Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse
Confused by your relationship? Constantly second-guessing yourself, walking on eggshells, or feeling emotionally drained? Whether you’re still in the chaos or finding your footing after leaving, this podcast is your lifeline.
Join mental health experts Dr. Kerry McAvoy and Lisa Sonni as they uncover the hidden dynamics of toxic relationships. From understanding destructive personalities and their manipulative tactics to exploring the stages of abuse and how to rebuild after the damage, you’ll gain the clarity and tools needed to break free and heal.
If you’re ready to reclaim your self-worth and discover the path to emotional freedom, hit play and start your recovery journey today.
Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse
Is It Narcissism or Autism? When Neurodivergence Is Used as an Excuse
Is it autism or narcissism? It’s become trendy lately to excuse toxic/abusive behavior as neurodivergence.
Today, Erica Little-Herron, an expert/advocate on autism, joins us to discuss the key differences between narcissism and autism.
Looking for the Podcast Interview with Erica Little-Herron?
🔹Learn in this week's exclusive Podcast Extra interview why Erica Little-Herron thinks the autistic community is frequently targeted by narcissists when you subscribe to the Breaking Free from Narc Abuse newsletter. Gain immediate access to over 45 video expert interviews designed to help you move forward.
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Kerry McAvoy, PhD
Lisa Sonni
More About Us!
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D.
Dr. Kerry, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.
Lisa Sonni
Lisa Sonni is a certified Life & Relationship Coach, specializing in trauma bond recovery and abuse education, who helps clients from all walks of life overcome challenges stemming from traumatic partnerships. She has published an online self-guided course, The Trauma Bond Recovery Course, and several books, The Trauma Bond Recovery Journal, and Surviving to Thriving: A Six-Step Blueprint to Narcissistic Abuse Healing and Recovery.
With 7 professional certifications and her own personal experience as a survivor of narcissistic abuse, her expertise is geared towards getting clients to a good space in their lives and within themselves. Lisa has two children and enjoys cooking, reading, and walks. She is a popular content creator on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube under the name Stronger Than Before with over 1M followers, where she educates people on abuse tactics, narcissism and domestic violence. She has helped thousands of women exit and rebuild their lives.
00:00:04:12 - 00:00:23:17
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Is there a connection between autism and narcissism? Could your narcissistic partner actually be autistic? Well, the answer that question today, Erica Little Heron's joining us to talk about the differences between narcissism and autism.
00:00:23:19 - 00:00:44:12
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
So I'm so thrilled today to be joined by Erica Little Heron, who is known on TikTok. What really attracted me to your content, Erica, was you go into a lot of depth about what it's like to be an autistic woman, what it's like to be autistic, and lately there's been increased interest in the connection. If there is one between narcissism and autism.
00:00:44:14 - 00:01:04:03
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
In fact, some people have been stepping up and saying that maybe their partner isn't narcissistic, they're just a misunderstood autistic person. So I was thrilled to have you on today so that we can talk about what that is. So let's start off like helping us understand maybe what autism actually is for anyone who's like, maybe vague or unclear about it.
00:01:04:03 - 00:01:11:21
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
And I know I just asked you a massively big question, but what would you say to somebody if you had to summarize it in a paragraph or less?
00:01:11:22 - 00:01:58:08
Erica Little-Haron
Say it's a neuro type difference. It's a disability. That is not necessarily, especially when you're younger. It doesn't necessarily always feel like a disability. It is often experienced by others as a social deficit, disability difficulty interacting with others. It tends to also come with various sensory issues. And to the point of you saying that it is a massive question, what's unique about autism is that it is very heterozygous, meaning that if you plot almost any other group of individuals, any trait that they have, let's say selfishness, then you're going to get like a bell curve, you're going to get that people who have the most, and you'll have something gradual.
00:01:58:12 - 00:02:24:17
Erica Little-Haron
When it comes to autistic people, it will be a valley because we are a people of extremes. So almost anything that you try to pin down about an autistic person and say this is this is the quintessential autistic presentation that you're going to see. There's almost always an exception. But generally speaking, as social deficits, which are interpreted as social deficits in a society we're in, that's a whole other can of worms.
00:02:24:20 - 00:02:28:01
Erica Little-Haron
And sensory issues are your big ones.
00:02:28:04 - 00:02:42:23
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
That's fascinating. Yeah. Do you find that? Yeah, I agree, because one of the things I was aware of when you were saying is like the experience of pain. One of the things I recently came across is autistic people had a unique experience with their own bodies and brain, because some of them are hypersensitive and others are hypersensitive.
00:02:43:00 - 00:03:04:12
Erica Little-Haron
Or both are both in the same person. Something like a tag on a shirt can actually genuinely be experienced as pain, but then you can have a broken limb and not be screaming. I fell out of a tree once when I was like six and broke three bones and didn't cry, and so nobody believed me. But meanwhile, like I cried over the texture of a washcloth I didn't like.
00:03:04:12 - 00:03:05:08
Erica Little-Haron
So yeah.
00:03:05:08 - 00:03:17:22
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
You reminded me I broke a thumb and didn't go get help either. For that, I didn't know I broke my thumb. Yeah, wasn't that big of a deal to me. But yeah, yeah, I'm very sensitive. Other things as well. For those who don't know, I'm autistic, late diagnosed autistic woman.
00:03:18:00 - 00:03:41:02
Lisa Sonni
You know, one of the thing that I frequently see on my page, we talk a lot about in the comment sections anyway, not on purpose about ADHD and autism as two separate things, and how a lot of people who are narcissistic might tell their spouse, I'm not narcissistic or I'm not abusive, I'm just neurodivergent in some capacity. And I wonder if there's, you know, some struggles with empathy.
00:03:41:02 - 00:03:59:19
Lisa Sonni
That seems to be the connection to me. It feels like an excuse. And I think to your point, you could be both. My abuser was in fact diagnosed both narcissist and ADHD, so he absolutely was both. But do you think that there's any connection to the lack of empathy that sort of makes that something that they can ride on and claim that they're not narcissistic or not abusive?
00:03:59:22 - 00:04:21:22
Erica Little-Haron
Yeah. So that's a big one for the longest time, part of the reason that I did not believe that it would never even remotely occur to me that I was autistic was because the narrative is in and the culture at large, and from the experts on autism was that we do not feel empathy and in some cases went so far as to say that we don't feel loved.
00:04:22:01 - 00:05:02:22
Erica Little-Haron
And so knowing that I felt hyper empathy, I like to call it like autistic osmosis, that a lot of autistic people, especially people raised as female, will walk into a room and suddenly feel a lot of emotions that aren't theirs. And it's not anything magical. It's that we take in more sensory data because we have more connections in our brains, but we don't necessarily sort those so well, so they kind of go into these big piles in our brains, so we will sense the vibes of the room and take those on, but not know why they're there, not know what the expected reaction is and not know how to name them.
00:05:03:03 - 00:05:23:16
Erica Little-Haron
So if everybody else in the room is cranky, we might suddenly find ourselves cranky when we were happy two seconds ago and then we make things more awkward by like going, hey, why is everybody feeling so tense right now? Who's playing you? And then people point at that and go, you're not empathetic, because if you were empathetic, you would see that there was tension in the room and you wouldn't be calling it out, making everybody upset.
00:05:23:21 - 00:05:47:14
Erica Little-Haron
But the problem wasn't that I wasn't feeling empathy. The problem was that I did not know how to respond bond to the emotion in a way that alltistics would consider acceptable. And that's the missing piece with autistic people, and we call it a double empathy problem, is that we do not respond to the empathy that we're feeling in the way that is expected in all society.
00:05:47:17 - 00:06:13:13
Erica Little-Haron
Holistic, by the way, if you're not familiar with the term, is anybody who is not autistic. And with regard to the way that we show empathy can look very narcissistic from an idealistic perspective. So we've got different kinds of empathy, right. And I'm just going to focus on two. But we have cognitive empathy, which is sort of I cognitively understand that you are, that you are in pain and I understand why.
00:06:13:15 - 00:06:32:05
Erica Little-Haron
And you might reflect back to them and say, oh, I'm sorry you're going through this. I see that this is really hard, but you are not taking those emotions on. You are not feeling the pain with the individual. And when they say, oh, I'm feeling so alone with this, you're not going well. This one time ten years ago, my grandma also died.
00:06:32:05 - 00:07:05:22
Erica Little-Haron
And what I did in that situation, what a narcissist will often do something similar. You know that they want to one up you. They want to make it about them, that they're the ones who are really suffering. Whereas the exact same behavior in an autistic person is saying, you are not alone in this, like I am down in the trenches with you, I am, I am going back to my own memories of similar suffering so that I have a framework in which to engage in emotional, also known as affective empathy, where I am perspective taking and getting down into that feeling with you.
00:07:06:02 - 00:07:36:07
Erica Little-Haron
It's very emotionally expensive. It's very exhausting. Elastics don't necessarily generally enjoy receiving autistic slash emotional slash affective empathy because it can feel invasive. It can feel as if we are centering ourselves, when in reality we're living by the Golden rule. So this is actually a thing where we don't want cognitive empathy because it feels cold. So we also don't give that back to other people.
00:07:36:12 - 00:07:58:01
Erica Little-Haron
But the difference being that those of us who are able to do high masking and who do develop a special interest in other people on psychology and trying to figure out why we feel alien and why the world works the way that it does. We go out of our way to learn how to comfort the people that we care about in a way that they receive as comforting.
00:07:58:03 - 00:08:21:05
Erica Little-Haron
But what's upsetting to me is that that's very rarely reciprocated, and that autistic people, especially children that are diagnosed early, are taught to replicate holistic ways of bonding and comforting, and that is not given back. It would be a sign like we should adapt to the needs of our loved ones, especially when they're apart. But I, I feel like that should be a two way street.
00:08:21:10 - 00:08:42:06
Erica Little-Haron
Now. A narcissist can have cognitive empathy like they can. And that's where you get into like dark, empathic territory, right? They are able to analyze you and pinpoint every little pain point. They're not feeling that with you, though. You know they are not getting into the weeds with you. And the point of it is to use it to manipulate you to get to what they want.
00:08:42:12 - 00:08:45:18
Erica Little-Haron
So you have to look at the whole picture of behavior the.
00:08:45:18 - 00:08:48:06
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Best way I heard it described as instrumental.
00:08:48:06 - 00:08:52:18
Erica Little-Haron
That's an instrumental down. But I was like, I'm not sure. Oh yeah, you're describing.
00:08:52:20 - 00:09:05:16
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah, you're describing an instrumental, which is you sense it. They're very good of mind mapping. And because they're so highly skilled at it, they're able to then use that in a weaponized way against the person that they're picking up, that they're feelings.
00:09:05:18 - 00:09:08:02
Erica Little-Haron
Because that's how they're getting to this. The narcissistic.
00:09:08:07 - 00:09:35:01
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah, exactly. Whereas autistic people aren't that sophisticated. Yeah. Frankly, one of the other things that I've noticed, and it's interesting because it's one of the ways I usually clock somebody who's narcissistic is that they're constricted, affect their emotion. Their face does not convey a whole range of emotional nuances that they tend to be kind of we almost call it in the psychiatric realm, a blunt affect, or it's kind of a given on their face is a blank screen.
00:09:35:01 - 00:09:53:06
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
They're not revealing a whole lot of what they're feeling, and that can come across to other people as cold or not connecting. Whereas and I think that narcissists are also very good at that too, because and they're doing it because they're actually hiding who they are, hiding what they're feeling. What's your thoughts about that? Have you kind of noticed that as well?
00:09:53:06 - 00:10:22:22
Erica Little-Haron
And so in my area of expertise is mostly autism, I would say that my expertise is autism and my hyperfocus was narcissism ism. So in my experience, narcissists and high masking autistics are both capable of masking and of emoting. If it's going to get them. What they want. Whereas like autistics are usually doing it like primarily at a survival, having a shallow affect is a common trait in autism.
00:10:22:22 - 00:10:49:01
Erica Little-Haron
And when we are out masking, we realize that we have to over project our emotions for our facial expressions to be read correctly. And because studies have shown that allistics respond to just autistic faces alone, not even counting our actual behaviors within minutes of being around an autistic person, many allistics report having an uncanny valley reaction.
00:10:49:03 - 00:11:10:05
Erica Little-Haron
It is not human. Worse yet, for a lot of people who experience the uncanny valley feeling, the follow up feeling is kill it. So many times we find it like people are instantly aggressive and not only instantly aggressive, but extremely distrustful, and they don't know why they feel that way. They're not looking at your face and saying there's something wrong with their face.
00:11:10:05 - 00:11:45:14
Erica Little-Haron
They're not looking at you going, you're autistic, you know. They just know that something feels wrong. They were told to trust their guts, and now they're looking to reverse engineer a reason for why they feel that way. And so they're going to be like watching everything very carefully. And because we are so accustomed to being treated with that level of suspicion, we do a lot of things to try to gain the trust of others and to deserve, more importantly, the trust of others, including trying to learn how to project facial expressions that look like theirs.
00:11:45:16 - 00:12:10:10
Erica Little-Haron
But it never quite lands. It never quite looks just right, and something is still niggling in the back of their heads that this doesn't feel entirely natural, feels a little bit put on, and that correlates with the same kind of threat response that cherry attuned, attentive people experience when they're around a narcissist. So you're experiencing a threat response in both cases, and it's not your fault.
00:12:10:12 - 00:12:34:07
Erica Little-Haron
It's just the monkey brain part of you. But it is important to like, unpack that, step back and go, okay, I need additional evidence beyond that initial feeling because autistic people actually are more likely to have less muscle tone in our faces and to actually have less range of motion in our faces, especially like the upper face. And so that can give off wrong vibes.
00:12:34:10 - 00:12:59:00
Erica Little-Haron
Now, that will not be the case when you encounter other autistic people or other people who are ADHD. For reasons unknown, ADHD people and autistic people tend to kind of bad and we tend to intermarry. I myself am a product of that. I'm on ADHD or so I'm autistic and ADHD, which is part of the reason that I'm very outgoing and we are like the bridge builders of the autistic community.
00:12:59:00 - 00:13:17:10
Erica Little-Haron
We're the ones that like we, we take the people out of the house that are at home with their cats and wish they could have friends, but are afraid to and we like, shove them into a room with another autistic and like, yeah, or we translate for our autistic loved ones to the world to help them understand, like what's going back and forth between her.
00:13:17:12 - 00:13:22:13
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
And laughing because I stepped out of my house, this where I was like, oh, so this is a temperature outside and been out for a few days.
00:13:22:17 - 00:13:34:21
Erica Little-Haron
I literally I posted a picture of me touching grass just because I was like, I'm tired of hearing this and I'm tired of you guys being right about it. It's so I get so excited that I think I get a little on top of it.
00:13:34:21 - 00:13:38:13
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
No, no, you're doing great. No, I love it, you know? So, so.
00:13:38:13 - 00:13:59:23
Lisa Sonni
Let me ask you though, in my comment section, what I often see is my abuser tells me that he is not abusive, he is autistic. My abuser tells me that he is not abusive. He has ADHD, he's just neurodivergent. How can people tell the difference? Because I know there can be coexisting and I know there's a little bit of overlap here and there, but I think that fundamentally like the attention is so different, the motivation.
00:14:00:01 - 00:14:20:01
Erica Little-Haron
The intention is so different. People tell, okay, so one would be grandiosity that autistic people will admit when we're good at something. But we are equally capable of being humble. I might say I'm really good at make it, and that might sound like grandiosity to some people. That might sound like just braggadocio, and it might seem very similar to narcissism.
00:14:20:01 - 00:14:39:05
Erica Little-Haron
But in the next sentence you might hear me, you know, also admit that I don't know my way around a computer and not devalue the skill of making my way around a computer, but on the fact that I'm not good at everything. And that's okay. And then also, I don't need to be the center of attention that I might be extremely outgoing and loud.
00:14:39:06 - 00:15:09:23
Erica Little-Haron
ADHD errors tend to fit that description and tend to be gregarious and outgoing. However, we don't have to be the center of attention, so that would be one of the things. And if an autistic person does not also have that ADHD, that sort of like softens out some of the less social aspects of autism, then it's much more apparent because just like pure autistics tend to be less social overall, which gives less opportunity for grandiosity.
00:15:09:23 - 00:15:42:22
Erica Little-Haron
Honestly, another would be envy. While we are fully capable of envy, it rarely has anything to do with hierarchy. So we might like someone's Gucci bag, but it's not going to be because we want more status. Hierarchy is not really a thing for us, even if we are cognizant of it. Like some other persistent drive for autonomy, also known as pathological demand avoidance, highly attuned to hierarchy and aware of power dynamics because they scare us, even if we are highly aware of it, we want to burn it down.
00:15:43:01 - 00:16:12:06
Erica Little-Haron
So it's either we don't know about it, we know about it, and we don't care about it, or we know about it and we want to destroy it, but we're never trying to claw our way to the top to hurt somebody unless we are also narcissistic. So that would be one way. Egocentricity. Yeah. So this can look similar, where we will have sensory overload sometimes and have a hard time taking in other people's experiences, and in that way kind of like get wrapped up in our own heads.
00:16:12:10 - 00:16:38:15
Erica Little-Haron
But we are also capable of giving focused attention and care to somebody else as opposed to, in my experience, narcissist that does not set feelings of shame of and and inadequacy. It's probably doesn't need elaboration. I mean, society tells autistics everyday that we are inadequate. And while shame can happen in in narcissists, I think we both know that that presents very differently.
00:16:38:20 - 00:17:01:04
Erica Little-Haron
You know that my shame will present as genuine remorse and regret, and that I am willing to listen, empathize, apologize, and problem solve. I'm willing to say, I did this thing. I should have known better because of this information. It affected you in this way. I'm very sorry. Here's the steps I'm going to take to make sure it doesn't happen again.
00:17:01:08 - 00:17:25:04
Erica Little-Haron
And here's some ideas that I have to repair. The harm that I caused. Do you also have some things? You know, obviously that might take a lot longer than that, but also like sitting and listening to the pain that I caused, the narcissist will never do that. They will never, never sincerely do that. There will always be some way in which it's always going to be like, oh, I'm sorry you feel that way, or whatever.
00:17:25:04 - 00:18:00:18
Erica Little-Haron
Impulsivity. Both are capable of impulsivity if there is ADHD with it. But if the ADHD piece is not, there, autistics are not impulsive, so they don't share that with narcissists. Dysregulated rage. It's important to to understand the difference. If an autistic person is experiencing a meltdown, which can be violent if they are a level one autistic somebody like me, and they are at this point in their life and they are causing harm to other people during their meltdowns, and they are not taking steps to like.
00:18:00:18 - 00:18:20:19
Erica Little-Haron
For me personally, I have figured out what are my tools and I have put in my emergency systems of how do I like, get away from everybody and if I can't get away from anybody, what things can I do to calm my body? And also, what can I do to make repairs ahead of time? Hey mom, I was feeling really dysregulated.
00:18:20:23 - 00:18:40:05
Erica Little-Haron
I might cry a lot. It is in no way your fault. It's best not to talk to mom. My mom was a little overwhelmed. But it's not your fault. And big feelings are safe that people who care about the people who are around them when they get close to that stage, are taking the time to try to make sure that they're not harming other people.
00:18:40:05 - 00:18:58:21
Erica Little-Haron
They're not using it as an excuse to hurt other people. The sense of victimhood, we are actually victimized. So that can be you get along with vulnerable narcissists. The woe is me, the world is after me, you know, and every time that something goes right, it's because they did it. And everything that goes something wrong is because everybody else did it to them.
00:18:58:23 - 00:19:23:09
Erica Little-Haron
Whereas an autistic person will spend time, ask themselves, in what way did I attack the situation? They'll look at like, okay, the criticism that I'm getting, what's the source coming here? As if from somebody who's general moral framework I respect, they'll go through a roster to try to figure out, do I need to actually internalize the criticism that I'm receiving, or is this on them?
00:19:23:12 - 00:19:46:13
Erica Little-Haron
A narcissist isn't going to do it, that it's always like, woe is me, I don't deserve this alexithymia. Both can seem so. Narcissists can have trouble identifying their own emotions, but a lot of that is self imposed defense, right? They have locked away their emotions because then any kind of negative emotion feels like a weakness and vulnerability, and they sneer at that.
00:19:46:17 - 00:20:07:22
Erica Little-Haron
Whereas autistic people will have a hard time identifying emotions because ours just look different and they don't sit. A lot of the descriptions that all the sticks handed to us, I mean, least of all like our facial expressions, like we could be in agonizing pain and be shallow at it and you might not see anything or could even be smiling.
00:20:08:02 - 00:20:27:17
Erica Little-Haron
So it's very in tarot, perception is a problem of like knowing what's happening in my body, that I might have a hard time knowing that I need to urinate, that I have to eat, that I am sad that I might be in the middle of a grocery store. I find myself crying out of nowhere and I don't know what I'm even sad about.
00:20:27:19 - 00:20:56:03
Erica Little-Haron
I thought I was fine until two seconds ago, but I've disassociated from the overwhelm of being autistic and taking in too much sensory data. And so eventually you just kind of like, leave your body and in doing so, you leave the access and the ability to identify those emotions. But it's a very different mechanism by which we have a hard time identifying emotions, as opposed to narcissists who don't really want to know what's in there besides the fabulousness.
00:20:56:06 - 00:21:18:18
Erica Little-Haron
You know, they want to know how great they are, but that's about it. I would say that's suspicion. And paranoia is a big thing. When we are suspicious or paranoid, start writing down how often we're right. That scoreboard is going to it's going to fill up pretty quick. We end up in the Cassandra syndrome a lot, where we will predict things and people will tell us, no, that's not the case.
00:21:19:00 - 00:21:43:20
Erica Little-Haron
And then over and over and over and over were proven correct. And it's not because we're smarter. It's because we are excellent at pattern recognition. We have more connections in our brain. Doesn't mean and I'm not a anti supremacist, I don't think that we're inherently like better or the next stage in any of that trash. But because of those additional connections, it enables us to draw correlations that others don't see.
00:21:43:20 - 00:22:18:04
Erica Little-Haron
There's a spider web fractal bottom up thinking capacity that we have, so we might seem paranoid because we will see things that other people don't, and sometimes we're not even aware of it on a conscious level. We just are registering something in the background and going something seems awry there. If, however, you are finding that this person is suspicious and paranoid and it seems like they're projecting their own worldview on everybody else, i.e. everybody's out to get me, everybody's out to get what they want out of everybody else.
00:22:18:04 - 00:22:46:02
Erica Little-Haron
Everybody wants to get one up on me. But you're seeing in their everyday behavior that that's what they do to everybody else. That is absolutely not the case. And then they will accuse somebody of trying to take advantage of them when that's not the case. Autistics are famously gullible and it's not always that we're just gullible. Sometimes it's just that we want to give the benefit of the doubt that we aren't given.
00:22:46:03 - 00:23:06:20
Erica Little-Haron
So even if we sense that there's something wrong that the amount of pain that we've experienced from being treated with such suspicion causes us to go out of our way, to not make other people feel like that, which is how we keep ending up with narcissists in our lives who can take advantage of us because we would always rather give people the benefit of the doubt.
00:23:06:20 - 00:23:11:19
Erica Little-Haron
Because again, the golden rule is very important to us. We give what we want to receive.
00:23:11:22 - 00:23:28:14
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
And this is going to be the last question before we kind of move to the podcast extra. But do you think that the fact that narcissists are now trying to jump onto the bandwagon of autism as an explanation for their bad behavior, is that putting our autistic people at greater risk? Oh God yes. Understanding?
00:23:28:16 - 00:23:55:09
Erica Little-Haron
Yes. Oh God yes yes yes yes. Sweet Jesus. Yeah. And at the same time, I want to tie this back in with the alright pipeline and we can see it in tech autocracy stuff that's going on in politics right now. And a lot of especially our young men, that we have a disproportionate number of autistic men who have proficiencies and in highly skilled areas that like, like tech.
00:23:55:12 - 00:24:21:01
Erica Little-Haron
And for that and a lot of other reasons, the alt right is constantly actively recruiting Armin because they make very devoted soldiers, because the autistic sense of justice, which can be twisted in exactly the wrong direction and makes us sound like angels and we are not our sense of justice can be women. Oh me, I don't. That can be your sense of justice.
00:24:21:01 - 00:24:39:10
Erica Little-Haron
Like your ears. The sense of justice can be wrong. And narcissists conflating themselves with us and mixing themselves with us. But at the same time, I really do want to emphasize the fact that that autistics can absolutely be narcissists. Without a doubt.
00:24:39:10 - 00:24:50:19
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Yeah, well, thank you for this. This has been really, really wonderful. How can people find you? And I'm then I'm going to talk about what the podcast is going to be in a second. But where can people go to find more about your content and what you're talking about?
00:24:50:22 - 00:25:18:11
Erica Little-Haron
Sure, I am on Instagram, but I'm mostly on TikTok. I am @BasicallyLindaBelcher. I am going to be moving over to YouTube, probably if TikTok goes down to some degree. And that's all I can say. Model my community. Yeah, @BasicallyLindaBelcher, I'm trying to keep it the same everywhere. And even if I don't continue to make content after TikTok goes down, then I look forward to just meeting more of my community, many people up on stage.
00:25:18:16 - 00:25:39:09
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
I appreciate that. So here's the podcast extra topic. It's that autistic people are particularly very vulnerable to narcissists, and I'd love to talk about why autism makes us very gullible or susceptible to narcissistic abuse. So let's hop over there and talk about that different angle. So thank you so much Erica. This is timely and I could talk forever.
00:25:39:09 - 00:25:40:13
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
I really appreciate this a lot.
00:25:40:18 - 00:25:46:16
Erica Little-Haron
Thank you. Thanks for the I'm so excited to get to info dump about this and not have it be an inconvenience.
00:25:46:16 - 00:26:15:17
Dr. Kerry McAvoy
Honestly appreciate that. Again the special interests do. Well, that's a wrap for this week's episode. Are you following me on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube? You can find me at Kerry McAvoy PhD. Or you can learn about me and more about my resources, such as the Toxic Free Relationship Club at KerryMcAvoyPhD.com. If you found this episode helpful, please do me a favor and leave me a five star review and I'll see you back here next week.
