuss the balance between maintaining a successful business and prioritizing your mental health.

Tabitha shares her unique journey from being a veterinary technician to becoming a specialist in animal emotional wellbeing and behavior. She offers practical advice on how to reframe our understanding of stress in business, highlighting the importance of setting boundaries, nurturing emotional well-being, and mitigating burnout. This episode is bound to leave you with a renewed perspective on managing mental health alongside your business.

Where you can find Tabitha:
Tails from a Vet Tech Podcast
Chirrups&Chatter.com
@chirrupsandchatter

Transcript

[00:00:07] Hello and welcome back to the Leashed Mind Podcast, mental Health and Dog Training. I'm your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, I have a very awesome, very fun conversation with Tabitha Kucera from Chirrups and Chatter. Now, I realize when I say that, I do these intros and I say that like, oh, the conversation was so fun, but really. 

[00:00:29] This conversation is so fun. There is so much laughter throughout the episode. and I think that helps balance out everything we're talking about because we do discuss managing your business, and prioritizing your mental health. Sure. But also talking about mental illness, talking about disabilities, talking about ways that we can. 

[00:00:49] Set up our businesses in a way that we can still prioritize those factors and finding little things, even if it's just like taking time to go get a snack during your day [00:01:00] because you know the amount of times that we overlook ourselves, overload ourselves with work. Sometimes it's really easy to run into that and just keep the momentum going and not even notice the burnout happening. 

[00:01:15] So we really touch on that. We talk about, imposter syndrome like, we do in most episodes. But I want to note that while , a lot of these episodes we do talk about, boundaries and imposter syndrome and prioritizing your mental health. Sure. We talk about that in every episode, but every single guest I have on, they have a different perspective to share. 

[00:01:38] And so Tabitha's is, while very, on point and very eye-opening of some things we may not consider, factors that stress us out in our business. Just the humor that she just bleeds into everything that she shares. I just, ah, this is such awesome conversation. And while it is long, you're gonna walk [00:02:00] away from this conversation and just feel a little lighter because, a lot of the times we all feel the same way and the overwhelm is there. 

[00:02:08] Just because we see successful people. And, versions of success are all different, but just because we see these people talking at conferences , and talking on a platform, it doesn't mean that they don't encounter it the same way we do, and they don't struggle with their mental health the same way we do. 

[00:02:25] They have just worked to put the puzzle pieces into place so that they can prioritize themselves and so their business can work for them. A lot of the times it is trial and error and finding out what works, and so I hope you find some benefit in this conversation and I hope that it helps spark you finding ways to find the puzzle pieces that work for you. 

[00:02:47] So I'll stop talking. Let's just, you know, get into the episode. 

[00:02:51] I have Tabitha from Chirrups and Chatter here with me. Tabitha, I am so excited to have you on the podcast. I've been counting down the days. Thank you [00:03:00] so much for joining me. I am so stoked. Anybody that knows me knows you're gonna hear about mental health in some, for humans and animals in some aspect. 

[00:03:08] I really want to learn more about how just you got started and where that, how it just kind of led you to this path originally. Yeah. So long story short, cause I'm sure we could all talk about our paths forever, right? 

[00:03:22] Especially now that we're older and reflecting in all that older people thing. so I am a veterinary technician, and I worked in general practice as well as animal welfare, so various shelters and farm sanctuaries. because you guys, we can't just see one species, right? and in that time I started, I actually started with wanting to handle the animals I work with in a more compassionate way. 

[00:03:46] so, and I met Sophia Yin, who is amazing and is still one of my biggest inspirations, even though she isn't with us anymore. Um, she is in spirit. but I saw her lecture once, which is why CE is so important. You never know where you're gonna [00:04:00] find, um, right. So I saw her lecture once. And I was like, I planned my lectures out the like way ahead of time and I was gonna do her one lecture and then go to others cuz we're nerds and that's what we do. 

[00:04:09] And I was like, I'm staying in this room. I am not leaving. She was speaking all day and then that was really mind blowing where I was like, what was she talking about? Low stress handling. Oh, oh, okay. Right up your alley. Yeah. So like obviously that's one of my biggest things that I teach and do now for a living professionally. 

[00:04:25] But um, that was my kind of first introduction into hey Tabitha, that traditional restraint that you were taught, there's a lot more to that. And handling something I always say is a skill, right? And all of animal welfare. So that met all of it. We don't necessarily treat it as a skill. so that's how I started just understanding how can I reduce the stress and fear? 

[00:04:46] Of the animals I work with from a handling standpoint and every interaction I have with them, which is behavior of course, but I wasn't there yet. and then I started, that kind of led me into getting more into the emotional wellbeing of my before Fear Free was the thing [00:05:00] which I love fear free, but addressing the emotional wellbeing of the patients I worked with. 

[00:05:04] So then I started just kind of like doing some behavior lectures, reading some books. and then, cuz I work with cats and dogs and I would youth like meet a lot of cats and euthanize them on the same day. Oh God. And that was really hard. But also I looked at the why's even back then and right caregivers were really suffering as well. 

[00:05:23] So this wasn't like a malicious person. It was by the time we recognized our cat was sick, they were so sick that the most humane thing to do was to let them go. Right. Um, And I was like, Ugh, why is all this happening? And then I started looking more into cat behavior. And as a vet tech, I'm gonna be honest, I have more access to resources than maybe some training professionals there. 

[00:05:44] True, But also the general public. And guys, there was nothing. And what year was that? Like, oh, that was like, oh my god, I feel like a little baby. That was, it's 2020. That was probably like 2013. okay. So, I mean, not that way 10 years ago. Yeah. [00:06:00] So that's a jump though. There was a few, but it was such basic foundation. 

[00:06:03] Thankfully, I, I had that going on with my veterinary technician stuff. Um, and that was really eye opening to me. I was like, oh my, and then all these like pieces came together in my brain and I was like, so I'm gonna learn everything about cats. I'm gonna be the person. It's on my shoulders. Because well kind, I mean, I think we little Yeah. 

[00:06:22] Talk that way. Right. And, because I was like, no wonder there's such a lack of understanding about, cuz also as someone that I did low stress, fear free handling with cats and dogs and I got a lot of pushback even from my colleagues about cats versus the same thing with the dog, both in the same relaxed body language. 

[00:06:39] Interestingly enough though, I would hear more often that cat's gonna bite your face, which is not the case. Cats, there's a lot of body language. But also that was, everything started to make sense. I was like, we don't get a lot of body language resources for cats. Um, there's very few up to date evidence-based resources or behavior in cats. 

[00:06:58] It's the, even the stuff that was [00:07:00] fairly better than the other stuff was kind of foggy, uh, I could say. Mm-hmm. Where I can understand how the general public may read this and not be able to pick out the awesome parts and just kind of critically think and practically apply. Understandably. So, that's what led me down my path of. 

[00:07:14] Cats. and then of course dogs as well. So then I, decided I'm gonna get my VTS in behavior, which is, whew. A very long in-depth process. It's veterinary technician specialty. 

[00:07:26] I think there's 29 in the world right now. so holy cow now, and that you have to get quite a few hours. So that led me down to going, getting my KPA CTP. Oh, okay. Getting my CCBC through IAABC so everything kind of like meshed and rolled together Yes. To, to go to like the end goal of what you wanted. 

[00:07:45] Yeah. And now I'm here, which is, we were just talking about before, how bazaro, like when you think about it, it just happens. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like it, was like, A year ago where I was that tech who was just really into, decreasing the fear and stress and handling animals in a more safe way, [00:08:00] not only for them, but for me and my staff. 

[00:08:01] so it's really interesting, but that's kind of what got me down this beautiful path of behavior. But I, that wasn't too long of a story. I'm impressed because I mean, it takes people quite a while to explain their story. So you summed that up very fast. So just thank you. Thank you. Give you a little r plus, but I, that's so awesome that that just kind of led to one thing after the other and then it just kind of was a happy snowball of it just rolled into the same thing, and that's huge. 

[00:08:29] Um, I could talk with you about cats all day because now that I have my kitten, I'm just like, I have so much respect for people that, lean in more to cat behavior and cat training. Cause it is a whole other thing. 

[00:08:40] I mean, we, we train our spouses. It's the same thing. Yes. You know, humans are always learning. I always like, just like animals, which I try to be aware of and be better cuz we're all doing our best. I know my husband and I are both, we have training backgrounds and I'm like, so how could we reinforce that better? 

[00:08:56] Is there a way we could set up my antecedents better? Honey, my partner, bless him, [00:09:00] he always says, you would never say that to a client. Oh yeah. I'm like, I love you so much. Thank you for checking me. You are correct. so, but you get the unfiltered version, so, right. And, but to be fair, that's something I am, I am so thankful for my partner and he's a big reason how I can do all the things I do and how I've gotten to where I've gotten when I've wanted to quit the VTS process, for example. 

[00:09:21] and he is something, something I've been trying to be better about the last few years is I give myself, I love giving myself so much to everyone else, but then my husband gets the zero Tabitha, and that's not cool. so it's something I'm trying to be more aware of. Like, yes, I just spoke at six conferences and I loved it, but I need to come home and I need to be there for him and listen to him and be the partner. 

[00:09:44] Yeah. Yes. Because he's been so amazing and it's, it's a team effort. So I, I'm trying, I sound like I'm making myself sound like a horrible wife. I love, I'm just trying to be better. We all do it where we give ourselves to everyone else and then the people that like our best friends and our family and our [00:10:00] partners, we barely have anything left. 

[00:10:01] And that's something that I have been trying to check the last few years. I kind of wanna talk about that a little bit more cuz I feel like, you know, a lot of the times in the industry, and, and some of us, you know, do have training businesses with our spouses, our partners, and then, you know, like I did. 

[00:10:16] and, and, but then a lot of the times we forget that like, oh, that's still my partner and like, we still need to invest in that and separate work from life balance. And I think a lot of times it just, and we get so burnt out with wanting to get ahead, um, your stories, like you've been sharing like small businesses and working so hard and it's just people don't realize that like, there's so much work that goes into it, but then sometimes it kind of just takes over our life and, and it's who we become and it's like, well, I lost myself. 

[00:10:44] I lost who I was to my partner and. Then our mental health depletes. But people, sometimes we don't notice that because we get so caught up in next best thing, let's get ahead, accomplish this goal that we forget to really celebrate and still sit in those moments. Does that make sense? No, definitely. I think [00:11:00] that's something, again, I'm, I'm a people pleaser, which I love about myself, but I gotta start to set some boundaries. 

[00:11:06] Like, I, like even the necessarily, like this is a label, right? Like the negative personality traits. Like some people would be like, oh, you're a people pleaser. That's horrible. I love that. I'm that way, but I can't overextend myself like I have been forever. And also I need to make sure that, like you said, I have energy for my partner and my friend, like my very close friends. 

[00:11:28] and that can be really challenging and sometimes you're not even aware of it. At this point in my career, I've gotten down that. That working, working, working, going, going, going, that's kind of my baseline, which is not healthy. but that's my baseline. And my partner has, we've kind of learned a better way to communicate and he essentially checks me. 

[00:11:45] And I think for us, that works. And by check me, he might say, Hey, so you've been home for a day since this conference, and you, it seems like he's, so, you're still buzzing around and you haven't Yeah. Like, and he's like, it doesn't seem like you're listening to me when I'm talking to you. [00:12:00] So he's not like, wow. 

[00:12:01] right. It, it's more of a like, Hey, let's check in here, reassess. Yes. And then I'm like, Ugh, you were correct. Damn it. Ah. You know, and then with my other friends, like, I honestly set out like a mass text during the last, before my VTS board exams where I sent a mass text out to like my 10 closest friends and said, I am sorry that I have not been available and have maybe been distant. 

[00:12:23] This is what's going on, blah, blah, blah. So just kind of like, I would've not done that three years ago. Right. Yeah. And that really shows just the, well, I think, you know, you just said three years ago I was 2020. That's not that long. Oh yeah, I know. I feel like 2020 really changed. I mean, it changed so many things like it. 

[00:12:42] It could be pages long of the things that it's set to change, but it's just, I feel like a lot of us, our mental health was right here and we had no other choice than to look at it. And I feel like for a lot of us up until 2020, we were just cranking it out. It was hardcore hustle culture for me. [00:13:00] I know I was like that. 

[00:13:01] I ran myself into the ground and then I would be like, why am I snapping at everyone? Why am I fighting with my partner? Why am I losing friends? Why am I running on fumes? And it's just that get ahead hustle culture. And then 2020, And it was like, oh, we need to reevaluate things. 

[00:13:17] And so I'm seeing a lot of people shifting how they're approaching their business, myself included in just. Prioritizing our mental health, working on communication, thinking about how we're articulating things and how someone might interpret it. And just, you know, people giving opinions on someone's post and nitpicking and belittling others who are trying to get ahead in the industry and poo-pooing that. 

[00:13:39] And it's just now it's turned into, I've noticed more people supporting one another, lifting each other up, not having this comparison and like, oh, you copied me and you're doing what I'm doing. Everyone is trying to help each other. Which it wasn't like that three years ago. Yeah. And I'm sure some of us feel like it's not like that now. 

[00:13:57] right. It takes time. Yeah. I mean, I have an [00:14:00] amazing, but there's days where I have such an amazing support group, like of family and friends, but also of colleagues. but my first few years it was, oh, I had no mentors at all. And, also, even now that I have all the support, I still feel alone sometimes. 

[00:14:15] Right, right. And that's something that I think we, we can all recognize. But also the pandemic was, I know I, as anybody who's familiar with my path, I share my mental health journey, very publicly for multiple reasons. one being suicide is very common among my colleagues, uh, in veterinary medicine, but also animal welfare. 

[00:14:35] And then, So mental health, again, not everyone is in a place where they feel comfortable talking about their mental health. Right. To the extent I do. and I used to be ashamed about it and then I started embracing it and I started that legit journey. Like I was kind of on a baby journey before the pandemic. 

[00:14:50] Same with the pandemic. I took it to another level and it hasn't, in the big picture, it's kind of like when a client's, like in the big picture I'm like, what's a year of B [00:15:00] mod for a whole year? a whole life of your cat and dog getting along, right? Like it's nothing. So it's interesting to think about how far I still get weirded out when I see a post from two years ago and how I was really struggling with this thing, but I was trying, and now I'm in this place where I'm, I have that healthy coping mechanism that I was working towards. 

[00:15:17] And essentially I had a breakdown like everyone else in 2020. Yes. All trigger stacked. And I mean, there was just so much, many things. So like you kind of said, I had to really reflect so. I strangely approached myself like I was a patient of mine, a cat or dog. Great. So I wrote down my triggers that I could identify. 

[00:15:35] And then I love that I wrote my enrichment cause I create enrichment plans for all my pat or cats and dogs. I say patients, it's a vet me thing. It's just, it's and I was like, oh shit. So like I have like new fucking enrichment. Cool, cool. I wonder I won. And a lot of these triggers are things I have some control over. 

[00:15:53] So I was like, okay, shape it. Start small. I was like, I know I need a trainer because [00:16:00] working out is helpful and I'm going to need help. Mm-hmm. So I also did a lot of research on trainers because I wanted to make sure I had a personal trainer. I wanted to make sure I found a good fit and I did. And I love her and I still work with her. 

[00:16:12] then I found a therapist, which again, I had to do a lot of work. Oh, it takes time. Yeah. I'm in that boat right now. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, but those are my first steps and then my therapist, we, we talked about, let's start with cuz that's the other thing I think as perfectionists, which a lot of that mad behavior trading people are, you go into it and you're like, I wanna be able to meditate and work out for five hours and like all this stuff and journal and be grateful and Yeah. 

[00:16:39] And breathe. So we're setting ourselves up to fail. Right. Right. We would never do it with cats and dogs we work with, or the animals we work with. So I started with not taking my laptop to bed. Oh. Drinking three cups of water, baby steps, y'all Okay. Don't judge three cups of water a day and eating three times a day. 

[00:16:55] Cuz as a tech, I really had to work to break that habit of only eating once a day, which is not a [00:17:00] healthy thing that we condition in our. In veterinary clinics. so that's where I started. And then I started working out with my trainer once a week. And now I'm running, like I'm running a 50 miler in a month, and oh my God, I've lost 60 pounds. 

[00:17:13] I work out all the time. Like hell. Yeah. And I bet your mental health like that just boosts everything. Better sleep, better mental health. I am so much happier. Like, and then I also got an appropriate diagnosis from a mental health standpoint. So important. Yes. With, and a lot of that I, I always like, I joke, but I say it very seriously. 

[00:17:33] I'm so thankful for my behavior background because yeah, I wanna lean into that. Oh, I've came so far because I love my therapist, for example. Love her, still love her. and I was diagnosed with depression, which is a very general. Vague. I'm not saying it's vague, but let's, it's kind of a fall. All, we all get that answer right, one way or another. 

[00:17:54] Right. and I was prescribed as ssri, which better living through chemistry, I'm all along with. Yeah. Behavior [00:18:00] modification and environmental enrichment, which includes management. Yes. Right. I had no enrichment. So like those, even if I was on meds, it would be very challenging for them to work appropriately, but those meds, so did bring my brain chemistry to a point where I could more easily do those small shaping steps to get started. 

[00:18:15] Just like animal, I mean, it's all the same. Yeah. and then a fe like six months, seven, I can't remember, seven or eight months into the r i I started noticing. Because that's another thing about therapy, right? I'm very aware of my emotions now. Right. Well, and just the, the changes in your body changes in how you process things like you were saying earlier, like you were saying before we start recording, like, I'm ear Oh no. 

[00:18:36] Or maybe it was starting to record. I'm irritable and like, so I'll wake up and I'll be like, I'm so fucking angry. And then I'll, I hate that again. So, or like, I love people like a lot, like I'm an extrovert on another level, y'all. Uh, so I'll be like running in the park and I'm like, I, I could feel like shrugging happening when I see people. 

[00:18:55] So I like call my husband. I'm like, something's wrong. And then I'm like, I might be too tired. I might be [00:19:00] hypoglycemic. Like, I used to never do any of that. And being aware it, oh my gosh, it's been like a. A huge game changer. Um, see, I jump around. This is what we do. Um, oh, oh my God. No, I have something to go off of that, so this is perfect. 

[00:19:13] Oh yeah. So, I started recognizing that, um, it was really challenging for me to be fair. I strongly dislike emails. All of your suggestion and advice would be appreciated. Please bring it to me. I fucking hate emails and I've talked to my therapist. I'm like, I need a positive CER, please help me write a plan because I can't, I just strongly dislike them. 

[00:19:32] But, um, I would sit down to do an email and to be fair, I'm very like on the go. So I'll do five emails and then get up and do something. And that's just me. But I couldn't even like, I was like, dude, this is really hard to write one. And I was like, this is not normal so I started keeping data. Yeah, no tracking it, it like you would with a client. 

[00:19:49] So I started tracking it. Um, legit. And then because again my therapist is great, just like veterinarians are great, behavior consultants are great, but they need the caregivers's data to be able to [00:20:00] help. So, then my therapist, cuz she knows my background so she gives me a lot of textbooks to read cuz she knows I don't want, she just knows. So I read it and I was like, oh shit. so the pre deposed predisposition, like factor type things. My dad had schizophrenia, so the, the likelihood that I could be bipolar from a genetic standpoint was very high. Like all of these things that just how, how common depression is accidentally misdiagnosed or, oh my god, diagnosis, depression, all of this. 

[00:20:30] And I was just like, duh, I have bipolar, don't self-diagnosed. But I just was, it was very duh duh. Right? Like, well, when you have that realization of, okay, I'm not just struggling, you know, out in the ocean without a life preserver, there's actual shit going on and I need to figure it out and set my life up better. 

[00:20:49] Because I feel like a lot of the times we, and I was talking about this another episode, but we, a lot of the times we don't realize that we have something going on underlying and we just keep struggling trying to figure it out and [00:21:00] make it work. And that's a really good point. So something that I think we've all felt. 

[00:21:04] But there were times where I would go, go, go, which is my baseline again, and then I would just be dead. And by dead, I mean guys like extroverted as hell. Me would not look at her phone, I wouldn't get out of bed. And I used to just say, this is exhaustion, which to be fair is very likely based on my workload, which I've gotten better. 

[00:21:23] But, um, but also, I mean, this has been going on for year, like for years and years. It's a cycle. And I got a testing for immune disorders and, and once I got my diagnosis, I was like, oh, that was the down part of the bipolar. I was, I know that sounds, but I was like, oh, but you don't know in the moment. Yeah, I was trying to like, I was like, because also I think as humans we just naturally adapt, which is kind of cool. 

[00:21:46] So I was like, this is just exhaustion. I'm fine. I can't function before. But then if my friend was like, Tabitha, you can't function for four days and your baseline is like high energy. This is, and now I'm like, like you said, it kind of just hits me and it's, it's so then. We [00:22:00] changed my medication to a mood stabilizer, which is a lot more appropriate for my diagnosis. 

[00:22:05] Right. and I haven't had a suicidal like down since, like, I'm not gonna cry, but it's just sick. Like it's so awesome that like I have not had a suicidal like Tabitha can't function thing for four days since starting. And obviously I also have all these healthy coping mechanisms. Right. It's a whole, you know, library of health. 

[00:22:25] I've done a lot of stuff, but Right. I'll, I don't think without my behavior background, which is also why I try to share these stories because not everyone is lucky enough to have our behavior backgrounds Right. But, but hearing from it firsthand from someone in the industry, it's, it's just been, and now again, like I'm the happiest I've ever been. 

[00:22:43] And I, I joked with you earlier, like I. I love being bipolar, which I don't hear many people say. Uh, I think it's a superpower. Um, like I used to be really ashamed and then I was like, I fucking like me. Like I fucking love who I am, and part of that is my crazy high energy. I could [00:23:00] have all these jobs. Yeah. 

[00:23:01] But the downs are very well managed and I have healthy coping mechanisms, so like, I wouldn't wanna, it's who I am. Right. Imagine if it, you didn't have that. Like I, it's like you're kind of, your sparkle would be a little gone, kind of, you wouldn't be as fun and, and, and passionate. Yeah. And I've kind of. 

[00:23:19] Some people, you could tell they're a little weirded out when I say that, but I'm like, that's stigma though. Yeah, facts. Yes. Cuz I'm very comfortable. No, this is such a good segue into this, and like I can totally piggyback on that because I am an open book about mental health too, and, and medication and diagnosis. 

[00:23:36] Like I have tried every S S R I under the sun and it took me finding my, um, psych, and I talk about this a little bit in, um, my episode three where I talk about my A D H D and P M D D. But, it took talking with her and working through her with this and saying like, look like I have all these symptoms. 

[00:23:53] And, and like you said, I was like, am I bipolar? Because, but my symptoms, it, it tracked with my cycle and I [00:24:00] finally started like tracking, like, okay. And, and I literally noticed this again this week. I was like, okay, it's, my cycle is about, you know, 4, 10, 12 days away. I feel a shift. And even my husband, we have enough communication now. 

[00:24:13] He's like, you're angry. Like, why are you so like snappy? And I'm like, oh, the flip switched. Okay, well time to get back on the Prozac this week. And that's how it would be, you know? And I finally have a system with her of, okay, I, I start, you know, my fluoxetine a week before my cycle starts. Cycle starts we're good. 

[00:24:30] But it would, it helps because where my cycle. The week before, I would have those really bad down days. Not get out of bed for like three or four days. Don't wanna look at my phone, I wanna delete Instagram. Yep. Fuck Woof Cultr. Don't wanna do it anymore 

[00:24:45] and I never thought that was a real thing. I did not think PMDD was real because the last eight years I was told by doctors that, you know, I'm just depressed. I'm just highly anxious. Yeah. Um, it's not my cycle. Maybe I just need to get on birth [00:25:00] control. And I'm like, oh, you just wanna do all this to me again. 

[00:25:04] And then gaslighting party. Yeah. Yes. And, and finally finding someone that understood me and was like, no, this is real. Let's do your blood work. And, you know, blood work isn't cheap, but I was just like, I need answers. Got my answers I needed. And she was like, look, you are severely low here, here, and here, and this affects your energy. 

[00:25:21] This affects your brain fog. This affects this. And I'm like, shit, why? I could have had this answer when my symptoms started at 26. I'm almost 33. And I'm like, God. But it's just, we don't know. And, and so we keep trying to climb up the rope and just, you know, it's like oil is coming down the rope and we just keep trying to grab on and it's just everything pushes us down. 

[00:25:42] And being able to get a diagnosis. Not that you need one, right? But it helps provide clarity so that you can get more answers and better set yourself up for success. I always thought I had adhd. Well, no, I was, okay. Let's rewind a little bit here. My, [00:26:00] my mom always told me growing up, she's like, I think I, I mean I have it. 

[00:26:04] Grandma had it. Like I think, you know, I have it. And she was just like, you know, until it affects you, don't worry about it. And I was just like, yeah, mom, whatever. Yeah. And so then I hit 30 and I'm like, maybe she was right. And then, you know, I noticed it more and, and now that I got my diagnosis, I noticed it more in her and I noticed her traits and it's helped our communication cuz I'm able to help her and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 

[00:26:26] Like, and so it's interesting to see that standpoint, but also to. Realize where like I was overwhelmed with work a lot of the time, and it was because I wasn't setting myself up the right way. I was trying to, and I, I do say this in another episode with someone else, that it's just I was trying to force myself to be neurotypical and, and fill these boxes like everyone else does. 

[00:26:46] And my brain just didn't work that way and I didn't realize that. And I think that's where I've made my brain and who I am work for me. Right. And that has been, I'm still not perfect. That's not a thing. No one's [00:27:00] perfect. The amount of growing mentally, physically, however, uh, I have done in the last, again, I really, I've always been on this journey, but I took it to like another level to set myself up for success. 

[00:27:11] It wasn't until 2020, which was not very long ago, and how far I came is still, I still have a lot long way to go cuz this is behavior's a lifelong thing. We know this, right? Yeah. But I'm just reinforced over and over again and I'm like, you're gonna go for that fucking run, Tabitha, because you never feel fucking shittier after fucking God. 

[00:27:29] Right. You know what I mean? But I have a learning history now of enough reinforcement that I, I know that my brain is right, like, or now something that I've also learned to accept. I do have quite a lot of jobs. Like I'm a speaker, I'm a consultant for You're doing a lot. Yeah. Consult with businesses. I work with Fear Free. 

[00:27:45] I get around, um, and I love that person, but. There's also days where, cuz my husband's like again love him. Um, he'd be like, this isn't relaxing. Let's define, let's, right, let's define what relaxing is. And he's like, this isn't, [00:28:00] because when you're, we all can relate to this, right? Like you are like watching tv, but you're so fucking panicked about everything you have to do that you're more stressed than you would be if you were doing said things. 

[00:28:09] So I have learned one thing where I'm like, you were fucking on like you recorded cuz I also have a podcast. I was like, right, you've recorded, so you've recorded three podcasts, you saw two brand new consults, you did a webinar, I'd be exhausted today. You might not do shit in the morning and you're gonna schedule for that. 

[00:28:26] And yes, you're gonna drink coffee and watch UK tv cuz it's my favorite thing. The comedy is my favorite. And just watch YouTube UK stuff. And that's, and I used to shame myself for that and now I'm like, It's, yeah, girl, that's what you have to, like, you guys, I have my little pep talks inside myself. I'm sure we all do. 

[00:28:42] Oh yes. The same. No. Oh my God, that's, that's so important though. And, and learning to offset when you have heavy days, we don't think to do that. That is something I started implementing this year when I do the podcast recording episodes. I've talked about this and my story is plenty, but I need like [00:29:00] a good hour plus after of an episode because I'm just so energized from talking about things. 

[00:29:06] It feeds my soul. But I'm, you need like a, so it's super funny. So when I met my trainer, I told her, cuz she's an ultra runner, I was like, I fuck. Cause I said I set realistic, criteria and goals, right? And I was like, just heads up, love you girl, but I'm not gonna have her fucking run. And then I always liked hiking. 

[00:29:22] Like that was my meditation back. Back in the day, I can't even remember. Uh, but then again, this is another thing I always would say, I don't have time. You do, by the way, just heads up guys. and then I was like, oh, I'll start hiking. I like true crime a lot, so I was like, it wouldn't hurt to be able to run as a woman in the park. 

[00:29:37] so I know that sounds silly. So I started just running a little bit and now it's been less than a year and I've already ran a, a trail runner. I've already ran a 50 k. And it's funny because like after a stressful day, so I might do a run or cuz it's like my meditation, which also that looks different to everybody cuz I used to think it was like sitting not thinking. 

[00:29:55] And I realize that is the complete opposite of what meditation is. But that's what [00:30:00] society puts out, which is what I think we think. But I think of it as like a decompression walk. Yeah. It's whatever's gonna fill your cup and, and take your mind out of the work stuff, the behavior, the animal stuff man has just, and also I've learned cuz I have to get my colleagues to care about themselves. 

[00:30:14] And this could be really challenging. as well, because again, I used to be that person. It, I don't have time or like, I'm a tech and I'm working 14 hour shift. You don't have time to pee. Yes you do. And when you pee, you will be more productive. Like, all this stuff that we hear about. Yes. But now that I've lived it, I'm like, guys, you, you, you do have time. 

[00:30:30] And if you don't take the time you are, there's no, there's no way. Like there's no way I, there's, I would've probably quit my job already. Well, I know I work for myself, but, still I would've fired myself. I know there's no way because I would've just had how much more productive I am because I had those healthy outlets for meats. 

[00:30:47] And then also I'm an extroverted person. I'll be honest guys, this is embarrassing. But I was never comfortable with being by myself. Uh oh, no. It takes, that's a learn skill. Yeah. I didn't wanna be with my own brain and now I'm like, yes, I [00:31:00] wanna run 25 miles by myself. And it's, I love that. And now I would even go see a movie by myself, and that is not something that would ever have happened five years ago. 

[00:31:08] So again, like it's just interesting the things that happen and that you, you And then my trainer's also a good trainer because she didn't force running on me. I came to, she probably helped a little bit how we help clients. She reinforced you? Yeah. Yeah. Like I helped the client understand, see the pain in their cat or dog, but I didn't say it. 

[00:31:25] They saw it, so now we can go to, so she definitely did that, but she wasn't wrong. I love it. I don't know what I do without exercise nature and running like, Well, and, and that's so important. God, you were touching on so many important things. Sorry, but No, it's so good. This, see, and the woman, I apologize all the time. 

[00:31:40] I don't even, I'm trying, don't need to. No, dude, I say sorry all the time and my partner again, listen. Yes, that lovely dude. He's like, why are you saying, sorry? That person bumped into you with their cart. I was like, okay, you're right. Let's, that's a good observation. Please keep sharing those with me. Let me go slam the carton to the side of the airs now. 

[00:31:57] But no, no, just being able to, [00:32:00] to step away from things and even you just saying like, no, you can go pee and you'll be more productive. Like, no, but really for that is for real because with, like I noticed when before I was diagnosed with my adhd, I would hyper focus so long. I am not even joking when I say that. 

[00:32:15] I would sit for five to six hours. I would hold it cuz it would just be like, okay, I need to get the next thing I do this one, one thing, one more thing. I have this, I gotta focus on this. And then like the second I'd walk away, I'd forget it. So then I'm just like, I have to do it. But then my husband would come in, he's like, have you eaten lunch? 

[00:32:30] Like, did you have you, when have you gotten up last? And I'm like, oh, this isn't good. This isn't healthy. And so now I have this habit of, and you know, I, I talk about my whiteboard plenty and. Having my list of things to check off every day, so I'm not overwhelmed, but I have it. So, okay. I sent that email. 

[00:32:46] I'm gonna get up and go walk around for 10 minutes. Yep. Okay. I handle these social media posts, I'm gonna take 20 minutes. Like just having those little breaks helps and like, sometimes my husband and I have to go into each other's office and be like, rub each other's shoulder and be like, [00:33:00] honey, when's the last time? 

[00:33:01] You know, you took a second. And sometimes I'll walk in and he'll be like, this working, and I'm like, your shoulders are in your ears. Like, let's take a break and like, walk away for a second. But it is, it's, it's, we deserve breaks. You know, we tell our clients all the time, especially with like, you know, separation anxiety, you know, go take a break, go walk around with your dog. 

[00:33:18] Just it's, but we don't think we deserve that. And we need it with how much work we're doing and how much we're investing in our clients. I remember what I was gonna say cuz I think I got off track, but it still flowed guys, right? Uh, it did! So for my colleagues, Which I think this was also true because we all say like, cuz there's toxic positivity, that's a really big problem in VetMed. 

[00:33:38] But like that's a whole nother thing. But helping colleagues understand how to, like you said, we think about the animals we work with, but we don't think about us. So what I'll do is straight up, which I found to be helpful, is I will sell them taking care of themselves. And I'm not making this up, but I have to get some buy-in and find their motivators, right? 

[00:33:58] So Right. And taking care of [00:34:00] yourself, which I was this person as well was not enough. And I know that's a bummer, but this is real life. So I would say if you go pee or if you eat lunch, you're gonna be able to place that catheter faster or you're gonna be able to communicate with that client better so that animal's gonna have better care. 

[00:34:16] So I had to kind of. I've noticed with some of my colleagues, which I was this person as well, I had to get into it first, being like, if you take care of yourself, you actually take better care of the animals you work with. And then once they got into it a little bit, then they got, they're like, Ugh, that got them starting. 

[00:34:31] Because if you just said, Tabitha, you should take care of yourself. I'm gonna tell you to whatever words. Yeah. Or people used to always tell me and they meant well. So this is obviously, this is a bit of a trigger for me because people mean well when they say this to me, work less as if it's this like magical, uh, and they're, to be fair, they're probably not wrong a little bit. 

[00:34:49] But also that's such a matter of fact like blanket statement, right? Like, what does that actually mean? Because that can mean so many things. And what does that look like? For said per, because I, it's different for [00:35:00] everybody. I used to be told work less. It's not, who not, um, like seek therapy or find a hobby outside of work. 

[00:35:06] It would always be work less or for example, I'm triggered by do yoga too, because I used to get told, like I'd go to a CE at a vet conference or a behavior conference and they would talk about yoga and I'm like, y'all don't understand what over. It's not the same for everyone. Yeah. But also if you are over threshold and in it like suffering in a, like for one, one of those, like the down part that the down day. 

[00:35:27] Yeah, no, you cannot then I don't wanna move my body. Right. You can't, I can't get outta bed. Yeah. You can't even find a therapist online. This is too much work. Cuz I'm in it. So I, right. I think, like you said, like you would never ask a dog being over threshold to do it. So why would we do that with ourselves? 

[00:35:43] And I, I think, which to me is like workless, but that's just how I, I interpret that. But again, workless is our sit. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That needs to be a shirt. Ha. 

[00:35:52] That's because I'm sure many of us, and to be fair, I, I have, you know, we all work a little bit too much. I'm working on, it's an ongoing process, right? [00:36:00] Progress isn't linear, all that stuff. But, and when we're excited about things, yes, but also don't just tell your friend to work less because guys, like if you have that thought, think about it and process it and or elaborate, come out differently. 

[00:36:13] Yeah. Say, Hey, can I help you find a virtual assistant? Can I maybe find like, instead of just saying work less was a very blanket statement, that in many cases, like yoga can actually be triggering cuz you're in it and you can't. Or how can you delegate? Yeah. How can you maybe give them solutions or suggestions about, Hey, do you have an accountant? 

[00:36:33] Oh, I have a few that I can share their information. So that person, cuz again, even as a business owner, when I'm not going, um, through a mental thing, I get real overwhelmed at that stuff cuz I Oh yeah. Dislike it. So if you're like, here's three. Who I'm like, you're the best friend ever. And you have significantly helped decrease my workload. 

[00:36:48] And I will actually look into those accountants now. Yes. No, I have, you know, I went through front surgery, that's why we had to reschedule. And I've been trying to like, you know, my mental health has tanked because [00:37:00] I am a very physical person and Well, how long do you have to be on rest? Long time. Oh, like six to eight weeks. 

[00:37:06] Oh, before I, before I can go on short, slow walks and I'm like, I like hiking. Like it's challenge four mile hikes. Like, what the fuck, um, alternative behaviors have you found? Thank you. Yes. So I've, it's. It's just, it's figuring out how to move my body differently because one of my legs is stronger than the other. 

[00:37:26] I have to overcompensate. I can't bend the same way, I can't maneuver the same way. And I told my husband like a week or two ago, I'm like, I feel really angry and down. And it's just like I can't process things I have in here. When I had my outlet of how I would handle it by working out, moving my body, hiking, whatever, I can't even do that. 

[00:37:45] I can't even go walk at the park with my dog. Like it's that bad. And so I finally, you know, talked with one of my friends who, uh, does she owns, owns a CrossFit gym and she was like, Hey, here are two workouts that you can do. Instead of just saying, oh, move your [00:38:00] body this way, or Oh, do this. She was just like, just, these are two ways you can do it and you only have to do it for like five minutes. 

[00:38:05] And I'm like, beautiful. Done. Did it this morning. Mood was so much better. But I just, I needed the help of figuring out how to move my body cuz I kept trying to. Do it the way I was used to doing it. I didn't know how to, you know, figure it out. And that's why it's really important. So I have, cuz I have bad hips for mul, I have a pin in my hip from when I was 14. 

[00:38:24] Ugh. Things happen and when you were 14 guys they would just put a pin in your hip and not have you do any rehab. It's so fun. So I'm like, fuck now in my hips, but that's okay. Um, cuz it's my body. I'm learning to accept it. So I'm an ultra runner so I of course, oh my god, ankle hip stuff. I have a lot of management things, but after a 50 k I had a ankle thing and I couldn't run and I did not do well. 

[00:38:49] Gosh, no, it's when you're used to it. I was not, I was essentially throwing temper tantrums, uh, in my home.  

[00:38:57] But I did again, which is why it's important to have a community. I'm [00:39:00] working on building ultra runner friends, so I could like, they could be like, you're right, Tabitha, that does suck. But I'm hearing it from someone who knows, like who did it. And then I started guys, I still, I did it angrily, but I did it. 

[00:39:11] Uh, I started kayaking, which I've never done because I was like, I can go outside. My ankle is in place, it doesn't need to move. Uh, and then I also bought a bike because my therapist and my trainer and everyone was like, God, so love this is going to happen because of your, it's just gonna happen sometimes probably good to have some other, uh, alternative behaviors. 

[00:39:31] Right, right. In the, in the winter, cuz I am from Ohio, I get seasonal depression and same, my partner's always like, like let's play video games. And that's a really good healthy, like, so just, it's important. I've also, it's great to have an outlet, but when you only have one and that gets taken away. I did not handle it well, which I like. 

[00:39:50] Now that I think about it, I'm like, that was a really hard time. But again, reflecting, I'm like, I learned new things and Right. I'm gonna get more and more as I go. You're gonna add more to your [00:40:00] toolkit. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Right. More healthy coping mechanisms. And because your body may not be able to do one said thing forever, and that's okay. 

[00:40:07] Right. And, and I think just being able to provide ourselves with these outlets and more enrichment, it's so important. It just, it gives us different ways to, you know, some days you're feel un ragy, you don't want to move your body, you don't wanna bend. Like there are days when I would do my yoga videos and I'm like, I can't hear her talk right now. 

[00:40:24] She's talking too much. And I'd be like, that's fucking, I'm gonna go run. Like, or you know, I am like, I don't wanna move my body. I feel very bogged down this morning. I'm gonna go be in my garden for an hour if I can, or, you know, I mean, we have a fixer upper, so I'm like, what can I do? There's so many things. 

[00:40:40] And so, but that's like the first two years of living in our house, it was like, all right, what's the project this weekend? And it would get me out of my head. But I think it's just a matter of figuring out what fills our cup and finding, leaning into those things when we need them and knowing that it's okay if, you know we need a slower morning or we need to cut out a little early [00:41:00] from work to take a little time for ourselves. 

[00:41:01] If we figure it out into our schedule, we can make it happen. And to learn from past stuff. So for example, yes, I used to like, I would speak at a conference and again, I'm extra on. I'm a bit extra. Uh, you have to, you have to be on. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm on, on, on, on, like not just while I'm speaking cuz I'm like, I wanna mentor and help and support people because I didn't have that. 

[00:41:22] And that's something that's really important to me. And I would come home and have clients that day, what the fuck was I thinking? So I had to do that for you guys. I hate to admit it, but I had to have that hap happen repeatedly before I was like, Hey, so a travel day is really stressful actually, and you're really tired. 

[00:41:40] And this is again, where my lovely partner just pops in and now I don't schedule appointments for the day, sometimes even the day after because I don't get until eight. You got that. You need that recovery time. Yeah, I need that re but it took me, so learning from, cuz again, that might look different for somebody else, but being like, okay, or I had this really heavy client and I, [00:42:00] cuz we generally have an idea of what we're gonna see. 

[00:42:02] So I'm only gonna schedule, I'm gonna move around my other appointment for today cuz this is initial consult, but we're talking about behavior euthanasia and like pretty significant stuff, heavy stuff. And um, I may need. Like some mental health or a buffer. Yeah, a buffer period. Yeah. Or I do trauma informed consulting for animal welfare and vet clinics. 

[00:42:21] And I remember I was at this amazing shelter in Florida and I was doing like overall two days with their whole staff. And the staff is amazing. Like their CSRs, ACOs, kennel staff, behavior staff. I mean it's amazing. and I did fear free handling workshops and then in Richmond and body language and all this stuff. 

[00:42:37] Woohoo. And the second handling workshop, cuz it's all about conversation and hands-on stuff. And we ended up going on about, somehow a conversation started about, cuz I mentioned mental health a lot and I mentioned how decreasing fear and stress for the animals I work with decreases my fear and stress and I'm very open. 

[00:42:53] Totally. And like then it became this beautiful but also very in depth conversation with these 10 staff members [00:43:00] about how they cry every day and how. They are really struggling and suffering. And it, and the behavior person who brought me out, she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, they needed, no, they needed that release out. 

[00:43:13] And seriously, I get emotional thinking about it. Cause it was just such a beautiful, like, it was just beautiful. And have, I think just having them be listened to. And then also that helped me go to management and say, Hey, we need an action plan to address the, you know, FAS and your staff. that's huge though. 

[00:43:29] But I went to hike on the beach after that because it was beautiful and I wouldn't want it any other way, but I needed to kind of like decompress. That is big. Yeah. Take it off. I shake off like a dog. Like I had to like shake it off. Like, and just being again, five years ago, I might have not done that. 

[00:43:45] And I, maybe then there's been times where my partner picks me up from the airport and I just sob. But it's because obviously there's some trigger, there's some other things going on there. Um, you're processing it too. Yeah. Sometimes that You gotta cry it out. Oh, I love, I love a good cry, guys. [00:44:00] Cry it out. 

[00:44:00] I used to feel it, like cry, cry. And now I'm like, you know what? I, I cry. I had a colleague, I had two colleagues take their own lives in the last month and I went for a run and real talk. I fucking sobbed like a baby for the whole run. And I was like, I fucking needed that. Like that was, yes, it comes up cuz you need it. 

[00:44:18] Yeah. Yeah. So embrace your emotions. Don't be ashamed. And thankfully I'm not that UGLi of a crier, but also I can't speak for, you know, speak for yourself. I'm definitely a Kim Kardashian crier. If someone walked in, like if someone saw, cuz no one was at this park. But also I remember when Roe versus Wade was overturned and I went like, no joke. 

[00:44:38] I went for a 20 mile hike. Deep in a wood that I knew there weren't a lot of people. And I screamed a lot that day cuz I was like, allow yourself to grieve and then write senator. Like, you know? Right, exactly. And obviously running is a pattern here, but it's just and nature, but it's just like, feel your feels like do your thing. 

[00:44:55] I love that. I feel like a lot of the times that we think that we're the professional, we're the [00:45:00] person that someone is coming to, therefore we can't do that. We can't have that vulnerability, we can't share that. We can't, we don't, we don't deserve that. When it's like of all the people we need to, because we are handling hard cases, we are having hard conversations. 

[00:45:15] We are having to be empathetic and be on and provide information, but also being that. Person that they can lean on to. Of course we need to process it. Of course we need that time. We absolutely deserve it. Otherwise, hello burnout. Hello. You know, early end of your career because, hi, I only lasted four years before I was just like, I'm done. 

[00:45:35] I can't, oh, I have so many amazing colleagues and friends who I respect their decision and I love them, but they left, especially in VetMed, they just completely left the field and it's, it's understandable, but I, again, I support and respect their decision, but it's, it's heartbreaking cuz it's just like, or even cat behavior people, I know a few that they weren't doing it for like a year, like barely at all. 

[00:45:58] I mean, I mean, from [00:46:00] my perspective and it's like you're just getting started. Yeah, there's a lot of other, but a lot of people start, like, they start as a veterinary technician or a behavior consultant, but they're, they've already been kind of doing things within that realm, but maybe with a little less. 

[00:46:13] You know, knowledge. So they weren't, which was probably even more challenging for them to be thrown into situations cuz they had less resources. Right. And then going into it full steam. Right. So by the time they go into it, they're burnt out. I see that all the, and that's probably what happened in those contexts. 

[00:46:28] So I think it's, but also I respect those decisions like a hundred percent. Right? And you do you, but also how can I help my amazing badass colleagues thrive? And also clients love. When you share your, obviously you read the, you read the word right? Yeah. Your body language. But I always like, I might be the first person to tell them that I'm observing signs stress, uh, in their cat or dog or signs of pain in their cat dog. 

[00:46:51] And that can be a heavy. Thing because caregivers are such so amazing that they're like, they in instantly. How did I miss that? Right. Or how dare I do. Which we do [00:47:00] too. I'm a horrible parent. Yeah. Yes. So then I'm like, then I start doing it. I have a jig, I do a jig. Uh, cuz this happened so much. And I'm like, but now that we recognize that we can't help them and then they just start laughing. 

[00:47:10] Oh, I love that. But it's good cuz it's like, feel it but move on cuz you know, and then I share You got the help. Yeah. My dog. How? Cuz of course I have animals, uh, with anxiety. Yeah. Um, and I share my dog's path about how I didn't recognize that. You know, as a, as a veterinary technician, I didn't recognize that. 

[00:47:26] I knew she had some anxiety, but until I really started getting a little bit more into behavior, like a year or two, like a little baby behavior person mm-hmm. I was like, oh, you have 45 displacement behaviors a day. Yes. I counted, you have 45 behavior. I'm like, I wonder if you have some generalized anxiety. you know, and I, I share that story when I lecture too, because I think so many times we, or my therapist, I remember I was being a perfectionist, 

[00:47:47] and I was like, how the fuck can't I see what's wrong with me? I know that sounds bad because I'm like, I'm behavior person. And then he's like, put your hand in front of your face. And I was like, okay. And he's like, what do you see? I'm like, he's like my, my hand. And he's like, yeah, that's it [00:48:00] cuz you're in it and you can't see everything else. 

[00:48:02] And I was like, that was like again, oh my god. Forever go. And I still think about it when like all the time because I think we can also be. I mean with my own animals as far as behavior and that stuff, I'm a fucking mess. And I'm like, how? How I'm not being good enough. Like I do that all the time. And I think of the hand thing or for ourselves when we don't recognize our own, it's so hard to recognize your own stress and which is why, I know we've talked a lot about our partners and colleagues and friends supporting you, but there are a lot of simple little things that you could do to help support each other or recognize those things. 

[00:48:33] Exactly. Well, and I love that cuz it's like, sometimes it's just like, or you know, we're on our phone and it's just, we're so magnified and zoomed in and for those that are not watching, I'm, you know, doing it on my iPad, imaginarily. But it, that is, it's, we're so zoomed into things that we're not, we don't know what's going on all over here cuz we're just looking at the one thing's funny, one thing I recognize, so if I'm looking at social and I start being like, why am I not doing that? 

[00:48:59] I'm [00:49:00] like, okay, that's data. Bitch, you tired cause you happy. Yes. I was like, you gonna, I have an app that like won't let me go on socials. Like it will shut it, it won't let me, even if I go to it, cuz I needed that kind of management. It's called Opal. No dude, I needed that kind of management. 

[00:49:15] Um, it's addicting. Yeah. But that is data to me cuz I'm always happy for my colleagues and I'm not comparing, well I don't compare myself. Cause we all do, I tend not to compare myself as much. So when I see myself comparing myself to literally every fucking person, I'm like, okay, data. You tired, you exhausted, let's get off of here. 

[00:49:33] Like, or you're sick or you're, you know, not feeling well. Right. And that's something that I am alert to right away now versus, because I'm like, why am I angry? Because again, kind of reflecting like. I'm not usually angry about this, like, what's happening? And then I'm like, social. You're feeling bummed And social media's making you darker cuz it does. 

[00:49:51] So how long have you been scrolling, right? Yeah. How long have I been on here? No, that's, that's so true though, cuz it's just, and it's like, I did a post this morning of like, you [00:50:00] know, how you start your day matters. And it's like the amount of times where I had I'd, I'd roll over in bed, look at my phone and I'd just be like, okay, I'm gonna check texts. 

[00:50:08] And then like, whoop, oh, look at that. Instagram opened. And then it's like, oh, I have all these comments and messages that I need to respond. Okay, let me do this work. Five minutes after I woke up. Okay, now I'm outta bed and I'm pissed off. Or you get a text. That is, which I'm working on boundaries with my lovely clients and friends because I get that. 

[00:50:25] I do. You wake up to a text and it's like a deep one. It's like a deep one, and you're just like, dude, not right now. I'm still not. it's in my brain. It's on my list to not look at my phone when I first wake up. I'm still not there. It's hard. It's impulse, but it's something I'm like, go downstairs. You know? 

[00:50:42] Go outside, drink your coffee, feed your cat, give meds, all that. Then look, it's only 15 minutes, but it's a process. I am, I'm working on it cuz it's, oh no, it's, we're training ourselves and, and setting ourselves up. It's. I mean, I, I was recovering from surgery, so it was like, what am I gonna do? I got a [00:51:00] week off work, like I'm stuck in bed all day. 

[00:51:02] I'm on my phone all day. Like, let's just fuck it up. Let's light this fire. Let's see what happens. And so, but it's just, I would be scrolling and then I'm like, oh, my whole mood just went wrong. Like, and you can feel it. You feel it. Yeah. And you're just like, where's that come from? Like, what the hell? And it's like, and then you feel icky. 

[00:51:20] Like she's, you do, you guys can't see it. But I'm shaking off like, yeah, like, it, it actually, cuz I'm like, Ew, why am I like spiteful? Like, what the fuck? Right. Like why am I feel, and then instead of leaning into it and not knowing, like we can reflect and I can be like, oh, this is cuz I slept. Like, because I also have a watch that like, Monitors my runs, like all these fancy things. 

[00:51:40] But also if I feel grumpy, I'll look at the last seven nights. I'm like, oh shit girl, you got two hours of RM sleep in the last five days. Maybe that's why that data has been, I'm such a data nerd, but it's, I love it though. It's helpful. It's been so helpful to, or like, I don't eat processed foods anymore. 

[00:51:57] barely at all. I still eat sugar. I'm not mental. Okay. [00:52:00] Everybody. But like, I'm vegan and I used to eat a lot of garden and because I was like, I don't have time to eat. Right. I don't have time to cook, eat quick meals. But now management and arrangement mm-hmm. I ordered meals because me and my partner just suck at meal planning. 

[00:52:13] We've tried to each their own. Um, yeah. Whatever helps you that have the ingredients. And I'm like, okay, tab about those chicken tenders. Vegan chicken tenders. Gonna take 20 minutes is going to make, take 20 minutes to make this meal. That won't make you feel like shit. Right. So now we're just in that habit and we're learning new things about food and I'm actually learning kind of how to cook, which is exciting. 

[00:52:32] Um, so you're training yourself. Yeah. Yeah. and I drink more water without even having like there's water in my cup and not coffee. You guys don't understand how amazing that is right now. But I used to live off like five cups. I still drink coffee. I used to have like five cups of coffee and an energy drink and now I have one drink a week. 

[00:52:48] It's just like, it's the little tiny changes where you're like, oh, I see where that affected this. And they add up. Yes. It's like the animals we work with. I always tell people when I'm at a shelter or vet clinic, like I know we feel like we don't have control, but you guys, [00:53:00] we actually have a hell of a lot of control of the environment to a bunch of tiny little things for the animals, and you make a really big difference. 

[00:53:07] And I'm really. Kind of like seeing those plants grow that I planted three years ago. Yes. Yeah. Well, and just a lot of the times we get stuck in the cycle of, just survival, need to make money, need to, take care of the kids, take care of the animals, and then you get put on the back burner and you're just stuck in the cycle and you're like, Hating life, but you don't know how to break out of it. 

[00:53:28] Yes, true. Yeah. My husband and I experienced that plenty over the years, and it's just, it's like, I'm usually the one to be like, whoa, okay. We're like, we're on autopilot and this isn't helpful. And so he works a lot more than I do, so I'll take it on me and be like, all right, you need breakfast. And I know him. 

[00:53:45] He will go grab a waffle and that'll be his food. And I'm like, bro, like you gotta feed your brain. Like, and so I'll be like, all right, I'm gonna make this and it'll take me, you know, 15, 20 minutes, but it'll give him enough energy in food. And, and you know, he, he gets his vegetables. Thank God. [00:54:00] Sometimes you need a little help, and that's okay. 

[00:54:01] That's okay. And it's, I've, I've talked about this plenty of, whenever I have my Sunday, so my. Mondays are my Sundays, and that's when I try to like prep things , and, and kind of get ahead of the week and set myself up because I know that's the only day I'm gonna do it. That's the only day I have time. 

[00:54:16] And it's not like I spend the entire day. I spend maybe two hours. So we have, so I'm sure many of us do this, but when I'm working with a caregiver who is pregnant, for example, oh God yeah. I'm like, okay, we're gonna start this enrichment schedule now am and PM the way I do it. And then I was like, because when the baby comes out, guys, you're gonna be over threshold. 

[00:54:35] You're gonna be, you're not gonna have the time. You're gonna be bitchy. That's appropriate behavior considering you knowing your environment. Yeah. I was like, I wanna get you into some habits now. Like, Hey, on Sunday you're gonna make four busy, but like it takes less than an hour and then you're in this habit. 

[00:54:47] So I took that again, this is where I take what I, and I have started to do that. So for example, when I travel, I would. Drink a little more alcohol guys. when I'm traveling for conferences. Stressful. Yeah. And, uh, [00:55:00] I also, sometimes it's cuz of lack of vegan options to be fair. Where I'm at. So I was like, so I'm like, oh, I used to just push through it, but I would feel like shit. 

[00:55:08] So now I started planning ahead and bringing like l green vitamin powder, things that I could put in water, bringing a water bottle. Ways to offset Yeah, like it, or planning like how you do on your Mondays. Like, hey, what can I do with this time that I have to make the rest of my week easier? And once it's a habit, It's fairly easy. 

[00:55:26] It's just, I mean, ing that habit is a bit of a bummer, but plenty of us prep enrichment for our animals. Why are we not prepping it for ourselves? Facts. And you can do them at the same time. Get an instant pot is not take that long to pour stuff in there, turn it on and go like I do it every week. And it's just, it's habit now. 

[00:55:44] And it's like when I don't do that, my week is shit. And I have like, and then like, yeah, yeah. Like I, I don't have time. I used to say that, that's not even in my vocabulary now cuz I'm getting personally I needed to get rid of that. I love that. Cause I used it so much. It's an easy excuse Essent to reach [00:56:00] for, push myself into fucking like I, it it's upset, it's autopilot. 

[00:56:04] You're shoving yourself into autopilot. Yeah. How far I've gotten, considering how much I allowed that to happen to me. Like the fact that I have survival mode been hospitalized or which there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm surprised. Same because, same, like I was pushing myself, it's disco now that I think about it. 

[00:56:19] I'm like, I would like, don't shake your friends, but I would be like, Fred, what are you doing Te Like, what are you doing? so it's just, but again, reflection and you, when you're in it, it's hard to know and all that lovely. Welll. And, and I think that's a good point of just, you know, it's like we, if we saw a friend going through this, we would snap them out of it in a gentle way or, or not gentle way, depending on your friendship shake. 

[00:56:39] Don't shake them. I'm shaking myself, so it's less aversive. Okay. But it, it's true. And, and you know, if you don't have a partner then it's even harder I'm sure, because it's like, who's going to be that person to notice when you have these shifts and. It. I'm so grateful I have the partner I have and we've worked so hard at the communication that we have now, so that he can [00:57:00] say, Hey, you're struggling. 

[00:57:01] Hey, you take your medication. No. Okay. Oh, he asked me why all the time. Yeah. Oh, he notices. Yeah. Oh no, I have like the timer caps, like on my, I just showed everyone mine. Yeah. It's so easy to forget. That's so funny. But also I think, like you said, not everyone. I'm so thankful, like I say all the time on my own podcast, like my partner doesn't get the recognition that I get same in hell. 

[00:57:24] I would be anything, I mean, I'm still comfortable with myself cuz we actually have a healthy relationship and you should be if you're in that kind of relationship. Right. But I, I know that support the, the support. When I was testing for my boards, he would lay my clothes out. Like it was, no, I'm, but for people who maybe doesn't have that partner, I think also having colleagues that support you and friends that are in the field. 

[00:57:46] So if you don't have that, we love you. And, and you don't need that necessarily. Yeah. Like that's just a bonus. Yeah. Reach out. But also like, reach out to a, few colleagues, even if they're in other states, because in your city, for some reason it doesn't look the same [00:58:00] way. That for some reason, uh, interestingly enough, there's no, there's probably data on it, but I don't know. 

[00:58:05] like just join a group that's sa that's well moderated. Or join your local, like kpa, ctp whatever group. And having, cuz that's been something that's been really helpful. Like having friends, well, colleagues that have ch turned into friends to talk to, like, I have to fire a client. I'm really conflicted and unsure about it cuz I'm a people pleaser, but. 

[00:58:23] I should have fired them like three months ago. Cuz this is But you need that sounding board. Yeah. I've reached out to a bunch of, like, I went, reached out to three of my trainer friends and it's so funny cuz all three of them said the same thing. They're like, you need to be more abrupt and cold in this email. 

[00:58:35] And I was like, fair enough. And the fact that they all gave me the exact same data, I was like, they, so now I have Fair point. Yeah. Like templates same. Yes. So I could just change 'em up a little bit, you know what I mean? Or if I see a super intense like, comment to my post or that again, I pick I, because you could tell, I'm like, this person's just angry. 

[00:58:53] This isn't about me. They're not being genuine. You, I guess like guys real talk. So I [00:59:00] literally have templates that I could just, I don't respond right away cuz obviously we shouldn't. 

[00:59:05] You're, you're hot. Like hot And then I have my templates and then I share. Cuz we all have those friends that you just text. Like I have a friend that texts me when something stressful happens and I love her so much. and then she will read it and we'll be like, cuz also even when, when we're responding to someone who's sometimes they are genuinely curious or missing. 

[00:59:23] Right? Right. But sometimes they're really angry. I still want to approach it. I'm very aware of what I put out in the world. Like, kind of like you were mentioning earlier, even with my post, I am so extra sensitive to what words I use because I Right. Seen the way that words have, not even from like a labeling human standpoint, from like a No describing just like a. 

[00:59:44] Infographic about Right. Whatever. They can lean too much in one word or whatever. And how many, how people misinterpret this thing that I understand how other people would post that and you're like, there's no way any, how did you take that from that? But thankfully, when you post things for a long time and you've been in the [01:00:00] field for longer, you can learn and be like, I'm gonna, like, I started narrating some of my handling videos because I'm like, this is just, sometimes it helps to have the tone. 

[01:00:07] Yeah, yeah. Contact more context, more tone. how can I make more people understand this? And provide more nuance. Yes, exactly. And don't get me wrong, it's frustrating sometimes cause that's a lot more work. And I do work for myself and I would love to have a bunch of employees. I have a virtual assistant who's amazing. 

[01:00:24] but that's about it. Oh, well I need to get more. I'm aware because I do need to get baby steps though. It's baby steps. But that's also really scary. Like I Right. That's very overwhelming and scary to me with how many other gigs I have. It's just, but it's good to, like I saw the question that you, cuz she has these awesome questions she sent all the time cuz she's so prepared. 

[01:00:43] Thank you. And she was talking about, there's a question about delegating and I was like, mental note, like data. I need to be better about that. Affirm. Oh, I'm terrible about it. No, I'm horrible about it. Like I, I have like a iron grip and I don't wanna let anyone help me. Like, I think it's so hard to get out of that. 

[01:00:58] Like, I can do it. I can do it. I [01:01:00] got it. I got this. Especially when you work for your own business because it's one thing you work. With like in a place that's a little, it still can be challenging, but it's a little easier. But then like, it's hard to give your plate to someone and be like, you're not gonna drop it. 

[01:01:12] You're not gonna fuck it up the way. Exactly. And I trust so many amazing people, but also I've worked really fucking hard to Right. Build what I have and to be the genuine person I am out there with information. And you don't want it to shift or, yeah, so I, but also, like, my virtual assistant is amazing and I love her so much and she handles all my, every, every, what is it called when someone reaches out on your website that. 

[01:01:36] Intake, yeah, yeah. Inquiry. So, sh inquiry, beautiful word. She, so she, and some of it is just, we have a template with my costs and all that stuff, and my wait list and, it's fairly simple for her, but how life cha, I'm like, how did I not do this my first three years of owning my business? Like, it's, cuz I was like, it's too much money. 

[01:01:53] I'm poor. But then I was like, actually it pays for itself and then you're able, it's not to do what you're good at, guys. I didn't [01:02:00] get TSA until recently. Because I thought it was for rich people, cuz I grew up in East Cleveland and I didn't go on my first plane until I was like 24. So I created this narrative that ts a a was a rich people thing for celebrities. 

[01:02:10] Right. I know this sounds silly. This is the narrative I created. I have that same narrative in my head, dude. It's like $75 for four years and I, I traveled. I didn't know that dude. Oh God. It is. I still guys, I've had five trips with TSA and every time I text my husband I'm like, I cannot believe this. Like, I'm still in, in awe of like how much easier I'm going to the airport 30 minutes before and with how much I'm traveling. 

[01:02:32] It has been life changing. And I'm like, damn, your narratives kaha. Get out of your narratives. Well and just it's, you know, we can piggyback on that with operating your business and not feeling like you deserve the help or Yeah. Or you deserve to hire people. You are not established enough, therefore, Oh yeah. 

[01:02:50] But there are so many ways where we can set ourselves up from the beginning if we're just getting started or if we're rebranding whatever, and realizing like, oh, okay, no, I, this is good because then I'm [01:03:00] gonna be able to focus on what I'm good at. You can't wear all the hats. And I say this as I wear five hats, but you can't wear all the hats and expect to get anywhere. 

[01:03:10] You know how hard it has been for me to like even just have, you know, Josh and I share an admin and just asking her to like send an email. I'm like, I could do this. But Josh is like, but you don't have to. I'm like, Ugh, I don't have to. You're right. Okay. Here can you just, it'll feel a little bit better every, because you also ask about like, what's your one piece of advice that you would five years ago? 

[01:03:28] And mine is you can't fucking do everything and you can't make everyone happy. Oh my God, you can't make everyone happy. I could go on that first. You'll be fair. I made quite a few people happy, which I'm actually like, I was joking, uh, like I was talking to, cuz I recently spoke at the IAABC conference and I was like joking with colleagues and friends and. 

[01:03:44] I was like, to be fair, I get, I don't get a lot of like negative stuff considering, but to be fair that might just be the way I take in negative stuff is different than maybe five years ago. but also I'm kind of at this point in my career where I'm like reflecting and I really, cuz I have been doing everything for quite a while and it's [01:04:00] not sustainable. 

[01:04:00] So I have to really, like, I'm literally in the process right now of like sitting back, writing things down, figuring out like, Tabitha, you can't work for all these organizations plus do this, plus do this, plus do this. You have been and that's amazing, but not sustainable. No. So that can also be really, cuz I'm in that process and it's kind of scary because, you know,  

[01:04:19] right. And you cant do it well, and you wanna have all the connections and all the relationships. Yes. And, and help all these people. I, this is my first year that I was, I've been turning down conferences and I'm like, whoa, what I'm doing. 

[01:04:30] Thank you. That's okay. Cutting myself on the back. No help, right? Yes. Yes. Because it's just, I'm finally at a point now where it's like, I don't necessarily need that exposure, which is I will toot my own damn horn because I deserve it. I've worked hard, but  

[01:04:43] that's unsure about saying that. What of saying, I'm sure about saying like, when we say, for example, like, you, you just did it cuz I do it too. Uh, like we were doing it before the lack or the, the podcast recording where you're like, I'm tooting my own horn. And, and you kind of like had to like just justify. 

[01:04:58] I know, I know. [01:05:00] Like, I don't deserve it. I'm the same way. Like, it's so funny cuz like I'm fairly well known for some things and it's. And I'm still like, but that's where my part, my partner again, that guy, even four years ago, people would say things like, Tabitha, you're lucky. And right away my husband would come up and be like, she's not fucking lucky. 

[01:05:17] She works her fucking ass off and blah, blah, blah. And now he's always in the back of my head. And it's, and again, having standing up for your friends like that and like even when we toot our own hoards, it still makes us uncomfortable. Which it does. It's a lot of, I felt uncomfortable saying that A lot of, yeah, you shrugged your body like I did. 

[01:05:34] I did. No, the fact that you noticed that was huge. We need to make, again, it kind of validates me cuz I do it too, but also I'm like, that's an interesting observation. Like why can't we be fucking proud of what we do? And not second guessing in our heads. But it's a process. It's a learning. Thing. But that was just interesting cuz I was like, we all, I see like my mentors who are like, and I'm like, you're a goddess. 

[01:05:55] Like what are you talking about? I know. Well, just like when we first came on and I was like, I'm so [01:06:00] excited to talk to you. Like I'm a big fan and you're just like, oh, okay, thank you. And people like know who you are and you're like, this is sick. I love you too. But also like I, the doubt comes in and you're like, why do you like me? 

[01:06:13] This is weird. Like even after like a long learning, it's just interesting. And that's probably part of the human condition, but also part of the people that choose to be in these fields. As well. There's probably that, that caregiving mentality can probably tend to come with some more of that self-doubt and that stuff. 

[01:06:29] But also we should be proud of ourselves and not be ashamed of it. And to your own horn all the time. It's because, you know, so many times it's just, we don't give ourselves that celebration and we don't, we, we just aren't like, yeah. 

[01:06:42] You know what? I did a lot. I've been working hard these last four years and I can actually say this, like, and that's what I was saying, like, with these conferences approaching me and, and wanting Woof Cultr to sponsor, I, you know, I feel like people think that I just bring in all the money, but I don't, um, and so they're like, it's a lot of work. 

[01:06:58] Conferences aren't cheap. No. And [01:07:00] so they like are asking me and I'm just like, sorry, it's outta my budget. And I feel guilty at the time saying no. But then I'm like, I'm at a place where I can say no. Confidently and not be regretful of saying no. And it's just like, okay, I deserve to sit back and actually soak in that. 

[01:07:16] Because, you know, four years ago I wasn't in that place four years ago. I didn't think I would be at a conference. I didn't think conferences would be approaching me. I was nobody. And so it's just like, whoa, like take a second and appreciate that. And I'm not saying that, you know, you gotta be speaking at a conference to have that feeling. 

[01:07:32] It, it can just be as little as like, Hey, my books are full and I'm not taking clients for two months. That is huge. Oh, when I started my waiting list, I, that's a big accomplishment. Shit, I went through some shit, but I was also like, I mostly only see people are waiting to see you. Yeah. I only see severe behavior cases. 

[01:07:49] So with that context, like these aren't, these are generally like aggression ca, like they're very severe and I was like, I can't. I am not doing my job appropriately if I'm taking all of you [01:08:00] on. Right? Like, realistically, and then I was like, I can't have a waiting list because then animals are gonna die. 

[01:08:05] I'm just being honest, guys. Uh, I, I had to go through this and Oh yeah, you go on that all the time where people are like, let's spiral. I'm gonna euthanize my pet if you don't. And that's something that has been, and again, wow. I am thankful for those experiences in a, to put that on someone though, because I, that's one thing that I will not, so now, at this point, based on my VetMed and behavior career, that's one thing. 

[01:08:24] Straight the fuck up. I do not tolerate. Like, you do not manipulate. Absolutely. Like, no, fuck you. Sorry. Like that's a, I don't say that, but like, I'm also like, no, because I've literally spent fucking five days writing a behavior plan for you for free, and you didn't listen to anything I said, or I provided you with alternatives, like various alternative solutions. 

[01:08:45] And I, and then it was really eyeopening over the years, I realized like, oh, you don't want help, like, No, you just want, you know, and also I, I have referrals and immediately my virtual assistant sends out, Hey, like I have separation anxiety, [01:09:00] referral people and others like, right? So it's not even, cuz guys, there's more than enough behavior for to go around, right? 

[01:09:05] I'm not just leaving them hanging, like, and honestly, eight to 10 weeks is really, I mean, considering I'm pretty proud of that, considering I work for myself. that's not that long of a waiting list, real, real time. But again, this is where I'm like justifying still in my head like, right, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

[01:09:20] It's so challenging. But I, it was super relieving and I'm like doing my job so much more effectively now. Yes, that I have that appropriate waiting list, but again, I provide appropriate evidence-based trainers. And also I have tons of free, I right resources and alternatives. Like, it's not like you're leaving them hanging. 

[01:09:38] You're like, Hey, can you wait a little bit? But here's this, yes. Like, And that's also makes me feel better. I have like 500 articles on my website. I have a bunch of free resources. Oh, I was looking. Yeah. Oh, I have a freaking podcast. So I'm like girl. So I kind of have to like talk myself down and I'm like, you're doing your part. 

[01:09:55] You're doing more than you can. Like you've provided more than enough. But also I think we all [01:10:00] probably go through that where it's just like, of course that's how we learn. I can't help everybody with every, and to be fair, I may not be a good fit for everybody as well. Or that person may not want help. 

[01:10:10] They may just be panicking in that moment at that day. Cuz my virtual assistant brought this up and I was like, that's a really good observation. Like she's like, they're just like over threshold in this moment. And she works with a few trainers. So she's gotten pretty savvy. She knows the lingo. Like she's like you. 

[01:10:23] That person's just like fucking super pissed about this in this moment. So they wrote this long ranty, non kind of cohesive. Email to you. Emotional reactive. Yeah. Right. Which is, again, we're all humans and they got that all It's fair. Yeah. I get that. And she's like, so I'm gonna schedule, send them scheduling information, but they most likely just needed to vent. 

[01:10:42] And I was like, beautiful. Hell yeah. Like, but that's such a good observation from her part cuz I don't think I would've ever, obviously we know that by the time people reach us, they've probably talked to so many people and unfortunately they're at a certain point Yeah. They're frustrated. Which, which is why we are empathetic and understanding that like, you don't wanna actually use an [01:11:00] nicer pet. 

[01:11:00] You're just, no one has listened to you and you're in a really bad place. First is my first year as a behavior consultant, that was really hard to hear with more than 75% of my voicemails, you know? Right. And, but I'm in a place to not internalize that. Right. I know now that, especially with cats, but dogs too. 

[01:11:15] There's very few resources like evidence-based. You know, right. Animal welfare, positive behavior, consultants and trainers. finding that information's really challenging. Again, as a vet tech, it was hard for me, so I'm like, whoa, general public, like this must be almost impossible for you. and you know, we tend not to be as loud, which I always joke, I was, I talked to Michael Shaio at the conference and I was like, we need to be fucking louder. 

[01:11:37] I'm pretty good about being loud. I'm just bubbly as hell too. And I was like, being loud, bubbly, and kind. I'm gonna get the message across, like, you know, so, so I always joke like, we just need to be louder, but in a. When you hear louder, that doesn't necessarily mean like abrupt and aversive louder, right? 

[01:11:52] It's, it's, it's, uh, you know, welcoming and, and soft louder because it, it's, it works. I mean, it, I [01:12:00] mean, the amount of people that have reached out to me since starting this podcast and they're like, oh my God, I took my email off of my phone. I turned my social media notifications on, I bought a whiteboard, and I'm just like, yes. 

[01:12:10] Yay. Wait. But those are so many big things. Yes. Oh yes. That's huge. It's so big. And it's just like, wow. If, you know, maybe if they wouldn't have heard this podcast, they wouldn't have done that and they would've kept in that cycle and it's like, fuck, even if it's three people, I'm happy. It's huge. And, and there is ripple effect happening. 

[01:12:26] And I think the more we talk about it, the more that we share our own diagnosis, share our own struggles, and, and know that there are ways that people have set themselves up. They may not be the same. But there are solutions and it's just finding which one works and that is how we approach behavior and training. 

[01:12:43] No training is the same, no training protocol is gonna be the same. It's always gonna be different for the individual. So why can't we apply that to ours house? 

[01:12:51] beautiful. It's true though. And it's just, it's funny cuz we don't see that until it's like someone really cracks open the walnut and they're like, [01:13:00] oh yeah, thank you. Oh, I also, so on my path, like I had a close friend, who left vet Med a year before that due to severe mental stuff. 

[01:13:09] and I will never forget what she said to me because it was really eye-opening and I share it with a lot of my friends and colleagues. But I said, she said, Girl, you aren't like on the ledge of compassion fatigue and burnout. She's like, you're swimming in that shit. And I was just like, that was a really good, again, everyone has different ways to define things, but for me, but we need those analogies that really like hit home. 

[01:13:29] Like where again, I had burnout and compassion fatigue along with lots of other Undiagnosed, yeah, undiagnosed stuff like, because also, I think sometimes burnout and compassion fatigue are kind of words that are thrown out. Like this is why mental health is, and I'm like, usually it's mental health issues on top of like burnout, right? 

[01:13:46] Compassion fatigue. It's not that burnout and compassion fatigue aren't bad on their own. Right. But usually, but they go hand in hand usually. Yeah. There's a lot, just like most dogs with thunderstorm anxiety have noise phobia, like, you know, like these things go hand in hand and we [01:14:00] can use that information to better our animals that we work with, but also ourselves, like, hey, sometimes it just takes. 

[01:14:07] Seeing someone else, like sharing their story and just being like, aha. Like sometimes would just need help with journey. The light bulb. Yeah. The year before that where she had a, she was in a really, really bad place. And cuz like you mentioned, identifying as, cuz I am a veterinary technician and I am a behavior consultant. 

[01:14:23] I am a VTS and I'm proud of those things. But it could be really dangerous to only identify as one thing because Right. Like leaving general practice, I'm still a vet tech, but that was so long. Yeah. Hard for me. Or whatever you define as behavior consultant, you might be only like separation, anxieties your fucking jam. And that's all you wanna do. And you're like, am I still, am I still like a trainer train? Like we all do that, right? You are like, you know what I mean? I'm also a hair color aficionado. I'm also a runner. I'm also a daughter like, So I think, I don't get me wrong, I still identify as those things a hundred percent. 

[01:14:59] You don't need to be in [01:15:00] one box though. Yes. I used to. You're limiting yourself. Identify myself as one of those things and that can be really dangerous. You know how hard it took me to accept that I was an entrepreneur, a podcaster, and a badass. Thank you. But it's true. It's like for the longest time I was just like, like I didn't know how to describe Woof Cultr to people. 

[01:15:19] And so people would ask like, oh, what do you do? And that's interesting. People that weren't in the training industry don't dissect that. Okay. But, but it's inter, it is interesting cuz people would ask what I do and I'm like, oh, I like have a t-shirt business. Like, oh, like, and my sister-in-law would be like, hold up, like you don't know who she is. 

[01:15:36] And I'm like, help. And the more they do that, then you start saying like, again, you are an entrepreneur. A hundred percent. Yeah, it just took me four years to realize that. I'm like, am I though? But then, you know, people will come up and be like, oh, do you, you know, still do training? And it's like, with my own animals, my husband. 

[01:15:51] Sure. Are you still a trainer? Yes, I have that knowledge. I still apply it. Yeah. In different ways. But it's the same thing of like, you know, do I still do [01:16:00] hair? Well, I cut my husband's hair. Oh, is that what you did before? Yeah, I did hair for like fun six to eight years before. Oh, snap. See? And again, like those skills don't go away necessarily. 

[01:16:10] Like, I was like, no, I'm not drawing blood every day anymore. I'm gonna suck at it. And my partner's like Tabitha, that's not how skills work. Like he just, but again, you create all these like, or I'm not seeing as many of this specific type of case. Like, cuz I see tons of betters aggression, but there's, and I'm kind of over it like, but you're like putting yourself in these boxes. 

[01:16:29] But how do we even define. A behavior consultant or a trainer, I hate it looks different for everybody. Yeah. Well, and there's, this is, you know, we're going off on tangent, but that's fine. But We have, we developed different skills from whatever, you know, past lives, past jobs we've had. And so it's like, for the longest time I'm like, I was a stupid, superficial hair stylist. 

[01:16:48] Like, like I didn't do anything besides screw up my feet and my shoulders. And then I'm like, oh, that's actually something I learned. In my career because I didn't know how to get people to talk. I was so [01:17:00] quiet, I never talked. And then I got in here and I'm like, I have to talk. They're in my chair. I gotta get people to talk. Like it's gonna get weird if we, it's gonna get on, right. We both sit here mute and uncomfortable. 

[01:17:10] And so I had to develop that skill. And when I had that skill that helped with training. I knew how to get people to talk. I knew how to get people to open up and make them feel comfortable. And I'm like, oh, this is a skill. Like I didn't, you know, a lot of people don't have this. My husband and I are very opposite in that he's very analytical and to the point. 

[01:17:26] Whereas like I open up like, let's have a conversation. Yeah. My, and so that's how we work together so well and people would see us in consults together cuz we'd do 'em together and they'd be like, are you guys married? Cuz they couldn't tell. Because we would be so professional and so different from each other. 

[01:17:42] So it's just, it's interesting how that can have that ripple effect. I know I went on a tangent, but Ooh, later on, not during this podcast, but I wanna hear about you doing consults with your partner, cuz that sounds like a whole nother story I have to hear about. Oh, he and I need to do a whole episode together. 

[01:17:55] It's just me convincing his butt to get on. I wanna hear peer pressure, but also in the [01:18:00] most positive way. Cause I respect your, I would love to hear that cuz I, I feel like that could be an interesting dichotomy where I'm not familiar with a lot of people that consults with their partner or even another behavior consultant necessarily. 

[01:18:13] And I feel like that could be so helpful. But also since you're married, it could also be different.  

[01:18:17] Okay, well I feel like we have had such a good conversation, Tabitha. Oh my God. Like we've talked about so many things and just, I feel like people are gonna feel so reassured in knowing like, okay, this doesn't have to be my set path. I can change it and I can find little tiny ways to adjust it if I can. 

[01:18:36] Yes. Thank you so much for having me on and for starting this beautiful podcast and for Woof Cultr and for everything you do. I love your thank your partner. Well, I guess it's both of your businesses cuz it's not his business, but, because you, you do the website a lot. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, but I love everything you guys do and thank you for letting me like share. 

[01:18:54] A little bit about my experiences and everyone out there. You're fucking amazing. Just your friendly daily [01:19:00] reminder, uh, you're fucking amazing and you are better than you actually think you are. Just heads up. Yes. Oh my God, yes. 

[01:19:07] And if you found this podcast helpful, you like what we're doing here at the leash mind, leave a comment, subscribe, like tag us on social media, just give us a little r plus and we'll be back with another episode.