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United States of PTSD
Season One: Mental health concerns are on the rise in the United States. This podcast will look at the influencing factors contributing to the decline of our culture. With the rise of school shootings, political divisiveness, increasing levels of hate, and a chronic war of peoples' rights, we have entered a domestic war that never ends. Our podcast will look at whether this is done by design or is it an abject failure. We will discuss it from a clinical and common-sense perspective. Secondarily we will discuss ways to protect yourself from being further traumatized. Hosted by Matthew Boucher LICSW LCDP (licensed in RI) who has over 20 years of experience working with people who have addictions and trauma with a specialty of pregnant/postpartum women. Co-host Wendy Picard is a Learning and Development consultant with 15 years of experience, lifelong observer of the human condition, and diagnosed with PTSD in 1994.
Season Two: Is joined by Donna Gaudette and Julia Kirkpatrick BSW. Julia is currently working on obtaining her MSW and her LCSW. She is a welcome addition to the podcast.
Season Three: Cora Lee Kennedy provided research and worked as a temporary co-host. Dr. Erika Lin-Hendel joins as a co-host for season 3.
United States of PTSD
S 3 E:14 An Immigrant Story: Erased Histories: Ukraine's Past, Present, and Uncertain Future
Kate, a Ukrainian immigrant living in the US for 25 years, shares her journey navigating American systems while maintaining deep connections to her homeland during Russia's ongoing invasion.
• Describes how Russian cultural dominance and systematic erasure of Ukrainian identity extends back centuries, not just since 2014
• Explains coming to America as a young widow seeking opportunities for her child
• Details the challenges of navigating the American legal system as an immigrant mother
• Recounts her 15-year battle for child custody and support, costing over $130,000
• Shares experience supporting another immigrant woman escaping domestic violence
• Discusses using photography and art to raise awareness about Ukraine's ongoing struggle
• Emphasizes that immigrants enhance American society and aren't seeking handouts
• Advocates for more accessible legal support for immigrant women fleeing abuse
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/hartzmann/no-time-to-die
License code: S4CEQWLNQXVZUMU4
Artwork and logo design by Misty Rae.
Special thanks to Joanna Roux for editing help.
Special thanks to the listeners and all the wonderful people who helped listen to and provide feedback on the episode's prerelease.
Please feel free to email Matt topics or suggestions, questions or feedback.
Matt@unitedstatesofPTSD.com
This podcast is not intended to serve as therapeutic advice or to replace any professional treatment. These opinions belong to us and do not reflect any company or agency.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody and welcome back to another episode of the United States of PTSD. I wanted to welcome back Dr Erica Hendel, who is going to be helping me as a co-host for the rest of season three. Thank you, erica, and welcome back.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're most welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and thanks to everyone for listening in and also thank you for lining up these great guest speakers that we have, and you'll introduce our guest speaker today.
Speaker 2:But before that I just wanted to do a quick PSA. So if you live in the New England area, connecticut, rhode Island, new Hampshire, massachusetts, right now, there appears to be there's rumblings that they are concerned there's a possible serial killer on the loose, because they have found, I think, seven bodies now that are all women and have been connected to hiking trails. So be very careful. They're not officially saying it's a serial killer yet, but there certainly is a lot of speculation around it. So, as somebody who is an avid hiker, make sure you are safe, carry, you know, carry what you need to carry with you, whether it's bear spray, pepper spray, or, if you live in a state where you can be armed, let somebody know where you're going. It's a good idea to share your location and tell at least one person where you're going and just obviously be cautious and aware of your surroundings. And that is my PSA for that. So, erica, I will defer back to you.
Speaker 1:All right, it is my great pleasure to be having this conversation with Kate today. Kate is from Ukraine and is a citizen United States citizen and so we share a lot of interests and we share similar things that we care about. We met with our common love of art and ocean, and through this time we've talked about many things, and she utilizes her art and photography to empower people. We have hopes to work together, and she's just an incredible human being and here to talk to us about her experiences in the United States, being someone an immigrant in the United States and a naturalized citizen and her experiences a Ukrainian living through this time and witnessing these things while also carrying things that she has in the past.
Speaker 3:So, um, thank you for being here hi, erica, thank you very much for inviting me and thank you for your kind words. Yes, I'm kate and I'm from ukraine. I've been in the united states for almost 25 years. I can call it my country now and I'm a citizen. I'm a mother. Kids are grown up, so that part is kind of behind and I find a lot of joy and pleasure doing art.
Speaker 3:Now. I'm now meeting many wonderful people through this adventure and also trying to make sure or find my way to utilize art to raise awareness for people of Ukraine to the events in Ukraine. So that's my current reality every day, you know, since actually 2014,. Around that time, I constantly watch news, talk to my friends by there and, of course, you know, after full invasion in 2022, there is no single day when I would not think about what's going on there, especially because I'm from eastern part of Ukraine. That's where most you know active battles happening and sharing, so it's also everything that's very dear to my heart. Of course, it has its own impact on my mental state and everyday life.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that, and thank you so much for pointing out how this didn't start in February of 2022 and that this started back in 2014 with the illegal annexation, shall we say, of Crimea.
Speaker 3:Of Crimea. That's correct. It actually started even earlier, or it would be right to say it never stopped what Russia did to Ukrainian people. It goes on centuries, you know.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that correction. When you think about your time before leaving and then coming to the United States and this arc, what if there was something that you would share that you find is like this perspective of like it's been going on since always right, where? What would you say to kind of the average American citizen that might not have that knowledge?
Speaker 3:I left Ukraine for a specific reason. I lost my husband. He passed away very early and I was a young widow with a child on my hands and at that time I just didn't want to stay there. And, of course, the United States was always presented as a dream country. Everything is easy here. It was mostly based on you know what we saw on TV, right, I did not think much about where I'm going, what's ahead. I also met my ex-husband, so basically brought me here. But sorry, what was your question?
Speaker 1:oh well, let's, let's continue on this path. As far as your journey here because I think um understanding, like when you came here and, yes, you know your experience here is important I remember.
Speaker 3:And what I want American people to know that all these lies about Russians being persecuted or pressured there. It's not true. It is not true. I'm actually Russian-speaking Ukrainian At that time. My dad is from Siberia, so he is he's Russian right, but the family spent most of the time in Ukraine.
Speaker 3:I was born in Ukraine, I was raised in Ukraine and never, ever, we felt any pressure for not speaking Ukrainian or something. At the time, everything was like in Russian. Russian culture would come first. We would have only a couple of days at school to learn Ukrainian and, on top of everything, I was the only single student in school who was excused from studying Ukrainian just because my family lived in Russia, and somebody decided that I don't need Ukrainian. Why I was so privileged, I don't know. I had no issues. I was studying, I participated in all, but that was the reality of that time.
Speaker 3:And then things started changing and when I graduated from high school, it was when the Soviet Union fell apart and that's when they started introducing more of Ukrainian culture. And at first we were actually resisting, because everything that is forcibly put on you, you kind of resist to those changes. But looking back and you know, I'm much older now, and especially like you come to the United States, you speak English, you learn English, you learn history. Nobody is English. You learn history. Nobody is questioning is it right or wrong? Right, it's normal.
Speaker 3:So at some point I was starting questioning myself and other people like why is it a big deal for Ukrainians to want to speak Ukrainian, right? Or why is it a big deal that Ukraine has its own history? It was wiped. They tried really hard to wipe it out and wipe identity and even for people who are like 10, 15 years younger than me, they already learned and know much more about Ukrainian history than we did because we were not taught. And when I talk to them right now, they're looking at me like how come you don't know that?
Speaker 3:I said no, I never knew that that was not what was presented to us at that time. But Ukraine is a beautiful country with rich history, which was not wiped out completely. You know they were able to preserve it, but they were trying and still trying, really hard.
Speaker 2:Kate, you brought up so many great topics, but I want to go back first because, first of all, I want to acknowledge that this is difficult for you to talk about, and I also want to acknowledge that I'm sorry about the loss of your husband as well.
Speaker 2:One of the first things you had stated which I heard from I've heard this from other people you said you had this expectation about what the United States was going to be like, and I remember I had a student years ago. She was from Africa, I don't remember what country she was from I think it may have been Ghana, but this was like probably six or seven years ago and she had this impression that the United States was going to have a streets paved of gold and like kind of all of these big things. Cause that's what she was told and she had said when she got here, she was very astonished by how, like, how rude people were to her when she got here. She was very astonished by how, like, how rude people were to her when she got off the plane and like how it wasn't what she expected. So I don't know if you had like a similar experience or if that's something that, um, you can relate to um, it was definitely different, uh, from what I expected, and you definitely feel it immediately.
Speaker 3:I mean when I say feel it, I mean I refer to that time, right, so it was. It was very different from what I used to see. I wasn't well traveled, I was not exposed to many other cultures many and of course I was a product of that time that culture that I would say all of Russians, ukrainians, post-soviet people. We felt like we're superior, maybe like this right, and there is a lot of joke. They still feel like that, especially russians, you know, they might have nothing, they might have restaurants outside right, they might not have paved roads, but they would still be there saying like you're stupid americans, we will show you how things are done. It's laughable, but that's what it is. And definitely when I came out of the plane, everything was different and you're an immigrant. They don't say like welcome home or welcome here. I don't think things change much now, but you face and trust, you face questions and it's pretty intimidating to come here first time as an immigrant or even a visitor because of that uncertainty.
Speaker 2:And I can only feel for people who come here now or decide not to come okay, the other really interesting, I think important thing you had mentioned was how history gets erased right and how we don't talk about certain things, and then, of course, the implementation of propaganda and how that spreads. I was I just recently showed a video in one of my classes that was called how to Survive a Plague and it was about the AIDS epidemic in the 80s, and I was actually really shocked for two things. One, by how many students in the class didn't even know there was an AIDS epidemic in the 80s. That was problem number one, which I was very shocked by. But the other thing that I thought was fascinating was listening to the, because it was a documentary and it did take the place over the course of 10 years. How nothing really changes.
Speaker 2:So there were parts where they were blaming immigrants for the AIDS virus as well. Like there's always this blame and shift onto others, right, like, and it's the narrative is always always the same. I think of covid and how, like you know, trump called it the china virus. Like we're always trying to um vilify people who are from different countries erroneously. We erroneously vilify them, but we need to stop doing that.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, and again, I didn't have it that difficult, I would say, because I'm white, right, I don't look any different from average American. But I always feel for people that you don't even need, they not even ask, they immediately assume that they're foreigners because they look different, they speak different, stuff, like that. So, yes, we all, we don't know what we're not told, right, and it takes some efforts to go and find the information. Educate yourself, which is what we're doing now most of the time, right, and being being curious and being, like, exposed to both ukrainian and russian culture and watching old news like firsthand. I don't need this to be translated by american outlets, right, I can hear it firsthand and, oh my god, like I would. I don't watch russian tv, but here and there you know some news. It's like all this propaganda, the way they twist the truth and what's right now on TV and how things are being presented it's so similar, it's just astonishing and mind-blowing.
Speaker 3:They are experts at the use of headlines, because they know that people don't just necessarily read an article.
Speaker 2:They just read a headline.
Speaker 1:I'm going to take a moment because when you talked about this cultural erasure, I think it's important to note, as far as that is part of this, um, genocide like definitions, right, um, and so I appreciate so much all like the, the greater context that you are sharing with us um, but I do I would do want to mention specifically for our audience that you can go look at the un genocide prevention sites that have the definitions of genocide and also also the clarity around the you know classification and the international recognition of what has happened in Ukraine, that Russia has violated international law repeatedly and also that this aspect of destroying the culture, erasure and some of the forcible transferals of children that they've engaged in is resulting in that classification, and I just appreciate how you can bring that larger context that kind of reaffirms what has been happening.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and again, like it's not the first time, ukraine fought hard to get the international society to recognize genocide that was happening in the 1930s, because they didn't want. And in particular my own grandmother. She was laying in bed swollen from hunger. They had nothing to eat. They were making soup out of just grass. They were basically eating grass just to survive and it was famine that was artificially made for people, and especially Ukraine. Ukraine is a basket of Europe. Ukraine has, you know, all those soil, very, very fertile soil, and they grow lots of produce, and you know everything was taken from people and, and you know everything was taken from people and people. Lots of people died and it was not acknowledged properly.
Speaker 3:And what's happening now. That's genocide. There are almost 20,000 people, if not more, were taken away from Ukraine to Russia, were taken away from Ukraine to Russia. Some kids get adopted, which is like when they still have parents alive and Ukraine is fighting hard to return those kids. I want to believe that they will be able to get all of them, but I'm also very skeptical when and how it will happen, and you know it will take years and damage is done. So it's very. Everything is very heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:I agreed when you brought up children. It makes me think of because, again, the importance of knowing history is that it repeats itself, which is why we really need to be conscious of, like how these things happen all the children that disappeared here when their parents were deported or taken away. I mean, there's a lot of children that have gone missing it breaks my heart.
Speaker 3:I feel for. I feel for every child and I feel for every parent. I physically feel the pain and all those emotions they're going through. And what I want to emphasize immigrants are not criminals. They're just people who want a better life for themselves, for their children, and being an immigrant in this country in my opinion, it makes you more careful, more cautious. You're like more low obedience than maybe average American people, because you're afraid of lots of things. And to put a stamp on you and claiming that you're a criminal, it's wrong claiming that you're a criminal.
Speaker 1:It's wrong Because we're talking about this. The legal system, right, and the legal complexity and, like you mentioned, right, the delay, right, the years that it can take to try and just address the harm that has already been done, or the separation and other aspects of how the legal system, you know, if we look at the context of the United States and your experience of it, as you know, an immigrant and as a woman, I know that there are things that you have to share that I think are really important for our audience to hear, to provide that context and awareness of the fact that in some ways, we do have a legal system that impacts people differently in this country based off of your status, your ways. That marginalized identity shows up and particularly with immigrants and people who English is not their first language.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, legal system is very I don't even know how to call it. I had a very difficult experience navigating a legal system. At the same time, I had some positive experience and I had good lawyers and I had bad lawyers, and I had people who were trying to make my life hard here and people, complete strangers, who were helping me along the way. But as a mother, as a foreigner, you immediately lose an accord, especially if you have a man who's fighting you and fighting you not for the best children of your best interest of your children. He's just fighting you because he's fighting you. He's not fighting for children. And in this case, I had this belief and everybody around me used to tell me oh, american court, they're always like on the mother's side. No, they are not. They are not and it was just eye opening. And again, we're talking about 20 years ago, right? So I want to believe that things changed to better. But I spent. I spent like 15 years in this system while I was fighting for the custody of my son and as well as child support Saga. So I've seen a lot and I've seen other women going through similar issues and most of them, if you don't have representation right away, which most of them don't. If you don't know how the system works and of course you don't because you're not raised here it's very difficult and I've seen mothers losing children just because they're in this disadvantaged position lack of English, lack of funds, lack of support and just the judge doesn't want to hear you. It's a lot of work to actually look into case and think about it and usually that side who can present it better on the paper wins, unfortunately. I mean, I can talk hours about my experience and I can also talk hours about experience being in a shelter for battered women, which I would like to say. Thank you for this network because it is there for women who need help.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, not many women, like immigrant women, know about this system, but it is there, it is working. It takes a long time but if you stick to the system, you know they can help you. They can help you to you know, find the roof above your head. They can help you with food, your immediate needs, what you need when you leave your abuser, and they provide you with resources. Again, resources is good, but funds would be better, because free legal help is not always quality help and, from my experience, sometimes it makes them worse. But not everyone has access to a legal representation and can afford it and that's why a lot of women they do mistakes, partially because, again, like they don't know the system, they're not from here and don't necessarily work here the same way they imagine and it's been used against them. They're being I forget this word not painted, so they don't. They they might not have like bad will, but they're being misinterpreted and claimed as I don't know, bad parent or abusive parent or stuff like this. So it is difficult.
Speaker 2:To add to what you were just talking about. The population I worked with for a very long time was pregnant postpartum women who were using substances or had substance use disorders, and I can vouch for everything you just said in terms of the legal system. The legal system is incredibly sexist. It holds women, especially moms, to a higher standard and I have seen kids taken away in circumstances where it was a cultural issue or something that was culturally appropriate for that family and there's a reason why it's illegal I think it's in 14 states in this country to remove dogs, puppies from dogs before the age of eight weeks old because of how much damage it does to the puppy. But we don't have that same standard for people, which is terrible. But I 100% agree with you.
Speaker 2:I've seen that play out over and over and over again and you had brought up child support and I've seen that system too, where it's it's terrible. I've seen moms, you know, know, take tons of time out of work to go to, to go to court because the dad's not paying and then end up getting in trouble with their jobs because they're taking time out of work when the dad's not showing up at court. They just keep extending it and it's. It's just this nuts system, right that. So I mean I can't even imagine what that system would be like if you're not from the country and don't know how to navigate it Like that would be even worse, because it's hard to navigate even if you know what's happening.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for me it was a little bit better because by that time I already spoke English, I already could navigate, you know, around or ask for help. But some girls they don't even have that, like the one I was recently helping. She lived with an abuser. He was physically violent, he had weapons, he threatened her many times. They had twins, you know girls were like around one year old at that time, or a year and a half, and she asked for help in a facebook group and somehow I felt connected to her because it was very, um, like similar to what I went through and I knew that if she doesn't get that, she needs help. And I knew exactly what help she needs because I know step one, two, three, four. So I reached out to her and I said, like, if you're ready to leave your abuser, I can, I can help you, I can tell you, you know where to turn for help and what to do.
Speaker 3:So same day I showed up at her door. I had laptop on me, I had some money, I had some, you know, paper, I had all the necessities because she was, she needed to be ready to start the fight and I told her you what shelter network she needs to call and it was during COVID. So they offered a hotel room for her at that time. But it was something they put her away from that guy and I also saw her going through this legal unjust. The guy took away the car from her. She needed a car for her kids so we gave her our car. The guy put her off his deed so he sold the place. They lived. She got almost nothing and court they supported him. They didn't want to hear. You know that he was physically violent. She had pictures, everything, but he had respected attorney on his side and she had public representative which were like, kept changing. She had almost three or four attorneys. I remember that took her case over and over and she most like in many things he's paying. He's not even paying her. He left the country but at the time judge didn't want to listen to her and I even went to court with her. I wrote some legal documents for her because I wish that there was somebody at the time I was going through for me to help me, to help me understand what I need to do or even like support me mentally, or I mean there were people.
Speaker 3:People come to your life for reason, reason or lifetime, and I met different people for different purpose during my oh not adventure struggles. But all this very traumatic. And of course, it makes huge impact on your children because, unfortunately, my children instead of seeing me happy I tried, I didn't just have enough time for everything, but most of the time they saw me crying, staying up at nights, writing declaration after declaration, struggling to balance work and their school, doctors, entertainment, this and that, and I wanted to give them as much as I could but they couldn't do much at that time. And, of course, their consequences of course it impacted them. Of course they go through their own struggles and sometime I'm even being blamed for their I don't know lack of something that I ruined their I don't know lack of something that I ruined their childhood, and stuff like this which is very painful to hear. And of course, I get in defensive mode trying to remind them over and over that I was a victim of those circumstances and I did my best to go through and survive and provide. But I still think it's happy end for me.
Speaker 3:We survived, we went through that difficult time. My divorce cost me over $130,000 because my ex did everything he could just to delay, just to, I don't know, make it difficult. So I would. Sometimes I would come up with some amount of money I could pay the attorney. But and he's not alone I see this practice from lots of guys who are fighting their wives. They just delay this process until you run out of money to pay for your attorney and then they can come back and get you because you're not represented properly. Come back and get you because you're not represented properly.
Speaker 1:So, kate I, there are a couple of things that I want to reflect back. Number one your, like your direct action work that you just described in supporting this other human being is I am like I stand in like great appreciation and just I'm so honored to be connected to you um, because this level of systemic oppression and that is tremendous and also highlights, for example, like the Republican administration and Trump have declared English the official language of the United States. This removes funding for interpreters in the legal system. So the type of direct action work that you're describing as far as being present, being there, is something that is both tremendously powerful and so, for example, if anyone listening to this, if that's something that resonates with you and you can find a legal immigrant legal support organization that you can support in that way, or that you can send funding that way, that's really important. A lot of translators have been talking about this issue, and so you being part of that is just tremendous and thank you so much for sharing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the message I would like to send to women in this situation don't be afraid to talk about problems you're going through, don't be afraid to ask for help, because there are people who will help. Not everybody will, but and usually helps would come not from wealthy or established, or help will have will come from people who feel your pain, who went through similar events, who knows how it is to be on the street or to be worrying how to feed your children. There are people who will help and there is no shame in asking for that. But of course, you need to be like, genuine, because there are some people for example, when I was in a shelter, there were women who would just call there, say, oh, my boyfriend abused me and they would get a place to stay, food to eat and in some time, in a few days, they go back to those boyfriends or something. They were using this and abusing basically the system that was available. It was in place for people to help people, you know, who really need that help.
Speaker 2:So although I do think it's important to note that it does take, on average, a victim seven attempts to leave a relationship that's abusive before they leave. So it may also be that the people are not ready for that, because we see that a lot in a lot with addictions too, because, as we know, right now, addiction is considered a disease by the american medical association and it's about seven times that it takes somebody to get sober. So oftentimes, when they come into detox for four or five, six times, people are like, oh, they're not serious about their sobriety, they're just using a bed. But the reality is is that they're just not there yet. So I do also want to acknowledge that.
Speaker 2:But, I do think the other important part of that and when you talk about getting help, I think getting help is incredible and I think what you did is absolutely incredible I do think you have to for people. They have to be vigilant, because what I would see that happened to working with women in addiction is it was really common that they would find like an older man who would come in and like, rescue them Right, so they would. He would come in and give them a place to stay and, you know, give them resources and help them get on their feet, but then, as the that woman would start to get healthier. She didn't need him as much, so then she would start to, you know, change things and then what would inevitably happen is that same person that was helping her in the beginning would then sabotage her so that she went back to using so that he needed, so that she needed him again. So that's just.
Speaker 3:You got to be really careful of that as well yeah, that's, that's why, like going back to that girl, that's why I asked her if she's ready, if that's you know decision, because I warned her it's gonna be long road, it's gonna be a long way and it's gonna it's not gonna be easy way, but if you're ready, if you can go through, you can do it and she's in much better place right now. She she's got housing you know their organization help and she's got help for her children, because children have some mental issues, because the guy was, uh, abusing drugs, I think so. So there's some stuff and she's okay. She's navigating, she's on her feet.
Speaker 3:But we started from simple opening bank account for her, checking her credit history. She didn't know how to do it. She didn't know what PayPal is and I needed her to have PayPal because I organized fundraising and stuff like this. So I needed her to have PayPal because I organized fundraising and stuff like this. So I taught her basic things.
Speaker 3:You know, I basically put her on feed so she can move on and, honestly, at some point I needed to let her go, because it made such an impact on my mental health, because suddenly I found myself living her life. My family was put behind, my husband was put behind every because I only lived with, with her problems constantly and I still needed to work and care about my stuff. So some point it became too much on me and I said like, okay, girl, you have a reason, just move on and do it. You can do it and we stay friends. We, you know, we call to each other. I check on her not every day like it used to be, but you know she's dear to my heart and of course I wish all the best to them.
Speaker 1:I I very much appreciate your description and acknowledgement of what we call, like the the advocacy individual's self-care check plan right, that you have to find a balance and also make sure that you are also tending to the things that you need to tend to in yourself and also your own mental health. So thank you so much for like exemplifying that and describing it. I wanted to invite because I wanted us to open our conversation, shifting over to some of the future projects that you have planned for yourself and and talking about your work now in in advocacy work and how, how you feel people can continue to support both Ukrainian Americans as well as Ukraine and the things that you have envisioned and planning better and better, especially after my kids were out of the nest.
Speaker 3:I suddenly got a little bit more time for myself and I've got a new passion which I started to build on. But again, like the war continued, full invasion happened and I mentally struggled a lot because, on one hand, I wanted to create, I wanted to share my art with people, and, on the other hand, there was war and there was bad news every day and it was mentally very difficult for me and it was mentally very difficult for me. So I tried to combine my art Not combine, that is not the right word. I tried to use my art as a way of oh God, here is my English as a second language. I I don't have right words to describe my feelings, but basically what the artists can do, they, they speak this through their art, right? So when the world just broke I mean active faith and state, and I was planned to go on vacation and during my vacation time I happened to meet a girl from Ukraine and she was on the island and I came to the island with some Ukrainian props in order to create something to. I just needed to go back to my roots. I just needed to speak through my art, bring awareness or I don't know. I didn't really know what to do, I just wanted to do something. So we had a photo session with her. She modeled for me in Ukrainian, some Ukrainian like outfit, and then I had like few sessions with other girls. We would just dress in Ukrainian, again like clothes, put in Ukrainian dress on our. So that's where I find, that's how I can express myself.
Speaker 3:And also lately I was entertaining this idea. War left many people disabled and they're lucky that they're alive right. Lots of people were killed, but also lots of people lost their legs or arms, and this is young guys, young boys. It's tragedy. And I've been following some center in Western Ukraine who do free prosthetics for those people and I think about an idea to visit that center at some point in time and maybe have a photo session with them, maybe have a photo session with them. It should be a very powerful photo session with a very powerful message. I'm still trying to figure out how to present it, but I'd like to bring awareness of people not only of American people and around the world that you know the war is not over. Consequences of this war are going to linger for a long time.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't think it's ever possible to forgive Russia for what they did and I find myself in a difficult position to even communicate to Russian people, especially if they support Russia. You know, I have lots of friends and I'm always and some are very good people, but they mentally, whenever I hear Russian, it just puts me on alert immediately. I immediately want to check their position. Do they support Ukraine or not? Trying to figure out how I can communicate with them. So anyway, back to my projects.
Speaker 3:Yes, I want to create something powerful for people to keep supporting Ukraine. Ukraine needs help, ukraine needs a lot of help, a lot of support, and I feel so. I don't know if I should be ashamed for current government for turning their backs on Ukraine, but I am ashamed, I am devastated. There's all sorts of emotions. It's hard to believe that they are going to give up on Ukraine and just to watch how it's been, you know, wiped once again by Russia. It's been, you know, wiped once again by Russia. It's so unjust, it's so I mean it makes sense from Russian point. But you know, ukrainian people do not deserve it To blame Zelensky for starting the war, which he did not. It's like come on like what choir do you preach to? I don't know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, as an artist, like artists speak or talk through their art, and that's where I'm kind of am at this point and thank you for doing that, because art is and has always been powerful and it has been a way to like fight against the system too. So thank you for doing that. As somebody who's not creative at all in terms of like that type of art, I really appreciate it. I wish I could be, but I'm not, so thank you for doing that. And just in the last couple of minutes we have what what's? If you could, if trying to think how to phrase this is there something that you would want to talk to the listeners listeners about to help elicit empathy for people who are coming into the country or who are struggling with the immigration process?
Speaker 3:Yes, of course, and as I already said, those people are not criminals. Those people enhance this country. They bring every culture has something good to learn from, right, and we are all immigrants here. It's just a matter of time when our ancestors came here. So I guess Native Americans are the only people who can say, really say something, and the rest came here different period, different period of time, and so you cannot say like you're an american and somebody is not. But that's unfortunate reality. And being an american, having like lots of american I mean immigrant, uh, having lots of immigrant friends, we only enhance the experience in this country. We work for this country, right, we create in this country, and so it's not right to demonize and claim and blame people who come in seek of better life, which is not always what they find here.
Speaker 1:I grew up in an immigrant household. My parents are immigrants and I grew up in an immigrant community and I find like a lot of comfort in an immigrant community and I've been in such, you know, like you, in such distress and thank you. Thank you for this conversation, because this is also things that are close to my heart as far as an anti-war position, a how do we heal from conflict? And also how do we heal from conflict? And also how do we focus on creating just systems and how do we support people in this world who have experienced the lack of international justice, shall we say?
Speaker 3:Are you second generation or?
Speaker 1:First generation.
Speaker 3:So you are an immigrant yourself or your.
Speaker 1:No, my sorry. So um uh, second then. So my parents are, are immigrants?
Speaker 3:yes, oh yeah, I I I'm sure you're grateful to your parents for making this difficult decision because, uh, usually first generation have it hard and harder. And what would why we do it? We do it for our children. And going back to beginning, when I came here, just for example, in ukraine, at that time, after my husband passed away, I was eligible for some government support, right For some money, and the money I was getting was enough to pay for my daughter's daycare and her dance lessons. So that was it. And daycare, for example, just to compare, it didn't cost as much as it costs here. So it was like very little money I was getting and at that time I just thought like, oh my God, I won't be able to give my daughter future in Ukraine, so why don't I go in this dream country? Oh well, it was hard, but I gave her future.
Speaker 3:You know I cannot complain. She's in good state right now and everything eventually worked out. But it's really hard and again we do it with best interest of our children in mind and sometimes legal system doesn't really care about best interest but you keep fighting yes thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank, kate, thank you for giving us all of that information, and thank you for being here for our listeners. Um, we do have to wrap up, though, so I don't know if there's like any like final statement you wanted to make or not.
Speaker 3:We can, you know, talk to you guys and tell my story.
Speaker 2:Thank you, we so much appreciate it, and it's people like you who are willing to talk that, I think, help make the world a better place. So thank you for again sharing your story and giving people something to hear and relate to and understand, because that's the only way we're going to make changes. So thank you, and Erica, thank you as well, for setting this up, as always.
Speaker 1:Thank you for providing the space and thank you to the listeners for continuing to support the kind of work that Matt's been doing and the things that we're going to do together. So thank you, Kate, for being part of that and for giving people voice by sharing your story.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and thank you again for listening. This is just a reminder that no part of this podcast can be duplicated or copied without written consent from either myself or Wendy. Thank you again.
