EP. 8 Christy Perrin - Those Who Answer The Call - Organizations Adding Value

Negative impacts from mismanagement of our environment and natural resources.  The lack of access to the benefits of nature.  Using environment as a determinant of health/social determinant.

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Wading Deep Podcast 

Christy Perrin 

Sustainable Waters and Communities Coordinator, NC Water Resources Research Institute 

SPEAKERS: 2 

Speaker 1–Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church Speaker 2–Christy Perrin, Sustainable Waters and Communities Coordinator, NC Water Resources Research Institute 

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Speaker 1 

0:24 

Podcast Introduction-This is Wading Deep, a podcast that explores the connection between environmental justice and race. 

I'm your host, Reverend Jemonde Taylor Rector at St. Ambrose Episcopal church, Raleigh, North Carolina, a congregation with a long history of challenging environmental racism. 

I am honored to welcome today's guest, Christy Perrin, Sustainable Waters and Communities Coordinator of the NC Water Resources Research Institute. Welcome, Christy. 2 

Speaker 2 

1:08 

Hi, Father Jemonde. Thank you for having me. 

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Speaker 1 

1:11 

Good to be with you again. What is environmental racism in your own words? 2 

Speaker 2 

1:18 

Environmental racism, to me is when the negative impacts from the mismanagement of our environmental and natural resources falls on… on certain communities, usually black and brown communities, because of the systemic inequities, and racism that we live with for a very long time, so this could be poor water quality, it could be flooding, poor air quality, it could be lack of access to the benefits of nature, even. And it's also the benefits of, of our environment, and our natural…natural resources are not distributed equally as well. So I'll stick with the benefits of access to nature, for example, you know, in a lot of urban areas, there's less trees, so there's less, less cooling from those trees. So a hotter environment in the summer and the health impacts that go along with…with that. That would be my initial description of environmental racism.

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Speaker 1 

2:39 

No, I appreciate that. You talked about the benefits around access to nature. When we think about nature, we think of nature as being something open that's accessible to everyone. And yet, that's…that's not the case. Can you talk a little bit a little bit more about what you mean, concerning benefits around access to nature? 

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Speaker 2 

3:02 

Sure, sure. The more research that's done, the more we learn about these benefits. So I gave the example of tree canopy cover. I mean, the older I get, the more I love trees. I think trees are trees are the answer. But so there's so much that comes along with that that tree canopy for example, there's the cooling effects. There's the absorbing of stormwater runoff, which is 

the rainfall that falls on surfaces and…and runs off into our creeks that causes flooding and water quality problems. There's mental health benefits of being in nature. And that doesn't even have to be out in like a pristine park that could just be like a little neighborhood community park. As long as there's some greenery there. There's mental health benefits that can help kids in school with their concentration, if they experience nature. Just trying to deal with our life stressors, it makes our… our ability to cope a little better. And so, you know, the access to nature in these ways, is not typically equitably distributed, particularly in urban areas. 

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Speaker 1 

4:29 

I appreciate your comments about the mental health component. The third focus of our Healing Pod is of course horticultural therapy and therapeutic gardens. And one of the things I've been doing…reading concerning is, at least in the Far East, particularly in Japan, the concept of force bathing, and how just being in nature 60 minutes a day, decreases, high blood pressure decrease heart rate. And even from the mental health side, I was reading an article that talked about the beta endorphins that are released by simply being under a tree canopy. And that, of course, triggers the brain's natural opioids. And then that gives a further calming effect. So all of this is so important. So when you talk about urban communities, segments of the population, not having equal access to that, in some respects, they're actually not having access to health care in the broadest sense that this by simply being in nature, positive positively impacts you physically and emotionally and because you don't have access, then you're not getting the quote unquote, natural health care as other population. So I appreciate it. You're linking those two? 

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Speaker 2 

5:52 

Yeah, I mean, I've read some of the same research and recently came across something that was in one of the medical journals about that, and about how healthcare professionals could really start looking at that, too, as one of these, what do they call it social determinants… determinant of health? So environment is one of those determinants in addition to all these other factors as well.

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Speaker 1 

6:18 

Yeah, it was along the same lines of another article spoke about when we looked at mental health care over the past century, how up until probably the 1950s. A big component was nature, that mental health facilities were surrounded by trees and grassy areas that we think about from Raleigh’s context. Dorothea Dix was such an area, I mean, the landscape around Dorothea Dix was, was just beautiful and wonderful. And then around 1950s, the physicians and doctors began to turn more to medicine, and really abandon nature's component. And now we're seeing the pendulum swinging back. And recognizing the importance of nature in overall health. 

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Speaker 2 

7:10 

Right. Yeah, yeah. It's great to see that and how that can play out. From the health perspective, I think it's kind of new for people to think people in the decision making capacities to think about that. 

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Speaker 1 

7:24 

Absolutely. Do you want to talk about your research focus or some of the projects you're handling now? 

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Speaker 2 

7:32 

Sir, yes. So through…through my role at NC State with the Water Resource Research Institute. I've been coordinating… coordinating the Walnut Creek Wetland Community Partnership, which is one of my local projects, I have a statewide purview for my…my job, but I'm fortunately able to focus locally on things that are important locally. And this was I like to say it's riffing off of everything that Partners for Environmental Justice has done. So the nonprofit community based nonprofit PEJ, which started at Saint Ambrose, so, you know, focusing on nature and people around the Walnut Creek Wetlands in Raleigh, so we have them kind of coordinating like an academic focus to it but through a partnership. And there's always been a partnership between PEJ and NC State, but this was…this group was started back in 2014. By Dr. Deidre Crumbly out of NC State, who was a who was a parishioner, as you know, of Saint Ambrose before she moved. But she and Dr. Camp had put a call out to NC State, the NC State community through a forum talking about all the great work that PEJ has been doing in the Walnut Creek Wetlands and protecting the wetlands and engaging community and environmental justice. So it was through that forum actually couldn't make the forum but I called up Dr. Crumbly and met her after that and was able to be a part of this collaborative that was it's… it's I'd say it's an informal collaborative, but coordinated where we get people together to leverage their interest and their expertise and their passion around trying to support people in nature in this part of…of Raleigh, and Southeast Raleigh around the wetlands so… so after Dr. Crumbly left to retire, Dr. Louie Rivers and I agreed to coordinate this group. And so we've been doing that and it's

multifaceted and it's really nice to see the partners are really taking on their on projects which they have been, together, we've been able to achieve a few grant projects to advance some of these… these things that we're talking about for environmental justice, and particularly like the park access nature access, really trying to work with community members like what does that look like for them and being able to get a grant from the Conservation Fund to build more park facilities in the communities of Rochester Heights and Biltmore Hills. So that's been a major part of that. partnerships work and then also looking at how can we reduce stormwater runoff that's contributing to flooding in people's backyards and in Walnut Creek in general. So I would say those two pieces are some of the main components of the work that I've been involved with in Walnut Creek. 1 

Speaker 1 

10:59 

That's actually how I first met you came to St. Ambrose 2012, and met Dr. Crumbly and Dr. Camp and it's 2013, where we presented at the conference at NC State or what used to be to brown stone. And then the next year, she said, 2014, this community partnership start, it's where I met you and Dr. Rivers, and have been a part of that journey. So I appreciate your effort and leadership and Saint Ambrose continues to benefit I know, you were instrumental in helping us get our first rain garden, our first 600 square foot rain garden, and have been helpful in other areas and connecting Saint Ambrose with the city, the city, particularly around storm water, and just being a good neighbor to the Walnut Creek Wetland. 2 

Speaker 2 

11:48 

Yeah, yes, yes. But it's been a fun journey and good to see the things like the rain garden and then seeing Saint Ambrose, take it off on your own and do the other rain gardens and the cisterns that you've done. I mean, I love visiting Saint Ambrose and taking a look at those. Those stormwater projects. They're just beautiful. I mean, some of the best steps thing really are. 

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Speaker 1 

12:17 

Thank you for that. We're certainly proud of them and proud of trying to increase our ecological footprint and be greener. Yes. How did you get into, I guess, sustainability? How'd you get into environmentalism? 

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Speaker 2 

12:36 

Um, well, environmentalism just from…I don’t know…I feel like I wasn't born with it. But you know, really, I was, I was privileged to be able to spend my childhood surrounded by… by forest, really, you know, I grew up in Vermont, and we lived in a suburb area that just have forests all around us. So we just ran around out there. So you know, and then just over the years learning about sustainability as… as I went, and, you know, studied it in school a little bit, studied wildlife biology and animal science, and then was working more with animals and then realize, well, you know, wildlife is great, I love them. I love being out in the wild and supporting wildlife. But it felt like the end of the…it felt like the end of the road,

like working with endangered species is like, they're almost gone, because of the mismanagement because of the decisions that people have made. And I felt like well, I'm gonna go upstream, so to say and work with people. So I got a Master's in Public Administration with an environmental policy focus and, and really stuck around NC State ever since. So that's… that's where I came about. 

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Speaker 1 

14:06 

Well, Vermont is a very beautiful part of this country. So you're right. When you said you were born with it. That sounds like a true statement. 

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Speaker 2 

14:14 

Yeah, I was. I was fortunate, you know, the I got my parents. I got to choose my parents. You know. But environmental justice, if I can speak a little bit more environmental justice component, because that's a newer part for me. And you know, probably since I moved to Raleigh in 2013, I had always tried to be conscientious in my work and directing resources. We get a lot of grant resources. But it wasn't until I moved to Raleigh where I actually started getting involved, like I said, working on the Walnut Creek part. And that had a lot to do with moving someplace and wanting to find my local nature. Because I had never lived in downtown Raleigh before there's…where do I go? Where do I go to go for a walk outside and experience nature and… and have a young child, where can I take my young child, and he's a child of color. So my family is biracial. So I am white, but my partner and my child are not, they're black. So just to find this community around the Walnut Creek Wetland Park, and to learn about that part was really eye opening for me. And meeting Dr. Camp was really eye opening and learning about the unmarked environmental justice movement in my own literal backyard was just, it was really inspiring. And I was really, I've been really fortunate to be able to meld my personal life along with my work life to support and get involved in the work there. And I benefit from it, my family benefits from we go, we go to the Walnut Creek Wetland Park and enjoy it as well. 

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Speaker 1 

16:09 

It's beautiful just to hear you talk about really this intersection between who you are sustainability, your research, and then your lived experience, talking about your partner, and your child, and how all of that really comes together. And you're not bifurcating or splitting yourself that really the home life and forms your research and research informs the home life. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about you did briefly about how you view Raleigh, through the lens of your research and lived experience. 2 

Speaker 2 

16:49 

Right? Yeah, that's an interesting question. So I had been working in Raleigh at NC State for a number of years. But I lived in Cary, and then moved to downtown, downtown Raleigh. So then began to experience it as a resident, also through this work with the Walnut Creek wetland community partnership. So to me, it was it was it was brand new, even though I had

been working at NC State and NC State is in this Walnut Creek watershed that are working to so it's an interesting perspective to that I'm sitting here in my office working on land that drains down into this community that experiences flooding on a regular basis. It's all very connection, right. But you asked about Raleigh, and how I view Raleigh. So it's, I feel like having worked very closely with City of Raleigh staff, that there's just a really a really great motivation amongst the staff to work on these issues of environmental justice. And just to give an example of that, when we got this grant from the Conservation Fund, they allowed us to use it on training. And so we offer training on racial equity to all of our partners, from nonprofits, community members, city, city staff, and many of the city staff members that we work with had took us up on that offer. And one of the managers and I think it was parks, the Parks Department said, well, we'll even pay for some other staff to go to it as well. So they many people participated in this really great workshop from the racial equity Institute, a phase one workshop. So that to me, that that that was really great to see this, like motivation to do the work and get involved in the work on a bigger level, you know, it's a city and it's a pretty big city, and a lot of the decisions are influenced by economics. So you know, the forces of gentrification, which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but when it impacts people negatively, and they can't afford to pay their property tax, and they have to sell and move or they don't feel welcome in their community. And I mean, those are some of the bigger things which are tough to deal with. And still, you're still working through that. How can we have a positive impact when there's these larger forces happening? 1 

Speaker 1 

19:38 

No, you're right. It's certainly all very complicated. I want to just congratulate you and give a word of gratitude about leadership and a conservation fund and securing the grant on the Bailey Drive project that's helping to bring the benefits of the Walnut Creek of Walnut Creek Wetlands to the residents of Rochester Heights, the fact that now they're because of the nature trail that's being constructed and will soon be completed, residents south of Walnut Creek will be able to engage Walnut Creek. And that's a beautiful thing that has not been the case, since the park, or the Wetland Center was built, so very important, and really the Conservation Fund standing in the gap and doing the work that the city didn't do. So, again, I'm just appreciative to you for your work and leadership there. 

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Speaker 2 

20:41 

Right, thanks. I mean, it's all been a result of this collaborative. I mean, that's, it's the collaboration, you know, between Saint Ambrose and community members who've been able to step up to the plate and the Conservation Fund, I like how you say that filling the gap. I mean, the City of Raleigh did create this master plan for this Walnut Creek Wetland Park. But then there's… there's only a little bit of money to implement it. Right. So yeah, I think it was, it's a good thing that the Conservation Fund was willing to help step up and provide it so that this part of the park staff of Walnut Creek could be experienced by people who live adjacent to 

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Speaker 1 

21:26

Absolutely. What do you think are some of the most challenging environmental justice issues? 

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Speaker 2 

21:34 

Yeah, that's a big question. Um, there are a lot, but I kind of go back to like, what cause… is, what causes these problems? And what are the solutions? I think the need is for more people of color at the table in the decision making. So, you know, the… the decisions that were made that put us in these situations where, like, for example, like the Rochester Heights community, being located in the floodplain, you know, because there were so few places where black communities could start a development, right? Because the redlining and other policy decisions, limited the…the opportunities for building. So these decisions were made. And these systems were built by… by white people, right? White people at the table, white men mostly. And we have a long way to go with getting people of color and women and women of color at the decision making tables to …to remedy this because the solutions are local, right? The solutions involve the people at the frontlines who are dealing with the issues, they have to be the ones to tell him what the solutions are. So that it's, it's sustainable for them. And…and just and to do that I think, even with the best intentions, we really need, we really need people of color to be, you know, on the boards and on the council and on in the Senate, you know, all the way up. So that's the big challenge. I see, but it's not insurmountable. 

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Speaker 1 

23:28 

What gives you hope? 

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Speaker 2 

Um, good question. There's a couple of things that I was thinking about this beforehand. There's a couple of things that stood out to me. One, just as an example, I went to a conference recently called River Rally, which is a national conference held by a nonprofit called River Network. And so this was a mix of people working on water working on community development. And a lot of frontline community members were there, as well as people from the EPA and the USGS and the National Park Service's, it’s a mix of people. And really, if you looked at it, it if this was the decision making table, this is what we need to see. Right, like they were all in the room together. So that was really that was motivating and hopeful to see people in the room like you know, people third down in command for EPA, water hearing from frontline community members, their success stories and how they could, how they could deal with some of these issues. You know, there… there are people there from Detroit, from Houston, from Atlanta, from Durham and Raleigh as well…telling their stories so you know, having that sharing of information. Seeing those people together was hopeful on a local level, just from our work in Walnut Creek, I found it hopeful to see Partners for Environmental Justice, successfully able to work with the City of Raleigh and the developers of… of downtown south that huge development along Walnut Creek that's coming to set up a mitigation fund for Walnut Creek. I think that's kind of groundbreaking

problem, but it's a step in the right direction. And that's a really good example for others to follow. So and that came from grassroots engagement along with the city. So that that gives me hope. 

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Speaker 1 

25:51 

Thank you so much, Christy, for taking time and talking with us. 

25:56 

Yeah, thank you. It's been a pleasure. 

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Speaker 1 

25:59 

Today's guest is Christie Perrin, Sustainable Waters and Communities Coordinator at North Carolina State University. 

The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we af ectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram. 

I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal. 

Shalom, Salaam, Peace