Why You’re Attracted to Your Trauma (and How to Fix It) ft. Dr. Nikki Coleman | EP. 106

In this powerful episode of Cup of Conversation, we sit down with psychologist, sexologist, and relationship expert Dr. Nikki Coleman for one of our most REAL and transformative conversations yet.

We’re diving deep into the truth about modern relationships—especially for Black women—unpacking the difference between “care love” vs real romantic love, why so many people are dating from a place of survival instead of intention, and how unhealed trauma silently shapes who we choose as partners.

Dr. Nikki breaks down:

Why you may be attracted to your wounds
The difference between empathy, accountability, and enabling behavior
How attachment styles and childhood experiences show up in adult relationships
Why “stop dating potential” might be the advice you need to hear
The truth about therapy (and yes… why some therapists aren’t for you 👀)
How intimacy actually requires vulnerability—not just communication
When it’s time to give grace… and when it’s time to walk away

This episode gets raw, relatable, and REAL as we talk about:
✨ Feeling unseen and unprotected in relationships
✨ Repeating toxic patterns
✨ Doing the inner work vs trying to change your partner
✨ Why love alone might not be enough… or is it?

If you’ve ever questioned your relationship, your healing journey, or what love is supposed to feel like—this conversation is for YOU.

💬 Key Quote: “You are each other’s medicine… but only if you’re willing to heal.”

TIMESTAMPS 

00:00 Care Love vs Real Love
03:00 Why Some Therapists Don’t Work for You
06:00 Dating from Trauma & Survival
10:00 Romantic Love vs Emotional Safety
14:00 STOP Dating Potential
18:00 Accountability vs Apologies
22:00 Emotional Needs & Communication
27:00 Healing Isn’t Linear
32:00 Can You Change Your Partner?
37:00 Is Love Enough?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

What's up, sippers, and welcome back to another cup of conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Where we have conversations worth having. I am your host, T. And I'm your girl, Coco. And welcome back to another amazing episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yes. Episode What is it? 106? Six seven. Six. Six. Six seven, aren't you playing? I'm back with my keys. No, please. We're back on the pink couch with another special episode. And y'all have not seen us with a guest in a long time. In a while. We've been giving y'all some solos, really back and forth. But we have a special guest in the building today. Psychologist, sexologist, public speaker, um, founder of, yes, therapist. Founder of Dr. Nikki knows. Give it up for Dr. Nikki.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Oh, thank you for coming to the course. Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited too. Um, I don't know if T told you because you've basically been in or your team has been in communication with T. Yeah. And but um, and I haven't really had much interaction. Um they know. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I already told them that ain't that on my top. Yeah, but um, but I'm excited about this because um I went to school for counseling and for therapy. And so that's just one I always wanted to do like LPC uh licensed uh therapies, but I haven't done that amongst the other things I probably haven't done. But I I really like focus on this kind of stuff a lot. Actually, our our next time we meet, we're gonna be talking about some kind of therapy stuff, but not on the lines of special. It was kind of yep, because I've been like really, I've been going to therapy, and I feel like I've been what I I told my uh one of my friends that hooked me up with the current therapist that I'm with. I said that what he's making me realize, it's a lot of shitty therapies out in the world. Because and I'm not saying that in a bad way, but I feel like that I've been an advocate for therapy for a long time and I've always been to therapy, but the therapist that I'm with now, I've never got the breakthrough that I have gotten now. And the things that he's saying, I've never heard before. And I feel like for me to have a counseling kind of background in school-wise, anyways, and to never have heard some of the things that I'm I've heard in school, but never heard it through with all these therapies. I'm like, why is that? Yeah, and um, so um, I'm excited about today.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yeah, I think that that's really important because one, there are a lot of bad therapists out here, to be clear, but I always say every good therapist isn't a good therapist for you. So it has to be aligned with where you are, what your needs are, what the therapist is able to bring. I'm a I'm a psychologist, so I've been doing therapy for over 20 years at this point. I've had different therapists myself, and so I'm speaking from experiences on both sides of things. In my practice, I always do a 15-minute consultation before I start working with any client because it has to be a good fit. And I always tell them I want to hear what it is you're looking for, and then I want you to have the opportunity to ask me the questions you need to know. Because I've also been there where you start working with someone and you think it's gonna go well, and then you're like, and now I gotta go find somebody else to start over this, uh, like telling my life story. Right, right. So now I have to repeat that story again. Exactly, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Okay, so um, you did mention that you're a psychologist, we know you're a sexologist. We're gonna get into all the things today. Yeah, but last our last two episodes, we had pretty like a therapy talk conversation. We always say this is like our couch therapy. So we sit here and talk about these things, and one of the things was love and how um intentional love is, or is it more um shaped off of survival and needs and necessities in the regular world? So um I wanted to start there because we kind of talked about it in the episode about love just not being enough. Um, for me personally, in a fantasy land, I would like love and character to have been enough. You know, uh if you are you the type of person that get up and go on your own? Are you the type of person who holds the door or smile and say thank you or have, you know, on your own without having to do it performatively for other people? Um, so my first question is are we choosing partners off of love or survival? Do you think that since we have to um add in all the other circumstances that we more so pick what would make us comfortable in living in everyday reality? Or do we pick people that, or are we known to pick people? You can't I know you can't speak for everybody, to pick people that, you know, yeah, make us feel good.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

So I I think that's a a layer question. So, and I I would separate it out in three different ways. Okay. I think that people choose relationships period full stop for a wide variety of reasons. I think people experience love, and I think people um have intimacy in relationships. So I hear you sort of like intertwining the three pieces. So for me, one of the things that actually comes up a lot in my practice, I I experience a lot of black women that have experienced care as a form of love, but not experience love. Right. Um and then romantic love is a very specific expression thereof. And a lot of people have very um, I would say limited, but also very like stereotypical expectations of love that come from media, that come from stories we've been told about what love should look like. And romantic love is is very much not what we see in songs, videos, TV films, right? So I think there can be oftentimes a mismatch between all of those expectations, what you've experienced, and then what actually happens in the relationship. Right, right. And I I like to talk about sustainability of a relationship, whether versus healthy or unhealthy. I like to talk about uh level of intimacy in the relationship, um, compassion, care, all of those pieces to me. There I could talk more, but the love piece encompasses all of that. Okay. Now, the other piece that you said that I think is really, really important. You were talking about like trauma, right? Or unmet needs, right? Right, right. That's sort of that's what I hear when you say like survive. Survival, yeah. So when I do couples therapy, um, the the framework that I'm trained in is called Imago relationships. Okay. Look it up, lots of good stuff on YouTube. And the essential um underlying idea with Imago relationships is for our our important relationship. We're talking about like marriage, partnership, okay, okay, locked in together, right? What we're actually doing is seeking unconsciously, but we're seeking out the wounded parts of ourselves and our other partner.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Well, it looks like you're a good therapist too, because that's what my therapist told me about myself. I was slow every he told me, I don't mean to cut you off, but he told me this. He told me that as much as you would hate to admit it, the things that you hate about your husband or you don't like about your husband, or the things that are you unconsciously don't know that those are insecurities that you hold. 100%. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

I tell my couples all the time, you are each other's medicine. But you have to, you have to be in a space to one, have enough self-awareness, self-regulation, emotional regulation to be able to see that, and to recognize that there is benefit in the process of healing your wounds. And it goes vice versa. So whatever you're reflecting for your husband, he's also reflecting for you, right? It's not one side.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

And he taught he named it uh rejection and acceptance. So he told me that it's nothing more that I require from my husband is to be accepted by him, and it's the same for him. And what we're giving right now, well, I'm putting y'all in my business, but like with the stuff that we have going on right now, it's like I'm rejecting, he rejecting. And then he also put me in, he put me, um, he put the attachment styles and he showed me how they are so important and how right now with the negative that I give, I'm feeding into, I'm I'm basically building up the attachment style that he, the negative attachment style that he currently has, and vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So yes, I agree. Yeah, yeah. It's just like y'all fighting with the opposite ends of the magnet. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, pushing each other away. I can say I can agree to that too, because I feel like the same in my relationship. Like we're both trying to be her, we're both trying to push back and forth, and we're not catering, like you said, to those soft spots that he needs, and he's not catering to the soft spots that I need. But I kind of want to park at one of the things you said about romantic love versus care love. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Because I feel like I just feel like we all are searching for some kind of care outside of our family. So when that's how we I, and especially in the black community, I feel like that's how we pick our partners off of how much somebody cares for me, what they'll do for me. But they're not showing up in the romantic sides of things where you have to kind of like teach them how you like to be, I don't like to be touched so much, or I do like to be touched so much, I don't like to um be held that way, or I do like to be held that way. Like different than I feel like we don't remember to show up in the romantic side of things. So, what would you say to somebody who only knows care, love, and they're trying to kind of renavigate to learn romantic love?

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Yeah, I think it could be really threatening. I think that that's where the importance of the intimacy comes in. But the intimacy requires vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

And that's that's the area that we struggle in, right? So when I talk about care, what I mean is like the vast majority of us come from homes where we've had our needs met, our material needs met, right? We've had a roof over our heads, um, we've had clothes, we've been able to go to school, um, we've been supported in our well-being. Right. But who you are as a person, the soul of you, the core of you, your personalities, your failures, your weaknesses. Most of us have not had a space in our primary families where that has been acknowledged, talked about, allowed to just be without ridicule, without dismissal, right? So that's the stuff that I think we're oftentimes seeking in our romantic relationships. Right, right. But because we haven't had it, sometimes when we get it, if that's where the threat comes in, right? Right. It feels new, it feels different, it feels uncomfortable to our near our nervous system, right? Um, and so that is the piece that is most important. It's the compassion, it is the ability to show up as your vulnerable self without judgment, without ridicule. That's not the same thing as you and your partner agreeing on everything. That's not the same thing as you and your partner even understanding each other. I always tell my clients, I'm far less concerned about understanding than I am about empathy and about the fact that your experience is your experience. It's gonna be some stuff, it seems like y'all are really good friends. Stuff that you each do that you're like, I don't know why, but that's her thing, right? Her, that's just who she is. Right, right. We have to have that in our romantic relationships as well, without there being the consequence of being distant or pushed away, right? The the intimacy is we can have that connection, we can have that sweetness, we can have that um joy, we can have the pleasure, we can have the eroticism, all of that rolled into one without there being limitations or parts of ourselves that we have to put aside. Um, and that if you see your partner struggling with one of those things, that you are able to help create a safe space for them to show up in that softness with their weaknesses, with their right. And this isn't like to talk about harmful behavior, right? This is that's that's different. Right, right. I talk about harm behavior.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Asking about the grace part, I was gonna ask about the empathy. You you you talked about the having the empathy more than understanding. And I I feel like I personally struggle with that because okay, let's okay, once we identify what's going on, can we move past okay? I understand you, I have the empathy. Okay, now how are we moving past this? That's what my immediate like, and I think sometime, well, I know sometimes that it comes across as you're really not acknowledging, you're doing it out of you know, the obligation, wanting to get past it, but you're not actually acknowledging it and having that empathy for real. And so, but what is the difference between okay, I have empathy for a situation, but I don't have enough you is the grace has run out for this situation, this problem, or um, with us as black women, I feel like a lot of us date with potential in mind.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

So we give you that grace. Oh, we know you're not where you need to be right now, but we see it in you, you know, like I see you a hustler, or I see you're a go-getter, this, that, but you're not reaching reaching your full potential that I see in you yet, but I'm giving you grace, year one, year two, right? Year three. All right now. When is the grace? Yeah, that's not what I mean at all.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

Oh, okay, okay, all right. No, no, no, no, no. Um, and and direct the camera, stop dating potential. Oh stop dating potential. Right. When you choose to be in a relationship with someone, you have to choose to be in a relationship with the version of who they are the day you agree to be in that relationship. If there is growth afterwards, boom, wonderful. But if you go in expecting, and so many women go wrong there. Like so many women. I've worked with clients who are going through divorce post-divorce, and when I ask them, like, what you know, like let's walk back, they knew before, but they didn't pay attention to that, right? So that's not what I mean in terms of grace. I'll come back to your your question. Um, I would I would encourage you to rethink about how you're considering empathy, right? So if you think about it like um if you take it outside of the romantic context, right? If you have pets, if you have children, um you don't give up on your pet or child because they have an accident or they mess up, right? You are like, ugh, you might, it might get on your nerves, you might fuss. You're like, all right, this is something we're working for, right? Right. So with your partner, again, not harmful behaviors, right? Um, you that doesn't mean you don't get frustrated, annoyed, worn down. But the difference is when they are being accountable for how their behavior impacts you and the relationship, that's where I believe the grace has to come in.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

But a lot of folks are excusing behaviors. That's not grace, that's excusing behavior, and the other person is never accountable. They don't ever say I'm sorry, they don't ever actually do anything different. That's what accountability means. It says, Ah, I keep change behavior. Right. I see its impact, I'm gonna try it different this time, right? I understand that what I did caused a problem, right? And I own that. That's not defensiveness, that's not gaslighting, that's not minimization, that's not victim, it's none of those things. I don't often always see that happening um in heterosexual relationships, right? Um, and I would say going back to that conversation of like you seek out the wound, right? You also have to be willing to say, if I keep letting this person treat me this way, what does that say about me?

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

What does that really say about how much I value myself? Right, right. How I feel about me. Yeah. Yeah. Um go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

I was just gonna say, I started laughing when you said that because I have a a thought in my head. When you said that, you like, okay, you take accountability and you acknowledge that the the thing is wrong. Okay, this person probably not gonna get it right even the next time. Yeah, right. But it's always my thought, and I gotta work on this, I know, probably, because I'm like, I don't care about all that apology stuff because you didn't already did what you wanted to do. You get what I'm saying? Like, I can't take back you already had your fun, did what you wanted to do. Like, you get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Like it's like but that's the accountability piece. Right. Not saying I'm sorry. I can't I could really care less about the sorry, right? I I mean the words are nice, but that doesn't do anything because the damage is done. Done, right? Right. The accountability is let me look at what I did to contribute to the damage, and I'm not gonna do that again. I'm gonna own it. Okay, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

So I guess the question for me is a damage though.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

Right, but oh, well, your feelings are being hurt, right? If you have an expectation that has been articulated, that's a that that that part is important. Yeah, that is. Oh, I'm gonna articulate. I'm gonna say this, don't do this. Yeah, okay. I I like to use the really simple, real simple examples, right? You have a uh five-year-old and you say, Don't take that juice in the living room. The first time they take the juice in the living room, you correct them. Hey, we're not supposed to have it in there, right? Remember what we do. They take the juice in there, the juice spill. You gonna be pissed. I told you. Like, right? Okay, it was an accident, mama. Okay, all right. The third time they're walking in there with the juice. Hey, where are you going? Oh, I'm sorry, mama. I made a mistake before. I finished my juice over here. That's the accountability. Yeah, but if they keep going, they looking you in your face and they pouring the juice on the couch, that's not accountability. Yeah, so you can say, I'm sorry, right? We see that happening in relationships, but you just excuse it differently because to confront it is gonna require vulnerability. Some vulnerability, right? You have to be accountable for your part too. Yeah, did I really communicate?

unknown 18:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Was I clear? And if and then maybe I had to make the decision that this isn't the relationship for me, and I don't want to go through the mourning, I don't want to go through the rejection, I don't want to da da da, right? But so there's always work being done on both parts, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

But you like you said, you said you're the one who's gonna say something. I'm the one who thought I said it because I thought it up here. I thought it's so long, and I I even was about to go say it, or I might have said something towards it, but I didn't really say yeah, everything that like I didn't make it clear.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

No, I've been using my therapy voice. I'll be like, okay, so we look, we this is how I feel about this situation.

SPEAKER_04 19:20

I I go all are you sure he's receiving it?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

So that's what I'm realizing in therapy. Like it was, I was I was crying, y'all. My leg just came off everything because this man was tearing me down. He was like, You are validing what how you feel, like he's telling me you are validating how you feel, but you're dealing with somebody that can't even process what you're trying to get him to do. And he said, He said, A lot of therapists, and this is why I said this is what made me come to the realization that a lot of therapists are shitty, because he was like, A lot of therapists stop at the do. They don't they don't do the they don't go to the be. You can't do yourself into being a person that you're not. You get what I'm saying? You can tell they can tell you, oh, okay, now when y'all leave this session, you need to go do this, you need to go do that, you need to go, you can have a list of things you need to do, but if you're not that person, it'll never it'll stop whenever you get tired of doing you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

As soon as it is not a thought in your mind, or as soon as it's not priority, are yeah, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

So I understand that part of it, and some and some of it is I I feel like knowing if your partner is knowing if you're asking or the things that you're requiring is something realistically appropriate or even necessary, right? You know what I'm saying? Because you could want something and be valid in what you want, but is that even necessary? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Is it detrimental? Is it life or death? Is it really bothering the relationship? Is it hindering?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Yeah, but what what is it then you could could you tell us what is the thin line between yes, something bothers you, or if it's even necessary to be a bother?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Okay, so um I'll actually, and I want to talk about two things. Okay, so to you specifically to your question. What I go to in relationships is what are your psychological needs? Like needs that have to be met. I have to feel safe, right? I have to feel like this is a space where I am wanted, I have to feel desired, I have to feel um like I am respected, I have to feel that my worth and contribution matters. Those are needs. You're not in relationship if those needs are not being met. Right. Now, the distinction is some of us have learned maladaptive ways to get those needs met. So, in your relationship, what you may be asking for is not a realistic or valid or healthy way to get that need met, but that doesn't invalidate the need. So we all want to feel safe, close, connected, valued, appreciated. Seen, loved, cared for. How we do that matters. So if you're yelling at me, you need to pay more attention to me. The need is I feel abandoned. I feel like unsafe. But you yelling at somebody to do it probably is not the best way, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

So it's about having that self-awareness that maybe how you're communicating or trying to seek getting that need met is a reflection of that wound, of that trauma, of your unresolved stuff, right? That's your accountability piece. The other really, really important piece that I think so many of us just don't know because we just it's it's like information we don't have access to. When we're having communication, especially in our romantic relationships, especially when we're um operating from a place of vulnerability or like when we are having our core stuff triggered, a good deal of the time we're not even operating in the part of our brain that can actually hear, think through, strategize, respond. We are reacting from the part of our brain that is the threat center.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

So that part of our brain is unconscious, it doesn't have language, it's emotion-driven, it's also extremely uh, it moves faster than our words. So when I ask, is your partner really hearing what you're saying? If the way that you're doing it or whatever's showing up for him is triggering his stuff, he could be looking at you and he could be tracking the words, but it's not comprehending. I do this in couples therapy all the time, where one couple will say something and I'll ask the other person, what did you hear them say? Maybe it's like tell the old game of telephone. It's like gobity goop. And I'll that's not quite what she said. Can we try again? Right? Yeah. So most of the time in our real life, we're not slowing down enough to do that. And so if you are experiencing the same issue over and over again, if it feels like Groundhog's Day on the same conversation, then that's probably an indicator that the way that you are talking about it is not in a space where you're actually able to hear each other.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

No matter how articulate you are, you like I'm breaking it down, I'm whatever. If this part of the brain is online and this part is, it don't matter.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

So is that the difference between somebody that might be dismissive, avoiding, or in uh preoccupied, uh attachment to be insecure? Because once you hear it, even if it's your trigger, you can switch to let's high, let's rationalize it. Right, correct.

SPEAKER_04 24:46

And you say, okay, all right, I'm responding to old stuff, I'm responding to old hurts, I'm responding to how things happened last time. Let me stop doing that. Let me actually pay attention to this person in front of me and hear what they're saying.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So can I can you agree or disagree that if I'm I can switch to this part, the front part of my brain, and I'm listening and trying to come up with a comp with a resolution to the conflict, but the resolution that we're coming up with, it still uh hurts uh me. The part where you say the actual need, the need is still not uh being met. Is that uh a part for me to say, okay, you may have some unresolved trauma that you need to get rid of before you can even understand this. Also, you're using this part, but you're still not coming to a resolve because you still have that unmittel trauma that's going on that you haven't recognized for real.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

I think it's about both people being able to do that, right? Right. So I I think I would say there is a resolution until both people could do that, okay. And and so maybe, maybe a different way to think about it, maybe it's not full resolution, maybe it's about, well, let's work on this first part together.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, just hearing first. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:10

That makes sense. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Because okay, I was just gonna say, as you were saying that, I was thinking, like, what if it doesn't need a resolution per se? What if it just needs to be heard?

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Or I think that's a really, really great uh point T is that most of our core stuff, like we're never we're never getting rid of it. Right, right, right. So healing is a corkscrew. What happens is we start to see the behavior quicker, we know how to take care of ourselves quicker, we move through it quicker. But the same stuff gonna keep coming up over and over again. And so it especially when we're talking about our long-term romantic relationships, there's no fix, right? You you're gonna be different versions of you across the lifespan, across the relationship span, and they're gonna be different versions of them, but that core stuff is that core stuff. So the the work becomes first doing your own internal stuff. Nobody is ever excused, whether you five, 55, 85. You never excuse for owning your own shit, period. No matter what happened to you, no matter what the reason, the context, I can have all the compassion in the world, but you still are responsible for owning your own shit, right? Right. And we decide together that we will see the shit and confront it together. Yeah, it's not us against it's not me against you, it's us against it.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah, right. And um, I was just thinking when you were saying that too. I don't think it's so much that I think it's a resolve to it, but it is in a way because if I can recognize, and I'll give an example you so the need is to feel safe, right? Okay, or protected. If I'll give an example from my wedding. So when I got married, before I got married, my husband is the only boy of like three sibling girls and a single mom. So he was like their core, their everything, the man of the family, basically. And so when I came into the picture, it was like you trying to take you get what I'm saying? And so then we got married, they acted the food of my wedding, all these things, and he had a hard time separating from them. And I'm thinking, oh, it's evidently like what we're doing. What are we doing? Like, what you like, why is this a hard decision for you? So in that moment, I felt like I wasn't protected. So as I'm going to therapy, I'm realizing that yes, you are valid and feeling wanting to feel protected, but just because you say, Oh, don't go around your family, like how you were saying, that's not the way to get to being protected. Correct. So I think what I mean by resolve is we have to identify what we lack in order to help come to a healthy resolve. Yeah, yeah. Right? So it's not that I think that I'm gonna be fixed once he just does this, but it will make sense to you better what I'm trying to relate to you, if you also get the healing and you figure out that you can't be that protector to people that don't want to be protected or that are harmful to you. You know what I'm saying? So, but that's for him to unlock and be able to see that. But if you never see that or you never get that work done, I'm gonna always look, you always gonna be working from the back of your brain with me because you're always looking at like you trying to take me away from my family. Yeah, you're trying to separate, like you're not looking at it from a healthy way. Oh, my wife really feels unprotected. You know what I'm saying? So I think that it is a fixing thing, yes, but that's that's the accountability piece on his part. But it's a fixing that gotta come before you because you don't see that as a thing right now because like an individual fixing, like, you're not going to therapy and realizing that the things that you're trying to do are maladapted to your relationship because of whatever childhood trauma you might have experienced or whatever or adult child, I mean adulthood trauma you might experience, you're not gonna recognize that as even a trauma.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Right. I think that's why it's important to do therapy individually first, right first, and then do couples therapy because you do have to, like you said, even know what you're going in there for. Like what correct what when we start having these issues, it's because of something we both feel, something we both fear in the back of our mind happening to us again, or whatever the case may be. So I think it's very important for I just try to because I've I'm recently getting back into therapy too, and I kind of, you know, I don't want to try to push my ways on my partner and make him try to grow at the same speed. Because, like you said, once I committed to that relationship, I committed to how he was at that time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

So I can't, I can only be accountable for my growth over the years. If if he does grow with me, great job. Congratulations, you know what I mean. But if not, I have the choice to either accept him how he is or not. Yes. That that's like a middle ground to it.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

And I think what my what I was hearing too was that you have, I think what a lot of people do is is three things. So you can either you can either do three things, but I think a lot of people do like the second one. So the first one is to leave if you feel like, oh, this person is not for me, right? Or the love isn't there. Yeah. And then the second one is to try to change that person, which is the second one that I feel like a lot of people try to do, even me. I'm like, no, you gonna you need to do just do, do, do, do. And then the third one is to become the best version of yourself, and then think about whether you're gonna stay or leave later. Right, right. Because if you don't, then you leave one, you can leave the first one, you can do is leave. That's your decision to do, but will you run into that same person in a different font?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Right. The answer is yes, yes, yeah, exactly. So, so, and then can you change anybody?

SPEAKER_04 32:08

No, okay, so so let me uh let me tell you how I think about your two and three a little bit different. Okay, so and again, this is always in the context of a safe, physically, emotionally safe relationship, right? I'm not talking about where you're being exploited or actively harmed, right, right, abused, right? And some people know we ain't talking about that. Exactly. If he's going upside, go ahead and say but also there's a lot of emotional abuse that happens that people don't know. Financial abuse, yes, and people don't know because they've not experienced love in a way that has not felt transactional or conditional growing up, right? And that that I find that that happens a lot more um uh uh normally than actual physical abuse, right? That still exists for sure, right? But a lot of emotional abuse and manipulation happens, right? Right. Uh, but to to what do you do? So you cannot change anybody, right? Right. However, as you focus on yourself and be the best version of yourself, a person that is truly committed to you and and connected to you will eventually change. Because it's if you start moving and they are connected to you, they gotta start moving too. Right. I think where we go wrong is thinking, I'm gonna tell you what you need to do to be better first.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

I'm talking about I just woke up this morning doing that. Dude, you need to get off that phone. You're scrolling too early. But really, I'm telling myself this don't pick up that damn phone, Tia, because you know you want to scroll too. You want to mama him. Yes, Olivia.

SPEAKER_04 33:48

Correct. Nope. The best thing you could do is take care of yourself, right? And that allows you to then be there differently for them, but they will also decide like I can't keep showing up like this because I see her moving this way. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

It'll either be, I feel like it'll either be two things. It's getting too much, she's doing too much, or I need to do with her. Yes. And I need to do two.

SPEAKER_04 34:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Um, but I I like that we ended this one right there about what you can do, what you can do. Because oh wait, real quick, the third one.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

You said this, that was a second one, but what about the third one?

SPEAKER_04 34:24

You said stay or leave.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

You said get to your third, the third one would be the become your stay and become your best self, yeah, and then decide.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

Correct. And and here's the thing about really healthy, loving, long-term, sustainable relationships. You're making that choice all the time. Yeah, it's not a oh, because we've been together, we must be together. It's a I continue to choose this person every day, this work every day. Yeah, okay. So sometimes that also might run out. Yeah. Like we also tell ourselves, well, we got the kids or we've been together for this number of years. Like we say all the things, right? To sort of keep us complacent. Because my daughter is gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

I mean, like, I I I never say that, and my husband said, No, she probably will. But I never say that because I always want my goal for my daughter is because I only have a daughter right now. My goal is for her to be the woman that I desire to be, right? So if if if I'm not being the woman that I that I desire to be, she will see who I am and not who I desire to be. So with me staying with somebody that I'm obviously not happy with, you'll never see who I desire to be. So I'm always like, I don't care about doing it for the kids. Like, yes, but you do have to consider the kids because another thing that he told me, and I don't want to go back to this, but he was like, I told him how my daughter had once the past weekend told me how mama loves you so much. And I was like, Oh, okay, I love you too. And she was like, No, I don't think you really understand how I love you. And I was like, Oh, okay. And she was like, and I was like, but she loved, I told him in some up another conversation that she loved her daddy probably a lot more than she loved me. And he was like, just saying because she's like a daddy's girl, like she loves him, loves him. And so he was like, Well, think about it. If she told you that she loves you, and you she told you that you didn't even understand, yeah, you are like her world, and then you just told me that she probably loves him even more, he is also her world. So if those two worlds split, who do you think she's gonna blame? Herself. Herself, yeah, and so you do have to consider your kids and other things, but at to what extent? Exactly, you know, yes. So can you answer the to the audience? Is love enough?

SPEAKER_04 36:38

I think if it's love, then it is always everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I like that.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

If it's not, it's not love.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Okay, I like that. Okay, I like that. Yeah, and that's a good thing to end on because we're about to get into the bedroom for the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Okay, okay. Because love, well, love is six, and so is love, and I okay. Oh, okay. So is it not enough then?

SPEAKER_00 37:07

We're gonna get into it. We're gonna get into it. Okay. See y'all next week.