Why We Miss the Abuse — And How to Break Free from the Confusion

Why do so many survivors miss they’re being abuse?

In this Labor Day Special, I’m revisiting three powerful interviews that follow the journey from denial to freedom.

First, we explore how abuse often hides in plain sight, even for smart, capable people. The author I’m referencing as “he” is Don Hennessey and his book, How He Gets into Her Head. Then, we examine how cognitive dissonance keeps you stuck. Finally, we describe what late-stage cognitive dissonance sounds and feels like—when you barely recognize yourself, and know you have to leave.

Whether you’re still in or out of a toxic relationship, learning to recognize the psychological patterns can help you plan your next step toward freedom.

Although there’s no Podcast Extra interview, in this week’s newsletter we take a deep dive into the underpinnings of cognitive dissonance, including if abusers’ intentionally created it to keep you stuck.

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More About Dr. Kerry

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist and author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism. Her blogs have been featured in Mamami, YourTango, Scary Mommy, and The Good Men Project. In Love You More, Dr. McAvoy gives an uncensored glimpse into her survival of narcissistic abuse, and her workbook, First Steps to Leaving a Narcissist, helps victims break free from the confusion common in abusive relationships. She hosts the Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse podcast and offers trauma-related advice on social media.

Transcript

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: On this US holiday, we're gonna take a closer look at the role of confusion by revisiting three powerful episodes. I wanna explore this topic from three different angles to understand why victims become so paralyzed and trapped in dysfunctional and abusive relationships. So let's take a closer look at the role of confusion in toxic or abusive relationships.

This first clip features Lisa Sonni and I having a discussion about the role of blindness, as well as criticism and judgment to keeping victims trapped. Often victims don't recognize that they're in abusive relationship. They remain blind to the pathological or dysfunctional dynamics, but society plays a role in the level that it judges victims for not seeing the betrayals, but also for being stuck and trapped in the toxic relationship.

The problem is it's not that easy to spot. It's not that easy to recognize when you're in, and it's certainly not easy to get out once you're in it. And that the problem has been is, and this is the part we don't like, we live in a world that has monsters in it,

Lisa Sonni: but we pretend that we don't. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Right. We don't like that reality.

We, find that a frightening reality, that there are people who can get into your head. That's why he named it the way he named it. They get into your head and they convince you and change you. And here's one of the ways that he talks about that is eerie and bothers me 'cause it happened. He talks about how predatory people have a language, the way in which they view the world and talk it and talk about it and construct it, and they pay attention to whether or not their victim starts to use that same language and see things from that perspective.

And when that woman or man does, then the person knows that they've successively targeted and groomed that person. But here's the problem. He then makes the statement that says the rest of us have also been groomed. The whole culture has been groomed because we use that language too. 'cause if you are a predator, what do you want?

You wanna avoid detection and you wanna avoid prosecution. You do not wanna be. You don't want any responsibility or accountability. So when we focus on victims, we basically are colluding with the mind of the predators. I didn't hurt this person. It wasn't me. If they had just had better boundaries and this would've never happened.

I'm just happened to like take advantage of their naivete or their vulnerability. No. This was a setup from the get go. 

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. They act like it. Just the, reason that it happened is because of the victim, which does assign blame on that. I try, you know, after years of therapy and being out of my own abusive relationship, to not focus on him, but to focus on how I can do better moving forward.

But the truth is when you look back into, and this is why I'm saying, no matter how many people had said it to me, told me, taught me, I'm telling you, I would've made probably zero different decisions or very few different decisions because I think more than anything, what I find so ironic almost about the people that are like, could never be me, is that is what will make it be you.

That 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: yes, 

Lisa Sonni: frankly, cockiness or like superiority that comes from these victim shamers that are like, I guess you were just stupid, Kerry. You need to think that we were stupid and that you're smarter than us, so that you feel safe, that it would never happen to you. But that's the literal thing that will make it happen to you.

That feeling, that intelligence is what's going to help you. So even when I talk about education, I don't just mean like, what is abuse? You just read a description and you know, but to like know and feel what it feels like, which maybe it's impossible. I mean, maybe you can't really know until you've been through it.

And I know there are some things we can do to protect ourselves, but we have to look at the reality that is, it can happen to anyone, and the more people think it could never happen to them, the more vulnerable they are. I make so much content around just leave and the, sort of sarcastic videos that I've made about how hard it is to leave and all the reasons that we stay.

Even in that we don't think that it's abuse. And that, to me, that's the biggest thing is that if you have people telling you like you should just leave, you're like, but it's not abuse. He just, people don't factor in your entire life experience and your worldview and all of the things. Instead of saying, and I saw this on Instagram.

I forget who posted it, but I loved it. I see how hard that you were trying to be loved instead of like, why did you stay? We all want love. How nice that you tried so hard to make something work, that you valued your marriage and you valued your vows so much that you were offering someone forgiveness and kindness, and it's wild to me that some people are like, well, I guess you're stupid. What? 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. Have you ever run into somebody who had that position and then got be abused and spoken to them about that shocking twist of world perspective?

Lisa Sonni: I haven't had any length conversations, but I can tell you that whenever I make those videos, there are multiple people in the comment sections in detail.

In fact, not just even one comment, but multiple comment threads. Talking about how they really felt like it would never happen to them. And I had a friend, I had a sister I had who went through it and I, could not understand it until I went through it on my own. So I haven't had any in-depth conversations.

But you do, even in the comments, see that shift of. I thought I was invincible. I thought this could never happen to me. It reminds me of kids doing crazy, dangerous things. Just thinking they'll never fall off the slide. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Right. 

Lisa Sonni: And they do because you, just don't think it could, you just think you're above it.

I don't know. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Right. 

Lisa Sonni: You just think that it's not gonna be you. You're more in informed. 

But you're not. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: I would say that when I was counseling and I would see people come into my office, and usually there were women in domestic violence situations, I thought, this is not gonna happen to me. I, don't know why they're staying.

I did have the arrogance thinking as a psychologist, somehow that made me impervious to this. 

Lisa Sonni: But I think people think that about, I have, I mean, I'm a coach, I have so many clients that are psychologists and therapists and social workers that come to me not seeking traditional therapy because they themselves acknowledge that.

They are a therapist. They didn't see it, that their colleagues don't understand it, and they come and seek a coach to talk about it in a specialized capacity because they're realizing they thought that it would never be them, and they feel embarrassed. And to be honest, I tell them all about your book. I tell them all you've gotta read, love you more, because I want you to see that you are not alone in being a victim, but you're also not alone in being a clinician or a therapist who has experienced this too, because people think you know this, we've talked about this, that people think that you should know. Like I get that. I didn't know, but you should know. But you know, go through the BE program yourself and tell me what you learned. Tell me if you figure out that you're gonna be in an abusive or, how to stay out of an abusive relationship.

They're not teaching it.. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: I know. 

No. People somehow think this therapists are superhuman. We should just have this extra sense and just no predatory behavior. No, it doesn't quite, you're the most blind when it comes. Yeah. The most blind when it comes to yourself.

This second clip takes a closer look at the role of confusion as a tactic to keep victims off balance and dysregulate.

Most people don't recognize that they're being fed mixed messages. We take what we see sincerely and directly. We don't realize that there's an ambiguity. They're designed to keep us off balance and destabilized. But remember, you can't consent to something if you don't have the full or accurate picture of what you're consenting to.

Lisa Sonni: No, I was unaware how confused I was despite being in a very obvious state of confusion. And I think that's the hardest part is like, it's confusing, but the confusion is confusing and you want to make sense of it, and you kind of can't, but you don't even recognize it. It's so hard when you're in it, you really don't recognize how confusing it is.

You're sort of trying to explain it to people. You explain how confusing it is and people are like, yeah. That's correct. It is confusing, but it's like you're trying to make sense of it just by talking about it and you just can't. I have come to realize, I think the confusion is on purpose. I think it's very targeted,

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: right.

Lisa Sonni: They want you to be confused. 'cause as long as you're confused, you're trying to explain to them why you're confused and they're gaslighting you, telling you have no reason to be confused. I told you I love you. I told you I want to be with you, but their actions don't make sense. And then they just dismiss their actions.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: I remember that feeling as well, Lisa. I really didn't know it was true and I realized at the time how many people in my life give mixed messages that that's just a common problem in relationships. For example, how many times have you had a friend, oh, it's been so long, I really miss you. We should get together, and then nothing happens.

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: And then you're thinking, yeah, we should. And then maybe you're like really did miss them, and you're thinking about, wow, we should do something. So you make the effort. Then they either like, don't really make the effort back, or maybe you like think they're gonna make an effort and then they don't make an effort.

So we live with a lot of ambiguity in relationships that I don't think most of us realize it. I think it primes us for these relationships. Because this is something I think toxic and narcissistic people lean into is they understand, I don't even know if it's unconscious or conscious. To me it doesn't really actually matter.

But they understand the disconnect between what they do and what we think they're doing, what they do, and what they say they're doing. And we tend to believe what they say over what they're doing. Although what they're doing really crushes us. So, yeah, I heard things like mine would at night, fall asleep, hold me in his arms and say, I've never loved anybody the way I love you, and stuff like that.

Or, I've never worked harder than I have worked in this relationship. And then I would believe it would like buy more time. It felt like I was casting the direction of the wind constantly. Is it working? Is he not working? Is it gonna make it today or is it not gonna make it? Should we. See, because the other thing that happens is we have to make these big, long-term decisions like I know you did too.

Like where do you send the kids to school? Do you buy another house? Do you get a car with a car payment on it? All these big things that you know that the more that you get embedded with this individual, the messier stuff gets, so you kind of hesitate on these decisions and then suddenly you get some kind of reassurance, so you go ahead and make a big decision.

Then on the other side you're like, why did I do that? Because now it's worse now getting audiences worse than it was before. 

Lisa Sonni: Yep. I see people do it too, where, you know, after we get married things will get better. Or, I mean, even in my comment section the other day, this woman was describing her relationship with her fiance.

Like, oh, this happens in my relationship, in, the context of whatever the was going on in the video, but like he's your fiance and this is happening. You are about to take a huge step. Are you not evaluating the relationship? Meanwhile I say that so judgmentally. Meanwhile, hello to the rest of us who've all made these decisions.

Based on that, I'm sure that in, this woman's context, he's telling her one thing and doing another thing, and she's literally pointing out how she's confused and, we're all confused. I see this confusion constantly, and you even hear some of these self-aware narcissists talk about how that confusion is on purpose. They know you end up going back to them and you know, you say this and then you do that, and then they rationalize it like we're seeking out them, giving us a reason why it doesn't match. Then I think so much of it is just arbitrary. I've heard you once say that in the moment they mean it.

When they say something. They might mean it maybe in that moment, but as soon as their opinion changes, as soon as something that something else that they want doesn't go with that anymore, they'll change it. Then that never happened. They never made that promise. It doesn't matter. They didn't lie. They meant it at the time and now they don't.

It's just that simple to them. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah, because what we get really confused about is that they run on state-driven decisions versus, I don't know what the right word for the rest of us is, because it's more, maybe for me it's based on my integrity or principles. Say for example, you and I right now are doing something together where we're selling something and we want something to sell out by a certain date, and we want the final payment by a certain time.

We make a policy and we say, okay, regardless of how I feel about the policy, the final payment has to be done in by this state. And then we based everything around that. It's not based on a state. How I feel is based on policy, a principle or an integrity or a moral or whatever. I think what happens with toxic and narcissistic people is like in the moment, oh well, you know, I just didn't feel like it.

Or I really wanted to, but something happened. Or they like literally like pull something out of the air. That may be true in that moment, like. I was confused and I didn't know what to do, so that's why I didn't do anything at all. Or they'll say, I know I made a really dumb decision. I was in a bad space, or I had too much to drink, or I overslept, or somebody at work needed something from me.

They like literally pull something out that fits for that moment, but a minute, that moment changes. They don't remember it 'cause they're not in that place anymore. It's not based on a policy, not based on integrity, not based on a principle, it's just based on how they feel. 

Lisa Sonni: It's the wind changes and their opinion changes.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. And me. 

Oh, and they don't remember it. The dieting line principle of all of it is they want what they want when they want it. Now, maybe they don't want to break the relationship up in that moment. They're not ready. Maybe they think, oh shoot, I don't know where I'd go stay, or, I don't have any money, or I just lost my job, or I'm not getting paid enough.

They'll have some kind of consequence they know they can't sort of pull out of, so then they push back on you to save them, which then they tell you what you wanna hear because that's what they know you wanna hear. So then you save them and then maybe two hours later. Whatever it was got fixed and now they're not in a mood and they're back into that crappy place again.

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: So it's literally on their convenience and I think that's what we don't understand. We don't get that piece 

Lisa Sonni: No. 'cause it's so different than what we experience and how we feel and make decisions, as you said. I think to me, the way out of it was really starting to recognize the patterns. Abuse cycles always follow a pattern, right?

When they're kind to you, it's self-serving. So what is the self-interest in keeping you? 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. 

Lisa Sonni: I think that another issue is that we tell ourselves they want to keep us because they love us, because they care about us so much. They want to keep us because we are a good victim, because we are able to be controlled because we're compliant or submissive.

If you actually look at their behavior, you kind of look past the second chances. Like every time you've given them a second chance, I'm sure it's 500 chances. Did it ever actually lead to genuine lasting change? 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: No, of course not. 

No. But I also wanna say another motivator is that they want stabilization in their life.

They're not stable, let's just admit it. Their life is a chaotic, confusing mess. They usually go bankrupt. They often have addiction problems. Problems keeping a job. They burn through relationships. Their life is a chaotic mess. They don't make payments. I mean, it just, it's a mess. You and I, the people they bring into their lives provide stability.

We often help keep a house over there. Ahead. We often give them schedule predictability, all of this stuff. I don't know how many people I've met who help with even getting a job or keeping a job or keeping them enclose to have the right, I mean, all the stuff that just makes life go better. So when they end up facing the possibility of losing you, they know they're loses stability of you, and they're not ready for that.

Until they get ready, then they're typically not ready to discard. But you're right, we end up thinking, oh, they love me because they need me. No, they need you. It doesn't mean they love you.

In the final clip, Lisa and I tackle the final piece that keeps most victims paralyzed, and that is the dangerousness that we feel in making a major decision.

You know, you have to remember, we got into the relationship with somebody thought we thought was safe. We didn't realize that we had betrayed ourselves by choosing this individual, but now we distrust our trust, and because we've experienced self abandonment and self betrayal, and we're afraid that we're gonna make another majorly wrong decision.

So as a result, you often struggle to make any decision at all. 

Lisa Sonni: And I'm standing here now and I know that this relationship needs to end. So why don't I just say the words, why don't I just do the thing that makes this end? And I couldn't? And in hindsight, you know, it's a trauma bond. Sure. Not everybody's experiencing one who's in these relationships, but I was.

But it was that little piece of self-doubt I knew and didn't know at the same time that I needed to leave. I don't know if that makes any sense. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah, it does, because that's exactly what I thought too. I, kept thinking if I make a decision, it's gonna be irrevocable. There's gonna be no takebacks on this.

This is not a person who's merciful. So if I'm wrong. I'm permanently wrong. And what if this is saveable? What if this could be the best possible relationship I ever had? Because the good parts are so amazing. You keep hoping somehow you can get back there. And you said something in another episode where you and I had an interview where you talked about how we keep holding out a hope for it.

We keep like wanting, we wanting the love bombing back. But here's the thing that happened in my relationship, and I think it happens, maybe not in all of them, but some of them. Is it the, abusive person also creates a sense of hope. They also want it to get, they, talk about why can't we be like that?

Why isn't it like it used to be? Or where did the person I met go? You, did you hear any of those kinds of comments? 

Lisa Sonni: All the time.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. I did too. So, to me, hearing that, it's like we both want that. So we're both invested. I thought we're both invested. I didn't realize this was just

Lisa Sonni: Games.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah, games. But it's also, I don't think he was always being gamey about it. I think sometimes it was just his own idealism, you know, his own unrealistic. He isn't changing. He wasn't going to change. But I think there's a part of him that wished that he could be who he is and that we could have this idyllic relationship.

I mean, as if both those realities could coexist. No, they cannot coexist because that's an impossibility. I do think that some people sort of have this unrealistic expectation, sort of magical thinking about all of it. So I didn't realize I took it as this, we want both want this, but I knew at the end that if I made a certain kind of decision, if I made a decision to leave, especially if it came from me, because we're talking about a narcissist, a true blue narcissist who leaving is an injury. It's a narcissistic wound, so it's a form of abandonment and rejection, and this type of person doesn't get over that. Even if they act like, I mean, I'm gonna tell everybody, if your partner acts like they're getting over it, it's a lie. They're holding that back as a card and they intend to use it against you later, and they're going to get even with you for what you did.

I was smart enough to know this and to know that if I did that, this was done. There was no comebacks from this. And I, just couldn't make a decision. So I'd stayed literally on that precipice for months and months. And I know I hear people talk about years and years. What's so terrible about this is that state of mind is damaging.

It's actually, we're not, meant to live there, and yet we're living there for long periods of time. 

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. I'm lucky too that when I think about it, that late stage, it really was months for me as well, not years. I'm so lucky to have found my way out of it and kind of resolved that even before I'd ever heard the phrase cognitive dissonance.

Yeah. But it's, really hard to identify and then hard to take the actions. And you said something to me once that was so profound that we always want the feelings to, to be like, I know I need to leave so that you can take the action, but sometimes you need to take the action and the feelings will follow.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yes.

Lisa Sonni: That was hard. 'cause what I'm hearing is you need to leave. So that you can feel good about leaving, but we wanna feel good about leaving so that we can leave. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. I realize that. Well, and it's interesting 'cause Dr. Ramini talks about a breaking shelf moment. That's how she puts it. We, often, in most areas of our life, we want this to have a clarity.

Like even if say that you decide you're gonna have a new health plan, you know you're gonna go out and you're gonna exercise every day and you're gonna eat clean or whatever it is that you decide and you think, okay, I will implement this when I have the energy, the motivation, and the drive to do this.

Well, the problem is. When's that ever gonna happen? It's when it's never gonna happen. It's like sticking your finger up under the air and asking for the wind to blow on it. It's not. You have, what motivation comes from is from action, not from feelings drive actions, actions drive feelings, but we think feelings drive actions.

We really do. We all believe that. It's not actually true. So we have to take the action and then we watch our feelings catch up. Here's the other piece about cognitive dissonance that makes it even trickier. And this is the part I think most people don't fully appreciate, but we, know because we've been talking about it, like even in the podcast about trauma bonds talk about the fact that they're the pain and the comfort.

They're the knife and the bandaid. What, are we saying when we say that? And by the way, that's literally accurate. That's what we're describing. These people are playing both roles. 

Lisa Sonni: Yes.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: So what happens in cognitive dissonance is there is a duality. There isn't one reality, there is a dual reality.

There is the reality of the person you thought you met and that exists in your mind. You, if I, was to ask you, Lisa, describe your partner when you first met them and what you, who you thought you were marrying, you would, you'd describe this amazing person that you thought you had fallen in love with.

And then if I said, now describe the person that terrorized you and you never, for sure. If you're gonna have that person walk through the door at night, then you would describe somebody that actually doesn't match. And in, and I bet you'd even say their habits don't match, their preferences don't match.

The way they dress, don't, doesn't match even What, what they do with their free time doesn't match. I mean, I, know for me that's the case. I, the person I met actually didn't exist. He never existed. He was a construction of my ex's, autumn ex's mind based upon what he thought I wanted to see.

That's who I fell in love with. I didn't fall in love with my ex. I, know I have a pretty decent picture of who my ex is today. If that person came to me and said, Hey, Kerry, let's have a relationship. I'd say, no, I'm not interested. We don't line up. There's no alignment in our beliefs and our values and our goals, even how we spend our time.

No alignment. I'm not interested. So this dual reality gets ex that gets created inside of us and we then become split. We literally become split ourselves. We have the person that knows how to deal with the great part. We have the person knows how to deal with the bad part. So we're not whole anymore.

We've created this two sides of ourself, and then we're asked our mind to make a decision out of a dual reality. Well, how crazy is that? 

Lisa Sonni: Yeah,

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: it's like standing. I dunno if you've ever watched the, there's a sci-fi show called Fringe where you sh shift into an alternate universe. Can you imagine if you're trying to stand one foot on both universes and then say, now tell me which real world's the real world.

They're both are real. 

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. 

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: And you're supposed to make a decision off of it. I can't compute. There's no answer. So we sit there and make no decision at all, and, then meanwhile, we know we're not making a decision because we actually don't split, or mine isn't two pieces. It sits with both realities and says, this doesn't compute.

This doesn't compute, and it makes no decision at all, which is why the damage is happening, because it can't compute. 

Lisa Sonni: Yeah. Making that final decision. It just, it felt so permanent for me that I was like, if I make the wrong choice, like this is it. And, when you think about the other things that it impacts, like family and money and just massive decisions.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yes. 

Lisa Sonni: I get why people are paralyzed. So how, I mean the question, right? How do you resolve cognitive dissonance? How do you deal with it? There is no like step one, do this. Step two, there is, and there isn't. Of course, it's a massive heavy weight to carry, to start thinking about how to get yourself out and make the decision.

Dr. Kerry McAvoy: Yeah. I do think there are some practical steps that help though, and I'd be, I think that's a great kind of segue. We can start moving into talking about how. How can you resolve the two realities? You have to decide what is the true reality. And I don't even, that's what you talk about with your clients.

You talk about what's actually true and when we, and you know, I, use this analogy in a podcast extra. it's, as if we are standing with somebody who's a thief or an intruder who's stabbed us and continues to hold the knife, and then we try to hold them close and act as if they're also our partner.

They're not our partner. They're, they don't, did not have our best interest at heart. But coming to see that. And that's where people like I see the greatest level of confusion is that we can't accept that this isn't a changeable situation. It's fixed. This is who this person is. They don't intend to change neurologically, they don't intend to.

Their brains are now different. It's hardwired different. They have a low capacity for insight, a low capacity for empathy, and they have really not a big desire for intimacy. And there's not tremendous degree of moral codes inside these people. This is, these are fixed traits. They're not like, you know, a, decision like, you know, today I just wanna wear boots instead of my sneakers.

It's not that kind of a decision. This is a, this is part of who this person is. So part of what I suggest, and I'd love to know what you suggest too, but I suggest people take a, take an example. Take a very painful example out of your history. And to actually then look at the practically and ask yourself, based on this, what does this tell you about the relationship with this person?

Abuse can be really hard to recognize, partly because there's just a lack of education about what to expect in a healthy relationship, but also because pathological and predatory people are good at creating confusion. It's also tough because dysfunctional relationships require a level of self abandonment and self betrayal, which causes a loss of trust in ourselves and in our decision making ability.

So I hope by focusing on confusion today, that maybe has helped you if you're struggling with confusion, to know if you're going through something that's normal or maybe something that is abusive. So thank you so much for joining me around this profound and important topic of abusive relationships on this US holiday weekend.

And be sure to join me next week when I'm joined by Associate Judge Michele Locke for a fascinating discussion on post-separation and legal abuse.

Well, that's a wrap for this week's episode. Are you following me on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube? You can find me at Kerry McAvoy PhD or you can learn more about me and my resources such as a toxic free relationship club at kerrymcavoyphd.com. If you found this episode helpful, please do me a favor and leave me a 5-star review. And I'll see you back here next week.