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United States of PTSD
Season One: Mental health concerns are on the rise in the United States. This podcast will look at the influencing factors contributing to the decline of our culture. With the rise of school shootings, political divisiveness, increasing levels of hate, and a chronic war of peoples' rights, we have entered a domestic war that never ends. Our podcast will look at whether this is done by design or is it an abject failure. We will discuss it from a clinical and common-sense perspective. Secondarily we will discuss ways to protect yourself from being further traumatized. Hosted by Matthew Boucher LICSW LCDP (licensed in RI) who has over 20 years of experience working with people who have addictions and trauma with a specialty of pregnant/postpartum women. Co-host Wendy Picard is a Learning and Development consultant with 15 years of experience, lifelong observer of the human condition, and diagnosed with PTSD in 1994.
Season Two: Is joined by Donna Gaudette and Julia Kirkpatrick BSW. Julia is currently working on obtaining her MSW and her LCSW. She is a welcome addition to the podcast.
Season Three: Cora Lee Kennedy provided research and worked as a temporary co-host. Dr. Erika Lin-Hendel joins as a co-host for season 3.
United States of PTSD
S2 E 23 The Emotional Weight of Political Discussions
Join Matt, Julia, and Cora as they navigate profound issues in today's episode of the United States of PTSD. They delve into the stark realities of political division, its emotional toll, and the complexities of discussing politics with your nearest and dearest. Through their candid experiences, they shed light on how political propaganda and fearmongering around issues like abortion and international conflicts manipulate public perception.
Why is it that despite countless opportunities, political leaders fail to codify critical rights, perpetuating a cycle of division and manipulation? Our hosts dissect this question, highlighting the disconnect between political action and public needs. They explore the ethical dilemmas and the selective media coverage that shapes our understanding of protests and international conflicts. By drawing on personal stories, the hosts underscore the importance of collective action and vocal opposition to influence political policies, advocating for compassion and understanding in navigating these turbulent times.
Navigating today’s political landscape can feel like standing at the controls of a runaway train, faced with impossible choices. Our final segments emphasize the power of respectful dialogue and the quest for common ground, even amongst fierce disagreements. Cora shares her journey as a parent discussing politics with her children and the heavy emotional weight it carries. We wrap up with a heartfelt thanks to our listeners, inviting them to contribute to future episodes and reminding everyone of the importance of self-care amidst our shared societal struggles. Thank you for being part of this crucial conversation.
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/hartzmann/no-time-to-die
License code: S4CEQWLNQXVZUMU4
Artwork and logo design by Misty Rae.
Special thanks to Joanna Roux for editing help.
Special thanks to the listeners and all the wonderful people who helped listen to and provide feedback on the episode's prerelease.
Please feel free to email Matt topics or suggestions, questions or feedback.
Matt@unitedstatesofPTSD.com
This podcast is not intended to serve as therapeutic advice or to replace any professional treatment. These opinions belong to us and do not reflect any company or agency.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, welcome back to the United States of PTSD Today. I have both Julia and Cora with me today.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone, hi everyone.
Speaker 2:We had an unfortunate turn of events, so we are planning on doing a small mini series on incarceration specifically related to substance use and what it's like for people in the prison system when they get out to find jobs and how the system really just does re-victimize people and keep them back in places like prisons and using drugs, but unfortunately our guest speaker couldn't make it today. We do have two guest speakers lined up down the road, so hopefully that'll be the next couple episodes and another really quick announcement I'm going to be in Italy in 14 days, so the first ever, there will be an episode I'm not on that will be run by Cora and Julia. So we decided to shift gears a little bit and Cora had asked me to remind everybody why we started the podcast in the first place.
Speaker 2:So the premise of the podcast is really to look at all of the things in our society that we like to say are failing and helping to keep people oppressed, and why our argument is that they are actually not failing. They're working as designed to help keep everybody oppressed and fighting each other, and those are the why we pick the topics we pick is to show the different ways that our culture is really keeping people down and keeping people disenfranchised and fighting amongst themselves. Keeping people down and keeping people disenfranchised and fighting amongst themselves, and with this, the spirit of that topic, we have decided to revisit again the political atmosphere that's going on in this country right now and how toxic and divided that is. So, since I'm talking a lot I don't know, cora julia, if either one of you want to talk about your experience with what that culture is like for you right now I'll go first.
Speaker 3:Um I, in my personal life I think my personal life and my professional life. I am having two vastly different experiences with the political climate with the upcoming election in November of 2024. People I surround myself with have very similar political views as me, so really distress when having personal conversations is not as um it's not as prominent to me just because I know that the views that I share, that I hold, are going to be similar to those who I share it with in my professional life as a mental health professional, in a private practice setting, working with clients, maintaining that professional boundary of like, not totally sharing my own political views, but hearing the stress that many are going through and also holding that space where I feel that stress myself. It's a very interesting but difficult situation to be in because many of the concerns and the stressors that people are feeling are very real and stressors that I feel as well, specifically regarding reproductive rights and women's rights and just overall human rights that are up on the table in this election. How about you, cora?
Speaker 1:How are you feeling? Very much the same. I think you said that really well, julia. I feel like kind of a sense of alienation from some of the people I encounter because I don't necessarily share their views. I've always been able to hold space for people to talk and I'm always curious to listen like where people are coming from. Yeah, it can be a little bit hard when, especially when you're working with clients and you don't want to share your own personal views because you want to allow them space and time to figure out what they need to figure out. I think I've tuned out, like a lot of people have. Unfortunately, you know, I used to be a lot more politically active than I am now.
Speaker 1:I don't feel excited about either of the candidates, which feels sad and a little bit hopeless and I'm sorry this is like very negative.
Speaker 1:I'm not usually this negative, but I'm also struggling to explain things to my kids a little bit because we don't watch a lot of TV in our house. They don't spend a lot of time online and it's mostly monitored. I'm always curious like where they're getting their information and like how much we should be teaching our kids about this stuff, especially when we don't agree with a lot of it. So I am kind of struggling with my kids a little bit. And then, finally, some of the older people in my family like are engaging or disengaging in really interesting ways. I think like, for example, my one of my close relatives admitted that they never voted until the last election and that that was their first time in over 50 years of being able to vote, that they actually participated. So I thought that was like really good that they're starting to get engaged in the political process and actually following, like the news. But then I have some other relatives that are engaging in some really like negative social media almost battles and that feels like it's not helping them at all.
Speaker 2:Both of you. That was really well said, and it's a topic that we all do have to talk about, even if we don't agree with that. I mean, the three of us may not even agree on it. We don't agree with that. I mean, the three of us may not even agree on it. What you said, cora, about the toxicity of social media what a lot of the the numbers show is the people who are the loudest on social media often don't vote so, but they like to be on there, you know, creating dissension and division and all of that. Uh, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:You say that because after the debate which I didn't, I will openly admit I didn't watch because I am very much like you. I think they're both terrible candidates. And what I do find interesting is that I know a lot of people are very convinced Harris is going to win, but what I'm seeing is a really similar thing to Hillary. I don't see Harris signs anywhere. I'm going to tell you, I drove across the state the other last weekend, literally an hour through, you know, into Connecticut. But I also drive an hour into Rhode Island to get to work and I see no Harris signs and Trump signs everywhere, so that that's literally what happened during the the the campaign with Hillary. But to go back to the debate, I didn't watch the debate because I don't like either one of them. They're both funding a genocide. They're both made it very clear they're going to continue to fund genocide and I can't reconcile that.
Speaker 2:I think what the other thing that's really telling is, although there are other candidates, everybody is acting like there are no other candidates and that's largely because the media is not pushing them. You know, and of course, when we had't live in a democracy, because there is value in saying these candidates suck. And I'm not going to be forced in a position where I'm choosing between a blue genocide and a red genocide, and that doesn't make sense to me and a red genocide, and that doesn't make sense to me. What's interesting is so the night of the debate, I just basically posted something that said the lesser of two evils is still evil, like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:And what I found really funny is somebody actually laughed at it and of course it was a self-righteous. I'm going to put this out there. It's a person who's a priest and very self-righteous, and I instantly blocked him, was like goodbye, because if you can laugh at genocide, if you think that's a funny thing, I don't want anything to do with you at all and I think the latest numbers are showing what 300 000 people have been killed in palestine with our tax dollars. I have a hard time reconciling that, so I don't know how that you know. What did the two of you think about that? I have a hard time reconciling that, so I don't know how the.
Speaker 3:You know what did the two of you think about that? Yeah, I, I'm really struggling, I. I I'm very split 50 50 in my own personal views. I am not a massive Jill Stein fan I don't. I've been watching some interviews with her. I don't feel like that she is as well informed as she should be about certain issues. I did watch like a podcast with her and she didn't even know how many like house representatives there were, which I find slightly concerning.
Speaker 3:But at the same point, I am disgusted specifically with how Harris is dealing with Israel and pretty much just saying that she is going to continue funding, that there is going to be even more funding, but then, within the same breath, understanding that I'm getting propaganda messages about like, if you don't vote for Harris, then all of your personal rights and like liberties are going to get taken away by Project 2025. Years old, every election I have voted in so far um state and federal I have not been excited to vote for a single candidate. Actually, never mind. I've been excited to vote for one candidate out of all the elections I voted for and it was a local. It wasn't even federal, but so try.
Speaker 3:I'm really struggling with the fact of like this messaging that I'm getting a pro Harris, of like doing this not for the long term, but more of like protecting your human rights, and I'm taking a step back and being like is this legit?
Speaker 3:Like, or am I getting fed propaganda? And Donald Trump, and I'm like, oh no, I think that this is like legit, that those steps would get taken if they were elected into office in those years, not only by JD Vance, but also by some of the individuals that Trump is getting surrounded by. I don't know, it's just I'm really struggling. I'm really really struggling. I mean, when Harris was first announced that she was going to be the new nominee, I was slightly excited because she hadn't put her total stance on Israel yet, which I understand. She's a part of the Biden administration, so she's automatically funding. Even with that, and then with the interviews that she's been saying and just pretty much like confirming we will continue to fund Israel, been saying and just pretty much like confirming we will continue to fund Israel, we support Israel, has made me feel very gross and very just not motivated, because I don't think anything's going to change.
Speaker 2:I 100% agree with you, cora. I want to hear what you have to say about this too, because, julia, you brought up women's rights issues and that was actually one of the things somebody said to me on that post was like you know, I'm a woman, my rights are going to get taken away. It almost implying like I didn't care about that. I mean, anybody who knows me knows I've spent 25 years fighting for women's rights. Every organization I've worked in has been about women's rights and they seem to forget that gay rights are also on the table when. But I agree with you, I do think it's propaganda. I think we are pushed into. I mean, let's face it, if they wanted to codify abortion rights, they would have done it a long time ago and when and they've had many chances to do it. They just choose not to because they like to use these issues to help divide us and fearmonger, basically like, if you don't vote for this, you're gonna you know you're going to lose all this stuff.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, you know we have crappy health care. We you know the education system is falling apart, our roads are falling apart, we have no money to run this country and we're sending record amounts of money to drop bombs on tents funded by our tax dollars. And the Biden-Harris administration has been doing that their entire, like literally the whole time they've been in office and I like I can't. I cannot justify voting for that. I can't. I mean I would never vote for trump either, because he's like the spawn of satan. But if I hear her say one more time to muslim and pal, shut up, I'm talking Because she did it again. 67% of the country wants a ceasefire. That's across the board. I think it was like 70% Democrats and I think it was like 60-something percent Republicans. That means the majority of the country wants a ceasefire, but our politicians are saying, eh, we don't think so. That's a problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or what do you think?
Speaker 1:No, I completely agree, and I think the word fear is just what I keep like resonating with me, especially when it comes to women's rights. I feel like really afraid about this stuff, I feel, and then I feel just so torn. You know, I don't want to like all the stuff. You're saying that about genocide, it's so true, and it makes me disgusted to think about the loss of life, and so many innocent lives. If a vote to Harris is supporting that, that that does feel like completely against my core values. But then when I think about not voting for her and allowing Trump, you know, like that's that's kind of the message that I think we're all getting If you don't vote for Harris, then Trump's definitely going to win, which?
Speaker 2:can I, can I challenge you on that, though? Because something because again, that also came up in this dialogue and I actually just I ended up pulling myself out of the dialogue because I do think there is just people who are very one track minded and they're never going to hear anything. But what you just said about we're going to allow Trump to win if we don't vote for Harris, no, she's going to allow Trump to win because she is not changing her policies, and I think if everybody had that stance and was a vocal because you can certainly email the vice president, I've emailed her numerous times If everybody was emailing her and saying no ceasefire, no vote, it would force her to change her policy.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I love that idea and I love the idea that we need more people speaking out, we need more protests, Like the fact that the protests have been relatively small, you know, is really disheartening, I think, and again it comes back to that like fear. Disheartening, I think, and again it comes back to that like fear. And then I think it also. I think a lot of people just feel like disengaged from these wars that are, you know, so far away, and I feel like a lot of people in my circles don't necessarily talk about it very often and that feels really sad too, you know two things that I think we have to, actually one thing.
Speaker 2:And then I want to give you like a metaphor that occurred to me the other day we have to stop. We have to stop definitively, stop referring to it as a war. It is not a war, it's an ethnic cleansing and a genocide. A war would imply that there's an army on the other side and there is no army on the other side. I mean, they're literally like shooting babies in the head. I mean they just shot an American citizen and they're investigating themselves, right, and the narrative they're telling is very different from all the eyewitness statements. And you know they're doing this over and over and over again. I mean, if you look at a map of all the places they bombed, I mean, show me where they've been bombing Israel, because they haven't. So there is no war, it's an ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 2:But the other thing that occurred to me and I think I talked about this on another episode where I couldn't open my pool because I had tadpoles in the pool and I was like saving all the tadpoles because I don't want to kill any of them. Well, I also have voles in my yard. For a really long time I was opposed to killing the voles. So I was trying to do everything I possibly could, right, like I was doing the like little sound things that emit these, these noises, and that didn't work. And then I was using castor oil. That didn't work. And then I was using these like garlic pellets, and that didn't work. And then finally I conceded and it was like, okay, I need like, actually, because my yard was becoming unwalkable, like I was falling in pits all the time. So I'm like, all right, I have to like do something to get rid of them. So I use those gas things, like gas them.
Speaker 2:And the first time I did it I was very distressed because in my head I was picturing them dying and it was like like really bothering me. But the other day I caught myself just kind of doing without thinking, and the reason why is because I can't see them. So if I don't see them, they don't exist. And I think that's what we are doing with victims of genocide. I just saw something about the in Congo the other day. Like people were killed there, all these displaced people, right, but we don't see it, we don't care because it doesn't affect us. And then we say, hmm, how did the Holocaust happen? Well, it's happening right now.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sorry, Julia, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was just going to say like some of the images that we, like they started showing, especially in the very beginning, were so graphic that I just kept hearing people in my circles being like I can't watch another baby die. You get so overwhelmed that we can't deal with it and we like distance ourself from it. But then we need to be confronted with it and I think this is like one of those areas where it's kind of interesting, like where we are with media. You know, like hearing things on the radio and reading things in a paper, like you know, 70 years ago were very different things than seeing things in real time and seeing murders. Pretty often it's so much to deal with. Just as a regular person, I think and I'm not at all like I think people need to speak out. I think people need to start acting in a lot, a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3:I don't know, but I'm Number one is that the American culture is very extremely individualistic, which I think has been just increased since the COVID-19 pandemic, but I think that that's been the way it's been for years and years and years. So, with that being said, if it doesn't affect us, it doesn't matter. Same thing with the distance. So I think you have that going on, which is beyond unfortunate that our culture and our society is at that point. I think also to your point where, if you're watching the news, if you're listening to things on the radio, versus what you're seeing on TikTok, what you're seeing on Instagram TikTok mainly, not even Instagram, but what you're seeing filtered on media, specifically ABC News, specifically other news stations and radio stations what you're hearing is vastly different than what you're seeing on TikTok.
Speaker 3:And having to take a step back from that as an individual and recognize of like, am I getting fed propaganda? What other propaganda am I getting fed? What information is real versus what's not? That is too much for some people to comprehend, to understand, to take the minute to and I don't blame them, that's a lot. I mean you are pretty much taking someone's life and like turning it upside down. I mean when everything, when Matt was first, when everything with Palestine was first, was first getting covered in October of last year and Matt and I were having conversations, I personally was really struggling with the fact of like, really just understanding of how much propaganda is just invested in our society and really having to take a step back. And I've been seeing it in so many other things that I just have never paid attention to before and it's slightly distressing, but so I think just multiple factors are playing into this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, julia, that was really well said and thank you for being so, I think, honest about where your process was right. Like so, when it first came up, you're saying like I didn't really wasn't really aware of it. You know, I remember when I, when the whole thing first happened and I heard about it, it I, I questioned it immediately because a lot of it just didn't make sense. I'm like some of this just sounds like way over the top, I think, with some work, but I also, to be fair, I also have a lot of years on YouTube, right. So, like, some of that is just like life experience, like you don't know what you don't know, right.
Speaker 2:So I, if I was younger, I probably would have been in the same boat. Like I probably would have been like, oh my god, that's like super awful and there is so much propaganda out there. That which is why they're so bent on getting rid of tiktok, because, I mean, facebook is really regulated and controlled as far as what you're going to see. I know instagram isn't as bad, but certainly I mean it's the same parent company, though, so it is, but they there is.
Speaker 2:Certainly you're going to seem like I've seen a lot of graphic stuff on instagram that you'll never see on facebook, like never, ever, ever. But when you're seeing like live videos coming out live we're not talking about like edited or any or at all of like screaming people being burned to death and like houses being destroyed and like looking at the the sheer pain and agony that are on these people's faces, like I can't support that. And I know again, I didn't watch the debate I know trump was heavily fact-checked. It sounds like harris wasn't fact-checked all because, from what I read afterwards was that she was spreading debunked propaganda about what was happening and like nobody was calling around on it and the fact that she's continuing to do that.
Speaker 2:The Biden Harris administration has taken more money from APEC than any other presidency in history and APEC is, you know, tooting all these winds about like owning our politicians history and APEC is tooting all these winds about owning our politicians. That's concerning, it's absolutely concerning, and the average person doesn't want to hear that. The other thing I saw recently, too, which shocked me, was I saw something about the average IQ in the United States was 98. And I thought that can't be real. That's got to be fake and, from what it looks like, that's accurate. Now, also, I do know that IQ tests are not culturally sensitive and there's a lot of.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can take it today and get a different score, but I certainly do believe that there has been a dumbing down of the population and you know whether that's captured in that score or not captured in that score and there is, as you said this, this sense of individualization where it's like I don't care what's happening in my backyard, as long as it's not happening to me, then it doesn't matter. But I just can't. My question is where are all the pro-life people right now? Where are all the people that are like you can't, you can't have abortions, it's killing kids, cause what we know is like, once the kids are born, nobody gives a shit, like nobody cares, right? And you see that now the large majority of these people being murdered are babies. I mean, they're wiping out entire family lines and then saying they're not doing it. We've had what the fifth person just self-immolated the other day in protest against Israel.
Speaker 2:The fifth person and it's not getting any media attention yeah, I saw that, and I saw that through tiktok yeah, that's because that's the only place you're going to see it, although you may find it on instagram, but, like it's, it's heartbreaking yeah I think this there's so much.
Speaker 3:So I did watch the debate. I've been conditioned by I grew up in a very politically active family so I mean I even have memories of like when my brothers and I were in middle school and we were watching the governor debate of Rhode Island and stuff like that. So like I think, to a sense, I've just been conditioned and I feel like I need to watch it. So I had it on and of course, I am on Twitter and like seeing what other people are saying while watching it, because I can't be paying full attention to it or else I'm going to have steam coming out of both of my ears. And I think, to your point, that you're correct.
Speaker 3:Like Trump was fact-checked a decent amount of times and Harris was never fact-checked.
Speaker 3:But I think the difference and I'm not saying it's right, but the difference is that the lies and the messages that are getting spewed from Trump's mouth are so egregious.
Speaker 3:I mean he's saying that immigrants are eating animals, like let's just dehumanize them even more. He's also saying that people can have abortions after birth, like a post-birth abortion is a thing. So it's just like all these, just so you're listening to all these messages and then you've got the propaganda in the back of your mind saying well, if you don't vote for harris, trump's gonna win and this is what it's gonna be. So I'm still and like very struggling with the fact of like having those two messages be in the back of my mind, not agreeing with a lot of the political stances that harris has shown support for, but also struggling with the message of like okay, but, but if I don't vote for Harris, is Trump going to be in office? And then, like, is that what we're going to have to deal with? And we're going to have to deal with a crazy, just as crazy person in the vice president.
Speaker 2:Listening to you talk and you know, obviously I know you very well, julia so I know you are a very caring and compassionate person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know that you too as well, cora. When, when I hear you say the stuff about like he's telling egregious lies and he is and you know something we know I have heard that said about many different like I remember when I was ever living in California and they were saying that I think it was Vietnamese and Laotian people were eating cats and dogs. Like we have heard this, the same trope played out so many times about different minority groups to try to get people to hate them. No-transcript.
Speaker 3:No, you're completely right, matt, completely completely, and I think that this is like this really goes back to like all the messaging that the average American is receiving is just straight propaganda. And I, yeah, I just, oh, I, it's so hard, I, but I'm glad that we're having this conversation, because every like people aren't able to have these conversations, you're not able to sit down with your family or friends and like have these deep conversations unless you know that you're all on the same page, because it's so just, there's so much turmoil, something that the other person doesn't agree with. There's no ability to talk about it, to understand the other person's point of view. It's like an automatic, like hard stop, shut down.
Speaker 2:That's it. That's by design. I really think that's by design, though I don't think we have to agree. I think we have to have the conversations. I mean, I know, growing up, when I grew up, the message was always like you don't talk about politics, you don't talk about religion, you don't talk about how much money you're making at work, because those are all things that are super toxic that we need to talk about. So the message is like don't talk about any of them so that nothing ever changes. Cora, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:You and I were talking about the other day, matt, just how we need to be creating like an environment where people can have these conversations without completely shutting down, and I think I'm pretty sure you had said something to me about how shutting down is actually a response to PTSD, you know, just like completely going into lockdown and not being able to express your feelings or your emotions or your point of view.
Speaker 1:So what I would love to hear from both of you is just how can we start having these conversations, like because I was recently around family members who I like care about greatly, and because facts are skewed so often. You know, like one person said something and I tried to say something else and immediately, like you, could feel the tension in the room. We weren't arguing, we were just disagreeing, right, they said one thing, I said another thing, and then it was like this awkward, like standstill. And then it was like this awkward, like standstill. And then somebody else in the family tried to like cut the tension by saying well, I think like the higher powers want us to disagree. So I think you both have good hearts, but I think that the systems are trying to make you disagree and I appreciated them trying to, like you know, find some ground for us to be on. But in that moment I was so upset that my facts, my facts right, quote, unquote, weren't being heard or respected and I couldn't like go forward with the conversation.
Speaker 2:That's I don't know. I do want to preface this by saying I don't have answers, right, like I don't think anybody does. Yeah, so it's all just opinion based and, through my own lens of, like what I've seen, I agree with you. I do think it's by design that we are in this battle. I guess we should say like this is both an internal battle and like an external battle. There's this dilemma that it reminds me of with a train, right, I think the dilemma is you know, there's a train and there's a person who's going to die on track A and there's like 10 people that are going to die on track B. You know B and you have to make a decision as to, like, where the train's going to go. Right, it's like an impossible scenario, but there's a third solution, and the third solution is you derail the train, and I think we have to start thinking outside the box and remembering that fundamentally. I would imagine most of the people that are in our lives, that we choose to be in our lives, are there because we share the same values, meaning we all agree that killing people is bad. I think a lot of us would agree on that. I think, like I said, 67 of the country would agree on that. So, if we can find that common ground and stop with all the fighting like because it comes out of a place, I think it comes out of a place of two things. One, powerlessness, because we're all powerless. There's certainly, um, we do not make choices, like in the like, we do not have the ability to do that. You see this in every government. It happens over and over again. History repeats itself and we know where this is going to end. That. You see this in every government. It happens over and over again. History repeats itself and we know where this is going to end up, because it ends up in the same place every single time. Don't know when it's going to end up that way, but it's going to end up the same way every other place has ended up. What I think we need to do is stop approaching it from a place of anger and try to approach it from a place of compassion and caring.
Speaker 2:One of the people who was responding to me on Facebook is a cousin of mine and the other one is a friend of mine and, of course, there was part of me that's really angry that they support genocide and although they won't say that they are supporting genocide, Because if you were voting for somebody that supports genocide, you support genocide. But I also know that they are coming from a place of fear. Fear because they do believe that their rights are going to be taken away, and I think that that's true. So, instead of getting angry, I really was just like look, I respect you, I get where you're coming from. It's not, I mean, it's very valid.
Speaker 2:We can fight two battles at once, though, like we can fight genocide and we can fight for rights. It isn't a one or the other, and I think if we look at it as a one or the other, that's where we start to get divided, because if every single like, if people out there really want harris to win, like if you're really pro harris, then contact her and say no ceasefire, no vote. Like, if enough people do that, maybe she'll change her stance. And then, because, ultimately, again, it does. It's not about us, right, we are. She is going to let trump win, not us. Her right, the biden minutes, the biden harris administration. If they don't make different changes, they are abdicating the election. I mean, I don't, I mean that, again, that's my opinion on it. I don't know if that answered your question, cora.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I really like that you. I have such a tendency to go in and into my little groups or to be in my own mind, so I like that your point of view is much more general and broad for the country. I guess what I was thinking about was how, you know, if we can't even have conversations with our own family members or people that we love, then how do we get to the next step, which would be disruption or, you know, protest? So I guess I was thinking a little bit more about like what would be helpful to our listeners in terms of like strategies to foster conversation, like difficult conversations about politics.
Speaker 3:I think Matt made some like great points and what he was saying of like really opening a conversation about it and not in a way of like wanting to start an argument or coming at it of an in a lens of like anger or fear, but more coming from a lens of like I want to understand. I remember my freshman year of college. I went to New Hampshire. So growing up in Rhode Island, growing up in a very liberal family, going to New Hampshire, I went into a slight little shock culture shock, mainly because my main group of friends was very right with meaning and had all grown up in New Hampshire and it didn't change my opinion on wanting to be their friends. I was their friend the entire year.
Speaker 3:But I also got myself into some slightly uncomfortable conversations with multiple of my friends just because we had vastly different views. I mean, trump was in office at the time and so a lot of conversations were coming up about gun control, about human rights, other things like that. And I just remember one of my really good friends, him and I had complete polar opposite views, like he was one of the only people that I could sit down and have a conversation with and be like tell me why you think this. Like I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm not trying to force you to be whatever other way, but like I just want to understand because, at the end of the day, I'm your friend.
Speaker 3:I know to matt's point, I know we have similar values and morals, but why are we so divided on this? And him and I still communicate to this day? And like he's reached out to me and has said Julia, you are one of the only people I've really been able to have a conversation with about politics who has a different viewpoint from me. Because I never felt disrespected by you. You never called me stupid, you never called me dumb. He was like I never felt disrespected. I just felt like we could have an open conversation and that still sticks with me.
Speaker 1:I think that's good feedback. Yeah, because people don't give good positive feedback A lot of times you have these conversations like a lot of times you leave one of these conversations feeling so negative You're like I'm not going to have that conversation again. So I think that's like really awesome. And maybe that's like a part of this is trying to be a little bit more positive when we have the conversation, just to say I respect what you're saying, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3:And I don't think it's the end goal. I mean, I definitely think that in the future we can take more steps and start to challenge other people's opinions, but if we can't even have a conversation with someone and they feel comfortable enough to share their point of view and like open enough to have that conversation, like we can't even take that next step of making sure we're all on, like getting to the point where we're all on the same page. So I think just starting to which by design word like Matt was saying, like you were saying you're told don't talk about politics, don't talk about religion, don't talk about money Really kind of disengaging that and wanting to have those conversations and not coming from a place of like I'm trying to change your opinion, but more of like help me understand why you think this way or why you are so supportive of this candidate or of this political movement or whatever it may be.
Speaker 1:No, I like that a lot.
Speaker 2:I think you both made some really great points, corey. To go back to what you said earlier with the PTSD response, the desire to put the head in the sand and be like, okay, I don't see any of it A lot of people are doing that, and a lot of people are doing that because they are inundated with trauma day in, day out. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I do think in order for us to stop doing that, we do have to start feeling. But we have to feel that we do have to start feeling. But we have to feel what's true versus what's not true.
Speaker 2:And there's an overwhelming sadness I think that is pervasive in this country that is being masked with anger, and again, that that's true with PTSD. Right Like, anger feels powerful for most of us and I know I said this in a previous episode but when you're angry you really feel like you can just kind of conquer the world and like you're going to make all these changes. But usually it comes out of stuff you're going to regret. So I don't most people when they act out of anger myself included. When you step back and you, you kind of reflect after the fact, you feel a lot of guilt and remorse about the way you act. But when we do things out of vulnerability and when we do things out of sadness, like honoring that, most of the time we make better choices that we don't necessarily regret. And you, julia, with the circumstance you were talking with your friend, you both already had a mutual respect and that mutual respect was the foundation for that conversation to be able to happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not all relationships have that mutual respect and it's hard to do when only one of you has it so like if one of you is coming from a place where you're being respectful and you're being compassionate and you're being kind and the other person is full of rage and anger, you're not going to get through it in that moment, but that doesn't mean something that you say if you're coming from a place of vulnerability and compassion, isn't going to seep into their unconscious and come out later on. I have certainly seen a shift. I have been just reposting a lot of videos on my timeline about stuff that's happening like you know families being killed, like eyewitness accounts, like doctors talking about the horrible things they've seen happen with kids and just the way that they are spinning the media to make it sound like Palestinians are like subhuman and the way that they're talking about the difference between people who are professional victims and people who are actual victims and the difference in the way they're spinning those narratives. And I've seen some people who were heavily posting Harris stuff stop and they are. You know you can track who's watching your stories and these people have been watching my stories and they're not posting it anymore.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's a coincidence. It could be a coincidence. It could be that stories and these people have been watching my stories and they're not posting it anymore. I don't know if that's a coincidence. It could be a coincidence. It could be that they're really having a hard time themselves now saying like, okay, I just can't turn a blind eye to this. And there's certainly a lot of similarities between the nationalism and the insanity behind Trump supporters and what's happening with Harris right now Very similar stuff, like people are overlooking that she's making poor choices and she's doing terrible things and putting her you know, dressing her up like the statue of liberty and like captain America and like it's that same propaganda. Yeah, I, it's that same propaganda.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that there's so much there. But I think it's also difficult when having these conversations of really feeling the sense of sadness and the sense of defeat after talking about this because to a sense, you would we'd, you do feel slightly hopeless, you do feel slightly that, like, your vote doesn't necessarily matter, that the decisions are already made and that politicians and leaders of our country are not listening to the average everyday American. But to your point, matt, I really it's by design. I mean, if you just even thinking about term limits and everything like that, like the politicians that are supposed to represent us are so, so, so, so far removed that the fact that we have a vice president candidate, tim Walz person ever because he has a relationship with his children and the most of the politicians that we have seen in the past few years don't, don't have a personality, don't see that. So all of a sudden it's like appalling that we have someone on the ticket that yeah shows some form of human emotion.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, julia. It's like bare minimum, right. All they need is bare minimum. Our original topic about people who were in prison for drug related crimes and then they get out and they have felony histories and they can't get jobs. But if you have a felon history you can become president and run for office. I mean, we know this locally. I mean buddy cnc like he was a criminal and he kept getting reelected and you know you can't work at mcdonald's if you have a felony history you can't work at. You know you get like drug tested. But we can run for the highest office in the country. If you have a felony. What the hell is wrong with this country office in the country? If you have a felony, what the hell is wrong with this country? And people are okay with that. It's just it's mind-numbing. Cora, since you're the only parent here, what's that like for you as a? As a parent, just like I know you had mentioned earlier? Like not knowing what to tell your kids, but seeing where this is heading.
Speaker 1:I mean it's scary. I've got some older relatives that are constantly like, oh, I feel bad for you. You're raising kids. In all of this and forever, I've just been like, no, I love my kids, like the kids are the best thing ever, like I just really enjoy parenthood. But um, now, right now, I'm feeling like, um, there's just a lot of pressure on me to give them the right answers, or when I don't have the right answers and there aren't right answers, so that's one thing that feels kind of off.
Speaker 2:Um although there is power in admitting you don't know yeah, yeah I mean, that's a huge lesson to learn. Is that it's okay to not know?
Speaker 1:right, right, um, but I I definitely just try to like oh, my kids are in elementary school and middle school, so there's a lot of like civics lessons and when, when they ask me questions, I try to push back a little bit and really kind of say like, well, this is what they say the checks and balances are. But that's not really true and you have to look at some of the bigger picture stuff. So I try to explain to them just stuff I've learned recently and sometimes I'm embarrassed to say that, but it's true I didn't realize to the extent of how much money plays into politics and how much control corporations have in all of this. So I have those conversations with my kids a lot this.
Speaker 3:So I have those conversations with my kids a lot. I think it's also so important, cora, like you're, you're having that open dialogue with your kids. Like you're, you're modeling and you're showing like, hey, these are okay conversations to have, and if you have questions, like I'm here to answer them, or also to say like if you don't know to be, like I don't know either, and I think modeling, that is so just amazing and important, because not a lot of parents are doing that, because the conversation is uncomfortable and it's like, okay, it's just better not to talk about it, not to worry about it, cause I don't know.
Speaker 1:I will share this, which was one of my favorite parenting moments. The kids were like I don't know two and four or something like that, and I brought them to vote with me and they all got like stickers.
Speaker 1:And then everybody all my like parent friends were like posting pictures of themselves with their kids voting and it just that felt like fresh and different to me because my parents never did anything like like we weren't engaged in the political process at all, and even though it was just a sticker, my kids still really like going to vote with me, and I think that is something, something small.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that that's amazing. I think it's actually something.
Speaker 2:I think it's actually something big, cora. I wouldn't say it's something small, I think it's something big. I mean, we've talked about a lot of heavy topics and I certainly am feeling emotional myself. There's been a couple of times I've had to really concentrate to not get emotional. I mean, let's face it, I've cried on episodes before. I'm okay with that, but I can feel it kind of welling up. I also did have a very emotional weekend, as you guys know. I went to a men's retreat which I can talk about at some other time and was emotional quite a few times there. Which, to me, feels like that's how we get to the place of healing is to be emotional and to recognize it's not okay. It isn't. I think we are all trying to convince ourselves it's okay, which is causing that disconnect.
Speaker 2:You know, back to what you said earlier, julia. You know or maybe it was your core, I don't remember when you were talking about term limits. I mean, I personally think we should vote out all incumbents, like every single one of them senators, republicans, senators, senators, congressmen if they've been in common, get them out, because they're all, they're all compromised, they're all corrupt, they're all just shades of bought out. And I think you know we, we need to just rebuild it. I don't know if that's going to ever happen because I don't think enough people will commit to that, but you know, certainly they need to go.
Speaker 2:They failed I mean, they have proven they have failed. So how are you going to? So, to wrap up, because it has been emotional and hopefully for the people listening, I hope it's touched something in you wherever you stand. And again, as I said earlier, I'm not telling anybody what to do. You have to vote with your conscious. You have to vote with what you believe is right. I can only speak for myself and just what I do, what I'm willing to support and not willing to support. So what are you, what are the two of you, going to do to practice self-care?
Speaker 1:Ooh, I love self-care. You know I'm a self-care kind of lady Me too. That's a really good question, Matt, and I just want to say like I appreciate both of you sharing your political views, because it is hard just to own your political views, so sharing those views is really helpful to me and helps me learn and understand other people's perspectives. Self care, Julia. Do you have any? I'm going to think about it for a sec.
Speaker 3:Yeah, think about it. Let me think about what self-care the fortunate part with me is that we're going through grad school and everything they always preach self-care and I am lucky enough to just have multiple hobbies. I like doing and trying new things, so I've not had a difficult time like trying to find hobbies or things to do to distract myself. I've been still in the thick of reading fantasy books.
Speaker 2:I love that for you, Julia. I love that.
Speaker 3:I'm reading a book about dragons right now. It's amazing. I'm obsessed. It's full escapism, but that has been so. I'm literally reading a book about dragons and crocheting.
Speaker 2:That has been my self-care and I love it, it I like both of those things julia, we're gonna have to tap into some of your craftiness because the listeners for you I know you guys don't know this, but we're gonna rebrand the logo, um, and we have, uh, some ideas for that and, julia, we're gonna need your craftiness so I know, I know I'm gonna have to maybe tap into a different craft or start seeing if I can like crochet, a tapestry or something and we're not telling people what the logo is, but we have a. We have a really great idea for it, are you?
Speaker 1:crafty. Yeah, actually. Well, I went to art school way, way back in the day, so yeah, I think then you are Okay cool.
Speaker 3:I was going to say definitely crafty then.
Speaker 2:Cora, what are you going to? Did you think about something you're going to do for self-care?
Speaker 1:I'm actually going to really push myself today because I've been saying it for a really long time. But I think I'd really like to find a volunteer project in Rhode Island that I could do with my kids. To find a volunteer project in Rhode Island that I could do with my kids and that would maybe help me feel a little bit better about just life in general. So I'm going to try to do that today.
Speaker 3:I love that. I think that's an amazing. How about you, Matt?
Speaker 2:Well, as you know, I'm going to Italy, so that's all I actually was joking.
Speaker 2:I found a t shirt that says looking for my Italian husband and I was gonna wear it. But one of my Italian friends was, like, don't wear that, you're gonna, they're gonna kidnap you. Maybe I won't wear it. Won't wear it, um, but something. But in all seriousness, something I have been doing and I highly recommend it for everybody is I've been hiking a lot, so I've been just exploring the woods, on trails, and I bought a book on southeastern um, oh my god, new england. I drew a blank there for like ruins in the areas that you can find.
Speaker 2:So I I went like hiking to look for ruins and you're really just spending time in nature and just observing it, like listening to the water and like listening to the, and especially now because you can even watch the leaves falling yeah, you know and listening to the wildlife. It's so relaxing and just peaceful and it feels like I can be there for like an hour and it feels like I've been there for 10 hours. It just it's almost like timeless. And I just I love it.
Speaker 1:So the other day I went outside to have my coffee in the morning and I just sat and there were, like you know, squirrels and chipmunks and rabbits and all different kinds of birds, and I was just like, oh my God, like it's fall, like things are moving and migrating and changing and harvesting, and it just felt really awesome and I was just in my backyard, which is very tiny and just a little lawn, so you don't have to go too far, but that sounds awesome too to take an extra trip before we wrap up, I also want to do.
Speaker 2:either one of you have anything, I say what you want to say. Before I wrap up, I want to give a shout out to some listeners, because there are some listeners that have been really faithfully following us. Um. So a shout out to virginia, because we have somebody there that's following us pretty consistently in New York, washington State. We've got a lot of people that are following us there Germany, italy Some really just very dedicated listeners. I see you, I know you're there, and I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart that you guys are actively listening and following. I would love to hear from any one of you as to topics that you have or feedback or stuff you would like us to address. So again, I see you and I know you're there and I really appreciate it and we all do.
Speaker 3:Thank you, yes, yes, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you everybody. Until next time. Although I may not be on that episode, everybody have a great, great week. Bye everyone. Although I may not be on that episode, everybody have a great, great week. Bye everyone. Hello everybody and thank you again for listening. This is just a reminder that no part of this podcast can be duplicated or copied without written consent from either myself or Wendy. Thank you again.
