Fostering Mindfulness and Connection w/ Marissa Martino

In this episode Mandy sits down with Marissa Martino,  of Paws & Reward. They delve into a deep conversation about the intersection of dog training, business, and mindfulness.

Marissa shares her unique approach to dog training, emphasizing the importance of building a meaningful relationship between dogs and their owners. From managing stress to navigating the sometimes challenging terrain of mental health in the dog training world, this episode provides invaluable insights and tools for anyone involved in dog training or anyone seeking to deepen their relationship with their canine companions.

Tune in and discover the profound lessons dogs can teach us about ourselves, mindfulness, and living more intentionally.

Marissa's latest role included offering animal shelters and rural CO communities the education and resources needed to expand their animal welfare impact. She is also the author of Human-Canine Behavior Connection: Building Better Relationships Through Dog Training and hosts the Paws & Reward Podcast (Linked below!) 

Where you can find Marissa-
Paws & Reward Podcast
PawsandReward on IG

Transcript

Marissa Martino 

[00:00:05] Hey, welcome back to the Leashed Mind Podcast, mental Health and Dog Training. I'm your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, I have a conversation with Marissa Martino from Paws and Reward. So, I wanted her to come on the podcast because I have been a head of hers for years. Of course, naturally, if you know Marissa, you would know why but it's primarily because how she has navigated her business and how mindful she is with her business, with her clients, with her own dog, Peru, with her own podcast, with how she goes and works with shelters because, she works with shelters in Colorado and California. And, and so we do talk a lot about, mindfulness within our business, checking in with ourselves, being more present with our dogs, of course, yes, but also checking in [00:01:00] with how we're feeling in the moment, ways that we can provide ourselves. 

[00:01:05] More self care and how that can look from day to day. Cuz it varies from day to day how we move through our business in an intentional way that is ultimately setting up how we want our business to grow, how we want to connect with clients, how we want to train really bottom line. but so throughout this episode we talk a lot about mindfulness and. 

[00:01:29] just navigating the human dog relationship, of course, but also just really taking care of ourselves and our business so that we can have a longer career and so that we can continue to enjoy what we do because there is no way that Marissa has done this for as long as she has, since 2007 and loves what she does without. 

[00:01:52] Taking that time to care for herself without taking that time to check in and see where she needs to be more mindful in what [00:02:00] scenario. So let's just get into the episode. 

[00:02:03] Marissa, thank you so much for agreeing to come on the podcast. I'm super excited to talk to you. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's, it's an honor and I'm so excited about the topic of your podcast. It's really needed and I'm just, I'm honored to be here. 

[00:02:17] I feel like you were just one of the perfect people to come on, cuz I know how much you really do prioritize mental wellness, especially within your training programs that you have. It's, it's a lot more relationship based and the connection, which I really appreciate. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So for those that may not know you, can you give a quick little background of how you got started and kind of where you are in your career right now? 

[00:02:39] Yeah, so, um, I like to tell the story that I was working at Martha Stewart living because that is my funny, my, my previous life. Yeah. Everyone's always like, what? What were you doing there? So I was, I was a designer out of college and I, was curious about a career working with dogs and. Fortunately met up with this amazing trainer [00:03:00] that went to the Academy for Dog Trainers back in the day when it was at the San Francisco s spca. 

[00:03:04] and then like a year and a half later I went and, and I always joke that my, my family was like, I'm sorry, what? Like always? Yeah. Like, what, what are you doing? Um, and so I was there for a few months and then I got into, I really wanted to become a part of something. So I, started my career in animal welfare and worked at, I'm still in animal welfare. 

[00:03:26] Uh, I worked at three different shelters, both in California and Colorado. Oh, wow. So, animal sheltering is definitely a passion of mine. And then on the side of working in animal sheltering, I've had my own private practice both in California and now here in Colorado. And like you said, I really prioritize. 

[00:03:44] like I love behavior and I love to geek out, right? Like the rest of them. And what my mission, like what, what gets me up in the morning is bringing some awareness to pet parents, about themselves through the lens of the relationship with their dogs. So whether we're working on a [00:04:00] behavior concern, or whether they're just taking a look at themselves. 

[00:04:03] And how they show up in that relationship, building that, that, that self-awareness and then the, those skills to have a deeper relationship with their animal themselves and others, like, that's the stuff that really makes me excited. Um, and so, so yeah, so that's what I have been up to I love that you emphasize on that and, and it's not so much just average training. It, it's the connection, it's the relationship. It's seeing our role in it, which is a great angle. Cause I feel like a lot of the times it just, it. Goes past that. Owners don't really see where it's like, oh, I am involved in this. 

[00:04:36] And it does, you know, our bond is important to our training protocol. when did you decide to kind of lean more into that direction? Did you always kind of wanna focus on that kind of emphasis? No, I didn't. Uh, I had an amazing therapist when I was 25. This was a long time ago, and she started bringing up the parallels between like, My [00:05:00] work at the Humane Society of Boulder Valley with my clients and then my work with myself. 

[00:05:04] So she was creating those parallels for me and I was like, oh my gosh, you're right. Okay. There's a lot here, like I can learn about myself and how I process the world around me through the lens of how my dog processes things around her. And um, I can also be really curious about, you know, if I. I'm getting triggered by my dog when she does a, b and C behavior. 

[00:05:26] Oh, interesting. I also get triggered in other areas of my life when I'm outta control or I'm feeling less than, or fill in the blank. Right. So, it wasn't until my therapist really started to point out some of those parallels and then I started getting really curious about my relationship with Sully. 

[00:05:43] and this was 13, 14 years ago. Right. And when Sully was reactive, I, I did a lot of like, even though I was a trainer, and it's such a silly story, like when I go back and rehash it, but I did a lot of like blaming him and I was, I, I was really disconnected from [00:06:00] him and I just wanted to fix it versus, okay, let me take a step back and evaluate everything and Sure. 

[00:06:06] Let's, let's come at this from, uh, teamwork. Perspective. And that's when I was like, oh, interesting. Do I try to control other areas of my life the same way I'm trying to control my dog? Turns out, spoiler right, I do. Right. So I was just, um, sort of like enmeshed in this, huh? I could really learn a thing or two about myself, some areas that I'm succeeding and some areas that might need some tweaking, right? 

[00:06:31] Um, through the lens of. Relating working with being with my dog, and it almost felt a little safer for me to do it in that, in that container, and then get a little bit curious about how else I'm showing up in other areas. So that's where it sort of all began, and then it's just, it just keeps getting like deeper and deeper as I do more work on myself, if that makes sense. 

[00:06:54] Oh, I love that. Well, so. I'm curious how your clients feel about that approach and, and do they [00:07:00] feel like just more welcomed and like they can kind of be themselves and break down those walls when they're working with you and, and notice their role in the training aspect too? 

[00:07:11] Yeah, I would, I would like to think so. I would like to think that I create a space for my clients to feel really seen because, um, it's really hard to. Care for a dog that has behavior concerns. I mean, it's really hard to care for a dog, period. Right? Right. Like I w I wouldn't say Peru. My new dog has significant behavior concerns, but she is an adolescent and I. 

[00:07:32] You know, sometimes our agendas don't align. Right, right. I like that. And, and, and so just caregiving for a dog can be really hard. And then when you add, moderate to severe behavior concerns that we're seeing, on top of that, it's even harder. And I, so I really try to cultivate a space where, where my clients can sort of dump all of that into the space without judgment. 

[00:07:54] Um, Regardless of what they're doing, like, especially if they're, if they're feeling shame [00:08:00] or, you know, less than, or failure. I mean, like all of this comes into our conversation about what's going on for them and Okay. Um, and then we, we have us a specific session designated where we talk specifically about that. 

[00:08:16] So like, what's coming up for them? We're not talking about training, we're not talking about the dog. We're just like life talking about their, their relationship to the training process, their relationship to their dog, their relationship to themselves as the caregiver. And then I use my six connection principles to help them learn new skills in order to how to cope with that from a mental perspective. 

[00:08:38] And so it's, It's, again, it's not about like you need to do this management strategy, right? You need to do this. Like, we have time for that. But we, I have an additional carved out hour where we just talk about them and their experience because if they're burnt out or if they're challenged or they don't believe in the process or whatever, whatever their mindset is, that's gonna impact our training plan. 

[00:08:59] And so,[00:09:00] I've seen where we're talking about something and they have a mindset shift, and then that mindset shift actually helps to support the behavior plan. It's not that we changed anything. It's not that we trained a new behavior. It's not that we modified the plan. It's more that the client modified him or herself, and then they were able to show up to the training plan in a more. 

[00:09:22] Oh, like a, like a more cohesive and, and like bought in place. And So more present? Yeah, really present, really mindful. Um, I love that. And they sort of clear out some of the stuff or some of the thoughts that might have been getting in their way. I love that. I love that approach. That just sounds like that's so enjoyable, not only for your clients, but for you because. 

[00:09:42] You're just, it's, it's a different approach, but it's just so much more mindful and, and present. I love that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. It has to be fun to like experience that in real time and see them. Have those shifts and like, oh, this is where I could have been holding onto this and this is where [00:10:00] this can transfer. 

[00:10:00] Mm-hmm. That has to be really awesome to watch that unfold. Yeah. It's really cool to watch some of my clients take it to the next level where they're like, and then I was at the doctor's office and then I was with my, my colleague and I was, and I'm like, oh, wow. Like, I, I mean, that is my, were you were trigger stacked? 

[00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah. Like they, they. They're generalizing the skills and they're generalizing the awareness to other parts of their life, which is what I was doing with my dog, Sully. Right? And so that's really what I'm, it's like, you know, I really want folks to, um, be mindful of how they're showing up in their life, period. 

[00:10:35] Right, right. Seriously. Or like, become more awake and let's try it out, or learn this skill through the lens and through the experience with your, with your dog. I love that. Thank you. That's so awesome. So great. Yeah, it's really fun. And I'm curious how that has affected how you move through your day, your life, your relationship with Peru and your business. 

[00:10:56] I know that was like a big box of questions. Yeah. How it [00:11:00] impacts me. Well, I, I would say I'm, I'm really aware in a lot of aspects of my life. Most people tell me like, Wow, you're a really self-aware person and sometimes that, that's really great. And other times that can be really, um, what's the confronting, right? 

[00:11:15] Same. Yeah, because I can, I, I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, I'm, I'm noticing this or I'm noticing this, and yet it, to me, it is such a gift, right? Like how it shows up in my relationship with Peru is I might not. Like latch on or get hooked to a shame spiral. Right? Oh, okay. I then am like, you know what Marissa, I'm not sure that that's the entirely true, um, you're feeling shame around this thing. 

[00:11:38] I understand that. What else might be true about this perspective? Right? So I'm able to sort of, I love that you talk yourself through it. It's like, get myself out of that. So I'm not, I don't get hooked into, I'm not blindly getting sucked into. Thoughts that could be a detriment to my mental health and to my relationship [00:12:00] with my dog. 

[00:12:00] Right. And so I, and I do that with my business as well. I mean, we all suffer from quote unquote imposter syndrome, even though I don't know if it's really imposter syndrome. It could just be like we're feeling it's big feelings. Yeah. Like we're feeling doubt in ourselves one day. Um, and. Sometimes I'll, I'll have a lot, I'll have some conversations with myself like, is, you know, is that really necessary? 

[00:12:21] Or Right. What is true about this? Like, do you need to know a specific, like additional information? Do you need to phone a friend? Um, do you need to review the case? Or are you just having a day where like you're hungry and tired and then you're feeling overwhelmed? Right. So, and that's something we don't think about and how that affects us though. 

[00:12:40] Yeah. I mean, and just. Just everyone drink a glass of water. When you're feeling like unsure, I swear. Go get a snack, drink some water. Like go get a snack. Walk away. Exactly. Go get a snack. Drink a glass of water. Like even just take a walk around your block without your dog. And yes. And get your head on. 

[00:12:56] Yeah. Then maybe address it. Yeah. Oh, I love [00:13:00] that. That's so great. And I, I feel like a lot of times it's so easy to get sucked into that and get caught up and then the, , the doubt. I love that. It is doubt. It's not even just imposter syndrome. We have this doubt of, do I know what I'm doing? 

[00:13:12] Should I be doing this? And I think that they just kind of piggyback on top of each other, and then we have this pile of doubt sitting on us, and then we're weighed down. We don't wanna do what we do. And then it's like, okay, then we lose another really great trainer in the industry. Mm-hmm. Because they get so overwhelmed with it and, Oh, I love that. 

[00:13:31] I love just the way you're handling that and how everything goes over to one another with your business, with Peru, with life with clients. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, um, I don't know who said this, this is not me. Um, but it's, it's the way you do one thing is the way, the way that the quote is, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. 

[00:13:53] Yeah. I like to modify it and say, the way you do one thing is the way you do most things. Yeah. Because I don't think it's truly everything. but [00:14:00] there's a lot of similarities, right? In terms of like, How I'm showing up in this area, how I'm showing up in this area. Like there's a lot of common themes, a lot of common thoughts that I get hooked into. 

[00:14:10] And so, if I can look at it in one area, so. Could I then generalize that learning or that awareness into another area? Right. So, right. And what I have found with myself is that, yeah, there's a lot of overlap. And so if I'm feeling less than as a trainer in one area, Ooh, interesting. I'm feeling less than as a pet parent as well, and I'm feeling less than as a friend or whatever. 

[00:14:31] Right. So it's, having that awareness is, is critical. So when you do get in, cuz it's inevitable, sometimes it just happens, um, when the doubt and everything, it starts piling on you. What do you usually do in that moment? In like, yes, talking to yourself through it, but is there anything else you usually do in that moment to really help work through it when it starts? 

[00:14:53] Yeah. Yeah. I love that you bring up the fact that like, it's inevitable because it is, it happens, right? Like it, I I [00:15:00] sort of equate it to. It's like if you have a dog that is reactive, like they're barking and lunging on leash, that's always gonna be a choice for them. Mm-hmm. What we do in behavior modification is that we reduce the frequency at which that's happening, right. 

[00:15:14] Through management and teaching them different skills. But some days are gonna be harder for that dog to choose those new behaviors versus. The really well re rehearsed behavior of barking and lunging. Right, right. And so like, I, I use that example for, for myself, right? It's like, I might like, the really well-rehearsed behavior for me is to like, beat up on myself, say that I'm not enough or whatever. 

[00:15:38] Right. That, that's really well rehearsed. It's easy to reach for that too. Follow, it's easy to reach for that and follow it. Yeah. Um, there are gonna be days where I can recover from that a lot faster. The same way that like, the reactive dog can recover a lot faster. And there are some days where, where I can't. 

[00:15:54] But, so typically if I can recover, like if I'm in that moment where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna [00:16:00] make a different choice. Lots of times it is. it could be a combination of things or it could be, whatever I can grab in that moment. So, sometimes it's changing my location, so it's like just standing up and walking across the rules. 

[00:16:13] Um, sometimes it is, like I said, taking a walk around the block without my dog. Sometimes it is just taking five deep breaths. Sometimes it is, um, asking myself a question, right? Like instead of getting really hooked into that thought, asking myself like, Hey, what else might be true about this? 

[00:16:30] Right. sometimes it is also just acknowledging like, oh wow, I'm really feeling a lot of overwhelm. Like, what? And then the next question is, what do I need in this moment? Mm-hmm. And it could be like, like the other day. I had a ton of work to do and I was just like, I need a nap. Like I need a nap. Your body will tell you exactly. 

[00:16:48] And I was like, you know what? I don't need to understand why. I don't need to assign meaning to why I need a nap, but I need a nap right now. And so I took it. So, a lot of it is talking to myself. A lot of it is listening to my body. And, and [00:17:00] again, those things can range from, like that nap was two hours versus. 

[00:17:03] Standing up and walking across the room and taking five deep breaths, took 30 seconds. Right, right. So it's, it just depends what level of resourcing I need in that moment. and I typically, I don't have a lot of like scheduled self care. I mean, maybe I do, like I, I'm, I'm a hike with Peru and I get massage work, but like, I try to, I try to ask myself daily in the moment, like, what do you need right now? 

[00:17:29] Like a check-in? Yeah. It's like, what's here right now? Oh, wow. You're really, you're feeling well resourced. That's great. Okay. What's here right now? Oh, wow. I need a nap. Right. So I'm really just, or, or it is that like, go have a snack and drink water. Right. Oh wait, I'm dehydrated. Exactly. Like all the, all the problems are solved with just hydrating yourself. 

[00:17:47] Right. So I, it is just, A check-in often with myself of like, what? What might I need? And very similarly to like our dogs, like they might need something different one day versus another day. And it's the same with us, right? I was just [00:18:00] thinking like enrichment for dogs and sometimes it varies. Sometimes they need sniffing, sometimes it's shredding up cardboards. 

[00:18:06] Some days it's a L mat, like it's the same for us. And I love that you are so realistic about it because not every day is the same. We do not wake up the same every day. Some days I wake up and I'm raring to go, let's. Open emails at 7:00 AM and then handle other things. Other days I will start work very late because I need to move slower because my brain just isn't there and I'm not gonna force myself. 

[00:18:28] Cuz you can't be productive when you're in that state. You can try to be, but you're not gonna get very far. Totally, totally. I love that you're not forcing yourself. I think there's a lot of pressure to like, Do so much in our, in our culture and, and it is really hard to just go like, yeah, I'm gonna take a nap or I'm gonna start later, or whatever it is. 

[00:18:47] And, it's just, I think that that's really important that we listen to our bodies. Cause our bodies are talking to us all the time. Well right. And I think that if we don't, it's just gonna keep getting worse. The alert little, you know, red [00:19:00] signals are just gonna keep popping up. Popping up. You can only mute them and silence them for so long. 

[00:19:04] And then the burnout is just gonna be harder and longer, and you're gonna feel worse about it. Yeah. speaking of burnout, as that is also inevitable at times and happens to the best of us. Mm-hmm. Um, how, how do you try to prevent it and, and how do you recover when it does happen? Mm, that's a good question. 

[00:19:23] I try to prevent it by, I. Not over booking myself, which is like, like I'm a chronic huge over Booker. same. So I've got strategies in my calendar to block stuff out, you know, like I've got, uh, windows that are blocked for admin. You know, like I'm really trying to be realistic about my calendar, um, and my time. 

[00:19:47] And I mean, There was a time when I wasn't taking two days off, like, and Oh yeah. Yep. For like years. And, um, I had a friend once just go, Marissa, this is like, got to change. This is wild. Or whatever. And so[00:20:00] now those two days are really sacred to me. 

[00:20:02] And so, um, just really being. Strategic and kinder with my schedule and not just trying to cram it all in. Um, and really evaluating sort of like, what does, what does that say about me? If I'm cramming it in, like how is that part of my identity? Like, is the, is Marissa being productive? Like, is that part of who I am? 

[00:20:25] Like could I also Right. Could I also be, I don't know, casual one day, like, do I have to be such a high functioning, high functioning person? And I'm not anywhere near, like, I've not redesigned my identity without that yet. Um, so I, that's definitely a work in progress, but just being really curious with myself about that. 

[00:20:47] Um, I definitely talk about myself. I drive type a a plus plus perfectionist, right? And I'm like, I don't know, is. Is that really all I have to be like, it's almost like [00:21:00] labeling a reactive dog, right? Or an anxious dog, but it's like, really? Is that all who that dog is? Right? And so, um, I think being really curious about that has been very helpful and saying no a lot. 

[00:21:15] Like I, I remember when my friend Sarah Stremming, she said to me, Marissa, have you made a list of what you take as clients and have you made a list of what you don't take? Like can we get some hard no written out so that when somebody emails you, when somebody calls you, when somebody does whatever, right? 

[00:21:38] You can say no. Like, Nope, that's on my no list. And maybe you make an exception here and there, but like you are really clear on what your yeses are and what your nos are, and that that exercise was. Really, um, really like mind blowing because I, I was like, wow, I actually don't wanna do a lot of the [00:22:00] things that I'm doing right. 

[00:22:01] And you shouldn't, and that's burning me out. Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't want to see cases that involve, you know, a, B, and C. Right, right. And so refer 'em out. Right. Like, I don't wanna deal with that. So, um, that exercise was really helpful and I do that quarterly. Like, oh, I love that. That's great. In terms of my life in general, like, okay, I'm, I'm engaging with this project right now and it might need to be wrapped up. 

[00:22:27] Um, I have a cap on engaging with this many, cuz I do shelter consulting as well, so, you know, I can only work with two shelters at a time or so. I'm, I'm very clear about what I can and can't do. And then how I come back from burnout. 

[00:22:44] That's a good question too. Um, it, I'm sure it varies every time too. Yeah. No, I think you're right. It does vary. I, I do. I. I do think taking time off, whether that is, like I have a tendency, I travel a lot for work and then I have a [00:23:00] tendency to travel often, and so that's my time off. But that's not really time off. 

[00:23:05] That's like you're still in let work mode. I'm still, I'm still moving and shaken and, and, and especially if I'm, if I'm going for work, um, because I work with shelters in, in person. Right. And so for me, I'm like, Like, I'm even, uh, scheduled something for next week. It's just like a staycation, like just like five days off at home, just recharging, you know? 

[00:23:29] Right. Looking at, you know, what fills me up? What are the things that bring me a lot, a lot of joy? How can I. Have that space, be really spontaneous and um, just have a lot of space, right. Um, right room for me to engage in whatever I want to, whether that's sleeping or whether that's hiking with Peru, or seeing friends or what, or family, like, whatever that is. 

[00:23:52] So I definitely need those, I think more often than I give myself credit for because I wind up [00:24:00] going, going, going right. Um, I'm, I'm trying to work that into my preventative plan versus going, going, going crashing and then going, I'm in that same boat. Yeah. Like I need some time off. So I am trying to do that preventatively and you know, sometimes that happens and sometimes that doesn't, but, um, but yeah, I mean, being out in nature, hands down. 

[00:24:27] Yeah, always supports me. I mean, I have a proactive yoga practice that I do weekly, like I, I wouldn't survive without it. So being able to be in nature and move my body are really critical for me personally, to. Um, deal with life, period. It's funny you say that because I am the exact same way and I had foot surgery a month ago and I have not been able to be active. 

[00:24:54] Oh. Or be outside. And I have noticed my mental health tank immensely. I bet. I'm sorry. [00:25:00] I. Thank you. But I've, I go up to Josh and I'll just be like, why do I feel like this? I feel so icky and run down. Mm-hmm. And I can't think, and I'm like, oh, I haven't been able to move my body or go for a hike in a month when I am a highly active person. 

[00:25:15] And so I've had to find other ways to offset that, which has not been easy. But yeah. It's figuring it out. And for me, that just turned into, okay, I'll go do some work in my backyard under the umbrella. I'll do a little gardening, like minimal parts where I can get it. So it's, again, it's always finding where we can shift and adjust and change it where we need to. 

[00:25:40] I love that you are looking at other ways to get it right, because. You're right. I mean, some people might not be able to access that for a variety of reasons, right? Or like you said, something, something acute happens and you need, you need to shift priorities. Right? And so not even shift priorities, like shift what you're able to do. 

[00:25:59] And so [00:26:00] I love that you're trying to find it in other areas. And I know that it's not, it's, it's not, it's not the same like in the woods. Sure. It's not the same, but it is, um, it is time outside touching soil and being in nature. Yes. In some capacity. That makes sense. Yes. I could only do so many coloring books, and I know I was, I was thinking that as an example. 

[00:26:19] I was like, oh, I wonder what she's doing. That was over in the first like two weeks. I was like, I can't color another mandala. Put me in the yard. That's hilarious. But I, I, yeah, I feel like a lot of dog trainers will relate to that, that getting outside being in nature, especially with our dogs, is always a way to recharge ourselves. 

[00:26:42] But I think that we also forget that yes, it's awesome to do it with our dogs when we can, but sometimes when we are with our dogs in that element, we are still having to scan the environment, be aware of what's going on, and it completely is all right to go for a hike without our [00:27:00] dog if we absolutely want time to just be in our own head. 

[00:27:04] Although it doesn't sound as fun, I feel like hikes are just more fun with our animals. I a hundred percent agree with you, but, but I, I think you're right. Like if I. You know, I'm, where I take Peru, there's really nobody there on this trail. Right. In situations like that, you can be left. So I wind up taking her, but like, no. 

[00:27:20] If I'm going to walk in her neighborhood, oh heck no. That is, yeah. Like, especially now, like it's so, you know, springtime and everyone's out or whatever, and squirrels, bunnies, all the things, right? So, um, yeah, there are some times where I'm like, I'm walking around the block like it, and, and again, I don't, I, I think that a lot of people think of self-care. 

[00:27:42] Um, like, I don't even like that word. Selfcare poisoned a little. It really is poisoned a lot because it's like a lot of times people go to this, it's either expensive or time consuming, right? It's like massages and baths and like, You know, what, you know, candles and whatever, and [00:28:00] those, that stuff can be really, uh, resourcing to you. 

[00:28:04] I love a good candle from anthropology, like, love it. Right? Um, but I, I really do feel like it can be just, um, Things in the moment, like stand up and stretch or walk around the block or take 10 minutes away. Like, like eat your lunch outside versus, oh my God, yes. Front of the computer or, um, you know, putting your phone on airplane mode or just these little tweaks. 

[00:28:33] I think that is self-care resources. Yeah. Um, and it doesn't have to be this like big event. That makes sense. Yeah. I I guess we could just even start saying it's, you're caring for self mm-hmm. Instead of self-care, cuz it is tainted, but it is, it's, it's little ways that we find time to show up and care for ourselves. 

[00:28:52] Mm-hmm. And it's just little tiny practices. I have a whole episode about how I have notifications off on my phone. I do [00:29:00] not have email on my phone. Like, and that is a way I care for myself because I know that is not good for me. Yeah. Um, But yeah, just, and I think a lot of times we get caught in that productivity cycle and that kind of lumps in with the imposter syndrome and the doubt, cuz it's like, oh, we have to be productive. 

[00:29:19] We're a business owner now. We have to be an entrepreneur. We need to get ahead, we gotta market. Mm-hmm. We have to wear all these hats. And then we get caught up in it. But then we forget that like, oh, we still deserve downtime, but we're our own boss. So it's hard to like have that downtime and you see so many memes of like, you know, I think someone else quoted it of like, I work for that captain, but you know, he runs a real tight ship and it's like, it's, it's me. 

[00:29:45] I'm running the ship. I was just thinking, I was literally, I totally said it wrong. Yeah, no, but I was just thinking that cuz I'm like, God, who, who? The. Who the hell made this schedule? It's like, oh, it was me. Me. Yeah. Like, what is going on here? How do I not learn? Or, [00:30:00] yeah. So I, I, I agree with you that, um, it's almost like if we ha like, you know, we're wearing all, all those hats and. 

[00:30:12] Th there needs to be a hat in there that is like, care for self, like you said, right? Like, it's like that's just as important as everything else, right? We don't, we don't go into a client's home and just skip over wellness for the dog. Like, we don't, right. Stop on the humane hierarchy. And it's like, we've gotta do that for ourselves, right? 

[00:30:34] So, um, Yeah. It, it is one of the hats we, we, it's one of the hats I encourage folks to wear, and I'm sure you do too, considering Yeah. Of your podcast? Yeah. Well, and it's just, I think we, we get caught up in the whole business owner mentality that we don't remember that that is part of being a business owner. 

[00:30:55] Mm-hmm. And that is so important in self-preservation and being able to keep doing what [00:31:00] we do. Yeah. We, you just, like you just said, like we would not pass that onto a client or their dog. We would want them to prioritize themselves with their own time and time for their dogs. But yet we can't show ourselves that kindness and that grace. 

[00:31:14] Exactly. This has been such a good conversation. Oh my gosh. Um, just from your experience, your journey, is there any advice you would give to anyone that is really struggling with prioritizing themself within their business? Maybe they're working six days a week, you know, 10, 12 hour days feeling the burnout. 

[00:31:36] Yeah. I think we, we've talked a little bit about a few different ideas, and that can be overwhelming for folks, um, especially when you're not used to taking care of yourself in that way. And, um, it might be choosing one small thing, like it could be, um, you know, Stopping your day at [00:32:00] five instead of five 30, or, I don't know, seven instead of seven 30 or Right. 

[00:32:04] Um, it could be putting up an away message, uh, to let your clients know when your office hours are. I mean, like, there, there's so many little things that, that you can do and I'm just wondering if. If it makes sense for folks to choose one, choose something that feels a little bit realistic and choose something that feels small, but that can make a, a large impact. 

[00:32:26] Impact, like, yeah, like, you know, in a way message with your office hours. Um, I did that. I started doing that a few years ago. I, I no longer need it, but, um, I. But did it help in the moment? It really, like, it gave me such relief, like, oh, okay, they got a response from me. They know when I'm in my office, they know when I'm checking their videos, they know when I'm gonna give them feedback. 

[00:32:48] Like I was really clear on all of that. Um, and so then I didn't need to rush to emails every. Four seconds. Right. And so that was such a huge relief for me. And [00:33:00] honestly, it was a kindness to my clients. Like a lot of my clients were like, oh, I loved your auto reply. Like that made me Right. They may not be a note in aware of that. 

[00:33:07] Yeah, exactly. And so just choosing something small and being able to implement it and, and if you, if you have a hard time implementing it, think about how you can arrange your antecedent so that you can get. That new behavior, right? So you might even need to break that behavior down, um, into smaller steps. 

[00:33:29] But how can you arrange your environment so that it prompts you to do, you know, certain behaviors? Like, um, I have a foam roller, I have a post-it note, plus I have the foam roller that's out near my bed. So it's like when I see the post-it note as I'm brushing my teeth and I see the foam roller, like that arrangement. 

[00:33:47] Oh, I love that. Yeah. And allows me to go, oh, I have to, you know, roll out. Whatever. Right. So, uh, and that body care is helpful for me in so many different ways, right? And it takes like five, five minutes for me. [00:34:00] So choosing something that's really small and if, if, if, if you're cultivating a new behavior, which you likely are, use what we know about behavior change and arrange your environment to get that behavior that you want for yourself. 

[00:34:19] Boom, mic drop. Oh, thanks. That was so perfect and thank you. Oh, no, that was so great. Thank you for that. And thank you for coming on and talking about mental health with me and Sure. Just supporting the podcast and hopefully helping other dog trainers and professionals feel like this doesn't need to be such a heavy thing. 

[00:34:40] Yeah. I would say too that, um, Our work is hard. I, you know, I think it, I don't know if that, it's like it's getting harder for a variety of reasons, or if it's just that we're learning more and it is getting harder or the be, I mean, the behavior cases are getting harder. I mean, there's [00:35:00] so many variables, especially coming from the sheltering world, why that may be the case. 

[00:35:05] Right. Um, but it is hard. And so I never knew that going into this. Like, I remember. 15 years ago, like, oh, this is so exciting. Like, I've to work with cookies. Yeah. And I'm gonna work in a shelter and I'm gonna help modify fear. And it was just like, it was really all very vanilla back then. Right. And now it's, it feels more complex. 

[00:35:29] I mean, our world feels more complex. Right. And so, um, prioritizing this is necessary, like you said, um, as a business owner and, and like, if you're feeling I. Burnt out and you're feeling overwhelmed and you're feeling, um, tired, like it's real because this work is really hard. It's exhausting. Like prioritizing that is, you know, prioritizing your mental health. 

[00:35:56] Speaking to somebody, speaking to a counselor, talking to [00:36:00] friends, building that network, like, yes, don't do this alone. Because the more we're doing it alone, the harder it is. So, yes, that's my last piece of advice. No, I love that. You're so right and, and we are in a great time right now in the dog training industry where we don't have to be alone. 

[00:36:18] More people are networking. Mm-hmm. You see it all over, so lean into it cuz I know people just wanna connect with one another so that, you know, we gotta refer to somebody. We have to resource out. So connect with people. Yep. And if you found this podcast helpful, you like what we're doing here at the Le Mind, leave a comment, subscribe, like tag us on social media, just give us a little r plus and we'll be back with another episode.