MyMaine Birth
MyMaine Birth is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine. From our state's biggest hospitals to Birth Center Births, and home births, every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated. Whether you are a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
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MyMaine Birth
124. The Free Birth Society Scam: Molly's Three Birth Stories and Her Experience with the Radical BirthKeeper School and MatriBirth Midwifery Institute
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Are you a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth? You’re in the right place!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Molly's Two Hospital Birth Stories on Martha's Vineyard Massachusetts
- Her Journey through the Radical Birthkeeper School
- The Beautiful Freebirth of her third baby
- Molly's experience with the FreeBirth Society's MatriBirth Midwifery Institute... errr MatriBirth Mentor Institute..
- ….and a whole lot more!
Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…
If you are ready to prepare for an autonomous birth experience, where you’re respected as the authority over your body and your baby… regardless of where you plan on birthing -
CLICK HERE for 10% off the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course!
Not sure where to start? I’ve got you covered! Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider. Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider.
Limited Birth Options on Martha's Vineyard
Mollyhome birth options are very limited . So I was listening to the podcast , you know , getting all the ads for the Radical Birth Keeper School , all the like open house zoom calls with past RBK grads . I was doing all those and then I signed up thinking I would still be a doula , I would still do hospital births , but I wanted to be an option . That was just my goal , Like let's have more options . But then I think when I was taking the Radical Birth Keeper School which at the time that I did it was a three month long program and we had two or three two hour calls a week is a lot more than I think it is now . But when I was doing it , there really became I want to say sense , but not like a sense it's . There really became I want to say sense , but not like a sense it's being a doula was made to seem like very evil and that you were just complicit in women's torture and abuse and it made me feel like being a doula was a bad thing .
AngelaI'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer , experienced doula , childbirth educator and your host here on the my Maine Birth podcast . This is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine , from our state's biggest hospitals to birth center births and home births . Every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated . Whether you're a soon to be mom , a seasoned mother or simply interested in the world of birth , these episodes are for you . Welcome back . You're listening to episode 124 of my Main Birth .
AngelaThis week I'm doing something a little bit different and I'm chatting with some of the friends that I met at the Free Birth Society's MatriBirth Midwifery Institute , or what started as the MatriBirth Midwifery Institute . I do want to say in the beginning of all of these episodes that I very much support a woman's right to birth where , how and with whoever she chooses . These episodes are more to highlight the separation of the beautiful idea of free birth , which can be a perfectly fine option for many women , from the ideologies that are promoted by the company , the Free Birth Society . Today's birth story guest is Molly , and she is here to share all about her three beautiful birth stories and her journey through the Radical Birth Keeper School and the MatriBirth Midwifery Institute . All right , hi Molly . Welcome to my Main Birth .
AngelaHi so , to get started , would you share a little bit about you and your family ?
MollyYeah , so we live on Martha's Vineyard , massachusetts . I was a flower farmer for 10 years before having kids and taught some yoga . Having kids , I just stopped flower farming and was just teaching yoga and then , after my second son , then I got into birth work and did a doula training my partner's a commercial fisherman , and that , I feel like , is a job and a whole lifestyle . My parents live on the island , the partner's family lives on the island siblings living on the island so we have a nice big family here , which is really nice . I can't imagine raising kids without extended family .
AngelaAmazing , yeah , so nice to have everybody close together . Yeah , amazing , yeah , so nice to have everybody close together .
MollyYeah Would you share a little bit about , like what your views were on birth growing up , maybe like some stories that you heard . Plug my ears and be like I don't want to hear that . Yeah , and my mom just had three unmedicated small hospital births and she was like it's intense and you just do it . That's just like what women are made to do you just do it and then , as soon as the baby's out , it's over and that's it . So I wasn't that interested in birth before , would you say you were maybe like fearful of birth , or what were your feelings ?
Mollyaround it .
MollyI think maybe not so much fear as much as like being grossed out , I think , at the time , like being grossed out , I think at the time I was like that's like pushing a watermelon out ,
From Birth Aversion to Birth Fascination
Mollythat's crazy , and I just didn't want to think about it . And so , as I said , I was flower farming , which was beautiful , just out , in a giant field of flowers , with you know six or 10 other women , all of which were older than me , at least to begin with , and you know they ten other women , all of which were older than me , at least to begin with , and you know they were having babies , and it was just so beautiful . And one woman that I worked with was like you need to just watch a birth video , because I'd never seen one . And I remember watching my first birth video and being like that . That was intense , that was amazing , and I'm probably never gonna watch another birth video again . Flash forward , you know , now I probably watch a birth video every single day .
MollySo then , when I got pregnant with my first , first son , I was 24 . And I wanted to have a home birth , but on the island there was only one home birth midwife at the time , who that I knew we worked on the same farm when we were younger and she was pregnant . We're having our babies like a couple months apart , so she wasn't available and then the only other option was getting a midwife from off island to come and you'd have to find them housing . It just sounded like too much for me to wrap my head around at the time to figure that out . So I had my first son at the small hospital on the island and when I was pregnant with him I really didn't want to do any research on birth . I didn't want to psych myself out . So the only thing I did to prepare for that birth was my mother-in-law gave me a really old copy of Spiritual Midwifery and I didn't even read it , I just would look at the pictures a lot , and that book has some really beautiful birth pictures , just like ecstatic , joyful faces . And it was a very smooth pregnancy , very smooth birth .
MollyAnd we went in and I was like man , I might , I might be in labor . I was having , you know , losing my mucus plug and I was like I might be in labor . I was having , you know , losing my mucus plug and I was like I might be in labor . Let's just go get checked . And I went in and they're like you're six centimeters and like you're gonna stay . So my partner went back , got our stuff and we just labored alone in the hospital , just me and him , and there's a birth pool , and it felt really doable , which surprised me .
MollyAnd I remember I think this is like the moment I fell in love with birth . I had gone a cervical check and I was like nine centimeters . I was like , oh , we're like there , this is like almost over and it hasn't been bad , it's been great . And I had this realization . I was just I . All I've been doing is breathing and moving my body intuitively and I was like this is yoga , this is what I've been doing my whole life , this is just the world's best yoga practice , and that one is when I really fell in love with birth .
MollyAnd then , after he was born , I started to research birth and I started to become obsessed with birth podcasts and listening to birth stories , asking women their birth stories . So that was a big pivot for how I thought about and felt about birth . I went from being kind of like grossed out , didn't want to hear about it , to just being completely fascinated and I just like saw every woman differently . I feel like I saw the world . I was like you gave birth . That's incredible . I was like everyone that has a kid gave birth . My mind was like blown . I was . That is like the most amazing thing ever and everyone does it .
AngelaYeah , it's so cool . It really really is . I love that story . That's such a beautiful story and yeah , it's like wait a minute , it's not . It's not gross , it's not all that bad . This is so awesome . Yeah , yeah . So how was your postpartum with him ?
MollySo awesome , yeah , yeah . So how was your postpartum with him ? It was pretty good . I mean , I was 25 when he was born . I just turned 25 . And , like most people , when you have your first you don't prepare for postpartum . But I feel like I was just young and healthy . So I healed pretty quickly and right away was kind of wanting to go out and like do all the mom things with my baby . And then at three months I would say I crashed and I was just like called my parents , like you need to come watch the baby , like I need to sleep . So the sleep deprivation really caught up with me then and then I started to slow down and nap when he napped and um , yeah , but it was great , I on the island .
MollyThere are so many resources for babies and toddlers . There's like different free play groups every single day , so it was fun . It was fun to like become a mom and get to do all those things . They had a they still have a mother's group called Baby's First Year and back then they did it twice a week and I went twice a week for a year . So I was just love chatting with other moms and hearing other people's birth stories .
AngelaYeah , finding that community is so special , yeah , so how did you find out you were pregnant for the second time ?
MollyWe planned to start trying again when my first son was two and then the second cycle got pregnant and , yeah , there wasn't really much , much to it . Um , with both my pregnancies , I will say , I was super sick . My mom was sick in her pregnancies and my sister was sick in her pregnancies for the first 20 weeks . So , being sick with the first kid , I had to like quit my job and just spend three months in the dark . And then with the second kid , you know , I'm like going to toddler art class and puking and I'm just like it's okay . Okay , I would carry a mason jar with me in between my legs when I drove because I would puke , as I was , and my two year old was was like in the back , like I need my puke pot , mommy , and then he would fake puke . But other than that , the pregnancy went really well . Um ,
Journey Through First Two Births
Mollyagain , there was no home birth midwife on the island and I was way more confident about giving birth this time .
MollyI spent the last two years listening to birth stories and I was like , yeah , we'll just go back to the hospital again . And he also just had a quick , easy , very straightforward hospital birth . Very straightforward hospital birth . Um , but this time before we went to the hospital , I was kind of laboring in the tub a little bit and I just had the thought like if I could do whatever I wanted to do which obviously I could have , what I would would have wanted to I was like what if I just stayed here ? What if I just never got out of the bathtub and I just stayed , I was home alone If I just stayed home alone in the bathtub . But instead of doing that , we packed up and went to the hospital . He was born a few hours later and the hospital didn't do anything wrong .
MollyI was just a little annoyed this time . I was like don't do that , I don't want that . I wasn't scared of birth , I guess . So I was just kind of annoyed by all the unnecessary things that they were doing , and it wasn't like a bad experience , I just didn't want to be there . So at that birth , after that birth , I was like well , the next one is definitely going to be born at home . And I think during that labor with my second son , I had this seed of like I don't actually want anyone there with me . Had you discovered free birth society at this point ? Yeah . So I second son was born in November 2019 . So I started listening to the podcast probably around 2018 , after the first season . I probably started during the second season of the podcast and I love the stories you know , and so I guess I did have that seed in my head already , like before I went into labor with my second son , but I wasn't even really connecting the two . I wasn't like , oh , next time I want to have a free birth . I was just like what I would like , based on what I know about myself and how I feel the most comfortable is , I would like to be alone , cause I like a pretty athletic person , I really like movement is my medicine and I like running , but I only like running by myself and I love doing yoga , just totally alone . And I know that for me , in order to like go deep , I need to be totally alone , to be totally alone .
MollyAfter my second son was born , at his birth , my partner's cousin had just done a doula training and she volunteered to be our doula for free and we were like , yeah , sure , great Things went really well the first time , but there was like a couple of times my partner had to like go back and get our stuff and I got an IV , the hep lock , put in when he was gone and it took like two hours .
MollyThat was probably the worst part of the labor was that they couldn't get the needle in . They couldn't get the needle in , and at the first birth he really wanted a cup of coffee but he couldn't go get one . So I was like sure , like she can be our doula and she can just like get a cup of coffee , and like there's an annoying nurse , she can kind of like keep them out of our space , and I didn't really think much about it . But then after the birth I was like she didn't have to do much , but just having her there , having somebody else kind of in our team that didn't work for the hospital and that was just there for us , made a huge difference , and so that made me start to think about becoming a doula and then I did a really great doula training in Western Mass .
MollyIt was a very small four-day training with a home birth midwife and after that I like volunteered to do some free births and I did a few free births and fell in love like after I was going home after the first birth . You're just like this , is it ? It doesn't get better than this . I cannot imagine anything that would be more fulfilling to do , and so from that point on I was like totally sold . That was it . And then I started to look into Free Birth Society's Radical Birth Keeper School , because on on the island there's just not many options . We have a very small hospital . It's more like a birth center I would say . They do c-sections but they don't do anything high risk and there's only one home birth midwife and she travels . So people are very , very limited in their options . Nobody wants to go off to give birth and home birth options are very limited . So I was listening to the podcast , you know , getting all the ads for the Radical Birth Keeper
Exploring the Radical Birth Keeper School
MollySchool , all the open house Zoom calls with past RBK grads . I was doing all those and then I signed up , thinking I would still be a doula , I would still do hospital births , but I wanted to be an option . That was just my goal . Let's have more options .
MollyBut then I think when I was taking the Radical Birth Keeper School , which at the time that I did it was a three-month long program and we had two or three two-hour calls a week , it was a lot more than I think it is now , but when I was doing it , there really became , I want to say , sense , but not like a sense . It's . Being a doula was made to seem like very evil and that you were just complicit in women's torture and abuse and it made me feel like being a doula was a bad thing , like you're heroing and you're just , you know , holding a woman down while she's being raped , as Emily says . I think my views have changed a lot , or maybe not changed , but just gone back to what they were before . So you know , I like took down on my Instagram page it was like deleted doula . And then I was a radical birth keeper and you know people would ask me to go to their hospital birth and I'd be like I don't go to the hospital and now I really don't think that my personal opinion on birth should matter to anyone but myself like my views on birth don't matter . When I'm working with a woman , all that matters are her views and what she wants . My personal opinion only matters in my births .
MollyYeah , I then was like working as a birth keeper , doing coaching and attending births , and so I did the radical birther program in 2022 , spring 2022 . Then I signed up for the Lighthouse . I was in the Lighthouse for three years . I did the Blood Mysteries School , which was great with Kristen and Nancy . There was a lot of content in that program because they created it . I went to the Matriarch Rising Festival in 2023 . And then I got pregnant with my third son .
AngelaWhen you went to Matriarch Rising , did you go with your kids ?
Mollygo with your kids or no . I kind of thought about it a little bit . I drove and it was a long drive , so I kind of played around with the idea and then I , once I got there , I was like , oh , thank god I didn't bring them . Um , at the time my kids were like I don't , three and six or something , or maybe I could have brought them . They were young enough that I could have brought them . I went there and I did not see any little boy over a year and a half old .
MollyIt wouldn't have been the right vibe , like they would have been sneaking into the woods to like chop a tree down and yeah . So I didn't bring them , I just went by myself , which was like the first time I'd been away from them for a night and I was gone for 10 days Whirlwind trip . But when I was there I kind of felt like the whole thing was just like marketing for the next years . You know there's lots of photographers , lots of people taking videos for social media , but it was nice to meet women that I'd met through the Radical Birth Keeper School and through the Blood Mystery School and in the Lighthouse . It was nice to meet women that I'd only seen through the blood mystery school and in the lighthouse , so it's nice to meet women that I'd only seen through the phone yeah , yeah , exactly what were your thoughts after leaving the festival ?
Mollynothing really too enlightening . It was a little underwhelming .
AngelaI think so was that the first time you started to kind of see like the free birth Society and like a little bit of a new light .
MollyNo , I would say that even when I signed up for the Radical Birth Keeper School , I was not super enchanted by Emily and Yolanda super enchanted by Emily and Yolanda , so I wasn't really surprised by how things seemed a little like disingenuine .
AngelaYeah , so did you give birth to your third baby before you started MMI , or what was the timeline there ?
MollyI signed up for MMI like a few weeks before he was born . Sign up was like May 20th and he was born June 15th .
AngelaOh , my goodness , okay . So when did you find out you were pregnant for the third time ? And , yeah , like , what were your thoughts in choosing your care when you found out ?
MollySo before I was even got pregnant with him , I knew I would have a free birth . I was like deep in the world , deep at that point . So that was just a given , that was like not a thought that needed , that I needed to have , like I knew that I wanted to birth alone so how was that looking ?
Mollyit was , you know , pretty good . I had two other kids that were keeping me busy . I , luckily , was not quite as sick as I was with the other two . I was only sick for like 12 weeks and I was teaching yoga and like hadn't told anyone I was pregnant yet . So it was like all my classes were just a little easier than they used to be . But yeah , it was good . It was a really nice , easy pregnancy . It was really nice to just fully listen to myself in pregnancy , you know , like doing things like eating raw oysters and sushi not a big deal at all , and I knew , you know I live on an island , like I know the fish is good but just doing things that maybe I would have second guessed myself about previously . I was not listening to anybody else's opinion , I was just doing what felt right for me . I was staying active and eating whatever I wanted to eat , wanted to eat . It was a great pregnancy .
MollyI was seeing a craniosacral therapist that I'd been seeing since I was . I started seeing him when I was pregnant with my eldest son and my sister's an acupuncturist . So I had some appointments with her and when I was like still deep in being sick , I saw a naturopath and I got IV fluids with B vitamins and that was really nice , like I feel like if you stay hydrated you don't get as sick , and just getting the IV fluids I felt good for like two days after that throughout my pregnancy . And that I was spending a lot of time thinking about was that I'm RH negative . And I was spent a lot of time researching and thinking about , if I wanted to , how would I do that if I was free birthing ? And so I read Sarah Wickham's book Auntie D Explained , and I listened to some podcasts and did some research and I really was just going back and forth on it until after he was born , asking about it in the lighthouse , you know , wanting to hear other people's what they did .
MollyAnd I ended up calling the OBGYN's office and telling them that I was having a home birth , that I was pregnant and I was going to hire a midwife . And they're like well , what midwife are you hiring ? And I'm like well , I'm not going to tell you that . And they're like okay , well , yeah , you can have a home birth . But if anything goes wrong and you come to the hospital , we're putting you on a helicopter and we're flying you to the mainland . And I'm like , okay , well , if I come in because something's wrong , like it would be something really wrong and you probably would have to put me on a helicopter and fly me there Like I'm not going to come in unless I need to go on a helicopter . And they're like , okay , well , we just had to say that .
MollyAnd then I was talking to them about , you know , I'm working with the home birth midwife . They obviously can't give me the RhoGAM shot . And they're like , well , you'd have to establish care with us . And I'm like , well , I've , you know , been a patient in the past . You have all my information . I'm not going to come and do an hour and a half intake . Either we make it easy or I'm just not going to get it . And like this is something that you are saying I need , but I don't feel like I need it . So , unless it's easy , I'm just not going to do it .
MollyAnd there was a lot more to it than this . It was like first I had to talk to a nurse and I'm like I know you can't answer my questions Like I want to speak to this doctor because I know he's the only one that can make this happen , and it was just kind of interesting to not be aggressive or defensive and just be like this is what I want and this is how I'm willing to do it , and if you can't do it this way , I'm just not going to do it and like that's fine . And eventually they were like , okay , we can do it . They just kind of needed me to say , okay , I understand , I'm not going to do it that way , but I will do it this way .
MollySo they kind of knew we ended up having it that after I gave birth you're supposed to get the road game shot within 72 hours of giving birth . Um , that if I ended up deciding I wanted it , I would just call the office and they would get me in for an appointment that day . Call the office and they would get me in for an appointment that day . So I didn't I still was just going back and forth . I did end up getting the shot two days after he was born and it was super chill . I went into the office with my partner and my oldest son . I had the baby in the baby carrier the whole time . We were in and out in 15 minutes Like I walked in , got the shot and left . I didn't have to do anything . It was super easy .
AngelaThat's awesome , that's so accommodating , that really , and I think that's one of the biggest things . Like when you're listening to the podcast and you're in the memberships , it's like don't do anything with the medical system , otherwise all of these bad things will happen , and it's like well , is that ?
Mollytrue , maybe , yes , in some cases it absolutely can be , but in a lot of cases it you know it's not and it's totally fine . So , yeah , and especially if you go into it like they're gonna attack me , they're gonna be rude , they're not going to be helpful , how dare they , after you hear all these things , like you're gonna go in defensive ? And if you go in defensive and aggressive , that's how people are gonna come back towards you .
MollySo I'm just like killing with kindness and I got kindness in return yeah , exactly and yeah , and I really didn't make up my mind until two days after giving birth and what . What ended up I was like I'm not going to regret getting the road game shot . I got it with my other kids . I never had any sort of side effects or anything , and but there's a chance I would regret not getting it . So for me , not getting it , so for me , that was my decision and I don't think there's any right decision . The more you research the Rogam shot , the more it's like we don't know enough really to make an educated decision . Because there hasn't been enough research on it . It's kind of unethical to do the research . So it's really , I think , just a personal decision that everybody has to make for themselves .
AngelaYeah , absolutely so . You signed up for MMI just before your youngest was born . What were sort of your thoughts in wanting to sign up for that program at that point ?
Mollyfor you yeah Well , I knew that the program was going to start like not super long after I'd have my third baby and I thought it would be a really great way to spend my time in that first year postpartum , like I'm going to be home a lot . I knew from RBK that it was a really easy program to do on my phone , like I can put the baby in the carrier and I can listen to the videos . I can do everything from my phone . I just knew that the way it was set up was convenient and
Getting Removed from the Midwifery Institute
MollyI was hoping that it would be a step up from the radical birthkeeper school . Like I was thinking it was going to be the next level , more in depth , and I was thinking , because of their marketing , that it was going to be really well done . Spoiler alert it was way worse Than RBK . Way worse than RBK , way worse than the blood mystery school and all my own opinion , but also worse than the complete guide to free birth yeah .
AngelaSo when you started going through the program , at what point did you start to be like , oh , what did I do ?
Mollywell it started with . The first three months were all just the tools , which is really just Emily teaching something that somebody else created , what the Conscious Leadership Group created , going through that book and doing their activities . I'm not a huge fan of the tools . I find there's definitely benefit in them , but we'd already gone over the tools in RBK . It was kind of a more in-depth refresher but I was like come on , let's get to the good stuff . And in there there were some resources , but all the resources that they provided were just the conscious leadership groups resources with like an MMI logo .
MollyBut then once the birth quarter started , that's when I was like , oh , this is thrown together . They're making this up as they go , they're recording these videos as they go . There are no resources . Um , there's no visuals , no handouts . It was all over the place . So it was in that quarter that I was like , oh , this feels like a scam , like this is not well done . I kept saying to myself and to my partner . I was like if only they put as much time and effort into the course curriculum as they did in the marketing materials , then it could have been an okay program . But they put no effort into the course but they put no effort into the course .
AngelaYeah , it was like they're selling the course , and then we'll just see how things go as we go .
MollyYeah , and then it's like you bought the course , we have your money , we won't give you a refund . We have it in writing that we don't give refunds . So what's anybody supposed to do ? All they need to do is have good marketing . They don't even need to deliver a good course .
Angelathey already had everybody's money yeah , it was intense seeing the course lacking so much in any real knowledge , and then the live calls also seemed very just unorganized , unprepared and just kind of rambling .
MollyYeah , oh yeah , rambling about their own lives . You know , like let's just get 60 women to listen to you rambling about whatever's going on in their life at the time , and and they weren't very kind I think one of the things that I probably ended up getting kicked out of the school for was that throughout my time in the Free Bear Society , I really noticed Emily like using the tools against women , because that was like her language , you know , and she was teaching it . So nobody can speak and use and manipulate the tools for their own like benefit as well as she can . So she , I think , would use the tools to gaslight and manipulate women . That's just my own personal opinion and what I thought I was seeing , but it didn't feel good to witness .
AngelaYeah , it sort of was more of like what you said that you had felt when you had first started the RBK school with the we . I'm a doula , but like all of these things , it's like doula is a bad thing , you know , and it's just more of that kind of like mean girl energy , I guess I feel it kind of keeps coming up for me .
MollyOh , yeah , yeah , mean girl , energy and Emilia , you know , I used to kind of defend her in a way where people would be like , oh , she's like a mean girl and I'd be like , yeah , and she's like open about it , at least she like admits that . You know she'll be like , yeah , mean girl is one of my personas . But then more and more I started to realize in a lot of different ways they'll kind of out themselves and then use that to their benefit , especially even with , like people call us a cult and yeah , we're , you know , like people will use the language that people are then going to use against them to their own benefit , then going to use against them to their own benefit .
AngelaIt's like say the word before anybody else does . Yeah , totally so . How were you , how are things looking Like ? What were your thoughts as the year went on ?
MollyWell , it was all kind of quick . I'd never been on Reddit before and I think somebody in the there was a WhatsApp group chat with students from the course maybe like 30 or 40 students and I think somebody in there commented about it and they're like I don't know , have you seen what's on Reddit ?
AngelaSo I went on Reddit and started reading it a little bit , but before that even the WhatsApp group was created because women were all starting to talk about how lacking in content the program was . I think was how we had started talking Right . And then yeah , so you saw the link . Yeah , yeah .
MollySo even you know , before that , towards the end of the birth course , I remember we had a pod call and we were supposed to put this together because we didn't talk about the hormones of birth in the course at all . And people were like I didn't learn all this stuff , like when was I supposed to have learned that ? Because I don't know that . Learn that , because I don't know that . And so there started to be a lot of discussion among students about how lacking the course material was and yeah , discussion in the WhatsApp group and yeah , maybe Reddit was posted in there . I saw that .
MollyAnd then on a Wednesday there was a Zoom call for students that wanted to talk about the school and how lacking the course curriculum was , and I was on that call with probably 30 other students , so I was like at least a third of the students in the school and a lot of people were speaking up . I was one of them and I said some things in the WhatsApp chat . Like there were a few students that organized the call and I was saying , like good for you , I'm not surprised that the course material is lacking , like , but good for you . And then we had class on Friday and after class on Friday I got an email that I had been removed from the course did you get something along the lines lines of what you're not a good fit , or was it like something ?
AngelaOh yeah ?
MollyIt was basically , I think , like a copy and paste of what the other women had gotten and , you know , I said like a few things . Looking back I'm like I can't even remember exactly what I said , but I didn't feel like anything that I said was worse than what the other . You know , a lot of other women in the call were saying , and the three women that organized the call , I guess , were kicked out . And I was kicked out and at first I was like , is this a mistake ? Did they think I helped organize the call ? I was just shocked , I didn't understand what , and it was like a copy and paste of the email that they'd gotten .
MollySo there's no explanation of like you said this in the WhatsApp chat . That was , you know , supposed to be a private chat . So somebody else in the school must have taken a screenshot of something that I said or , you know , made a screen recording of the WhatsApp call and sent that to Emily , and my first reaction was just like confused , shock . I immediately mailed them back , like , replied to the email kicking me out , like I am so sorry , please explain to me what I did , and I never , ever , got a response to this day .
AngelaAnd wow , I was just for RBK , after you had paid to be in the memberships , after you had paid for blood mystery school , after you had paid for MMI .
MollyNot even a response just totally erased , deleted from everything , lost the course curriculum for MMI , for RBK , for blood mystery school , lost access to the lighthouse , like everything . And eventually I did the math and over a four year period I paid $20,000 . And I didn't even get an email responding telling me why I was kicked out .
AngelaWhen , ultimately , we're like in this group , trying to be like , are we ever going to learn any information about midwifery or around midwifery , which this course is called the Matriberth Midwifery Institute , and the tagline was the world's leading sovereign midwifery school , which it did not turn out to be .
MollyRight . And so the first 24 hours I was in shock . Then I was like if I was in any other program , any other school and I was discussing the course curriculum , I was like upset with the content , maybe upset with the way that the teachers were treating other students , there would have been a conversation , you know , there would have been some sort of conversation and I doubt I would have been kicked out without a conversation and a warning Because I was in the call . I was like I'm not going to ask for a refund , I'm not going to do any of this stuff , I think I said in the call . I was like I'm not so concerned about what has already happened , I'm more concerned about how the school is going to be going forward , because there had been four mentors , four of the like teachers basically in the school had left .
AngelaRight at the same time . So there was a lot of unfolding . They didn't leave like one and the other , like they all left at the same time and there was no explanation . They were just like don't ask why they all left like just keep going .
MollyYeah , so that was like a part of why we were having . The call was like why did you know ? It was like four teachers , maybe a speaker . Why are all these women that are like part of the leadership in the school all leaving at the same time ? That was a part of the leadership in the school all leaving at the same time . That was a part of the discussion that we were having and that's when I was like , oh , maybe this is a little culty , like if I was just in a school and I'd question the teachers and the curriculum , I wouldn't have been kicked out , totally erased without any explanation or warning at all .
AngelaYeah , so what were your thoughts after that , as everything else started to unfold and more women started to leave the community ?
MollyYeah , it was a lot . So in the lighthouse that I was in for three years . So in the lighthouse that I was in for three years after my son was born my free birth son was born there were so many stillbirths in the membership and I was like what is going on ? It was just one after the other , two in one week and it started to be the same story kind of playing out . It started to be really hard to log into the membership and witness the same time that I was in MMI and the course curriculum was just , you know , not even there . There were all these stillbirths and women getting kicked out of the lighthouse . So there's a lot of different things going on within free birth society at the same time .
AngelaYeah , yeah . So to back it up a little bit , after you first signed up , you gave birth to your youngest . How are things like kind of looking leading up to when , like your labor started and how was your birth ?
MollyYeah , his birth was amazing . I like I wouldn't have wanted to change a single thing . I loved it . I thought he was going to be born
Spontaneous Free Birth on Bathroom Floor
Mollyat like 37 weeks , so my first was born at 39 . My second was born at 38 . So I was like , all right , we're trending 37 now .
MollyAnd there's a common saying in the birth world that like expect your pregnancy to go on longer . I didn't do that and it actually kind of helped me because when I was in like late third trimester , I was like you know , like four more weeks , it's just four more weeks , nope , no problem . And then , as each week came in , when I was like , whatever , I can keep doing this , I started to feel like I was living in a bit of groundhog's day . I didn't want to leave the house ever . Roundhog's day , I didn't want to leave the house ever . So I was just doing the same thing every day , like the kids would go to school , I would like go for a long walk , take a bath , pick some flowers , just like eat , sleep , bathe , yeah .
MollyAnd I just thought I was gonna give birth at any time and I didn't want to leave the house . I felt really out of it , like I felt like I was drugged and I didn't feel safe driving . There was one day where I drove the kids to school they go to like a little homeschool group and I made my husband come pick me up . So so I was like I don't feel safe driving . And then I was just cozy at home . I had a friend came for a week . She was going to like hang out with the kids when I gave birth , but she came and then had to leave .
MollyHe ended up being born at 41 weeks and like a week before he was born I lost some bloody mucus plug and thought , oh , he'll be born and that didn't happen . And I was having like intense you know , braxton Hicks , we'll call him because that's what people know but just like uterine tightening since 26 weeks and I was just having those consistent uterine tightenings all pregnancy so I never really thought anything about that . And then on June 14th I had plans with my mom to get a pedicure . My sister in one of her births she went , you know , a bit past her 40-week date and my mom took her to get a pedicure and she went into labor when she was getting her nails done and like left the salon and was like I think I'm in labor and had her baby like an hour and 15 minutes later . And so my sister and I always joke that my mom really wants to recreate that . So she was like come on , like let's go get a pedicure , and I was like all right , and then I just really wasn't feeling it . I was pretty tired . I made my partner text my mom and text my mom and cancel , which I think should have been like a clear sign because I just like couldn't even have the mental capacity to text her that I didn't want to go . So I made him like text her or call her to cancel . And then not long after that I went pee and had more bloody mucus and I was like , oh yeah , that's like why I couldn't cancel , I guess .
MollyAnd then around 5.30 pm I went for a walk and I went out . We have like a big gate around our house and I went out one way and started walking and I made it like 150 feet and was just had all this like blood and wet fluid . And I'd walked by , a neighbor Turned around . I went back to our house , I changed my shorts , I put a pad on and then I was like I can't go back out that way because I'm gonna see our neighbor and he's gonna be like why is she wearing ? So I went out the other way . I went for like a nice walk all by myself . It was really beautiful .
MollyI got home I picked some flowers . I was having like uterine tightenings on the walk , but I'd been having those so I wasn't thinking anything about it , they just felt very Bradsden Hicks like . But every time I would have one I'd be like , yes , please give me more . I want more , I want more of this . Keep it coming . And then I got home and I picked some roses for the altar . I'd been at a birth altar and I just kept replacing the flowers for like a month . I just kept having to replace the flowers and I was like what flowers are gonna be on this altar when I give birth ? So it was like the lilacs and then the false indigo and ended up being roses when he was born . And then I got home , picked the flowers , set up the altar , just kept having more bloody mucus and fluids coming out .
MollyAnd my partner and kids wanted to go fishing that night . They wanted to go out squidding and they had had this plan all day that they were going to go out . And they were going to go out afterding and they had had this plan all day that they were gonna go out and they were gonna go out after dinner . But at dinner time I was like you guys can't go out and they're like why ? I was like just don't , you can't , um . And they're like fine , I wasn't telling them anything . That was going on , not consciously , just like protectively of my own space and mind .
MollyAnd then at 930 , I read the kids to sleep and at 10 , I went to lay down in bed to go to sleep and I was just tossing and turning , couldn't find a comfortable position , and about an hour and a half later , at 1140 , I was like I really haven't slept at all . I've just been like rolling around in bed , getting in all sorts of like weird shapes with my pillows , trying to get comfortable . And then I was was like let me just see like I'm having all these uterine tightening , so let me just see if there's like a pattern to this . So then I did some like half-assed timing and I had about five sensations five minutes apart . I was like , okay , this seems like maybe these are real , but I still like wasn't uncomfortable or anything . I was like if this is actually labor , I want to go eat something . So I went downstairs and I made like a gluten-free bagel with ghee and I put dates and salt on it and I was like this is the most delicious thing I've ever eaten and I will put Bridgerton on on my phone , which was just like fun new season .
MollyAnd I started watching it and was just watching me and my bagel and then , without even realizing it , I kept pausing the show . Every time I'd have a sensation , because I just needed to focus , I couldn't listen to the show . And then at 12 30 my middle son woke up . He wakes up in the night a lot just to go pee and he really wanted me to be with him . And at first I was like tried to get my husband who's like no , I just want you . I was like , all right , it'll just be easier , I'll just go and sit with him . So I was like sitting next to him and still just like moving around . I just can't get comfortable . Still like in denial , I guess . But not nothing was painful , just a little tightening .
MollyAnd I was trying to think at that time . I was like you know , because as a doula you want to be able to explain to people like what do early labor sensations feel like ? I was like what's the difference between this and Braxton Hicks ? And the only way I can describe it is like this feels a little more sour , you know , a little more like in my back . My back muscles feel like sour . I was like I don't know what that means , but that that's what it feels like , kind of like when you're getting your period just a little like sour in my back . So I sat with him for a little bit . He fell back asleep and then I was like okay , like this is probably labor , but this could run forever . So we'll just see .
MollyI pulled out I had like a bin full of birth supplies , I lit a few candles and then I had to poop . So I went , I pooped and then I was like all right , like still , this could go on forever , but I'm not going to be able to fall asleep right now . So I ran a bath . So at 1.15 in the morning I got in the bath and I put on some birth affirmations that were pretty corny and I was kind of like laughing at myself for listening to them . That were pretty corny , and I was kind of like laughing at myself for listening to them .
MollyAnd but then I was going back and forth between sitting on the toilet and pooping and being in the tub and then my partner came in at one point because he heard the bath running and like probably heard me listening to something , and he just came in . He brought me like my really giant thought water bottle , put it down next to me and he just sat down on the floor in the bathroom , which I thought was perfect , like he didn't need to say anything , he just kind of was like there . But still I was like I don't really need you here right now , you can go back to sleep . So he went back to bed and just lay there . He was like I can't go back to sleep , so he just lay in bed . And then I moved to the toilet and had a really strong contraction and was like I can't sit on the toilet . So I got onto hands and knees on the floor in the bathroom and my water broke .
MollyAnd then I , right after that happened , like as it was happening , I reached my fingers up like into my yoni just a little bit , and I could feel a part of my cervix just like stretched rubbery , almost like dolphin skin . It was so cool . And then in one second I could feel his head like a finger's length away . And then he just dropped four inches down right onto my perineum and it was so intense . It went from like just boom . I could feel his head drop and I was like oh shit . I said oh shit . I don't remember it , but my partner heard it . He heard me , I guess , like moaning when I was on the toilet .
MollySo he went downstairs to the kitchen , washed his hands because he was like I should have clean hands , there's a baby coming and I said , oh shit , I felt so much pressure on my perineum . I went from hands and knees to just being on my knees , with my knees a little closer together , and had a hand kind of holding his head , kind of relieving some of the pressure , and then he just flew out . His whole body just flew out . I had a hand on his head already and then I just kind of brought my other hand under his body and immediately brought him onto my chest and was like , oh my God , you're here . I thought that was going to be so much longer . That was so quick because I had this moment like right before he was born . That now , I know , is transition , where I was just like this is intense , I don't know how much longer I can do this for . Which was like the only time that I was like wow , and then I had that oh shit of like he is going to rip my perineum , but then he just flew out like no , pushing nothing , he was just there . And then , in hindsight , of course , I was like , oh , that was so easy , like because I mentally was prepared to do that for six more hours , to do that for six more hours . And then he was just there and just I was as I was like , oh my God , you're here .
MollyMy partner opens up the door , because he was just right outside the door and he was just perfect . He was adorable , he was perfect . One funny thing was that he didn't open up his eyes for like an hour , an hour and a half , after he was born . So my partner and I were just looking at him and we're like he's perfect . He just hasn't opened up his eyes , so like he might not have eyeballs , but he's perfect . Other than that , like we don't even care . He did eventually open up his eyes . We don't even care . He did eventually open up his eyes , but he was just , you know , perfect . And so he was born at 1 52 AM . And then I was just kind of like sitting on the bathroom floor . I had one candle in the bathroom . We kind of turned on a nightlight so we could see him a little more . We're just hanging out watching him .
MollyAnd then my placenta was born years ago after my second son was born . My second son was four and a half when my third son was born , I got this cast iron enamel bedpan from a thrift store and I was like this would be perfect for a home birth . So I put that onto some yoga blocks and I sat on it and birthed the placenta on there . And then the placenta was born at 2.35 , so like 45 minutes after he was born . And again , there's just not much bleeding , anything . There was nothing that made me ever feel scared at all . Everything went as well as it possibly could , which doesn't mean that like if there's , you know , a little more bleeding and it's going to take like maybe a little more time , but that's necessarily wrong . But I was just so grateful that there was nothing that made me doubt anything at all . I felt so confident and safe the whole time . So the placenta was born at 2.35 . And then I just stayed in the bathroom and I nursed him .
MollyAnd then we cut the cord at 3.20 in the morning , an hour and a half after he was born , because I had the Elden blood typing card and I wanted to use the cord blood to test his blood type . I was like , well , if he's got a negative blood type , I don't even need to think anymore about like if I want to do the RhoGAM shot or not . And before I gave birth to him I made my partner learn how to use the blood typing cards . So he had to like prick his own finger and test it out . So he was the expert and he I got into bed with the baby , got like so cozy there's . You know , nothing better than just immediately getting cozy in your own bed after giving birth . It just like set , it's heaven . And magically , you know , the two older boys were sleeping and Arno did the blood type . He had a positive blood type and then we just all got in bed and went to sleep .
MollyAnd then the boys woke up in the morning and you know the looks on their faces and their reactions just priceless . And he saw like some birth supplies . So I have like so many birth supplies all the time so he knows what birth supplies looks like . He's like oh , there's a pack of Chuck's pads . And so he saw some birth supplies , like some candles and Chuck's pads . When he left his room and he was like , oh my God , I know the baby was born . And he came in and my partner was like guess what , what ? And he's like I know the baby
Birth Without Ideology: Supporting Women's Choices
Mollyand just was so happy , like huge smile . And then my four and a half year old came in and my partner was like guess what ? The baby was born and his look was like utter shock and confusion . And he's like what ? No , we're like yeah and he's like no . And then he saw the baby and he was like this is crazy . But then he was in love . You know , it was the best .
MollyThe first baby , I didn't plan for postpartum , I only planned for the birth . I hardly did that really . The third baby , all I did was plan for postpartum . So I like had a meal train and I made everybody in the family very clear . I was like I'm not leaving the house for 40 days , so I'm not like driving the kids to school or doing any of this . So I just like set it up really really well . And it was amazing .
MollyMy other two kids were winter babies and , oh my god , like a spring summer baby is so nice . Just the sunshine , sunshine . I could just put him in the carrier in my pajamas and walk out the door . No like having to bundle . And it was my favorite postpartum . I think you definitely appreciate the postpartum period more when it's when you have more kids . Newborns are so useful , they're so easy . The first kid you're like , oh my god , newborns are so hard . And then , with the period , I'm just like this is so nice , this is so nice . Newborns are my favorite people . I just want to smell them and watch them . I love newborn babies .
AngelaOh my gosh , I cannot agree more . Hanging out with newborns is the best and , yeah , the chaos of like toddlers and older children , which is so much fun too , but yeah , like that newborn just hits a little different right it's a little different , right ?
Mollyyeah , and then . So then , two days after he was born , I already kind of said but I put him in the stretchy wrap . I just had like a soft nursing bra , put him on the stretchy wrap and sat in the third row with him in the stretchy wrap carrier to drive to get the rogam shot . I didn't take him out of the stretchy wrap until we got home . So I because I think my biggest thing with getting the rogam shot was I was like I don't want to leave my house with a newborn baby . But we just did it in such a chill , easy way . It was like nothing . You know , I had to get into the car and I had to get out of the car , walk into a room , get a shot in my butt and got right back in the car . It like we made it so easy . So I think if it had been any more of a hassle I wouldn't have done it . But I just had it lined up in such a way that there were no questions asked .
AngelaWe just walked in , got the shot and left yeah , that's so great you were able to do that .
MollyThey like worked with you and yeah , yeah , yeah , and my eldest son came and he was like really sweet and yeah amazing .
AngelaSo now , at this point where you are , what are your views in general like on birth , on supporting birth , and how have they sort of changed , like from when you first started to become pregnant and have babies ?
MollyYeah , I think I kind of went back to how I felt before I did the Radical Birth Keeper School . I went into the Radical Birth Keeper School because I wanted to be an option for women that needed more options to choose from . You know , you can't make good choices if you don't have options , and I think every birth is amazing so long as it's what the woman wants . You know there's no right or wrong choice so long as the woman's getting what they want . And I just want women to feel happy about how their birth goes . I want them to feel respected , and I think a big part of women feeling respected is like respecting their choices and not pushing certain ideas onto them .
MollyI think that any time that you say like this is the right way or not , I'm very open to the idea that my beliefs are wrong , and then it's not even that it's like they're wrong , but what might be good for one person isn't good for the other person . You know , a free birth can be feeling for one person and traumatic for another person . My partner and I had some friends that had a planned hospital birth and their baby came very quickly and the dad ended up catching the baby on their bathroom floor and we were like that's so cool , that's amazing , like that's ideal , that's awesome . And they were like , no , that was terrifying for us Because it wasn't what they wanted .
AngelaYeah , that's so , so important . Like that , that point that you're making right there of like just what one person might view as amazing and awesome , like it isn't right for everybody and there is no one size fits all , and that goes really on both sides of like , even with all of the things that they're pushing at the hospitals , or like you know , like there's ideologies on both sides and like important right to tune into , like what each woman wants and to meet them in there when you're supporting and and to push these , these ideologies and your own opinions . Like , yeah , like that's right for you , right , but finding that like , yeah , being able to support women that choose things that you would not choose .
MollyYeah , so there's obviously there's no right way to birth . There's no right way to birth except for the way that is right for that woman . So now I'm not like , no , I won't go to the hospital . I'm like , if that's what you want , I want to do what you want and I'll support you Because in the long run , my views on birth don't matter at all and they shouldn't matter at all . All that matters is what the birthing woman wants . Yeah , I'm still here to be an option and yeah , I believe in women's abilities to birth and I believe that birth works and sometimes stuff happens and we don't know . You know , I think blanket statements in birth , blanket statements don't belong in the birth world . They don't really belong in life in general . Nothing is 100% true .
AngelaYeah , I completely agree . Well , thank you so much , Molly , for taking the time to chat with me today and share your story .
MollyThank you . It was really nice to talk to you . Thank you so much .
AngelaBefore you go , I just want to remind you I have a ton of resources for pregnancy and birth . If you're pregnant , whether you're a first-time mom or if this is your fifth baby , I want you to check out the show notes , because I have some free trainings and free downloads that you can sign up for , as well as the link to access my labor of love , a comprehensive , self-paced online childbirth education course . I created this course specifically for moms who don't want to be told what to do , regardless of where you're birthing or who you're birthing with , and I'd honestly love to teach you everything that I know so that you can prepare for an autonomous birth experience and prepare to step into your role as the leader of your birth journey . So click to the show notes , check out all of those links and , if you ever have any questions , feel free to DM me at my main birth over on Instagram .