RamX Fortean Winds (00:05)
Two days ago I was in a room listening to a proposal for how to tell the American public we are not alone. Not whether it's true. How to say it. Who should be standing at the podium? What words get used, and which ones get avoided. That's not a thought experiment. That's an actual funded study launching right now, tied to an actual government advisory council. Tonight we start there. Then we go to two of the strangest physical objects on Earth right now.
A set of bodies in Peru and a sphere in Colombia. And in both cases we end up asking the same exact question. Who's actually holding the evidence? And will they let go of it long enough for anyone to find out what it really is?
Bones (00:53)
Welcome to the Fortean Winds podcast. I'm Bones and with us as always is RamX
RamX Fortean Winds (00:58)
Hey hey, everybody.
Bones (01:00)
Hey Ram so we have a full episode today and it's related to the Sol Foundation convention that happened last week. It if if for those who don't know what it is, it's a convention that brings together experts from numerous fields to discuss the science behind UAPs. Rom, you were there, or at least virtually.
and we're gonna talk about that. It's a it's a UAP episode and we're gonna talk about UAPs and we're also gonna talk about the Nazca mummies and the Buga sphere.
RamX Fortean Winds (01:35)
That's right. It's gonna be a full episode and it's all about UFOs.
We'll call them
Bones (01:40)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (01:40)
UAP because they want us to call him UAP.
Bones (01:43)
Ha ha.
RamX Fortean Winds (01:44)
But two days ago I was on a Zoom call. So I it was kind of in the room, but you know, there
Bones (01:50)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (01:50)
was a hundred people on the Zoom. And I could tell that there was more trying to get in because they kept trying to say, let your friends and colleagues know that we're at capacity. I think people heard the word disclosure and they went, Whoa, what do you
Bones (02:05)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (02:05)
got? Right.
Because Peter Skayfish, who was on the call, and Gary Nolan and Tim Galladay, who we've mentioned before, is a former rear admiral, and he they're all on the scientific advisory council to the president. And as Peter made clear on the call,
They also have a direct path to Congress, probably several, I think, more than one, and I know some former staffers are working with them too. So they have a bunch of hooks into the administration, and they'll probably have hooks into whatever administration comes next, too, because I think they're quite a credible body, both science, military, and they've been out in the public talking to everyone about UAPs. So they're
They've been pushing the envelope and I have to say I'm encouraged by what I see there.
Bones (02:59)
good.
RamX Fortean Winds (03:00)
And I want to support it, you know. so they're looking for money for this study. That's why they were doing the briefing and you know, let's be real about that. But it's gonna be a short raise. I think they said they needed like a hundred thousand. So they are doing special engagements with anyone who gives probably a about a thousand to the g you know that
that study, but I don't know, they would probably take whatever donations they can get. So if anyone's interested, check out the Sol Foundation website and of course we'll have a link to it below. But let's talk about what they said about disclosure because I think that's what everyone really wants to know. And we love Barry in the lead, so let's make that the top of the show.
The probability of disclosure right now is higher than normal. And I agree with that. And I agree with that for the reasons that he said, but we have gone into more detail on them. So I he said basically due to certain political situations and the political environment, the possibility of disclosure is much higher. So we've gone
Bones (04:09)
Hm.
RamX Fortean Winds (04:10)
into what exactly those are, because we don't have such
Such a need to be diplomatic. But I was texting with a friend who was also on the call, and I just said, aka dementia.
Bones (04:24)
Mm, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (04:26)
So let's let's be real about it. Like
Bones (04:28)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (04:29)
he is acting erratic, he is acting like he's in sundowning behavior, and we're talking about the president of the United States right now. So
Bones (04:40)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (04:40)
if anyone was was confused by that, and and what does that mean? Like he could maybe walk up to the microphone and say something no one else would right now.
Bones (04:51)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (04:52)
And there's a lot going on that he needs a distraction from, including the war, the economy, the Epstein files. You could go through a list of of things that UAPs would be a nice distraction from all of it. So there's a lot. That's my words, not his, but there
Bones (05:10)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (05:11)
is a lot right now that make the probability go up. And that's what he said. Said was that the probability is higher than usual.
Bones (05:19)
Yeah, makes sense.
RamX Fortean Winds (05:21)
But that's kind of the part that people get excited about when they hear that Seoul is doing a disclosure study. But it's not technically a study of the phenomenon. It's more a study of us.
It's called a discrete choice experiment. And that's a real methodology. It's it's most often used in health policy. And that's where you take a representative sample of the public and then have them compare different disclosure scenarios against each other. Who delivers the news, what evidence gets shown, how is it how is it verified, you know, where what is the chain of custody that the public demands to know, like
Bones (05:54)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (05:56)
how the message is framed, and then you measure what combination reads as credible versus what reads as like alarming or causes of panic. So
Bones (06:06)
Mm.
RamX Fortean Winds (06:06)
that's a big part of the study is how do you make disclosure as easy as possible on the public is how I would frame that.
Bones (06:15)
Okay, so it's it's less what did we find and more how do we say it without panic.
RamX Fortean Winds (06:21)
That's right. Yeah, exactly. And they're
Bones (06:23)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (06:24)
upfront about the timing. Their own materials cite the current administration's UAP releases, a whistleblower directive, and specifically UAP science advisories council that sole leadership sits on, Nolan included, their read is that some form of disclosure is more likely than not right now.
And they want the messaging framework built before that decision gets made. So it's not scrambled together after. One of the things Scayfish mentioned was a RAN study that I know I've mentioned a number of times. And one of the things the RAN study found that we like to point out is that there was going to be a loss of productivity after you disclosed UAP. And that was a real big concern. You don't remember
Bones (07:08)
What? What?
RamX Fortean Winds (07:10)
this, but we we did cover this before. Anyway.
because I find this hilarious. And that
Bones (07:15)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (07:15)
was that the RAN study found that there was going to be a big loss of productivity
Because people would look at UFOs and they would go, They are so far ahead. What is the point? What is the point
Bones (07:24)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (07:25)
of my doing anything? Like, you know, we
Bones (07:27)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (07:27)
always thought we are the cutting edge of science and we're doing
Bones (07:30)
Sure.
RamX Fortean Winds (07:31)
the fastest, most efficient ways of everything that we do. And now you're like, Man, you are below horse and cart. You're an amoeba and
Bones (07:39)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (07:40)
people just it would be frozen, you know, or they'd be like, What is the point? You know, the aliens are gonna come get us or the whatever's gonna come get us, or they're the ones
Have been steering us all along, or you know, a lot of stuff that could really impact the public. But you know, it's good that actually that we went down that road a little bit because there
Bones (07:59)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (08:00)
is huge impact to the public, and we've talked a lot about them, like the ontological shock and the theological shock, like especially religion. That's why they they've had these meetings with religious leaders before.
Bones (08:13)
Yeah.
I mean I w humans are very resilient. I I feel like the those in power are a little bit more concerned than than everyone else. I mean I I could see the the impact of of a a mass population, you know, belief system collapsing. There might be some panic and reaction, but I mean peop people are still gonna work and need a paycheck. I I don't know. Seems overblown.
RamX Fortean Winds (08:39)
Agreed.
I and you know, this has been a debate on Reddit and you know, that's usually where I see it. On Twitter, the debate is usually a lot of shouting. But the the debate on Reddit
Bones (08:48)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (08:50)
seems to land with people being like, you know, people will be all right. And it and
Bones (08:54)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (08:54)
I I agree. I could not agree more. People have adapted to so many horrible things over time. It's it's amazing,
Bones (09:00)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (09:01)
right?
And it that we don't know that this is horrible. There's certainly been positive interactions with this phenomenon. We are certainly here. We are not affected by it enough for it to be called pressing enough to become a political issue, you know,
Bones (09:17)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (09:18)
that we know of, right? We we've talked about ways it might be affecting us on a really big scale. And when you think about something that's that powerful, it seems more likely that it would be messing with us than not, doesn't it?
Bones (09:31)
Right,
right.
RamX Fortean Winds (09:33)
But if I'm gonna paraphrase this study in very simple language, which I'd like to, it is basically the fact that they're going out to a variety of people from all across the spectrum
in the country of the United States and then they're going to each different demographic, different ages and ethnicity, religious affiliations, and they're going, Okay, how is this gonna impact you? How is this gonna impact you? What level of information? And it's gonna be more than surveys. I I think that they're gonna be studying these people over time. I imagine they'll be showing them different types of evidence and asking them how they feel about it. So, you know,
They're gonna put a lot of effort into this because apparently nothing has been done since that ran study toward this effort. But
There is a political push behind this that I think we would all like to support, which is them saying, Well, let's make disclosure easier for you.
Bones (10:27)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (10:27)
You know, and they're saying you don't have to be afraid to disclose this because we can tell you what the impacts will be. And
Bones (10:34)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (10:34)
they're they're trying to safeguard the public a little bit too. So I think it's a really positive effort. And I was encouraged by what I what I heard there. And actually encouraged me to do a UFO science episode just to stay back in the in the mix, you know.
Bones (10:47)
Yeah,
that's great. That's good to hear.
RamX Fortean Winds (10:51)
I was also shocked to be invited, you know, that
Bones (10:55)
Ha ha
RamX Fortean Winds (10:56)
And it wasn't Rom X that got invited to that. I don't think that Rom X would get invited to anything remotely like that. But it was actually this the affable citizen scientist me that got invited, you know, which was that felt good, man. My my secret identity,
Bones (11:09)
All right. Yeah, right, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (11:12)
you know. It's like yeah, finally that guy gets some credit, you know.
Bones (11:15)
Ha ha
All right, well let's let's tackle the Nazca mummies and the Bouga Sphere next. You know, those are two things we've known about now for years and what's the development? Are are they real?
RamX Fortean Winds (11:28)
Yeah, these are threads that we've started years ago now, and let's give some updates on on where they are because there's been a lot of movement on both, and I think we've mentioned that several times. But let's look at where they are today. I thought that
Bones (11:42)
Yeah, a lot of ups and downs,
we'll say, in the research.
RamX Fortean Winds (11:46)
That's a great way to put it. And now we've got a track record to go off of, so it's a good place to do a little UFO science. And and since they invited the citizen scientists see it, you know, I was like, you give me a little fruit, a little carrot, look at me. I'm like a little rabbit, right?
Bones (12:00)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (12:02)
So let's start with the Nazca mummies, and there's a footnote here that made a pretty big splash in the news, but let's get it out of the way because it's not where the real store is, I think.
So those small dolls, the ones that the customs department actually intercepted in a DHL shipment at the Lima Airport, those are resolved. They were animal bones, human bones, fragments of synthetic glue, and an artisan named Manuel Caceres came forward and said his own family made them as tourist replicas.
And then the Ministry of Culture tried to put a fake label on the whole thing. Now those were two of a hundred dolls, and they were claimed by an artisan. So the artisan claimed
that they had stolen his property. They took the the dolls and said, Look, regardless of whether you're making them as art or not, these are part of Peru's cultural heritage.
you're using pieces of our cultural heritage in order to make these dolls, so we're gonna keep So they kept and then they there was a big fight and there was a lot of splash in in the news. But that's what the happened there, basically.
They were known to be artisan creations and they were found by the Ministry of Culture and the news media in the US blew that up, which I thought was kind of suspicious because they started saying Nazca mummies found to be fake. And that was the the headline everywhere and that's what people were saying to me at the time. And this happened a while back.
That was enough for the public to be like, we're kinda out of this, but was only part of the story and we'll go through the rest.
Bones (13:38)
Okay, so let's skip past those then.
RamX Fortean Winds (13:40)
Alright, let's skip right past those because the real evidentiary case, for and against, doesn't run through the airport dolls at all. It runs through independent forensic work that happens separately from any government press conference.
Bones (13:54)
So who did that work?
RamX Fortean Winds (13:55)
That was doctor John McDowell.
He's a forensic odontologist, University of Colorado consultant to the Denver Medical Examiner's Office. Real credentials, no financial stake in Massan's operation. In April of last year, he examined specimens directly, alongside Denver's own coroner, Dr. James Caruso,
And a forensic anthropologist named William Rodriguez. Serious people doing this independently that were not on Missan's payroll, and that's important.
Bones (14:22)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. did they find anything?
RamX Fortean Winds (14:26)
Well, McDowell's language was pretty careful and I want to use his wording rather than paraphrase it
Because this gets a little touchy.
He concluded the small mummies, Josephina and similar specimens were never living entities composed of the hard tissues of one and only one species. End quote.
that's not a verdict on extraterrestrial origin one way or the other. That's a structural finding. These are
Bones (14:54)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (14:54)
composites. They are dolls. Built from more than one source.
Bones (15:00)
I don't I don't get it because th you'd think the carbon dating would be the first thing they do. I how did that
RamX Fortean Winds (15:06)
Are you skipping ahead?
Bones (15:07)
Yeah, no, I'm just thinking a out loud. I mean I thought they did cart
RamX Fortean Winds (15:10)
I I
I I I don't know if that comes up here, but the the carbon dating could go so many different ways because they could be carbon dating as they the first of all they're taking these from old fossilized skeletons, right? So the carbon dating would would transfer back to that time. And then the second problem that we have, massive problem here, is that they were all contaminated.
So you don't know what the hell you're you're carbon dating. And then there's some other stuff with carbon dating that that that could come through, but mostly it's they're these wakeros are piecing those things together.
Bones (15:53)
Okay,
well at least it didn't come out that they were just paper mache, you know.
RamX Fortean Winds (15:57)
No, no, they're very sophistic the ones that are composites are very sof sophisticated composites.
Bones (16:02)
Yeah, yeah.
So
how specific does their research results get?
RamX Fortean Winds (16:08)
Specific enough to matter, independent review of the CT scans on those specimens found only seven carpal bones in the wrist, where a human hand, or honestly any primate hand, should show at least eight. The pisiform is missing.
That bone exists specifically to anchor tendons for the little finger. If you're going to remove a finger from an original four or five-fingered hand to fake a three-fingered look, well that's exactly the bone that you would expect to disappear along with it.
Bones (16:40)
So that's an actual surgical tell, I guess you could call it, not a chemistry test or, you know, a press conference prop.
RamX Fortean Winds (16:50)
Right, that's the distinction. The government's glue and paper press conference was theater. In a sense, real result, it was bad staging. This is credentialed independent, forensic scientists looking at bone architecture and finding a structural inconsistency that doesn't happen by accident. That's the findings that should headline the skeptical case, not the dolls.
Basically who screw the airport dolls. This one is way more important because this guy had no skin in the game and he's very well credentialed and he said these are fake.
Bones (17:25)
Hmm. Okay, so what about Maria? Because you've always held her separately, right?
RamX Fortean Winds (17:33)
I still do. That's the one.
Bones (17:35)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (17:35)
I mean there's a possibility that Maria is genuinely anomalous, because the evidence genuinely points a different direction for her DNA. It's confirmed though that it's ninety-nine to a hundred percent Homo sapiens. Not ambiguous though, that that closes the case on different species, for Maria specifically.
Bones (17:57)
Hm. So I mean what's what's still open about it then?
RamX Fortean Winds (18:03)
Well, whether what we're looking at is an extreme undocumented congenital condition or a deliberate and technically sophisticated altercation of an actual human body after death. So is her deformation a result of some sort of genetic condition like the
Like the Atacama mummy that Gary Nolan found, and he's we've talked about that one before, and he he said, this was actually a infant or human species. And then he said, But it has all these different birth defects. And I said, When we look at that set of birth defects, it's extremely rare. And it would be like winning the genetic lotto 17 times in the wrong direction, but still it's extremely odd that that even existed. So are we looking at a larger form?
So even though we know she's human, we couldn't really explain this form so well, and that's different. That's anomalous. Her hand shows three long fingers with metacarpals that properly articulate into the wrist joint. That would be extremely difficult to fake. They're they're not the stunted, fused bone structure you'd expect from a natural human birth defect.
And her skin that's un when it's under magnification shows dermal ridges running in straight parallel lines. No loops, no warts, no arches. That's not standard human fingerprint architecture. and nobody's produced a clean medical explanation for it yet.
Bones (19:37)
That's that's pretty wild. And but you know, we have to note that she's not she might be human, but she's not modern, right?
RamX Fortean Winds (19:44)
Right, mo multiple labs, multiple tissue samples, torso, hand, brain, all the carbon dating to roughly the same window about seventeen hundred years ago. that rules out a fresh hoax specifically for her, which is exactly why she stays in a different category than all the other specimens to me.
Bones (20:05)
Yeah, but I mean h why hasn't it resolved either direction by now?
RamX Fortean Winds (20:09)
Because the model that would resolve it already exists and it hasn't been applied to her as the standard it that it needs. So Gary Nolan's lab did exactly this with the Acomma skeleton. Full raw genome released publicly, open to the entire scientific community. the case was called resolved as a novel combination of human mutations. And that's the path. It needs to go the same route. It requires
full sample access and complete openness to outside peer review. And that hasn't happened with Maria. Not because the science can't do it, but because the access hasn't been granted at that level.
Bones (20:47)
So let's move on to the Bugosphere. and I know some of the numbers floating around this one are pretty wild.
RamX Fortean Winds (20:53)
Yeah, let's lay out what the proponents are claiming first in full, because I think it gets waved off too fast in most coverage. Then I'll tell you which parts the evidence is strongest around and which parts at this point are unsubstantiated.
The core physical claim comes from Jose Luis Velasquez, a radiologist Mason brought in to examine the object directly. His finding was a fully seamless metallic shell, no welds, no rivets, no assembly marks anywhere on the surface. under X ray, three internal layers of differing density.
plus what he describes as sixteen smaller microspheres encapsulated inside the core. He also ran
Bones (21:34)
Hmm.
RamX Fortean Winds (21:35)
a portable spectrometer reading and reported the alloy contains elements he couldn't match to the standard periodic table.
Bones (21:42)
Wow, so that's the titanium claim?
RamX Fortean Winds (21:45)
That's the titanium claim. Yes, a titanium-based alloy with what he's calling unlisted elements. Separately, there's a reported radiocarbon date pulled from organic material inside the object, landing in the range of twelve thousand five hundred years. If that holds up, you're talking about something that predates every known metallurgical tradition on the planet by a wide margin.
Bones (22:09)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (22:10)
And then on the surface markings, which were very interesting, an Italian linguist Agnesi Sartori.
Compared the engraved symbols to Sanskrit, Ogum, and early Mediterranean scripts, And she offered a full translation. Her reading isn't vague. She frames it as a direct message, a warning about historical cycles of cataclysm and a call to protect the planet.
Bones (22:36)
Yeah, that's that's fascinating. So the full case, if we state it plainly, is basically the seamless construction beyond known manufacturing, right? And and then you have the internal structure nobody can replicate, an alloy with unde un identifiable elements, and then you know, it's twelve thousand years old and it's carrying a written warning. I mean that's pretty amazing.
RamX Fortean Winds (23:03)
That's an amazing case
and let's give it some room because those are real specific falsifiable claims. There it's not vague gesturing at mystery. Steven Greer and Congressman Eric Burleson stood behind parts of it publicly at a press conference last June, and it's not really a fringe position inside the UAP community that this is real or not real.
Bones (23:27)
Right. So I mean, now for the caveat though, right?
RamX Fortean Winds (23:31)
Yeah, the caveats that make people think it's not real. And I wanna be precise about where this goes. The seamless construction claim and the internal layering claim, those come from an actual named radiologist running actual imaging
Equipment.
And we should treat those as real observations. Whatever the correct explanation turns out to be, that's what he saw. Those were that's what his readings say.
but then the thread gets lost a little down the stream of that. The radiocarbon figure and the specific elemental composition numbers that get repeated most often online don't trace back cleanly to a named lab, a published methodology, or a chain of custody that I can see. They show up first on aggregator and enthusiast sites, and by the time they reach mainstream coverage, they're being cited as settled fact within the community.
with the sourcing already stripped out. I'm not gonna
Bones (24:24)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (24:24)
do that,
Bones (24:25)
Right, right. So I mean, what do we actually know? What what can we put down on paper?
RamX Fortean Winds (24:30)
Well, we know that it was claimed to be found by a farmer named Jose Arias Restrepo March of last year after witnesses reported something moving erratically overhead near Buga, Columbia. It passed through a company called the Germany Company. That's a metal detection and electromagnetic survey equipment business, not a research institution, and then it went to Musan.
Bones (24:56)
Yeah, that's a f odd first step really. I mean, for a piece of potential alien technology, you know.
RamX Fortean Winds (25:03)
That's the detail that raised eyebrows, and a radiologist named Jose Luis Velazquez, hired by Masan, examined it and reports no visible welds or seams, three internal layers of differing density under X ray. Those are real checkable physical observations. They just need to go to a different lab.
Bones (25:24)
Right, right. But then it gets stranger, right?
RamX Fortean Winds (25:27)
Right, Velasquez has also claimed a portable spectrometer detected elements not on the periodic table. So I want to be direct about this one because it's not a matter of interpretation. It's not physically coherent. The the periodic table is organized by atomic number. There's no such thing as an element existing that isn't on it in principle.
A spectrometer coming back with an unmatched reading means the device's reference library didn't recognize the signature. Not the physics had been broken. That claim doesn't hold up on its own terms in the way that it's being circulated.
Bones (26:02)
Right, and one of the first claims I saw, because it only took the the instrument of a scale, is that it was that claim that it was gaining weight, right?
RamX Fortean Winds (26:13)
Yeah, the weight thing people keep bringing up. It it went from roughly two kilograms to nearly ten kilograms by their reports within a matter of days. But there
Bones (26:22)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (26:22)
was no controlled calibrated measurement behind that claim anywhere, like a scientific paper that says it started here, then it was here, then it was here,
Bones (26:30)
right.
RamX Fortean Winds (26:31)
and we use these instruments in order to measure it.
and taken literally, it violates conservation of mass. So that would be very interesting. And I I treat that as an uncalibrated field claim at best, not a verified result, meaning I I can't be sure unless I know which instruments they used to
Bones (26:51)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (26:51)
measure it and how it was measured.
Bones (26:54)
So what's the strongest piece of skepticism?
RamX Fortean Winds (26:58)
Well that's the lab footage itself. The independent digging. There was a write-up by a guy named Brian Downing, and it was corroborated by observers on Reddit and Metabunk. They found that the widely circulated laboratory analysis video was filmed inside the Germany Company's own facility. Staff in the footage are wearing coats branded Germany Company Laboratory. That's not an independent scientific lab.
That's promotional content for a metal detection equipment company dressed up as a research setting.
Bones (27:28)
So I mean, does does anyone credentialed actually weigh in? Or or you know, n someone that doesn't have some kind of connection to it?
RamX Fortean Winds (27:36)
Yeah, good
good question. Julia Mossbridge did
she's an affiliate physics professor in the University of San Diego. She's a real academic,
Bones (27:43)
Mm, okay.
RamX Fortean Winds (27:44)
right? No stake in the outcome, either direction. She looked at what's publicly available and called it, in her words, a really cool art project. She sounded genuinely skeptical, right? F from
Bones (27:54)
That's some skepticism. Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (27:57)
someone who is qualified to have an opinion
Bones (27:59)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (27:59)
on that.
Bones (28:00)
So, I mean, what about the surface markings? I mean, people keep bringing up those symbols.
RamX Fortean Winds (28:05)
This is where I find a big point of skepticism, and this is kind of making me think that this is a terrestrial object at this point. One is the linguistic analysis that we mentioned that Agnesio Sartori did. compared the glyph shape to elements of Sanskrit and offered a translation
About a cosmic warning about cataclysm and stewardship of the planet.
And I think you would even say this Bones as an anthropologist, that that kind of cross script comparison and translation from a handful of geometric symbols is exactly the methodology that trained linguists pus push back on really hard. Matching shapes across unrelated writing systems and then producing a coherent sentence from them is a known way to manufacture meaning that isn't actually there, like paridolia.
Bones (28:52)
Okay, so what's the other track?
RamX Fortean Winds (28:53)
That's the material science side. And this is the one that I'm really big on. So elemental scans around the etch symbols show the local silicon concentration spikes right along the grooves.
And those spikes were rising well above the surrounding metals baseline. That's a specific physical signature, so you know I'm gonna grab onto it. It's what you'd expect to see from silicon carbide abrasive blasting
or acid-resist etching. Those are standard human industrial engraving methods that are used to cut serial numbers into things or apply stress relief
Bones (29:26)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (29:27)
patterns into cast metal. That's not a subjective read of what a symbol might mean. That's a chemical fingerprint of how the mark got there and it points to a human tool, not a translation.
Bones (29:39)
Right,
right. So I mean, has anyone outside of a Masan's circle actually studied this thing properly?
RamX Fortean Winds (29:47)
Well, some people have looked like Velazquez and Mossbridge from a distance, a handful of private technicians. Besides that, nobody's run the protocol that would actually make a finding mean something. That would mean multiple independent labs, blind testing. Nobody told you in advance what you're examining. Results were would be compared afterwards.
At this point, no university physics department has taken custody no one in the scientific advisory board here for the president,
Sol Foundation types, I think Gary Nolan has even offered.
if he could guarantee a unbroken chain of custody. So he would have to go down there and pick it up himself probably and bring it back here to know that it hadn't been contaminated. And then he would run some material analysis on it, I think. You know, that's basically what he's been hinting at. But Harvard's Galileo project with Avi Lobe, that would be another good place for it to go. And it hasn't gone there
Bones (30:42)
Right, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (30:43)
either, right?
Bones (30:45)
Yeah, I mean I mean why not? If if if it's genuinely this interesting, I mean you'd think there would be a lot more people interested in researching it. I mean the only the the last bit of news that I remember hearing about was that there were three people very interested in it that were impersonating police officers who tried to steal it in Mexico, I believe.
RamX Fortean Winds (31:07)
That's what I heard as well. And I don't know that we've ever really gotten a resolution on that. I mean some people were saying it was a publicity stunt, but it sounded like
Bones (31:15)
No, could have been.
RamX Fortean Winds (31:17)
a a a real event.
I mean we'd like to believe that everyone in this situation i is a good positive actor, I'd like to believe that they wouldn't make something like that up, but it's never left Masan's control long enough for the kind of concentrated study that needs to happen.
Bones (31:34)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (31:35)
To happen, right? And and I think that the fear driving that, whether or not it's justified, could be straightforward, in which case Masana is afraid that if he gives the object up that the US government would take it or replace it with a fake, and then he would be saying that no, the real one you kept the real one, and this one that you're saying is a fake. You know, there would be a lot of back and forth
Bones (31:58)
Right, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (31:59)
and finger pointing maybe if if that did happen. But I I think this is the only way
forward on any sort of material science is unbroken chains of custody, third party labs. I think the public needs to see that at minimum.
Bones (32:14)
Yeah.
So I mean it it's kind of like the same bind as Maria.
RamX Fortean Winds (32:19)
It's identical and Masan has both objects. Like he has control.
Bones (32:23)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (32:24)
So Nazca shows you what happens when independent science do get a real look. You get you get findings. Some of them become damning and they're absolutely resolved, like the missing pizza form, you know, the the bone. And some genuinely unresolved, like Maria's hands that look to be real and skin.
Bugosphere shows us what happens when these objects don't go to third-party labs and become a part of promotional footage and start making claims without any sort of checks behind them. And
Bones (32:54)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (32:55)
the spectrometer result doesn't make physical sense, but we'd have to see it replicated. That's science. The difference between the two cases isn't the phenomenon, it's access. And in this case,
Bones (33:06)
Right, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (33:07)
right, it's Masan that's holding the keys.
Bones (33:10)
All right, so how do we tie it all together?
RamX Fortean Winds (33:12)
Well, Seoul is building a framework for how to eventually tell the public about evidence the government may already control. Nasca and BUGA are the opposite direction. They're evidence sitting out in the open. They're physically real that we should have access to, that nobody with the standing to verify it has been allowed to hold on to long enough to check. Different direction,
Bones (33:29)
Right, right.
RamX Fortean Winds (33:30)
right? It's a different direction. Same wall.
Bones (33:33)
Yeah. I mean possession of the items is the whole ball game basically.
RamX Fortean Winds (33:37)
It's whole ballgame. Everything else, the scans, the press conferences, the translation, it's downstream of one question. Who's holding it? And will they let it go long enough that we can find out what it really is? That's the same problem we have with the government right now.
Bones (33:52)
Hey, well that's probably a good place to stop. I mean really fascinating. I'm I'm happy that we're kind of back talking about the UAP phenomenon because you know that's where we that's where our roots come from.
RamX Fortean Winds (34:05)
Yeah, it's kinda nice to get back to some UFO discussion
And some really pressing updates because those two objects I think are still floating around the UFO community and UFO media. And it's nice to know where they stand with the scientific community. You're welcome to think whatever you want about them or whatever about the scientific data that's out there. I'm just telling you like what consensus science would read this as and
Bones (34:30)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (34:30)
the types of evidence that would be required in order for consensus science to say, yes, they found something genuinely anomalous that
Bones (34:41)
Yeah. I mean it's it's also kind of encouraging. I mean, we've been kind of poo-pooing the whole disclosure news in the past year or so, but the fact that the government is now really kind of taking extra steps to really decipher how a real disclosure situation would impact the public in in a more meaningful way.
RamX Fortean Winds (35:05)
yeah, I think for all of us who would like to see disclosure happen, that's a positive step forward. That's a real step forward. Like that now knowing how to go about messaging that and producing the least amount of damage, like that is really important because they may
Bones (35:21)
Mm.
RamX Fortean Winds (35:21)
be pressed to do some form of catastrophic disclosure.
in the future.
Bones (35:26)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (35:26)
They they may know that there's something coming and on the way and they say, hey, we're gonna be here on such and such date. And they may
Bones (35:34)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (35:34)
ha feel the pressure to to actually release this. So it would be good to have something like that in the in the wings. And I you know, we've kind of dabbled in this space of UFO disclosure. I mean I think we've told people things that are pretty hard to ignore. And
Bones (35:53)
Mm-hmm.
RamX Fortean Winds (35:54)
you know we we've tried to
get them through and tried in different ways. So I'm really interested in that. I'm really interested in how to message this in ways people will understand. Like especially that encounter architecture that we were was the last time we talked about UFOs.
Bones (36:12)
Yeah.
RamX Fortean Winds (36:12)
I've been sitting with that ever since. I don't know where to take it. I mean that really does speak to a different physics and a different reality, like and and that's really where it aims, but I don't know where to take it next scientifically.
Bones (36:26)
Right.
RamX Fortean Winds (36:26)
you know, where I can gather some real data towards that end without having hundreds of thousands of dollars myself. So we'll see.
Bones (36:33)
Right. It's
w it's like what you always say, don't get don't get ahead of the research, right? I mean
RamX Fortean Winds (36:38)
Yeah.
Bones (36:38)
or don't get ahead don't get ahead of the evidence.
RamX Fortean Winds (36:41)
That's good advice. I'll take that.
Bones (36:43)
Yeah. All right everyone. Well thanks for listening. this is Fourteen Wins. You could always visit our website at fourteen wins dot com. Thanks, Rom.
RamX Fortean Winds (36:54)
Thanks, bullets. Take care, y'all.