Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse

Narcissist vs. Narcissist: What Happens When These Two Toxic Personalities Match-Up

• Kerry McAvoy, Ph.D. • Season 4 • Episode 231

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"My coworker is a narcissist—and so is our boss. What happens when two narcissists have to work together?" 

This week's Fan Mail question comes from a YouTube listener who writes: "Thank you for all your content! Very helpful. I am curious to know - what tends to happen when 'a narcissist meets a narcissist' - meaning they are introduced to each other, are coworkers or need to cooperate with each other in some way or even end up being partners? Are there any patterns to or are there typical characteristics/outcomes to this dynamic? Might they not be aware that they are both narcissists?" 

In this episode, Dr. Kerry breaks down what really happens when two highly narcissistic people enter each other's orbit—whether they fast-bond over shared grandiosity, descend into brutal competition for dominance, or manage an ice-cold alliance for mutual benefit. She explains the collusion-to-competition pipeline, why narcissistic couples can look magnetic but feel exhausting, and why most narcissists will never see themselves the way they see each other. 

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Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

Disclaimer: This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseli...

Do Narcissists Know They're Narcissists?

Dr. Kerry: [00:00:00] But usually when they meet, there's one or two reactions that happen. They may meet up and really feel a collusion where there's a, an a temporary alliance where they compete together for status, power, and attention. Or it may end up being a, so it may look like a really magnetic, a really powerful charismatic couple.

But if you were in the inside of this relationship, it would feel exhausting and very unsafe to be a part of. Do they know? That they're a narcissist. Well, often they may not. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Most people who are narcissists don't walk around thinking I'm a narcissist. They tend to see themselves as,

thank you so much for sending in your fascinating questions. I really deeply appreciate it. I got another one that I really love and, and I've actually been itching to answer. So thank you so much to the YouTube listener who sent this question in. She writes, or he writes, [00:01:00] thank you so much for your content.

It's very helpful. I wanna know what happens when a narcissist meets a narcissist. Meaning they're introduced to each other as like coworkers. Do they need to cooperate with each other or do they end up even being partners? Is there some patterns or typical characteristics and outcomes to this dynamic?

Might they not even be aware that they are both narcissists? So this is something I get asked often, but I don't think I've ever answered it before. Do narcissists ever meet and like other narcissists? Yes, they do. And sometimes narcissists end up meeting and marrying narcissists. So they can also not only just end up working together, but they may end up actually married to each other.

So I wanna first though, before I get into the nitty gritty of this, talk about what we're talking about. First of all. I'm really gonna be referring to people who have high narcissistic traits, which means that they have a high amount of entitlement and there's a low accountability. Um, because that's what most people are talking about.

We're really actually not identifying someone with [00:02:00] NPD, narcissistic Personality Disorder. We're talking about people who have a lot of narcissistic traits, who are very challenging people to work with. So yes, they can end up meeting each other and yes, they may even like each other. Usually when they meet, there's one or two.

Reactions that happen, they may meet up and really feel a collusion where there's a, an a temporary alliance where they compete together for status, power, and attention. Or it may end up being a competition. In other words, a war about dominance. But often what starts out, if it starts out as collusion, it's gonna turn into competition once the supply gets scarce.

Or once one person is feeling. Outshined by the other. So here's the kind of a pattern that you're gonna see when this happens. When they first meet, there's usual a mutual recognition or a fast bonding period. They may even love each other at first sight because they see somebody who understands them, who's fluent in image management, [00:03:00] who understands the importance and utilizes social and status cues.

They may be impressed by this person's confidence or charm or a way that which the so sort of mag. Genetic in the beginning. So it's not uncommon when narcissists to meet narcissists or those with high narcissistic traits to fast bond with each other because they see each other as a useful mirror.

They like the mirroring they're getting or they, they see the other person as a power upgrade. Like this person's going to help them achieve maybe some goal that they want or access something that they've been really looking for. So they click because they share, sort of think of it like the same operating system, but.

If they're in a coworker situation, often what typically starts to happen is rivalry and triangulation. Typically, you're gonna see credit wars, like who's taking credit for what work. There's fights over visibility, or who's the star? A team. You may see undermining [00:04:00] campaigns where. They subtly sabotage each other or they gossip about each other behind the back, or they build alliances with other core workers in order to compete and work against that other person.

You'll see them recruit people as fans and try to isolate that other person who's narcissistic and they'll weaponize policy, like they'll use HR and procedures selectively in order to harm them and control the narrative. So in other words, work. When there's two high narcissistic individuals becomes a place of competition where everything becomes about performance, about praise, rank, and recognition, because those things are, are forms of supply and they're finite.

So it becomes a race to see who can get more of what if they're forced to cooperate. See it as a brittle or fragile team because, because they're forced to be, to be in this sort of form of collaboration or cooperation, [00:05:00] there's gonna be a lot of transaction. Like, I'll work with you as long as it benefits me, but usually there's some form of negotiating around who's in control.

Who gets to speak first? Who speaks the longest, who takes credit, who decides what, and when. You may see forms of hospitable politeness, but it's really actually just for image management. These people usually behind closed doors, there's more hostility or at least passive aggressiveness being expressed because what they're doing is they're protecting the image, but they're not really liking the other person and behaving very cooperatively with them.

So it's usually, it's just for. Public perspective or public reputation. Now, if they end up as romantic partners, what you're gonna see is a very intense but unstable relationship. Usually you're gonna see what's uh, a kind of a power couple dynamic where they're mutual image building, they share common or shared enemies, and they also [00:06:00] share the shared grandiosity.

They sort of see themselves as the best couple or the couple to know, but usually there's control battles like who. Tries to be the main character or the predominant, um, most forward facing person. You're gonna see a lot of jealousy and punishment cycles where the admiration then turns into a, some, some form of threat or there's devaluation or they, they.

Sort of become grudge holders and seek revenge. You may see a lot of scorekeeping, maybe kind of private or hidden forms of contempt and forms of where they try to humiliate each other, but, but usually there's this mutual exploitation of each other that's not really love. It's actually just taking advantage of, of each other.

It's a form of transactional behavior, so it may look like a really magnetic, a really powerful charismatic. Couple, but if you were in the inside of this relationship, it would feel exhausting and very [00:07:00]unsafe to be a part of. Now, what happens in these relationships? So let's kind of predict how they end, but do they end?

Yes. Sometimes they end, but not always. Some of them end up staying together because the benefits of being together outweigh the, the benefits of breaking up. But usually in these relationships. One of the persons is the dominant and the other tends to fall into the form of submission of some form. It's usually more of like a over aggressive person tends to win the short term challenges, but they often kind of burn out and exit when they can't control the narrative and maybe they might learn to share a kind.

Hold alliance as long as there's some kind of a shared payoff. Maybe it's access to money or influence or status. Maybe it's the way they wanna really control or manage the optics, or maybe it's part of their business branding, but the relationship only lasts as long as the arrangement serves. Both of their needs.

Do they know that they're a narcissist? Well, [00:08:00] often they may not. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Most people who are narcissists don't walk around thinking I'm a narcissist. They tend to see themselves as the best one, the most competent one, the one with the highest standards. The one who knows the most, and they end up thinking of everyone around them, is just surrounded that they're surrounded by idiots.

So they may label their partner as narcissistic. Because they can see it in the other individual, but they're not likely to really see it or claim it for themselves because that's what comes with narcissistic traits, a lack of insight, a lack of self-reflection, and they tend not to take any responsibility or accountability.

So it really depends on the couple what happens and how well they work together. Whether it's a work relationship or a a romantic relationship. It kind of depends. And this is more of a vulnerable narcissist or an overt, grandiose narcissist. And it also depends on who has more power in the form of who actually has more status, more money, or actually more social proof.

But depending on [00:09:00] that, we'll all kind of shape these relationships and make them look. Different. So you may see two people who end up together that you would think shouldn't be together and you wonder how they make it, but it's usually because the payoff is worth it. And so they put up with each other for those reasons.

So thank you so much for this question. It was fascinating. I love being able to answer it. And if you would like to have me answer your question on air, please use the link provided in the show notes below, or email me directly at clients. C-L-I-E-N-T s@kerrymcavoyphd.com and in the subject line, put fan mail question.

And thank you so much for these. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoy answering your question.

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Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D.

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