From Transfer to Trailblazers: The Tea Behind the System

They’ve been on both sides of transfer—as students navigating the process and as mentors helping others through it. In this episode, Mimi and Mckenna share the tea on what transfer students actually experience, what support really matters, and where institutions still fall short. Now graduate students, they reflect on how those experiences shaped who they are today—and what both students and higher ed professionals need to understand if we’re serious about getting transfer right.

Host:

Loida González, Ed.D.

Director, Recruitment & Enrollment Services
Texas A&M University–Central Texas

Guests:

Mimi Guthrey, Graduate Student, M.S. in Clinical Mental Health Counseling
Colorado Christian University

Mckenna Reinsch, Graduate Student, M.S. in Coastal and Marine System Sciences
Texas A&M University–Corpus Christi

Transcript

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Hi, you are listening to Transferte, a podcast for the ACR community sponsored by ACR, the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. I am your host, Loida. And today's episode is a very special one for me. I'm sitting down with two students who I had the privilege of recruiting years ago, Mimi and McKenna. What started as a conversation about transferring turned into something so much bigger. They became some of our very first transfer student mentors, working alongside me to support other students navigating the same journey. And now they're graduate students. This episode is about coming full circle. It's about hearing directly from students who didn't just experience transfer, they helped shape it for others. We're going to talk about what transfer students actually need, what we as institutions still get wrong, and what students should know as they walk this path, because if we're serious about improving transfer, we have to listen to the people who loved it. Transfer to listeners, um, I want to get your attention today because the episode that you're about to listen to is one that I think I have dreamt of for a really long time and it just wasn't the right time, but now it is. And, uh, before we get into the actual episode, I am going to give a few minutes to my guests to introduce themselves, um, and then we'll get started. Um, hi, everybody. My name is McKenna Ran, and I'm currently living in Corpus Christi. I am a 2nd year master's student at the Heart Research Institute with Texas A&M University of Corpus Christi. And I'm currently working on oyster reef restoration. And I'm working with an incredible group of mostly women, and it's incredible, and I'm just over here frolicking in the water and living out my childhood dreams, so it's really awesome. Right, and my name is Mimi Guthrie. Um, I got my undergrad at AM Corpus with my degree in psychology. Um, I attend Colorado Christian University as a master's in clinical mental health counseling. The main goal is to be a child psychologist and to have more of a nature-based practice, working with children. So just getting kids out in the water, maybe helping the, the children that didn't get the opportunities that I had growing up of being on the beach and fishing and just really Letting nature heal, and also with, of course, psychology and practices and things like that. I work for an electrical engineering company, way out of left field, um, but it's a, it's a great job and it's, it's fun. And uh listeners, you might be wondering why the heck or how the heck did our world ever even come together, uh, these beautiful 25 year old, uh, I'm going to say ladies, because they were children when I first met them. Uh, so we're going to go back in time to about 2020, I'd say. So has it been six years? Has it been six years? I think. Oh my gosh. OK, so about 2020. Uh, when I was the assistant director of transfer recruitment at A&M Corpus Christi and I was just going into work to do my job recruiting transfer students and sharing the good news of education, and somewhere along the line I came across these two beautiful souls as transfer students, uh, and so we're gonna go back, boop boop boop. Uh, my first question is, um, how or, or why did you even choose to transfer? And I'll let McKenna go first, and then Mimi, why did you choose to transfer? How did that interest even start? Where did it spark from? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it wasn't, and this is how a lot of transfers go. I'm sure it's not, maybe sometimes it's not always your initial plan, you know, back in 2020, when the pandemic was at its peak, um, there were a lot of students kind of left hanging. And so I had initially applied to A&M Corpus Christi, um, for a bachelor's in Environmental Science, and when I found out that a lot of my classes would be online. And I wouldn't really get to even go to the beach. I, I didn't want that, you know, for myself. And so I stayed home and I helped out a little bit and I went to a junior college in Dallas. Um, and I still, I still wanted to come to Corpus, you know, I still wanted to transfer. And so that's kind of what prompted me to get out some of my You know, general requirements for my degree, and then, and then I came acrossloya and she was just this wonderful, beautiful person that made my mind at ease, you know, it's the process is kind of scary and um it was just, it was really seamless. And so that's, that's kind of how I came to transfer. I didn't pay her to say that, by the way, for the record. So, um, I'm kind of in the same boat as McKenna there. Um, we both graduated high school in 2020, and it was like, OK, well, now what? You know, where are we supposed to go? What are we supposed to do? Um, we didn't grow up doing online school, and so being thrown into online college was really scary. And trying to figure out, OK, now what, we're gonna go to junior college, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that, and just trying to part the waters and figure out what was going on was not fun. Um, I initially didn't even know if I wanted to go to college when I graduated high school. So, it worked out in a way where I just did community college and I lived with my parents, and I am an avid fisherman, love to be at the beach, and was like, you know what, if I'm gonna go to college, I'm gonna go on an island. What's better than that? I can fish and then go to class. So it was the motives there were not 100% on my education, and I'm so thankful that that changed, and it changed from Loya, um. I started to figure out the transfer process and trying to navigate all that, and she was just a gem, and she changed my entire perspective of going to school and how beneficial it can be not only to career choices and things like that, but just my personal development. Um, so I met her through there and I never thought that she was gonna like me when I started to go to school because I emailed Loya like. I don't know, 3 or 4 times a week. Sometimes she's checking in. I was so persistent and like, answer me, answer me, answer me, and I was like, oh man, she's gonna meet me and be like, there's the crazy girl. Um, but it didn't work out that way. Now we're here and it's wonderful, and,-- and-- I, I do have, I do have some follow-up questions for y'all, um, in thinking of this process, like some, some transfer students plan out, right, their process, but like you all mentioned, most transfer students don't like life just happens or something changes and do you make a decision at that time? What were your biggest questions or fears about transferring? I was so scared that I wasn't gonna fit in. You know, I think, absolutely. I was so, I was like, oh my goodness, you know, all of these, all of these core freshman classes and memories. I mean, I'm gonna miss out on, on, on this, especially with that cohort that you just kind of get thrown into, you know, I, I was so worried about not fitting in and just kind of. Maybe feeling behind um on things that I should already know about, not just the university and like the whole experience, but just like Corpus Christi in general, you know, you move and there's all these like weird terminologies. I mean, I didn't know what the bluff was. I didn't know what a bluff. I love the bluff. OK, that's flower bluff. OK, that's, I think a, a welcome guide should be in the future. But just like these, you know, these like social norms that you feel like you might miss out on in transferring. That was my biggest fear. Um, but again, I mean, Lloya just came. With open arms and to all, not just us, but like to all of her students, you know, and she just, she'll sit down with you and talk you through everything and reassure that you're going to be OK, you know, and that was just, it was so nice and I can definitely feel Mimi on the like persistence, you know, not only me, but like my parents would also be bugging Loida and it was just like, wow, we. There are a lot right now, but she loves. But there's a lot of uncertainties, right? Like that need to be answered, addressed. I mean, you're, the volume of emails speaks to the fears. Yes, yes, definitely. And just like, will this transfer, will this transfer? Did I take, did I take this class for nothing, you know, and all of those questions are answered with with Floya and it's just really awesome. So. Mimic your base here and not fitting in, honestly, same as McKenna, it's just you, you know, you're gonna just be dropped in to this new place, new time, new classes, you don't know campus, whereas like freshmen, we're older whenever we come in as transfer students and a lot of transfer students are not. You know, the 22, 23 that McKenna and I, when we transferred, there's definitely an age range, of course, and so just not knowing anything and having these 18 year olds that have been here for 2 years, know all the professors, know the classes they want to take, and we're just like, OK, now, um, where's the closest gas station or restroom? Like, how am I even supposed to get to class? So those were some really big, really big fears. Was there something that surprised y'all about the transfer process? And it could be a good surprise or a bad surprise. There's more transfer students than you think. You know, once you find them, yeah, it's like, oh, this is cool. I have a little group. Yeah, like, oh, what school did you go to? Oh yeah, I went to this one. How was your previous college experience? That was pretty cool. That was a good surprise, was like, you sit down in class and you don't know anybody. You don't know who else is gonna be. Sitting next to you, and they're like, yeah, I was in community college for 4 years. I was in community college for 1 year, didn't do it for 1 year, back again 1 year, and so everyone's story was so cool to me and it was really surprising throughout the transfer process to be like, oh, I've done that. Yeah, I haven't done that. That's crazy. I have no idea, you know, makes me feel a little better. Somewhere along the lines, uh, I was like work was becoming too much for me, um, uh, because I've always been and I've always worked at places that valued. Uh, student centered approaches and that type of, of communication, um, that requires you to, um, answer students and families in a timely manner was just becoming too much and somewhere along the line, I was offered the opportunity to hire, uh, staff, but not full-time staff, it had to be part-time staff, um, and so they were like, like, you know, you're gonna have to come up with a way to um. To, to staff this, to call this, to, to like imagine, you know, this new staffing model, what's it gonna be? And somewhere along the line, I came up with transfer student mentors or somebody helped me come up with transfer student mentors. I don't know if it was like Oscar or Maggie or the people of the Reni that I was reporting to, like, I, I don't remember quite how we came up with it, but, uh, we had this opportunity for a transfer student mentors which the whole purpose of this program was to hire transfer students that had already gone through the transfer process to be guides and mentors um to new incoming or students that transfer students that we're trying to recruit. And I'm, I'm never going to forget the time when McKenna scheduled a meeting with me in my temporary office and she was like, I need to look for a job. And so she was like, I, I just really need something part time, you know, that is going to work that with my schedule, and I was like, oh my goodness, you literally walked in right when I had an opportunity. Uh, and so I, I mean, it didn't take long, as, as you can hear, these bonds, these girls are wonderful, um, to, um, hire, uh, McKenna. So McKenna was the very first transfer student mentor. There were a few other people, but Uh, not too far along came Mimi, and, uh, jokingly at that moment I said that y'all had to become best friends. I said, we're gonna work really close together. We're gonna do a lot of cool things together. Y'all are, y'all just need to be like best friends. I think I said something like that. I don't remember exactly what. Oh yeah, I did, OK. And so they were looking at me like I was crazy. Um, and, and so I want to, I want to, uh, talk a little bit about that experience because I think it's very unique. Not a lot of people get to do that, right? So you, you actually, OK, so, so let me go back.-- What was it like being a transfer student-- mentor? Um, OK, well, I, it was really fulfilling, you know, I think despite being so unbelievably drawn to the water and the environment and all of the ecosystem services that come along with it, there's always been a part of me that really enjoys talking to people and leaving an impact not only on the planet, but on, on individuals, you know, and I think. That coming into that experience in that role so young and so fresh out of the transfer experience was so. It was just so unique, you know, you really got to talk to people about your own personal experience and kind of reassure them that like, hey, it's really scary right now. I remember being in your shoes, like 6 months ago, and now I'm here, you're gonna be OK, you know, and having somebody. Your age, or maybe not even your age, but having somebody that is going through the same experience that you went through and it, it's just a really cool connection to make, you know, and there were so many times within this position that You know, I see people that I helped on campus that would be like, oh, I, you're a student as well, like you helped me, this is, this is really cool, you know, and I think it's just so there's something that's um It's a, it's a really unique and wonderful connection to make with these students that come through, you know, so, and Loya was just such a lovely mentor. I mean, I had never worked. Really anywhere. And not only did I have to like dress business casual, I didn't know how to do that, but I had to take meetings with people and be comfortable talking in front of crowds. And I think it was just such a great introduction to working that I valued where I worked more after that, you know, I set the standards really high. So. Yeah, um, I, I agree, um, it was really fun to be able to talk to people, help them get into school, figure out their fears and things like that, and then sit in the class with them or graduate with them. Graduating with some of the people that we helped into the process and helped into NM corpus was just like. We did that. Like it is really, really cool. Some of my favorite parts about being a transfer student mentor was. When students finally realize that we're not adults, we are not going to like make or break these decisions. We're not gonna set you up for failure, and then they ask you like, hey, is the Starbucks on campus actually that good? And they get, they get on that level with you. Those small little fears, those little bits of anxiety, those little concerns really can change everything. And it's like, oh yeah, you should try this place in the UC or there's a really great Mexican food restaurant down the street from campus. It's not far, you can take the bus there, like, giving those real world examples was really cool as a transfer student mentor. Other than meeting both of you, I would say that that was the highlight-- of it for-- sure. That's really cool. I did not know that you had graduated with people that you recruited. Yeah, that is really cool. Yeah, like in the same row, and they would be like, Hey, you helped with my transcripts. I'm like, I did. Yeah, that is wonderful. I did not know that, um. What do you, what do you all remember, uh, doing? So, so, so people that might not know the program or might not be familiar with it, my primary responsibility was to lead recruitment efforts for transfer across the state. It was a really daunting job. I don't know if y'all recall, but like I was hardly there. Uh, we were in, and, and we were in a ton of different territories, and so these wonderful transfer student mentors, um, kind of handled the local stuff. Uh, so let's talk a little bit about, or you can describe to listeners, what did you do? What did your day to day stuff look like? So day to day, I mean, it it varied day to day, in all honesty, like once a week, um, for example, and Mimi would go to a different college, we kind of tag teamed local areas, you know, but I would go and table at Delmar, um, and just kind of let people, let people know that transferring is an option and, and, um. Recruit and for lack of a better word, you know, students that are looking for that next step and might not know where to go, you know, it was nice to, to be the face to represent the university and kind of encourage people to take that next step and you made really awesome connections there too, and But on a more, you know, office level, if you want, whatever you want to call it, um, answering a lot of emails, you know, you get a lot of questions, um, some of them were incredibly elaborate to like paragraphs of questions. Some of them were like, what's my A number? Yeah, yeah, and it would then it would be like, hey, what's my number again? Or hey, what's my, you know, will this class transfer over and it's like a class that I have, I've never heard before. It's like, well, I'm gonna figure this out for you. Um, and then it was also having one on one meetings with these students, and I think that was probably. My I feel like I took away a lot from those meetings, whether they were online or in person. I mean, you really get personal with these students, and a lot of the time, you know, you have communication before and then you meet with them, and they're shocked that you're as as young as you are, and you're a student, and their whole demeanor changes, they get really real with you, they're like, wait. I feel like I can talk to you, you know, and it's, yeah, and it's like a, it's, yes, and so it was just really, it was just really exciting and then also working with, um, you know, upper management too. I mean, the connections that I've made with this job. It has helped me for, uh, I mean, it helped me two weeks ago, you know, it continues to help me to this day. Um, so I think that's really cool. And then just, you know, working events with your coworkers and, um, being there at Island Day, that kind of thing, um, getting used to talking to people in front of crowds, you would give little presentations and that's, that's really what I remember, so. Yeah, the teams calls were awesome. They were super fun. Sometimes they were sometimes they were a lot, you know, you would have a, you would have a 6 hour day and a 6 hour time frame, and you had You know, 12 meetings with 12 different students and then on top of that, it's the emails and the phone calls and just really the reassurance that we would give to students on a daily basis was constant, like whether we had meetings a little while ago because it has to be the whole process, right? They come to us, answer the questions, but they still have to apply. They still have to send their transcripts. We can't do that for them. We're there to be their guide and their mentor throughout that process, but we can't sit down with their computer and fill out their apply taxes, or their scholarships and things like that. And so just really talking to people and connecting on that level with teams was awesome. It was also really fun, like McKenna mentioned, Island Days or any of. The other transfer recruitment events that we did, we would talk to somebody and have them on teams, have them on emails, and then meet them, and they would seek us out at Island Day and those events, which was how Loya and I actually met, because I walked up and I was like, hello, it is finally time that you put a face to the crazy emails that are happening right now. It's me. Um, so that was a really cool part of the job, and like McKenna mentioned, she would go to Delmar. I would go to Beeville, um, Coastal Bend College, and Alice. So I would switch back and forth. So one Tuesday I'd be in Beeville and one Tuesday I'd be in Alice, and so that was really fun to just table and get the people ready to go. Yeah, um, I, I was gonna mention that, uh, Mimi, I remember when we were on at Island Day and I was like on the side where they had just presented like the whole recruitment team and all of a sudden Mimi comes running and her mom was there and I was like, wait, who is this person? I thought I was gonna be attacked, uh, but I was attacked in the best, most loving way, uh, by, uh, Mimi and my remember my co-workers were like, what was Yeah, and I was like, it's this girl and I've just been talking to her for a long time, and she said she was going to be here and now she's here, uh, and then a few months later, uh, you joined the staff. Yeah, you, you stopped me at Island Day as we were walking out after the introductions and did it and you came up to my mom and I, and you were like, hey, you want a job? And I was, I remember that. And I looked at my mom like. Uh, is she gonna like, really, like, are you serious? And she was like, yes, and I think that McKenna, you're gonna meet her. You guys are gonna be best friends. So I need you to be part of the team. So are you want the job? And I was like, I mean, yes, I guess I met you about 5 minutes ago. I'm persistent sometimes and like there's two sides to that story because Loya came to me the same day and was like, so I just met this girl Mimi. She also. She does ballet. She's blonde. She fishes. I think you guys would be best friends, and I'm gonna hire her. And then and I was like, I was like, OK, remember these conversations. Yeah, I called my dad later that day and I was like, oh, so this is happening, I guess. And it was like. Yeah, so I had met your parents too, which I think was beautiful, um, you know, as, as a parent now to an ever growing, um, pair of wonderful children, you know, we have, we have a lot of questions, uh. Answered and so I do now appreciate and value the opportunity to meet your parents and be able to answer their question. That's really important because ultimately transfer students have a support system most of the time and, and sometimes it's parents and sometimes it's not their parent, right? Sometimes it could be their friend or their sister or whoever they trust, um, on this journey and so it was really cool, um, we did, we, I, we, we did, yeah, yeah, yeah, we did really cool stuff. Um, what were the most common struggles that students came to you with? I'm curious. many of you have something go cause I'm still transferability of credits, yeah, yeah, um, I think that was the Other than their standard concerns about starting a new school and how the process works, it was transferability of credits. Definitely, just like, hey, here's my detailed 100% transcript, we need to take a look at this and see if these classes from some middle of nowhere school in like Idaho is gonna work with, right, you know, A&M corpus. So I think that was a really big struggle. Um, I also think timeline, students were really concerned about If they were to transfer in the fall, if they're like odds of making friends were better versus transferring in January, did you really get those type of questions?-- Oh my-- goodness, I would say for me, yeah, just about every day, at least 3 times a week, um, mhm, and so they would be like, well, if I start in January, like everyone's already gonna have their friends, everyone's already gonna have. Their things. I'm like, no, it's a new semester. So those were some really big concerns that all age ranges of students had too. Like not just the students that are worried, that are, you know, had 2 years at community college, fresh out of high school and coming in, like, even some of our older generation students, for sure, they were very concerned about that. Interesting. Yeah, I would agree. I think the transferability of credits is a big one. There were so many times where I would receive. The longest transcript I've ever seen in my life. Just when I thought, oh, surely it can't get longer than this, the next day I would receive something that was even longer. And I was like, great. Um, but you know what, you're there for them. You show up and you put in the work to figure out, OK, are these classes going to transfer over? And I think, um, you walk them through it. And I think to build off of that, something that I don't know if you struggled with men's, but like, I definitely did was telling people that classes. Wouldn't transfer. Yes, that was really sad, you know, they take so much time to do all of these really niche electives and then you have to be like. This isn't gonna, you're, you're, you know, super, um, sounds really cool wildlife, uh, biology, whatever is actually not gonna transfer to your math degree, you know, so it's like two things that have nothing to do with each other, so and you try to make it work, but that was really difficult, I think, definitely. Sometimes even like Kenny and I would talk like after and be like, oh man, this person came in with this class, and then she would be like, oh, the same thing happened to me and it's just, it was some of those were some hard moments. But you have each other, you know, and you have a great team to, to figure it out and to help them the best they can. And just because you tell them that some classes didn't transfer it doesn't mean that they're not coming back, you know, it doesn't stop anything, um, but I just think. I care a little too much sometimes and it's hard to tell people no, you know, and, and it, and it's hard, right, as a transfer student. I was not a transfer student, but y'all were transfer students. I mean, think about investing time and your parents' money and resources and mostly energy too in completing coursework only to find out that it's not going to count towards the degree. I mean, I can only imagine what that, what that feels like, uh, as, as, as a student and as a parent, you know, too. Um, and so, I, I guess, now that you've been on both sides, you're, you've been the transfer student and you've been a transfer recruiter, um, what is one thing that you would like to say to institutions? Like, if you could tell institutions, just generally, uh, one thing or give some advice, what advice would that be? Um, I think an advice piece, cause I've thought about this question before, uh like in the times of working at A&M Corpus and going through it and talking to students is institutions I feel like are not patient with transfer students. Their patience level is so thin, because they want the, the new, the fresh, the just getting into college, we want you here for 4 years kind of student, but a 2 year transfer student, 3 year transfer student can, you know, make a huge difference in their lives. So just be patient. Patient with them. We have a lot more questions. We've already gone to a college before. We understand what English 1301 is. We don't, you know, we need some help in the process. So I feel like everyone's patience level was just so thin, especially speaking with other students that would be like, I can't even get in touch. With my people at my college that I'm currently going to, and I can call you. Like I can call you on your phone and you can answer my questions. So just be patient, know that there's a lot going on in the background than them just coming into school for the first time, yeah. I would agree. I think the patience is a big kick, a, a big kicker, and I also think just like, I know A&M Corpus was, was pretty good about this. I mean, what, you did a lot to transform the transfer department and to advertise how welcoming the university was for transfer students, but I think for other institutions, just reiterating that they are accepting of transfers, you know, I think like Mimi said, there's this whole notion that you have to be here for all 4 years, you know, and I think advertising. That It is a university that you can come to with prior experience from other places, you know, I think that would probably encourage more people to apply. Um, I think clicking the transfer option on, you know, apply Texas is scary. You're like, OK, this isn't traditional. I don't know what this entails, and maybe just having. Some reassurance and encouragement that like that's totally normal and we have people here to help you through it, you know. Yes, and on top of that too, with like this institutions not promoting transfer and not wanting that to happen. I feel like that's where a lot of our questions came about like transferring in January or versus transferring in the summer or the fall, really came to fruition because it always starts like August is when it starts, August is when it starts, well, because they don't even talk about transfer. They don't talk about the, you know, the students that are transferring over, so those questions, I feel like came from there. So just-- broadening and-- transfers, transfers transfer year round. Like there is no, there is no fall, summer, you know, there's no, there's no time limit on, so there's their marketing tactics. Seemed just real low. I mean we were great marketers. We marketed out of the universe. We were awesome. I like to think that our numbers were highest when we were both mentors, 100% they were, so 100% transfer recruitment went up while we were all employed there, um, and we brought in a whole bunch of transfer students, by the way, we had a very successful, uh, operation. Um, but, but it goes back to, you know, basic marketing or basic, um, business practices. It's peer to peer, and I think the impact was not the work that I did, the impact was the stories that you all were able, um, to share. And, you know, the realness that you were able to provide to students. I, I could, I could never, I was never a transfer student, and I was a staff member, and so, it's daunting to talk to a staff member, uh, who you might feel doesn't get you because, you know, you don't, you don't, um, You, you're different. And so, so they did not ask me where, you know, whether the Starbucks on campus was good or not, which, by the way, it was popping. It was awesome. That's what I said too. I was like, Oh yes, girl, go see Maria. Shout out to Maria.-- Shout-- out to Maria. I'm this episode and be like, Maria, you changed our lives. So she was so incredible. She always knew what I wanted. She's like, do you want? To try again today. Like, yeah, no, I think I'm gonna try something different. Like, what would you recommend, you know, and it was just so fun. Yes, yes, 100%. And so, um, I did not get those questions. And so I'm glad that you did and that you were able, um, to answer those uncertainties because they're real and that, and that's another part, um, I've always been critical of the transfer process, which is why I think I like working in transfer. Um, those, those, um, questions about fitting in and about, uh, guidance might not seem like they're a big deal, but to somebody that is brand new, they're trying to adapt to this whole new world, um, that they don't know about. And, and to your point, you said it earlier, um, that, that other people have already been privy to, right? There's a lot of students that have already been there first year, they already have a community, they already know their professors, they already Know what the bluff is, uh, and where the best fishing, uh, spots are, and so you're having to learn this all on your own. Um, that leads me to my next question. What do you, uh, what do you think that institution, so this is like an institutional question, what, what do we as institutions think students need versus what do they actually need? I feel like I don't know, it goes back to the Starbucks, it goes back to the fishing, it goes back to the just reassurance that you will fit in. I feel like a lot of the times institutions might feel the need to give you a whole bunch of information about the coursework and the this and the application deadlines and that when in reality, I mean that's really good, and you need it, but I also think there's an element of Hey, everything's gonna be OK. You're not alone, you have so many people here that are similar to you, you know, these are some, and like, if you're moving across the country, you know, I, I like one of my favorite things to do with students was to recommend or not recommend certain apartment complexes, you know, you can give your personal experience with these people, um, so I think just like getting real with these students and being like, The amount of times that I had students cry on meetings, yes, all the time, and it's like it was so heartbreaking to see how much this transfer process and these fears were weighing on these people, you know, I think at the end of the day sometimes they just need to hear. Hey, we're gonna get you through this. You're not alone. There's a team of people behind me as well to help you through this, you know, just don't, don't information bond. That's not what you need sometimes, just a little, just slow down. It goes back to that patience, you know, just cheer them. But my listening skills have increased in being a mentor. Oh yeah, and it's uh, to piggyback off that in a little bit of a side note, this process and being a transfer student mentor shaped me wanting to be a counselor. Like 100% because I felt just so much like reward and love and empathy and compassion and all of the main things that you need to be a counselor through this job. Because I would like to be at my apartment, you know, I'm a college student. I, OK, right, we're college students. I would still be at my apartment thinking about X, Y, and Z and can't like I'm so excited to email them tomorrow. I'm not gonna email them at 9 p.m. because, you know, that's weird. Um, I should be out. Cause I'm in college, but I just was so excited to like be able to shape that for them, and that they really shaped me too. And to go back to the question, sorry, I went on a little side note, um, I feel like institutions think transfer students need, like McKenna said, information. All the time. They need all the classes, they need all of this, they need all of that. They, we don't, we didn't need that. And I can say since Lloya got both of us into this school, she didn't do that to us. She gave us the information that was required. But not overwhelming because the process itself is already overwhelming. So don't do any more. Tell us if the Starbucks is good, and it'll ease one concern, and then we can move on. So yeah, I, I, you're taking me back to, to our training. I don't, I don't remember if y'all recall, um, but The listening part is something that I still use with my staff now, and I've kind of taken that with me. You don't have to regurgitate the catalog to a student. That's not what they want. In fact, you could do that and they're still not going to understand you because the catalog is written in higher ed terms, to start, right? So like, like general like. Like most of the population that is not in higher education does not even understand the catalog. I mean, let's be real,-- us in higher ed sometimes don't even understand the-- cat's true, you know, we're trying to piece it together, but it's fine, um, and so, and so you regurgitating that is, is overwhelming, and then it, it makes a person question like, should I, should I know this? Like, am I dumb because I don't know or understand this, and I think that just raises more, um, uncertainties. Um, so thank y'all for sharing. Thank y'all for sharing. That was beautiful. I did not know you want to go into counseling because of this, uh, Mimi. Oh yeah, it shaped everything for it. Absolutely that's beautiful. I, you know, continue to talk to people, but I decided I, I, I don't want to be a therapist. Well, we always, you always know what you want it to be, yeah, so,-- so there-- is, you know, there's no, it's just funny. Well,-- obviously-- too, it really came from like from you, Loya. I mean, your passion for transfer students is inspiring. Not only is it inspiring just for a transfer, but how you just spoke to your colleagues and like your peers that were our bosses was like, oh my gosh, this is so inspirational. Like this is how work environments and work friendships and professional development should go, and it seriously shaped it, and honestly, McKenna and I, and I'm sorry if I'm gonna speak for you a little bit on this, we would not have cared as much. We would not be on this podcast. We would not be the friends that we are, all three of us together, if it weren't for how you shaped our working environment and how you did it. I'm serious. It is, it's true. It's true. And the way that you just spoke about people, the way that you spoke about your peers, the way that you spoke about your students. I mean, there was just so much.-- So-- eloquent, so much there, yeah, and you know, I think I've worked in places where there isn't that care for each other, you know, and, and like at the end of the day it takes, it takes a certain type of person to be able to be the glue and to get these feelings out of people, and you did that, you know, and it just happened so seamlessly and now, like I said earlier, like it just, it set the standard really high for not only the work environment, but the people that I want in my life. You know, yeah, let me tell you, work environment standards were set high after Corpus Christi. Uh, I can imagine.-- I can only-- imagine. And you guys felt it, right? You saw it. Shout out to all the people that were our bosses, Rene, Maggie, Oscar, uh. Of Velma, you know, uh, Linda, all the people, um, which, which are my best friends now, right? But, um, but listen, healthy work environment, um, I, I, I've, y'all know I've sold cars and I've talked about this on the podcast before. I would never sell a product that I did not believe in. Um, uh, when I was a successful car saleswoman, I was offered a really good job one day at a certain brand, and I was like, I can't sell this. I don't believe in it. I don't like it. So I, I can't sell it, right? And so you have to, uh, really believe in what you're doing, and that's twofold for me. I believe that higher education is the access to opportunity. I always will. Education is for everybody. Um, it's for everybody at different times of their lives. Some people just, it, it's not the right time, but education is always a viable opportunity or should be for everybody, um, in their lives. And the second part is. Uh, there it was a feeling of mutual respect, support, and understanding at the island, um, at that time, where they had a very Um, sincere desire for transfer students, and I was so happy to lead that, but I was backed up by that. So, so a lot of that was, I was just backed up by the right people that believed and loved in students and in education and the power of, you know, bringing in more transfer students. And when you work with people who are passionate and dedicated and and loving, it just, it's just a beautiful harmony. Uh, and so we got to experience that, and yes, it set the bar really, really high, uh, because that's not the case at every institution or workplace, uh, or, or division or, or, you know, uh, and so, and so I think what we had was very special and it made our job even more special. So how could you not care for somebody in front of you when you're Superiors are having conversations about like, hey, what we're doing is not enough. What else can we do? What, you know, how, how else can we provide service? How else do we show students that we care? Let's help this student. Let's open our door, you know, so when these conversations are happening in the background, how could you look at students and not care? You can't help it, right? It's, it's contagious. Bad energy is contagious and really good energy is also contagious. Absolutely, that's the fact. So, um, I, to finish this, this particular part, cause I have, I have, uh, I want to pivot from here and something else, but finish this sentence, uh, for me. You you just need one word, and we'll start with Mimi. Uh, so finish this sentence, Transfer would be better if I guess you'll need multiple words,-- but-- transfer. I was like one word, um, OK, transfers would be better if Transferability of credits and patience with institutions was at the forefront of everyone's mind. Awesome. McKenna, transfer would be better if. Transfer would be better if People believed in themselves more, and there was more encouragement and backing in their, in their decisions and drives, I think. Cool. Oh, I love that. OK, one more fun one. Transfer would be better if Lloya could just help every transfer student all over the world. Hey, what do you think we're trying to do on this podcast? He makes them feel so at home and perfect and wonderful. So that's how actually transfer would be better. Yeah, if Floyda could just like be a little fairy and go to everywhere and help everyone, then transfer would be so much better,-- like-- Tinkerbell.-- with all of the glitter-- and the gold and the, yeah, glitter, her little sparkle, her dust on everyone, and she's like, pew, you transfer pew, go transfer and it's that's right, guys, since, since we've depart, since we've parted ways, I've met so many transfer champions, and I'm so thankful. So kudos, yeah, round of applause for all those champions out there who are spreading. Love and have patience and, and they're the ones behind the scenes working tirelessly like we did sometimes very under-resourced, not everybody has the opportunity, we learned that, right? Not everybody has the access or the resources to have a staff. So shout out and kudos to all those transfer champions um who are out there doing the Lord's work, uh, because they love transfer students. Um, I want to pivot to advice and reflection, and so, uh, I wanna get some, some advice from you, um, for that, that you can share based off of your experiences. Um, I wanna know for, for students, what transfer students know that you didn't. Like kind of you go. Wait, OK, what something that I wish other transfer students, students knew that I didn't, yes. This is so much easier said than done, but I feel like just Just knowing that everything is gonna be OK and like play out the way it's meant to, you know, there's not, there's not one perfect. trajectory that everybody follows to get to where they want to be, you know, there's so many different paths and bumps and obstacles in that road, but I think just continuing to surround yourself with people that will build you up and bring out the best in you, um, I think it's huge in that and also just, just going for it, you know, I think there was so much hesitance to even like send an email out to, to transfer initially. You know, I think that takes so much courage, so I think just knowing that you have people to help you. And to not be scared is like huge. Yeah, I agree with all of that, McKenna, um. Also ask, like, to all of the transfer students, ask all of the questions, ask them that we will answer. Somebody will answer. Ask them multiple times if you don't like the answer that you got. So, just stay persistent and be your, be your number one advocate. We had wonderful advocates and a wonderful back team supporting us along the way. So just ask all of. The questions. Don't go into it blind. You are not walking in this alone. We are here to hold your hand as much as you want, and whenever you're ready to let go, we will let you go. But just don't be, just like McKenna said, hesitant, don't be hesitant about it. Send the email, send it whenever you want. It can be one question, send it anyways. Just to Keep in mind and keep that constant communication to know that we are here, and we can help, and we will. So just ask away. In terms of your, of your transfer, uh, your, the trajectory of your transfer, what would you tell your past self? Oh my gosh, just look at where we are now, you know, I mean, little McKenna is freaking out right now. This goes way, way back, but like before the transfer, you know what I mean? Like this goes, this, this runs deep, but essentially just like little McKenna would be proud, is what I would tell my future self that was starting to transfer to A&M Corpus Christi, you know. Yeah, I would tell my past self that didn't want to go to college, um, look at yourself now, miss getting a grad degree, and Just calm down. I think that would have been the number one is just like, dude, take a breather. Like Loya answered your email. You can put your computer down. Like that's so real. That is so real. Yeah, like take a breath. You got this. You're smart. You're going to college. You can get, you're going to. Figure it out. Like, just slow down. Not everything is going to be answered in a day. Nothing is going to happen in an instant. So to all of the transfer students too, and my past self, like, take a breath, things are going to work out. For practitioners, uh, those of us that are still in the field, what should we never forget when working with transfer students? Never forget that these people transferring, I mean, like that in this, just remember that they're people, they have their own lives, they have these things, these things going on that we don't always see or realize, you know, and maybe, maybe their concern and their, their efforts to As a bunch of questions and to transfer into like be freaking out. I think there's something deeper that's making them freak out about this. Um, so I think that just goes back to the patients thing, you know, I think for practitioners to really just level with their students and treat them. As equal, you know, I think that's a huge concern, at least for me when I, I was so nervous to meet with Lea the first time because I was like, oh man, she knows way more about this than I do. I don't really know what I'm doing here. I don't know what to ask. Like I feel so silly, but just like making sure that, no, no, all questions are valid, you know, just, just go with the student's pace, you know, go with the flow, go with the flow. I would say that no matter how similar, um, some students' transcripts can look, and I mean it can be to a T. They can go to the exact same school, they can get their associate's degree in this, they can want to transfer and get their same degree in that. They are not the same. There is not a, there is not a single student that is the same, because just because they have mirroring exact. Transcripts, their whole lives are not the same. They're very different. So how one person interprets, you know, 24 transferable credit hours and a 2.0 GPA, somebody else might interpret that completely differently. So, I would just say that treat everybody different, don't make it cookie cutter. There was nothing cookie cutter about the way that we did it and did transfer, so don't ever change that. Don't make it the same at all. That was beautiful. Uh, so in this first full circle moment, how did this experience shape who you are today as graduate students? I think my, I just, it makes me more appreciative of everyone's journey and who they are and how they got to where they are, um, and I think in a more like in a smaller, more applicable circle, I think it's helped me so much in the sense that I have A decent presence online, like taking meetings with people and collaborators, just talking to people, knowing how to dress at conferences, um, I think that I've had a lot of full circle moments there, and I also think it's helped me. Um, understand the application process more and it continues to help me with like my little sister, for example, she's transferring. And so I sit down with her and I talk about, OK, you know, maybe consider taking these classes, or we can look at this, or, you know, my friends and my family friends. I mean, you, this stuff stays with you, and I think I've been able to help so many people in my life that I probably wouldn't even know had I not had this position. Um, so I think that's, that's a full, pretty full circle moment for me. Yeah, yeah, full circle moment. Oh gosh, like McKenna said, they happen all the time. Um, the professional development. From being a transfer student mentor was awesome. Um, I had worked all through high school and then of course in college, and numerous crazy jobs, um, all the time. So just really slowing down and taking like a more in office, back office, and also still recruiting job just opened the floodgates to all of the things that we can now do. So young, like a lot of people at 22 did not get the opportunities to stand on a stage and talk to a bunch of other students and parents at Island Day, but McKenna and I did. And so now getting up and being able to do that, and our confidence building through this job was just incredible. So full circle moment to do all of that, and then of course counseling and just the help, the help that I got to do as a student with transferable credit hours. Just made me want to do more and more and more because it was just so rewarding and doesn't it give you like a cultural, it makes you like culturally sensitive, right? Like your awareness of people, people from people from different backgrounds, different languages like. The more that I learn people, the more careful I am whenever, you know, I'm, I'm having discourse with them, or any sort of exchange of communication, because it makes you a little bit more sensitive to, like, OK, this is the person, they mean this, or they're trying to convey this, um. They, they don't know what they're trying to convey. OK, let me help them help. Let me help them help me figure out what they need. Um, and so those are really good skills. I'm glad that you guys were able to. Oh my God, yeah. I also think too, with like the, the cultural, like just diversity and development that we got to learn, culture doesn't have to be, you know. There's a language barrier. It doesn't have to be a geographical, it can just be your culture and who you are and how you were raised, can be very different throughout the process. And so we got to see everything and everyone all the time. And so culture doesn't have like a finite, OK, this is gonna be a difference between us. McKenna and I are very culturally similar and also culturally very different. And so it was really neat to see all of that, and that's a full circle moment that I have all the time through going through my counseling program. It's like, oh wow, we're this the same and this the same and this the same, and then we are like, no, mhm, no, not at all. I'm on Mars, they're on Earth, very different. So it's, it's just that was really cool. I agree, I feel like it's helped me form better connections with people. I think it's, it has helped me just like level with individuals that I may not have really understood or or taken the time to like slow down and kind of decode what they're saying, you know, it's like I think we as people are so quick to take offense to things, you know, it's like, OK. Let's just talk about this and let's, let's, let's look at what's happening behind the scenes, you know, and I'd also like to take the time to note that I think working with international students when there was a language barrier has also helped me immensely. Just, I mean, even today, I mean, I, you encounter so many people where there is a language barrier, you know, and I think it's really helped me kind of slow down and Um, and appreciate the diversity, you know, patience, appreciate the diversity that we live in, and it's just, it's really cool. So I think, um, this experience has really just shaped who I am today in both the personal and professional setting. Um, as, as these things are in motion for us, like in the background, I was trying to build my own, my own career. I remember. Um, he's trying to build my career, um, kind of, um, learn more, uh, different pockets of higher education and then like sub pockets of transfer students, right, because they're not all the same. They all all just come directly from community colleges after two years already completed, right? They come at different stages of their life. And I remember that somebody asked me one day, like, you're building this team, what's your secret sauce? And my response was quick. We listen. That's a secret sauce to transfer students. Listen and respond. What are you going to do if you have 10 kids coming into your office and they all seem to have similar issues or similar barriers, then that's your opportunity to respond to those barriers. You have to remove them because if they're having, you know, if 10 people are being outspoken about them, there are probably people that are not being outspoken about them in the background trying to figure out solutions to those same barriers. Um, and so I think that when y'all talked about it, um, But one thing we did well was being good listeners and really um being attentive to what students were trying to say, um, and, and I think the numbers come when you do that. You don't have to be chasing numbers. You, when your focus is on just listening, um, to students and being ready to respond. And so I am so thankful for your time as my transfer student mentors. Uh, during, during those moments for all the energy that you brought, we had some really high days. We had some low days, but we had some really high days and very unforgettable, um, moments that I think will stay with all of us forever and ever and ever. I am so proud of you all, and Um, the professionals that you are becoming. I, I, so listeners, I used to call them my children, but then we got on this call and I was like, they don't look like children anymore. They're young ladies, they are becoming adults and so that is really beautiful to watch also. Um, any last thoughts? No, just thank you. Yeah, I'm just so like happy. I was so excited to tell my parents that we were doing this little transfer talk and just what a cool opportunity this is. I mean, I told the people that I work with in the lab, I was like, guess what I'm doing today. It's just like, it's so fun. I just love having this, this connection. That I mean this lifelong connection, you know, between you both. And it's just, it's so fun that we get to do things like this. So thank you. So we'll stay in touch. We'll share this episode out with, uh, so now I have to say hi to mom and dad and Mimi's mom and dad. Too, because they're probably gonna listen. I still keep in touch with the girls every now and then. We, we send a few text messages back and forth, um, and it just, you know, it just speaks to the level of care and, uh, attention, um, that just stemmed from, from. Simply just I was just trying to recruit y'all to A&M Corpus Christi and I recruited you to be a part of my life forever and ever. And, and so that is uh beautiful. Thank you both for your time, for your energy, and go out there and keep changing the world. Well, thank you and right back at you. Thank you so much for doing all the amazing things. Yes, yes, you're amazing. This is why student voice matters. Mimi and McKenna didn't just go through the transfer process, they turned around and helped make it better for others. And now, as graduate students, they carry that experience with them in everything they do. If there's one thing I hope you take from this episode, it's this we don't need to guess what transfer students need. We need to listen to our students walking this journey right now. Keep going. Your path may not be traditional, but it's powerful. And to those of us building the systems, let's do better. Let's build with students, not just for them. This is transferee, where learning mobility needs practice, where transfer is more than a process, it's a promise, because learning doesn't stop and neither should opportunity.