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Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse
Confused by your relationship? Do you catch yourself second-guessing, walking on eggshells, or feeling emotionally drained? Whether you’re still in the chaos or trying to rebuild after leaving, this podcast is your lifeline.
Join retired psychologist Dr. Kerry McAvoy as she exposes the hidden dynamics of toxic relationships. You’ll learn how destructive personalities operate, the manipulative tactics they use, and the stages of abuse—plus the practical steps to heal and reclaim your life.
If you’re ready to break free, rebuild your self-worth, and find lasting emotional freedom, hit play and start your recovery journey today.
Breaking Free from Narcissistic Abuse
Do Narcissists Enjoy Hurting You? Here's Dr. Kerry's Hard Truth
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Why does someone who divorces a narcissist keep going back to them?
A listener writes in, “My best friend divorced her narcissistic ex two months ago — but she keeps talking to him, then ignoring him, then reaching out again. She says she wants to move on, but she can't seem to break the cycle.”
In this episode, Dr. Kerry explains why leaving a narcissist doesn't automatically break the trauma bond and why survivors struggle to escape.
Submit Your Question
If you'd like Dr. Kerry to answer your question on air, email it to clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com or use this link.
Submit your question to be answered on air here!
Resources
- ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
- The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
- First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
- Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support
Follow Dr. Kerry!
Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.
As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.
This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.
I want to tell you a really hard truth. Understanding this isn't gonna give you the closure that you're looking for. Because even if you can understand the neurobiology, the early attachment wounds, even the personality structures, that still doesn't make that person safe. It still doesn't make the harm less real, and it doesn't make the situation understandable. What does their behavior cost me? What am I ignoring? What does my nervous system need now to feel safer? What will I decide not to tolerate for the future? I always appreciate the thoughtful questions you guys send me through a fan mail. And today is another one that is just a really powerful request. So a listener writes in, I love the explanations to why these abusers are drawn to people with empathy and kindness. And how they mirror these traits is how to draw us to them. I just don't get why they then exert power and control to feel decent or fulfill some gap in them. I spoke to a social worker who said they get a thrill from it. I feel understanding this will help propel me to a new stage of healing. But maybe I just need to let go of the need to understand and just accept that some people are evil. This is a critical question that I think a lot of survivors ask when they get out of these toxic relationships. We really want to understand why people do what they do, that we're trying to resolve what makes somebody attracted to power and control, but even worse, to hurting and harming other people. And we end up wondering if maybe they have some type of a psychological wounding or a deficit that drives them. And if it's not that, then the only explanation we're left with is just maybe they're evil. And we're trying to decide whether or not is this really a pathology? Is it some type of lack of integrity? Maybe it's thrill seeking. Is it out of loneliness or emptiness? Maybe it's sadism. And we look to try to categorize it so we can emotionally metabolize it. And I'm sure to hear that some people actually do get a thrill from it really hits hard because that shifts the story from this is a broken person to this is an evil person. And that's a huge jump to make. I know that it's really hard to understand these types of things because we're trying to make sense of the insensible. But here are some things that maybe can be helpful in trying to make sense. For some people, power and control feels good. It may provide a temporary reduction in shame. Maybe it gives them a surge of superiority that counteracts a deep-rooted inferiority. They certainly would get a dopamine hit from the dominance. And it would provide relief from internal emptiness. And for some, it provides emotional regulation through external control. And there are those, unfortunately, who do get sadistic pleasure from harming other people. So, in these situations, for some people, harming others, controlling others, having power over others stabilizes a very fragile, kind of brittle, unstable identity structure. That it's not just a thrill and just about regulation, it's also about ego repair and nervous system stabilization. But I want to tell you a really hard truth. Understanding this isn't going to give you the closure that you're looking for. Because even if you can understand the neurobiology, the early attachment wounds, even the personality structures, that still doesn't make that person safe. It still doesn't make the harm less real and it doesn't make the situation understandable. So it can be helpful to understand that for some people, power and control is emotionally regulating because it soothes their sense of loss of status, maybe the humiliation they're feeling, insecurity, maybe the ego fragmentation. For others, there is a genuine thrill or gratification that they get from it. And it does then mentally and psychologically tether you to them by creating a trauma bond. But the helpful shift in questioning is to move from asking yourselves, why do they need this, to saying to ourselves, what am I going to do now that I realize this? Here's some things you can do that will help you heal after experiencing one of these destabilizing, harmful relationships. As long as we're asking the question, why do they need to do this? We're still psychologically centering them because we're still asking ourselves, what is it about them that makes them do this to me? And we're still, in a way, tethered to this individual. Clarity starts to happen when we shift that to what does their behavior cost me? Or what am I ignoring? Or what does my nervous system need now to feel safer? Or what will I decide not to tolerate in the future? We don't get closure from understanding the psychology of the person who harms us. We get closure from understanding our own injury. Instead of trying to make it make sense through explanations, think of looking at it from a perspective of pattern recognition. So move from is it shame that drive this or attachment wounding or childhood injury to, hey, there's a pattern to this. I need to pay attention to when someone starts to mirror me, use idealization, puts me on some kind of a pedal. I need to recognize when someone starts to mirror me, when they idealize me by putting me on some kind of pedestal, when then there starts to be these subtle towns and then they start to escalate control. Those are the moments that I can, instead of debating, is this a good or bad situation, I just need to say, hey, I don't feel safe and I don't want to be in a relationship that makes me feel this way. It's very tempting to understand why people do things like this and to swing between they must be wounded to I think they're evil. We actually don't need to try to solve that. Instead, we could just say to ourselves, this person has chosen to harm me and they're benefiting it from it. And that's a great way to bring some emotional separation. All that matters in this situation is that they knew, they continued to do it, and it worked for them. And that we don't want to be in a relationship like that with somebody who does that. It is hard when we're an empathic person to imagine somebody would enjoy harming other people. But you don't have to try to name it. We just need to understand that we need to move away from it. And we have to live with the fact that there are unanswerable questions in these situations. And maybe we're never going to make it make logical sense. But our greatest clarity and peace comes when we separate ourselves from these individuals and start to build our identity outside these relationships. So thank you so much for asking me this really great question. I love the fact that I was able to do a deep dive into it. And maybe you have a question that you'd love to have me answer on air. If so, please send it to clients at carrymacavoidphd.com. That's C-L-I-E-N-P-S at Carymacavoid Ph D dot com. Or use the link that I've put below in the show notes, and I'd love to be able to click on your situation or your question.
