Is Trauma Destroying Your Body_ What Narcissistic Abuse Does to Your Nervous System
Dr. Kerry: [00:00:00] I felt so disconnected to myself that I, I would've described it like I was a paper doll that was moved about and people were putting paper clothing on me, but that I was flat and dead. What I was presenting was basically it wasn't me. I was way back there somewhere
Liz Tenuto: When you're in those types of environment, you're getting gaslit, you're getting minimized, there's the shame, there's the control, there's the unpredictable behavior, and that puts your body into a chronic state of fight or flight.
If you have had unexplained pain for longer than three months and the doctor doesn't know why, there's such a high chance that it's emotional or trauma-based
Dr. Kerry: What we're finding though is that this is the damage done to sense of self is so profound that the normal pathways to healing don't just work the same
Abuse [00:01:00] doesn't just affect us psychologically or even relationally. It also gets stored in the body, and it h- gets worked out in the body. We often experience it as pain, chronic inflammation, and maybe even disability. Today, Liz Tenuto, the Workout Witch, joins me to talk about how to experience healing starting in our bodies.
I'm so excited to be joined by Liz Tenuto today. I've been watching you for a while, the Workout Witch. In fact, I have one of your somatic courses, uh, for low back pain 'cause I have struggled quite a bit with a lot of chronic pain. So I'd love to hear about how you got interested in the somatic recovery, in how trauma affects the body, and, and yeah, just, just, y- tell me your story.
Liz Tenuto: I got interested in somatics out of desperation. I was also in chronic pain. I started experiencing chronic pain quite young, around age 14, and then by the time I was in my 20s, I had chronic pain in my feet. I had plantar fasciitis, and it was really affecting my [00:02:00] ability to, like, live life and even just go to work.
And so I started getting really, really serious about my healing, um, once it got to that point. I also suffered from insomnia. Mm-hmm. So prior to doing somatic work, I had done ... I had gone to doctors, specialists, physical therapists, chiropractors, and then I also had dabbled in alternative healing like acupuncture, meditation, yoga, craniosacral therapy, massage therapy I tried everything, um, and somatics was the first thing that worked for me long term.
Dr. Kerry: Hmm. Man, I can relate to that. I've been traveling some down those same roads as you. I was telling you off-air that the pain in my feet, and I have arthritis in both feet, got so severe I was actually fantasizing about having prosthetics instead of feet.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: And I thought that that would be a better way to go because, you know, I'd stand up sometimes and literally the level of pain was similar to having labor.
Liz Tenuto: [00:03:00] Yeah. Oh my God.
Dr. Kerry: And I don't think people... I felt like I was walking on, on, on sharp glass.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: That every step was so painful that I was... I, I couldn't bear it. Yeah. But- So it really is amazing how driven you get when you're in these states. And- Yeah ... and how... Yeah. I love that you stumbled into something that's really been a solution.
So help us understand why this worked where other things didn't.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. I was really skeptical at first. It was actually my ballet teacher that suggested to me that I try somatics. Um, and I had seen the somatic class, um, and it was just a bunch of people rolling around on the floor in their pajamas. And- Mm
you know, for me logically, that didn't make sense. I have an academic background in psychology, and I was like, "I don't understand-
Dr. Kerry: Yeah ...
Liz Tenuto: how this is going to help me with..." This just, it felt a little woo-woo to me. But I actually cried in the bathroom after my first lesson 'cause my body had never felt so good.
And [00:04:00] then, you know, as I continued to learn more and more about somatics, I learned that like, oh, it's actually based in neuroscience research, and it's really legitimate. It just looks- Different than what we've done historically to, you know, reduce pain, to find relief. It's a different looking thing, and that, I think, for people can make them skeptical at first.
Dr. Kerry: Mm. So let's go back to what happens s- neurologically to us when we're in states of unsafety or lack of safety.
Liz Tenuto: I think what a lot of narcissistic abuse survivors don't realize is that it's a really extreme environment to be in. Um, and especially if you grew up in a narcissistic family system or if you were in a narcissistic relationship, a romantic relationship, you're in that environment a lot during your day.
It's one of the primary places where you spend time. And [00:05:00] when you're in those types of environments, you're getting gaslit, you're getting minimized, there's the shame, there's the control, there's the unpredictable behavior, and that puts your body into a chronic state of fight or flight, which makes you live in your stress physiology.
So we all have stress physiology, and a little bit of stress, short-term stress, is actually good for us. We have a built-in fight or flight response. When that happens sometimes, like, you know, back in the day when, like, a bear was chasing you, that's a good response to have. But what happens with folks who are living in an environment with narcissistic abuse is that that bear is always there.
You're always arou- you're in that environment with the bear. You're living with the bear, and so you're living in constant fight or flight. And over time, when you're living in your stress physiology, it starts to wear your body down. Your body [00:06:00] stops prioritizing systems that it doesn't deem necessary for survival, like digestion being one of them, which is really surprising.
It prioritizes your brain, for example, over digestion. Over time, that has a domino effect on your health. You start, like, with bracing your muscles a little bit, but then that, over time, becomes unexplained pain where you go to the doctor, and then you can't figure out what it is, and then it becomes chronic pain, and then it, and then it kind of just dominoes into- autoimmune conditions or arthritis or, you know, more serious health concerns the longer you continue to live in that environment.
And it's really just your body's normal way of trying to protect you
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. I was really shocked. I had heard people tell me that my muscles were very tense. Kind of equi- equated that to strength, not realizing that that was actually guardedness, protectedness-
Liz Tenuto: Totally ...
Dr. Kerry: and that it was [00:07:00] also exhausting because it wasn't meant to be in that state.
Liz Tenuto: Yep. It liv- it takes up a lot of your energy. Um- Mm ... having, having your muscles braced and, and clenched all the time takes up a lot of physical energy, and emotional energy too. Over time it starts to give you low mood.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. And then I w- I also wasn't aware how everything is connected. I mean, if you think about it skeletally it makes sense, but, but that, that it would have a ripple effect.
It doesn't just affect that one area- Yeah ... but that you're gonna have a, it's gonna s- cross, like if my l- feet are hurting me that means that a, my calves are probably too tight and my quad. You know what I'm saying? It just kinda goes right up the system.
Liz Tenuto: Totally. There's a term that we use called the kinetic chain, which is essentially everything in your body is connected and- In somatics, we think about the pelvis as kind of like the foundational place for body health.
And when you get your pelvis in correct alignment and when you're no longer, like, bracing the muscles in your pelvic floor, that translates both up the [00:08:00] spine and down into your legs as well.
Dr. Kerry: Interesting.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: The other thing that really puzzled me or kind of I didn't realize, I mean, 'cause it's- we even, the disciplines, we separate them so much.
We act like medicine's different from psychology, that's different from, um, when we go work with a, a physical therapist or PT. We act like these are, like, silos, and they're actually really connected, and that what's happening in our day-to-day life has ramifications across the board, not just how we're feeling it relationally or whether we think the relationship can be saved or not, or how safe we personally feel, but it's also having a cost to us physically as well, so that many people end up getting chronic diseases, you know, sort of inflammatory diseases because of these chronic state of being in a fight or flight state.
When did you kinda have that aha, or was it something that you already sort of intuitively knew, Liz, uh, about being stuck in fight or flight?
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. I really feel like I grew up in fight or flight. I'm from a narcissistic family system. Um, my dad was quite [00:09:00] angry all the time, so I really did feel like I lived with a bear growing up.
And then, you know, I also experienced sexual abuse in childhood, so I had some, like, big T, capital T trauma going on. And, you know, I think that it's such an important note that you just made about how everything isn't in a silo and it's all connected, because I was trying- I did therapy, I did EMDR, I went to the doctor.
I, I felt like I tried all the things that I was supposed to try, and it just wasn't clicking for me. And it took me a really long time, it took me 10 years of trying to heal to, like, really discover somatics and really be like, "Oh, okay, this is, for me, the missing link to healing- Hmm ... my body from all of the stress and all of the trauma that I've been through in my life."
The therapy is still really important to me. I still do EMDR on occasion with my therapist, but somatics for me was the missing link because [00:10:00] so many of my physical symptoms were related to C-PTSD, were related to narcissistic abuse, were related to sexual assault. And, you know, doctors just didn't have answers for why, why I had so much pelvic pain, why I had plantar fasciitis.
And it just took me such a long time, and I really learned it on my own through my own journey and my own discovery, and that is one of the reasons why I'm so vocal now about if you have had unexplained pain for longer than three months and the doctor doesn't know why, there's such a high chance that it's emotional or trauma-based.
Like, it's, it's a very, very high chance, and it's worth just trying out- somatic exercises to see, you know, does this make me feel better or not? Because if it doesn't- Mm-hmm ... you know, you lose 20 minutes of your day, and then you can go on. But- Yeah ... you know, but it's cheaper than a doctor's appointment or, or [00:11:00] anything like that.
So for me, it was definitely the missing link, and it took me a really long time to figure that out, and that's why I'm so vocal now about it.
Dr. Kerry: I love that. I, and I think the other thing we miss is that this is a negative feedback, or I'm sorry, negative cycle, a negative loop. You know, what I found is that as my world got smaller, I moved less, the pain increased, my weight went up.
I mean, there's ... And then, and then you- whatever you try to do one thing, everything seems to depend on the next thing, and it's really hard, to the point I was feeling defeated, like, like a huge failure because I couldn't stop it. And yet I knew that society was watching me and thought, "It's a simple fix.
Just exercise more or eat less," and that you don't realize that no, all of this is kind of working together against you.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah, absolutely. And there, there is such a important conversation about, like, sudden dramatic shifts in weight that's really important to address. So some people will gain a lot of weight, and some people will [00:12:00] lose a lot of weight, um, when they've experienced, you know, ext- a phase of extreme stress or when they've experienced trauma.
That sudden dramatic shift is definitely a distress signal, and it's normally not ... And, and I think we, like, pathologize it, like you're eating too much, or it's stress weight, or it's emotional weight. But it's, I think calling it stress weight is the most appropriate term because when you're that stressed out, it really does change your metabolism.
For some people, it really slows it down. For some other people, it really spikes it up, and that's also just a big thing to notice. And I think it's hard for women, too, because it's, our weight is so disgust, you know? And it's like, like I think from like a hangover from the '60s, like, you know, being a certain body type is, like morally better.
Well,
Dr. Kerry: yeah. Yeah, we hear that.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: We're- Where people will actually write in and like, "You're a waste of space." You know, they'll say really [00:13:00] awful, crude things to people-
Liz Tenuto: It's awful ... who are struggling with weight. Yeah. Or just
Dr. Kerry: overweight.
Liz Tenuto: It's awful. It's awful. And, you know, I think what's important for women, especially women over the age of 35, is like, we wanna have a stable weight.
We, it just does, we just wanna make sure it's not fluctuating in these big- Mm ... dramatic swings.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah, and then when menopause sets in, that's a whole nother-
Liz Tenuto: Totally. Whole other thing to add in ... stupid disease.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. That, that really is a burden. I mean, it took me, I went in early and, and it took a long time for it to, the, all the effects to start to really sh- I thought I was gonna be kinda resistant to it.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: No, I got to my, so I was in menopause by 50. Mm-hmm. But when I hit 60, suddenly the weight started coming on, typical for a menopausal woman. And-
Liz Tenuto: Yeah ...
Dr. Kerry: wow, you, you can eat, uh, within your calorie limit and still n- you know, e- eat under it and still not lose weight. It's, it's really challenging.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
That's a whole other- Factor. Yeah
Dr. Kerry: It is. It is. So let's talk about what somatics are. We- 'cause you've [00:14:00] been re- referencing it and we haven't really defined it. So let's get into what this actually, what this practice c- actually is.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. Soma is the Greek word for body, so somatic healing literally translates to body healing.
Somatic exercises, what I teach, are tiny micro movements that you can do from bed or on the floor that release tension out of your body, they release stress out of your body, they release trauma out of your body, and they regulate your nervous system.
Dr. Kerry: That's powerful. I kind of was a disbeliever-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kerry: um, until I had my second C-section.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: I was in the Northern California doing a hot lava ba- you know, a hot bath- Mm-hmm ... one of the hot, from the sulfur in the water and all of that, and they then do a massage, and usually massage doesn't include your abdomen area. Usually they- Right ... sort of stay away from the area. But this person started to rub that area and I start, I found myself crying.
Liz Tenuto: Mm.
Dr. Kerry: And I realized [00:15:00] that because all the cesareans had been unexpected, emergency related cesareans- Yeah ... so it wasn't like I went in thinking, "Oh, this is gonna happen to me." It, it was as a result of things going wrong, and then it happened. It was sort of the final thing that happened. And of course I was scared about my baby, you know, each of the babies who they had different kind of problems each time.
Liz Tenuto: Of course.
Dr. Kerry: Um, and I ha- I had no idea that the body remembered, and when it was being, that area was being massaged, it was connecting to that trauma.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. Yeah, and then it all of a sudden came up for you even though it was probably years later, right?
Dr. Kerry: Yeah, it was the last thing that was on my mind was- Yeah
it wasn't that.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. So it's amazing how y- you know, even I think of, um, van der Kolk's book- Mm-hmm ... The Body Keeps the Score, how the body in itself has a memory.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm. Yep. We call it somatic memory. The research is showing now that only 10 to 20% of your trauma is stored in verbal memory. Um, and the rest is stored in your body, so in your cells, in your tissues.
And that's why somatics [00:16:00] is, is such a important piece of the healing puzzle. Because if we only address the verbal, the mental, and the emotional, we're, like, missing out on 80 to 90% of where the trauma is actually being stored. And I wanna just clarify that I love therapy, and I think it's super important and wonderful, and I'm, I'm not saying that one is better than the other.
I just have noticed that somatics is often the missing link for people.
Dr. Kerry: It is. It is. And, and no, and I think I'm totally comfortable with you saying that because the research is coming out saying that some of the more traditional forms of work just doesn't get to the issues that people with narcissistic abuse need.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: And as I've b- you know, 'cause this is, in a way, I know some of us have s- I'm thinking Sandra Brown's work has been around, like, 30, 40 years. Mm-hmm. It's not new work, but we haven't spent the kind of time doing a lot of research, like the whole range of research into this topic. What we're finding, though, is that this is, the damage [00:17:00] done to sense of self is so profound that the normal pathways to healing don't just work the same.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: They have to be done differently. And, and that's why, in fact, I, I have moved away from individual counseling because I think there's something powerful about being seen in a group-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kerry: having h- finding safety and, and com- understanding and validation- Mm-hmm ... knowing that you're, because they're so is- this is such an isolating type of abuse-
Liz Tenuto: Yeah
Dr. Kerry: that you feel like you're alien, like you're on the outside, nobody gets you.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: And to know that you're a part of a rich community of people who've experienced this that can hear and tolerate your pain-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kerry: I think goes really a long ways in the healing. But you're right. We don't incorporate enough of the somatic piece to the healing.
We really don't.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. I love when you said, I think, you know, narcissistic abuse at its core is a, is relational trauma.
Dr. Kerry: Mm-hmm.
Liz Tenuto: It's, uh, you have trauma within your relationships, whether it's a, from a parent or from a romantic partner. Um, and so [00:18:00] healing in com- you know, not that individual talk therapy doesn't work, but- Yeah
healing in community- In a s- in a group really addresses that relational trauma where you're not just in relationship with your therapist, you're also in relationship with all of these other people in your group.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. You need that being seen part.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: And being seen safely in a setting of more than one.
Because it often is a community experience- Mm-hmm ... whether you realize it or not, because I know for me it felt like it was lived out on multiple layers. There was what was happening in the house between he and I, then what was happening in my extended family about what they knew or didn't know. Mm-hmm.
And then what the community witnessed- Mm-hmm ... and its opinion on me, and the way the smear campaign gets activated-
Liz Tenuto: Yeah ...
Dr. Kerry: sort of pla- so it's very, like, multilayered in, in multiple relationships. There's, like, judgment going on in so many different directions that I felt at the time that I was... I felt so disconnected to myself-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm
Dr. Kerry: that I, I would've described it like I was a paper doll-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kerry: that [00:19:00] was moved about, and people were putting paper clothing on me- Right ... but that I was flat and dead. What I was presenting was basically, it wasn't me. Mm-hmm. I was way back there somewhere.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. I relate. I had a very profound Like not knowing who I was anymore when I left my marriage to a narcissist.
Yeah. So I, I really get that.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah. So what was using somatics like for you then? When you started to- so here you are, you've kind of run the gamut, tried all these different modalities, nothing seemed to be getting through. Can you kind of... Like, what was the first, like, wow, this is different?
Liz Tenuto: You know, I think the first lesson that I took with my mentor, I cried in the bathroom afterwards because my body had never felt so good.
I was a dancer m- when I was really young, when I was in my teens and early 20s, and so I was pretty hard on my body all the time.
Dr. Kerry: Mm.
Liz Tenuto: And I wasn't really sure if my foot pain was from trauma or if it was from [00:20:00] dance or, you know, what was going on, so I actually had stopped dancing for two years in college and my pain got significantly worse.
Mm-hmm. Like you were saying, it was like I was no longer moving. Yeah. But it was very counterintuitive for me and I had to do a lot of kind of like testing and, and figuring it out on my own. When I got back into dance, I started feeling better, but I still had the chronic pain, I still had the insomnia.
Tried somatics, cried after my first lesson 'cause my body felt warm and tingly, and I felt like I was, like, just in this state the entire class of just actively pouring love and nourishment onto myself. Somatics is taught very differently than yoga, for example, where there's no, like, right or wrong way to do the movement.
Your interpretation of the movement is the correct interpretation. Um, and it's really about you connecting to your inner landscape and you connecting mind, body, and emotion in somatic healing. [00:21:00] So-
Dr. Kerry: Hmm ...
Liz Tenuto: the experience that you had, for example, with the massage where they touched your stomach and you started crying, that was a moment for you where you were connecting emotional, you know, emotions, memory, and your body, and it's a really powerful moment when you let yourself cry in those circumstances.
It's normally a huge release for people. And somatics is so good because it gives you that designated space and time to do that. Mm. Whereas I think in our normal day, you know, if I'm working out or if I'm doing Pilates, like, the goal is to get strong, right? I'm not necessarily having this goal of processing my emotions, of feeling my body, of, of letting myself be unambitious or, you know, letting myself just exist how I am and not pushing through, and somatics is really great for giving you that space.[00:22:00]
And for me, I was kind of like perfectionistic, good girl, type A. You know, I think my Way of, um, trying to heal from being a narcissistic family was, like, being perfect and being a people pleaser, making myself really small. And somatics kind of, like, blew all of that out the water for me, and was like, "Actually, what if you just have this time to connect with yourself and who you are, and, like, find out how do you really feel?
Who are you really?" Instead of being like a paper doll or completely losing yourself to these other people who are abusive, which is a totally valid response to abuse. Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah.
Liz Tenuto: It's just when we get out of it, how do we get ourselves back? And that's-
Dr. Kerry: Yeah ...
Liz Tenuto: yeah, that's my, what I really work with.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah, and that's tricky.
You, you reminded me, that story that you shared there reminded me that I learned, 'cause I also grew up in a [00:23:00] emotionally neglectful, abusive home as well, and that I learned, don't cry and make a noise.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: So I cried silently. Yeah. I literal- And I'd even kind of brag about the fact that I could cry silently- Right
without making a single sound. In fact, I got so good at it that it didn't hit me until I had a therapist observe me weeping, like, in, in tremendous pain, grieving, weeping, and then within seconds of me stopping, my face went right back to the neutral color. Yeah. There was no holdover of the experience. And she's like, "You just trans-" And I didn't feel like I transitioned.
She goes, "But you look like as if you didn't cry, you hadn't been crying." Right. And I'm thinking, yeah, well, in the environment I grew up with, showing that you'd been crying would've been dangerous.
Liz Tenuto: Right.
Dr. Kerry: That I, my body had learned to mask even symptoms of pain like that.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: So for me, one of the practices I've been doing is let myself make noise, which at first was hard.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah, I bet.
Dr. Kerry: I felt stupid. Yeah, I felt noisy. I, it felt scary. It was just really... And recently I was crying and I realized [00:24:00] I'm noisy, and I was like, "Yeah, you know, I'm so happy." Yeah, I mean it's- You know? I know ...
Liz Tenuto: a huge success.
Dr. Kerry: Yeah, it was. Yeah. But, but as I was think- watch- listening to you, I wondered, like, for example, I'm s- I'm supposed to walk so much a day.
Mm-hmm. That's one of my assignments. And I get so focused on the volume and how many steps am I getting in that I'm not really thinking about connecting-
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kerry: with myself.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kerry: And I wonder, like, what would ha- would it be better if I slowed down and just really connected with my body-
Liz Tenuto: Yeah ...
Dr. Kerry: as I walk, versus ma- meeting the goal?
Liz Tenuto: It would be. You would get more benefit, um, from- Interesting ... from the movement. When you're really goal-oriented, you can get, uh, kind of anxious and panicked about just, like, achieving that goal, right? Like Yes. I talk to people about this, like, people who track their sleep, and then they're like, "I'm sleeping worse," and I'm like, "Like-"
Dr. Kerry: Oh.
Liz Tenuto: And I'm like, because sometimes tracking the sleep makes you anxious and panicked about what your sleep score is, and now the goal- Yeah ... is your sleep score, not actually just feeling [00:25:00] well rested. Um- Yeah ... and so the same thing for you, like, with being active and, and getting a certain number of steps in.
The goal is moving your body and getting that relief that you get physically, mentally, emotionally from the movement, right? the health benefits of going on a walk. But, you know, if you're feeling into your body more, you're gonna get a lot more benefits. Like, you'll get bilateral stimulation if you walk for longer than about 20 minutes, which is the same, um, eye movement that happens during EMDR therapy, which helps with emotional processing and stress.
And even just, like, sensing and feeling your body as you walk gives you so much more connection to yourself, and it's gonna put you in this really beautiful present state with where you're walking. And, um, one thing that I tell people is to, like, imagine you rolling through your toes and, like, letting your toes bend as you walk.
Dr. Kerry: Mm-hmm.
Liz Tenuto: So, and I call it [00:26:00] Shakira toes, and this is something that's really helpful for people with foot pain because when you have foot pain, you'll tend to grip your feet, and you start to kind of walk like they're bricks, right? Yes. And I just- Yes,
Dr. Kerry: I call it clubbed. Yes. I call it they're clubbed. Mm-hmm.
Liz Tenuto: But you're, but it's like what if I let the foot bend and the toes articulate a little bit? How does that-
Dr. Kerry: Mm-hmm ...
Liz Tenuto: feel? And so it's getting into this kind of, like, sensory experience with your body that is what's so healing for it.
Dr. Kerry: So if you do this, what happens? Like, so how, in other words, what's the re- why is this working?
Help me kinda explain from the stuck in fight or flight, what, where, where is, where are we taking people by doing somatic healing?
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. So the nervous system has the fight-flight response, which is like almost like your nervous system is stuck in its on position where you feel wired and restless, and maybe you're doing workaholism or [00:27:00] perfectionism, or you keep going on vacation to avoid your feelings or you're numbing out to, you know, just hours of books or just like escaping in something, right?
Then at the other side of the spectrum we have freeze, which is essentially like your nervous system is in its off position, which is where you have no energy, you're constantly exhausted, you can barely get out of bed. And it's normal for survivors of narcissistic abuse and for people in general, even in the same day to slide between fight, flight and freeze.
But these are the extremes of the nervous system. And then in the middle there's this Goldilocks place, uh, which is called the ventral vagal state of the nervous system, which is where you're in homeostasis. So you feel open, you feel playful, you feel relaxed but curious. Um, you feel like you're able to be spontaneous.
You're able to be social at [00:28:00] the level that's comfortable for you. And this, what's so interesting about somatics is regardless of whether you're in fight-flight or you're in freeze, somatics is you practicing the ventral vagal state the entire time you're doing somatics. So you're just constantly reinforcing this homeostasis, this place where you're relaxed but not shut down.
You know, you're open but you're not like wired. You're in this middle place where you're grounded And the more you practice that state, the more that state becomes your default, right? Mm. So it's similar to, like, lifting weights. Yeah? Okay. If we, if we do 10 minutes ... So I do five to 10 minutes of somatics per day, and that's what I suggest for my students as well.
Some of them do it for, like, 30 days. Some of them do it for 90. Some of them do it long-term. And for people with, like, chronic health conditions or [00:29:00] capital T trauma, I've found that long-term works best, but it's only, like, five or 10 minutes a day. You can do it in bed. It's very relaxing. Essentially, it's like the more we lift the weight, the stronger that muscle becomes.
The more, with somatics, we're practicing that ventral vagal state, that open, grounded state, the stronger that state becomes, and the more that state becomes your default. You're literally building new neural pathways into that state as you're doing the somatic exercises. So those neural pathways, those new ones start to become stronger than the old ones, the fight/flight response.
So if you grew up in fight, flight, freeze, it's very normal for those responses to be very strong for you as an adult. So for me, I've had to really practice this ventral vagal state- So that that is now my default and I'm not defaulting to my childhood responses, and I'm, you know, now able to be grounded when I get stressed out [00:30:00] instead of immediately going into fight or flight.
Dr. Kerry: That's fascinating. Yeah, 'cause I know so many of us are very aware of how these states of trauma does affect wiring, does affect neurology, and then we end up feeling sort of, again, at that helplessness, like sort of like passive helplessly, like I can't do anything about it. And what I'm hearing you say is, no, you can.
Liz Tenuto: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry: You can actually create a space and a way of being that will start to create new pathways that you can then, over time, your brain will start to use more because it's building them up.
Liz Tenuto: Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Dr. Kerry: Love that.
Liz Tenuto: Exactly. I
Dr. Kerry: love that.
Liz Tenuto: And a big part of somatic work is called titration, which is just where we're incrementally taking baby steps.
So we're not, like, going super hard. You know? It's not like the type of exercise where we're gonna go, like, super hard and, you know, have this external goal that we're meeting this goal, but we're taking baby steps, small little, tiny steps consistently every day that regulate your nervous system and [00:31:00] get you into this state, and make this state stronger and stronger over time.
Dr. Kerry: That's fascinating. Well, I would love to jump over to the podcast extra and talk about, for those of us who say, "Nah, this is not applicable to me. I'm not in chronic pain. Um, I don't even think that the, the abuse has affected me that much. I think I'm..." Let's, let's talk about how to recognize that really maybe that's not the case, that you are what I call armored up, whether you realize it or not.
But how can people find out more about you and your work?
Liz Tenuto: Yeah. On Instagram, @theworkoutwitch with an underscore at the end. If you want, you can DM me "release" and I will send you a one-minute exercise to try. It's very relaxing and you can do it in bed. My website is theworkoutwitch.com and my book, When the Body Speaks, is available at theworkoutwitch.com/book.
Dr. Kerry: Great. Thank you. G- by the way, I meant to say congratulations on the book. That's awesome.
Liz Tenuto: Thank you so much. That's a
Dr. Kerry: huge, huge accomplishment.
Liz Tenuto: Thank you.
Dr. Kerry: Well, thank you so much for being with me [00:32:00] today. I deeply appreciate it.
Liz Tenuto: Thank you, Kerry. It's been great.