The Hidden Thread – Part 3: Shadows of the Black Sun

 As the Third Reich crumbled, its strangest ideas didn’t vanish — they mutated. In this episode, we follow the fallout of Nazi occult science, from the bizarre SS witch archive known as Project Hexen to the Soviet psi programs it helped inspire. 

We reveal how Nazi brainwashing techniques and esoteric warfare doctrines laid the groundwork for Cold War psychic experiments like MK-Ultra and Stargate. Then we return to the shadows of Der Riese, tracing the vanished trail of Hans Kammler — the SS general who oversaw Hitler's most secret weapons programs — and the myths of Die Glocke, a device said to defy gravity and reality itself. 

Some projects ended in 1945. Others were simply hushed up...

Read more about Fortean Phenomenon with our World War 2 Timeline:

https://forteanwinds.com/2025/04/26/fortean-phenomena-during-world-war-ii/

And check out our article Condign Revisited for a soft UAP disclosure:

https://forteanwinds.com/2025/05/14/condign-revisited-a-quiet-disclosure-lost-in-the-noise/

Transcript

00;00;04;17 - 00;00;31;08
Bones
Welcome to the Fortean Winds podcast, where we talk about UFOs and all the related high strangeness. I go by bones and with us, as always, is RamX Hey, everybody. Hey, Ram So this is the exciting conclusion to our, Nazi occult series right away. There's so much to talk about. How do we start? Or maybe better. Better question is, where did we leave off?

00;00;31;15 - 00;01;00;06
RamX
So it's so big, like. And we didn't get into a bunch of stuff in World War two that we're going to have to talk about because it unfolded afterwards. But if you haven't listened to the first two episodes, highly recommend you go back and listen to those. So when we left off, the Reich was in ruins. Berlin was burning, and the SS, which was once cloaked in rituals and racial mysticism, were basically dismantled.

00;01;00;09 - 00;01;28;16
RamX
Himmler is dead by suicide. Hitler is dead by suicide, most likely. And we talked about how Himmler was really the theological driver of the occult behind Nazi ism. In the last episode, we talked about how. Occult or esoteric Nazi ism was a subgroup within the larger Nazi Party. So there were people who identified as like Christian somehow, and we're still genocidal.

00;01;28;17 - 00;01;57;17
RamX
I don't know how they squared that circle, but there was that in Germany at the time, as historians like to point out. And there was even that in the SS, these ideas got into everything, right? The same way mystical ideas will penetrate Christianity or different religions today, right? And I know we discussed, you know, how all the mysticism, that Himmler was really into how that kind of the power dynamic shifted.

00;01;57;17 - 00;02;23;01
RamX
So where, you know, Hitler didn't like the fact that, later on didn't like the fact that the mysticism was still kind of hanging on there because he kind of threatened his own power. Exactly. Yeah. So Hitler was really more into the functional aspects of the esoteric, whereas Himmler was a true believer. Right? Hess was also a true believer.

00;02;23;03 - 00;02;56;15
RamX
But Himmler more important to the continuing story, because one thing we didn't get into was that Himmler started this project H and project H goes out in Germany at the time, undercover into different academic groups and into different academic institutions. And they also go across Europe, and they're going out there collecting tens of thousands of pages of these documents related to witch trials, related to witchcraft, related to witches being burned.

00;02;56;17 - 00;03;21;26
RamX
And Himmler has this idea that all of these witches must be German because. Right. Because he he believed in this idea of a psychic superman and a psychic Aryan race. And so his idea was, oh, well, if they had psychic powers or witchcraft powers, they must be German and Aryan. And here we are again, finding this imaginary history that he was creating.

00;03;21;28 - 00;03;52;28
RamX
Right. There's there's a bunch of things here. And project H really stood for Project Hexen aka witchcraft. So there's tens of thousands of pages are in a Nazi castle that falls under Russian control at the end of World War two. So there's tens of thousands of pages of humans under extreme circumstances and a cult like circumstances and possibly what worked and what didn't work.

00;03;53;01 - 00;04;18;05
RamX
Even though Himmler sold in this idea with a eugenics pen where he said, oh, the witches were all German, and then the people putting them to death were all Hebrews or Jewish, aka Christians too. And so he was aiming, you know, sideways at Christianity. But he knew like they were they were politicians. Himmler and Hitler were politicians for sure, right?

00;04;18;07 - 00;04;47;18
RamX
They weren't tough guys. That was very clear. Hitler did serve in World War One, but in World War Two, they were way in the back. Right. These guys were politicians. So the way he sold in witchcraft was to also give it this eugenic spin. But they collected all of this data, and then we know that they were also engaged in all of these astrological experiments, all these dowsing experiments and everything that went out and well was Castle, and that was what the online survey was also doing.

00;04;47;18 - 00;05;08;07
RamX
Well, they were going out to Tibet and engaging in these meditation rituals. They were looking for Thor's hammer. They were looking for the Holy Grail and all sorts of mystical things and trying to tie them together. All of that stuff either gets destroyed, looted or placed into the Russians or the Americans hands at the end of the war.

00;05;08;10 - 00;05;31;15
RamX
Right. And the project hex and stuff fell into Russian hands at the end of the war. The Soviets clearly didn't just shelve that astrological research. And by the way, the Soviets have a long history of occultism in their own country, like Rasputin, for example. Oh, of course. Yeah. And so, but Soviets didn't just shelve that Project Hex and stuff.

00;05;31;15 - 00;06;01;22
RamX
They started studying it, and they started to show a lot of advancements into research and the occult or psychic warfare that was starting to really scare the US at the time. And that that was going on in the 50s and 60s. So what do you think the US did in response? Well, of course, I mean, you got the Project Paperclip where they actually had groups of of German scientists basically help them.

00;06;01;27 - 00;06;25;08
RamX
The research. I think rocket science would probably be the number one reason why they had those scientists. Yeah, they they knew didn't you know, the Nazis had kind of a link into something, you know, they were just technologically more advanced and they wanted to know why. And they were worried that the Soviet Union was going to improve much faster than the US technologically.

00;06;25;14 - 00;06;50;04
RamX
Yeah. Imagine being the CIA and having all of those secrets and thinking there's some guy in a room in Russia that can just pop into that brain psychically at any time. And look at what you're saying so remotely spy, right? And that's a good reason why a lot of people believe that remote viewing has been kept, sort of suppressed.

00;06;50;07 - 00;07;15;02
RamX
We talked about the reality of remote viewing in several episodes and how everyone can do it, and how there's very good evidence that it works and there's good research into how to do it well and how to optimize it more, a good theory. So there's a good theory going around that basically says the reason that it's been suppressed by the government, CIA and academia is for that reason, right.

00;07;15;04 - 00;07;45;05
Bones
The CIA and powers that be don't want anyone just poking their nose into whatever it is they're doing. Right. So, yeah, I mean, just, just the term remote viewing, I think it came out, in the early 70s, like there was that documentary called, you know, Third Eye Spies, where they, they talk about, Russell Targ, who was a physicist and I guess apparent parapsychologist as well.

00;07;45;08 - 00;08;09;15
Bones
And the CIA was real interested in his work. And, that and I think I'm pretty sure he coined the phrase remote viewing. And so the CIA got really interested in his work. The timeline is strange, though, because then we talk about Stargate, and that's when the official program began. And I believe that was a military, Army Army intelligence program.

00;08;09;17 - 00;08;33;27
Bones
It started in 1978. So there's a little gap there. But I think when you when you have someone like Targ, who was a physicist, he was a practicing physicist looking into it and and showing some results. You know, it started to open some eyes and then the government is like, okay, we need to pump up some funding and get this rolling.

00;08;34;00 - 00;09;02;28
RamX
Right. And Stargate runs for a long time. It's not like just right. So they just took it took a couple of years and said, no, it's just psychic nonsense, right? I mean, it's almost 20 years of, of of not finding anything. I don't, you know, and even when they, discontinue Stargate program, which is under the Bush junior years, and a lot of that is said to have been because of religious reasons.

00;09;03;00 - 00;09;29;00
RamX
The Bush junior administration was notoriously religious. Right. Yeah. A lot of that was said to have been for religious reasons, but at the same time, it never stopped. So we have good evidence to say that even though the public facing program shut down and they said it was because they couldn't rely on the intelligence 100% of the time.

00;09;29;03 - 00;10;02;29
Bones
And that's a boldface lie. So Targ talks about that in that, Third Eye spy documentary. All the times that remote viewers have found stuff and we've heard from a number of sources on that. Yeah. And, and and just, you know, to to follow the timeline to today we, we, we end up with Jake Barber, right where he's he just recently described how how he's got they got a whole method of remote viewing where they're putting people in isolation.

00;10;03;05 - 00;10;20;25
RamX
Yeah, I could definitely see some Jake Barber parallels here. For sure. And we'll talk about those in the next episode. I think you wanted to cover current events, and we haven't done that in a while. Yeah, but I think it's just, you know, when you're looking at the timeline, I don't think it's ever stopped this research. Exactly.

00;10;20;26 - 00;10;50;05
RamX
Yeah. And those, practices that we saw Barber doing in the desert were basically gateway process research. So that starts in the late 60s and 70s as well. And the CIA studies gateway process and there's a paper that we have on our website we've talked about before that the CIA does is yes, the gateway process is real. If you can astral project, if you will, into another space of consciousness.

00;10;50;05 - 00;11;15;22
RamX
And within that space, sometimes you can see this world or in sometimes even the future of the past in this world. Yeah. One of the biggest contrasts, though, that I always think about, is that if the Nazis were playing or they were playing around with this remote viewing, with the idea in their minds that this Aryan race theory, that they had special abilities.

00;11;15;22 - 00;11;42;29
RamX
Right. And I wonder if that played in, did that give them more results? Yeah, exactly. Great segue because we're going to talk about Hans Kammler or Kammler, who was in charge of all of the advanced tech and the stuff we we set up in the last time talking about that dairy's complex in Poland. So a lot of their advanced tech and a lot of the probably the mystical stuff too.

00;11;43;05 - 00;12;17;03
RamX
There's a lot of talk about what happened in that complex. But the problem is, is that it's really confined to a couple of SS officers who claim make the claims. So Kammler runs this Der Riese program in Poland, and he's also running the concentration camps, and he's running a lot of stuff. And yes, he wasn't just any officer. By 1945, he was in charge of almost every major Nazi super weapon program, the V, to aircraft development, secret underground facilities and everything exotic.

00;12;17;05 - 00;12;42;22
RamX
And there was a program that he was running, which was like the common stuff. And it's it's kind of a predecessor to DARPA is today. Everyone, including the Russians and the Americans, all wanted to get at the information from the scholars, not because what they were doing was what, to some extent, DARPA is supposedly doing today, which is saying, well, what if dogma wasn't real?

00;12;42;25 - 00;13;19;20
RamX
Okay, so the Nazis were they were taking some of these ideas and saying, well, what if the occult was real? What if quantum physics was real? They were dealing with field effects. So we know that the the phenomenon is related to a lot of field effects. There are a lot of like the 1.6GHz at Skinwalker Ranch. We just, published an article called Condign Revisited, which I would really encourage everyone to read, which talks about the formation of plasmoid and how field effects are related to that and what a non-kinetic phenomenon is.

00;13;19;23 - 00;13;48;23
RamX
And it's related to a different field. The field that we're on is one world or reality, and then the field that these UAP are on are basically another that they understood that, okay, that could unlock a ton of stuff. Right? Right. Apparently based on reports, they were able to build what would be considered a RV, which is alien or anomalous reproduction vehicle or RV or reproduction vehicle.

00;13;48;26 - 00;14;16;14
RamX
I would definitely prefer the term anomalous reproduction vehicle to alien reproduction vehicle. Supposedly they were able to build one of these are vehicles and it was called Die Glocke,, which is the bell, right? Yeah. We meant to think we, touched on that on the last episode. Yeah, we touched on that in the last episode. I think Doctor Bruce mentioned it in our episode with him was a bell shaped object.

00;14;16;17 - 00;14;48;04
RamX
It does resemble the craft of the Kecksburg incident, which supposedly crashed in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. Okay. And that relationship seems like it would be more than coincidence whether the Nazis patterned the cloak off of a, anomalous object like that, or whether this was an American version of that object. There's a researcher who's dug into all this extensively. His work is worth looking at is Doctor Joseph Farrell, and he's done a lot of work.

00;14;48;04 - 00;15;11;15
RamX
And if you talk to some of the SS people who who made some of these claims as well, but a lot of those are claims and it comes from postwar testimony by SS officers who I wouldn't initially give a bunch of credibility to. Right. I mean, right, we're both German, by the way, and yeah, we do have German.

00;15;11;22 - 00;15;36;12
Bones
And I say it. Yeah, just in case anyone thinks we're being like, you know, we're picking on the Germans, like, right, we're right German. And they got. Yeah. You know, even even with the, you know, that Project Paperclip, you know, you always when you read about Project Paperclip, the ethical side to that project always comes up, too, because they were they were, you know, picking the brains of these former Nazis.

00;15;36;15 - 00;15;59;04
RamX
That's right. Yeah. And it's almost it's own thing is, so I've Project Paperclip just real briefly, what Project Paperclip is when they took these Nazi scientists who should have been under trial and should have been tried for their crimes and punished, and then instead, the US took them in and made them part of things like the rocket program.

00;15;59;04 - 00;16;24;07
RamX
So we've talked about Wernher von Braun, who's probably the most famous one, and he gets caught up in a lot of ufology, too. So that's Project Paperclip, and that is really where the scientist, we would assume from the color stop go to. So that means the UAP stuff went there to right. Yep. So we're tracking the way I see it, three threads here post-World War two.

00;16;24;07 - 00;16;48;17
RamX
And I think we can start to even wrap them up here. And it's number one which is the occult. So what happens to that afterwards. The area scifi portion. You know, I think there was a question maybe that we started with the beginning was, was this in a specific occult thread that wound its way into the Nazi Party and then wound its way out and is still working its way to today?

00;16;48;21 - 00;17;17;17
RamX
Not a specific one, I don't think. Right. Ariosophy basically dies out to the extent that the Nazi Party does it, even in small subset, you know, it exists today, and we all should be mindful in meme form. And that's basically when they're trying to whitewash or romanticize things. There's one, myth we should dispel, and that's Admiral Byrd's diary and some of the hollow earth stuff from Antarctica that allegedly happened after.

00;17;17;17 - 00;17;43;19
Bones
Right, right. World War two. Well, that didn't happen. So we point that as out and there sources on our Fortean phenomena article World War two. So right. That was the American explorer that went to Antarctica, correct? Yeah. Admiral Byrd, led an expedition, a military expedition. And I do think that there is something weird about that. We've never actually heard the real reasons behind it.

00;17;43;22 - 00;18;17;05
RamX
Some of the people on board of the ship did say that they maybe saw UAP, but that that's not that weird. There are naval vessels today, right? Seeing seeing UAP too. So, but as far as them going out there and finding a Nazi base in Antarctica, that was completely bull. And we even point to some of the verbiage that was in the suppose at Admiral Byrd's diary that they said, you know, discovered the hollow Earth, and then how Admiral Byrd really wrote and there couldn't be more night and day difference.

00;18;17;05 - 00;18;42;24
RamX
It's like, oh, we're flying over the target at zero 700 hours. You know, conditions are clear. That's that's Admiral Byrd. And then in the Admiral Byrd's diary, supposedly, you know, the luminous beings are trying. It's just to talk. He's not seeing ice anymore. He's seeing, like, forests. Yeah, exactly. And waterfalls. Yeah. Yeah, it makes for great fiction. But it's not true.

00;18;42;26 - 00;19;11;27
RamX
And some of that is kind of this continuation of that Nazi mysticism idea. So, but that's, that's that's where it goes. Right? There are some very interesting connections that Peter Lavender points to in his book series between individuals involved in the occult and certain individuals involved in things like Scientology and the Process Church, and how those things maybe continued some of these ideas as well.

00;19;11;29 - 00;19;37;01
RamX
I think those are worth looking into, but that's the goal. But probably the bigger thing that I would say maybe really affects us today is how the Nazis use propaganda and the occult in terms of programing societies. Right? Yeah, sure. So we got big difference. Yeah. We did. We talked about how this can be done through means, and it is done today through means.

00;19;37;04 - 00;20;03;15
RamX
You've seen this done through political parties, right? Of course. Yeah. And we're seeing it done by the people who worship those political parties for lack, I mean. Right, yeah. It really ends up being that. And so they're using those same tactics. There's using those same Jungian archetypes that the Nazis helped effect. And even brands are doing it today.

00;20;03;15 - 00;20;31;10
RamX
So I would say some of that part of a cultism, that very functional part that may or may not involve supernatural, that part worked its way into today, the government uses that stuff. There was operation MKUltra, where they were expanding on the Nazi mind control programs, where they were experimenting with acid and, you know, other ways to, to control people's minds that all came out.

00;20;31;13 - 00;21;10;03
RamX
That all came out, Operation Midnight Climax, where they were using prostitutes to push acid on the people. And then studying the effects. Right, like, control their minds. This was all happening like it's all documented on Wikipedia, found in history books. It's all real stuff. All of that grew out of the Nazi program as well.

00;21;10;05 - 00;21;35;10
RamX
That would be the other threat I think we have. What happened to the Nazi psychic experiments and mind control stuff? They continue. Right? That's what we find. We find that they continued into Russia, Russia advanced, and then we find that the US, in reaction, starts to try to play catch up really fast. The US says that they quit in 1995, but then we know that that's not true.

00;21;35;14 - 00;22;04;21
RamX
There's people like we will. Elizondo and all sorts of people in the public today saying that they received gateway training and other stuff in the military post Stargate. Then the third thread would be the tech. What happens to the Kammler tech? And all of that ends up, of course, you know, getting wrapped into these special access programs. And at that point, the US is very aware that the UFO phenomenon is very real.

00;22;04;21 - 00;22;26;12
Bones
They're already looking into it right? Yeah. Right. I mean, it's become very clear that this stuff hasn't stopped. When you talk about the the occult and you talk about, you know, governments using the occult, my my only concern is once the, you know, Pentecostal snake handlers start to infiltrate the US government, that's when. I mean, that's what I get worried.

00;22;26;15 - 00;22;32;15
RamX
Too late. Brother. Are they there? Oh, no.

00;22;32;17 - 00;22;53;27
RamX
Well, there's some pretty extreme religious types in Congress right now, and that gets interesting, right? I look forward to talking about this more. We're going to get into this in the next episode. But when we go into current events, I think we'll we'll talk about what's happening in Congress. We'll talk, especially what's happening with those Nazca mummies and this new bogus fear.

00;22;53;29 - 00;23;20;10
RamX
And we'll talk about the Jake Barber stuff, which definitely deserves talking about. And we'll talk about why we haven't been talking about it, which is basically look at how far you got just by listening to these three World War Two episodes. Look at how far you got understanding a little bit more about the phenomenon, as opposed to like listening to the latest click tease from the, hype man, right?

00;23;20;12 - 00;23;42;17
Bones
Yeah. For sure. I mean, further, yeah. I mean, it gives it gives us and our listeners, context and what we're talking about. Right. For sure. Well, I think that pretty much wraps it up. I'm we covered so much, through this series. And like we said, this just provides such a great and important context to what we talk about every episode.

00;23;42;20 - 00;24;09;04
Bones
So I'm sure it's going to come up again in the future multiple times. Absolutely. And now we'll have a little background. So when we talk about, you know, hey, how this object today resembles this object, World War two and how that relates the law ends up being important only to that extent. Right, right, right. Which so I look forward to talking about how that's all relevant to today in the next episode.

00;24;09;04 - 00;24;34;00
Bones
And we'll talk about some of these wild things that have been happening while we've been back in the 40s. Yeah. Excellent. All right. Well, thanks again. Room for another great discussion. I look forward to to more, to our listeners, check out our website. We're always posting new information as forteanwinds.com. And you can also check us out on TikTok and YouTube.

00;24;34;03 - 00;24;55;24
RamX
Yeah. And thanks for all of your wonderful notes and comments and your likes and subscribes and whatnot. It really helps because that's the only way people get to know we're out there. And your notes just drive us and keep us rolling. So thank you so much. And we look forward to that. All right. Take care. Take care.