{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":1.22,"body":"Take the time, get it right."},{"startTime":1.27,"endTime":5.939,"body":"There's the famous quote from Steve"},{"startTime":1.27,"endTime":5.939,"body":"Jobs, who always taught, because"},{"startTime":5.94,"endTime":9.69,"body":"people would tell him you have to"},{"startTime":5.94,"endTime":9.69,"body":"listen to what the customer wants"},{"startTime":9.969,"endTime":11.349,"body":"and give them what they want."},{"startTime":11.83,"endTime":14.74,"body":"And he said, no, I, you tell"},{"startTime":11.83,"endTime":14.74,"body":"the customer what they want."},{"startTime":15.78,"endTime":16.669,"body":"That's what this is."},{"startTime":16.68,"endTime":20.059,"body":"If you pay attention to what"},{"startTime":16.68,"endTime":20.059,"body":"matters to them, you can create"},{"startTime":20.059,"endTime":22.729,"body":"something that they will want."},{"startTime":23.445,"endTime":28.604,"body":"And pay attention to and read and pick"},{"startTime":23.445,"endTime":28.604,"body":"up just because you understand what"},{"startTime":28.604,"endTime":33.394,"body":"matters to them, that part of tell"},{"startTime":28.604,"endTime":33.394,"body":"them what they want, it only works if"},{"startTime":34.584,"endTime":37.385,"body":"what you're telling them they want is"},{"startTime":34.584,"endTime":37.385,"body":"something that actually works for them."},{"startTime":39.103,"endTime":44.413,"body":"Welcome to Talk Freelance To Me, the"},{"startTime":39.103,"endTime":44.413,"body":"podcast for women freelance writers, 1099"},{"startTime":44.423,"endTime":46.633,"body":"independent contractors, and solopreneurs."},{"startTime":47.193,"endTime":49.503,"body":"I'm your host, Ashley Cisneros Mejia."},{"startTime":49.723,"endTime":53.893,"body":"For more than 20 years, I've worked"},{"startTime":49.723,"endTime":53.893,"body":"as a journalist and freelance writer."},{"startTime":54.213,"endTime":57.913,"body":"Today, as a mom of three kids,"},{"startTime":54.213,"endTime":57.913,"body":"I'm passionate about helping other"},{"startTime":57.913,"endTime":59.013,"body":"women leverage their free time."},{"startTime":59.013,"endTime":62.363,"body":"Freedom that freelance offers"},{"startTime":59.013,"endTime":62.363,"body":"on top freelance to me."},{"startTime":62.393,"endTime":64.883,"body":"We're all about the"},{"startTime":62.393,"endTime":64.883,"body":"business of freelancing."},{"startTime":65.213,"endTime":68.853,"body":"If you want to learn how to monetize"},{"startTime":65.213,"endTime":68.853,"body":"your talents, make money on your"},{"startTime":68.903,"endTime":74.023,"body":"own terms and design a flexible work"},{"startTime":68.903,"endTime":74.023,"body":"life that actually works for you."},{"startTime":74.368,"endTime":76.798,"body":"This show is for you"},{"startTime":74.368,"endTime":76.798,"body":"before we get started."},{"startTime":76.808,"endTime":79.938,"body":"Don't forget to follow us on your"},{"startTime":76.808,"endTime":79.938,"body":"favorite social media platforms."},{"startTime":80.158,"endTime":83.108,"body":"Review us on Apple podcasts"},{"startTime":80.158,"endTime":83.108,"body":"or wherever you listen."},{"startTime":83.348,"endTime":85.968,"body":"And don't forget to share"},{"startTime":83.348,"endTime":85.968,"body":"this episode with a friend."},{"startTime":86.278,"endTime":88.328,"body":"Visit our website at talkfreelancetome."},{"startTime":89.008,"endTime":90.638,"body":"com for free resources."},{"startTime":90.938,"endTime":94.668,"body":"Join our email list to be the first"},{"startTime":90.938,"endTime":94.668,"body":"to know about our latest offers."},{"startTime":94.988,"endTime":97.538,"body":"Thanks for tuning in and"},{"startTime":94.988,"endTime":97.538,"body":"let's get into the episode."},{"startTime":99.134,"endTime":100.934,"body":"Today you are in for a treat."},{"startTime":100.974,"endTime":104.654,"body":"I have my good friend,"},{"startTime":100.974,"endTime":104.654,"body":"Lyle Smith, on the podcast."},{"startTime":104.904,"endTime":105.934,"body":"How are you, Lyle?"},{"startTime":106.014,"endTime":106.804,"body":"I'm very well."},{"startTime":106.854,"endTime":107.664,"body":"Thanks for having me."},{"startTime":108.264,"endTime":110.404,"body":"Thank you so much for being here."},{"startTime":110.414,"endTime":112.474,"body":"We're talking all about your new book."},{"startTime":112.484,"endTime":114.944,"body":"I have a copy, Why Yellow Matters."},{"startTime":115.474,"endTime":116.944,"body":"I'm super excited to get into this."},{"startTime":116.974,"endTime":117.754,"body":"I've read it."},{"startTime":117.794,"endTime":120.244,"body":"I've marked some things"},{"startTime":117.794,"endTime":120.244,"body":"that I really have enjoyed."},{"startTime":120.384,"endTime":121.504,"body":"I've taken some notes too."},{"startTime":122.034,"endTime":124.554,"body":"Can't wait to dive into"},{"startTime":122.034,"endTime":124.554,"body":"this freelance spam."},{"startTime":124.594,"endTime":125.324,"body":"As usual."},{"startTime":125.324,"endTime":128.874,"body":"I always give you a little snippet"},{"startTime":125.324,"endTime":128.874,"body":"of our guest bio so you can get"},{"startTime":128.874,"endTime":130.614,"body":"to know Lyle a little bit more."},{"startTime":130.654,"endTime":134.596,"body":"Lyle Smith is the author of the new"},{"startTime":130.654,"endTime":134.596,"body":"book, why yellow matters and the"},{"startTime":134.596,"endTime":136.644,"body":"host of the story forge podcast."},{"startTime":136.854,"endTime":141.114,"body":"He's been a daily newspaper reporter,"},{"startTime":136.854,"endTime":141.114,"body":"editor and house marketing executive."},{"startTime":141.459,"endTime":146.019,"body":"Agency, creative director, author,"},{"startTime":141.459,"endTime":146.019,"body":"and for more than a decade,"},{"startTime":146.029,"endTime":150.329,"body":"chief of his own consulting brand"},{"startTime":146.029,"endTime":150.329,"body":"story agency called Nymble Smith,"},{"startTime":150.709,"endTime":154.219,"body":"where he helps small to midsize"},{"startTime":150.709,"endTime":154.219,"body":"businesses get their story straight."},{"startTime":154.229,"endTime":157.389,"body":"So their customers recognize"},{"startTime":154.229,"endTime":157.389,"body":"the depth of their value."},{"startTime":157.649,"endTime":161.909,"body":"While you have done a million"},{"startTime":157.649,"endTime":161.909,"body":"and three things in the writing"},{"startTime":161.929,"endTime":165.709,"body":"world, we were just talking about"},{"startTime":161.929,"endTime":165.709,"body":"that before we started recording."},{"startTime":166.614,"endTime":168.104,"body":"Congrats on the book, first of all."},{"startTime":168.114,"endTime":169.104,"body":"This is a big deal."},{"startTime":169.154,"endTime":171.214,"body":"Tell me the path to this book."},{"startTime":171.324,"endTime":173.034,"body":"I know this is not the first"},{"startTime":171.324,"endTime":173.034,"body":"thing that you've written."},{"startTime":173.094,"endTime":175.374,"body":"I've made my career writing"},{"startTime":173.094,"endTime":175.374,"body":"other people's stuff."},{"startTime":176.204,"endTime":177.014,"body":"That's been good."},{"startTime":177.014,"endTime":177.914,"body":"It's been rewarding."},{"startTime":177.914,"endTime":179.364,"body":"It's been challenging."},{"startTime":179.414,"endTime":184.174,"body":"Sometimes this book came out of,"},{"startTime":179.414,"endTime":184.174,"body":"it's really, it came out of a blog"},{"startTime":184.174,"endTime":185.874,"body":"post I wrote several years ago."},{"startTime":185.954,"endTime":187.724,"body":"The title is anchored in that too."},{"startTime":188.044,"endTime":190.064,"body":"It took me a while to figure"},{"startTime":188.044,"endTime":190.064,"body":"out what the title would be."},{"startTime":190.944,"endTime":193.754,"body":"We're all trying to put up content"},{"startTime":190.944,"endTime":193.754,"body":"that people are going to be interested"},{"startTime":193.754,"endTime":197.624,"body":"in and engaged in and drive some"},{"startTime":193.754,"endTime":197.624,"body":"business and all that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":198.064,"endTime":200.564,"body":"And so I wrote this one piece I had been."},{"startTime":202.079,"endTime":208.369,"body":"Scouring my house looking for one of my"},{"startTime":202.079,"endTime":208.369,"body":"running shoes and I realized it's funny"},{"startTime":208.369,"endTime":214.109,"body":"because I found I had two pairs of the"},{"startTime":208.369,"endTime":214.109,"body":"exact same shoe, same model, same amount"},{"startTime":214.159,"endTime":217.449,"body":"of wear, same age, same everything."},{"startTime":217.459,"endTime":219.489,"body":"I mean, it was exactly"},{"startTime":217.459,"endTime":219.489,"body":"the same, same size."},{"startTime":219.949,"endTime":223.549,"body":"The only difference was one pair was"},{"startTime":219.949,"endTime":223.549,"body":"blue and the other pair was yellow."},{"startTime":224.989,"endTime":228.239,"body":"And for whatever reason, I"},{"startTime":224.989,"endTime":228.239,"body":"spent an extra 15 minutes."},{"startTime":229.874,"endTime":233.674,"body":"Searching around my home, looking"},{"startTime":229.874,"endTime":233.674,"body":"for the other yellow shoe because"},{"startTime":233.764,"endTime":240.314,"body":"I had decided long ago that yellow"},{"startTime":233.764,"endTime":240.314,"body":"was better or faster or whatever."},{"startTime":240.344,"endTime":244.374,"body":"And, and I sat down tying my shoe and"},{"startTime":240.344,"endTime":244.374,"body":"I'm looking at my watch and saying,"},{"startTime":244.374,"endTime":249.064,"body":"now I don't have time to get my run in"},{"startTime":244.374,"endTime":249.064,"body":"and thinking, how ridiculous is this?"},{"startTime":249.144,"endTime":250.034,"body":"That I."},{"startTime":250.544,"endTime":252.464,"body":"Spent all this extra time"},{"startTime":250.544,"endTime":252.464,"body":"looking for this thing."},{"startTime":252.464,"endTime":255.064,"body":"That's where I have"},{"startTime":252.464,"endTime":255.064,"body":"something exactly the same."},{"startTime":255.084,"endTime":257.874,"body":"If I were to run blindfolded,"},{"startTime":255.084,"endTime":257.874,"body":"it would be the same."},{"startTime":258.744,"endTime":261.634,"body":"And so I sat down and I wrote"},{"startTime":258.744,"endTime":261.634,"body":"a little something about that."},{"startTime":261.644,"endTime":264.534,"body":"And it was a blog post length."},{"startTime":264.734,"endTime":265.664,"body":"So what?"},{"startTime":265.804,"endTime":267.274,"body":"300, 400 words, something like that."},{"startTime":267.904,"endTime":270.524,"body":"And I put it up and I got some them."},{"startTime":270.904,"endTime":271.764,"body":"I got some hits on it."},{"startTime":271.764,"endTime":273.154,"body":"I got some people who"},{"startTime":271.764,"endTime":273.154,"body":"were interested in it."},{"startTime":273.184,"endTime":275.954,"body":"And my one friend who I had"},{"startTime":273.184,"endTime":275.954,"body":"dinner with, he was visiting here"},{"startTime":275.964,"endTime":277.894,"body":"last week, was talking about it."},{"startTime":277.894,"endTime":279.454,"body":"And he said, I remember when"},{"startTime":277.894,"endTime":279.454,"body":"you wrote that first thing."},{"startTime":280.204,"endTime":283.804,"body":"And I said, yeah, it's, it was"},{"startTime":280.204,"endTime":283.804,"body":"just something that stuck with me."},{"startTime":284.524,"endTime":289.124,"body":"And then, uh, a few years later,"},{"startTime":284.524,"endTime":289.124,"body":"again, I was searching to create some"},{"startTime":289.124,"endTime":292.494,"body":"more content for the, for the website"},{"startTime":289.124,"endTime":292.494,"body":"and get some people interested."},{"startTime":292.524,"endTime":295.374,"body":"I had been taking a"},{"startTime":292.524,"endTime":295.374,"body":"turn to writing shorter."},{"startTime":296.064,"endTime":298.644,"body":"And so I, but I liked, I"},{"startTime":296.064,"endTime":298.644,"body":"always liked this one piece."},{"startTime":298.644,"endTime":301.174,"body":"So I took the piece and I"},{"startTime":298.644,"endTime":301.174,"body":"started cutting it down."},{"startTime":301.619,"endTime":305.669,"body":"And trying to make it just more active and"},{"startTime":301.619,"endTime":305.669,"body":"more direct and all this sort of thing."},{"startTime":305.669,"endTime":308.579,"body":"And it came out to very"},{"startTime":305.669,"endTime":308.579,"body":"much what's in the book."},{"startTime":308.599,"endTime":310.069,"body":"That's really the first"},{"startTime":308.599,"endTime":310.069,"body":"article in the book."},{"startTime":310.469,"endTime":314.089,"body":"And it was, it's, I don't even know"},{"startTime":310.469,"endTime":314.089,"body":"how many words it is, but it was a"},{"startTime":314.089,"endTime":317.669,"body":"writing style choice, almost poetic."},{"startTime":318.104,"endTime":319.934,"body":"Yeah, that's what it reminds me of."},{"startTime":320.574,"endTime":323.774,"body":"If I don't want to claim to be a poet"},{"startTime":320.574,"endTime":323.774,"body":"in any way, but it was just single"},{"startTime":323.774,"endTime":330.724,"body":"lines and a punctuation that maybe isn't"},{"startTime":323.774,"endTime":330.724,"body":"grammatically correct, but it knocks out"},{"startTime":331.154,"endTime":334.174,"body":"the pauses that I want people to think"},{"startTime":331.154,"endTime":334.174,"body":"in their heads as they're reading it."},{"startTime":334.759,"endTime":336.199,"body":"And I was really pleased with it."},{"startTime":336.209,"endTime":341.559,"body":"I posted it up on LinkedIn and I"},{"startTime":336.209,"endTime":341.559,"body":"got a ton of activity and I was"},{"startTime":341.559,"endTime":342.419,"body":"like, what's going on with this?"},{"startTime":342.419,"endTime":343.419,"body":"This is really interesting."},{"startTime":343.419,"endTime":347.079,"body":"And I said, so I think I've hit"},{"startTime":343.419,"endTime":347.079,"body":"on something, probably the style,"},{"startTime":347.319,"endTime":351.899,"body":"probably the a, the, a, the idea and"},{"startTime":347.319,"endTime":351.899,"body":"be sort of the style of communication."},{"startTime":351.899,"endTime":355.059,"body":"So it's real quick and easy"},{"startTime":351.899,"endTime":355.059,"body":"to read and, and punchy."},{"startTime":355.559,"endTime":357.029,"body":"And so I thought, well."},{"startTime":357.464,"endTime":362.304,"body":"I've been wanting to challenge"},{"startTime":357.464,"endTime":362.304,"body":"myself to write post 30 days in"},{"startTime":362.304,"endTime":363.854,"body":"a row, something, whatever it is."},{"startTime":364.454,"endTime":369.284,"body":"And so let me try and come up with a"},{"startTime":364.454,"endTime":369.284,"body":"list of ideas that fit this format."},{"startTime":369.284,"endTime":370.844,"body":"And maybe I can do something with that."},{"startTime":371.194,"endTime":376.204,"body":"So I started doing this and I"},{"startTime":371.194,"endTime":376.204,"body":"did, uh, I got my 30 days of"},{"startTime":376.204,"endTime":377.714,"body":"writing, of posting something."},{"startTime":377.714,"endTime":379.394,"body":"And some of it, they weren't"},{"startTime":377.714,"endTime":379.394,"body":"all articles like this."},{"startTime":379.404,"endTime":381.684,"body":"Some of them were like little"},{"startTime":379.404,"endTime":381.684,"body":"photos and little ideas."},{"startTime":381.684,"endTime":383.904,"body":"And I was experimenting with"},{"startTime":381.684,"endTime":383.904,"body":"a lot of different things, but"},{"startTime":383.904,"endTime":385.374,"body":"I had enough of these things."},{"startTime":385.809,"endTime":390.049,"body":"Banked that I was like, okay,"},{"startTime":385.809,"endTime":390.049,"body":"I really like this style."},{"startTime":390.049,"endTime":393.709,"body":"I like this idea and I'm always"},{"startTime":390.049,"endTime":393.709,"body":"talking about with clients."},{"startTime":394.229,"endTime":397.339,"body":"What are the, what are the"},{"startTime":394.229,"endTime":397.339,"body":"things that matter to me?"},{"startTime":398.049,"endTime":401.519,"body":"Because that's to me, if you're not"},{"startTime":398.049,"endTime":401.519,"body":"paying attention to your audience and"},{"startTime":401.519,"endTime":404.669,"body":"what they want, you have to be, you have"},{"startTime":401.519,"endTime":404.669,"body":"to really be tuned into what matters."},{"startTime":404.699,"endTime":408.619,"body":"Cause like, yeah, I'll, I'll ask, I'll"},{"startTime":404.699,"endTime":408.619,"body":"ask people, they'll write an idea down"},{"startTime":408.619,"endTime":410.009,"body":"and send any, I'll hear something."},{"startTime":410.379,"endTime":411.329,"body":"Why don't we try this?"},{"startTime":411.939,"endTime":415.019,"body":"And then I'll inevitably turn"},{"startTime":411.939,"endTime":415.019,"body":"back and say, yeah, it's, it's"},{"startTime":415.019,"endTime":416.839,"body":"clever, but what does it mean?"},{"startTime":417.739,"endTime":423.149,"body":"And so we spend an inordinate amount of"},{"startTime":417.739,"endTime":423.149,"body":"time diving into what does that mean?"},{"startTime":423.159,"endTime":425.289,"body":"And as a result, why does it matter?"},{"startTime":425.329,"endTime":426.199,"body":"Who cares?"},{"startTime":426.239,"endTime":427.319,"body":"You write this idea down."},{"startTime":427.739,"endTime":431.129,"body":"If it doesn't connect with someone"},{"startTime":427.739,"endTime":431.129,"body":"and what they need or what they"},{"startTime":431.129,"endTime":434.389,"body":"want or what they're trying"},{"startTime":431.129,"endTime":434.389,"body":"to achieve, what's the point?"},{"startTime":434.919,"endTime":438.099,"body":"So I started figuring out these"},{"startTime":434.919,"endTime":438.099,"body":"ideas and I got them all together."},{"startTime":438.099,"endTime":439.319,"body":"And then I, I, I."},{"startTime":439.639,"endTime":440.639,"body":"Collected them."},{"startTime":440.869,"endTime":441.779,"body":"Some of them were posts."},{"startTime":441.939,"endTime":443.929,"body":"Some of them never made it."},{"startTime":444.984,"endTime":451.744,"body":"Past my desk and I had I gathered the"},{"startTime":444.984,"endTime":451.744,"body":"batch of what I thought were the best"},{"startTime":451.744,"endTime":457.264,"body":"of them and I ordered them into an order"},{"startTime":451.744,"endTime":457.264,"body":"that seemed to make sense for me and I"},{"startTime":457.264,"endTime":461.034,"body":"looked at it and I'm like, and I sent"},{"startTime":457.264,"endTime":461.034,"body":"it off to a couple of different friends."},{"startTime":461.034,"endTime":463.834,"body":"And I said, I, I think this is a thing."},{"startTime":464.104,"endTime":465.114,"body":"Do you think this is a thing?"},{"startTime":465.194,"endTime":465.854,"body":"I'm not sure."},{"startTime":466.359,"endTime":470.379,"body":"And so I got enough yeses that was like,"},{"startTime":466.359,"endTime":470.379,"body":"yeah, okay, so maybe this is a little book"},{"startTime":470.379,"endTime":472.189,"body":"or something, and I can put this together."},{"startTime":472.749,"endTime":476.499,"body":"And so I started investigating the"},{"startTime":472.749,"endTime":476.499,"body":"indie publishing world from there."},{"startTime":476.509,"endTime":478.039,"body":"And that's, that's where"},{"startTime":476.509,"endTime":478.039,"body":"the book came from."},{"startTime":478.769,"endTime":479.949,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":479.949,"endTime":480.999,"body":"I think it's so cool."},{"startTime":480.999,"endTime":485.179,"body":"It's definitely made me think,"},{"startTime":480.999,"endTime":485.179,"body":"and it's almost excellent."},{"startTime":485.409,"endTime":485.789,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":485.789,"endTime":490.279,"body":"It's something philosophical, like"},{"startTime":485.789,"endTime":490.279,"body":"ideas about what matters, what matters"},{"startTime":490.279,"endTime":494.629,"body":"to people about connections, about"},{"startTime":490.279,"endTime":494.629,"body":"questioning these things about the fact"},{"startTime":494.629,"endTime":501.254,"body":"that people Are irrational and I know"},{"startTime":494.629,"endTime":501.254,"body":"in our work In the agency life where"},{"startTime":501.254,"endTime":505.874,"body":"we're helping these small businesses, we"},{"startTime":501.254,"endTime":505.874,"body":"try, we look at data, we look at focus"},{"startTime":505.874,"endTime":509.854,"body":"groups, we look at surveys, we look at"},{"startTime":505.874,"endTime":509.854,"body":"SEO, we're constantly trying to figure"},{"startTime":509.854,"endTime":514.914,"body":"out what makes people tick, why do they"},{"startTime":509.854,"endTime":514.914,"body":"do what they do, how can we influence"},{"startTime":514.914,"endTime":517.124,"body":"them to do what we want them to do."},{"startTime":517.654,"endTime":520.364,"body":"And one of the pieces, and"},{"startTime":517.654,"endTime":520.364,"body":"I can't remember if it was"},{"startTime":520.384,"endTime":521.834,"body":"YLO matters or which one."},{"startTime":522.034,"endTime":524.434,"body":"It was which section, but it"},{"startTime":522.034,"endTime":524.434,"body":"was just talking about how"},{"startTime":524.434,"endTime":525.844,"body":"like people are irrational."},{"startTime":526.134,"endTime":528.164,"body":"Like even what you were"},{"startTime":526.134,"endTime":528.164,"body":"talking about with the shoes."},{"startTime":528.594,"endTime":529.714,"body":"That's not rational."},{"startTime":532.654,"endTime":534.844,"body":"But it's, it's meaningful to you."},{"startTime":535.174,"endTime":536.404,"body":"It means something to you."},{"startTime":536.414,"endTime":537.874,"body":"You were talking also about like."},{"startTime":538.274,"endTime":539.484,"body":"Superstitions."},{"startTime":539.564,"endTime":544.254,"body":"And I love how you, you talked"},{"startTime":539.564,"endTime":544.254,"body":"about that being the people, some"},{"startTime":544.254,"endTime":547.174,"body":"people write those things off."},{"startTime":547.234,"endTime":548.724,"body":"Oh, they're just superstitions."},{"startTime":549.224,"endTime":551.884,"body":"But I love how you mentioned"},{"startTime":549.224,"endTime":551.884,"body":"their rituals to people."},{"startTime":551.924,"endTime":555.304,"body":"They're how people get in the"},{"startTime":551.924,"endTime":555.304,"body":"framework and the zone is what you"},{"startTime":555.304,"endTime":557.954,"body":"used to do the thing that we're doing."},{"startTime":558.014,"endTime":558.934,"body":"And so I think."},{"startTime":559.204,"endTime":559.594,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":559.724,"endTime":562.124,"body":"You've definitely given"},{"startTime":559.724,"endTime":562.124,"body":"me a lot to think about."},{"startTime":562.224,"endTime":562.664,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":562.724,"endTime":563.374,"body":"I've enjoyed it."},{"startTime":563.654,"endTime":567.524,"body":"I appreciate you saying so, but it's"},{"startTime":563.654,"endTime":567.524,"body":"funny, it started out as just a bunch of"},{"startTime":567.524,"endTime":572.584,"body":"things that I thought would maybe drive"},{"startTime":567.524,"endTime":572.584,"body":"business or, or connected to agency type"},{"startTime":572.614,"endTime":577.904,"body":"people, or I was saying for a while, it's"},{"startTime":572.614,"endTime":577.904,"body":"for writers or people who hire writers or"},{"startTime":577.904,"endTime":579.674,"body":"creative people and that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":579.674,"endTime":581.724,"body":"But the more I looked at it,"},{"startTime":579.674,"endTime":581.724,"body":"the more I thought it's, it's"},{"startTime":581.724,"endTime":585.424,"body":"more than that really, I think,"},{"startTime":581.724,"endTime":585.424,"body":"because all this stuff matters to."},{"startTime":585.749,"endTime":591.479,"body":"Creative people, I think, and writers and"},{"startTime":585.749,"endTime":591.479,"body":"communicators and hopefully leaders and"},{"startTime":591.479,"endTime":598.239,"body":"founders and people who manage a staff of"},{"startTime":591.479,"endTime":598.239,"body":"people, but it also, I think a lot of it"},{"startTime":598.419,"endTime":604.259,"body":"matters a friend of mine who, who blurbed"},{"startTime":598.419,"endTime":604.259,"body":"the back, my friend, Jeff Simpson said it."},{"startTime":604.419,"endTime":606.659,"body":"And I thought, oh, well, that's"},{"startTime":604.419,"endTime":606.659,"body":"maybe that's what it's about because"},{"startTime":606.669,"endTime":609.059,"body":"sometimes it takes somebody else"},{"startTime":606.669,"endTime":609.059,"body":"to tell you what the book's about."},{"startTime":609.709,"endTime":613.239,"body":"And I, he said, it's really"},{"startTime":609.709,"endTime":613.239,"body":"about taking the time to ask why."},{"startTime":614.319,"endTime":619.419,"body":"And I said, I like it really is."},{"startTime":619.449,"endTime":623.209,"body":"I hadn't been able to enunciate it, but"},{"startTime":619.449,"endTime":623.209,"body":"it's, I think that's really what it is."},{"startTime":623.399,"endTime":627.389,"body":"It's cause sometimes there's one about"},{"startTime":623.399,"endTime":627.389,"body":"take, take the time to get it right."},{"startTime":627.659,"endTime":628.059,"body":"Yes."},{"startTime":628.069,"endTime":628.979,"body":"I enjoyed that one."},{"startTime":629.359,"endTime":632.879,"body":"And I'm sure this coming from"},{"startTime":629.359,"endTime":632.879,"body":"your background and I know it"},{"startTime":632.879,"endTime":634.419,"body":"from my agency background, but."},{"startTime":634.489,"endTime":638.869,"body":"Where you, so, and the newspaper"},{"startTime":634.489,"endTime":638.869,"body":"background in particular, so much is, is,"},{"startTime":639.109,"endTime":641.329,"body":"is based in deadline and getting things."},{"startTime":641.509,"endTime":642.049,"body":"Getting it out."},{"startTime":642.049,"endTime":643.549,"body":"Getting out, get it out"},{"startTime":642.049,"endTime":643.549,"body":"the door, get it out."},{"startTime":643.554,"endTime":645.199,"body":"It has to get out and"},{"startTime":643.554,"endTime":645.199,"body":"it has to get Mm-Hmm."},{"startTime":645.234,"endTime":647.659,"body":", here's the, and and I have always thought."},{"startTime":648.259,"endTime":650.799,"body":"That if it's not right, it"},{"startTime":648.259,"endTime":650.799,"body":"shouldn't go out the door."},{"startTime":651.219,"endTime":653.759,"body":"I think I mentioned it in the book,"},{"startTime":651.219,"endTime":653.759,"body":"but in the newspaper business is"},{"startTime":653.759,"endTime":657.989,"body":"where I learned what a deadline"},{"startTime":653.759,"endTime":657.989,"body":"really is in the newspaper business."},{"startTime":658.389,"endTime":665.959,"body":"When you miss the 11 o'clock deadline"},{"startTime":658.389,"endTime":665.959,"body":"by one minute, 25 union pressmen"},{"startTime":665.989,"endTime":670.029,"body":"in the next building go on overtime"},{"startTime":665.989,"endTime":670.029,"body":"for time and a half for an hour."},{"startTime":671.449,"endTime":673.519,"body":"So that's what a deadline means."},{"startTime":674.179,"endTime":679.169,"body":"Now, in the agency world, if you"},{"startTime":674.179,"endTime":679.169,"body":"miss a deadline by an hour or four"},{"startTime":679.169,"endTime":683.929,"body":"hours or a day, most of the time, it"},{"startTime":679.169,"endTime":683.929,"body":"doesn't really make that a difference."},{"startTime":684.209,"endTime":684.489,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":684.549,"endTime":687.959,"body":"Unless, unless it's a publishing deadline,"},{"startTime":684.549,"endTime":687.959,"body":"a hard deadline where something has"},{"startTime":687.959,"endTime":693.409,"body":"to get printed or produced, it doesn't"},{"startTime":687.959,"endTime":693.409,"body":"have that, the stakes aren't that high."},{"startTime":694.089,"endTime":699.189,"body":"So I think it's important to be aware of"},{"startTime":694.089,"endTime":699.189,"body":"the stakes and it's important to, because"},{"startTime":699.189,"endTime":703.159,"body":"sometimes it does matter, but most of"},{"startTime":699.189,"endTime":703.159,"body":"the time, take the time, get it right."},{"startTime":703.219,"endTime":708.099,"body":"There's the famous quote from Steve"},{"startTime":703.219,"endTime":708.099,"body":"jobs who always taught me because people"},{"startTime":708.099,"endTime":709.719,"body":"would tell him you have to listen."},{"startTime":710.104,"endTime":713.294,"body":"To what the customer wants"},{"startTime":710.104,"endTime":713.294,"body":"and give them what they want."},{"startTime":713.774,"endTime":716.684,"body":"And he said, no, I, you tell"},{"startTime":713.774,"endTime":716.684,"body":"the customer what they want."},{"startTime":717.724,"endTime":718.614,"body":"That's what this is."},{"startTime":718.614,"endTime":721.524,"body":"And it's, I'm not so strong on it"},{"startTime":718.614,"endTime":721.524,"body":"that way, but it's like, it's, if"},{"startTime":721.524,"endTime":726.224,"body":"you pay attention to what matters to"},{"startTime":721.524,"endTime":726.224,"body":"them, you can create something that"},{"startTime":726.234,"endTime":732.224,"body":"they will want and pay attention to"},{"startTime":726.234,"endTime":732.224,"body":"and read and pick up just because"},{"startTime":732.224,"endTime":734.074,"body":"you understand what matters to them."},{"startTime":734.594,"endTime":737.744,"body":"You're not making something the, the,"},{"startTime":734.594,"endTime":737.744,"body":"that part of tell them what they want."},{"startTime":737.804,"endTime":742.634,"body":"It only works if what you're"},{"startTime":737.804,"endTime":742.634,"body":"telling them they want is something"},{"startTime":742.634,"endTime":743.564,"body":"that actually works for them."},{"startTime":744.804,"endTime":747.094,"body":"It only works because the"},{"startTime":744.804,"endTime":747.094,"body":"iPhone is really cool."},{"startTime":748.214,"endTime":751.124,"body":"It doesn't, if the iPhone was not"},{"startTime":748.214,"endTime":751.124,"body":"that cool, it wouldn't have worked."},{"startTime":752.464,"endTime":752.904,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":752.994,"endTime":756.274,"body":"As you were speaking, something"},{"startTime":752.994,"endTime":756.274,"body":"was coming up in terms of trust."},{"startTime":756.334,"endTime":760.654,"body":"Like I was thinking about trust,"},{"startTime":756.334,"endTime":760.654,"body":"because when you, When you don't like"},{"startTime":760.654,"endTime":763.504,"body":"in the newspaper for using if we're"},{"startTime":760.654,"endTime":763.504,"body":"talking about in that context with"},{"startTime":763.504,"endTime":768.884,"body":"news when you don't get it right when"},{"startTime":763.504,"endTime":768.884,"body":"you in your pursuit of speed to be"},{"startTime":768.884,"endTime":771.134,"body":"first, you mess up on those details."},{"startTime":771.134,"endTime":775.204,"body":"Your credibility is diminished and people"},{"startTime":771.134,"endTime":775.204,"body":"are not trusting you to get it right."},{"startTime":775.204,"endTime":779.214,"body":"They're not trusting you to give them"},{"startTime":775.204,"endTime":779.214,"body":"the accurate information that they want."},{"startTime":779.484,"endTime":783.004,"body":"And similarly, in the agency world"},{"startTime":779.484,"endTime":783.004,"body":"where your businesses are coming to"},{"startTime":783.004,"endTime":786.244,"body":"you because they have a pain point,"},{"startTime":783.004,"endTime":786.244,"body":"they have a need, they need your help."},{"startTime":786.244,"endTime":786.364,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":786.694,"endTime":791.384,"body":"And if you, by showing that you"},{"startTime":786.694,"endTime":791.384,"body":"care about what matters to them and"},{"startTime":791.384,"endTime":794.734,"body":"understanding what matters to their"},{"startTime":791.384,"endTime":794.734,"body":"target audience, to their clients,"},{"startTime":795.124,"endTime":800.204,"body":"they, I feel like that builds trust,"},{"startTime":795.124,"endTime":800.204,"body":"that interest, that commitment, right."},{"startTime":800.214,"endTime":803.614,"body":"To understanding what matters to you,"},{"startTime":800.214,"endTime":803.614,"body":"what's going to make an impact to you."},{"startTime":804.374,"endTime":806.644,"body":"I feel like that people"},{"startTime":804.374,"endTime":806.644,"body":"feel like you're listening."},{"startTime":806.884,"endTime":807.044,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":807.184,"endTime":808.244,"body":"I think that's really sharp."},{"startTime":808.614,"endTime":816.709,"body":"And to go off on that a little bit,"},{"startTime":808.614,"endTime":816.709,"body":"the idea of some clients In my mind,"},{"startTime":816.719,"endTime":822.659,"body":"they hire me because I have expertise"},{"startTime":816.719,"endTime":822.659,"body":"in that they think they need, or"},{"startTime":822.659,"endTime":824.409,"body":"they hopefully they think they need."},{"startTime":824.879,"endTime":830.419,"body":"And you, so I bring my sense"},{"startTime":824.879,"endTime":830.419,"body":"of vision and creativity and"},{"startTime":830.709,"endTime":832.709,"body":"perspective to what they're doing."},{"startTime":833.389,"endTime":834.809,"body":"Um, sometimes."},{"startTime":835.159,"endTime":838.189,"body":"Clients just want help"},{"startTime":835.159,"endTime":838.189,"body":"with the heavy lifting."},{"startTime":838.389,"endTime":841.989,"body":"They, how many blog"},{"startTime":838.389,"endTime":841.989,"body":"posts can you SEO posts?"},{"startTime":841.989,"endTime":843.309,"body":"Can you write for me every month?"},{"startTime":843.489,"endTime":844.109,"body":"Blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":844.769,"endTime":845.359,"body":"Okay, fine."},{"startTime":845.359,"endTime":845.889,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":846.199,"endTime":848.959,"body":"But that's only going to get you so far."},{"startTime":849.019,"endTime":852.469,"body":"And, and I talk about this a little"},{"startTime":849.019,"endTime":852.469,"body":"bit too, the, the, the order takers."},{"startTime":852.479,"endTime":855.139,"body":"So you're, if you're, if you're a"},{"startTime":852.479,"endTime":855.139,"body":"real creative person, if you're in the"},{"startTime":855.589,"endTime":862.284,"body":"creative world, like we are, you, your"},{"startTime":855.589,"endTime":862.284,"body":"value is really, you know, Comes from"},{"startTime":863.384,"endTime":866.684,"body":"that you think about things differently"},{"startTime":863.384,"endTime":866.684,"body":"than they do if you didn't do that,"},{"startTime":866.784,"endTime":868.384,"body":"they wouldn't need you in my mind."},{"startTime":868.874,"endTime":875.174,"body":"It's, it's up to us to educate them"},{"startTime":868.874,"endTime":875.174,"body":"on what, what they can use us for."},{"startTime":875.174,"endTime":878.464,"body":"I'm like, yeah, you can use"},{"startTime":875.174,"endTime":878.464,"body":"me for 16 blog posts a month"},{"startTime":878.474,"endTime":880.174,"body":"if you want, and we'll do it."},{"startTime":880.174,"endTime":881.784,"body":"And you give me a list of topics."},{"startTime":881.784,"endTime":885.934,"body":"We'll put them out 400 words a piece"},{"startTime":881.784,"endTime":885.934,"body":"and keywords and blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":885.934,"endTime":887.004,"body":"And off you go."},{"startTime":887.454,"endTime":892.724,"body":"But if you, if you lean on"},{"startTime":887.454,"endTime":892.724,"body":"us a little bit and ask what."},{"startTime":893.969,"endTime":899.649,"body":"Instead of I need this much"},{"startTime":893.969,"endTime":899.649,"body":"material every month ask, here's"},{"startTime":899.649,"endTime":900.749,"body":"what I'm trying to achieve."},{"startTime":901.189,"endTime":903.699,"body":"We're trying to get more"},{"startTime":901.189,"endTime":903.699,"body":"X amount, more traffic."},{"startTime":903.729,"endTime":910.289,"body":"We're trying to drive X number"},{"startTime":903.729,"endTime":910.289,"body":"of sales through this channel."},{"startTime":910.299,"endTime":915.699,"body":"We're trying to, and then let us"},{"startTime":910.299,"endTime":915.699,"body":"design a, an idea from concept"},{"startTime":915.769,"endTime":918.609,"body":"execution, how that might happen."},{"startTime":919.739,"endTime":922.819,"body":"We're going to be a lot more"},{"startTime":919.739,"endTime":922.819,"body":"valuable to you than just"},{"startTime":923.079,"endTime":924.469,"body":"pounding out words at a keyboard."},{"startTime":925.759,"endTime":926.629,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":926.739,"endTime":929.919,"body":"Knowing that end goal, because sometimes"},{"startTime":926.739,"endTime":929.919,"body":"when you're talking about like training,"},{"startTime":929.919,"endTime":934.129,"body":"educating clients and helping them"},{"startTime":929.919,"endTime":934.129,"body":"understand what's possible, figuring out"},{"startTime":934.139,"endTime":936.379,"body":"that end goal, I mean, it's so important."},{"startTime":936.389,"endTime":940.139,"body":"Sometimes I can remember situations"},{"startTime":936.389,"endTime":940.139,"body":"where folks would come up and saying,"},{"startTime":940.439,"endTime":944.349,"body":"I need to be on X social media platform"},{"startTime":940.439,"endTime":944.349,"body":"because my competitors there, or I"},{"startTime":944.349,"endTime":947.769,"body":"need a billboard because my competitor"},{"startTime":944.349,"endTime":947.769,"body":"has, has one and I want one too."},{"startTime":948.099,"endTime":950.809,"body":"And it's, but what's,"},{"startTime":948.099,"endTime":950.809,"body":"what's the goal, right?"},{"startTime":950.839,"endTime":951.379,"body":"Because."},{"startTime":952.034,"endTime":956.054,"body":"There might be other channels that we"},{"startTime":952.034,"endTime":956.054,"body":"should be using to achieve those goals"},{"startTime":956.114,"endTime":961.774,"body":"that marketing, communications, PR, brand"},{"startTime":956.114,"endTime":961.774,"body":"journalism, our clients are not from"},{"startTime":961.774,"endTime":966.164,"body":"that world, so we have to show them,"},{"startTime":961.774,"endTime":966.164,"body":"here's the recommended path that we"},{"startTime":966.164,"endTime":967.514,"body":"think is, will help you get to that goal."},{"startTime":967.514,"endTime":969.974,"body":"Right, but that's, but again,"},{"startTime":967.514,"endTime":969.974,"body":"that's, that's the why, right?"},{"startTime":970.024,"endTime":970.404,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":970.404,"endTime":972.774,"body":"That's why I need to be"},{"startTime":970.404,"endTime":972.774,"body":"on this, this platform."},{"startTime":972.844,"endTime":973.654,"body":"Okay, why?"},{"startTime":973.874,"endTime":974.164,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":974.424,"endTime":975.984,"body":"Why do you think you need to be there?"},{"startTime":976.254,"endTime":976.754,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":976.954,"endTime":977.364,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":977.404,"endTime":978.714,"body":"Let's take a, take a step back."},{"startTime":978.724,"endTime":980.364,"body":"What is it you're trying to achieve?"},{"startTime":980.574,"endTime":981.144,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":981.294,"endTime":982.394,"body":"Maybe, maybe you're right."},{"startTime":982.524,"endTime":984.044,"body":"Maybe, maybe that is where you need to be."},{"startTime":984.654,"endTime":985.904,"body":"And then if you're there."},{"startTime":986.564,"endTime":988.424,"body":"And how do you need to"},{"startTime":986.564,"endTime":988.424,"body":"appear when you're there?"},{"startTime":988.554,"endTime":992.644,"body":"How do you, cause you have every take"},{"startTime":988.554,"endTime":992.644,"body":"it from the business perspective, but I"},{"startTime":992.644,"endTime":994.804,"body":"mean, every person, everybody has a story."},{"startTime":995.304,"endTime":996.604,"body":"You can call it a brand."},{"startTime":996.604,"endTime":997.834,"body":"You can call it a style."},{"startTime":997.844,"endTime":1003.024,"body":"You can call it a, uh, the personal"},{"startTime":997.844,"endTime":1003.024,"body":"attitude you walk down fifth Avenue with"},{"startTime":1003.514,"endTime":1009.644,"body":"whatever, and that you want people to"},{"startTime":1003.514,"endTime":1009.644,"body":"pay attention to or emulate or whatever."},{"startTime":1010.134,"endTime":1013.544,"body":"So we all have this, this style, but"},{"startTime":1010.134,"endTime":1013.544,"body":"we have to find a way to communicate"},{"startTime":1013.664,"endTime":1015.734,"body":"to the people who matter to us."},{"startTime":1016.974,"endTime":1021.674,"body":"In a way that matters to them and if"},{"startTime":1016.974,"endTime":1021.674,"body":"you, if you go at it and say, well,"},{"startTime":1021.674,"endTime":1029.044,"body":"my competitors on tick tock or my, my"},{"startTime":1021.674,"endTime":1029.044,"body":"competitor started a YouTube channel and"},{"startTime":1029.044,"endTime":1034.854,"body":"I have to start doing videos, okay, yeah,"},{"startTime":1029.044,"endTime":1034.854,"body":"maybe, but be sure why you're doing it."},{"startTime":1034.854,"endTime":1036.804,"body":"Otherwise you're, you're"},{"startTime":1034.854,"endTime":1036.804,"body":"just, you're, you're creating"},{"startTime":1036.804,"endTime":1038.064,"body":"a lot of work for yourself."},{"startTime":1038.559,"endTime":1041.719,"body":"That may not really"},{"startTime":1038.559,"endTime":1041.719,"body":"deliver on the value side."},{"startTime":1042.569,"endTime":1043.509,"body":"A hundred percent."},{"startTime":1043.809,"endTime":1047.489,"body":"And, and I was, I, it's, it's hard"},{"startTime":1043.809,"endTime":1047.489,"body":"to talk to some clients that way,"},{"startTime":1047.489,"endTime":1048.659,"body":"cause they're really convinced."},{"startTime":1049.239,"endTime":1049.659,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1049.979,"endTime":1053.329,"body":"And that's why one of the things I"},{"startTime":1049.979,"endTime":1053.329,"body":"do with, with my clients is a brand"},{"startTime":1053.329,"endTime":1057.919,"body":"story exercise and this, this gets, you"},{"startTime":1053.329,"endTime":1057.919,"body":"talk about trust, this gets a lot of"},{"startTime":1057.919,"endTime":1059.699,"body":"trust for me from some of these guys."},{"startTime":1059.699,"endTime":1060.869,"body":"Cause I ended up sitting in a room."},{"startTime":1061.629,"endTime":1064.059,"body":"I try and be with four or five people."},{"startTime":1064.924,"endTime":1069.424,"body":"The CEO or the founder, whoever the"},{"startTime":1064.924,"endTime":1069.424,"body":"top dog is probably a marketing person,"},{"startTime":1070.004,"endTime":1074.744,"body":"probably their right hand person, whoever"},{"startTime":1070.004,"endTime":1074.744,"body":"that is, whatever role they might be in."},{"startTime":1074.744,"endTime":1076.344,"body":"Cause we're working"},{"startTime":1074.744,"endTime":1076.344,"body":"with smaller businesses."},{"startTime":1076.354,"endTime":1078.144,"body":"So it might not be your COO."},{"startTime":1078.354,"endTime":1079.774,"body":"It might be your COO."},{"startTime":1080.274,"endTime":1083.564,"body":"And then I always ask to have somebody"},{"startTime":1080.274,"endTime":1083.564,"body":"have somebody in there that that"},{"startTime":1084.174,"endTime":1085.874,"body":"deals directly with the customer."},{"startTime":1086.304,"endTime":1087.374,"body":"Ideally, the customers."},{"startTime":1087.799,"endTime":1089.349,"body":"Complaints all the time."},{"startTime":1089.559,"endTime":1090.059,"body":"So good."},{"startTime":1090.059,"endTime":1093.319,"body":"Cause those that's, that's the, that's"},{"startTime":1090.059,"endTime":1093.319,"body":"the perspective I want to have when we do"},{"startTime":1093.319,"endTime":1096.539,"body":"this and we start, and we start working"},{"startTime":1093.319,"endTime":1096.539,"body":"through, through the brand story and,"},{"startTime":1096.549,"endTime":1100.299,"body":"and in a real hero's journey kind of"},{"startTime":1096.549,"endTime":1100.299,"body":"way, who's the hero, who's the villain,"},{"startTime":1100.299,"endTime":1101.459,"body":"blah, blah, blah, all that stuff."},{"startTime":1101.819,"endTime":1108.169,"body":"But then we take a couple of hours to dig"},{"startTime":1101.819,"endTime":1108.169,"body":"into, dig beyond those basic questions."},{"startTime":1108.199,"endTime":1108.799,"body":"What does it mean?"},{"startTime":1108.939,"endTime":1110.009,"body":"And then we always end up."},{"startTime":1110.414,"endTime":1113.844,"body":"Having, and my biggest challenge"},{"startTime":1110.414,"endTime":1113.844,"body":"in there is always, it's always"},{"startTime":1113.844,"endTime":1120.904,"body":"with the CEO and it's always just"},{"startTime":1113.844,"endTime":1120.904,"body":"trying to remind him or her hers."},{"startTime":1121.024,"endTime":1125.674,"body":"Go, go with you more, by"},{"startTime":1121.024,"endTime":1125.674,"body":"the way, they run with it."},{"startTime":1125.684,"endTime":1126.644,"body":"They like the exercise."},{"startTime":1126.654,"endTime":1130.799,"body":"The guys, the guys tend to be"},{"startTime":1126.654,"endTime":1130.799,"body":"really rigid about, about what their"},{"startTime":1130.799,"endTime":1132.044,"body":"boxes and where they need to be."},{"startTime":1132.464,"endTime":1134.314,"body":"And, which is an interesting thing."},{"startTime":1134.314,"endTime":1138.554,"body":"I think, um, But, and maybe a good"},{"startTime":1134.314,"endTime":1138.554,"body":"perspective for your show, but the"},{"startTime":1138.654,"endTime":1144.504,"body":"guys, they all do it because they all"},{"startTime":1138.654,"endTime":1144.504,"body":"suffer from shiny object syndrome where"},{"startTime":1144.514,"endTime":1145.944,"body":"they want to move on to the next thing."},{"startTime":1145.954,"endTime":1149.384,"body":"And they, they, they, they see their"},{"startTime":1145.954,"endTime":1149.384,"body":"job as coming up with great ideas."},{"startTime":1149.934,"endTime":1151.024,"body":"Which is, which is terrific."},{"startTime":1151.024,"endTime":1151.554,"body":"And that's great."},{"startTime":1151.554,"endTime":1156.604,"body":"And a lot of them could be really"},{"startTime":1151.554,"endTime":1156.604,"body":"valuable from a sales perspective or"},{"startTime":1156.604,"endTime":1158.124,"body":"a marketing perspective or whatever."},{"startTime":1158.384,"endTime":1163.394,"body":"But in this exercise, when you're trying"},{"startTime":1158.384,"endTime":1163.394,"body":"to figure out your brand story, who it"},{"startTime":1163.394,"endTime":1168.024,"body":"is you're talking to, why, what matters"},{"startTime":1163.394,"endTime":1168.024,"body":"to them, I go through this whole thing"},{"startTime":1168.024,"endTime":1171.284,"body":"where I literally have them close their"},{"startTime":1168.024,"endTime":1171.284,"body":"eyes for a few minutes and just, okay."},{"startTime":1171.434,"endTime":1172.354,"body":"Think about your customer."},{"startTime":1172.914,"endTime":1174.484,"body":"Think about being your customer."},{"startTime":1175.024,"endTime":1180.224,"body":"Think about how they see you and what"},{"startTime":1175.024,"endTime":1180.224,"body":"you do and, and, and what other people"},{"startTime":1180.224,"endTime":1185.594,"body":"do, who do what you do, because it's,"},{"startTime":1180.224,"endTime":1185.594,"body":"I need you to think about how you're"},{"startTime":1185.594,"endTime":1189.314,"body":"going to get their attention and why,"},{"startTime":1185.594,"endTime":1189.314,"body":"why they should give you their attention."},{"startTime":1189.374,"endTime":1190.224,"body":"Cause that's another thing."},{"startTime":1190.224,"endTime":1194.094,"body":"When people read, they, there's"},{"startTime":1190.224,"endTime":1194.094,"body":"studies have been done about this."},{"startTime":1194.094,"endTime":1197.054,"body":"I remember one from the newspaper"},{"startTime":1194.094,"endTime":1197.054,"body":"business years ago, where, where they,"},{"startTime":1197.204,"endTime":1200.534,"body":"they always say people don't read"},{"startTime":1197.204,"endTime":1200.534,"body":"anymore and it's not exactly true."},{"startTime":1200.564,"endTime":1203.244,"body":"They, they, they read, they"},{"startTime":1200.564,"endTime":1203.244,"body":"will grant you their time."},{"startTime":1203.769,"endTime":1209.379,"body":"In about 5 second increments, and"},{"startTime":1203.769,"endTime":1209.379,"body":"if you're still valuable to them"},{"startTime":1209.379,"endTime":1213.569,"body":"after 5 seconds, they'll give"},{"startTime":1209.379,"endTime":1213.569,"body":"you another 5 seconds and they"},{"startTime":1213.569,"endTime":1214.869,"body":"never give you the whole article."},{"startTime":1215.459,"endTime":1217.039,"body":"They'll give you 5 seconds at a time."},{"startTime":1217.589,"endTime":1219.059,"body":"And so when you write."},{"startTime":1219.619,"endTime":1221.199,"body":"It's good to keep that in mind."},{"startTime":1221.209,"endTime":1224.699,"body":"That's what I found writing this stuff"},{"startTime":1221.209,"endTime":1224.699,"body":"was the short sentences, the short ideas,"},{"startTime":1224.759,"endTime":1227.999,"body":"it keeps you moving along in the idea."},{"startTime":1228.689,"endTime":1232.739,"body":"So try and write like Hemingway people,"},{"startTime":1228.689,"endTime":1232.739,"body":"you will lose them because they only"},{"startTime":1232.739,"endTime":1235.239,"body":"grant you their time in very short bits."},{"startTime":1235.819,"endTime":1237.539,"body":"And once you lose them, they're gone."},{"startTime":1237.639,"endTime":1239.144,"body":"So same with the CEO."},{"startTime":1239.144,"endTime":1241.779,"body":"I have to keep reminding"},{"startTime":1239.144,"endTime":1241.779,"body":"them, no, great idea."},{"startTime":1241.819,"endTime":1242.129,"body":"Love it."},{"startTime":1242.129,"endTime":1242.589,"body":"Make a note."},{"startTime":1243.209,"endTime":1246.139,"body":"But you're talking to me"},{"startTime":1243.209,"endTime":1246.139,"body":"through your CEO eyes."},{"startTime":1246.139,"endTime":1247.689,"body":"I need you to think"},{"startTime":1246.139,"endTime":1247.689,"body":"through your customer eyes."},{"startTime":1247.689,"endTime":1249.699,"body":"And I am constantly"},{"startTime":1247.689,"endTime":1249.699,"body":"reminding them to do that."},{"startTime":1250.299,"endTime":1253.589,"body":"And when I can do that, we come up"},{"startTime":1250.299,"endTime":1253.589,"body":"with something pretty fantastic."},{"startTime":1254.119,"endTime":1256.089,"body":"So it's fun that way."},{"startTime":1256.754,"endTime":1260.294,"body":"I love that you include all"},{"startTime":1256.754,"endTime":1260.294,"body":"of those folks in those, those"},{"startTime":1260.304,"endTime":1261.844,"body":"brand storytelling sessions."},{"startTime":1262.334,"endTime":1267.944,"body":"It makes me think almost of families too,"},{"startTime":1262.334,"endTime":1267.944,"body":"because as parents, I know you have a son."},{"startTime":1268.004,"endTime":1269.194,"body":"I've got three kids here."},{"startTime":1269.714,"endTime":1272.964,"body":"And as parents, we have our kids."},{"startTime":1273.214,"endTime":1274.104,"body":"We see them."},{"startTime":1274.314,"endTime":1275.714,"body":"We welcome them into the world."},{"startTime":1275.844,"endTime":1280.544,"body":"We decide what their name is going to"},{"startTime":1275.844,"endTime":1280.544,"body":"be, but then they decide who they are."},{"startTime":1280.654,"endTime":1282.124,"body":"And I feel like they slowly."},{"startTime":1282.799,"endTime":1286.039,"body":"Reveal themselves to us who they"},{"startTime":1282.799,"endTime":1286.039,"body":"are, what their ideas about the"},{"startTime":1286.039,"endTime":1288.719,"body":"world, and we can try to influence"},{"startTime":1286.039,"endTime":1288.719,"body":"those things, but they really become"},{"startTime":1288.719,"endTime":1291.939,"body":"their own person, and we want them"},{"startTime":1288.719,"endTime":1291.939,"body":"to become their own person, right?"},{"startTime":1292.209,"endTime":1297.459,"body":"Similarly, with a company, I"},{"startTime":1292.209,"endTime":1297.459,"body":"feel like founders, it's hard."},{"startTime":1297.479,"endTime":1300.759,"body":"It's hard to get them to"},{"startTime":1297.479,"endTime":1300.759,"body":"step away and realize that."},{"startTime":1301.039,"endTime":1306.529,"body":"What they intended their company to be"},{"startTime":1301.039,"endTime":1306.529,"body":"and what was in their brain first, once"},{"startTime":1306.609,"endTime":1311.239,"body":"it was released into the world, and you've"},{"startTime":1306.609,"endTime":1311.239,"body":"got all of these people that become part"},{"startTime":1311.239,"endTime":1315.079,"body":"of the team and the customers will come"},{"startTime":1311.239,"endTime":1315.079,"body":"and tell you, yes, that's what I want."},{"startTime":1315.079,"endTime":1317.679,"body":"You were close, but this"},{"startTime":1315.079,"endTime":1317.679,"body":"is really what I want."},{"startTime":1318.279,"endTime":1322.519,"body":"That that company takes on its own"},{"startTime":1318.279,"endTime":1322.519,"body":"personality and becomes this entity"},{"startTime":1322.659,"endTime":1325.139,"body":"separate from the genius of the founder."},{"startTime":1325.799,"endTime":1327.609,"body":"And sometimes I feel like."},{"startTime":1327.964,"endTime":1334.814,"body":"That is the friction and the resistance"},{"startTime":1327.964,"endTime":1334.814,"body":"is getting the founder to understand that"},{"startTime":1334.944,"endTime":1340.964,"body":"that entity, that company, that product,"},{"startTime":1334.944,"endTime":1340.964,"body":"that service, that may look different."},{"startTime":1341.004,"endTime":1341.424,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1341.434,"endTime":1341.754,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1341.804,"endTime":1342.284,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1342.604,"endTime":1344.024,"body":"That's a fascinating metaphor."},{"startTime":1344.044,"endTime":1345.994,"body":"And it made me think of two things."},{"startTime":1346.924,"endTime":1351.104,"body":"One, as a writer, when you're writing,"},{"startTime":1346.924,"endTime":1351.104,"body":"cause I write fiction as well, and"},{"startTime":1351.104,"endTime":1354.024,"body":"I've written plays and things where"},{"startTime":1351.104,"endTime":1354.024,"body":"you're writing a character and the"},{"startTime":1354.024,"endTime":1355.544,"body":"characters go off and do their things."},{"startTime":1355.894,"endTime":1358.444,"body":"And I always used to say, and people,"},{"startTime":1355.894,"endTime":1358.444,"body":"my friends of mine would laugh at me"},{"startTime":1358.444,"endTime":1361.494,"body":"when I said this and I said, and I'd"},{"startTime":1358.444,"endTime":1361.494,"body":"get frustrated and say, the characters"},{"startTime":1361.494,"endTime":1363.014,"body":"won't do what I want them to do."},{"startTime":1364.714,"endTime":1365.664,"body":"That's cool."},{"startTime":1365.714,"endTime":1367.894,"body":"And they're like, but you,"},{"startTime":1365.714,"endTime":1367.894,"body":"but they're your characters."},{"startTime":1367.894,"endTime":1368.294,"body":"You're right."},{"startTime":1368.294,"endTime":1368.974,"body":"Yeah, I did."},{"startTime":1368.974,"endTime":1370.194,"body":"But they're not, they don't belong to me."},{"startTime":1370.194,"endTime":1371.464,"body":"They just won't behave."},{"startTime":1371.464,"endTime":1372.524,"body":"You made a good one."},{"startTime":1372.789,"endTime":1375.859,"body":"The same as a company, if you made a good"},{"startTime":1372.789,"endTime":1375.859,"body":"one, it's going to go do its own thing."},{"startTime":1376.169,"endTime":1380.559,"body":"And a couple of times in my life,"},{"startTime":1376.169,"endTime":1380.559,"body":"I've had, I've worked for an agency"},{"startTime":1380.589,"endTime":1383.439,"body":"and a couple of businesses that, that"},{"startTime":1380.589,"endTime":1383.439,"body":"got acquired by another business."},{"startTime":1384.999,"endTime":1388.389,"body":"And so it's a smaller business,"},{"startTime":1384.999,"endTime":1388.389,"body":"usually with one founder or lead"},{"startTime":1388.389,"endTime":1390.939,"body":"personality, and then they get."},{"startTime":1391.354,"endTime":1397.634,"body":"Bought out by somebody else, it was"},{"startTime":1391.354,"endTime":1397.634,"body":"hysterical because it happened twice,"},{"startTime":1397.804,"endTime":1403.384,"body":"three times really, but twice where"},{"startTime":1397.804,"endTime":1403.384,"body":"they fight it every, the deal's done,"},{"startTime":1403.394,"endTime":1408.744,"body":"they've made gobs of money on it,"},{"startTime":1403.394,"endTime":1408.744,"body":"they're great, they keep them there"},{"startTime":1408.754,"endTime":1413.314,"body":"for in a president role or an advisory"},{"startTime":1408.754,"endTime":1413.314,"body":"role or whatever it is, they keep"},{"startTime":1413.314,"endTime":1416.784,"body":"them in and then the business gets,"},{"startTime":1413.314,"endTime":1416.784,"body":"becomes part of this larger business."},{"startTime":1417.834,"endTime":1423.794,"body":"And then it starts to change and they,"},{"startTime":1417.834,"endTime":1423.794,"body":"and they get frustrated and because,"},{"startTime":1424.284,"endTime":1427.644,"body":"because when, and I was, I was laughing"},{"startTime":1424.284,"endTime":1427.644,"body":"because I always just say, when, when"},{"startTime":1427.644,"endTime":1430.529,"body":"you sell your business, It's happened."},{"startTime":1430.569,"endTime":1432.099,"body":"My, my, my father in law happened."},{"startTime":1432.099,"endTime":1434.749,"body":"He was a veterinarian and he sold"},{"startTime":1432.099,"endTime":1434.749,"body":"his, he sold his practice and"},{"startTime":1434.749,"endTime":1435.599,"body":"they kept him there for a while."},{"startTime":1435.599,"endTime":1436.409,"body":"They transition."},{"startTime":1436.869,"endTime":1441.599,"body":"And he, and it's like, when you sell"},{"startTime":1436.869,"endTime":1441.599,"body":"your business, it is not yours anymore."},{"startTime":1441.599,"endTime":1443.809,"body":"It doesn't belong to you anymore."},{"startTime":1443.819,"endTime":1447.059,"body":"You don't have that kind of control"},{"startTime":1443.819,"endTime":1447.059,"body":"and controls a little bit of a phantom"},{"startTime":1447.059,"endTime":1452.579,"body":"anyway, but it's, uh, and they really"},{"startTime":1447.059,"endTime":1452.579,"body":"struggled with it to the point where"},{"startTime":1452.579,"endTime":1458.599,"body":"I won one, One time, and this may be a"},{"startTime":1452.579,"endTime":1458.599,"body":"story for a whole nother episode, the"},{"startTime":1458.599,"endTime":1464.209,"body":"guy who had been, who had been CEO of the"},{"startTime":1458.599,"endTime":1464.209,"body":"smaller company was kept in and whatever."},{"startTime":1464.209,"endTime":1466.269,"body":"And then he had, he had been"},{"startTime":1464.209,"endTime":1466.269,"body":"working behind the scenes because"},{"startTime":1466.269,"endTime":1468.469,"body":"he wanted to take over the larger"},{"startTime":1466.269,"endTime":1468.469,"body":"company and all this stuff."},{"startTime":1468.469,"endTime":1473.269,"body":"So a year, almost a year to the, to"},{"startTime":1468.469,"endTime":1473.269,"body":"the day, like his contract was up."},{"startTime":1473.429,"endTime":1473.749,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1473.759,"endTime":1474.789,"body":"The year to the day."},{"startTime":1475.169,"endTime":1477.809,"body":"And they met him at the door and"},{"startTime":1475.169,"endTime":1477.809,"body":"escorted him out of the building."},{"startTime":1478.769,"endTime":1482.949,"body":"Oh, no, that's a little bit"},{"startTime":1478.769,"endTime":1482.949,"body":"of a rude awakening, right?"},{"startTime":1483.419,"endTime":1484.469,"body":"Talk about rude awakening."},{"startTime":1484.829,"endTime":1486.399,"body":"Yeah, it was rough."},{"startTime":1486.479,"endTime":1489.749,"body":"And he's gone on to do very well for"},{"startTime":1486.479,"endTime":1489.749,"body":"himself and other, other companies."},{"startTime":1489.759,"endTime":1490.739,"body":"So it's not, I'm not."},{"startTime":1491.349,"endTime":1492.009,"body":"And I won't name them."},{"startTime":1492.029,"endTime":1494.749,"body":"So I'm not speaking out of school,"},{"startTime":1492.029,"endTime":1494.749,"body":"but it was, it was, I was, I"},{"startTime":1494.749,"endTime":1496.069,"body":"happened to be there that morning."},{"startTime":1496.219,"endTime":1500.139,"body":"Cause I, I used to take the, I used to"},{"startTime":1496.219,"endTime":1500.139,"body":"commute from New Jersey into New York."},{"startTime":1500.739,"endTime":1502.919,"body":"And so I was there"},{"startTime":1500.739,"endTime":1502.919,"body":"earlier than most people."},{"startTime":1503.539,"endTime":1507.769,"body":"And so I saw this whole thing transpire"},{"startTime":1503.539,"endTime":1507.769,"body":"on the floor and I was like, wow,"},{"startTime":1509.249,"endTime":1510.379,"body":"I'm just going to keep my head down."},{"startTime":1512.739,"endTime":1513.949,"body":"Yeah, that's, that's."},{"startTime":1514.319,"endTime":1515.049,"body":"That's major."},{"startTime":1515.089,"endTime":1515.939,"body":"That's a major."},{"startTime":1516.359,"endTime":1518.159,"body":"It was, it was wild."},{"startTime":1518.159,"endTime":1519.149,"body":"It was wild."},{"startTime":1519.189,"endTime":1520.569,"body":"And but, but that's how it is."},{"startTime":1520.569,"endTime":1525.989,"body":"But, but like you say, as, as the CEO,"},{"startTime":1520.569,"endTime":1525.989,"body":"these things take on their own life."},{"startTime":1526.559,"endTime":1529.599,"body":"And the larger they grow, I'm"},{"startTime":1526.559,"endTime":1529.599,"body":"working with a client now that's,"},{"startTime":1529.639,"endTime":1532.519,"body":"that's basically doubled their size"},{"startTime":1529.639,"endTime":1532.519,"body":"in the last two and a half years."},{"startTime":1532.959,"endTime":1533.979,"body":"And it's there."},{"startTime":1533.999,"endTime":1537.749,"body":"So they're wrestling with that"},{"startTime":1533.999,"endTime":1537.749,"body":"and how it's, and it's a, it's a"},{"startTime":1537.749,"endTime":1539.189,"body":"hundred year old family business."},{"startTime":1539.189,"endTime":1539.439,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1540.169,"endTime":1541.619,"body":"And they're growing like crazy."},{"startTime":1541.709,"endTime":1544.309,"body":"And it's like, wow, that's gotta be rough."},{"startTime":1545.294,"endTime":1549.314,"body":"To see where it's headed and really,"},{"startTime":1545.294,"endTime":1549.314,"body":"and you try and control and control,"},{"startTime":1549.314,"endTime":1550.524,"body":"maybe the wrong word for it."},{"startTime":1550.524,"endTime":1552.014,"body":"I think it's just direct."},{"startTime":1552.044,"endTime":1558.234,"body":"Maybe you, you just kinda, you, you, you"},{"startTime":1552.044,"endTime":1558.234,"body":"pull the sheets on the, on the sailing"},{"startTime":1558.494,"endTime":1561.344,"body":"vessel and try and guide it in the wind."},{"startTime":1561.484,"endTime":1563.024,"body":"Cause you can't really control it."},{"startTime":1563.074,"endTime":1564.884,"body":"You can only guide it through."},{"startTime":1565.764,"endTime":1567.949,"body":"And, It's interesting."},{"startTime":1567.959,"endTime":1570.159,"body":"It's fun to watch because"},{"startTime":1567.959,"endTime":1570.159,"body":"I'm outside of it too."},{"startTime":1570.209,"endTime":1571.909,"body":"So, right, right."},{"startTime":1572.589,"endTime":1574.039,"body":"That's so interesting."},{"startTime":1574.089,"endTime":1577.009,"body":"And you talked about there were"},{"startTime":1574.089,"endTime":1577.009,"body":"pieces that you were in the process"},{"startTime":1577.009,"endTime":1581.839,"body":"of writing your book that never made"},{"startTime":1577.009,"endTime":1581.839,"body":"it past your desk that you discarded."},{"startTime":1581.839,"endTime":1586.949,"body":"How did what criteria did you use"},{"startTime":1581.839,"endTime":1586.949,"body":"to decide this is what's going in?"},{"startTime":1586.949,"endTime":1588.079,"body":"This is what's not."},{"startTime":1588.159,"endTime":1593.444,"body":"And how did when it was done and"},{"startTime":1588.159,"endTime":1593.444,"body":"well, It's funny you mentioned,"},{"startTime":1593.444,"endTime":1597.544,"body":"I had one in there that I had"},{"startTime":1593.444,"endTime":1597.544,"body":"written for my son or with my son"},{"startTime":1597.544,"endTime":1602.014,"body":"in mind, because I was carpooling"},{"startTime":1597.544,"endTime":1602.014,"body":"with he and his friend to school."},{"startTime":1602.514,"endTime":1604.984,"body":"And I always like to listen"},{"startTime":1602.514,"endTime":1604.984,"body":"to one type of music."},{"startTime":1606.044,"endTime":1606.424,"body":"And."},{"startTime":1607.099,"endTime":1608.629,"body":"They prefer something else."},{"startTime":1608.669,"endTime":1611.549,"body":"And so they would talk about this"},{"startTime":1608.669,"endTime":1611.549,"body":"and that and the other thing."},{"startTime":1611.549,"endTime":1614.259,"body":"And I'd talk about God"},{"startTime":1611.549,"endTime":1614.259,"body":"and I had the radio on."},{"startTime":1614.259,"endTime":1619.979,"body":"I didn't have the, I didn't have any"},{"startTime":1614.259,"endTime":1619.979,"body":"satellite or, or, or Bluetooth anything."},{"startTime":1620.299,"endTime":1621.609,"body":"So they were like, Oh, skip this song."},{"startTime":1621.689,"endTime":1621.889,"body":"Skip."},{"startTime":1621.919,"endTime":1623.979,"body":"And I'm like, I can't, it's the radio."},{"startTime":1624.229,"endTime":1624.549,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1624.914,"endTime":1627.564,"body":"And I'm like, they have"},{"startTime":1624.914,"endTime":1627.564,"body":"no concept of the radio."},{"startTime":1628.414,"endTime":1629.594,"body":"And I'm like, this is really funny."},{"startTime":1629.594,"endTime":1632.454,"body":"So I wrote this piece about music"},{"startTime":1629.594,"endTime":1632.454,"body":"and getting exposed to music."},{"startTime":1632.454,"endTime":1636.114,"body":"And how do you learn new stuff"},{"startTime":1632.454,"endTime":1636.114,"body":"and get new bands for me?"},{"startTime":1636.154,"endTime":1639.134,"body":"So it was always rock and roll bands, but"},{"startTime":1636.154,"endTime":1639.134,"body":"it's whatever type of music you listen to."},{"startTime":1639.134,"endTime":1640.394,"body":"How do you get exposed to this stuff?"},{"startTime":1640.844,"endTime":1642.024,"body":"And it was, it was a nice piece."},{"startTime":1642.024,"endTime":1642.744,"body":"It was all right."},{"startTime":1642.804,"endTime":1648.084,"body":"And it, but I had it in the original"},{"startTime":1642.804,"endTime":1648.084,"body":"manuscript and I ended up working with."},{"startTime":1648.884,"endTime":1653.264,"body":"One very close friend of mine, Rocket"},{"startTime":1648.884,"endTime":1653.264,"body":"is his name and he, he did the,"},{"startTime":1653.294,"endTime":1656.734,"body":"I'm pointing, he did the design of"},{"startTime":1653.294,"endTime":1656.734,"body":"the cover, which I absolutely love"},{"startTime":1657.424,"endTime":1658.294,"body":"a couple of different versions."},{"startTime":1658.294,"endTime":1662.444,"body":"I love them all and he, he helped me with"},{"startTime":1658.294,"endTime":1662.444,"body":"the layout and the design of the book."},{"startTime":1662.444,"endTime":1665.444,"body":"And so he read everything"},{"startTime":1662.444,"endTime":1665.444,"body":"and, and he's a really sharp."},{"startTime":1666.729,"endTime":1669.329,"body":"He will say he's not a writer,"},{"startTime":1666.729,"endTime":1669.329,"body":"but he's, he's quite good."},{"startTime":1669.919,"endTime":1672.239,"body":"And he pointed that one out"},{"startTime":1669.919,"endTime":1672.239,"body":"and he was like, no, that's, I"},{"startTime":1672.329,"endTime":1673.089,"body":"don't know if that really fits."},{"startTime":1673.839,"endTime":1676.629,"body":"I mean, I'm not sure exactly what,"},{"startTime":1673.839,"endTime":1676.629,"body":"and I rewrote it because once the"},{"startTime":1676.639,"endTime":1679.049,"body":"first time it was like, I'm not sure,"},{"startTime":1676.639,"endTime":1679.049,"body":"I'm not sure exactly what it means."},{"startTime":1679.699,"endTime":1681.629,"body":"And then I went back and looked"},{"startTime":1679.699,"endTime":1681.629,"body":"at it and I rewrote it and"},{"startTime":1681.629,"endTime":1682.479,"body":"he said, nah, this is bad."},{"startTime":1682.479,"endTime":1682.859,"body":"I like it."},{"startTime":1682.859,"endTime":1684.789,"body":"It's much better, but I"},{"startTime":1682.859,"endTime":1684.789,"body":"still don't think it fits."},{"startTime":1685.259,"endTime":1688.579,"body":"I'm like, okay, so I went and grabbed"},{"startTime":1685.259,"endTime":1688.579,"body":"another one and I, I slotted a couple"},{"startTime":1688.579,"endTime":1693.179,"body":"interests to trying to figure out which"},{"startTime":1688.579,"endTime":1693.179,"body":"ones fit and the book it's the book"},{"startTime":1693.179,"endTime":1697.699,"body":"is, is divided into three sections"},{"startTime":1693.179,"endTime":1697.699,"body":"where it's like thinking things,"},{"startTime":1697.749,"endTime":1699.249,"body":"deciding things and writing things."},{"startTime":1699.899,"endTime":1703.719,"body":"And the ones that fit those"},{"startTime":1699.899,"endTime":1703.719,"body":"categories stayed in the book."},{"startTime":1703.959,"endTime":1707.289,"body":"And the ones that didn't"},{"startTime":1703.959,"endTime":1707.289,"body":"got put in a file somewhere."},{"startTime":1708.109,"endTime":1709.639,"body":"They may come back at another time."},{"startTime":1710.369,"endTime":1713.339,"body":"And I just figured I didn't"},{"startTime":1710.369,"endTime":1713.339,"body":"want to make it too long."},{"startTime":1714.549,"endTime":1715.689,"body":"So it's, what is it now?"},{"startTime":1715.689,"endTime":1718.359,"body":"About 148, 150 pages."},{"startTime":1718.479,"endTime":1724.319,"body":"And I wanted it to be easy, easily"},{"startTime":1718.479,"endTime":1724.319,"body":"readable, easily digestible."},{"startTime":1724.709,"endTime":1730.289,"body":"But because I, I hope anyway, that"},{"startTime":1724.709,"endTime":1730.289,"body":"people have to take a little time to"},{"startTime":1730.299,"endTime":1733.009,"body":"think about what each one of the means."},{"startTime":1733.579,"endTime":1739.789,"body":"I didn't want it to be a reference guide,"},{"startTime":1733.579,"endTime":1739.789,"body":"wanted it to be a fairly quick, easy read."},{"startTime":1739.789,"endTime":1745.329,"body":"And so I landed on 30 pieces and the"},{"startTime":1739.789,"endTime":1745.329,"body":"third, there's one at the end that's,"},{"startTime":1746.089,"endTime":1749.449,"body":"there's one at the end that doesn't,"},{"startTime":1746.089,"endTime":1749.449,"body":"the one that's not like the others."},{"startTime":1749.499,"endTime":1753.599,"body":"It's really like a tips for good"},{"startTime":1749.499,"endTime":1753.599,"body":"writing that I really liked."},{"startTime":1753.599,"endTime":1756.019,"body":"And I thought I wanted to include"},{"startTime":1753.599,"endTime":1756.019,"body":"in this thing and it made sense"},{"startTime":1756.179,"endTime":1757.699,"body":"as the last piece of this one."},{"startTime":1758.344,"endTime":1762.804,"body":"And that's, that's how you just pick the"},{"startTime":1758.344,"endTime":1762.804,"body":"best ones and take your best guess at it."},{"startTime":1762.994,"endTime":1764.474,"body":"Sometimes it's the ones you like."},{"startTime":1765.064,"endTime":1768.774,"body":"Sometimes it's the ones, the"},{"startTime":1765.064,"endTime":1768.774,"body":"people you trust who read it like,"},{"startTime":1769.454,"endTime":1770.944,"body":"and you listen to those folks."},{"startTime":1771.034,"endTime":1774.144,"body":"And, and that's my friend who"},{"startTime":1771.034,"endTime":1774.144,"body":"did the cover also really helped"},{"startTime":1774.144,"endTime":1775.114,"body":"me come up with the title."},{"startTime":1775.864,"endTime":1779.384,"body":"Cause we were talking earlier, I"},{"startTime":1775.864,"endTime":1779.384,"body":"had a different title in my mind"},{"startTime":1779.384,"endTime":1782.974,"body":"that I really liked, but I wasn't"},{"startTime":1779.384,"endTime":1782.974,"body":"sure it would work for other people."},{"startTime":1783.364,"endTime":1787.064,"body":"And it was originally just called"},{"startTime":1783.364,"endTime":1787.064,"body":"the meditations on misbelief"},{"startTime":1787.294,"endTime":1788.724,"body":"and hyphenated misbelief."},{"startTime":1789.264,"endTime":1792.894,"body":"So the idea is to think about"},{"startTime":1789.264,"endTime":1792.894,"body":"the things you believe and why,"},{"startTime":1793.064,"endTime":1795.354,"body":"because you're not always right."},{"startTime":1796.004,"endTime":1797.084,"body":"I'm not always right."},{"startTime":1797.934,"endTime":1800.604,"body":"And sometimes the things you"},{"startTime":1797.934,"endTime":1800.604,"body":"believe change over time."},{"startTime":1801.499,"endTime":1806.429,"body":"So the idea was the same, but he"},{"startTime":1801.499,"endTime":1806.429,"body":"really, he wanted something pithier"},{"startTime":1806.489,"endTime":1808.859,"body":"and that he could do a design with."},{"startTime":1808.929,"endTime":1812.869,"body":"And then it was funny that the"},{"startTime":1808.929,"endTime":1812.869,"body":"cover design, he, he worked on"},{"startTime":1812.869,"endTime":1814.209,"body":"it longer than I wanted him to."},{"startTime":1814.269,"endTime":1817.419,"body":"And I'm like, I'm waiting for this"},{"startTime":1814.269,"endTime":1817.419,"body":"cover and I want to get out there."},{"startTime":1817.649,"endTime":1817.889,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1818.389,"endTime":1819.949,"body":"And he, we're on a zoom call."},{"startTime":1819.959,"endTime":1822.869,"body":"He's cause he was in, he was"},{"startTime":1819.959,"endTime":1822.869,"body":"living in Brazil at the time."},{"startTime":1823.629,"endTime":1824.119,"body":"And so."},{"startTime":1825.349,"endTime":1828.169,"body":"He gets on and he gets up in"},{"startTime":1825.349,"endTime":1828.169,"body":"the camera like this and he"},{"startTime":1828.169,"endTime":1829.909,"body":"goes, are you, are you ready?"},{"startTime":1829.999,"endTime":1831.169,"body":"And I'm like, yeah, I'm ready."},{"startTime":1831.289,"endTime":1832.609,"body":"I'm like, okay, okay."},{"startTime":1832.729,"endTime":1834.049,"body":"'cause I'm really excited about this."},{"startTime":1834.049,"endTime":1836.179,"body":"And he turned around and he"},{"startTime":1834.049,"endTime":1836.179,"body":"showed me the, the cover."},{"startTime":1837.219,"endTime":1838.599,"body":"And the cover was a little different."},{"startTime":1838.599,"endTime":1842.849,"body":"It was, it was on, originally it"},{"startTime":1838.599,"endTime":1842.849,"body":"was on a, the background instead of"},{"startTime":1842.854,"endTime":1845.299,"body":"the green, blue, white background."},{"startTime":1845.299,"endTime":1853.089,"body":"It was on a, I imagine if you put a, a"},{"startTime":1845.299,"endTime":1853.089,"body":"piece of paper into a Xerox machine and"},{"startTime":1853.119,"endTime":1855.789,"body":"it printed out as that just black gray."},{"startTime":1857.709,"endTime":1863.149,"body":"Wash that you get from a blank page"},{"startTime":1857.709,"endTime":1863.149,"body":"and then he put, it was a different"},{"startTime":1863.749,"endTime":1868.879,"body":"lemon, but he put the lemon on top of"},{"startTime":1863.749,"endTime":1868.879,"body":"that in all black, glossy and whatever."},{"startTime":1868.879,"endTime":1872.069,"body":"And the, the, and layout of the"},{"startTime":1868.879,"endTime":1872.069,"body":"title was a little bit different,"},{"startTime":1872.069,"endTime":1874.369,"body":"but it was, but he showed it to"},{"startTime":1872.069,"endTime":1874.369,"body":"me and he said, what do you think?"},{"startTime":1874.439,"endTime":1879.359,"body":"And I, and I went like, my chin dropped"},{"startTime":1874.439,"endTime":1879.359,"body":"and my, my eyes went like dinner plates."},{"startTime":1880.019,"endTime":1883.649,"body":"And I was like, cause I had a"},{"startTime":1880.019,"endTime":1883.649,"body":"whole bunch of other ideas in"},{"startTime":1883.649,"endTime":1884.769,"body":"my head of what it would be."},{"startTime":1885.279,"endTime":1886.619,"body":"And all of the, all of them."},{"startTime":1887.399,"endTime":1893.429,"body":"Yellow fade, the color yellow figured"},{"startTime":1887.399,"endTime":1893.429,"body":"prominently, and this was nothing"},{"startTime":1893.439,"endTime":1894.649,"body":"like what I was thinking about."},{"startTime":1894.699,"endTime":1897.329,"body":"And he showed it and I'm like, I love it."},{"startTime":1898.759,"endTime":1902.319,"body":"And then he redid it a little bit and"},{"startTime":1898.759,"endTime":1902.319,"body":"found a lemon he liked better and all"},{"startTime":1902.319,"endTime":1903.829,"body":"this, but the concept was always the same."},{"startTime":1904.539,"endTime":1908.419,"body":"And I know your audience is a lot"},{"startTime":1904.539,"endTime":1908.419,"body":"of writers and if anybody's, if"},{"startTime":1908.489,"endTime":1912.739,"body":"anybody's thinking about writing"},{"startTime":1908.489,"endTime":1912.739,"body":"a book, the best advice I can give"},{"startTime":1912.739,"endTime":1917.279,"body":"you after do the best writing you"},{"startTime":1912.739,"endTime":1917.279,"body":"can and have a really great idea."},{"startTime":1918.029,"endTime":1922.539,"body":"Which I understand just kind of gets"},{"startTime":1918.029,"endTime":1922.539,"body":"gifted to you by the universe sometimes"},{"startTime":1923.259,"endTime":1928.919,"body":"have, have somebody you really trust who"},{"startTime":1923.259,"endTime":1928.919,"body":"can do the cover and, and give you some"},{"startTime":1928.969,"endTime":1934.029,"body":"good input, good, hard things to listen to"},{"startTime":1928.969,"endTime":1934.029,"body":"sometimes too, about what's good and bad"},{"startTime":1934.029,"endTime":1937.609,"body":"about it and what needs to be changed and"},{"startTime":1934.029,"endTime":1937.609,"body":"what works and doesn't work and all that."},{"startTime":1937.619,"endTime":1937.769,"body":"Cause."},{"startTime":1938.499,"endTime":1943.789,"body":"As much as writing a book as a solo"},{"startTime":1938.499,"endTime":1943.789,"body":"enterprise, producing a book and putting"},{"startTime":1943.789,"endTime":1947.649,"body":"it out there to the world is absolutely"},{"startTime":1943.789,"endTime":1947.649,"body":"a collaborative effort when it's done."},{"startTime":1947.649,"endTime":1952.229,"body":"Well, so, and I was fortunate to have one,"},{"startTime":1947.649,"endTime":1952.229,"body":"one guy who could do both of those things."},{"startTime":1952.299,"endTime":1955.724,"body":"I had also a good friend who"},{"startTime":1952.299,"endTime":1955.724,"body":"was a proofreader who was."},{"startTime":1955.934,"endTime":1961.054,"body":"Invaluable to me, even though it's"},{"startTime":1955.934,"endTime":1961.054,"body":"a weird format and grammar is not as"},{"startTime":1961.054,"endTime":1967.084,"body":"important as some books and Heather,"},{"startTime":1961.054,"endTime":1967.084,"body":"my wife is, she's a voracious reader"},{"startTime":1967.724,"endTime":1972.534,"body":"and she likes most of my stuff and,"},{"startTime":1967.724,"endTime":1972.534,"body":"and she was incredibly helpful."},{"startTime":1972.854,"endTime":1977.124,"body":"As well, so, and my son, Aiden, Aiden's"},{"startTime":1972.854,"endTime":1977.124,"body":"14 now, and he, and I would read stuff"},{"startTime":1977.124,"endTime":1981.354,"body":"to him and sometimes it was sometimes"},{"startTime":1977.124,"endTime":1981.354,"body":"he, but he always liked listening to it,"},{"startTime":1981.404,"endTime":1983.084,"body":"even when he was with the earlier pieces."},{"startTime":1983.124,"endTime":1984.764,"body":"I read I've read him stuff forever."},{"startTime":1985.634,"endTime":1990.784,"body":"And, uh, I always read things out"},{"startTime":1985.634,"endTime":1990.784,"body":"loud if it's to make sure, make sure"},{"startTime":1990.784,"endTime":1994.294,"body":"they sound right, because it's an"},{"startTime":1990.784,"endTime":1994.294,"body":"auditory practice as much as it is."},{"startTime":1994.739,"endTime":1995.409,"body":"A written one."},{"startTime":1995.949,"endTime":1998.219,"body":"So I would read things out to"},{"startTime":1995.949,"endTime":1998.219,"body":"Aiden and see what he's like."},{"startTime":1998.219,"endTime":1999.329,"body":"Oh, I really like that one."},{"startTime":1999.859,"endTime":2002.379,"body":"And sometimes it's like, man, it's okay."},{"startTime":2002.429,"endTime":2003.019,"body":"What does that mean?"},{"startTime":2003.939,"endTime":2004.459,"body":"I'm like, good."},{"startTime":2004.459,"endTime":2005.219,"body":"Keep asking that."},{"startTime":2006.169,"endTime":2007.269,"body":"This is so good."},{"startTime":2007.919,"endTime":2011.229,"body":"I could almost see this as"},{"startTime":2007.919,"endTime":2011.229,"body":"almost like a daily app."},{"startTime":2011.509,"endTime":2014.219,"body":"I love how you with that first"},{"startTime":2011.509,"endTime":2014.219,"body":"title that you mentioned the"},{"startTime":2014.219,"endTime":2016.809,"body":"meditations, because I felt like."},{"startTime":2017.384,"endTime":2019.414,"body":"All of this makes me think, right?"},{"startTime":2019.414,"endTime":2022.694,"body":"Even the cover when you were"},{"startTime":2019.414,"endTime":2022.694,"body":"like, okay, so why a lemon?"},{"startTime":2022.694,"endTime":2022.974,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2022.974,"endTime":2026.554,"body":"Lemons are yellow, but there's no yellow"},{"startTime":2022.974,"endTime":2026.554,"body":"into it, but there's certain all of"},{"startTime":2026.554,"endTime":2031.254,"body":"it makes you stop and think seeing the"},{"startTime":2026.554,"endTime":2031.254,"body":"word yellow spelled out and capital"},{"startTime":2031.264,"endTime":2033.074,"body":"letters, but then my proofreader color."},{"startTime":2033.934,"endTime":2036.724,"body":"My proofreader hated the"},{"startTime":2033.934,"endTime":2036.724,"body":"break in yellow, by the way."},{"startTime":2036.724,"endTime":2037.924,"body":"It's on two lines."},{"startTime":2037.924,"endTime":2039.024,"body":"Couldn't stand it."},{"startTime":2039.374,"endTime":2041.394,"body":"Yeah, I mean, I get it."},{"startTime":2041.534,"endTime":2042.514,"body":"I'm not changing it."},{"startTime":2043.224,"endTime":2043.704,"body":"No, it's cool."},{"startTime":2044.184,"endTime":2045.964,"body":"All of it makes you think, right?"},{"startTime":2045.974,"endTime":2047.014,"body":"And that's what we want."},{"startTime":2047.014,"endTime":2050.344,"body":"I think this is the anti chat GPT."},{"startTime":2050.354,"endTime":2055.324,"body":"Like this, all of this, It's so"},{"startTime":2050.354,"endTime":2055.324,"body":"refreshing because that does make you"},{"startTime":2055.324,"endTime":2057.774,"body":"think that's a, that's a funny thing."},{"startTime":2057.784,"endTime":2058.594,"body":"That's a funny thing."},{"startTime":2058.594,"endTime":2061.304,"body":"Cause I did take just"},{"startTime":2058.594,"endTime":2061.304,"body":"totally out of curiosity."},{"startTime":2061.704,"endTime":2066.424,"body":"I took a couple of these pieces"},{"startTime":2061.704,"endTime":2066.424,"body":"that I wrote and put them into an"},{"startTime":2066.434,"endTime":2071.304,"body":"AI tool and said, basically rewrite"},{"startTime":2066.434,"endTime":2071.304,"body":"it, show me, you know, correct"},{"startTime":2071.304,"endTime":2072.404,"body":"it, make it better or whatever."},{"startTime":2072.964,"endTime":2080.209,"body":"And they came back and I'm like, Oh,"},{"startTime":2072.964,"endTime":2080.209,"body":"my God, that's terrible because it"},{"startTime":2080.229,"endTime":2083.929,"body":"doesn't, it's a really specific style."},{"startTime":2083.939,"endTime":2085.229,"body":"It doesn't work."},{"startTime":2086.349,"endTime":2088.249,"body":"I don't think it doesn't work."},{"startTime":2088.839,"endTime":2093.249,"body":"If it's just pure pros, it"},{"startTime":2088.839,"endTime":2093.249,"body":"has to be broken up this way."},{"startTime":2093.249,"endTime":2096.989,"body":"And we spent a lot of time making sure"},{"startTime":2093.249,"endTime":2096.989,"body":"it, when, when rocket was laying it"},{"startTime":2096.989,"endTime":2102.009,"body":"out, we did live layout sessions and"},{"startTime":2096.989,"endTime":2102.009,"body":"just checked every, every break, every"},{"startTime":2102.009,"endTime":2106.269,"body":"page break, every line break, and we"},{"startTime":2102.009,"endTime":2106.269,"body":"caught things every, every go around."},{"startTime":2106.269,"endTime":2106.759,"body":"It was funny."},{"startTime":2106.759,"endTime":2108.139,"body":"It catch things every step."},{"startTime":2108.209,"endTime":2110.229,"body":"So if you catch something, I"},{"startTime":2108.209,"endTime":2110.229,"body":"don't want to hear about it."},{"startTime":2111.299,"endTime":2111.849,"body":"Don't tell me."},{"startTime":2114.759,"endTime":2115.129,"body":"But you do."},{"startTime":2115.129,"endTime":2116.819,"body":"And that's another lesson in."},{"startTime":2117.054,"endTime":2119.564,"body":"And proofreading and editing"},{"startTime":2117.054,"endTime":2119.564,"body":"is that there it's, it's not"},{"startTime":2119.564,"endTime":2121.104,"body":"a matter of making it perfect."},{"startTime":2121.104,"endTime":2124.014,"body":"It's a matter of, of"},{"startTime":2121.104,"endTime":2124.014,"body":"minimizing the mistakes."},{"startTime":2126.164,"endTime":2126.454,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2126.454,"endTime":2128.624,"body":"It doesn't work unless it's,"},{"startTime":2126.454,"endTime":2128.624,"body":"it's broken up this way."},{"startTime":2128.624,"endTime":2132.724,"body":"And the layout and the design line"},{"startTime":2128.624,"endTime":2132.724,"body":"by line is part of the meaning."},{"startTime":2133.204,"endTime":2133.594,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2134.144,"endTime":2136.984,"body":"And I commented on somebody's something."},{"startTime":2137.314,"endTime":2141.994,"body":"Yesterday, they were talking about how"},{"startTime":2137.314,"endTime":2141.994,"body":"they had a presentation and they were"},{"startTime":2142.044,"endTime":2146.814,"body":"trying to make the argument that if,"},{"startTime":2142.044,"endTime":2146.814,"body":"if you stripped out of your pitch deck,"},{"startTime":2147.224,"endTime":2151.914,"body":"all the imagery, and just had white"},{"startTime":2147.224,"endTime":2151.914,"body":"background, black text, if it doesn't"},{"startTime":2151.914,"endTime":2153.764,"body":"make sense, it's not going to work."},{"startTime":2154.444,"endTime":2154.804,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2155.144,"endTime":2156.944,"body":"And I'm like, that kind of makes sense."},{"startTime":2157.004,"endTime":2159.544,"body":"And then a designer got"},{"startTime":2157.004,"endTime":2159.544,"body":"in and made a comment."},{"startTime":2160.244,"endTime":2163.074,"body":"And basically the, the picture"},{"startTime":2160.244,"endTime":2163.074,"body":"is worth a thousand words"},{"startTime":2164.474,"endTime":2166.264,"body":"perspective, which I bought."},{"startTime":2166.964,"endTime":2169.414,"body":"Which I buy, but then I went in"},{"startTime":2166.964,"endTime":2169.414,"body":"and commented and I said, and"},{"startTime":2169.414,"endTime":2171.264,"body":"I get that and I agree with it."},{"startTime":2172.194,"endTime":2176.844,"body":"However, the designer"},{"startTime":2172.194,"endTime":2176.844,"body":"still needs the stories."},{"startTime":2176.924,"endTime":2178.524,"body":"The designer needs the words."},{"startTime":2178.574,"endTime":2179.814,"body":"What are you trying to communicate?"},{"startTime":2179.814,"endTime":2184.394,"body":"So if you don't have a clear"},{"startTime":2179.814,"endTime":2184.394,"body":"idea to communicate, you can't"},{"startTime":2184.404,"endTime":2185.354,"body":"put the right picture with it."},{"startTime":2188.064,"endTime":2191.954,"body":"A wonderfully love hate relationship"},{"startTime":2188.064,"endTime":2191.954,"body":"with a lot of designers over the"},{"startTime":2191.954,"endTime":2194.924,"body":"years, because they have very"},{"startTime":2191.954,"endTime":2194.924,"body":"specific ideas about things."},{"startTime":2195.724,"endTime":2200.584,"body":"And I don't always agree and"},{"startTime":2195.724,"endTime":2200.584,"body":"I'm not always in charge either."},{"startTime":2200.624,"endTime":2204.324,"body":"I had a lot of creative directors"},{"startTime":2200.624,"endTime":2204.324,"body":"I've worked with were designers first."},{"startTime":2205.224,"endTime":2210.474,"body":"I prefer working with a creative director"},{"startTime":2205.224,"endTime":2210.474,"body":"who, if they're not a writer first,"},{"startTime":2211.724,"endTime":2214.014,"body":"they're definitely a writer as well."},{"startTime":2214.234,"endTime":2216.414,"body":"Because I think writing"},{"startTime":2214.234,"endTime":2216.414,"body":"is not just writing."},{"startTime":2216.414,"endTime":2218.014,"body":"Writing is storytelling."},{"startTime":2218.014,"endTime":2219.074,"body":"Writing is designing."},{"startTime":2219.074,"endTime":2220.044,"body":"Writing is thinking."},{"startTime":2220.614,"endTime":2222.574,"body":"Writing is a lot of these things."},{"startTime":2222.634,"endTime":2226.654,"body":"And so for every one page of"},{"startTime":2222.634,"endTime":2226.654,"body":"finished product I have, I have a"},{"startTime":2226.654,"endTime":2230.704,"body":"hundred pages of notes filling a"},{"startTime":2226.654,"endTime":2230.704,"body":"drawer or a trash can or something."},{"startTime":2233.484,"endTime":2236.944,"body":"Cause you got to work through it all"},{"startTime":2233.484,"endTime":2236.944,"body":"and designs the same way as you work"},{"startTime":2236.944,"endTime":2240.694,"body":"through a lot of iterations of, of what"},{"startTime":2236.944,"endTime":2240.694,"body":"you're doing to try and communicate"},{"startTime":2240.694,"endTime":2244.674,"body":"an idea and whether you're doing"},{"startTime":2240.694,"endTime":2244.674,"body":"that with a picture or, or letters."},{"startTime":2244.984,"endTime":2245.824,"body":"I love that."},{"startTime":2245.824,"endTime":2249.554,"body":"I love, even when you were talking"},{"startTime":2245.824,"endTime":2249.554,"body":"about that word, misbelief in the"},{"startTime":2249.554,"endTime":2253.914,"body":"first, in the first title that you were"},{"startTime":2249.554,"endTime":2253.914,"body":"thinking about it and the hyphen, right?"},{"startTime":2254.154,"endTime":2256.114,"body":"We have to know."},{"startTime":2256.814,"endTime":2259.884,"body":"When you're talking about writers are"},{"startTime":2256.814,"endTime":2259.884,"body":"all of these things and all of these"},{"startTime":2260.084,"endTime":2263.864,"body":"activities are associated, not just"},{"startTime":2260.084,"endTime":2263.864,"body":"thinking of words and typing them on a"},{"startTime":2264.104,"endTime":2266.994,"body":"keyboard, but we're translators, right?"},{"startTime":2266.994,"endTime":2270.864,"body":"Like, we are, we're just stealing"},{"startTime":2266.994,"endTime":2270.864,"body":"information and we're thinking about"},{"startTime":2270.884,"endTime":2274.744,"body":"who we want to reach and what they"},{"startTime":2270.884,"endTime":2274.744,"body":"speak, what they're going to receive."},{"startTime":2275.084,"endTime":2279.684,"body":"And out of all the language that we can"},{"startTime":2275.084,"endTime":2279.684,"body":"use, what's the precise word that we"},{"startTime":2279.684,"endTime":2282.594,"body":"need to use for this, this situation."},{"startTime":2283.094,"endTime":2285.714,"body":"And we need to know those things"},{"startTime":2283.094,"endTime":2285.714,"body":"so that we can give it to the"},{"startTime":2285.714,"endTime":2289.654,"body":"designer so that they can visually"},{"startTime":2285.714,"endTime":2289.654,"body":"figure out how to communicate."},{"startTime":2289.654,"endTime":2292.944,"body":"I feel like if 1 thing is wrong,"},{"startTime":2289.654,"endTime":2292.944,"body":"if we're using the wrong word."},{"startTime":2293.619,"endTime":2296.009,"body":"That takes everything off, off the track."},{"startTime":2296.049,"endTime":2296.609,"body":"I think you could."},{"startTime":2296.639,"endTime":2298.569,"body":"Yeah, no, a different result."},{"startTime":2298.979,"endTime":2299.779,"body":"I agree."},{"startTime":2299.789,"endTime":2300.849,"body":"It's, and it's different."},{"startTime":2300.849,"endTime":2301.309,"body":"It depends."},{"startTime":2301.309,"endTime":2304.219,"body":"And, and there's an interpretive"},{"startTime":2301.309,"endTime":2304.219,"body":"component to it all too."},{"startTime":2304.729,"endTime":2308.049,"body":"It's like whoever reads it,"},{"startTime":2304.729,"endTime":2308.049,"body":"reads it in a different way."},{"startTime":2308.049,"endTime":2308.479,"body":"I forget."},{"startTime":2309.039,"endTime":2310.389,"body":"I want to say it was a Mel Brooks."},{"startTime":2311.844,"endTime":2315.944,"body":"Movie or a Melbrook sketch or something"},{"startTime":2311.844,"endTime":2315.944,"body":"where he told you they were doing the"},{"startTime":2315.954,"endTime":2321.704,"body":"to be or not to be speech from him"},{"startTime":2315.954,"endTime":2321.704,"body":"and the, the, the actor decided he"},{"startTime":2321.704,"endTime":2324.644,"body":"was going to do it in a different way."},{"startTime":2324.694,"endTime":2328.374,"body":"And so instead of to be or not to be,"},{"startTime":2324.694,"endTime":2328.374,"body":"that is the question, whether it is"},{"startTime":2328.374,"endTime":2329.874,"body":"no blur in the mind, blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":2330.514,"endTime":2331.054,"body":"And he said."},{"startTime":2332.329,"endTime":2338.249,"body":"To be or not to be that is the"},{"startTime":2332.329,"endTime":2338.249,"body":"question is whether it is no blur in"},{"startTime":2338.249,"endTime":2340.459,"body":"the mind and he, and he broke it all."},{"startTime":2340.609,"endTime":2343.359,"body":"And it's like, it was hysterical."},{"startTime":2343.539,"endTime":2347.959,"body":"It's a comedy, but in the way he"},{"startTime":2343.539,"endTime":2347.959,"body":"presented it and acted it out, it"},{"startTime":2347.969,"endTime":2351.659,"body":"was just, it was a riot because it's"},{"startTime":2347.969,"endTime":2351.659,"body":"like, wow, that's just so wrong."},{"startTime":2351.979,"endTime":2356.449,"body":"But then if you listen to it a little"},{"startTime":2351.979,"endTime":2356.449,"body":"closer, you're like, well, wait a second,"},{"startTime":2356.729,"endTime":2358.709,"body":"let me think about that for just a minute."},{"startTime":2359.339,"endTime":2364.559,"body":"And yeah, maybe there's something there"},{"startTime":2359.339,"endTime":2364.559,"body":"because of the way people read sentences."},{"startTime":2365.984,"endTime":2369.874,"body":"That you write, they might"},{"startTime":2365.984,"endTime":2369.874,"body":"read them differently than"},{"startTime":2369.874,"endTime":2372.644,"body":"you intended them to read."},{"startTime":2372.824,"endTime":2376.674,"body":"And so that's, so, and you can't"},{"startTime":2372.824,"endTime":2376.674,"body":"control any of that, but it's, you"},{"startTime":2376.674,"endTime":2377.694,"body":"can think about it a little bit."},{"startTime":2378.384,"endTime":2378.834,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2378.874,"endTime":2380.664,"body":"You can do your best to anticipate."},{"startTime":2381.014,"endTime":2381.474,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2381.474,"endTime":2384.124,"body":"Try and get, and that's, and that's"},{"startTime":2381.474,"endTime":2384.124,"body":"what this does is cause it's all"},{"startTime":2384.124,"endTime":2389.214,"body":"very line, period, line, period,"},{"startTime":2384.124,"endTime":2389.214,"body":"dot, dot, dot, dash, whatever I use."},{"startTime":2389.214,"endTime":2389.564,"body":"I forget."},{"startTime":2389.834,"endTime":2393.614,"body":"And all these places is designed"},{"startTime":2389.834,"endTime":2393.614,"body":"like when you write a play or when"},{"startTime":2393.614,"endTime":2395.934,"body":"you read a play, You will see."},{"startTime":2396.464,"endTime":2400.944,"body":"Different types of punctuation to notate."},{"startTime":2402.314,"endTime":2405.634,"body":"What the actor should do,"},{"startTime":2402.314,"endTime":2405.634,"body":"and then you have things in"},{"startTime":2405.634,"endTime":2407.074,"body":"parentheses for stage directions."},{"startTime":2407.584,"endTime":2411.154,"body":"So if you, you, a lot of modern"},{"startTime":2407.584,"endTime":2411.154,"body":"plays don't have that much in it."},{"startTime":2411.254,"endTime":2414.084,"body":"They, they have, it's mainly"},{"startTime":2411.254,"endTime":2414.084,"body":"just text and you read it like"},{"startTime":2414.084,"endTime":2416.564,"body":"it's a normal, uh, punctuation."},{"startTime":2416.854,"endTime":2419.094,"body":"But if you read like"},{"startTime":2416.854,"endTime":2419.094,"body":"a Samuel Beckett play."},{"startTime":2419.739,"endTime":2424.869,"body":"It has a ton of little ellipses to"},{"startTime":2419.739,"endTime":2424.869,"body":"indicate pauses and then have stage"},{"startTime":2424.869,"endTime":2429.039,"body":"directions that say a long pause and"},{"startTime":2424.869,"endTime":2429.039,"body":"things like this, because he was, he"},{"startTime":2429.039,"endTime":2433.929,"body":"was very, very specific about what he"},{"startTime":2429.039,"endTime":2433.929,"body":"wanted, how he wanted his play to be, uh,"},{"startTime":2433.949,"endTime":2440.589,"body":"presented and they're harder to read it's"},{"startTime":2433.949,"endTime":2440.589,"body":"advanced, it's advanced theater reading,"},{"startTime":2441.669,"endTime":2446.469,"body":"but if you can get into the zone of it,"},{"startTime":2441.669,"endTime":2446.469,"body":"it's you, you get exactly what he means"},{"startTime":2446.469,"endTime":2447.749,"body":"and you're not going to misunderstand it."},{"startTime":2448.639,"endTime":2449.399,"body":"So, I don't know."},{"startTime":2449.399,"endTime":2451.359,"body":"It's just, there's different"},{"startTime":2449.399,"endTime":2451.359,"body":"ways around all this stuff."},{"startTime":2451.399,"endTime":2455.869,"body":"And, and the biggest thing, the best"},{"startTime":2451.399,"endTime":2455.869,"body":"advice I have, best writing advice I"},{"startTime":2455.869,"endTime":2460.239,"body":"ever got was, I was starting my job."},{"startTime":2460.239,"endTime":2463.659,"body":"I was actually interviewing for my job"},{"startTime":2460.239,"endTime":2463.659,"body":"at the newspaper, my first newspaper."},{"startTime":2464.109,"endTime":2470.969,"body":"So I went to a, a town meeting and"},{"startTime":2464.109,"endTime":2470.969,"body":"I came back to the newsroom and the,"},{"startTime":2470.979,"endTime":2474.429,"body":"the main reporter for the town was"},{"startTime":2470.979,"endTime":2474.429,"body":"at the same meeting and she came"},{"startTime":2474.429,"endTime":2475.799,"body":"back and she was writing her stuff."},{"startTime":2475.849,"endTime":2478.789,"body":"And she said, you're trying"},{"startTime":2475.849,"endTime":2478.789,"body":"out for the paper, right?"},{"startTime":2478.789,"endTime":2479.249,"body":"I said, yeah."},{"startTime":2480.054,"endTime":2481.534,"body":"I said, what are you,"},{"startTime":2480.054,"endTime":2481.534,"body":"what are you going to do?"},{"startTime":2481.924,"endTime":2485.564,"body":"I'm like, I have no idea"},{"startTime":2481.924,"endTime":2485.564,"body":"all this information."},{"startTime":2485.564,"endTime":2490.334,"body":"I have pages and pages and she said,"},{"startTime":2485.564,"endTime":2490.334,"body":"do you want to, you want to tip?"},{"startTime":2491.094,"endTime":2493.364,"body":"And I'm like, yeah, sure."},{"startTime":2493.434,"endTime":2494.734,"body":"And she said, and we're so weird."},{"startTime":2494.784,"endTime":2496.924,"body":"And they, this was the days we were there."},{"startTime":2496.924,"endTime":2499.074,"body":"There were console machines."},{"startTime":2499.074,"endTime":2500.674,"body":"They weren't even like PCs."},{"startTime":2500.714,"endTime":2503.684,"body":"They were like big console machines"},{"startTime":2500.714,"endTime":2503.684,"body":"that were, that were, that would"},{"startTime":2503.684,"endTime":2505.054,"body":"shoot straight to the typesetter."},{"startTime":2505.834,"endTime":2506.304,"body":"And."},{"startTime":2507.449,"endTime":2512.439,"body":"She said, pick one, pick one, one"},{"startTime":2507.449,"endTime":2512.439,"body":"topic that you thought was important."},{"startTime":2513.579,"endTime":2516.949,"body":"And I'm like, okay, well, that,"},{"startTime":2513.579,"endTime":2516.949,"body":"that simplifies it right there."},{"startTime":2517.559,"endTime":2518.959,"body":"It was never having done it before."},{"startTime":2518.989,"endTime":2521.529,"body":"I thought, well, I write one"},{"startTime":2518.989,"endTime":2521.529,"body":"article that covers everything"},{"startTime":2521.529,"endTime":2522.369,"body":"that happened in the meeting."},{"startTime":2523.009,"endTime":2523.869,"body":"And no, no, no, no."},{"startTime":2523.889,"endTime":2527.319,"body":"Each one of these things is a"},{"startTime":2523.889,"endTime":2527.319,"body":"separate story that talks about,"},{"startTime":2527.329,"endTime":2530.149,"body":"one talks about sewage and drainage."},{"startTime":2530.149,"endTime":2530.569,"body":"One talks."},{"startTime":2530.894,"endTime":2531.834,"body":"It's about science."},{"startTime":2531.834,"endTime":2534.234,"body":"One talks about parking, whatever"},{"startTime":2531.834,"endTime":2534.234,"body":"it is they're talking about."},{"startTime":2534.704,"endTime":2537.844,"body":"So pick out the one you think is"},{"startTime":2534.704,"endTime":2537.844,"body":"important and don't worry about"},{"startTime":2537.844,"endTime":2539.114,"body":"it because they're all important."},{"startTime":2539.124,"endTime":2539.904,"body":"So just pick one."},{"startTime":2540.544,"endTime":2540.934,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":2541.294,"endTime":2547.064,"body":"And then sit down and try to explain it"},{"startTime":2541.294,"endTime":2547.064,"body":"as if you're talking to your grandmother."},{"startTime":2549.694,"endTime":2555.579,"body":"And I said, and she said,"},{"startTime":2549.694,"endTime":2555.579,"body":"no, Your grandmother knows"},{"startTime":2555.589,"endTime":2556.779,"body":"nothing about any of this."},{"startTime":2556.779,"endTime":2557.109,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2557.339,"endTime":2558.619,"body":"I said, no, not in a million years."},{"startTime":2559.029,"endTime":2563.079,"body":"So explain it like you're explaining"},{"startTime":2559.029,"endTime":2563.079,"body":"to your grandmother and I'm like, okay,"},{"startTime":2563.079,"endTime":2568.489,"body":"I sat down and I wrote it and I sent"},{"startTime":2563.079,"endTime":2568.489,"body":"it in and they ran it and I got the"},{"startTime":2568.489,"endTime":2573.249,"body":"job and I worked in the newspaper for"},{"startTime":2568.489,"endTime":2573.249,"body":"a few years and it was great, but the"},{"startTime":2573.249,"endTime":2579.439,"body":"lesson was Not be simple and explain it"},{"startTime":2573.249,"endTime":2579.439,"body":"to somebody who doesn't understand it."},{"startTime":2579.459,"endTime":2585.529,"body":"Although that's important It's be really"},{"startTime":2579.459,"endTime":2585.529,"body":"clear on who you're talking to Be really"},{"startTime":2585.529,"endTime":2593.039,"body":"clear on who, because as much as your"},{"startTime":2585.529,"endTime":2593.039,"body":"client wants to be the audience, they"},{"startTime":2593.039,"endTime":2594.429,"body":"want to be the person you're talking to."},{"startTime":2594.459,"endTime":2595.549,"body":"You need to sell them."},{"startTime":2596.299,"endTime":2597.559,"body":"That's not who matters."},{"startTime":2597.639,"endTime":2599.819,"body":"Who matters is the person"},{"startTime":2597.639,"endTime":2599.819,"body":"who's receiving it."},{"startTime":2600.514,"endTime":2605.504,"body":"And if you're not clear on that, you're"},{"startTime":2600.514,"endTime":2605.504,"body":"going to have a real uphill battle, but if"},{"startTime":2605.504,"endTime":2609.404,"body":"you can even to the point where, and I've"},{"startTime":2605.504,"endTime":2609.404,"body":"done this with some, some clients who,"},{"startTime":2609.414,"endTime":2615.924,"body":"who aren't getting it, where I'll write"},{"startTime":2609.414,"endTime":2615.924,"body":"a little thing at the top that says the"},{"startTime":2615.924,"endTime":2621.584,"body":"audience is, or the, the target is, and"},{"startTime":2615.924,"endTime":2621.584,"body":"describe who that person is, um, basically"},{"startTime":2621.594,"endTime":2625.284,"body":"describe their customer and, and then,"},{"startTime":2621.594,"endTime":2625.284,"body":"and then you have the stuff you wrote,"},{"startTime":2625.314,"endTime":2627.054,"body":"and then that way there's some context."},{"startTime":2627.694,"endTime":2628.364,"body":"There's a setup."},{"startTime":2628.414,"endTime":2628.894,"body":"It's like a joke."},{"startTime":2628.904,"endTime":2630.604,"body":"A good joke has a setup and a punchline."},{"startTime":2630.604,"endTime":2630.864,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2631.164,"endTime":2632.674,"body":"And it's like, it's like that."},{"startTime":2632.714,"endTime":2642.204,"body":"And, and that they're more able to"},{"startTime":2632.714,"endTime":2642.204,"body":"picture the stuff you created in"},{"startTime":2642.214,"endTime":2646.414,"body":"the place they thought was supposed"},{"startTime":2642.214,"endTime":2646.414,"body":"to be talking to themselves."},{"startTime":2647.024,"endTime":2649.174,"body":"That's, that's the biggest danger"},{"startTime":2647.024,"endTime":2649.174,"body":"is you see, you keep, you start"},{"startTime":2649.174,"endTime":2652.274,"body":"talking to yourself all the time and"},{"startTime":2649.174,"endTime":2652.274,"body":"that's, that's, that's bad, I think."},{"startTime":2652.524,"endTime":2655.174,"body":"And I'm sure you, I'm sure"},{"startTime":2652.524,"endTime":2655.174,"body":"you're familiar with that, that."},{"startTime":2656.144,"endTime":2657.024,"body":"Very much."},{"startTime":2657.024,"endTime":2658.724,"body":"Yeah, I get into it with myself."},{"startTime":2658.724,"endTime":2661.994,"body":"Start fighting with myself, debating."},{"startTime":2662.014,"endTime":2665.324,"body":"Yeah, it can get, it can get ugly quickly."},{"startTime":2665.964,"endTime":2666.784,"body":"Right, right."},{"startTime":2666.784,"endTime":2667.234,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":2667.714,"endTime":2670.024,"body":"You put so much intention in this."},{"startTime":2670.214,"endTime":2672.924,"body":"In everything, in every part of it."},{"startTime":2673.719,"endTime":2676.579,"body":"Everything that you've written,"},{"startTime":2673.719,"endTime":2676.579,"body":"we've talked about the cover."},{"startTime":2676.599,"endTime":2679.069,"body":"We've talked about the title so much."},{"startTime":2679.359,"endTime":2683.279,"body":"What, what do you want this impact"},{"startTime":2679.359,"endTime":2683.279,"body":"to be on the readers of this book?"},{"startTime":2683.279,"endTime":2685.619,"body":"What do you want them"},{"startTime":2683.279,"endTime":2685.619,"body":"to do after reading air?"},{"startTime":2685.639,"endTime":2688.739,"body":"How do you want their life to change"},{"startTime":2685.639,"endTime":2688.739,"body":"after they take in why yellow matters?"},{"startTime":2690.249,"endTime":2692.469,"body":"I want a million people to"},{"startTime":2690.249,"endTime":2692.469,"body":"carry it around with them."},{"startTime":2693.829,"endTime":2694.419,"body":"It's funny."},{"startTime":2694.419,"endTime":2696.379,"body":"I have, I have a bunch of books."},{"startTime":2696.814,"endTime":2700.624,"body":"I'm, as you might expect, I'm"},{"startTime":2696.814,"endTime":2700.624,"body":"a book guy and there are some"},{"startTime":2700.624,"endTime":2702.714,"body":"novels I read every year."},{"startTime":2702.804,"endTime":2704.554,"body":"I'll go back and read Gatsby every year."},{"startTime":2705.124,"endTime":2707.344,"body":"There are some things I'll look at there."},{"startTime":2708.404,"endTime":2709.264,"body":"I'm such a geek."},{"startTime":2709.274,"endTime":2709.874,"body":"Oh my God."},{"startTime":2709.874,"endTime":2710.514,"body":"I'm inventing this."},{"startTime":2710.924,"endTime":2714.294,"body":"I read the declaration of"},{"startTime":2710.924,"endTime":2714.294,"body":"independence every 4th of July."},{"startTime":2714.844,"endTime":2716.054,"body":"Oh, I love that."},{"startTime":2716.844,"endTime":2722.629,"body":"Partly because I think it's important"},{"startTime":2716.844,"endTime":2722.629,"body":"to remember what the holidays about and"},{"startTime":2722.629,"endTime":2724.489,"body":"partly it's just really good writing."},{"startTime":2725.219,"endTime":2728.519,"body":"There's, there's some, there's some crazy"},{"startTime":2725.219,"endTime":2728.519,"body":"stuff down there in the, he did this, he"},{"startTime":2728.519,"endTime":2732.909,"body":"did that section, but there's some really"},{"startTime":2728.519,"endTime":2732.909,"body":"good writing at the beginning and the end."},{"startTime":2733.509,"endTime":2739.199,"body":"And so, and I have sitting on my"},{"startTime":2733.509,"endTime":2739.199,"body":"desk as I'm sure you have somewhere."},{"startTime":2739.379,"endTime":2742.839,"body":"Uh, nearby, uh, I have,"},{"startTime":2739.379,"endTime":2742.839,"body":"I have an AP style guide."},{"startTime":2743.289,"endTime":2747.769,"body":"I have a strunk and white"},{"startTime":2743.289,"endTime":2747.769,"body":"little how to write well guide."},{"startTime":2748.279,"endTime":2751.159,"body":"These sort of things that I have"},{"startTime":2748.279,"endTime":2751.159,"body":"around that I pick up when I,"},{"startTime":2751.509,"endTime":2753.979,"body":"when I need to remember something."},{"startTime":2754.199,"endTime":2758.329,"body":"It's like, Oh, wait, lay or lie."},{"startTime":2758.579,"endTime":2759.359,"body":"Which one is that?"},{"startTime":2759.889,"endTime":2760.829,"body":"Oh, that one always gets me."},{"startTime":2761.599,"endTime":2762.839,"body":"I couldn't tell you right now."},{"startTime":2762.869,"endTime":2764.599,"body":"That's why I have the book."},{"startTime":2766.449,"endTime":2768.999,"body":"But I feel like I."},{"startTime":2770.644,"endTime":2776.854,"body":"If I could declare what I, what I would"},{"startTime":2770.644,"endTime":2776.854,"body":"like this to be, and I know I can't,"},{"startTime":2777.484,"endTime":2783.044,"body":"but it would be nice for it to be the"},{"startTime":2777.484,"endTime":2783.044,"body":"thing that, that sits around, sits on"},{"startTime":2783.044,"endTime":2787.184,"body":"somebody's shelf after they've read it,"},{"startTime":2783.044,"endTime":2787.184,"body":"maybe a couple of times, I don't know."},{"startTime":2787.774,"endTime":2790.274,"body":"And there's one or two that"},{"startTime":2787.774,"endTime":2790.274,"body":"really resonate with them or"},{"startTime":2790.274,"endTime":2791.654,"body":"really confuse them maybe."},{"startTime":2792.274,"endTime":2798.184,"body":"And they keep going back to it every"},{"startTime":2792.274,"endTime":2798.184,"body":"so often to say, oh yeah, that, yeah."},{"startTime":2798.234,"endTime":2802.054,"body":"And that helps me do what"},{"startTime":2798.234,"endTime":2802.054,"body":"I'm working on better."},{"startTime":2802.604,"endTime":2803.544,"body":"For me, that would be it."},{"startTime":2803.544,"endTime":2807.394,"body":"It's like, it's, it's not a reference"},{"startTime":2803.544,"endTime":2807.394,"body":"guide, but a, an inspiration guide, I"},{"startTime":2807.394,"endTime":2813.244,"body":"guess, or maybe a clarify, a reminder,"},{"startTime":2807.394,"endTime":2813.244,"body":"really again, that, that idea that"},{"startTime":2813.294,"endTime":2814.804,"body":"take the time to get it right."},{"startTime":2814.804,"endTime":2819.474,"body":"Take the time to ask why, if, if,"},{"startTime":2814.804,"endTime":2819.474,"body":"if that, if this thing can remind"},{"startTime":2819.474,"endTime":2823.449,"body":"them to do that more often, I"},{"startTime":2819.474,"endTime":2823.449,"body":"think that's a victory right there."},{"startTime":2825.209,"endTime":2826.309,"body":"Very cool."},{"startTime":2826.329,"endTime":2826.889,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":2826.899,"endTime":2831.169,"body":"Well, I will definitely be revisiting"},{"startTime":2826.899,"endTime":2831.169,"body":"it and continuing to think about"},{"startTime":2831.169,"endTime":2835.169,"body":"it and take breaks because I have"},{"startTime":2831.169,"endTime":2835.169,"body":"to absorb and really meditate."},{"startTime":2835.209,"endTime":2836.109,"body":"It's great stuff."},{"startTime":2836.299,"endTime":2837.899,"body":"What's, what's next for you?"},{"startTime":2837.899,"endTime":2842.009,"body":"I know you've written plays, you've"},{"startTime":2837.899,"endTime":2842.009,"body":"had books, you've got ideas for days."},{"startTime":2842.039,"endTime":2843.409,"body":"Is another book on the way?"},{"startTime":2843.559,"endTime":2846.779,"body":"Yeah, well, the idea was"},{"startTime":2843.559,"endTime":2846.779,"body":"this was a heavy lift."},{"startTime":2846.779,"endTime":2847.179,"body":"It's funny."},{"startTime":2847.179,"endTime":2849.679,"body":"It's not a long book, but it's"},{"startTime":2847.179,"endTime":2849.679,"body":"a project to get it out there."},{"startTime":2849.969,"endTime":2853.709,"body":"That said, I have learned how to"},{"startTime":2849.969,"endTime":2853.709,"body":"do the indie publishing thing."},{"startTime":2853.719,"endTime":2858.099,"body":"And I had a couple of friends,"},{"startTime":2853.719,"endTime":2858.099,"body":"friends of mine from kindergarten."},{"startTime":2858.649,"endTime":2859.379,"body":"Wow."},{"startTime":2859.419,"endTime":2860.439,"body":"Both have written books."},{"startTime":2861.029,"endTime":2861.929,"body":"Very cool."},{"startTime":2861.939,"endTime":2862.859,"body":"In different fields."},{"startTime":2862.889,"endTime":2864.109,"body":"One is a sales guy."},{"startTime":2864.149,"endTime":2867.379,"body":"My friend, Brett Kirstead wrote a"},{"startTime":2864.149,"endTime":2867.379,"body":"book called We're All Sales People."},{"startTime":2868.129,"endTime":2872.159,"body":"And, uh, and my friend, Peggy DeLong, Dr."},{"startTime":2872.159,"endTime":2875.349,"body":"Peggy DeLong, she's a psychologist,"},{"startTime":2872.159,"endTime":2875.349,"body":"wrote a couple of books, but"},{"startTime":2875.349,"endTime":2877.079,"body":"she wrote a fantastic memoir."},{"startTime":2877.739,"endTime":2881.019,"body":"And then she wrote one, The"},{"startTime":2877.739,"endTime":2881.019,"body":"Gratitude Guide, because that's"},{"startTime":2881.019,"endTime":2882.609,"body":"her area of practice now."},{"startTime":2883.109,"endTime":2886.759,"body":"And they went through a, one"},{"startTime":2883.109,"endTime":2886.759,"body":"of these companies that does."},{"startTime":2890.319,"endTime":2895.289,"body":"Beyond vanity publishing and, and into"},{"startTime":2890.319,"endTime":2895.289,"body":"the indie publishing world, and it's like,"},{"startTime":2895.319,"endTime":2897.029,"body":"let me control it myself kind of a thing."},{"startTime":2897.589,"endTime":2902.229,"body":"And so I, I, I talked to them a little"},{"startTime":2897.589,"endTime":2902.229,"body":"bit about it and, and, and did my own"},{"startTime":2902.229,"endTime":2907.499,"body":"research into it and realized with my"},{"startTime":2902.229,"endTime":2907.499,"body":"background in publishing and newspapers"},{"startTime":2907.499,"endTime":2910.669,"body":"and printing and all that kind of stuff,"},{"startTime":2907.499,"endTime":2910.669,"body":"I could, I could do most of the stuff"},{"startTime":2910.669,"endTime":2914.229,"body":"myself, and I had, I had some good"},{"startTime":2910.669,"endTime":2914.229,"body":"resources as far as proofreader, a couple"},{"startTime":2914.229,"endTime":2918.569,"body":"of good editors and a designer cover to"},{"startTime":2914.229,"endTime":2918.569,"body":"cover designs, really, really important."},{"startTime":2918.884,"endTime":2926.334,"body":"So anybody doing thinking about doing"},{"startTime":2918.884,"endTime":2926.334,"body":"one, it could separate you from the books"},{"startTime":2926.384,"endTime":2928.899,"body":"that indie publishing with a lowercase."},{"startTime":2928.899,"endTime":2931.184,"body":"I and independent"},{"startTime":2928.899,"endTime":2931.184,"body":"publishing with a capital."},{"startTime":2931.184,"endTime":2934.544,"body":"I that's the difference and the"},{"startTime":2931.184,"endTime":2934.544,"body":"cover makes all the difference."},{"startTime":2934.604,"endTime":2936.564,"body":"And so I did it myself."},{"startTime":2936.564,"endTime":2940.144,"body":"So I worked through all that myself, which"},{"startTime":2936.564,"endTime":2940.144,"body":"gave me a lot of extra work and a lot"},{"startTime":2940.144,"endTime":2941.834,"body":"of extra headache, but it's, it's a lot."},{"startTime":2941.834,"endTime":2943.444,"body":"I have gratitude for it because I did it."},{"startTime":2944.094,"endTime":2948.624,"body":"And so I had always thought"},{"startTime":2944.094,"endTime":2948.624,"body":"of this as volume one."},{"startTime":2949.284,"endTime":2950.574,"body":"I've called it volume one."},{"startTime":2950.734,"endTime":2953.164,"body":"It's a little dangerous calling it"},{"startTime":2950.734,"endTime":2953.164,"body":"volume one because you got to come up"},{"startTime":2953.174,"endTime":2957.544,"body":"with volume two, but I have a list of"},{"startTime":2953.174,"endTime":2957.544,"body":"other topics and thoughts and it'll,"},{"startTime":2957.564,"endTime":2959.544,"body":"it'll, it'll be three different sections."},{"startTime":2959.834,"endTime":2963.694,"body":"So like this one is thinking things,"},{"startTime":2959.834,"endTime":2963.694,"body":"deciding things and writing things."},{"startTime":2964.234,"endTime":2967.984,"body":"The next one will be"},{"startTime":2964.234,"endTime":2967.984,"body":"three different themes."},{"startTime":2969.494,"endTime":2969.874,"body":"Vague."},{"startTime":2969.884,"endTime":2971.994,"body":"I have a vague idea that"},{"startTime":2969.884,"endTime":2971.994,"body":"there are three volumes."},{"startTime":2972.674,"endTime":2975.494,"body":"And, and maybe when I have all three,"},{"startTime":2972.674,"endTime":2975.494,"body":"I'll put it out of the hardcover,"},{"startTime":2975.624,"endTime":2980.444,"body":"or I don't know, but I have a series"},{"startTime":2975.624,"endTime":2980.444,"body":"of novels that I have in mind that"},{"startTime":2980.444,"endTime":2983.874,"body":"if I can manage to put time aside"},{"startTime":2980.444,"endTime":2983.874,"body":"to work on, I'm going to work on."},{"startTime":2984.704,"endTime":2990.124,"body":"And then NimbleSmith is, is"},{"startTime":2984.704,"endTime":2990.124,"body":"going strong and creating brand"},{"startTime":2990.124,"endTime":2991.654,"body":"stories and content for people."},{"startTime":2992.124,"endTime":2993.474,"body":"I ghostwrite as well."},{"startTime":2994.444,"endTime":2996.464,"body":"I spend a lot of time"},{"startTime":2994.444,"endTime":2996.464,"body":"writing for other people."},{"startTime":2997.264,"endTime":3002.174,"body":"And that's another thing people"},{"startTime":2997.264,"endTime":3002.174,"body":"should use ghostwriters busy."},{"startTime":3002.174,"endTime":3003.364,"body":"People should use ghostwriters."},{"startTime":3004.034,"endTime":3006.004,"body":"Cause they can help you find your voice."},{"startTime":3006.044,"endTime":3008.484,"body":"They can help you clarify your message."},{"startTime":3008.524,"endTime":3010.664,"body":"They can help you really"},{"startTime":3008.524,"endTime":3010.664,"body":"understand your audience."},{"startTime":3010.944,"endTime":3013.264,"body":"Cause a lot of times, again, a"},{"startTime":3010.944,"endTime":3013.264,"body":"lot of times you start talking to"},{"startTime":3013.264,"endTime":3015.034,"body":"yourself and it doesn't mean as much."},{"startTime":3015.764,"endTime":3020.464,"body":"So I have all that work that's, I had"},{"startTime":3015.764,"endTime":3020.464,"body":"hoped the book would drive some more work."},{"startTime":3020.484,"endTime":3023.164,"body":"It would sell some copies,"},{"startTime":3020.484,"endTime":3023.164,"body":"which it's, which it's doing."},{"startTime":3023.164,"endTime":3024.344,"body":"And it's, I'm grateful for that."},{"startTime":3024.934,"endTime":3026.424,"body":"People seem to be happy with it."},{"startTime":3026.424,"endTime":3030.699,"body":"I get quoted back to myself from"},{"startTime":3026.424,"endTime":3030.699,"body":"time to time, which is very strange."},{"startTime":3031.449,"endTime":3033.709,"body":"It's a very strange thing, but it's fun."},{"startTime":3033.789,"endTime":3035.509,"body":"And then I have other stuff I want to do."},{"startTime":3035.539,"endTime":3038.499,"body":"Creative people always have a"},{"startTime":3035.539,"endTime":3038.499,"body":"million things they want to do"},{"startTime":3038.499,"endTime":3041.629,"body":"and have to figure out which ones"},{"startTime":3038.499,"endTime":3041.629,"body":"are the most important to them."},{"startTime":3042.499,"endTime":3043.779,"body":"So that's me."},{"startTime":3044.289,"endTime":3045.119,"body":"That's where I am."},{"startTime":3045.759,"endTime":3047.419,"body":"No plays on the, on the horizon."},{"startTime":3047.419,"endTime":3048.549,"body":"I did that a long time ago."},{"startTime":3049.249,"endTime":3055.109,"body":"I'm vaguely considering what it might look"},{"startTime":3049.249,"endTime":3055.109,"body":"like if I were to start helping people"},{"startTime":3056.199,"endTime":3057.689,"body":"independently publish their own books."},{"startTime":3058.269,"endTime":3059.849,"body":"Because it seems to me."},{"startTime":3060.339,"endTime":3065.719,"body":"There's, I think there's a, there's a"},{"startTime":3060.339,"endTime":3065.719,"body":"space between some of these agencies,"},{"startTime":3065.719,"endTime":3071.589,"body":"businesses that help you write your book"},{"startTime":3065.719,"endTime":3071.589,"body":"through to publishing and people who"},{"startTime":3071.899,"endTime":3073.289,"body":"don't really need the help writing it."},{"startTime":3073.469,"endTime":3077.789,"body":"There's a lot of us out there who have"},{"startTime":3073.469,"endTime":3077.789,"body":"a lot of a lot, this is a, and they"},{"startTime":3077.789,"endTime":3083.279,"body":"really just need the help taking it"},{"startTime":3077.789,"endTime":3083.279,"body":"from manuscript to available in Amazon"},{"startTime":3083.279,"endTime":3084.769,"body":"and Barnes and Noble and wherever else."},{"startTime":3085.384,"endTime":3087.304,"body":"Apple books, wherever you're"},{"startTime":3085.384,"endTime":3087.304,"body":"going to make it available."},{"startTime":3089.114,"endTime":3091.784,"body":"So there, I think there's a gap"},{"startTime":3089.114,"endTime":3091.784,"body":"there that I feel like maybe"},{"startTime":3091.784,"endTime":3092.784,"body":"I could help some people with."},{"startTime":3092.914,"endTime":3094.644,"body":"And so that, that's something I might."},{"startTime":3095.249,"endTime":3100.129,"body":"Expand into it's still kind of"},{"startTime":3095.249,"endTime":3100.129,"body":"a vague idea, but I love that."},{"startTime":3100.149,"endTime":3105.139,"body":"I think lots of people would be interested"},{"startTime":3100.149,"endTime":3105.139,"body":"in, in that needing that handholding."},{"startTime":3105.209,"endTime":3109.399,"body":"I think your experience to in"},{"startTime":3105.209,"endTime":3109.399,"body":"marketing and communications and"},{"startTime":3109.399,"endTime":3114.009,"body":"storytelling and journalism, I think"},{"startTime":3109.399,"endTime":3114.009,"body":"makes you especially like qualified,"},{"startTime":3114.009,"endTime":3117.809,"body":"I think, to offer a new perspective"},{"startTime":3114.009,"endTime":3117.809,"body":"on that because so much of what I"},{"startTime":3117.809,"endTime":3119.789,"body":"hear with writing a book is the mark."},{"startTime":3119.829,"endTime":3123.374,"body":"It's like, once you get it birthed,"},{"startTime":3119.829,"endTime":3123.374,"body":"It's like, you have to market it."},{"startTime":3123.374,"endTime":3125.594,"body":"You have to tell the people"},{"startTime":3123.374,"endTime":3125.594,"body":"that are going to push it."},{"startTime":3125.594,"endTime":3128.004,"body":"You got to do ads even"},{"startTime":3125.594,"endTime":3128.004,"body":"if you don't want to."},{"startTime":3128.134,"endTime":3128.804,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":3128.814,"endTime":3130.324,"body":"You got to get on podcasts."},{"startTime":3131.444,"endTime":3133.814,"body":"Uh, whatever, whatever you can"},{"startTime":3131.444,"endTime":3133.814,"body":"do to get the, you got to get"},{"startTime":3133.814,"endTime":3135.024,"body":"the word out is what it is."},{"startTime":3135.244,"endTime":3137.594,"body":"And like I did this book,"},{"startTime":3135.244,"endTime":3137.594,"body":"I'm very proud of it."},{"startTime":3138.509,"endTime":3140.399,"body":"I'm very happy with the way it came out."},{"startTime":3140.439,"endTime":3143.889,"body":"I mean, I had a friend who was a"},{"startTime":3140.439,"endTime":3143.889,"body":"design, he was a partner in the"},{"startTime":3143.899,"endTime":3146.929,"body":"Michael Graves design group and"},{"startTime":3143.899,"endTime":3146.929,"body":"he was, he was holding and he was"},{"startTime":3146.929,"endTime":3149.699,"body":"folding the paper and he's like, did"},{"startTime":3146.929,"endTime":3149.699,"body":"you get to pick the paper and stuff?"},{"startTime":3149.699,"endTime":3151.359,"body":"And I was like, cause I"},{"startTime":3149.699,"endTime":3151.359,"body":"love the way it feels."},{"startTime":3151.859,"endTime":3154.459,"body":"And I'm like, well, it's funny"},{"startTime":3151.859,"endTime":3154.459,"body":"cause cause when you're doing"},{"startTime":3154.459,"endTime":3157.569,"body":"this, you, you don't have as much."},{"startTime":3158.629,"endTime":3163.469,"body":"Leeway on those types of things that,"},{"startTime":3158.629,"endTime":3163.469,"body":"that you might like to have, but again,"},{"startTime":3163.529,"endTime":3166.379,"body":"having a little bit of background"},{"startTime":3163.529,"endTime":3166.379,"body":"and that's, that's the guy from"},{"startTime":3166.389,"endTime":3168.389,"body":"the newspaper business is printing."},{"startTime":3168.389,"endTime":3170.639,"body":"And I'd go hang out in the"},{"startTime":3168.389,"endTime":3170.639,"body":"printer after, after deadline"},{"startTime":3170.639,"endTime":3171.689,"body":"and watch the papers come off."},{"startTime":3172.369,"endTime":3179.759,"body":"And so I intentionally chose a"},{"startTime":3172.369,"endTime":3179.759,"body":"paper that was a matte finish, not"},{"startTime":3179.759,"endTime":3181.969,"body":"a glossy finish, that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":3181.989,"endTime":3183.864,"body":"And he's like, again, I"},{"startTime":3181.989,"endTime":3183.864,"body":"realize it just feels good."},{"startTime":3184.344,"endTime":3185.224,"body":"Like, okay, cool."},{"startTime":3185.264,"endTime":3185.614,"body":"I'm glad."},{"startTime":3185.654,"endTime":3186.414,"body":"That's another thing."},{"startTime":3186.454,"endTime":3187.254,"body":"That's I like that."},{"startTime":3188.024,"endTime":3188.674,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":3188.964,"endTime":3193.214,"body":"I like the map because you can take notes"},{"startTime":3188.964,"endTime":3193.214,"body":"because I've underlined things and stuff."},{"startTime":3193.324,"endTime":3195.114,"body":"So maybe it's a workbook."},{"startTime":3195.154,"endTime":3196.254,"body":"Maybe it's a journal."},{"startTime":3196.264,"endTime":3197.884,"body":"Maybe it's like a daily app."},{"startTime":3197.924,"endTime":3200.454,"body":"I would love to hear you record it too."},{"startTime":3200.734,"endTime":3203.484,"body":"I have, I have a vague"},{"startTime":3200.734,"endTime":3203.484,"body":"idea of doing that too."},{"startTime":3203.484,"endTime":3206.844,"body":"And I haven't quite figured out how to"},{"startTime":3203.484,"endTime":3206.844,"body":"execute on it, but I'll, I'll get there."},{"startTime":3207.459,"endTime":3211.149,"body":"My friend Brett and his book, he did,"},{"startTime":3207.459,"endTime":3211.149,"body":"he did an audio book version of his book"},{"startTime":3211.149,"endTime":3212.639,"body":"and it was, it came out wonderfully."},{"startTime":3213.039,"endTime":3214.809,"body":"So I'm going to lean on him a little bit."},{"startTime":3215.939,"endTime":3216.439,"body":"I love it."},{"startTime":3216.439,"endTime":3216.729,"body":"Lyle."},{"startTime":3216.729,"endTime":3218.359,"body":"Where can people get a copy?"},{"startTime":3218.379,"endTime":3222.509,"body":"How can people continue to follow you"},{"startTime":3218.379,"endTime":3222.509,"body":"on all the places on the internet?"},{"startTime":3223.969,"endTime":3226.179,"body":"I am, well, nimblesmith."},{"startTime":3226.179,"endTime":3226.979,"body":"com is the business."},{"startTime":3227.719,"endTime":3228.799,"body":"Why yellow matters."},{"startTime":3229.039,"endTime":3234.699,"body":"com is, is a central book page,"},{"startTime":3229.039,"endTime":3234.699,"body":"but you can get it at Amazon."},{"startTime":3234.699,"endTime":3236.209,"body":"You can get it at Barnes and Noble."},{"startTime":3236.269,"endTime":3238.659,"body":"If you do and you like it,"},{"startTime":3236.269,"endTime":3238.659,"body":"write a review, please."},{"startTime":3238.839,"endTime":3239.679,"body":"That's really helpful."},{"startTime":3240.929,"endTime":3242.899,"body":"I'm on, I'm personally on Facebook."},{"startTime":3242.969,"endTime":3248.039,"body":"I'm business wise on LinkedIn and"},{"startTime":3242.969,"endTime":3248.039,"body":"I'm, I'm embracing Instagram now,"},{"startTime":3249.439,"endTime":3250.889,"body":"just under my name, Lyle Smith."},{"startTime":3251.449,"endTime":3253.929,"body":"And I did, I have, I have a threads."},{"startTime":3254.089,"endTime":3255.009,"body":"I'm experimenting."},{"startTime":3255.319,"endTime":3257.409,"body":"I had, I had Twitter and Instagram."},{"startTime":3257.409,"endTime":3261.359,"body":"I didn't like the idea of X, so"},{"startTime":3257.409,"endTime":3261.359,"body":"I don't really do that anymore."},{"startTime":3262.019,"endTime":3266.839,"body":"I think Instagram is a friendlier"},{"startTime":3262.019,"endTime":3266.839,"body":"place and it was probably the"},{"startTime":3267.279,"endTime":3268.589,"body":"videos and photos that make it."},{"startTime":3268.609,"endTime":3272.199,"body":"So I don't do Tik TOK."},{"startTime":3274.279,"endTime":3274.569,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":3274.569,"endTime":3279.569,"body":"Maybe it's an age thing, generation,"},{"startTime":3274.569,"endTime":3279.569,"body":"but I post a lot of stuff on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":3279.599,"endTime":3280.159,"body":"I post a lot."},{"startTime":3280.199,"endTime":3282.029,"body":"That's on, and that's a nimble Smith."},{"startTime":3282.139,"endTime":3282.959,"body":"So linkedin."},{"startTime":3283.919,"endTime":3284.939,"body":"com slash nimble Smith."},{"startTime":3285.509,"endTime":3288.829,"body":"And I post a lot on, or I'm trying, I'm"},{"startTime":3285.509,"endTime":3288.829,"body":"starting to post a lot on Instagram."},{"startTime":3290.559,"endTime":3292.389,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"startTime":3292.449,"endTime":3292.979,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":3293.654,"endTime":3294.544,"body":"This is great."},{"startTime":3294.854,"endTime":3295.614,"body":"I really appreciate it."},{"startTime":3295.614,"endTime":3299.944,"body":"And I'll include all the links to"},{"startTime":3295.614,"endTime":3299.944,"body":"the book page and the website for"},{"startTime":3299.954,"endTime":3302.964,"body":"the company and all the social"},{"startTime":3299.954,"endTime":3302.964,"body":"media platforms in the show notes."},{"startTime":3303.244,"endTime":3303.974,"body":"It's funny."},{"startTime":3304.034,"endTime":3305.394,"body":"There's another indie publishing thing."},{"startTime":3305.404,"endTime":3309.614,"body":"If you order directly from me, it"},{"startTime":3305.404,"endTime":3309.614,"body":"may take a little longer to get."},{"startTime":3310.094,"endTime":3314.104,"body":"Cause I guess I have to order"},{"startTime":3310.094,"endTime":3314.104,"body":"books sometimes and all that, but"},{"startTime":3314.114,"endTime":3318.124,"body":"you get a, you get a fun little,"},{"startTime":3314.114,"endTime":3318.124,"body":"you get a fun little gifty for me."},{"startTime":3318.174,"endTime":3323.894,"body":"I make slightly more money if you"},{"startTime":3318.174,"endTime":3323.894,"body":"order directly from me, but the, if"},{"startTime":3323.894,"endTime":3328.164,"body":"you write a review, get it through"},{"startTime":3323.894,"endTime":3328.164,"body":"Amazon and the Amazon reviews are more"},{"startTime":3328.174,"endTime":3329.994,"body":"valuable than the difference in price."},{"startTime":3330.204,"endTime":3330.534,"body":"So yeah."},{"startTime":3331.159,"endTime":3335.069,"body":"Or Barnes and Noble, or if"},{"startTime":3331.159,"endTime":3335.069,"body":"you're a Goodreads person, that's"},{"startTime":3335.089,"endTime":3336.139,"body":"I'm learning about Goodreads."},{"startTime":3336.139,"endTime":3340.149,"body":"I never really did it, but it's, it seems"},{"startTime":3336.139,"endTime":3340.149,"body":"to be a good thing for driving interest"},{"startTime":3340.749,"endTime":3342.319,"body":"if you get some reviews out there."},{"startTime":3342.349,"endTime":3345.209,"body":"So it's a whole, it's a whole"},{"startTime":3342.349,"endTime":3345.209,"body":"new, I mean, that part of it"},{"startTime":3345.209,"endTime":3346.179,"body":"is a whole new thing for me."},{"startTime":3346.179,"endTime":3348.749,"body":"So it's, it's kind of hard to investigate."},{"startTime":3350.084,"endTime":3350.904,"body":"Thank you, Lyle."},{"startTime":3350.974,"endTime":3352.324,"body":"Thank you for being on the show."},{"startTime":3352.334,"endTime":3353.684,"body":"Thank you for creating this."},{"startTime":3354.074,"endTime":3355.504,"body":"You've given us lots to think about."},{"startTime":3355.814,"endTime":3356.514,"body":"Thanks, Ashley."},{"startTime":3356.514,"endTime":3357.564,"body":"I love what you're doing."},{"startTime":3357.634,"endTime":3360.434,"body":"I appreciate you having me on,"},{"startTime":3357.634,"endTime":3360.434,"body":"even though you're focused on"},{"startTime":3360.434,"endTime":3361.714,"body":"the female writers out there."},{"startTime":3362.234,"endTime":3365.184,"body":"I hope some of this is"},{"startTime":3362.234,"endTime":3365.184,"body":"helpful to your folks."},{"startTime":3367.259,"endTime":3370.239,"body":"And with that, we've come to"},{"startTime":3367.259,"endTime":3370.239,"body":"the end of another episode."},{"startTime":3370.299,"endTime":3374.019,"body":"Please make sure you hit subscribe and"},{"startTime":3370.299,"endTime":3374.019,"body":"give me a five star review on Apple."},{"startTime":3374.099,"endTime":3377.939,"body":"Check out the show notes and grab"},{"startTime":3374.099,"endTime":3377.939,"body":"my free Niches Get Riches freelance"},{"startTime":3377.939,"endTime":3381.479,"body":"writing worksheet to brainstorm the"},{"startTime":3377.939,"endTime":3381.479,"body":"best niches for your writing business."},{"startTime":3381.599,"endTime":3384.479,"body":"Until next time, this is"},{"startTime":3381.599,"endTime":3384.479,"body":"Ashley Cisneros Mejia."},{"startTime":3384.479,"endTime":3390.209,"body":"Don't forget, we all get this one,"},{"startTime":3384.479,"endTime":3390.209,"body":"Don't constrain yourself to a box"},{"startTime":3390.209,"endTime":3391.849,"body":"that you were never meant to fit in."},{"startTime":3392.209,"endTime":3395.629,"body":"It is your right to profit"},{"startTime":3392.209,"endTime":3395.629,"body":"from your own creative gifts."},{"startTime":3396.219,"endTime":3400.039,"body":"Our music was composed by Donna"},{"startTime":3396.219,"endTime":3400.039,"body":"Raphael of World Instrumentals."},{"startTime":3400.509,"endTime":3404.039,"body":"Talk Freelance to Me is a"},{"startTime":3400.509,"endTime":3404.039,"body":"product of Fenix Creative Studio."}]}