Entrepreneurial Harmony w/Josh & Mandy Boutelle

In this BONUS EPISODE of Season 2 we dive into a very special and personal episode! For the first time, Mandy is joined by her husband, Josh Boutelle, who has been instrumental in her journey into the dog training and dog walking industry. Josh, co-founder of DigiWoof and a key figure behind Woof Cultr, shares his unique story.

This episode takes us on a journey through Josh's early exposure to the world of dog behavior, his foray into the industry at a young age, and how his passion for dogs and business led him to establish successful ventures like City Pups SF, DigiWoof, and Woof Cultr. 

Mandy and Josh discuss the intertwining of their professional and personal lives, offering insights into the challenges and joys of running businesses together while maintaining a healthy relationship.

Listeners will get an intimate look at their dynamic as a couple and business partners. They discuss the importance of communication, setting boundaries, and the art of balancing work and personal life. Josh also shares his experiences and learnings, providing valuable advice to those embarking on similar entrepreneurial journeys, especially in the pet care industry.

This heartfelt and enlightening conversation is not just about dog training or business—it's about love, partnership, and growing together. Whether you're a dog lover, an entrepreneur, or someone navigating work-life balance, this episode is sure to resonate with you. Join us for a deep dive into the lives and minds of Mandy and Josh Boutelle, the power couple behind DigiWoof and Woof Cultr.
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Want to support Josh?
Follow Josh on IG- @joshboutelle
Follow Digiwoof on IG- @digiwoof
Listen to The Digital Dog Pro Podcast
Subscribe on YouTube- @digiwoof
Work with digiwoof
Checkout his software for R+ pet pros- Clicks!
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Books mentioned in this episode & other book recs from Josh:
Your Best Year Ever by Michael Hyatt
Free to Focus by Michael Hyatt

Transcript

0:07

Welcome back to the Leashed Mind podcast, mental health and dog training. I am your host, Mandy Boutelle. On today's episode, if you're watching on YouTube, you're going to see things look a little differently. I have someone next to me in person versus on a screen like I usually do it, but the man himself that got me into this entire industry to begin with. Cause if it wasn't for my wonderful husband, Josh, I Would not have even discovered the dog training industry, dog walking industry in general. So no other than my lovely husband, business partner, and best friend, Josh Boutelle. Some of you may see him plenty from his business. DigiWoof, he is also part of Woof Cultr and how Woof Cultr even got started. But we'll get into all that fun stuff later. I really want people to kind of just understand your history, how you got into the dog training world, because I don't think a lot of people really know that you're, you're the much more quiet half of the business, I would say you're more of the listener and executor, and I'm more of the talker and. Networker. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's why we work. Yeah. That's a nice way to say people pleaser. so babe, how did you even, like, I know a lot of people know how my career got started because of you and we'll get into that a little more later, but where did yours even start? I know it started from a young age. Yeah, so professionally in 2009. So I moved to San Francisco as a 19 year old going to community college, got a job at SF Puppy Prep. started dog walking from there before starting my own business. I got into the dog world, more, say when I was probably 11 or so. So, Veronica, my aunt, your aunt. We had her on, uh, Season one episode two. Yeah. So she was the head of behavior, um, at the SFSPCA, um, in the early 2000s. and so I got to spend, quite a few summers volunteering at the SPCA. So taking Bart over from the East Bay, to the SPCA in the city, getting to, uh, you know, Help with, uh, um, take notes for behavior evaluations, um, you know, hanging out with shelter dogs and whatnot. So, I knew around that age, I wanted to do something with dogs. Was it kind of just natural for you? Because I feel like that's why a lot of us get into it. It just, if anyone has ever seen. A dog around Josh, you kind of get it. They kind of just like naturally float to you. But yeah, it's like a natural calling. Yeah, sure. yeah, so you were immersed in the behavior role like from a young age then. Yeah, yeah. I'd say sitting in on behavior evals. Totally. I'd say for several years as a kid, I, I, you know, got into training, did some clicker training, at that age. And, uh, then Turned into a teenager for a few years and definitely left it for a while. you know, and a go play music and whatnot, but came back to it after, you know, moving to San Francisco, getting that job and kind of, kind of going from there. so how long were you at? So for those that don't know what SF puppy prep is, it's How would you describe it? Yeah, so puppy day school. Yeah, puppy day school. So how long were you there before you decided to start our old business, City Pups SF? Probably two years. So I mean the the first six months as a puppy counselor, um, so like actually in the uh, the day school program, and so working on play skills and whatnot, transferred over into dog walking, probably did that for a year and a half before come becoming a contractor, for for them and and it's, you know, kind of Was like, I could do this on my own thing. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's how a lot of dog walkers start off. Totally. and then you had that business for 10, 11 years? 11, 2011 through 20. 2020. Yeah, so. Yeah, about that. Yeah. It's so impressive to be that young and just say, I'm going to go start my business. And I think that's why. So you started City Pups in 2011. Okay. And so then I met you 2014. And I remember meeting you and just being like, This, you had just turned 25, I was about to turn 24, and I was just like, this 25 year old has his own successful business. He gets to be outside in nature all day, and he gets to be with dogs all day. Like, and I was in a salon every day since I was 18, and I just remember being like, Oh my god, no wonder this guy is so cool, collected, and put together, and has the good outlook. When he gets to be In nature and with dogs all the time. I was so jealous. And I remember you took me on a dog walk when we first started dating. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I thought it was so fun. I'm like, you get to, people pay you to go and hike with dogs every day. And like, yes, there are so many, like, Oh, it was a great job. For we were so active. Yeah. But like, but I, there are so many, like. Scary parts of being a dog walker. And we've had so many like crazy, great. We have crazy stories from being dog walkers and I'm sure we'll share those today, but I think just, I remember that you were looking to hire a second employee and I was like, please like just hire me and we had only been dating like three or four months. Then I was like, no, I really think this could work. And I think I'm curious, cause we've never discussed this perspective, but I. I remember there was a point where I was like, if he hires me, we got to take this seriously because you can't just hop into a new relationship and then work for someone. Like if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And so we need to take this seriously. And we need to like, if this is going to work, we have to approach our relationship differently because when you add work to a relationship, it changes the dynamic, especially when you were my boss. Yeah. For all intents and purposes. So I'm curious, like when you, how you consider that, cause I had to push quite a bit. And I know a requirement was for me to do the dog walking. Yeah. Academy. I don't know. It's hard to say, oh, I'm going to hire my new girlfriend and hope it works. There's some amount of impulsivity, definitely. Um, but there's no right or wrong answer. I think maybe I'm curious if it was like my willingness to learn and the openness of like, yeah, to embrace I mean, I, I, I don't know. I had a good sense about you and like, I just, I just knew, I want to say, but, It's easy, that's the easy answer. I mean, yeah, I, I, I mean, from the outside, that, that appears very impulsive, and. We were very impulsive. Yeah, but I mean, to some extent, like, I, I had, I did have somewhat of a feeling about you, but. And there's also committing to. Like things that you want to some extent too. So, I mean, if. You commit something to something, then you commit to something. So I don't know. It's curious. I think you and I have never really even discussed that. Cause I feel like a question we get all the time is, you know, we've been together nine years married for six. and I think with that, we've grown together a lot, but I think one thing we always get asked is I think the easy way to deliver this question is like, how do you guys do it? How do you make it work? Because running a business. City Pups, Digiwoof, Wo running three successful businesses together and not breaking up in that process and, and continuing to grow and do better and be successful. It takes a lot of balance and counterbalance and figuring out what each of us is good at and letting the other take over in what they're good at, which I think is, I mean, for any successful relationship, it takes that. But I think with business, It definitely puts a little more pressure on you to learn how to communicate with one another because you can't always. You got to remove some of the emotion there and some of the personal feelings and think of what's going to get us ahead successfully and grow. And I, I think we've had plenty of hiccups where it's like, it'll feel personal, but we need to remove that and think of more of how the business is going to be affected by certain things. Like we might disagree on how like to execute something, but we know it needs to be executed for the business. Does that make sense? I think so. Ish. Sure. Yeah. I mean, that's my perspective. Yeah, I agree. Uh, I mean, we generally are the same person and maybe no brain. I think we think very similar, but maybe that's just because we have ADHD, maybe, if no one can tell, I'm the, uh, clearly the more talkative one in the relationship, but Josh is the listener. So, I really want to ask how, I know how you came up with the idea, but I think the general public has never really heard us discuss this, but, because Woof Cultr was your idea. He gets all the credit for Woof Cultr. I never came up with the idea, and so I'm just curious, like, I I mean, I know the answer, but to tell everyone else, like how you decided on that, cause you delivered it to me so well when we were on a dog walk one day and I just, I thought it was such a, like, pipe dream. No, I mean, at that time, I mean, what year was that, even? 2018? No, beginning of 2019. Yeah, well, at that time I was It's like February or January, 2019. Yeah, at that time I was, I mean, DigiWoof was an idea before Woof Cultr and I was already doing some things around that as far as just like it being kind of a side thing and learning and getting, applying the things to our own business. And at that point I was learning a lot about advertising. Well, let's talk time out really quick because DigiWoof started before Woof Cultr, because you spent so much time like creating the CityPups website and updating it yourself and learning how to do it that you were like, I could do this. I enjoyed that more than anything. You were good at it. And it just, it was a natural, like you liked doing it. It was fun figuring it out. Yeah. And then you just decided to like lean into that. like everything else you do, you just, that's what I love. Like, you just decide something and you're like, let's just see where it goes. And so you did digiwoof for like a year to six months before, and then you were learning about ads, right? And, I don't know, I mean, it, it, I don't know how that idea really came. I remember like, friends and, other Walker friends and I always saying like, Oh, it'd be so cool if it said this on a shirt, and I think you just were like, let's actually. Yeah, so I, I mean, I was between advertising and getting my graphic design chops up and learning more about like, marketing and niching down overall and whatnot, it kinda. I think the culmination of, like, experience within that learning all kind of, I don't know, bundled up together. Right time right place. I don't know. I still don't even know how you came up with the name the You never explained how you came up with it. I don't know likeWoof Cultr I mean around creating community and like culture and whatnot the the purpose of the misspelling was specifically for SEO really So, you know how bands Will, uh, purposely misspell a word and whatnot, but that plays into being able to then be found with that specific spelling. So if we would have done woof culture, like typical spelling, it wouldn't have been well as recognizable for one and then two from like that aspect. That's funny. I never knew that. The things you don't talk about when you do that. That's funny. Well, and it stuck. It clearly worked. I mean, we're both wearing WoofCultr as we're talking about this. I always find that funny. Um, that's interesting. I never, I don't know why I never asked you that. And like, there's a, I thought about the band waves. How is it spelled? W A V V E S And so, that's one we were listening to a lot at that time. That was! Oh, that's funny. That's interesting. Yeah, so Josh has a bit of a past in being in bands. You play bass, you play guitar, and you do. You do. And so, I, and we listen to a lot of like, I don't even know what that genre would be. But during that time, that makes sense that you did that. That's interesting. Okay, so there's that. That's how WoofCultr got started. And then I remember that we just decided, like, I somehow I started managing it and then. You were like, , here's my girlfriend. That likes to be the attention you were my you were, was my, we were married in, no, we were married at that point. God, wow. I'm old . Here's my wife that likes being, you know, chatty and network. I didn't you. stepped in. I didn't have to do it. You just kind of stepped into it when it No, but you were like, do the social media. Yeah. Take the photos, make the graphics. You set everything up and then you kind of just slowly went Yeah, I guess I did. Prompt you to like, let's go take pictures at the beach and just kind of having you model and but it was fun. We were having fun with it. It wasn't what I don't think it wasn't like we didn't set goals. Like, yeah, it was just kind of like a let's see what happens. And well, because I think I went in a little negatively because I was like, we're niching down so much. I don't think it's going to turn into anything. I didn't, I severely underestimated how many Dog professionals there are out there and how much they would like nerdy shirts that touched on what they said. And now it turned into a whole community. It's interesting. I think when you go in not having so many grandiose expectations, you kind of open it up. There were zero expectations. Like it was, I mean, it was a theory about like, it was a test. And at first it wasn't even about dog trainers. Even it was just, no, it was really basic in the beginning. Like we made a pity party That's our first design. That did well for like two and a half, three years too. That was pretty interesting. Yeah, we did that and we did like a, it didn't sell. I don't think we ever released it. We did like a Pugs Not Drugs or something like that. We did a few very basic things. And I remember getting our first WoofCultr sale. I was teaching a dog training class. At SPCA? And that was all we really needed to get the motivation to like And it was someone that we didn't know. That was in like, it was because of an ad. Yeah. So. And I think, no, you're right. I remember because they tagged us and I was so shocked. And it was someone wearing like a click, click and treat t shirt. And I was like, oh, okay, this is what you like. Yeah. Okay. And then we started making like reinforcement drives behavior, and then it just, it's, it's wild to think that far back. Yeah. To when I was like throwing t shirts at all our dog walker friends trying to get photos of them and just like, like hustling like crazy, but still not thinking it was going to turn into anything. And we were both, I was walking full time. Training part time, then I would come home and work on WoofCultr in my spare time. You were training full time, you finally got out of walking. You were training full time, training, SepAnx training also, and you were doing digi No, as a hobby. Very, like, background work. Not work, not paid work. No, it's just, it's the pivots that I find interesting. and a question I feel like that always comes up between us and we bounce around a lot, Now that we're in a new state and a new setting and pandemics over, um, would we ever get back to it? Maybe it's like a retirement thing. Maybe I don't know. I go back and forth sometimes, but I don't have the time. So that's all that, you know, the time to train. I mean, I don't know. I feel like you should do one thing and one do your thing. Well. And lean into what you're naturally good at. Yeah, what you're passionate about. But, I don't know, I think there's something to be said about, like, honing in on your craft. I think so, and I mean, I think it's cool that you kind of, both of us, we combined two passions and turned it into two different businesses. You with DigiWoof because you were always very passionate about graphic design and marketing and sales and you kind of just Cross them to each other because yeah, yeah, you should always go with what you're passionate about I mean, I don't know I pivoted to DigiWoof because I realized you slowly were starting to get burnt out of it The training. Yeah, well Like, I noticed I started, I can learn about marketing and web design and whatnot as a entertainment. Whereas. Learning about dog behavior, I, that, that always felt more old school, like work, so, yeah, that's how it felt for me too, like, like learning about it was fun, and getting that knowledge was fun, and I thought it was, being able to apply it for me was more of the, But the actual having to, I don't know, it depends a little bit, so. I don't know, it's, I don't think we'd be where we are if we didn't have that start, and I think it's really helped us in aiding the professionals out there. With that knowledge, because we have that background that I think we can have a better understanding of how to better serve our clients. And I think they appreciate that we have that background and that we're not just someone coming in and like saying like, this is how you do your business. Do you want these shirts? When it's like, no, I've done what you've done. I've I've been there, I've encountered the shitty clients you've encountered and I get it. I think that's what sets us apart. People value that because we. Are part of the community and we, we care about the community. Even if we're not actively training, we're still very passionate and passionate about training in a specific way. Yeah, yeah, even always, I mean, yeah, I can't necessarily, I have a harder time nerding out on behavior overall, I'd say, but when I talk about it occasionally, so, but if I were to talk to you about marketing, you'd get a real jack. Oh, yeah. Okay. So we're, we're, we're flowing here. So why not bring up some questions that I asked on Instagram stories a while back? okay. So this is from fearless tales. Tasha asked, how do you prioritize time together and not think slash talk about work? Well, I'm going to burst that bubble right there and say that. We talk about it. It blows in. Yeah, it's talking to me. I'll let you answer it first. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this has definitely been a harder part, I think, especially What do you mean by this? Uh, like separating and prioritizing and whatnot. I mean, we're in a rebuilding. We, we work from home full time, prior to the pandemic, it was easier to separate because there was, I mean, yeah, you have admin at home and whatnot and like an office day or whatnot. Um, but when you go see clients, you go see clients and when you come home, you come home now. That's. All the time, you know, work is behind that door. Um, but I'd say, like, when we were training, that definitely helped. I, I'd say it still came up in conversation to some extent. and I think I have, I've had a harder time than you of, like, not bringing work into every conversation, I'd say. So, I mean, there, there's, and, and increasingly I have to do it now, too. But. You created a monster. I need to stop talking about work. Like, so, um, I think our saying is no more work talk, so. I think that comes up at least like three times every date night. Yeah. At least. Or like after work, we'll have to be like Or if it's something that we want to talk about and we know the other is willing to engage in it, that we'll be like, um, Okay, I know no more work talk, but like, I just have to say this one thing and then we can talk about it another time. It's like we just have to get it out and then we're like, eh. Yeah. But, yeah, you, you, you created a monster because I feel like when we first were together, I hated talking about work. And then all of a sudden some little like switch turned on for me where I don't know, you made me more ambitious, maybe that's what it is, but like, I've become in to this like mini version of you, you've rubbed off on me enough, but like, now I'm the overly ambitious one and like, I have this idea. What do you want to do? Like I came in this idea just came up and it's like, if I don't get it out. It's not going to plant the seed and so then I start talking about it and then we'll be maybe like. 10, 20 minutes into the conversation and one of us will go, I'm sorry, we need to stop. We need to stop. Yeah. Or you'll be like, okay, no more work talk. And I'll be like, I'm sorry. I just had to get it out. But I think another thing is though, is that we're both anxious people to an extent. And so if we're able to minimize the anxiety by talking through something and just having like a. a game plan. Yeah. Then we're able to be like, okay, let's talk about it. Have an idea for when we are going to do work and leave it there. But at least we know the seeds planted and then we'll be like, okay, now let's have fun. And then we'll fucking have multiple conversations and it'll keep coming back up. But I think we've trained ourselves to be like, it's not work time. Yeah. I think I was saying that it's because we like talking about work though. Like, I think that's a hefty part of our relationship and why this has worked so well because we like, I don't know how to explain it. It's a way we bond. Like, we like dumping ideas and like brainstorming and planning together and like. Yeah, I think we're both growth focused overall in life, though. I feel like that's like how I came to you with the podcast. I was like, we do all these things, but I want to do one more thing. Yeah. And I think it's just, we do little side things here. It wasn't a one more thing. It's a, but it was a different, it's a, it's a different outlet for your creativity and yeah. And so I think work always comes up. I think it's always going to, but I think we've learned how to navigate. It, in a way, and say, okay, it's after six, get the last bit of work talk you want to get in, and then we're not talking about it for the rest of the evening. Like, something we've been trying to do more lately, and I mean, we haven't been great at practicing it, but, um, planning personal time. We're getting better. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I think it's because we noticed we've been doing more work than planned. And it's easy to learn. work, consume all time, if you let it, definitely, so like, planning on, you know, like putting it on our calendar, time blocking for like actually going to do stuff, or like having our list of like, things, like I have my whiteboard of like, like personal, go to a, go to a music show or go to a comedy show, it's like things to check off for the year, as goals, for example. Yeah, and I think it's also Yeah, what you said, like, it's, it takes time, for sure, and I think we've gotten to a lot of points of burnout and overwhelm, and then having to think of how did we get here, and how do we avoid this. Be hitting us. It's hard. So for example, like I told you we were going to talk about this But last week you and I were really fucking burnt out We both hit a wall. We didn't realize why we couldn't work. We couldn't focus we were so scattered Is that how you describe it? Like both of us. And I feel like that's, that hasn't happened in a year or two where we've both been burnt out. And I think both of us were just kind of like, instead of beating ourselves up about it, we actually leaned into it, which is rare, especially for you that we were just like, all right, let's give ourselves some grace. We're not doing so hot this week. Let's have a little more fun because clearly we need it. We're burnt out. And then we're going to come back stronger the next week. And we did. And it's not that we avoided responsibilities. It's just that we needed to prioritize some personal time in order to recharge, to come back stronger for work. That makes sense. Yes. and so for us, that looked like. Getting out in the middle of the day, going for a walk, going for a hike, going and getting breakfast, going and getting a drink and dinner and being out in our little town and not just trying to force ourselves to work when we couldn't work because it was just getting worse. Yes. Like, we both went in our separate offices for like five to ten minutes, came back out to each other and we're like, I can't, I can't fucking do this right now. And we have a fixer upper house. I share that all the time. And one thing we like to do is work on the house together. I think that shows that we're a great team, that we, we have all these businesses together. We'd like to work on our house together, but I think it's just, we like problem solving together. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe. but I think just, just finding those outlets and giving ourselves more grace, which is something we have had to train ourselves to work on. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't feel ashamed about having work on my mind. Like it's something I'm passionate about and like I said, it eases anxiety and it's. It's exciting when you have something that you're passionate about that also can, you know, help with your income. Yes. And life. Totally. And I think when you can turn your passion into a source of income, that's even better. Yeah. Um, another question. Uh, this is from Your Pub Life. Okay. Well, yeah, this, this kind of goes into the last one. Um, what boundaries do you have in place to prevent business from taking over your life? Business is life, I don't know. No, um, I don't know. I mean, I've gotten better about You've gotten a lot better about like telling me to like, not talk about work. No, well, not work. I don't know. I mean, sure. But mean, I've gotten better about like stopping work at a certain time. That's true, you used to overwork a lot. yeah, and just like, putting the personal stuff in your calendar like you would work, and I think that's important, something I need to get better at still, but Well, and I think we help each other keep in check on that, because you've really, you got me to do the whiteboard. I thought it was stupid for the longest time, and then I realized how it really helped me organize my brain. And then I transfer the whiteboard over to my calendar to time block and like, I actually have like a personal calendar and I have my personal time blocks and I like actually block that out and use it. It's taken me, you know, four years to do it, but I finally did it. yeah, one thing we've done that I really like, and I think it's helped is creating a list of like, yeah. So I've said multiple times, we both have ADHD. We both, uh, the executive dysfunction really gets us hard, hard sometimes. Um, and we'll get to the point where we just can't make a decision and then we don't do anything. So we've made a point of making a list of things to do of just like, okay, here's a list. It can be something really relaxing. It can be something really exciting. Like one of the things we have is like one of those like skydive tunnels that you can do, because we're not jumping out of a plane. That's terrifying, but we'll do the other version, but it's just other things that we can say what's on the list. What can we do? Pick it. And I think just having the choices already there visually for us to choose, it really helps us like find out things to do. And I think another thing as far as boundaries is. We have our days off and we do not, we might move them around. You're better than I am. You're right. Well, you do look quite a bit more than I do. You oversee the employees more and you're doing a lot more client meetings and stuff and calls. but I mean, we are committed to our days off when we have them. And I think I've gotten better at saying, like, you need, you need consecutive days off. And I think we've also established that, like, Working on the house, chores, doing a bunch of things is not restful. It might fill our cups. That's why we got burnt out. Yeah. Because the weekend before we Two weekends in a row. Oh yeah, two weekends in a row. We basically did a big the house. project, like eight hours each day. Yeah, we didn't get days off. It felt like we worked full work weeks and then we went and did labor work. Um, and so that's how we, so after that happened, I think the burnout happened that we established, like we can do one of our days. It's a do something day and then the other day off has to be recharging and I had to tell you that last weekend because You kept trying to like do things and I was like you need to let your brain relax Yeah, you don't need to do the things and so I think that's one thing that's really important to me is finding a day Of just like being a potato That's what I told you too. I kept saying you need a potato day. You just need to be a potato or rot. I said you need a rot day. That's what it is. Um, we're working on it. I think we're learning. okay. Got another question from bro. Let's go. New Jersey. They said. Balancing your relationship needs, dog needs, and business needs. How do we do it? I think you're really good at the dog needs. Put it in your calendar. I mean Not everyone uses a calendar! You should! Um, you know, like I have it, I have my routines to some extent. The routines change occasionally, but me and Fern have our morning Walk, which is beneficial for both of us and that's in my calendar and yeah I feel like I can't even go on the morning walks with you because it's like that's your time to like clear your head before Work. Well, no because there there have been times where I'm like, so what do we want to do today? And then you're just like I'm trying to wake up my brain I usually don't talk during this time And so I've kind of let you guys have that time because I'm like, that's how he wakes up. It's not again Relationship needs I mean, yeah, just Not talking about work all the time, catching each other if one of us does start talking about work and not chastising the other when we do mention work and just kind of, you know, being like, okay, like, let's save a time to talk about this because, you know, we, I think we've developed really good roles of this is when I'm your business partner. This is when I'm your spouse. Because I have had times where you've come to me with work and it's like 7pm and I'm like, I need my husband. I don't need my business partner right now. And I think that helps us. Quite a few years, definitely. I don't think that's any marriage though. Of learning like, oh wait. We can't talk about all the time. Yeah, definitely. No, and I think that's what got us to develop these skills because we did. I feel like the first couple of years of marriage, it was like, cool, we're, we're married and we worked together before. We got married too, so that was already a Yeah. I remember, like, we would go into, like, training sessions with clients and, like, a lot of the times they didn't realize we were married. Well, yeah, we kept it really professional, I think. People didn't realize and then they'd be like, You guys have the same last name. Are you related? And Josh would go, Oh, no, she's my wife. And then, like, just then randomly touch me and they'd be like, How? Does that work with like work in our thing was always, you're the boss at work. I'm the boss at home. That was always our, our slogan. And I think it worked, but. I think now that we have different roles, I feel more equal to you. Yeah, you have your own, yeah, you're. Because I think when we had City Pups, I still. That was my business before. Yeah. So now, Woof Cultr is more or less your gig and DigiWolf is kind of my. And I think that. There's crossover, but like from a. We respect each other. Decisions, kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, you're kind of my boss with DigiWolf. And then I. Get your opinion for WoofCultr things. Yeah. You're the deciding, you're the decider for all WoofCultr. Like I've thrown some ideas at you that you've shot down definitely. So say shot. Well, just Yeah, I mean, executive decision. So, yeah, I don't know. Sometimes I, I think it'd be fun to get back to training and doing that. I think our agreement is like, maybe in our 60s, we'll get back to like dog walking or something. Oh, yeah, that was like. Yeah. That's like end goal. Yeah. That's 100 percent the best job I've ever had was dog walking. I think so. Mentally, physically, emotionally, not so much. That was pretty traumatic. That is, yeah. It's either the best job or you're sitting in your car, like, sobbing and covered in sand and poop, dog poop. Okay, well, let's see here. Is there, cause I think the whole reason I wanted to have you on the podcast was to have people, you know, see the side of us, get to know this side of digiwoof/woofcultr but I think also see that you could successfully run a business with your spouse. Yeah. I think it just like people think like, Oh, I can have, right. You might not. It depends. I think just, I think we're both easy to compromise with, I don't know, I mean, or like, we can work things out and like, that's a developed skill because we did not used to be easy to compromise with. I feel like I used to challenge you and like, I was stubborn a lot of the time. I didn't like being told what to do. Yeah. But I mean, we, we both have a rational mind. So, I don't know, just, like, being able to calmly communicate, and Well, and removing the relationship from the business. Because I think that's the skill we've really had to develop of, it's not about me personally. This is about work. Remove the, like, emotional attachment of how this could be personal and, like, really, like, just make this about work right now. Yeah. I don't think you fully can, but I think it's just, it's, it's a lot of, uh Respecting each other and, like, being sure Valuing the other's input. It's taken time to get here. I think we're still learning a lot. Sure. But, I don't know, I think that you helped me a lot throughout my training journey, throughout. Developing WoofCultr and then getting into more of the role I have in digiwoof talking me through the imposter syndrome and making me realize that like that's more of a superpower and something to like lean into. Thank you. But. Because one thing I always admired, like, from the time we started dating, was just you were very sure of yourself. Like, I, I feel I'm not. But I feel like you never really let imposter syndrome take over. You never gave it much space to Like, when you do something, you do it. And you're just sure of yourself, and I feel like that's something that I had to work to gain. Yeah. You just gotta commit, I mean. Well, because I think that's one thing we talk about a lot on the podcast, is imposter syndrome and how debilitating it can be. In just feeling like, I'm not enough, I don't know enough, I'm not, I don't belong here. When it's like, you're here, clearly you belong here. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I've ever because like, even when you were a trainer, you were, I mean, deciding to get into Sep Anx training and then being on Malena's staff and getting into that. That's. I would have had big time imposter syndrome. Big time. I don't know. I mean, it's a matter of, I don't know, I feel like I try to not let my emotions impact that kind of stuff, but rather like see other people that are doing what I want to do. And evaluating, like, what, what is the gap there, what do you mean by gap from, like, it, you know, is it an education thing that I need to, to change, you know, do I need to up my communication skills? Is it, you know, what, what is that thing that I'm, how do I get to where they're at? Yeah. And then. I don't know. I mean, if you've done the, done the work that other people have done that are in a similar situation, then I don't know if that was a full thought, but. Well, I mean, like, for example, like starting digiwoof and, and deciding, like. Yeah, I guess I did have quite a bit of imposter syndrome with that. And, and deciding to just fully leave a career that you built and, and grew into essentially from, I mean, the time you were a kid. Yeah. But I mean, I, I did, I did also want to do graphic design though, like during Oh, you've always been artistic. Well, I mean You have! Yeah, I mean, I went to some college for design and web stuff, so there's some experience there. And then my dad is Designer. So, um, Well, and you were always doing like things for city pups and, you know, you did YouTube videos and I think you just kind of like, it helped you narrow down to what you were better at. And I think one thing that really stuck out to me when we would do consultations for walking and for training is you were always really good at the sales talk and communicate. Like a wolf. It was the communication and, and providing value and helping people understand how to get to what their goals were and kind of delivering it in a way of here's how we get there. This is how we're going to get there. And like laying it out for them in a way that didn't feel unachievable. And I feel like that's something you do now with digiwoof is helping pet pros. Feel less overwhelmed in automating, building, getting their business all fine tuned to work for them, because I think that's just, I don't know, maybe that wasn't a fully thought thought, but I think it's just you are able to lay things out in a way that it feels approachable and achievable to people. Yeah, just gotta break it down. Oh, it's so easy. You just gotta break it down. I mean, whatever you can, you know, split. Hair splitting? Well, I mean, just like with training, you split criteria and then make the things you're doing easy to digest and make sure you remember to Reward yourself. Reward yourself, make the things that you're doing, like So you've been training yourself this whole time. Yeah, like, I mean, you have to Perform, reinforce, like. That's funny how that always comes back. That, like, you may not like talking about training and behavior and stuff anymore, but you. It's part of all life. All aspects of life is around things you're doing, the behaviors you're performing. So it's our environment, how it's impacting us. And I feel like that's something he really taught me of like, like the whiteboard that is essentially training myself in incremental. Yeah. That check at the end of the, you know, getting something done. Cause doing the, you were having a hard time with, like you had it just as. Year, quarter, month, week, but then splitting it down, the week down to day. I didn't do month. That's what it was. Oh, yeah. That's where my, my like, yeah, sticky part was is because I, um, I had the year I had the quarter and then it was what I'd work on that week, but like, I didn't know what I should be working on for the month in the quarter. And that's where like, everything got jumbled up and I couldn't. Split it enough and then you told me to put month and then I realized how to really break it down. Mm-Hmm.. And I realized I need a lot of splitting. I am that dog that needs you to really give me small chunks of the behavior in order for me to get there. Which I never realized You've been training me this whole time. Oh my God. small bits of cheese and just . It's more like buying me a book every time. I feel like, well, okay. Is there any advice that you have for anyone that is maybe getting started, feeling stuck, whether they are doing this on their own or with a business partner? Oh? What would you say to younger Josh when he was feeling overwhelmed and just trying to get started? I don't know. Or what was one piece of advice that was helpful for you maybe? When you were feeling overwhelmed. Slow down? I don't know. Like it's not all gonna get done today? No. You are the one person that is like, I wanna make a course, I'm gonna do it all today. You try to do it fast. You give that advice, but you do it fast. Well, I mean, it depends. You don't like it. They're, they're short. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't know. I mean, if I could remind myself every day to slow down and like You're not, as long as you're working towards something, then, and you keep that in the front of your mind. I think it's, a lot of us, it's hard to stay motivated and stay on track if we're not seeing results fast enough. And I think that's something we've struggled with in the past. Yeah, I mean, I, uh, I mean, a, um, book that I think really helped in, like, the last year or two was, uh, what was that? What was that book? The One Thing? Mm hmm. Really? You'd recommend that too? Well, because I recommend that plenty on here. Is that, um, and then the one by Donna, uh, the one that V always recommends. Do you have it on audiobook? Do you want to look? Because I feel like it's always good to share books that we've learned from. The one thing I rec I It's such a small read, but it's such a Well, I think that that's the one where I kind of came up with the whiteboard, like. You know, what are the things that what are the things that you can accomplish a little bit each day that will work towards your bigger goal, right? Like, you, you have your everything you do should be working, working towards that. And so then being able to. I think that's why I felt scattered for so long is because I didn't know how to break down the steps in order to work towards my bigger goals so that I wasn't really, I was successful, but I don't think I was really setting goals for myself to accomplish. And I think having those Whatever they may be, personal or business, I think having that helps you stay on track. Yeah, You have so many books. Yeah, I don't know. Was it the, no. Oh, it was Michael Hyatt, Your Best Year Ever? Might be that one. It's one of Michael Hyatt's books. Michael Hyatt? Yeah. I don't know. I think that might have been the one that you've like listened to like a few times. No, I've listened to it once. But it's along the same lines as The One Thing. Yeah. Just a different, different flavor. Different flavor. So. No, I remember you said that to me when you first listened to it. You were like, I think you'd really benefit from it. And I kind of rolled my eyes at you for a bit. Yeah. And then I actually read it and the light bulbs turned on. Yeah. And everyone I have recommended that book to. Has had the same response. And I feel like when people read that book, then they understand why we do the whiteboards that we do and stuff. Yeah. It's hacking our brain. Yeah. All right. Well, it's been so fun having you on the podcast and talking with you about this. Yes. I feel like we never like Take the time to talk like this about work. So we do every day. I think not really piecing through our journey actually and appreciating it. Yeah. Yeah. Looking backwards, I guess it's a little hard. I think it's overwhelming to acknowledge all the growth. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's so easy to just be future focused that you don't notice the like journey is actually fun too. Reflect. Okay. Well, I, I do want to have you on for another episode because I think it'd be important to talk to folks about setting up and automating their business in a way that can prioritize their mental health. Sure. That's kind of why you've done your whole software clicks and how it's gotten there. So maybe we can talk about that in another episode. All right. Cool. I love you. Love you too. Thank you guys for joining us on this episode and we will be back with another one. And if you like what we're doing here on the Leashed Mind podcast and you want to help others find us, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on social media, give us a rating wherever you got your podcasts, whether that's leaving a review on Apple or giving us a star rating on Spotify or just leaving a little R plus on our Facebook page. It's all appreciated. 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