How Narcissists' Use Breadcrumbs of Love to Create an Agonizing Confusion

Trauma bonds are one of the most misunderstood yet powerful connections that narcissists and toxic individuals exploit to keep their partners trapped.

These bonds create a confusing dynamic where the very person causing harm becomes the source of comfort—a cycle that is as addictive as it is painful.

In this replay of a fan-favorite episode, Lisa Sonni joins me to break down the making and breaking of trauma bonds. Together, we uncover how these devastating ties form, why they’re so hard to escape, and what you can do to break free.

If you’re battling a trauma bond—whether you’re still in the relationship or working to heal—there is hope.

Join the Trauma Bond Recovery Group Coaching led by myself, Dr. Kerry, and Lisa Sonni. Get the support, personalized tools, and proven strategies you need to reclaim your freedom and peace of mind.

👉 Secure your spot today: https://kerrymcavoyphd.com/trauma-bond-recovery/

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Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D., a mental health specialist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships, deconstructing narcissism, and understanding various other mental health-related issues. Her memoir, Love You More: The Harrowing Tale of Lies, Sex Addiction, & Double Cross, gives an uncensored glimpse into the dynamics of narcissistic abuse.

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• 20:35 (Cont.) How Narcissists' Use Breadcrumbs of Love to Create an Agonizing Confusion

Transcript

EP 97: How Narcissists' Use Breadcrumbs of Love to Create an Agonizing Confusion

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
This week, in light of the New Year holiday, I'm going to feature the best interview based upon the fan favorite. And that was with Lisa Sonni two years ago, talking about the making and breaking of a trauma bond.

Tara Ball
As a survivor of domestic assault and narcissistic abuse, Lisa's firsthand experience has led her to where she is today—a certified life and relationship coach who helps clients of all genders and walks of life overcome challenges stemming from traumatic partnerships. Her expertise is geared towards getting clients to a good space in their lives and within themselves. She's the author of multiple books, online courses, including the Trauma Bond Recovery Course, and she's a content creator.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Thank you so much, Lisa, for being here.

Lisa Sonni
Thank you. It's awesome to be here and talking about my most favorite subject.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
So, yeah. So how did you actually become focused on trauma bonds specifically?

Lisa Sonni
My own personal experience with a narcissistic, abusive relationship really led me to dive into the awareness of why people stay. It was a real need of myself to figure out what kept me in that. I had always felt like I was too smart. You, of course, find out that education has absolutely nothing to do with it. Intelligence is not—it’s not a factor. But it was this need for me to understand why I stayed that led me to want to understand why people stay.

While not everyone who stays or struggles to leave is in a trauma bond, many people are. And it's not something that people know about. I actually remember conversations with my own abuser talking about, like, I feel like I have Stockholm syndrome. I just don't understand. You know, when he would just roll his eyes, like, "Oh, okay, I'm your captor," and think it was this ridiculous thing. But as it turns out, there's such a similar dynamic to exactly that.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah. So what were you feeling that made you know something was wrong, that this was not a normal connection in a relationship?

Lisa Sonni
Well, in fairness, a lot of it felt normal—not good, but normal. Even though I will unequivocally say it is not normal. But for me, what I was feeling at the time when I really felt like I could not leave was this feeling of being stuck. So I typically say to people, if you feel trapped, that's a huge part of it.

I felt like I loved him and I hated him. He was the knife. He was the Band-Aid. He was the comfort. He was the pain. I couldn't leave. The thought of leaving would sometimes give me panic attacks. I lost sleep over it. The thought of leaving—"overwhelming" feels like not the right word, but it felt impossible.

Leaving? No, that's not an option. I loved him too much. So you do feel like you love the person, and you also kind of feel like you hate them. There can even be this feeling—it's more than just love and hate. You empathize with them so much from knowing what they've been through that you start to feel what they feel to a degree that’s more empathy than you could ever have imagined having for another person.

But you’re making excuses. Whether it's he or she—in my case, it was he—but you feel like, "He just doesn't know what love is." You feel like you're abandoning the person. You feel guilty for even thinking about leaving when they've been through so much, or you've been through so much together.

But have you been through so much together? Or have they put you through so much that you've, quote, "overcome together"? Have you, really? They've put you through this abuse, and every time you overcome these big explosive or highly emotional arguments, you feel like you've overcome something. And I think it bonds you further.

But ultimately, you just feel like you can't leave. Parts of you know. The logical part of your brain is saying, "Leave. You need to leave. This is wrong. This is bad." You may even have friends and family telling you to leave, but you may also be hiding what's really going on from your friends and family.

I think people protect for two reasons. One, they're protecting the reputation of their partner, but you're also protecting your own reputation because if you stay, if you don't actually leave, then people are going to look at you like you're insane for staying in a relationship that you yourself have described so poorly.

So all of these feelings—it’s just a state of confusion. You just don't know what you're doing here. You struggle to sort of reconcile why you're still in the relationship.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah, what you're describing feels like this internal war where one part of you knows this is toxic and unhealthy, but another part feels deeply attached and almost obligated to stay. It’s like those two parts are fighting against each other.

Lisa Sonni
Yes, exactly. It’s a war within yourself. And part of the problem is that the relationship is like a roller coaster of extreme highs and lows. Those moments when everything seems good, when they’re being loving, attentive, and giving you the affection you've been craving—it creates this hope that maybe things will finally change.

But then the lows come. The manipulation, the gaslighting, the devaluation. You feel completely devastated. And that cycle of hope and despair is what makes it so hard to leave. It’s addictive. Your brain is releasing chemicals like dopamine during those highs, and you get hooked on it, constantly chasing that feeling again.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
It’s almost like the relationship creates this kind of chemical addiction in your brain, isn’t it?

Lisa Sonni
Yes! That’s exactly what it is. It’s a trauma bond, but it’s also a chemical bond. The highs release feel-good chemicals like dopamine, and the lows trigger your stress hormones, like cortisol. Over time, your brain and body become conditioned to the cycle. You’re living in survival mode.

That’s why leaving feels like withdrawal. It’s physically and emotionally painful. Even though you know logically that leaving is the best thing for you, your body and brain are screaming at you to go back. It’s like an addiction. You’re not addicted to the person—you’re addicted to the cycle of emotional highs and lows.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah, and I think that’s such an important distinction for people to understand. They think, “Why can’t I just leave? Why am I so attached to this person?” And it’s not the person—it’s the way the relationship has been conditioned.

Lisa Sonni
Exactly. I tell people all the time, you’re not crazy, and you’re not weak. This is what happens when someone manipulates and conditions you over time. The trauma bond doesn’t form overnight—it’s a slow process. They build you up with love bombing, making you feel like you’re on top of the world. And then, bit by bit, they tear you down.

But the thing is, they don’t do it all at once. If they had, you would’ve walked away immediately. It’s gradual. It’s like the analogy of boiling a frog. If you put a frog in boiling water, it’ll jump right out. But if you slowly turn up the heat, the frog doesn’t realize what’s happening until it’s too late.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Oh, that’s such a good analogy. It’s so true. And the gradual nature of the abuse is part of what makes it so hard to recognize.

Lisa Sonni
Exactly. It’s insidious. You don’t realize how bad it’s gotten until you’re already deep in it. And by then, your self-esteem is so eroded, and the trauma bond is so strong, that leaving feels impossible. You start to believe the lies they’ve told you about yourself—that you’re worthless, that no one else would want you, that you’re the problem.

And when you’re in that state of confusion and self-doubt, they have all the power.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
It’s heartbreaking, but it makes so much sense. And I think what’s really powerful about understanding trauma bonds is that once you can name it, you can start to break free from it.

Lisa Sonni
Yes. Awareness is the first step. When you start to understand what a trauma bond is and how it works, you can begin to separate yourself from the cycle. You can start to see the relationship for what it really is—manipulative, abusive, and toxic.

It’s not easy, but once you see it, you can’t unsee it. And that’s when you can start taking steps to break free.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
So true. And I love that you emphasize that this isn’t about weakness—it’s about how the brain responds to abuse. Understanding that can be so empowering.

Lisa Sonni
Yes, exactly. It’s not a weakness. It’s not about intelligence or strength—it’s about biology, psychology, and manipulation. I think one of the most damaging things people can hear from others is, “Why didn’t you just leave?” or “How could you stay in that?” It reinforces the shame victims already feel. But when you understand that trauma bonds are real, and they’re powerful, you can let go of that shame and start focusing on healing.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
That’s such an important point. So often, survivors carry this deep shame, and they blame themselves for what happened. It’s like, “Why didn’t I see it sooner? Why didn’t I leave?” But they’re asking the wrong questions, aren’t they?

Lisa Sonni
Exactly. Instead of asking, “Why didn’t I leave?” we should be asking, “Why did someone abuse me? Why did someone manipulate me in this way?” The blame lies with the abuser, not the victim. No one deserves to be treated like that, and no one goes into a relationship expecting to be abused.

Abusers are very skilled at what they do. They know how to manipulate, how to lie, how to gaslight. They know how to keep you hooked. It’s not your fault that you stayed—it’s a reflection of how powerful the manipulation was.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yes. And I think this is why education about trauma bonds is so critical. Because once you know what’s happening, you can begin to dismantle it. So, Lisa, what are some of the first steps someone can take if they recognize they’re in a trauma bond?

Lisa Sonni
The first step is awareness—understanding that you’re in a trauma bond and naming it. That’s huge. Because until you see the relationship for what it really is, you’ll stay stuck in the cycle.

The second step is to start building a support system. Whether it’s trusted friends, family members, a therapist, or a coach—surround yourself with people who can offer validation and perspective. When you’re in a trauma bond, your perception of reality is so skewed. You need people who can help you see things clearly.

And then the third step is to start setting boundaries. Even if you’re not ready to leave yet, you can begin to set small boundaries to protect yourself emotionally and mentally. For example, stop engaging in arguments or responding to their attempts to pull you back into the cycle.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
That’s such great advice. I think people underestimate how powerful those small steps can be. Even something as simple as deciding not to engage in an argument can be a big shift.

Lisa Sonni
Yes, absolutely. Because every time you set a boundary, you’re reclaiming a little bit of your power. You’re teaching yourself that you have a say in how you’re treated. It builds confidence and strength over time.

The other thing I would say is to start reconnecting with yourself. In an abusive relationship, you lose touch with who you are. The abuser’s voice becomes so loud that it drowns out your own. So it’s important to start rediscovering what you like, what you value, what you want for your life.

That can look like journaling, picking up hobbies you used to enjoy, or even just spending time alone and listening to your own thoughts. The more you reconnect with yourself, the less control the abuser has over you.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
That’s such a beautiful way to look at it—reclaiming your power and reconnecting with yourself. Healing isn’t just about leaving the relationship; it’s about rebuilding yourself afterward.

Lisa Sonni
Exactly. Leaving is just the first step. Breaking the trauma bond takes time, and healing is a process. But every small step you take gets you closer to freedom and closer to yourself.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
I love that. Lisa, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and insights today. I know this conversation will resonate deeply with so many people who are struggling to break free.

Lisa Sonni
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been an honor to talk about this and hopefully give someone hope that they can get out and heal.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Absolutely. And for those of you listening, if you’re struggling with a trauma bond, know that you’re not alone. There is hope, and there is help. Take it one step at a time, and remember that healing is possible.

Well, that’s a wrap for this week’s episode. Are you following me on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook? Find me at Kerry McAvoy, PhD. And whether you’re in, considering leaving, or have left a narcissistic relationship, you can find community support at my Toxic Free Relationship Club.

You can learn about this resource and others at KerryMcAvoyPhD.com. I’ll see you back here next week.