From Podcast to Podcast: A Preview of AACRAO’s Technology and Transfer Summit 2025

Brew your favorite cup because you do not want to miss this one! In this exciting episode of Transfer Tea, we welcome two incredible transfer champions: Loida Gonzalez Utley and Heather Adams from Transfer Nation!  Together, they spill the tea on everything you can expect at the upcoming AACRAO Technology & Transfer Summit – the must-attend event for anyone passionate about transfer, mobility, and innovation in higher ed.

From bold conversations on AI and equity, to tools that can help institutions better serve transfer students, Loida and Heather give us an insider’s scoop on sessions, networking, and why this summit is a game-changer for transfer professionals everywhere.

*The AACRAO Technology and Transfer 2025: A Learning Mobility Summit will be held IN PERSON at the Crystal Gateway Marriott, Arlington, VA (across the Potomac River from Washington, D.C.) 

Heather Adams, Ed.D.

Director, Special Initiatives at SOVA

Founder & CEO of Transfer Nation

Loida González Utley

Director of Recruitment & Enrollment Services at A&M- Central Texas

Co-Chair of AACRAO’s Technology and Transfer Summit

Registration Link: https://community.aacrao.org/s/lt-event?id=a1kTP000007Onl7YAC

Transcript

0:10

Hi, you are listening to Transport T, a podcast for the Aggro community sponsored by Agro, the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions officers. I am your host, Loya. Welcome for this crossover episode with Transformation Talks. Hello, hello, everyone. Welcome to a special crossover episode between Transformation Talks and Acro's Transfertea podcast. What? Come on, it's amazing.-- This is the first time we've-- done it here. Oh, the audible clap. Oh yeah, oh yeah, I love that. Perfect. Um, uh, I just, I think this is so exciting. It's the first time we've done anything like this, plus we're super good friends, um, and, uh, kind of fangirls of each other, I might say, OK, because I certainly am of you. Oh man, um, so we figured we would just introduce ourselves and introduce our podcast in case you haven't listened to one or the other of them before. And then we're gonna talk a lot about learner mobility today. We've got a learner mobility summit coming up. We've got, uh, you know, we are both transfer, uh. I guess champions, but more than that, we're obsessed with Transfer, both of us, and credit and learner mobility is Transfer. We wanted to talk a little bit about Acro's upcoming tech and transfer summit, which you should definitely check out. We will both be there. And I think Transportee is gonna be there live, maybe we might hear about that later. Um, so, so join us. So this is gonna be fun. I'm Heather Adams. Um, I am the podcast, uh, host for Transformation Talks. Transformation is if you're not part of our community, it's an online community of, um, peer support. It's a community. It's folks who work in transfer who wanna share knowledge, mentor each other, help each other problem solve. We do transfer think tanks, uh, we do in-person events. As well as uh virtual events we host the podcast we're on pretty much every social media you can imagine and honestly it was started just because I felt alone in the work years and years and years ago and I just wanted connection to to to all y'all and so that's how it sort of blossomed and now it's a now it's a huge community and it's got a podcast and um I personally was a transfer student so I. Um, definitely come to this work pretty authentically and organically through my own transfer experience. Community college is where I found my professional purpose, uh, and I've just been really fortunate enough to work on at the institutional level or as a practitioner and with students constantly and then, uh, with college presidents and leadership and now with states and system, uh, policy, so, um. I've had a lot of luck in in looking at all the various aspects of transfer, which has been really fun. Um, so that's sort of where I come from. What about you? Who are you? What's your podcast? Who am I? Uh, my name is Loya Gonzalez Utley, and I am the host of Acro's Transportee podcast, which kind of started the same way that Transportation Talks did. It was, you know, I Attended Acro um annual meetings, um, and a lot of other smaller meetings and did not connect the same way to people because and it wasn't that I couldn't. I'm I'm an extroverted person. It was a transfer is so different and so finding new people and transfer was so hard, but I think at that time. I was having also um some problems teaching myself how to do transfer and so TransferT was the great opportunity to open up a space where transfer professionals um could learn and uh obtain information about all the transfer work that is happening because there is a lot of good work out there. Um, but sometimes we don't see it and we don't know it, um, because we're not connected to it. And so Transportee, um, focuses a lot on the professional development side, um, and it's very informative. We have had guests from within Acro, we've had organizations, we've been connected to recently some faculty, um, and getting some insights as to. How they play a role um in the transfer process and it's just blossomed into this space that provides information for um practitioners that is open to anybody who wants to listen about transfer um and so right that's the other thing transfer is so massive there's so many elements of the people and the places and the spaces and. The policy and the practice and the politics that it's just it's, it's enormous. So I'm, I, I loved when I started to listen to your podcast and just hear from such a variety of guests in that way because it's just vital that everyone's talking about it. Well then where do you start? Like there is so much to know about transfer and the fact that transfer is different state by state just makes it even more complex. Um, I think, uh, there's a lot of misconceptions too that we try to deal with in the first season of Transportee, one of them being that students, um, have already had experiences and they should already know things. So we tackled some of those myths, um. He also tackled like how uh before it was not a thing and we'll get a, we'll get into this uh shortly, but transfer used to not be something that happens so often from state to state, and now there's this credit mobility thing. Um, it's happening to where you have to know what the Common Core in Nebraska is because you may have students coming in from Nebraska and what does it equate to and what does it look like and where do you look and who vets it and who signs off on it and how does it apply and how does-- it equate and you know-- all learners are mobile y'all learners are mobile. They're going everywhere. So yeah, exactly, yeah, and so how do you bring all that together to somebody who is a young transfer professional or a new transfer professional and gather all this information and feed it to them so that they are aware and they can learn from it and so we felt like Um, Transfer tea was the, the perfect opportunity to spill the tea on all of the transfer things happening, to create some excitement, but to also um inform people of, you know, all the resources that are available to transfer professionals. It's been such a rewarding journey. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that because I've found the same thing. We started out doing a lot of the like, uh, nuts and bolts in the first two seasons. Um, and I love that you're focused on the professional development aspects because I think what we're kind of going into now on Transfer talks is this, you know, what are. Those kind of controversial complex things that we don't actually get a space to talk about much. I mean there are people in the transfer world who have very different thoughts on things and beliefs on um on the right way to address a problem or a solution, and there's so many complexities to it now, um, given the state of higher ed in general. So, um, I like the, the match of the two where there's this like professional development element, um, introduction for folks who are either new to transfer or don't think transfer is their responsibility mixed with like, OK, what are the controversies, what are the complexities and how who in the in the community is digging into that and how are they digging into it? Yeah,-- and-- how can we learn as we grow, how can we learn and replicate that work, you know, we talk a lot in higher education about not. Reinventing the wheel that does not have to be reinvented. There are people out there that are experts, even if it's something small, experts at bringing people together, experts at building pathways. We, and I think that's our goal to bring up all the experts together into one place and provide all the listeners with that opportunity, um, to learn and to expand their knowledge because here's the thing, I think another part of Transportee for me and podcasting actually, um, and I know you feel the same way, Heather is the advocacy part. Like we need to be voices for each other and for the community and for the transfer students that uh we serve. Just before we started recording, I was telling Heather about, you know, a situation where it's common in higher education they have one transfer person. Um, being the sole person responsible for everything transfer at these large institutions, and they said, well, it doesn't surprise me, right? That's, that's unfortunately it is common, but because there's a misconception that transfer is easy or that transfer is-- linear and it's not and so I hope-- that it's just about. Transfer of credit and not the human being and the learner experience. Yes, yes. And and also it's dangerous to have one person like that you were talking, you were sharing that experience with me and it's dangerous to have one person do it, because as we know, then all that knowledge leaves and goes with them once they leave. It's not institutionalized. It's not embedded. Um, and that hurts not only the institution but the students, right, right, and so I, I hope that, um, it also serves as some sort of advocacy for the work that we do and for the resources that should be provided to make transfers successful because we do need them and we're not this is not a call so that you can budget just for a transfer center or just for a transfer office but uh definitely for um more. Support and definitely more knowledge and professional development so that we can help our students successfully, not just get them in the door but understand how to get them graduated because we all know that there are millions of Americans with some credit and no degree and so the question is what happened, right? What could we have done differently? And so, um, we definitely don't want to keep recruiting students and not, uh, helping them complete. Yeah, exactly. Well, speaking of all of that advocacy and all of the people engaged um in the work, we have something exciting coming up, uh, don't we? Acro does, um, and we're gonna get to be there together, which is in person. What's what's coming up in July? I don't know. I think it's something that's like blue and yellow and it starts with a T, um, and it brings like a T and a T. And then we call it now a summit. I don't know, something that that sounds kind of familiar. Is it like a techn transfer? I think it is like that. The greatest transfer. Yeah, I'm really excited about it and I don't know, maybe, um, no, you're co-chair of the tech and Aro tech and Transfer summit, um, summit. So what is it? Share with me what the tech and Transfer summit is. I have, believe it or not, never. Ben, can you believe that?-- Like this-- is it's shocking. I think it was a mixture of like timing in the summer and um. I think I maybe, uh, did a panel once, but I never was an attendee and so I, I couldn't be, I'm over the moon excited, um, to learn to, to get to be there and to get to see everybody. But also just to learn more about kind of the, the progression and the arc of the summit because I know there's some new changes to happening. So I have never been in person. Because I've only done transfer for 5 years and I think that the last in-person one was in 2019 so I've never been in person, um, I, I would for both of us. I know it's our first. I was part of the advisory committee last year, um, and it was virtual, um, but I think that we had for some time kind of discussed going back in person. It's that connectedness, that people part, right, that networking. Um, those networking opportunities and so finally, uh, Acer decided that we're just gonna bring it back in person. Um, I am the co-chair along with Doctor Mark Booker who I look up to and who has helped me make sense of a lot of transfer things early on in my career, um, and he's super organized how he wrangles. Yeah, I want to be like Doctor Mark Booker when I grow up. Shout out to Doctor Mark here. Yeah, and so, um. Yeah, and so I said, sure, I, I felt confident because I was co-chairing with, uh, Mark and he's just wonderful and so knowledgeable and connected. Uh, but basically, um, what it is now is a learning mobility summit and that kind of brings us to why is it called a learner, uh, mobility summit when it's actually transfer and technology. Um, and so I've been using, uh, credit mobility a lot, uh, lately because that's what transfer has evolved into. It's not just the articulation of credits anymore. Um, it is a competency-based, that work experience, the fluidity, the military credits, and how you bring that together to a comprehensive learner record. Um,-- and-- so valuing all forms, it's like it's cultural too, right? It's valuing all forms of education. I mean, I use the word, I love the word transfer because transfer to me means that like life is transition, you're never not in transition. It's not about transfer of credit or you, you know, it's really about that lifelong trajectory right? and um and learners are they they are mobile as we said in the beginning everyone is really a transfer if you start thinking about dual enrollment, you know, credit for prior learning. Um, the 40 million people with some college credit no degree that you were talking about, like we are all transfers in a way we are all learners who are mobile who are traveling and are crafting our own educational journey and so I actually love that learner mobility credit mobility um aspect of it, um, because that's what transfers always meant to me, you know, you know, Heather and it didn't click to me at first. Like, truthfully I was like, I don't understand why we would call. This credit mobility and why we would consider experience. But um and I don't know if you've heard this, uh, but I used to sell cars before I did higher ed. And a lot of I did not know that for 7 years we were having a cocktail we were having a cocktail at the Transportation happy hour. I must hear about this because that sounds like a riot. It was, it, it was, it was a great gig and you know, I learned a lot of things from that experience. And so things that don't, that are not visible on my transcript. But life, real life scenarios that have helped me evolve in my career. And now I've never been a transfer student like you, but when I, when I was really sitting down to think about why it mattered, I thought about all of those things. I also thought about my mom. Who started medical school in uh Mexico, but we migrated to the United States and so her credits did not transfer over right because not the same, not apples to apples-- uh all-- forms of folks back then it didn't transfer and so my mom found herself in this state of frustration because she has been doing nursing or she was a medical assistant for 30 years and had more. Pharmacology experience that the newly graduated uh BSN and so she, you know, there was a sense of frustration that I would hear from our conversations but she was like, I have so much knowledge and so much experience that I've picked up in the last 30 years of my career that are not evident on a transcript and on a transcript, I am just a medical assistant, you know, but in knowledge. I could write a prescription and so, you know, and I think about those and the frustrations that people, honestly, it's daunting. And so, um, I think about all the people who could have some credit if we were able to bring that experience into a learner record. And so then after thinking of that for a long time, you know, I became very open minded about this learner uh credit mobility thing that everybody was talking about and I was right on board. Well, I think it also helps because it gets others. I, I don't know about you, but, uh, one of the other parts of transformation is just that I was always having to make the case for transfer, right? Like if I say first gen or veteran or foster youth, you know exactly I don't have to explain it. I don't have to, I, I don't have to make the case for it, but you say transfer and people are like, uh, what, you know, and everybody thinks of it as such a transpe not everybody. Traditionally transfer has in higher ed has been thought of as this transaction of transfer of credit. So I was actually really against the name change too, because I was like, transfer is a personal word to me. It's like I love my transfer experience. I love the, you know, the meaning that I've kind of endowed the word with. But the reality is not everybody has that definition of it, right? That's Heather, that's in my own head and I'm trying to convince everybody of it all the time versus, you know. Credit mobility and now learner mobility, um, I think it it it allows in folks who don't understand transfer but understand credit or understand the learner and understand that things move and change, right? So I kinda, I, I, I too came about kind of resistantly came over to the to the phrasing and now I love it because now I feel like more people get it. I'm not having to make the case constantly and it's the same. It's the same idea. It encompasses the exact same, yeah, exactly community that we that we're talking about, learner community. And how do you do that without technology and all of the good technology that is out there to help us make it easy, longer the days where you have to manually articulate, uh, every single coursework I've done the work. Highly 10 out of 10 do not recommend manual on that, um, but, um, and so these beautiful two worlds of technology and transfer coming together into what we call now technology and transfer or learning mobility summit now. This is what it is this year, but as it picks up, we're already uh reimagining like what is 2026 gonna look like and it's really gonna be based on all of the things that we see and experience at this conference that are going to help shape the future of the summit. Mhm and I love that and I think it's time, right? We've been talking a lot in the transfer community about there's always gonna be a need for the professional development for first time career, right? First time in transfer learning first, you know, new to transfer or just wanna understand the basics, but I think there's also this hunger for the folks that are working in. Transfer to solve problems. I mean transfer outcomes are dismal and they have been for 30 years and it's like we keep banging our heads against the wall and we need spaces and places to uh back to your point from the very beginning, collaborate, bring things together, not silo, not own like no one owns transfer, not like it needs to be this sort of, you know, uh, we need to solve the problem. together because it's not gonna transfer doesn't sit in one area. It doesn't sit in tech, it doesn't sit in admissions, it doesn't sit in student service, you know, so I think this summit this kind of what it's evolving into is, is, it's such an exciting time and it's so desperately needed in terms of what we're hearing from the community. And truthfully, that's the exciting part about. The summit this year. I think initially um we wanted this to be for the practitioners for just for people that are processing recruiting, being in, you know, that don't normally get um a lot of professional development, but Heather, it's evolved. I mean, you're part of the advisory committee, you came on, we had a lot of meetings prior to deciding what we were going to do and how we're going to do. We mapped this whole thing out. And they were complicated conversations. Like those were not, there were times where I'm like, OK, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna push back. I'm gonna just say and you were right there too, like, because, you know, sometimes it's hard when you're in the world to like step out of the world, right? We've been in it, we love it. So it was a, it was, it was really great conversations, great like teamwork, moving things to a new thing. And to realize things in a new way, yes, and so that has made it evolved into back to your comment, transfer lives everywhere and we have to get comfortable with that because it's all different. We had this discussion. I I you'll recall it's different parts are owned by different people, but there is not one sole owner of Trans that's what makes it different. You can't put. It just in one place it actually lives in a lot of places at the same time. Do you remember that conversation? I do. I 100% do. Yeah, you, I mean, and you know this as a person who was the sole person, you had to straddle like academicfairs, student affairs, external affairs, enrollment management. Yeah, exactly, you, you have to do all of it and that's, that's not, that's not. Feasible or uh sustainable, obviously. Yeah. And there is not one sole owner. So, so the, the conversation was like, who's the owner? I think somebody had asked like, who's the owner of this part and I'm like, well, in the transfer world, here here's the thing, transfers can live in admissions, it can live in registrar, it can live in academic affairs if you make enough. Academic decisions about it. It can live on its own in a transfer center. It could live, you know, in academic advising. It could live in, in a college even. I know some institutions that have that have their own transfer professionals by college. It could literally live anywhere and it takes every single person in an institution to make transfer work. Agreed 100%, 100%. So really anybody who's listening, if you haven't already registered, clearly you're running to your computer right now because, um, this, I swear to God this is not an advertisement for it. We just really are passionate about the summit and what it is and what it can become. Those that are there this year really help, are helping with this evolution of where it's going, right? And it's a meeting of the greatest minds I feel. So slowly after launching this new in-person idea, we started seeing key players from Upsia, from Kale. From NISTS, from Phi Beta Kappa, and to me that was like a dream come true, Heather like there these are professionals like you that I have looked up to that I have relied on that are experts in different areas of transfer all. Coming together like there is excitement behind this summit this year and so everybody is coming together, large organizations to really gather the voices of trans person and show up and say we are here for the practitioners, for the students and for ourselves. I love that. I, it's beautiful. I mean, it really is a dream come true in the sense of the collaborative spirit that has to happen in order to address transfer, um, at scale. Because we've been doing it by ourselves and we've been doing it siloed and it's not working. So, uh, you know, the time. Come, uh, I know you know occasionally we'll come together and there'll be a collaboration, but like we need all the minds of the table, we need all the aspects of the various functions at the table in order to really um make this that that kind of movement that it needs to be. Yep, and it has all that together. It's just the perfect storm to further transfer as a whole because you're right, we had been working in silos for a really long time. There were different conferences all separated, all for different things. That's fine. It's great, we should support them. But All of them had missing pieces from each other and that's what we tend to do in transfer work in silos and that never works, never goes well when we do that, right? Um, we have to work together and so we have, it's just evolved into this beautiful space. I am the I can't, if you cannot hear the excitement or see it, like I am really excited to just know that we are a part of this and we're going to get to see this come to fruition. Um, and then to be able to meet people who are just starting or are fairly new when I see young professional, I don't mean age. I mean, uh, people who are new to the profession, um, you know, ask some questions and network and get to know people like Heather and, you know, like other professionals that are gonna be there and really pick their brains. We have to do this like I called it I think in um. In one of my, uh, my connect articles, I called it a revolution because it really, it really, it's what it is. It's a revolution. I mean, we need an education revolution in a lot of ways and to me transfer is the perfect solution to so many. Massive challenges that are happening in higher ed right now. Transfer is your, your, your learning mobility learner mobility and this idea of everybody is a student is the answer is the solution to to institutional survival, to, you know, um, our, our tech worlds trying to talk to you. Each other and be inoperable and like really work together it's transfer is a great opportunity to find those solutions. It's a great tool or mechanism to solve some of those problems and it's been here all along. People just, you know, they've cho chosen not to prior not people institutions and at scale people we have not prioritized it. um, I think we know a lot of the answers to fixing it. Its systems change, but nobody and nobody wants to touch that, uh, because you have to do that together, you can't do that as a single entity. Um, so I think that's again why it's um like extra exciting to me just, you know, you put it really well, it's just bringing all of the people together, um, so we can solve the problem together. But I'm wondering, yeah,-- go-- ahead. I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm thinking of like, I think of society like how do we change society? We educate them and so how do we provide education? We make it accessible and how do we make it accessible we consider all these other experiences. That are non-academic to bring that together. There are people out there that are experts and genius geniuses and have so much more knowledge that we can bring into the classroom, but they are out there with, you know, unofficial credit working their tail off, you know, just, just with so much knowledge that we can learn from, but we have not gotten to the point where we can successfully turn that into an actual, um, learner record and so, um. I feel very passionate about about that now and looking forward to this entire summit and all the things that we're gonna learn together. I know, I know. So I mean I think you addressed a lot of the like specific issues and trends and things that are happening, right? Like from a student perspective, um, it's that valuing your learning, right? Like I would, you know, I did your mother was a nurse was a nurse, your mother is incredibly skilled and well trained. Uh, and yet she had to start over again. She had to kind of start at the beginning or not be valued for all of that wealth of knowledge that she was bringing to the table. So this is the issue from a learner perspective, you know, I think working with faculty and institutions on how to quantify that is, you know, like how do you, what's the standard? Where's the bar, right? How do I, what's the test to see just how skilled you are in X or Y thing. Um, and I think people are really struggling with that out there in the field, so I'm excited about seeing some of the tech solutions because I don't think tech is necessarily going to solve transfer, but I sure as heck think if we could use tech to address some of the really big system. Uh, inefficiencies, like you said, like hands, you know, manually entering equivalencies or like or transcripts or what have you. If we could lift some of that burden from The from the work of transfer think about how much more we could be present for students uh and how you know we keep talking about streamlining transfer that's what we mean really we mean like make it equitable, it, you know, make it so that uh it's not an individual thing, you know, an individual person deciding on an equivalency or manually doing this make it you know automated and universal. Yeah. And and it's daunting. It would leave you with enough time to have those conversations where you have students under the misconception that college is unaffordable or that they can't do it or that it's not flexible enough or that, you know,-- not when a-- school they can't go to a certain school because of a certain-- vibe or ellaism-- or that transfer students are an outcast or all those other parts. See,-- like-- career, I know. People don't talk to transfers about that. You could have, you, it would make so much room. Yes. And it's the whole idea of the experience part, right? You automate the parts that can be automated to give you enough time to give somebody that one on one experience that they need to answer their questions. And sometimes their questions are not academic related. Sometimes they're just like, I need a plug for childcare so that I can go to school, like, I have the money. I just need childcare, you know, and some of those things come alive, um, through conversations when you take the time to listen to transfer students. And here's the thing, there's never a process that I have implemented in my professional career that was where I failed by listening to students, not one, just like, wait, we're gonna pause because that was a beautiful and true statement. Like never has uh anything that she has implemented in any of her work failed, uh, from listening to students, right? Like you that's the key. And so if, you know, on some of the stuff that I'm seeing or, you know, kind of the trends and things that I'm watching out there is making room for that for that conversation, you know, and that's really what students say they need to when you talk to students, um, they, they wanna. They wanna understand, they want an answer to why they're going to institutions, right? They're going to institutions to get a better job, to get more money to for career change, whatever the reason. But what happens is no one's having the conversation with them about like how being a psychology major can actually be the door to all kinds of things, not just psychology, right? Like, you know, being a history major, this is where you go with that. It's not necessarily about always about the workforce trends, even though um even though it can fall along those lines and there can be a lot of funding for that but for a student they have to. Understand how, you know, this major over here connects to that workforce trend or connects to that civil rights issue or connects to the life, their life trajectory and life goals. Yeah, and so, um, I had a thought and it fled my mind, but it's all right. We've got lots of thoughts, but I agree with you is like listening to students, you can't go wrong. Um, that's what it looks like in practice too in terms of, um, you know. We don't have time for that at the institution. I mean I don't work in an institution anymore, but I work with states and institute and and systems where people are doing that at um you know. At scope and scale and it's not sustainable. It's not equitable and it's taking way too long. Students need it right now, yeah, so I, I remember I was gonna say there is a ton of research out there about transfer student barriers. Look it up. They'll say the same thing. Students ask you about money, students ask about time and students, um, foresee, uh, barriers, um, whenever they're trying to figure out the transferability of the coursework. And also if they have if they reach a navigation point and or they have to click and it's not confusing, they, they're they're gone so much more, they're gone, they're not gonna come back. We need, we know this. There's hundreds of research out there. We already know this. We need people that are going to take action, and this is what the summit is about. It is unifying voices. It is bringing people together, and Mark says it like perfectly. What are we going to do in the next 365 days post the summit that is going to be proactive at moving the needle forward because guys. I am tired of people citing the Columbia University studies in 2015 and really wondering why the heck we still have 80% of transfer students wanting to transfer and only 20% transferring and it is 10 years later in 2020. Yes, somebody help me. Oh my God, yes. And and it's if you go back in time, it has not changed. It's like it's, and I, I, oh gosh, I'm so with you. I feel, I feel like so I don't know, I just very, um, uh, it's resonating with me because I'm always thinking like we do know there is it's not like there, you know, there's research that we know what will work, we're not doing it. And so to Mark's point, like. Let's get together and do it. Like if we're really because we also put the onus on students too much. Let's stop making them advocate for themselves. Like screw that. Like, you know, come on, we really need to be the the the advocates that we say we are and change it for them. Yeah, like us repeating the same data points is not a bank transfer. I mean, you know, us just sitting around talking about it in our offices is not going to, it's not going to advance transfer. Um, I think one of the, one of the other parts that we talked about in the advocacy group when we were bringing all this together, um, was. I really hope that people feel empowered and supported in conducting research because we all know that research and data is what gets people motivated to take action and I feel like we need better research and transfer, significant research that is gonna be groundbreaking. Um, and it's going to change and open conversations that need to be had. And so I think about even my own team, um, I was so proud of them because this year they went to TAA in Texas and presented on Transfer. I was so proud of them, um, yeah, and, um, I said you have to keep doing that. Like, yeah, think as a researcher. How do you make a change? How do we make a change institutionally? We look at research and we look at trends, but we pay more attention to research and data. And so we need more significant research and data so that we can advance this already because we're tired. Yeah, exactly, and we've been working too long and like running in place on in some ways for some of this stuff. Uh, I think the challenge comes with transfer research is student outcome measurements take a long time, right? You know, we know 2 + 2 doesn't necessarily work so that means you're probably looking at 6 years, maybe 20 years if you were me and on my transfer plan, um, and so sometimes it's really long term, you know, some of the research seems out of reach because it's it the metrics are, are long term measurements, but that doesn't necessarily. Have to be the way you can start with a simple problem of, you know, why are we um making people apply for graduation? Like why are we adding that extra step and is that delaying students or, you know, or why do we have them pay for um uh you know, a um. An application fee like, is there a way at our institution we can get rid of that and then measure what the effect is? Do we have more students enroll? Like there are small problems you can address right now with um research that aren't gonna take 6 years to find out the impact that they're gonna have. Yep, there are, and it's in the, it's in the smaller things like you don't even have to go as far as to success and, you know, the 6 semesters it takes a student. What about like a student's individual experience, not the barrier part. What is your experience at a place that was not designed for you? What is it? Yeah, show me data. What can we do about it? How can we make it better? How do you feel about walking into an institution that doesn't provide the same um type or quality of orientation as freshmen do? And why don't we do that? And how does that make you feel as a student, you know, how does it make you feel as a student when people make assumptions that you already know everything because you've come from another institution, you know, those small things, those small questions that you ask students are really the ones that are going to keep them in school or have them drop out, um, but we're doing data in those areas, yeah. And those things are the things that we probably you I'm sure you've seen this, we've both seen have an impact long term, right? It's how you get a transfer center be. It's how you get a like hearing students, your students are the experts in their um in their journey and their their experience matters, especially right now in higher ed where there is so much, you know. Uh, hesitance and doubt and, you know, uh, uh, distrust of higher ed, like now is the time. Listen to your students. What are they? There's a reason why some of those things are happening. It's not just that it's expensive. It's that people don't feel like they belong, they're not being valued in their in their the richness that they bring to the institution. There there are other reasons behind the enrollment problems and not just the enrollment cliff, not just some of the practical things that are happening that you can see, but there are a lot of those that are unspoken that you're not seeing it, but we've caused through the way that we build culture or don't build it. And then understanding that a transfer student. Is multi-marginalized. They don't just fall into a transfer bucket. They could be a transfer in an adult learner and a military member and have experiential experience. They could be all at the same time and knowing how they are. They are, yes. And so having like long are the days where we are only seeing traditional transverse. I hate that word. Um,-- but-- I know, but yeah, that first time in college, first year full-time student, right? Like that, that's not the norm anymore, right? You've got even you got youngins coming in with full like up to a junior load of courses, right? So like students look different and it's you gotta, you gotta adjust to it, you gotta like step up, um, I think in terms of being institutions and so I'm excited to hear like there's some. I know there's gonna be some presentation there on research, right? Um, I know that, um, there's also one on credit for prior learning, there's a couple things on credit for prior learning, maybe like the AC guide and stuff that I'm really excited about because that's where I think we need to move fast and next is that credit for prior learning. So I think those are the areas I'm excited about. Also, transformation is doing a couple of things. We're trying to work those out now. So I'm excited about that. Are you excited about like what are you looking forward to other than just being with your people, um, in July? I'm look I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people that I have interviewed for Transportee, uh, so you'll have to come to figure out which ones are coming, um, but you know, I'm, as a, as a person who has also done, um, international transcripts, there's gonna be some sessions on international credit transfer. I cannot wait for that. Yeah, that's something we need to start getting like talk about national credit mobility. We need to do the global international like we can, we can, we should just be saying that. Like we might as well if we're gonna go big, let's just go big. It's got to be global. screw national thing um yeah there's going to be a pre-conference for the International Institute, but there's also going to be a breakout session for all those that are um interested in the world of. National transfer. I think we are headed in that direction anyway faster I mean than the speed of light as fast as we are trying to get credit for prior learning up on the learner record, we are also trying to figure out how students are transferring from other countries, which again poses the same questions of. Where do I start? What is this credit equate to what? How do I understand the educational system? Heather, I used to do international education, so I haven't as much as transfer. So when those two worlds come together and they collide, oh, it's the greatest thing ever. It is, it really is. And it's something I think it's another challenge that we need to figure out in the world today, um, with all the things that are going on and all the kind of limitations that are happening for, um, international students. So it's a great place to spend our time and our thoughts. We're gonna talk a lot about data. We're gonna talk about how to do data. We're gonna talk about success, about reframing, about getting the stakeholders that you need to make a change and transfer. Um, streamlining a lot of the processes, academic records, all literally all of the things that you could think of and transfer in one place, plus transfers greatest professionals. Yes, woo, I love it. And a ton of tech, right? A ton of like technology solutions like what and there's not just one, right? There's gonna be a bunch, right? Because there's not gonna be one, they're not all trying to save this, you know, uh, solve the same problem. They do different things. I know it seems overwhelming sometimes if you're not a tech person, it may seem overwhelming. But the reality is, is these are solutions, uh, they're solutions to the specific problems that you're probably working on at your institution right now you just have to find the right one that fits your problem right that you're trying to solve. Yeah, it doesn't have to be overwhelming. Um, we're actually going to redesign the way we connect with our tech friends and so that's. It would be really exciting too to be in the same room and be able to have conversations with them. Listen, these are literally our partners, our friends, people that are here to support all of us and help make our lives better and easy, um, easier, more efficient so that we can make space for our transfer students and really, uh, make this go forward. Um, so you're right, Heather, there's gonna be a lot of tech there too. Yeah, I I can't wait. No, I don't. I know. Yeah, no, it's not because it it actually what you just said, the reason it changed for me was that just sitting down and having conversations with my colleagues and going, oh, this is just another world of of expertise that I need to understand that's also trying to solve the same problem, that's also sitting in the same space with transfer. It just seems confusing or seems daunting because it's new, because it's not what I do every day, right? Um. But yeah, no, I'm excited to learn a little bit more about that and see kind of all of-- those folks in the same place-- and they actually make me feel seen as a practitioner, like all of these companies really coming together and finding solutions for people like us who are sitting in. Office is trying to figure out how to make more time and more space. So our tech friends, uh,-- thank you to-- our tech friends. Yes, thank you for making our lives more streamlined. We love you. They are our partners for sure. They are, uh, well, I, I am hoping, uh, come find us at the conference is basically, or the summit, basically, like we are so excited to see you there. Hopefully this was sort of helpful in understanding what the summit is. Um, I'm hoping it's a catalyst for lots of future crossover episodes, uh, where we can really tackle some of the really, uh, transformative transfer, uh, uh. I was gonna try to think of a Tword and it didn't work-- for a-- transfer, but it doesn't say it doesn't like.-- I don't want to use troubles because I don't need to-- transfer. Somebody give us the word come find us at the conference and give us the word. That's the magic, yeah, that's our little, yeah, exactly, um, we're gonna put a bunch of resources in the show notes. There's gonna be links to what we've talked about, links to registration, the summit exactly, um, you're gonna see us at the event. There's gonna be transformation, um, events there. There's gonna be a happy hour, um, yeah, exactly, and then. You'll also be able to find us online everywhere. You should listen to Transferte. You should listen to Transformation and talks, uh, send us your ideas for episodes, even crossover episodes. We're all in, and I'm just excited about getting to have the conversation. getting to watch this evolution with you, your amazing leadership on uh as part of this evolution and transformation of the summit, it's just been really beautiful to be a part of. So thank you, thank you for like being part of the committee and accepting like. We have, so when you hear this episode, um, we have never met in person. This is the first time we've come together. We've had some meetings before, but this is the first time, and I have never been more excited to meet another person than when I, when I meet the Heather Adams, um, it's going to be exciting, but we feel that same way too about all the other partners that have been a part of this. And so just imagine a world of Happy hour transfer talks, the best transfer experts, technology to make your life simpler. I mean this is, this is an exciting time and we would be so honored if you would come like literally come look for us, um, come say hi, come join us if you are a new, um, timer, which most people will because it has not been in person for a long time and you want somebody to be your. Partner throughout the whole conference, just come, come join us. We will be with you. We will go through all the sessions. We will get you connected to everybody you need to get connected to. I love the connection part. That's my, um, we will connect to all our transfer friends and then yeah, you will understand why this is such a beautiful world to live in and be connected forever and ever and ever and collaborate on a whole bunch of things. You're amazing. Thank you for having this conversation. What a great way. I wish I could spend all of my Mondays like this. I know we need to, maybe we can make it habit.-- Maybe-- we should. I think we should we should carve that time out. Well, I don't know about you, but you probably have another appointment after this, and I do too, but, uh, we're gonna see you at the conference, so come find us, come spill the tea um with your two transfer besties. Uh, we can't wait to see you in July. See you soon. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Transport D. Today we explored the pivotal role faculty. Guiding the transfer They are active Only demystifies trees or pathways. empower students to make informed decisions about their academic futures. By fostering a collaborative environment, faculty can significantly enhance transfer success rates and student satisfaction. If you have found this discussion insightful, be sure to subscribe to Transporting on your preferred podcast platform. We welcome your feedback and suggestions as well for future topics. You can reach out to us anytime via email at transportate@acker.org. Until next time, let's continue to support and uplift our trans student community. That's