United States of PTSD

S3 E: 26 When Empathy Becomes Policy: Food, Power, And The Cost Of Looking Away

• Matthew Boucher LICSW LCDP and Co-host Dr. Erika Lin-Hendel • Season 3 • Episode 26

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Starvation isn’t a metaphor—it’s policy made real. Erika and I sit down on Halloween.  A holiday that is ironically about asking for snacks from strangers.   We map how a government shutdown can remove the barely sustainable payment rails for SNAP, why many families get far less than a livable food budget, and how the benefits cliff punishes a $1 raise with thousands lost in childcare, healthcare, and food support. The math doesn’t lie, and neither do checkout lines when EBT systems fail. We break down the myths about “living off the system,” explain refeeding syndrome as a medical reality, and show why feeding people is both humane and fiscally smart.

From corporate welfare to the war economy, we follow the money that protects weapons over breakfasts and how retailers profit twice: underpaying workers who need benefits, then capturing those benefits at the register. Farmers are squeezed, small producers risk losing land, and shelters brace for pet surrenders as families choose between kibble and groceries. Through it all, we keep the focus on what works now: food banks with bulk buying power, mutual aid fridges that cut red tape, recurring micro-donations, and practical ways to add pet food to your giving so people can keep the companions that support their mental health.

We also honor Dr. Muath, a veterinarian in Gaza who cared for companion animals and working donkeys amid bombardment. His story reveals the human thread that ties war, hunger, and courage together—and why empathy should guide policy, not just sentiment. If you’re ready to replace outrage with action, this conversation offers clarity, context, and a path forward: fund your local pantry, support mutual aid, challenge casual classism, and push leaders to treat nutrition like the public infrastructure it is. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review telling us how you’re supporting food access in your community.

Help Dr. Muath | Animal Healthcare Workers Against Genocide

Queer and trans immigrants allege forced labor and sexual assault in Ice facility: ‘I was treated worse than an animal’ | US immigration | The Guardian

 

Arizona politicians respond to possible lapse in SNAP benefits | 12news.com

findhelp.org by findhelp - Search and Connect to Social Care

Arizona refugees to lose SNAP eligibility in November - AZPM

Governor Hobbs Announces Funding for Food Banks and New Food Bucks Now Program to Support Families in Need of Food Assistance | Office of the Arizona Governor

Tempe sued for targeting residents who feed homeless

Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/hartzmann/no-time-to-die
License code: S4CEQWLNQXVZUMU4

Artwork and logo design by Misty Rae.


Special thanks to Joanna Roux for editing help.
Special thanks to the listeners and all the wonderful people who helped listen to and provide feedback on the episode's prerelease.


Please feel free to email Matt topics or suggestions, questions or feedback.
Matt@unitedstatesofPTSD.com


SPEAKER_00:

This podcast is not intended to serve as therapeutic advice or to replace any professional treatment. These opinions belong to us and do not reflect any company or agency.

SPEAKER_03:

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the United States of PTSD, and happy Halloween to everybody as well. Today, Eric and I are recording on Halloween, so hopefully it'll be out within a day of Halloween. Eric and I have a lot of things to talk about, but today we have decided to start off with something that's really important, which is the government shutdown and how it is impacting food insecurity for the large majority of the country and what this looks like. Erica, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01:

As a background context, food security is literally the reason I became a veterinarian. It's also the reason why I went through a combined degree program that was 10 years of my life. That the person, the director of that program before I signed on, was like, are you prepared? Because it's like psychologically hard. And I did that. And it was bad. And we had fallout from our program. And it we can talk later. We'll have another conversation about the mental health compromises that our academic institutions engage in in the extractivism that's related to our biomedical sciences programs and PhD programs in general. But I did that and I made that sacrifice at great cost in order to have a engage in food security and concepts of food sovereignty. And that that's because I grew up with stories of starvation post-World War II. My grandmother, who in part, my grandmother in in Germany, who comes from a region of Germany that um no longer exists, that they were ethnically cleansed from that region, is a refugee time and was displaced twice because they also had to escape the East German Gestapo. And so I grew up with stories of starvation, of stories about where the food that you have is the ones that you pick up off the side of the road, the cabbages that fall out of trucks. I grew up watching and learning from somebody with deep, deep trauma around food insecurity and was shaped by it my entire life, seeing people being hungry. And as a medical professional, as a veterinary medical professional, veterinary medical professionals encounter what starvation does to animals. So, like we have starvation in our literal everyday practice because we experience animals that are coming from neglect, or even just animals that have been abandoned that try and survive as they can off of what they can to take animals through recovery. So this is something that I believe maybe we've talked about before, or just the process of refeeding syndrome as far.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so as far as there is a clinical process that needs to happen when the body has been in starvation mode for a very long time. If you just start feeding people, and we understand this, and we discovered this due to the Nazi concentration camps that the the Allied soldiers came across when they were trying to like they were encountering, there were so many people that were starved and killed and gassed before it was mostly only Jewish people because everyone else had been killed, and also like queer people in these concentration camps that were that were skin and bones, right? And then they they started feeding people and they didn't know, and a bunch of people died, you know, right? Because it causes seizures, it causes it causes death if you do not do a very deliberate process.

SPEAKER_03:

Erica, before we before we get down there, I mean all that is really important, but I want to get some of the basics for people who are are listening. So one of the I want to clear up one of the misconceptions that a lot of people in this country have that people live off the the food stamp system and they're manipulating the system because this is the narrative that a lot of people are spinning. And I have to tell you, it comes from both sides. I saw somebody posting today that it's all the MAGA people, but the reality is it comes from both sides. I mean, living in a democratic state, I think you live in a Republican state where Arizona's republic or more of like it's purple. It's purple. So we, you know, we live Rhode Island has Rhode Island and Connecticut have been a democratic state for as long as I can remember. And we have this, we want to help it, but not in our backyard mentality, right? So there's this constant, we want to address it because we want to feel good about ourselves, but we don't actually want to fix it. And that's it's on both sides of it. So I want to just throw up the scenario that I've used a few times where uh, well, first of all, let's start off by saying the average person who is on SNAP benefits or gets food assistance, they don't get a sustainable amount of money to begin with. I mean, we are talking about people who get like$100 a month if that. And then if you're talking about people with uh, you know, like multiple children, I know somebody that has three children and one of them is a special needs child, then they get about$400 a month. Now, first of all, you can't survive off$400 a month with four kids. You I mean, I as a single person, single person, I am lucky if I can spend less than four or five hundred dollars a month on food. So like the fact that there's this narrative that people are living off the system is just absurd. It's absolutely absurd to begin with. The the other absurd, you know, a narrative that people are saying is what did you say, Erica?

SPEAKER_01:

That they're not working.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, that they're not working, right? So I want so that's actually where it was gonna go with this. So I I worked with a woman for a very long time who made$11 an hour. Okay. And this was way back in like I want to say like the early 2000s. She made$11 an hour. And because of that, she was able to get food, food, um, food like snap benefits, she was able to get childcare subsidies, she was able to get free health care and like low cost and all that stuff. So people see this as living off the system. Now, here's the problem. If she were to make a dollar more an hour, so now she's making$12 an hour, and she we went through the numbers and she explained this to me. The what she would gain once we took in what it would then cost her, because she would lose the childcare subsidy, she would lose the SNAP benefits, she would lose the healthcare insurance, she would have to start pay uh paying co-pays, would actually end up costing her$13,000 a year. So by getting a raise, she's in the negative.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And people don't seem to understand that. They have this perception. Now, are there people out there that abuse the system? Of course there are. There are people out there that abuse every single system, but they There are corporations who are abusing systems. That's a whole, yes, absolutely. But they will take that one person that they see, and then they use that as the, okay, well, this is the this is the crux of what everybody's doing. That's like such bullshit. For I so I want to dispel those narratives right there. The large majority of people who are are getting food assistance are people who are disabled, the elderly, people who are really children, children, like and and children, right?

SPEAKER_01:

And and and when you think about poverty, like I think it's what 23, I think maybe 25% of SNAP is like dedicated to children and making sure that children are fed.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the interesting parallel, and there's part of me that almost believes on some level it's a little bit of like karmic justice. I was having this um conversation with somebody the other day that for two years now, our country has been funding the starvation of people in a different country. And people like you and me have been calling attention to that and saying, you know, this is this is genocide, this is horrible stuff that's happening, and all these people are ignoring it because it wasn't on their doorstep. And I also remember having many conversations about saying this will be on our doorstep at some point in time, and people just ignored it and ignored it and ignored it. And now we're here. Which is horrible. But it when we allow it for one group of people, it becomes normalized for other people. And that's why we can't turn a blind eye to people being starved in other countries, especially when we're funding it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, like you think about where they are spending money, right? You have this the what's happening to the White House as far as Oh my god, the ballroom.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my god, don't even like I can't. I can't.

SPEAKER_01:

And like, like, and it's literally how much military spending, right? Not only military, but military for um, like bombs to continue a genocide, right? Or um for government officials to live on military uh housing, right? Christy Noam and a bunch of these people who are basically they are getting uh welfare on our dollars, shall we say? Yep, right? The corporate subsidies where corporation corporate welfare, right? We'll put it corporate welfare. Now, the thing about SNAP and some of the money that goes to fund SNAP, the reason why it became came to be in the first place, because it actually saves more money to feed people and have adequate nutrition than to have people who haven't received adequate nutrition. Because when you when and like this is literally from my perspective as veterinary medicine, countries fall due to not being able to have enough food access of their people. Literally the reason for Arab Spring. Yes, bread, inaccessibility of bread.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. We have, but I I think, yes, Erica, the the problem is we have the accessibility of food. We do, we have it. We could end it like tomorrow, we could end it right now if we really wanted to, but that does not it's not in the best interest of the powers that be to keep the people fed. And oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

This is also why the Black Panthers were labeled as were targeted by the FBI, it's because they were feeding people. The free lunch program for kids that we had in schools comes from the Black Panthers, who were then like the leaders of these organizations that were feeding people were assassinated by our state because they were feeding people and providing health care as far as community sourcing that. And the reason why it's targeted is because then people realize that the way that the government is functioning in benefit, not to the people, but to corruption, and that is threatening to people in power. And so that the most radical things that people do is feeding people. Do you there were times where more food was able to go from businesses who were like, This food is going to expire? And then we could also even have a whole conversation about Best Buy dates, you know, those types of things stamp on things that are for the purpose of of creating dollars out of nothing. And so this is part like, you know, the snap benefits here and how that's being affected and how the weaponization of literally food and main things that are necessary for people, because it's a war on poverty, right? This is a war on the poor. It's always been that, right? It's always been the people in power having a war on the poor, but because it's not necessarily directly the bombing that it used to be in the 70s of like literally firebombing blocks of residential zones in Philadelphia. So you can look that one up if you a lot of people don't know about.

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

Because they don't teach that information in school. That is purposely kept away from the education system that we have.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

And as a I think, Erica, in your I actually I remembered an article, but I looked it up and it was in Arizona. I didn't realize this. There was a woman that was arrested for feeding the homeless.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we are actually engaged, that is happening now, right? So in they have they have targeted people who are trying to feed unsheltered people in Tucson, in Tempe.

SPEAKER_03:

They're trying to like basically make it illegal to the the depravity, the seriously, the the moral depravity that a country has to have to make it against the law to feed starving people is disgusting. You know, interestingly enough, I hate AI. I mean, I I shouldn't say I hate it. I think it does have good uses, but it a lot of it pisses me off. But somebody told me that you can actually create a character in AI. So you could say, like, how would so-and-so respond to this? I, you know, I've I've made this clear very time, many times. I'm a pagan, I'm not Christian, but I swear to God, I'm more Christian than most Christians. So I typed in, what would Jesus say about a government that was intentionally starving people? And I said, please use biblical references. And of course, it says exactly what you and I would think it would say. It it comes up and it says, you know, it talks about taking down the government and like that, you know, you would never do that. Like you would feed the poor, like you would help the people. And I I'm like thinking to myself, how we call ourselves this Christian nation. And I know that we're we're not, but I mean people say that all the time. But this country does not have the values of any country that has empathy or compassion for anybody.

SPEAKER_01:

It is I mean, like I'm I I wouldn't call myself a Christian. I'm definitely not. I don't I don't know what like I'm a I'm a Taoist Buddhist. And and I I believe so if I was to say I would be more the the the Chinese version of the Bible, because what they did is they they replaced God with thou. So so they made their own they and so they're you know like different can and this is the same thing, you know, if you look listen to like a ladysmith black mamasa, right? They are they're they are um a choir intergenerational choir group that was instrumental to um was part of the creative cultural movement that helped end apartheid in South Africa. So they were established before apartheid ended, and they they say so. I've had the opportunity to see them performed twice, and they they do a Christian faith-based singing, but it is their own, it is their own interpretation of things, and so I think that that is something that I think a lot about as far as being a first-generation American and also understanding how Christianity impacts immigrant communities and colonized communities, and how because it's a religion and colonization went hand in hand. You know, Christianity and colonization went hand in hand and and was the cause of such violence. Like we have like Indian School Road, and there's an Indian school park. It was the site of a boarding school that was open until the 90s, where indigenous children were being stolen from their families and abused, and some of it was under the guise of was run by Christian and Catholic organizations. And there were babies, there were babies in the ground, right? And there are traumatized people that like I have a friend, I have a friend whose mother went through the boarding school program, and it has intergenerational effects. And so the this kind of thing about the weaponization of the necessities of what is required for or end to the commodification of the things that are required for human survival, shelter, food, water.

SPEAKER_03:

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? I mean, it's like it's like super basic.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know what? Also, Maslow's hierarchies of needs is cultural appropriation from the Blackfoot Nation.

SPEAKER_03:

Is it really? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

And it is um an incomplete assessment of indigenous values. So Maslow spent time with the Blackfoot Nation and took some things and created Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And it's actually incomplete because Indigenous nations think about cultural perpetuity of multiple generations rather than individual things. So this is like, and so that's actually something that I talk about frequently in when I give mental health talks. When I used to be part of uh Not One More Vet, you know, where we start, where we started our relationship, actually.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, which by the way was about a year ago.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03:

So happy anniversary.

SPEAKER_01:

Yay! Yeah. This is and it's and you know, and and you know, we talked about how like when I was giving that that interview that we did about Namvi, I was like, I'm not gonna be on the board for very long.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and this is also like relevant in some of these things because you know, we've been people who are talking about the falling apart of things, right? And how it was the it was gonna boomerang back because militarism will consume everyone. And we have a war economy now. So what we're experiencing in the snap is just you know, USAID with all of the flaws, so many flaws, so many problems, so many colonial issues that are deserving of critique, and also so much food, like critical food. Like they're already, I don't even know how many children have starved because of Elon Musk's dismantling of USAID.

SPEAKER_02:

Elon Musk is so gross. He really is.

SPEAKER_01:

But like what so what we are about to experience here is just a there's no relief for international communities where the US all of a sudden was like, all right, all of these very specific nutrition that is utilized for starving children that are also starving because the US and other Western nations have completely fucking disempowered those communities from their own food sovereignty and have also extracted and and pillaged the natural resources. And you can go into like and so, like, I want to also focus on what is happening here and also say that it is linked with what was happening out there and what we have done as a nation and what we are complicit in as American citizens that have basically slept-walked through our government, like raping, pillaging, and bombing countries around the world on behalf of corporations at times, especially if you look at the global south. We have to solve our own problems here as citizens so we can talk about how like we will have oh, I can send you some links, like get involved in a food bank, get involved in mutual aid. Think about a mutual aid fridge, right?

SPEAKER_03:

The so I I agree with you, but uh to because I mean, obviously, we have so many topics, I just don't want to get like so far out. But with the my thing with the I and I agree, food banks are super important. What I'm what I'm concerned, I guess my not resistance, but my cons my my thoughts on it is that it's not fixing a problem. And a lot of people, I mean, you see, like around Christmas time, right? People will go volunteer at food banks because they want to feel like they're doing something great and then they forget about it.

SPEAKER_01:

So like if you call keep on doing it, past the holidays.

SPEAKER_03:

But if you were to call the food bank, they oftentimes, if they're looking for volunteers, they don't want them at the holidays because everybody and their mother is coming down at the holidays because they want it, but they're doing it, and I think this is where I want to call people out, is because they're doing it for themselves. They want to go out and feel like they're making a change. So they go out and they do something and then they forget about it for the rest of the year. You know, of course, food banks are great resources. I think right now, though, particularly if we want to come together as like a community or unity, you had brought up mutual aid. And I think we should be taking care of each other, like reaching out to people in our community and saying, like, okay, how can we like share resources so that I can help you more than just overnight and I can I can help you more than just one meal. And that you know, it goes back to the episode we did about performative out or like selective outrage, is it's so performative. And that's what I don't want people to do. I want people to go out and do things to make changes and not just make them feel better.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh I we could I I think that no matter what, there will be performative. Like and so we're not gonna get rid of it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

There's there's there's a cat who's doing some exploratory things. Oh, I get that. Um so I like we are in crisis mode, theoretically, potentially, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, we are.

SPEAKER_01:

And um, what we are navigating is the fact that our politicians and the political class, which is an elitist class, um has had a long time left to their own devices to make war on the people. And and this has been getting worse and worse, right? It's not selective, like you said, it's not a Democrat versus a Republican issue, it is um a corruption issue. And in some ways, one could say that theoretically it started, and it started being more of a thing um with citizens united, right? As far as corporations being considered um having the same rights as people, uh, which they shouldn't, right? Uh uh something that only exists for the purpose of making profit at all costs should not have the same rights as human beings. I agree. Like because we we all lose, right? We lose because uh corporations are like it doesn't matter if I pollute the free buck out of these resources. So, for example, in Tucson, we have an aquifer that is poisoned for all time because of Raytheon. Because a a war profiteer company, a corporation. So that's the thing, is that the United States is a war economy. We exit the war, and and there have been politicians who have warned about this as a path, right? Because our country is more interested in feeding the corporations of war and militarism than they are in our people being fed.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, because like like we talked about before, when I mentioned the whole thing about personnel turning into resources, our country only sees people as resources. They don't see them as like individuals or carrying any sort of value. I mean, that's not, it's just like how do we how do we push these resources to the maximum capacity to get what we can get out of them because they're disposable. And except except for environment is disposable, right?

SPEAKER_01:

And the and everything is disposable, and they will live in their gilded ballroom, militarized DC, untouchable. It's difficult to say what at what point in time people in the United States who have opted out of being informed, opted out about thinking about the problems that other people have that are about survival. Right. I don't know when they're going to start to feel it enough to pay attention. And, you know, I have people within my own social circle that I love very much who are basically like, I don't want to talk about these things because these are problems beyond what I can handle. Or like, you know, like people in my life who are like, I'm just an old person. I don't want to like, I don't want to talk about these. I'm an old person who are doing these other things. And like, even like, yeah, there are vulnerable people who are like, I'm already working three jobs just to make some ends meet. I can only just like frantically try and and and make sure that I have these things. I don't know how to, I am fighting for survival. I don't know how to fight the system. And that's where we're at, is that there are so many people of these vulnerable people who are just fighting to keep their animal, their, their, their, their families and their animals, because you know, now we're gonna have a bunch of people who are gonna be surrendering their pets because they can't they can't afford them, they and they can't even afford to feed their pets. So if you can donate pet food to these places as well, because people who have pets who are part of their survival as the human-animal bond is for their mental health, people are having to let go because they have to decide between feeding their kids or feeding the dog that is part of their family and their kids' lives.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm glad you said that, Erica. So I I also want to add to that for the people who are listening, and and I assume when because of the content that we do, that the people that are listening are really on board with the stuff that we're saying. So actually, I'm more saying this to get them to, I guess, tell other people is resist the whole narrative of like, well, if you can't have a pet, then don't if you can't afford a pet, then don't have one, because that's the crap that people use to continue to push this narrative and keep people divided. Like everybody deserves to be happy, period. Everybody deserves to have basic human rights with food, healthcare. I mean, I don't even know why we argue about these things anymore, because that is just it's basic human rights. And part of that is the is is having companionship. And for some people, you know, we think about people who you have like service pets, or people who just, you know, they're they're single and they have pets for like companions. Like those are necessary, they're necessary family members. So don't say much like people say about kids, well, if you can't afford them, don't have them. Like, just stop saying shit like that. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_01:

Your classism is showing.

SPEAKER_03:

What'd you say?

SPEAKER_01:

Your classism is showing when you say that.

SPEAKER_03:

What what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Class, like, no, no, not you.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, oh, I was like, what? Really?

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, not you. I'm saying is that that's my response to people who are saying that, right? People who say that who are like, well, if you can't like blah blah blah, you just try and like like that's classism, yeah, right? That you you have a bias because you think that poverty is a symptom of the individual rather than the output of an exploitative economic system. Yep, that puts people who are already wealthy, like like we should not have billionaires.

SPEAKER_03:

No, we well, Billy Eilish, did you think the bit the thing that Billy Eilish just said? Yeah, which is I think that's awesome. I mean, I don't really follow her and know her really well, but she where do you know where it was where she said that where she confronted people and said, you know, if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? And then she gave away like a lot of her money.

SPEAKER_01:

Um yeah, I think that it was in response to maybe getting an award. I potentially like I think that you know, I'm I'm glad that like that's like the one platform when people are like, oh, like celebrities should stay out of it. Um uh and at the same time, like that they shouldn't be like politicizing or saying things. And it's like, all right, well, the fact that human rights is being labeled as political, that tells me a lot about someone's value system, right? Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Then the second thing is like when people are like, oh, well, like celebrities should stay in their lane. It's like, no, let's talk about propaganda, let's talk about cultural propaganda, let's talk about cultural influence, right? Someone who is a celebrity who is saying something blunt about human rights is utilizing their platform. Right in a way that is appropriate. And that every person should be utilizing their voice in their spheres of influence to advocate for humanity. It's humanism. It is being in support of humanism and people not starving. Is humanism. So therefore, if someone is like, well, if you just can't do it, well, you should just starve, like that person has homicidal tendencies. They think it is acceptable for somebody to starve to death.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So like that person is exhibiting a lack, like you were saying, of of of um of empathy, of compassion, and of humanistic integrity. They are revealing themselves to be someone who lacks integrity because they can walk on by when anything happens in front of them that does like so they are more likely to be a person that would be comfortable with embezzlement, comfortable with all sorts of questionable things. They're revealing themselves to be a person that does not have a reasonable grounding in ethics and morality. And I, you know, and I'm glad that we have this platform where I can just say that. You have a problem with it? I don't like like if you have a problem with that, I think that you should spend some time in reflection.

SPEAKER_03:

I would agree with that. I would agree with that. Man. Oh, you know what I meant to tell you earlier, too, was when I when I talked about doing the AI, because you were I had also put in what would Kwan Yin say. She's the goddess of compassion and mercy. And and I also, you know, it and of course it said exactly what I practice, which is that she, you know, it would be you feed the poor, like you take care of the people, right? So like any like amount of humanity would say the same thing. Anything, right? So like if you weren't advocating for people dying, and of course, you know, I'm I'm thinking to myself as you're describing the type of people we're talking about, these are also the same people that have on their social media accounts that they're about God and like pro-life, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Like the same people who are or honestly, people who are like, I went on like I agree that people deserve rest and relaxation, right? Absolutely. Or like, I just got back from um Bali. I'm like, you know what? I've done it, I've gone to Bali. I had very mixed feelings about it, and also, you know, I've had mixed feelings about traveling internationally for a long time. And I'm very, very selective when I do that. I did have the opportunity to do that when I was younger and it was a privilege. And I did it on a backpacker's dime, and it sometimes did not eat because I wanted to explore the world. And I do think it's important that people explore the world. But there is a point in time where then you ask yourself, and honestly, as I got older and more like financially established, I was like, I got to have that opportunity where I backpacked around in a shoestring budget and stayed in some very questionable places. Now I reflect on it. Um, because I wanted to save enough money to be able to go to a museum, right? To experience a museum or how art is presented in a place that is a of a different culture. And also to have a relationship with my culture because I don't, I am here, I'm a visitor here. I am I am the product of immigration. And you know, there's a very interesting, like and and and this, of course, there are certain re certain refugees do get snapped. And they do this as part of their adaptation as they are trying to get work. And people are utilizing it and saying, yeah, now we don't want those refugees getting that free money. They need to figure it out themselves. And you know, the xenophobia, the also the lack of recognition of how much immigrants actually contribute to the economy of this nation. That immigrants are part, and my parents as immigrants who have literally are the reason why we have LCD screens. Right? Look at your computer. Thank an immigrant, thank an immigrant when you're interacting with your computer, because two immigrants were integral, and a whole bunch of integrat immigrants were integral in the creation of these computer chips that make our luxury life. And also think about the fact that the the um cobalt and other things that go into these things are are a product of child slavery and another genocide, and another genocide in Sudan and in Congo, right? Same thing with it used to be rubber, right? It used to be rubber, it's been bananas and avocados and all of these things, right? And this is about when we talk about empire and when we talk about how things that happen on the periphery come back to the core, because the way that this goes, the way the traditions that we are based off of are ones that were originally based off of slavery. So I so much frustration in the lack of awareness, the lack of the intellectual laziness that comes out of some people's mouths when they're like, Good, good, we should end snap. Have fun with that.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like, I don't, did you see the tote? Did you see the toast lady? I think was her name talking about. She she did this, um, I don't, I forgot her name. She did this video on TikTok where she's like eating a piece of toast and there's like peanut butter on it. And she says, Um, for all of you that are losing your snap benefits in November, I have one question for you. What did you do with Octobers? And then she like eats it, and then she's like, I hope you're sharp smartly. And like, did you buy processed foods? And is like just really being like a vile human being. And she lost her job over it, which and then um she went on and then posted something about um now she can't pay her rent. And this woman I follow, who I think is really awesome, did like a parody video and she's like, What'd you do with your October rent? I was dying. But but that's that that mentality, and it's it's just oh, it's so infuriating.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Erica, you had said because I I also want to give resources, like you had said that you had resources that you wanted to give.

SPEAKER_01:

For example, if there are few, so I have links, and some of them are just from Arizona, so they might be Arizona specific, but you can use those algorithms. So there is also uh, and um Governor Pritzker from Illinois made this announcement and saying that the government is also weaponizing the very system. So even if there is money on SNAP, the actual payment function won't work. So this is why, for example, Arizona is making their own separate thing called food books, I think it is. Oh this is why some of the governors and SNEP are why they're focusing on supporting the food banks, because food banks have nothing to do with the EBT system. So on so fucking, excuse my language, but fucking tomorrow, right? Even if people have their EBT cards and money on their EBT cards, it is likely that it won't work because the very machines and the infrastructure utilized for Snap to function will no longer work.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh and I would like to add that we still, despite all this, right? So despite all of this, we still have and the government shutdown. Um, Congress is still getting paid, and we still have enough money to send to Israel to bomb people.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. But so God forbid we feed our military military families that are using food have been using food banks because they're not getting paid.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, which is disgusting. It's just in it in my understanding too is that it's also they're not guaranteed to get paid when the government does reopen that they're not guaranteed to get it. Now, it I I think and I get that people are scared, but could you could you imagine that because TSA is affected too, like TSA and like aircraft?

SPEAKER_01:

Some of those people are showing up and not getting paid. Could but could you imagine veterinarians who are showing up for work and they're not getting paid. So not only are they not having the time, and this is what's happening, like for example, the healthcare workers in Gaza, right? Showing up to work, not getting paid, and still having to find the resources to feed their families and make ends meet and pay for their shelter, right? So that is what some of our federal federal workers are having to do right now.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, or taking out loans that you know, some places are giving interest-free loans, but that shouldn't even be a thing, right? So what what I wonder what would happen if all of the people who because there are certain jobs you can replace, right? So, like if nobody for TSA went in, they could, I'm sure, hire people tomorrow, although I don't know who they would hire that's not going to get paid. But air traffic controllers, that's not somebody you can just like throw in tomorrow. Like you got to train them. So if all of them stopped going to work, I wonder what would happen.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it would be very interesting. And I think honestly, this is why the mayor of Chicago has called for a general strike.

SPEAKER_03:

I think it would, you know how quickly it would end? Because business would be impacted immediately because they wouldn't be able to get their shipments.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, really, because it is all about money at this point in time, like because we're living under conditions where the only people who have the attention of our politicians are large business, right? So I I had saw a post not too long ago where someone was like, we're gonna either have Trump or Walmart. Because we'll uh 25, I believe it's 25% of the dollars involved in Snap go through Walmart.

SPEAKER_04:

Really?

SPEAKER_01:

In addition to Walmart actually creating the people by underpaying their workers that their workers often have to be on Snap, right? So in addition to make so in there, they underpair their workers, so their workers have to be on assistance, food assistance, and then they get that dollar that their workers spend in Walmart. Disgusting. And it's a number, right? So this is where corporate subsidies or when we're doing engaging, and we are we are a country that focuses more on corporate welfare than we do the welfare of people, of everyday people. Right. This is what that means. So right now we already have farmers who have been screwed over because farmers were involved in USAID money, right? Some of their contracts involved their production partially going into um international food supply. And that now that and also into the SNAP, into SNAP. So farmers are affected, pharmacists who who have had businesses, and now they're realizing that they might not be able to stay in business and keep their farms going. And that is an asset that will then be bought up by, you know, let's just throw out a name, Bill Gates or BlackRock or whatever, some corporation.

SPEAKER_03:

And you bring up a great point, which is that this will eventually affect everybody. So even if you're in if you're not being impacted by it now, it is going to eventually hit your doorstep, like whoever's listening.

SPEAKER_01:

You if you have friends that won't listen to you, you can try. I don't know whether or not our our podcast and our voices would be the one to break through to them. But maybe either the words that we're using or some of the perspectives that allow you to search for the things in your area, right? Because I can only speak to Arizona and Arizona does things a little bit differently. But anywhere you go, a food bank is going to be more successful because they also have ways of negotiating direct negotiation. So food banks direct negotiate with other businesses and other farmers. And also sometimes it has been governmental, government related, where they're able to negotiate for more food for dollar because they're buying things in bulk. So, number one, go support a local food bank because that is going to be more effective for getting food out to people. I know, for example, in Arizona, St. Vincent de Paul has been stepping up already. They've been planning for months, actually. A lot of these organizations that are focused on housing assistance and food assistance that are independent, that have, in addition to have benefited from governmental contracts before, but don't rely on them because they know better. Also, local mutual aid groups. So, for example, in where I am, we have a mutual aid organization that has social media presence. I'm not going to name them right now because that sometimes causes problems, right? Because we have had, I kid you not, mutual aid groups be targeted for state violence. So the most radical thing that you can do is not only supporting the local food systems that focus on getting food to people who need it without questions, or the businesses who who say that they're feeding, like there are ones that are like, we feed people, right? There are small businesses who are like, we're gonna have a free lunch. You come in this day, no questions asks.

SPEAKER_03:

Can can I add something? Because I find that uh the other thing that's like super interesting. Do you know even the satanic church has said that they are going to be offering food services to anybody who loses SNAP benefits on November 1st?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But the a lot of the Christian-based churches have not. I'm just putting that out there.

SPEAKER_01:

There are a lot, though, there are a lot of Christian churches who used to feed people who are now no longer feeding people because they lost their government money that was helping them do it.

SPEAKER_03:

But it's just it's just interesting. I just want to point that out. That's all I'm saying, right? Some of the some of the places you would expect to do it are not doing it. And then some of the, you know, and then we look at places we vilify and they're out there helping people. So I mean, yeah it's just it's all part of that that twisted narrative. So we have the resources, and I'll put some local resources there from um Rhode Island as well. But you also, we wanted to do a memoriam now at the end that you had wanted to talk about. Do you want to do that now?

SPEAKER_01:

This is personal. And and so before I start this or relaunch into this, thank you everyone for listening. You can feel empowered because the most empowering thing is to share a meal or to feed someone who needs feeding. Because, you know, and we if you do humanitarian work, so like as someone who is engaged with humanitarian work, is engaged that understand what happens, you know, after disaster. And some of it I've been doing directly, and some of it I do by supporting people who are doing that. And especially in working in spaces where refugees are impacted. Someone can have just experienced a natural disaster and gone through the most traumatic thing in the world. And sometimes it's difficult to understand what to say. But if you can give them a hot meal and just sit with them and share a meal with them, food is unifying. It is food, food changes lives. So think about that, right? Of utilizing food as a mechanism of resistance, food is resistance, feeding people, growing food, um, exchanging food, it bridges so many things. And so in this time of great travesty, lean into that and know that you as an individual, even just making a bunch of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to hand out, which is something that is accessible for many people, you can really change somebody's day and learn about how what type of food, nutritious food, is appropriate. So, yes, things that are say shelf stable, but if you can get fresh food into people's hands, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_03:

Erica, just because of the limits of the episode, I'm gonna like I'm gonna have to cut, I'm gonna have to cut some stuff out.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, okay. So Dr. Muat Talat Abul Rukha, I'm short, Dr. Muat, is a veterinarian that was working for Sulala Animal Rescue, one of the few functional animal rescues in Gaza, and was one of the main surgeons providing animal care in the north, in northern Gaza. He went missing several weeks ago and it was missing for, I think it was maybe about 10 days before we got confirmation that he was killed. And that was announced two Sundays ago. His death was announced by my colleague, Dr. Miriam Kamal, at a Doctors Against Genocide webinar. So on a Sunday, we received final word because his body was found, and we ref we received final confirmation. Um, he was killed in near Jabalia. He was shot in the leg by Israeli soldiers. Uh, it transected his femoral artery and he bled out and he was unable to be saved, and it was impossible for him to receive the care that he needed to even try and save his life.

SPEAKER_03:

Erica, I just one I want to say, I'm sorry, because I know this is a colleague of yours. And I have a hard time referring to them as soldiers because they're assassins.

SPEAKER_01:

I appreciate that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

And they're terrorists. I mean they're not soldiers.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I I say that language because I'm also like I present this in spaces that people are not ready to acknowledge that. Um, so and I really value value being the person who could be like, hey, like, let's let's use accurate language. Um, because this is what Israel has done as a policy. They have created what they call yellow zones. They've been doing this for a long time over this process of this genocide that they are doing. They create these yellow zones and they don't actually tell anyone. They just artificially, they just arbitrarily create a line. And anyone going over this line, any citizen, any human being going over this line is killed, shot. It's not posted anywhere, they're not notified, they're not dropping pieces of paper. They just decide that anyone who shows up here. So they and they do this in ceasefire, right? So Dr. Mulath was murdered by these genocidal by this genocidal military that is full of of people who have are so disconnected from their humanity that they kill children and other human beings for sport. And there's plenty of documented evidence about this.

SPEAKER_03:

And they brag and they brag about it. I mean, they they they self-document it. They self-document bragging about it. It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And so if this makes you feel the way about them being described, or if somebody communicates that they feel the way about this being described, they are just ignorant. They are willfully ignorant. So um he was killed potentially for sport because someone made an order that during a ceasefire, this zone, anyone who crosses into it should be killed. Now that is not normal. That type of directive is not normal. The Israeli military is not normal. They are not following international law. They are genocidal, they are a genocidal military. And so this doctor who has spent the last two years displaced 14 times, not just barely figuring out, and he had to undergo, he had to go through the J GHF um gauntlet where they shot at people as they were scrambling for boxes in reflection of like basically the Squid Games. He had to go through that to get a box. And we have text messages that he exchanged with Dr. Kamal. And we have it on our website. So I have, um, we'll have linked a website where people can go to to understand more about this incredible human being who's been saving lives of companion animals and livestock and donkeys that are used for ambulances to move people around for the last two years. And as soon as he went missing, we still were hopeful. And I'm very grateful to some of our animal behavior colleagues and other colleagues of ours that, and of course, you know, you know, Dr. Kamal, who, who, who was still like engaging in social media campaign, um, because, you know, that is something that she's very talented in. And some of us like trying to do other things that that there were people who were supportive of us and who made that social media campaign while we were also breathless, knowing that he was likely that most likely he had been killed, because we knew that he was not going to be out of touch for that amount of time without either being detained and in, you know, those torture prisons that they have that the Israel uh military has, where they utilize uh military dogs to terrorize and um and sexually assault people and torture people. Um, yeah. So now the world, like there's there's he is somebody that the news media has picked up on as someone who was killed. You know, there's like beloved veterinarian killed, and it's like like the the the martyrdom, like we will talk about genocide after it is done rather than doing something to stop it. And um, you know, we've called the AVMA to account. Other, you know, um just recently did an interview with some of our animal behavior colleagues about um the AVMA emailing us two weeks before presentation that we were going to talk about anti-war, that we that that um that was like we need you to keep this away from advocacy. Um so you know, we're talking about it because they will not say a word. And yet they say things about our veterinary colleagues in Ukraine. And um, so yeah, a tribute. Dr. Mwat, like Dr. Mwat and the other veterinary professionals in Gaza, just like our human and mental health care colleagues who are in this place of genocide that exemplifies the absolute worst of humanity, that have been honoring their oaths in ways that we can only theorize about. The arrogance of any medical professional and veterinary professional or one health, you know, ascribing person who's outside of a zone where where armed conflict is is causing a genocide, the arrogance of us to somehow like not speak out and utilize everything within our sphere of influence to do something to take action. I just I have no words. I have no one.

SPEAKER_03:

People, you know, uh people who do what he did, these are the heroes that we look at, right? So when one thing that I am personally never going to let fly, ever, is the people who say things like, I was just doing my job, because that's not an excuse. Now, in a in a case where you're talking about somebody who is doing their job to save humanity and taking all those risks, that's what a hero looks like, not somebody who is killing people and killing children and like destroying the environment, saying, Well, I was just doing my job. Or if we want to make it more local, the people who are kidnapping people off the streets and shooting at them, and now we have people disappearing in concentration camps here in the United States. And they, I don't know if you I'm sure you saw this too. They just identified the people who killed Hind. Oh, I hope they uh like those are the people that should never know peace. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01:

Like I, you know, it's I think often so I'm I'm listening to a historical podcast. It's amazing. It's called Empire. I highly recommend it. It's two British people who focus on looking at historical context of empire through a decolonial lens, right? Not not 100% all the time, but like mostly pretty good. And they really talk about like when we think about the million there are 12 million people who were trafficked for slavery in the United States. 12 million people. Um, and I mean close to two million people died in just in the transit. The millions of people that were genocided by the US government through the process of the settler colonial process of the United States. That's still that's that it still happens. And now now they're revealing that in some of these facilities we have non-consensual sterilization and gynecological procedures that are being done. There's sexual assault that is happening in these facilities. These facilities are reopening who already had human rights violation records, which are the very reason that they were closed in the first place. So we're just revamping and expanding a type of violence that people who are choosing to be ignorant of, I think that when like when it comes to account, and and part of the problem is also there's never been accountability. There is, there has so rarely been accountability. Only recently, it's only recently where like the Philippines was able to hold their dictator to account. So he's now in prison, Bukele, right? We are just barely getting into the space where people who commit such horrific violations of human rights are actually held to account. Even Biden had a judge, released a judge that was responsible for 10 years of putting black and brown kids into the carceral system for 10 years for money. And he was released, right, as part of Biden's plan. Why? Probably money. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

So that's also part of what repeats, though. I mean, I think throughout history there's been plenty of times where tyrants and dictators have been held accountable. The problem is people forget to keep doing it.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

Because then they like I'm I'm hoping that I'm hoping that we can activate. I hope that enough people get activated where we actually turn things around instead of sort of halfway getting there and then forgetting. And so if you're American, that's your assignment. Do in addition to taking action now, educate yourself on history on a global scale to actually understand the degree of what other people have survived in order to come here, right? What we have created in the what the United States citizenry has been complicit in the destruction of other places and the bombing of other places to result in immigrants and refugees coming here. Understand your role, right? And hopefully we can stop this madness because you know, as it's a power to the people.

SPEAKER_03:

So that was. A very that was a lot of powerful stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh hopefully we'll see.

SPEAKER_03:

So thank you everybody for tuning in, and um, we will uh see you on the next episode. This is just a reminder that no part of this podcast can be duplicated or copied without written consent from either myself or Wendy. Thank you again.

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Matthew Boucher LICSW LCDP

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Donna Gaudette

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Dr. Erika Lin-Hendel

Co-host
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Julia Kirkpatrick

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Wendy Picard

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