Have Bad Taste in Partners? The Red Flags We Often Miss

Why do we pick bad partners? Is purely because of deception or are we missing early warning signs of a toxicity?

This week, author and clinician, Mary Crocker Cook joins us to discuss the problems of early socialization and different expectation in the dysfunctional relationship.

Looking for the Podcast Extra Interview with Mary Crocker Cook?

🔹 Are you wondering how to exit a toxic relationship safely? Mary shares some powerful no-nonsense advice on how to prepare to leave.  Subscribe to our Podcast Exclusive newsletter to hear the extended interview.

Get immediate access to the interview with Mary Crocker Cook along with expert tools and support to help you reclaim your peace.

👉 Join today: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

To Learn More About Mary Crocker Cook: Website: https://www.marycrockercookbooks.com/bio

Book: Bad Taste. Self-Care and Financial planning when You Have Bad Taste In Men: https://amzn.to/3RYq9jl

 ****************************************

Stay in Touch Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Battling a Narcissist in Court: A Live Q&A with Judge Michele Locke

📅 June 10th at 6:30 p.m. CT | ⏰ 90 minutes | 💬 Survivor-Focused Guidance

Not a member yet? Upgrade now to get access to exclusive events like this!

👉 Learn more here: kerrymcavoyphd.com/club

Transcript

00:00:04:18 - 00:00:24:01

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Do you have a track record of picking toxic people as partners? Well, to talk about that today, Mary Crocker Cook joins me. She's the author of a new book called Bad Taste Self-care and Financial Planning When You Have Bad Taste in Men.

00:00:24:03 - 00:00:42:06

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

I'm so excited today to be joined by Mary Crocker Cook, who's got a new book out called Bad Taste. I really like that title a lot, and I'm excited to talk to you about what happens in relationships, particularly what signs that women miss when meeting somebody that maybe is not going to be the most healthy or functional person.

00:00:42:08 - 00:00:47:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

why don't you first start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and how you got interested in this topic.

00:00:47:12 - 00:01:11:11

Mary Crocker Cook

Well, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and a licensed addiction counselor. And I've always worked, with both areas. And, one of things people have in common and, I certainly have my own experience with is, missing the red flags. Right. And so what brings people into treatment most of the time, whether it's general counseling or even ultimately addiction counseling is, relational issues.

00:01:11:12 - 00:01:39:12

Mary Crocker Cook

They bring difficulties with our loved ones, whether it's family members, significant others, and our difficulty managing our emotional reactivity in those situations. And so for addiction, the way we're going to manage our emotional reactivity is vodka. Otherwise we act out, we cut ourselves off. We do all kinds of things. I had a friend of mine asking me about this, and I was talking about, the latest in my particular, bad taste, which tends to be feral men, meaning they disappear.

00:01:39:16 - 00:01:56:09

Mary Crocker Cook

And so talking about that, and she said, why don't you just write about that? I thought, you know, why not? because the other piece, various women actually don't want to leave a lot of the books are about how to leave. And a lot of times women aren't ready to do that. And at the same time, they're not in really good situations.

00:01:56:14 - 00:02:14:03

Mary Crocker Cook

And so what I wanted to speak to were women who, are in hard situations, they're in process, they're not sure what you're going to do or, they're leaving, but they're stepping in it again. And let's figure out where these patterns are coming from. So that's what sort of prompted me to go ahead and do this.

00:02:14:04 - 00:02:33:15

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

This is such a complex problem. I see it from so many different angles, and you may be aware that I've really immersed myself in narcissistic abuse specifically and one of the dynamics they become very aware of, especially after being a survivor, but myself is that there's a level of duplicity that happens not all toxic relationships are like that.

00:02:33:15 - 00:02:55:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

That's a specific presentation. So if you pull the lens back and kind of look at the whole area and let's focus mostly on women. With men we can maybe talk about men with women, but with women with men. What do you think happens with us when it comes to the average dysfunctional relationship? Why do we struggle seeing the signs that this is not the best connection?

00:02:55:12 - 00:03:24:13

Mary Crocker Cook

you're right, that is complex. A lot of it goes back to our early experience of, early attachment, meaning our ability to form and trust relationships with others. And some of us, because of our own early life experience, have challenges around how to trust connection, how to maintain connection with others. And I have a tendency to have developed kind of roadmaps for the expectations we have in relationships of people's availability, people's responses.

00:03:24:19 - 00:03:54:06

Mary Crocker Cook

And this is why these patterns can be so old. I say the general reason we wind up in these situations is we don't pay attention to what we actually see and what we actually feel. And a lot of our information is nonverbal, so it's easier to exclude. It's easier for me to not notice my physical reactivity, the sensations in my body when I'm connecting with somebody, not noticing the fight or flight system, this getting triggered,

00:03:54:10 - 00:04:12:18

Mary Crocker Cook

I find all kinds of ways to not pay attention to my body. and I also have a tendency, we, a lot of us, to hear what we want to hear. So we don't actually listen to people when they say things. We don't listen to the fact that they probably aren't telling us the truth. We just don't believe them.

00:04:12:19 - 00:04:33:04

Mary Crocker Cook

Like, that can't be true. He couldn't really mean that. Oh, he just has poor self-esteem. we don't tell people of his value sometimes when we need to. And then, don't look for other things when we should. But I think a lot of it gets set up in terms of our early patterning and our early expectations and also our own availability.

00:04:33:08 - 00:04:53:05

Mary Crocker Cook

Right. I may be in denial about just how much I want to be in a relationship, how much I want somebody to know me. Exactly how much vulnerability do I want to have, There's a reason. Women pick three alcoholic husbands in a row, There's a reason we pick people. And it's funny, change outfits. So one relationship is a workaholic.

00:04:53:05 - 00:05:00:08

Mary Crocker Cook

The next one's an alcoholic. The next one, travels three weeks. A month. and so we'll say they're all different, but they're not. They're not different.

00:05:00:12 - 00:05:18:19

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

You packed a whole lot in there. One is that the socialization of women? I know for myself, I was socialized to override my natural instincts, override what even felt safe in my body, and thinking of the times that, you know, give Antia hug or give uncle so-and-so a hug, and you're thinking, no, no, I've been around this person before.

00:05:18:19 - 00:05:41:12

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

This is bad. And also this is another thing that I realized when I got out of that, really, the relationship is that I was taught to prioritize the connection the us, not the me, and thinking that I would find my safety in the US of us, not in myself. And so I kept trying to save the relationship as a way to save myself, thinking that they're one and the same.

00:05:41:14 - 00:05:59:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

And then you also made the really powerful point of maybe we're selves are not all that interested in intimacy. So we find people who are distant as a way to preserve the distance that we need. But then we get to blame the relationship for our inability to connect. So there's a whole lot in there. I want to circle back, though, to the first one, the socialization of women.

00:05:59:11 - 00:06:20:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

I think women don't realize maybe, we're getting better. Maybe, Gen Z and millennials are doing better than this, but I know that my generation or those around me that we really were taught that men were socialized different, that men see the world differently. So let's talk about that. How do you see men and women viewing relationships as you've worked with people?

00:06:20:17 - 00:06:39:05

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Because one of the things I've noticed is that my sons, for example, don't necessarily worry about the healthiness of the connection as much as I do that I really, if I'm not careful, I'm carrying a lot of the emotional burden of the relationship, whether it's with my kids or whether it's with my partner. But I tend to own too much.

00:06:39:05 - 00:06:43:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

And don't know if that's fair to say, but I wonder if that's a common reason. Stereotype.

00:06:43:14 - 00:07:07:13

Mary Crocker Cook

No, no, I think you're you're touching on what I was going to say, I think, which is the idea that we have different expectations of our role and what's expected of us and, where our energies should be put. And I do think that both men and women often see the woman as sort of the connector piece. Right? The burden is on her not only just with the two of us, but in the outside world.

00:07:07:14 - 00:07:15:20

Mary Crocker Cook

This idea that she's organizing our world. So literally, you say, what are we doing this weekend? What do we have going on?

00:07:16:00 - 00:07:28:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

The one that was the most poignant to me was with my first marriage that ended that he passed away. if there wasn't birthday cards or Christmas cards sent out to his family and relatives, it was a burden on me. It was my fault. Not his

00:07:28:09 - 00:07:29:05

Mary Crocker Cook

fault. Oh yeah.

00:07:29:05 - 00:07:35:01

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

But yeah. Why was I assumed that I would know when their birthday was or when the important holidays are to that family

00:07:35:01 - 00:07:54:23

Mary Crocker Cook

know so well it wasn't just handed expected that of you. Oh I know exactly what it's for because again it's sort of like this assertiveness is generational right. But this this idea that yeah we need to carry the connectors forward okay. So yeah I'm first to memory birthdays. And the fact that somebody has soccer on Saturday and in fact you know.

00:07:54:23 - 00:08:17:02

Mary Crocker Cook

Yeah, absolutely. Now what I do see generationally different because I've been doing this, since So I've seen a lot of development generationally in the way men participate with their children, which is interesting. When I first started, men would still refer to themselves as babysitting their own children. They say, oh, I have to babysit. The kids think those are your children anyway,

00:08:17:07 - 00:08:43:03

Mary Crocker Cook

so I don't hear that anymore. I definitely see men feeling more, participation and ownership of what's going on with the kids, which has been a nice thing to see. The women still have a very high expectation of him participating in the household in ways that are not happening still. So it's interesting. I think they're translating more availability with the kids as availability to the household in general.

00:08:43:05 - 00:09:03:20

Mary Crocker Cook

And I don't think that's necessarily a crossover. And so the resentment around, well, you know, you'll take Billy to whatever, but you won't help me with the laundry. It's like but I think part of it is still mindset in terms of what's actually expected of me here. So the fact that I take Billy to parties is such an upgrade over my own dad.

00:09:04:01 - 00:09:07:02

Mary Crocker Cook

What the hell is your problem, lady? You know, to me that's

00:09:07:04 - 00:09:23:21

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

that is fascinating. I've noticed that two men say, well, I hope and or I'm involved and like. And I've heard women say, yeah, but not enough. And that the women are still doing probably a second shift that men are not, or at least more and more that men are doing. And I don't think there's an awareness of it but that's a good point, that maybe the language is wrong.

00:09:23:21 - 00:09:44:04

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Maybe we're talking about two different things and there's a miscommunication that's happening. Do you think I mean, I there's been very fascinating dark figures that have crossed the social media that's taught very bad. messages and taught bad things. what impact has that had? I'm thinking of the Andrew Tates and the Neil Strauss even with the game, how do you think that's

00:09:44:08 - 00:09:47:20

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

is it change things? Is it not change? Think. What's your thoughts on that? Well,

00:09:47:20 - 00:10:06:12

Mary Crocker Cook

okay, so I was talking to a guy a couple weeks ago, and he has explained to me how he listens to one of these guys podcast guys. Right. And he's saying, well, he's taking advice from them on what I would call a game playing You know, making sure that he doesn't go first, that he doesn't look like a that, you know, he can't get, you know, I mean, like, this kind of advice,

00:10:06:12 - 00:10:25:22

Mary Crocker Cook

he's getting over making sure that, he's not walked all over. So again, the languaging being if you don't protect yourself. Women will disrespect you. They'll treat you like crap. Right? So somehow men need to like, show that they're man. Right? Yes. That's what we want. We want that. Women want that.

00:10:26:01 - 00:10:44:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Well, yeah. There's this sort of this alpha versus a beta debate out there, That's even like, is that even a real thing? I mean, if it is actually found in the world, in the, animal kingdom, I'm not even convinced. I think there's like differing research that suggests that maybe it's not. But here's the other problem I have that I thought it's really interesting that dialog

00:10:44:09 - 00:10:59:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

and that is where is the power really reside? women would say that the power resides with men for the most part, because we're at risk when we're with them. I mean, literally, I mean, think there's a famous quote I'm trying to remember who said it is, woman's greatest fear is that the guy is going to harm her,

00:10:59:11 - 00:11:24:18

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

like, you know, physically devastate her. And the man's greatest fear is that he's going to be ridiculed. I'm not quoting it exactly because I'm trying to be careful with my language here, but it's a very different perspective. but what I've heard recently is that there's a lot of people, maybe more in the incel circle or red pill circle that say that women hold the power when it comes to sexual access, whereas women would say no, men hold the power because they are physically dominant.

00:11:24:21 - 00:11:29:22

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Do you see that kind of tension playing out in women's bad taste in men?

00:11:30:00 - 00:11:50:05

Mary Crocker Cook

Well, you know, it's interesting, It is true that men do see and always have women as having a lot of power, because we do. And I'll say, let's put it this way. We have a lot of power with very nice men. Very nice men, actually, lose sleep, have concentration, interruption. If a woman they love is not happy with them, it's genuinely disturbing.

00:11:50:09 - 00:12:07:00

Mary Crocker Cook

They don't like it, okay? And they do, for the most part. See, women is the hinge for that because they don't want to be pushy. They don't want to be aggressive. And so they either feel like the agreement is they have to initiate. But she's always say yes or no. So she's

00:12:07:00 - 00:12:10:01

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

always the gatekeeper. But he has to take the risk. Yeah,

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:29:08

Mary Crocker Cook

exactly. And the women want that. They don't want to take the risk. And they'll say that I think he should initiate more this. It's so interesting. And what men will say is I wish she would initiate because then I have to do the initiation and I get to be rejected. Why can't she initiate when she wants it? I mean, it's a very challenging topic and I see this across age groups.

00:12:29:14 - 00:12:53:05

Mary Crocker Cook

So yeah. Yes. Men are not insane to think that women do have a certain amount of emotional control in the relationship. They do. And it's largely because men grant it to us. When you talk about bad days, what you will see is men who do not grant it at all. And in that case, they actually don't share power. See, what happens is this idea that, there's no such thing as shared power.

00:12:53:09 - 00:13:13:17

Mary Crocker Cook

So that's what happens in all dysfunctional relationships. Only one person gets to have it. It's not an exchange. So, for example, if the woman is okay, she is deciding whether or not we get to have sex. There is an onus on him because he also has power in the relationship to treat her in a particular way, where the connection is possible.

00:13:13:21 - 00:13:28:19

Mary Crocker Cook

Right. So really, both people are responsible for what happens in that relationship, in a dysfunction relationship, that's not true. One person has all the power, One person makes all the decisions and the other person, needs to manage with that somehow.

00:13:28:20 - 00:13:33:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Give me an example of what that looks like, as opposed to the early example that you gave.

00:13:33:09 - 00:13:49:06

Mary Crocker Cook

I want to have sex, and you owe it to me to give it to me. And so I'm going to, pout and I'm going to yell at you, and I'm going to make your life a living hell, by being annoying and, not even physically threatening. Just, you know, around you until you finally give up and have sex with me.

00:13:49:09 - 00:13:50:22

Mary Crocker Cook

Because I get to have sex. Yeah,

00:13:50:22 - 00:13:57:18

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

yeah. Mike, how do you feel about it? I get to say no, we're not going to ever. But, yeah, he was the gatekeeper. I was not the gatekeeper.

00:13:57:19 - 00:14:15:16

Mary Crocker Cook

Exactly. One person is. Yeah. So there's no exchange of power in that situation. Right. She can't negotiate. She can't say you know what should happen is an exchange okay, maybe I don't want to have sex tonight because I've had a horrible day and I have two two year olds. And all I want to do is sleep. Okay. Can we negotiate?

00:14:15:17 - 00:14:21:07

Mary Crocker Cook

What about Thursday? And we negotiate. But in dysfunctional relationships, it's all or nothing.

00:14:21:09 - 00:14:45:03

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

I started even thinking about how coercive control gets manifested in these dysfunctional relationships, which it moves outside of just the bedroom, but it's pervasive. You know, I was thinking about a typical example of, our schedule would be he knew I needed a lot of sleep, but he would watch TV in the bedroom. After telling me in the first part of the relationship, we'd never have a TV in the bedroom. because of moving to a new location that happened to have one.

00:14:45:08 - 00:15:01:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Now he's watching it till 3 or 4 a.m. in the morning when I'm trying to sleep, and then he sets the alarm hours earlier than it needs to be. Like roughly 6 a.m. in the morning. He'd set it and then proceed to get up and talk to me and get going for the day, even though our first appointment might not be till 9 a.m..

00:15:01:16 - 00:15:16:10

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

So even though it felt like we were supposedly sharing the schedule, we were running a business together, negotiating all the ins and outs of it was clear that the person who actually was in control was he. He was controlling the time. He was controlling the amount of sleep I was getting. yeah.

00:15:16:12 - 00:15:34:09

Mary Crocker Cook

And what he would say is, well, if I don't go to bed with her, she gets all mad. Okay. So I have to go to bed on time and I can't sleep. So what am I supposed to do. It's hard you know at the basis of most good relationships, ships of any kind is a belief in each other's positive intent.

00:15:34:11 - 00:15:52:14

Mary Crocker Cook

And that, I truly trust that you have my interests at heart. So if it actually did upset me, you would work with me, that level of trust has to happen. Right? this is why I say, in good relationships. The fact that the partner would say, I can't sleep, I'm tired all the time. The other person would say, well, honey, that's not reasonable.

00:15:52:18 - 00:16:00:06

Mary Crocker Cook

We need to find a solution because I care about you and I don't want you to always be tired. That's how that's going to go. Okay?

00:16:00:07 - 00:16:15:09

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Right. And I think circling it back into bad taste is that women miss that the partner that they have isn't invested, that this is basically one person trying to hold up the emotional boat of the whole relationship. There's not two people in the boat. There's not one person.

00:16:15:10 - 00:16:28:01

Mary Crocker Cook

That's right, One person is doing their best to make it work right. And a lot of flexibility around doing that. And in the book I list different types of people, you know, men that don't work for men that are married or, you

00:16:28:01 - 00:16:29:03

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

know, men that

00:16:29:03 - 00:16:50:02

Mary Crocker Cook

are loaded or, you know, I mean, there's all kinds of versions of this, okay. But the bottom line is unavailable. Okay. I'm not available to participate with you in an equal way. I'm not available to participate with you in any kind of shared experience here. And I might give lip service or, you know, but part of this also, Carrie goes back to this idea of my ability.

00:16:50:05 - 00:16:57:03

Mary Crocker Cook

What do I expect from a relationship? Right. So it is not a coincidence that I pick Farrell men. Gary. Okay.

00:16:57:07 - 00:17:00:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

All right. So yeah, it was going to follow up and saying sure. You're saying

00:17:00:13 - 00:17:17:07

Mary Crocker Cook

so what I had to work with is What's up with that? I'm the common denominator. So I can, give you all time, you know, well this happened that happened. But the bottom line is, I'm over 60 at this point. I'm 61 ain't down. And it's not my mama either. It's me. What am I

00:17:17:07 - 00:17:34:12

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

doing? I know for the abuse victim who says, but I thought I met a really nice person and they shifted on me. And is that my fault? I don't hear that you're saying no, it's not necessarily their fault. But maybe at that point it becomes what keeps you And I know this again, this is a highly complicated issue.

00:17:34:13 - 00:17:51:16

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

What keeps this is the mixed messages that this, very dysfunctional person sending of I'm in. No I'm not in, I'm in, I'm not in. And I know that I've shared my audience knows what I've shared is that he would read books with me. He'll underline them, discuss them, go to therapy, say he'd never worked harder to save the relationship.

00:17:51:16 - 00:18:07:11

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

And it was only later I discovered he was still. trying to hook up with people. So it he was not actually in the relationship. And I have to admit that my gut sensed there was something off I even confront of it at one point and said, it's like we're playing the hokey pokey game. But when it comes to putting your whole self in, you never do.

00:18:07:16 - 00:18:26:21

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

I never feel this complete investment in us or in me. Instead, I get all this nonsense about, well, I'm trying really hard. You just have to accept me the way that I am But I think that. what goes wrong with women then? That when we get that kind of a message like, you have to accept me the way that I end, that we don't say yes, but that's not enough.

00:18:26:21 - 00:18:28:10

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

I'm not okay with it. I'm out.

00:18:28:12 - 00:18:49:08

Mary Crocker Cook

You can't define yourself by one relationship. I mean, okay, yeah. We've all picked people that. Good lord. Yeah. You look back on it like, what the hell was I that was violent or that was scary, or that was what in the world? Okay, so the issue isn't blame. It's about the power in seeing if I am in any way contributing to this patterning.

00:18:49:12 - 00:18:56:13

Mary Crocker Cook

I can change that, can I? That's powerful. so it's not about blaming. It's about finding a ladder out. All right.

00:18:56:13 - 00:18:57:05

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Yeah. So. Yeah.

00:18:57:05 - 00:19:18:10

Mary Crocker Cook

So why why do we stay? We stay because we love them and we want to believe them. That's why. And we have probably decades of experience overriding our gut instinct. We do. We have lots of experience where yes, our body says oh and we go, oh, shut up, it's fine or what we say is okay. He probably really is doing his best.

00:19:18:10 - 00:19:20:18

Mary Crocker Cook

I need to stop being so demanding. Right.

00:19:20:18 - 00:19:33:22

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Which is really a painful conclusion because that's accepting that we're not worth more, that it's okay to live with somebody who maybe is best is only 5% of what we really, actually need to be a healthy, functional person, right?

00:19:34:01 - 00:19:51:23

Mary Crocker Cook

Who are? That's the best men can do, because sometimes we have a very low bar about men, right? It's like you talk to women about, you know, getting the upgrade like a car, you know, I mean, they talk about some of these traits and they're actually standard, like on a car, like coming home every night, being being, kind, you know, helpful.

00:19:51:23 - 00:19:54:18

Mary Crocker Cook

I mean, things that are like, this is kind of standard operating, all right.

00:19:54:20 - 00:19:56:06

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

And they're like, like our iPhones.

00:19:56:07 - 00:20:16:04

Mary Crocker Cook

More reliable. I won the lotto. Like, whoa whoa whoa whoa. The fact that he doesn't hit you. Yeah. That's how that's supposed to be. Girlfriend. Okay, so what we'll do is we'll hyper focus on the upgrade and that's it. We're like okay, yay. All right. so I think sometimes it's our self-esteem. But sometimes it's our belief about men.

00:20:16:10 - 00:20:35:17

Mary Crocker Cook

We just don't have very high opinion of men. We tend to think they're they're just kind of whiny and we don't think much of them. And like, we treat them like I see women treat their men like, children all the time. They'll even say, I've got a fourth child with the house. Oh, you really demeaning shit about their men. And, you know, you go back in their history, you know, like, oh, yeah, I see where that came from.

00:20:35:20 - 00:20:44:08

Mary Crocker Cook

Yeah. Not, you know, not a lot of really good, male role models and pretty low expectations of men. And, which isn't good for the men either.

00:20:44:08 - 00:21:00:18

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

No, no, but I remember that my late husband and he came from a very traditional home. He'd say, I deserve to have it. My dad did. I'm thinking, yeah, but your dad was never home, you know. And was it? And you, even yourself said he was, you know, much as you loved him, he wasn’t a great father. So we're using that is the role model.

00:21:00:19 - 00:21:18:03

Mary Crocker Cook

Yeah. Yeah. I you know, I say this to my male clients all the time. Look, your daughters are going to date you, booboo. So you make a decision about what your expectation is you want to set for the day. You talk to your daughter like a halfwit. Well, guess what kind of son in law you probably get. Okay, so I hate to be.

00:21:18:03 - 00:21:20:06

Mary Crocker Cook

I mean, I'm pretty direct by nature anyway, but

00:21:20:06 - 00:21:20:14

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

yeah,

00:21:20:14 - 00:21:37:21

Mary Crocker Cook

that's just the way it is. You treat your daughter like she's bright. You treat her like you have expectations for her, right? You treat her like she's capable of problem solving and she's competent. Her standards will be higher. So if, let's say she does start, she falls in love with someone who starts being verbally abusive and, you know, treating her like crap.

00:21:37:21 - 00:21:44:22

Mary Crocker Cook

She's gonna notice because it's like, wait a second, this ain't right. Right? Versus, well, that's just how men are. Well, this has been

00:21:44:22 - 00:22:05:22

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

really fascinating discussion. And I could tell we're like, I feel like we're midpoint and we could go for a little longer. So but thank you so much for this today, Mary Crocker Cook I so appreciate it. I what I want to do is jump over to the podcast. So what I want to talk about there is if you're realizing that you have settled for bare minimum and that you're unhappy and you start, your gut is screaming at you been you're hearing it.

00:22:06:00 - 00:22:16:06

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Let's talk about what's practical steps you can start to take to be able to extricate yourself safely and healthily from this relationship. And where can people find you and your latest book?

00:22:16:07 - 00:22:35:00

Mary Crocker Cook

Okay, so first thing, and one of the things that I talk about and again, it's a very small book, it's like 80 pages, but I give, practical things you can do. And there are themes which has to do with setting yourself up in a position where you have, financial control, you have financial options, where you have a support system.

00:22:35:00 - 00:22:56:01

Mary Crocker Cook

You need to create a world for yourself separate from that relationship, because you need a place to land. Okay. And you can start that way before leaving. Yeah. Okay. You know, our grandmothers, you know, they knew to put $20 in their bra. They had a secret stash. Okay. These are things women have known forever. Okay? And it's okay to make decisions.

00:22:56:03 - 00:23:15:06

Mary Crocker Cook

I think part of is giving yourself permission to create a foundation so that you have options and, you know, you have options. So I do give very practical, even things like going to community college and finding something you can train in, in under a year in the medical field, like radiology, something that'll actually give you a job to help you make a living.

00:23:15:06 - 00:23:30:02

Mary Crocker Cook

Right. So things are cycle years. What you do make sure your name's on the lease. you know, things that give you options because. Yes. the biggest enemy we get is “I’m trapped.”. I mean, there's, “Emotionally I feel trapped,” and then there's literally “I’m trapped.” or

00:23:30:02 - 00:23:35:02

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

99% of all narcissists abusive relationships include financial abuse.

00:23:35:03 - 00:23:35:17

Mary Crocker Cook

Oh my gosh.

00:23:35:20 - 00:23:41:07

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Yes yes yes is a common common problem. So I love that you have very practical suggestions.

00:23:41:07 - 00:23:42:06

Mary Crocker Cook

Absolutely.

00:23:42:06 - 00:23:43:13

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

where can we find you.

00:23:43:13 - 00:24:06:06

Mary Crocker Cook

Oh okay. You can find me at Mary Crocker Cook. Com just my name. You can find my, books on Amazon or, MaryCrockerCookBooks.com But, you know, part of this really is recognizing you're not in this alone. There are supports systems. Basically, when you're in a nutty relationship, your reality gets all swirly, and you need to talk to people for reality testing.

00:24:06:09 - 00:24:06:17

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Yeah.

00:24:06:21 - 00:24:09:16

Mary Crocker Cook

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it helps you feel seen. Yeah.

00:24:09:18 - 00:24:17:04

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

So we're going to jump over now and yeah. Talk about how to extricate yourself safely. So thank you so much for joining us today I really appreciate it.

00:24:17:04 - 00:24:20:03

Mary Crocker Cook

You're welcome.

00:24:20:05 - 00:24:24:18

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Well, that's a wrap for this week's episode. Are you following me on TikTok, Facebook,

00:24:24:18 - 00:24:26:00

Mary Crocker Cook

Instagram and YouTube?

00:24:26:03 - 00:24:26:23

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

You can find me

00:24:26:23 - 00:24:29:05

Mary Crocker Cook

at Kerry McAvoy Ph.D.

00:24:29:07 - 00:24:33:02

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Or you can learn about me and more about my resources, such as the Toxic

00:24:33:02 - 00:24:33:20

Mary Crocker Cook

Free Relationship

00:24:33:20 - 00:24:36:22

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

Club at KerryMcAvoyPhD.com.

00:24:37:00 - 00:24:37:18

Mary Crocker Cook

If you found this

00:24:37:18 - 00:24:38:18

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

episode helpful,

00:24:38:23 - 00:24:39:12

Mary Crocker Cook

please do me a

00:24:39:12 - 00:24:44:03

Dr. Kerry McAvoy

favor and leave me a five star review and I'll see you back here next week.