The Tilted Halo
The Tilted Halo podcast has a refreshing and honest perspective on the challenges pastors face in their ministry and those involved in ministry as a whole. Hosted by Pastor Kathleen Panning, who has seen it all, this edgy show explores the idea that we all have a "tilted halo" - a recognition that we are not perfect and all make mistakes.
Through personal experiences, interviews with fellow pastors, leaders, and insights from scripture, this show offers advice and encouragement for those struggling with the weight of their imperfections. From burnout and rude awakenings to personal failures and shortcomings, The Tilted Halo provides a safe space for pastors to share their struggles and find support from a community of like-minded souls around the globe.
With a focus on authenticity, vulnerability, and humanity at large, this podcast challenges the notion that pastors must have it all together and invites listeners to embrace their humanity and lean into the grace of God. Whether you are a pastor or someone looking for a fresh perspective on life's challenges, The Tilted Halo is a must-listen in the search for hope, healing, and a renewed sense of purpose.
The Tilted Halo
EP 47: Connection is the Key: Reimagining the Volunteer Experience
In this episode I chat with Matt Hug, the master of volunteer recruitment and management, and we share the secrets to transforming your nonprofit's volunteer force. Get rid of those ideas of volunteer callouts, we're headed straight to the power of personal, one-on-one recruitment strategies. Volunteering's personal gains, from skill building to spiritual fulfillment, are often masked by the notion of selfless service. Together with Matt and I, will shed light on how these personal rewards are the actual fuel for long-term service and satisfaction.
It's not about the transactions, it's about the stories. Our conversation will also touch on the art of story sharing in donor engagements, where there is great effect in connecting with people on an emotional level, far beyond the balance sheets. Take these insights for your nonprofit or ministry and join the conversation for even more growth and learning opportunities.
Welcome to the Tilded Halo. This is a new podcast and it's for anybody who's a woman in ministry. You might be a pastor like myself, a bishop, a priest, a rabbi, music minister, elder children's minister whatever your title is, You're absolutely in the right place, especially if you're someone who loves your ministry and you're doing it well and you're feeling pressure to sometimes be perfect and deep down inside, you know you're not, and how in the world to deal with that? And men, you're absolutely welcome here too, because this is about ministry and the same thing can happen to you. So you're all in the right place. Let's get started with the show.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another edition of Tilded Halo and glad that you're here. And I have a surprise because I have a guest today, One of the few times I have done that, and I am delighted to welcome to the show today Matt Hug. And Matt has done a lot of things with nonprofits and I'm going to let him share a little bit more with you about that, about his very extensive resume with that. But you know the many different kinds of things you've done, Matt. And I mean this show is about all of us as people who often work with nonprofits, either as leaders in a nonprofit or as members of a nonprofit, a faith community. So please tell us a little bit about your background.
Speaker 2:Yeah, happy to. So I spent a lot of time in fundraising, have a degree in fundraising and about gosh. In the early 2000s I started doing consulting for other for organizations out in the world, particularly around here in Philadelphia, and I started teaching with my master's degree and some of the experience I had and a nice connection through networking, which is something you do when you're doing this. I started teaching at Eastern University, which is Baptist University here in suburban Philadelphia, and I was teaching in the nonprofit management program and they had me a bunch of places around the world a couple of African countries, southeast Asia and Europe and a few places here in the US and I was finding that people really turned on the video. You know, I could give them a paper, I could give them a video and I would get more feedback on the video.
Speaker 2:And I made some of my own videos for class. I was making a playlist for them off of YouTube and I found that, but kind of by accident, that nonprofit dot courses was a new website available that I bought, got the domain name and started putting some content on there. Now I have 10,000 videos actually connect out to people's videos, about 200, some contributors to the website of all different things nonprofit from things that everybody uses, including nonprofit like HR and how to make presentations, and all to very specific things about nonprofits like how to volunteer, management, accounting, fundraising, things like that. So, yeah, nonprofit dot courses is what I do most of my time. I still do some writing and things, but yeah, that's kind of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know we're going to talk about some of those kinds of things that you have found and some of the tips and tricks that you have found along the way, and one of them I want to start with the whole big, important topic of volunteers, because there is no nonprofit on this planet that can have enough staff to do everything. It just doesn't work, and so we all need volunteers, whether it's a secular organization, environmental or a faith community. We need volunteers, and in faith communities, the volunteers most 99% of them are members of that faith community, and so you have kind of a double edged reality with that, and it'd be interesting if there's anything that you found about that part of it that makes for something, some important things. But let's just talk general to begin with. What are recruiting volunteers is where that starts. So how do you, what are some things to let people know about recruiting volunteers?
Speaker 2:Well, maybe the first thing to know is what not to do. But we all do it, we've all been there. So, which is standing up in front of a group whether you're standing on the pulpit or you're, you know, in a committee right, and saying, hey, who wants to volunteer for? And expecting that people are going to raise their hand and that you're going to have so many people to do this right? And, yeah, you know, the thing is that it seems so efficient and you know, theoretically it is right, you're gonna do this right, but it's it kind of gets the human nature. Humans are not good with anything more than ones and zeros. I think it's probably why we can invented computers that way. Right, one, zero, one, zero is that, you know us with all of those people doesn't work well. And so what you'll see, what you know traditionally. You find that that Image of you know who wants to volunteer and all these people step back and the one person forgot. You know it's there and he's gonna be the volunteer, right, but you start seeing people put their eyes down and they literally sit on their hands or whatever, or hold the person you know maybe their spouse next to them say no, no, no, put your hand so. So that's not what to do.
Speaker 2:The really important thing to do is to make it a one-to-one kind of recruitment.
Speaker 2:But it's also important not to be to do two things, not to be overwhelming right.
Speaker 2:So you have to help somebody understand unless you have a really well established relationship with somebody, that it's going to be a discrete task, something that you can draw a circle around, that they can accomplish and Finish and they will feel good about that and you will feel good about them having done that right.
Speaker 2:And then, with that is a timeframe, because especially nowadays, folks don't want to get into this Undying commitment. I mean, think about what it does to if you, if you have somebody out there, a group of people who are always volunteering in that, whatever you know you're running an event or you're on or whatever it is right, they become that click who always does that? And You're doing two things. First of all, you're excluding other people from participating in that. You're also not bringing in new ideas and you know when that click kind of ages out right or whatever. Now you're stuck at zero again and so it's. It's important to have volunteers kind of come in and out, have, I don't know terms of service or something to end so that you can rotate folks through and get new people engaged.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I like what you said about being being individual in the ask, asking individuals and then being specific about the task but also the timeframe. My mentor here, tiffany Largy, has talked about usher land Is the term she uses and it's the idea that if you volunteer to be an usher, once you are in it for the rest of your life and it becomes like a lifetime commitment. But he could still ask somebody to usher and say can you do it for this right or or can you do it at Specifics, even just one particular service, that we need extra usher for A Christmas Eve service or something you know? Whatever it is to be Specific about the ask and not have it be an open-ended. Who can you be the head of the ushers for now and into eternity? No, we're not gonna volunteer for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know, people don't some people want to do something they. They love having that stability and a predictability. Now the question is do you want that Right? Because at some point things aren't going to change and they've gotten into a routine. They're always going to do it that way. And there's a whole other issue about we always do it that way. But yeah, it's good. It's good for the health of the organization overall that to have this kind of turnover.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's a really good point, because I've been in situations where I mean there's this, this little group of people who are used to running the church school program or the ushers or whatever, and they do become a click and Getting and somebody new may come into the congregation and they may be willing to do it, but feel Like they're not wanted and not welcome because it's always the same old, same old people and they aren't Really willing to ask new people and let them in, because sometimes new people bring new ideas. I know and oh Can threaten the way things were. In fact there was a A play, a musical not too long ago called the church basement ladies and it was about the, the women of a Mythical Lutheran church, and how they, the older women, controlled how everything was done for preparing meals and he had a couple of younger women coming in and how they didn't always feel welcome.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't be a play, but actually my wife has experienced that in a church situation, yeah, and so yeah it, it was built off the, the reality of many people's experience, and there were some really funny things in the, in the play, but and there was a second version of it, a second helping of the same thing, but it. It was funny because it was so true.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, you know, it was funny because of that. Um, so what else about volunteers? Uh, you talk about it's um, yeah, how do we think about the volunteers in relation to the ministry or the mission of the organization?
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, I mean, one of the things I really encourage folks to do is to build what I call a volunteer covenant. Now, it's not necessarily a volunteer job description. It's actually that and more, because often what happens is you know when ideally every volunteer should have something written down that says here's what you should do right Now. We know that doesn't happen all the time and people kind of make it up along the way, which is a problem in itself, right. But if you have some kind of job description, that's great, but that's only half the job, the half the task there for you. What also has to happen is what is the volunteer getting out of it? Because that's huge.
Speaker 2:We think of it as an organization of what can the volunteer do for us and makes sense? Right, because you're putting the needs of the organization right out front there. Right, you need somebody in the nursery, you need a nutcher, you need somebody to set up the you know, the communion service, whatever. It is right and that's great. But what is the volunteer getting out of it? Can you enumerate that? Can you go say this is you know what you might get out of doing this job?
Speaker 2:People want to volunteer, but they also have their own interests, and it's not a bad thing, right? Maybe they want to experience some growth. It's something they've never done. They've never read from the Bible in front of the congregation, and this could be a real growth opportunity for them. Right, and so you can describe. You know, this will give you a chance to hone your reading skills and to work with other people. And you know, pick the selection, however that works in your congregation. Right, but making that covenant, that back and forth, is really important Because it makes it feel like, wow, these people appreciate me, I could get something out of this and you know really what. They're probably going to do more for you, because they feel like it's a two-way street instead of just a one-way. Here I am. I got to volunteer again, right, and it becomes less of a burden.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a word that always gets my ears pricked up these days, and it's the word appreciate, and to me that is so critical for working with volunteers or working with anybody really.
Speaker 1:But especially with volunteers, is having letting them know how much you know if I'm the faith leader or the elected leader of congregation, how much I appreciate, instead of taking them for granted, which all too often volunteers feel like they're taken for granted. But you know, showing that appreciation and not just saying thank you once a year at the end of the year or something like that, but doing some specific things to show that appreciation doesn't have to be monetary, it can be other kinds of appreciation. Well, you know you've what would you share with us.
Speaker 2:You tripped a few synapses here. For me, I don't like to say so. One of the things is that you don't. You know there's a guy, daniel Pink, who wrote this book called Drive, and he talks about autonomy, mastery, purpose, right, and now it's Essentially it's a book about motivating people in the workplace Right, but it works totally with volunteers as well. Where people want to have autonomy, they want to feel like they're intelligent and you're trusting them with something and they can go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in a nonprofit, in a church situation, you can't afford to micromanage people. You just don't have that kind of time, right. So that's really important. Mastery is all about them understanding, learning what they're doing right, it's a growth experience for them. So that's really important. But the key one is purpose. Nonprofits, own purpose. You know, if you work for a widget company, they have to invent purpose. You already got purpose. So connect whatever you're doing. Even if you have somebody doing your books, right, as a volunteer, show them what their accounting is making happen. Those kids are getting VBS, those you know this congregation, those older people are getting visited. You know there's a mission trip going someplace, right, get them engaged at a point where they can see what's happening on the ground. That's hugely motivating, especially when the volunteer opportunity is disconnected from the actual doing of the mission of your organization.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's a huge part of showing the appreciation, yes, is knowing that they have a purpose there and it's not just busy work, no, exactly, it's not just well, pastor doesn't have time, well, and one of the things that Pink brings up and another guy named Casser.
Speaker 2:There's a book called the High Price of Materialism, which is really cool. I used to use it in my teaching and they talk about the fact that you don't have to give money to motivate. It's fascinating. Now, of course, in this church situation, you're probably not going to be doing that anyhow, right? But the people who get motivated get episodic recognition and gifts or something. So it's not like this thing. You know, ozzly, I have never been to a volunteer appreciation lunch and dinner or whatever right that people show up to in droves. It just doesn't happen, right? But back to that one-to-one relationship where do something special for somebody because you know them and you know they would appreciate that. That's huge. Yeah, that really motivates people, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's so much. We could probably do the whole show on just volunteers, and that would be a bad thing. But I also would like to talk a little bit about you know. Sometimes we start kind of with an idea for a ministry of some sort and there are ways to spin that off to a nonprofit, and so if you would share a little bit about that because I do want to get to one other point yet which has to do with dollars and cents as well, but talk a little bit about you know just some of the key things to think about for spinning off to a nonprofit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's important to look at. When you do something like that, you're going to gain some things, you're going to lose some things. One of the things you know you're you're gaining is actually the lack of liability for whatever the organization is doing. A lot of times churches will have things under their umbrella that you know might be kind of risky one way or another, and by spinning them off, you are having them stand independently and that risk can move to an organization that, if something goes wrong, it's not going to have an impact on on you. So so that's, that's number one.
Speaker 2:The other things I'd say is that you're going to start to, you would hope, bring in people to that ministry that are not necessarily connected to your congregation, and, and it can be a real advantage Look okay, so years gone by, my son was in scouting. I spent a lot of time in scouting when I was a kid, as a leader and even as a professional for a while, right, and churches would sponsor Boy Scout troops, and yet it was. You could organize this so that it might be separate and that's kind of the the. There's liability issues that go with the troop, right, but you're bringing in people who might come in for never enter your church otherwise and kind of as a door opener into it. But it's separate enough that they don't feel like they're going to your church, at least not ostensibly. Might be physically going there, right, and so that that's a way of bringing people in, so it exposes people to your. I'm sorry, go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I was thinking that there are some congregations that start a like a preschool program or something like that and for the community, depending upon where they live and where the actual facility is located, and that can be a wonderful way of introducing parents with young children to your congregation, not requiring that they be members, but sometimes they do join because of the nature that their kids are there and they get familiar with the people and things like that. So it can be a way not only of letting people know about your congregation but actually growing the congregation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I've seen that happen. Actually, couples church have been involved with head preschools where that really makes a big difference. I'll tell you the biggest the in my mind, the, the arch typical example, the super successful example, almost to the point, where actually they kind of forgot. The organization that spun off, forgot its roots, was Heifer International.
Speaker 2:Heifer actually started as a church of the brethren ministry and you see, that's new to you didn't know that and it started there and then they spun that off and it became so much more and they don't necessarily connect back to the church of the brethren. By the way, listeners, if you have a child and they want to learn more about Heifer, grab a book called Faith the Cow. It's a really cool introduction to that organization.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the it also. It has a two edge sword, though, when it comes to funding, and that is now. This organization can go get its own funding, and that might be part of the purpose to take it off your budget, right. However, some of that funding might come back from the people who are in your congregation, so you have set up a competitor, too. They can go out and fund their organization from outsiders, but there are going to be people in your congregation who feel strongly about that ministry, whether it's part of it or independent, and they will continue to do that.
Speaker 1:Right, good point, good point. But that brings me to the other topic I at least want to talk about, and that is funding.
Speaker 2:Ah-ha, done, done, done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, small topic, yeah, again, we could be a whole, a whole episode on that. And raising funds, yes, and I like one thing you shared with me as a reminder that funders, the people who provide the funds, are not at 8 pm. Oh yeah, and sometimes, you know, we keep asking and asking and asking over and over and over for more and more and more, and there aren't limits. We all have a budget, we all have life and responsibilities. So what are some other ways, some other ideas, some dos and don'ts, tips and tricks, whatever you want to call them, to generating revenue for a faith community?
Speaker 2:Well. So it's important to remember, first of all, that you're right, they're not ATMs. You don't. And particularly I teach a course in grant writing, right, and a lot of folks, oh, just send in the papers, get money, right, it doesn't work that way. It's not like you put your card in or anything. However, if people are passionate about your mission, whatever it is you're doing, they will find their resources to help you.
Speaker 2:When somebody says I can't afford something, that has twofold meaning. Right, one is they don't have the money, and that's what they're implying, but really, more times than not, it is that this is not a priority for me, so they don't make room in their budget. And yeah, there is a limit for everybody. But if somebody doesn't like you or fails, they'll give you $10 that they love you, they might give you $10,000, even though you only expect they have the capacity to do $1,000 for you. They might figure that out somehow, maybe in their will, maybe some plan giving means or something.
Speaker 2:But it's important that you think of all philanthropy, all giving, as a one-to-one kind of proposition. And especially, I made up something years ago from my classes that I call the formula for fundraising. And so people say, gee, what is the magic formula? Well, it's not magic, it's actually kind of math or it looks math-like. I say it's one-to-one slash four-one. So if you write it down one-to-one slash four-one, which means one-to-one me to you, kathleen, back and forth for that person whom we are helping and our mission helps. So you bring the resources, I bring the program. Now we're kind of on an equal basis on this right, because we're both bringing something to the table for the purpose of helping that person for which our mission serves. And it really takes the edge off for a lot of people because they're like wow, I'm not begging, I'm partnering with somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's really important to remember because many faith communities it's funding for the budget and for the day-to-day things and nobody really gets excited about, you know, keeping the lights on. I mean, yeah, we want to have the lights on for services and things like that, but you know who gets excited about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's what the lights do Right and who and it's always important to put it down to a person who are the lights benefiting, so that you know sanctuary, those lights are on, those kids are getting whatever you know the children's sermon out of it, or the people in the pews are getting something out of it. Or downstairs, like you talked about, the folks in the kitchen are doing. You know everybody's getting something out of that. So focus on the people we're serving Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's something that it's too easy to forget. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Especially when that bill comes Right here's like oh, I need to pay this right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's you know, especially as a faith community thinks about its budget, planning, time and whatever. You know, how can we word these things and I think that's where many other kinds of nonprofits do a much better job than most faith communities do as to how to tell the story as a story, and to what? Who are we? Because sometimes I find that faith communities forget who they are and why they're really there.
Speaker 2:Let me give you a way to get your head around this. I find helpful. My students, okay, if you're of a certain age, and even, I find that, people who aren't of a certain age, because the reruns are out, we all know the Brady Bunch, right, and you see in the beginning, the first lines of the Brady Bunch, you see the grid right Of here's mom and dad and the kids and they're all kind of pictured out there, right, but what do they say? They don't talk about numbers, they don't talk about all of the. You know. You could say, okay, here are the data points and we have so many kids and we have two parents and we have a housekeeper, and we do this and we do that, we live here, right, and you can point, point, point, point, point.
Speaker 2:No they start out with it's a story. That's the first lines of that song when they show that grid. So they're not talking about all of those, the things that people don't relate to. They connect those things to a story. That's what our fundraising needs to be out of, because humans learn by stories. We may have become really good at data or not, maybe sometimes but we learn by stories, and so to get somebody engaged in a story about what you're doing is really important. And again back to one-to-one Me, to you just talking.
Speaker 1:And unfortunately, I see too many congregations that have forgotten their story, and that's something that I like to work with them on and re-energizing that story. But I want to say thank you so much, matt. Hopefully maybe we can do this again and go a little deeper on some things, because I know there's so much more to talk about than we had time for. So, but we can't go on for six hours. Well, we could go on for six hours.
Speaker 2:Our audience may not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we could go on for six hours with this, but thank you so very, very much. And, matt, let them know where they can get a hold of you for more and for that website name again for all of these wonderful courses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually the best way to get a hold of me is to go to nonprofitcourses, notcom, ororg butcourses, and just click on the contact button there. That'll bring up a little form. You can fill it out and that sends an email right to my inbox almost instantaneously, and I'm happy to connect with folks who send me notes. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, matt, and thank all of you who have been listening and being here today with Matt and me, and come back again for another episode of the Tilted Halo. We'll be back again. You have been listening to Tilted Halo with me, kathleen Panning. What did you think about this episode? I'd really like to hear from you. Leave me some comments, be sure to like, subscribe and share this episode and catch another upcoming episode. For more conversation on ministry, life, mindset and a whole lot more, go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've got a resource guide and other resources waiting for you, and be sure to say hi to me, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:See you on the next episode.