The Tilted Halo
The Tilted Halo podcast has a refreshing and honest perspective on the challenges pastors face in their ministry and those involved in ministry as a whole. Hosted by Pastor Kathleen Panning, who has seen it all, this edgy show explores the idea that we all have a "tilted halo" - a recognition that we are not perfect and all make mistakes.
Through personal experiences, interviews with fellow pastors, leaders, and insights from scripture, this show offers advice and encouragement for those struggling with the weight of their imperfections. From burnout and rude awakenings to personal failures and shortcomings, The Tilted Halo provides a safe space for pastors to share their struggles and find support from a community of like-minded souls around the globe.
With a focus on authenticity, vulnerability, and humanity at large, this podcast challenges the notion that pastors must have it all together and invites listeners to embrace their humanity and lean into the grace of God. Whether you are a pastor or someone looking for a fresh perspective on life's challenges, The Tilted Halo is a must-listen in the search for hope, healing, and a renewed sense of purpose.
The Tilted Halo
EP 50: Empathy and Forgiveness in Breaking Cycles
What does it take to rise above life's toughest challenges?
Join Kathleen Panning as she shares an enlightening conversation with Aretha Taylor, a trailblazer who overcame a tumultuous childhood in Brooklyn to emerge as a successful pastor and CEO. Aretha candidly recounts her journey through the shadows of molestation, abuse, and homelessness, where the power of community and self-belief served as her guiding light. Her story is a beacon of hope and resilience, shedding light on the strength found in positive influence and the transformative potential of surrounding oneself with empowered individuals.
As we unravel Aretha's insights, we encounter stories of healing and redemption, including a daughter's journey to understanding her mother's struggles beneath a facade of toughness. We delve into the deep wells of forgiveness and empathy, breaking generational cycles of pain in the process. Aretha shares her dedication to building trust and offering consistent support to marginalized groups, emphasizing the value of every individual.
This episode promises a heartfelt exploration of compassion, resilience, and the incredible impact of recognizing every person as a gift in our collective journey towards healing and empowerment.
DISCLAIMER: This content includes discussions of sexual, and emotional abuse and domestic violence. Please proceed with caution if these topics are triggering or distressing for you.
Welcome to the Tilted Halo. This is a new podcast and it's for anybody who's a woman in ministry. You might be a pastor like myself, a bishop, a priest, a rabbi, music minister, elder children's minister whatever your title is. You're absolutely in the right place, especially if you're someone who loves your ministry and you're doing it well and you're feeling pressure to sometimes be perfect and deep down inside, you know you're not, and how in the world to deal with that? And men, you're absolutely welcome here too, because this is about ministry and the same thing can happen to you. So you're all in the right place. Let's get started with the show.
Speaker 1:Welcome to another episode of the Tilted Halo, and that is me, pastor Kathleen Panning. And I am here with a very special guest today, someone I met a couple months back at a conference, and she is Aretha Taylor, founder, chair, president and CEO of New Beginnings Outreach Program for Women. It's a non-profit organization for women and young girls of abuse, substance use, incarceration, mental and emotional illness and homelessness. She's also the founder and owner of New Beginnings Life Empowerment LLC, which is a transitional life skills company aiming to develop healthy personal, mental and emotional transitions. Aretha Taylor also serves as the founder and pastor of Kingdom Faith International Outreach Ministries and Missions, registered in the United States and Jamaica. As a visionary word recognition recipient, author, entrepreneur and transitional life strategist, aretha excels as an orator, an international public speaker, a podcaster, a facilitator, a radio host, a pastor, a philanthropist and a mentor. Her multifaceted career is dedicated to empowering women. Multifaceted career is dedicated to empowering women, men and young people, fostering personal growth and transformation within her community and globally. Aretha, welcome to the Tilted Halo.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Pastor. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Well, it's awesome and wonderful to have you here, pastor Aretha, and I'd like to start out by asking my guests please tell me, and tell our audience, some of your story, how you got to be who you are and where you are.
Speaker 2:these days and where you are these days. Well, my story is filled of a lot of trauma from when I was a child growing up in Brooklyn, new York. Types of trauma that I endured were sexual molestation, abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse. I was also homeless for four years with my daughter. At the time I got pregnant at 15 years old and I dropped out of high school at the age of 16, when I was in the 10th grade, and that was mainly to support my daughter and to support myself my daughter and to support myself because we I didn't have that community right to help me and at the time of birth no one reached out to me really to see how I was doing, to be that community for me, to support me and to encourage me. So I felt very much alone and abandoned and rejected, especially by the church right.
Speaker 2:And I remember after having my daughter, my mom was extremely abusive. She was still very much abusive and I didn't want to put that strain on her. So I decided I was going to leave and I left without knowing really or having a plan and that's how I became homeless for four years and through that, after being homeless for four years, um found my own apartment after going back to my mom's house for two years, right, um, I didn't want to, but the lord told me to go back because of all that I was going through. Gone back at the age of 20 and 22 was the first time I had my own apartment. I became small, I was working at a hotel, and that's where my new beginning, part of my new beginning- that's quite a journey.
Speaker 1:You've experienced and seen some of the more unfortunate and darker sides of the life of many people. What kinds of insights has that given you, for yourself and for other people?
Speaker 2:and for other people, Strength. That was a time of my life where I actually thought it was my life was over, but the negative words that were spoken to me. They empowered me instead. The words that were told to me that I am nothing, I would be nothing. Words that were told to me that I am nothing, I would be nothing, I will always be nothing. Those words empowered me. Even after I dropped out of high school, I told myself that I did not want to hang out with high school dropouts. I want to be around high school dropouts because I felt what they do for me to be around high school drop-offs because I felt what they do for me. I could be with people who were strengthened, who were empowered, who were educated and older than I was. So that's what I did. I started hanging out, befriending people that were older than.
Speaker 2:I was smarter than I was, that were in college, that were educated and that had resources, so I taught myself how to read, how to spell, how to speak. This was I trained. I was literally smart. It's always true no matter what, you must first first believe. And it sounds like a little cliche, but you have to first believe you can do it. And even though everyone else around you is telling you it's impossible, it can't happen, it's not going to happen, and all the negative words that were spoken in your life because power is in our mouth. Speak can either bring death or life, and so I felt at the time that my life was over, but because of the people that God had placed me around at that time. They were so self-sufficient and they were so empowered and they believed in themselves and they loved themselves.
Speaker 1:That was imparted into me at a young age, as a teenager wow environment has a lot to do with how you feel about yourself yeah, the the importance that shares and shows us of having people around us who have a different perspective. Number one, and it's a positive one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That something different is possible, absolutely that it's there for them. So that means, maybe, just maybe it's there for them. So that means maybe, just maybe it's there for you too. And um, and I'm not quite clear on this, but did they help you to feel more empowered and help you develop that sense within yourself? The more positive view.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because I had a low self-esteem.
Speaker 1:How did they do that? What were some of the things they did?
Speaker 2:They stood in the mirror and they would dance to music and they were all kisses at themselves, would dance to music and they were all kisses at themselves, dancing in the mirror and telling themselves how beautiful they are. And I remember one of the young ladies was doing that with my daughter. She had my daughter at the age of three standing with her and dancing and she was saying, carissa, tell yourself you're beautiful, tell yourself you're beautiful, tell yourself you're sexy. And me not knowing better, I said don't tell her that. And she looked at me and she says but she is, and she needs to know that and she needs to believe that and so do you about yourself. That got me, because I never had that, I was never told that.
Speaker 2:And I never told, nor thought that I could do that, that I could tell myself these things. But when she said this, something in me just registered, just changed Wow, because I'm going to in me to call that to my daughter, to raise my daughter in that way in that environment. It did that for the both of us. It was teaching me to love Aretha.
Speaker 1:Today there are many people who talk about affirmations and positive affirmations, and obviously that was a very positive affirmation for you, but it was also, as I understand it, a gift of love to you, to somebody told you you were level bull and that you could experience that love, and to share that with your daughter as well and for her to know that she was loved. How powerful that is for us to know when we are loved and to receive that.
Speaker 2:Yes, extremely beautiful. She was surrounded by love. She was surrounded by the friends, the acquaintances that I had in my life at that time. They loved on her and they loved, you know, regardless of what we were going through at the time. So she understood love from a very small age.
Speaker 2:Because I wanted that for her, I wanted to impart that in her. I felt that that was extremely important and it was needed for her and for myself, you know, because I didn't grow up in that environment to love me and I didn't know what it was like to have friends to love friends or friends to love me and to say I love you. You know, I thought it strange when my friend at that time in our late teens, when she said to me I love you, aretha, I was like what in the world? I didn't know what to say, I didn't know how to. You know, not accustomed to her, I started getting accustomed to say I love you, you know, and knew that there wasn't anything wrong with that, that that was a great and wonderful gift to have that female and demonstration of love yeah, the words are so important and so many of us and grow up and where those words are not spoken, actions are very powerful too.
Speaker 1:But sometimes we just really need to hear those words.
Speaker 2:And I love saying it and I love hearing it from you, Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1:It's. You described that moment, when it seems like that moment was when things started to shift for you in many ways, to hear somebody say you know you are loved and you are lovable and worth being loved in a very healthy, positive way. Sometimes we use those words in some very unhealthy ways and, uh, it becomes oppressive. It's not really, uh, the kind of love that's described in scripture. It's not really, um, a gracious love, it's a. It's also manipulation. Yeah, yeah, um. So to have that freedom of real love, yeah, that's it. It is. I hear in you the freedom that that brought to you.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. And you know what, when I thought about it now, I can think about it In regards to my mom. My mom died when she was 92 years old and you know, during those eras, those days, during that time being raised in Jamaica because she was a Caribbean right, they still don't. We're not affectionate people, the culture not affectionate, don't hug, don't? You know? And I had to give her grace, I had to forgive her for that, because she too was hurting. So he hurting woman waiting with children and so raised in a hurt environment. We're being raised coming from a hurt place because she wasn't healed herself right. So with a lot of hurt, a lot of anger, a lot of resentment and bitterness, also toward herself or the decisions that she made in her life or the things that happened to her or the trauma that happened to her. So in her she turned around and she raised eight children on her own. Wow, coming from a hurtful place.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Place of just fearful and trauma, traumatic, right, mm-hmm, that was imparted in us. So after me getting to know my mom, right, I went to live with her when I was about 45 years old, not because I wanted to, not because I had the right choice, but Hurricane Sandy, I was forced to leave New York to live with her in Florida and that's when I got to know her. It was not easy because my mom was bipolar and she was also a narcissist that whole dynamic. It was very unhealthy.
Speaker 2:I felt led, while staying with her, to sit with her from time to time and just talk with my mom, have conversations with her. Like, take it back to when she was a child and she was in her teen, learned so much about my mom and sometimes she'd be crying and telling her stories, but I realized this was her therapy. She never had the opportunity to really sit with anyone and see about her trauma and my mom talked about a time when she was being, when she was raped by three men wow age, she never talked about it. So she's bearing that guilt and shame for years because you're not supposed to talk about these things, right, it happens to so many of us. So in learning her in talking to the woman, the child, the young, not the mother, because sometimes we forget our parents. They were boys and girls before they became parents, right?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I was speaking to the woman and she lied that she was carrying, so I got to know her in a different way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it reminds me of how in scripture we talk about. You know, the sins of one generation are passed on and from generation to generation. Because it's not resolved and it's not, we don't forgive ourselves and bury that then on to another generation and that chain that's broken of passing it on. When we hear the message of love and grace and are able to forgive ourselves and, like you, then forgive your mother too. If you can say something about the amount of healing that brought to you and to also to your mother, as she was able to share some of that she didn't say it but I know she had a lot of healing going on with her.
Speaker 2:She did a lot of crying, she was a very emotional person anyways, but in talking with her and the tears would flow. Tears would speak volumes. And even though she didn't say much like forgive me, I'm sorry, her tears did Because I knew that she felt she also disappointed us in ways, Raising her because she didn't know any better, she did what she could that time.
Speaker 2:She wasn't given any tools Like today, what we have, what we are privy to, right, what we're exposed to. They weren't exposed to these things like she didn't have a mom to teach her and to raise her and to tell her, for that grew up on her own. Her mom died when she was like maybe about four years old oh, that's her dad when she was a teen and late in her late teens. So she didn't have anyone to teach her. She was learning as she was going Right and our culture. We're very aggressive people. We say the worst things that comes out of our mouths because we think that's a form of therapy. Instead of saying, well, daughter or son, um, let's see how we can do this better. You know, uh, instead of encouraging us, they'll call us names like you know, that was stupid of you. You're stupid or you're dumb or you're an idiot and thinking that's.
Speaker 2:I am still learning and healing because a few months ago, in sitting down and praying and meditating and talking with God, I remembered that I said some pretty awful things, not to her face, but behind her, back in anger. Anger Called her names out of anger, because I was hurt by the things that she was saying about me and to me. And now I also took on the trauma of my siblings. Right, this is wrong what happens? Because I'm the youngest of eight, so I also, oh, wow, fear, trauma, bling. Right, this is what happens, because I'm the youngest of eight, so I also wow their trauma.
Speaker 2:So I had to now ask god to forgive me for all the things I said about my mom that was negative and hurtful, even though I did not say them to her, but I said them out loud to him. And in asking for forgiveness, something happened within me. There was a love that formed in my heart toward my mom that never felt before for her here on earth, never felt. And, um, I, I, in speaking about her now, today, I'm speaking about my mom from a different place.
Speaker 2:A place of healing, a place of compassion, a place of empathy and love and honor, because, even though she was abusive, I still learned a lot from her, her strength. That woman had so much strength in her faith as well right, wow, her strength as far as how she raised us was just very strong in what she believed in and in what she also imparted in us. So in that regard, I honor her for that.
Speaker 1:I think it's such a blessing when we can see not only the flaws, if you wish, the things that weren't so good in other people, but also see the positives, the strengths, the gifts that we receive from them, in spite of, in spite of, from them, in spite of, in spite of and in the midst of all of the rest of it.
Speaker 1:And too often it seems like when we especially in our culture these days we see something that we might see as negative about somebody, we just kind of write that person off and you know, then everything about the person becomes negative and you know that's not really helpful. Yes, there are some people we need to be very careful of who might be dangerous, but the majority of people know, you know, the the majority of people are, you know, kind of like the rest of us. We got some faults and we got some strengths and good parts. And to just write somebody off because we disagree with them on something or they've said something or done something that we may indeed find very hurtful, but there may still be some gifts there that they give us anyway, yes, I agree with you 100%.
Speaker 1:Is that kind of what you help the people who you work with to work through and to come to a different place in their life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes. If I hadn't gone through what I went through in my life, there was no way that I can be to the women and the men and the youth, um to them the way they need me to be to them, cause I understand pain, I see pain, I hear pain, I feel pain and I feel these people's pain and I want to be to them. That church wasn't to me, right. I want to be to them that the system was not to me, because the system also failed me when I went to seek help. I want to be that mentor that I never had.
Speaker 2:I want to be the pastor that I never had either at that time in my life. I want to be to them that friend who told me Aretha, you are someone, you are beautiful. I want to be that. So when I'm with my clients, or speaking of my clients, or trying to do what I do for them on a daily basis, or meet with other organizations and agents, when I'm speaking with individuals, especially from other organizations and agencies, and how we can partner together to help the community, if I am not hearing what I am listening for, I don't want to partner with them Because many of these organizations and churches or individuals. They're in it for the money. They're in it for their personal gain.
Speaker 1:That isn't why I'm doing it and unfortunately, as you said, some of the churches are in it for their personal gain. That isn't why I'm doing it and unfortunately, as you said, some of the churches are in it for wanting to.
Speaker 2:It's very unfortunate. So if I am not, I'm listening keenly on what they're saying, and if I'm not hearing love, then no, I'm not, because I care about these people. I care about the women who are incarcerated. I care about them when they come home and what we can do for them, how we can help them to not go back in prison. What can we do for them?
Speaker 2:I care about the women who are going through transitions. I care about the women of domestic violence, because I come from a home of domestic violence. I care about the young people. I want to hear from them how we can help them. How can we as leaders, as adults, as elders, as the church, as the community partner and help them? What can we do to make it just a little easier on you and what you're going through?
Speaker 1:Excuse me, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask is there any one major theme that you keep hearing over and over from these people of what they need and what they are really hungry for trust?
Speaker 2:trust, trust, because if they can't trust you, then they're not coming to you, they're not going to open up to you. They need trust and stability. Not only the youth, but even the older people, the young men, the women. They need trust. How do I know you're going to be there for me? So they need to see consistency from us.
Speaker 1:Right and that, yeah, trust is built over time. It's not something that happens once or twice and yeah, that's, it's um, it's the long game, it's not a short-term thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely trust is extremely important. They know that you're showing up for them, even if one person show up for that one person. I just wrote a blog a couple of days ago. I don't know if you saw it, but I remember when I was teaching Sunday school for 10 months, I was speaking to an entire room that was empty, empty chairs for 10 months straight. But I kept going and I kept going and I kept going. And I do believe, looking back on it now, that was a test that God used me to see how faithful are you in this.
Speaker 2:And one point I got frustrated with the people because I'm thinking they know Sunday school starts at 10 o'clock and ends at 11. But they will just stroll in there five minutes to 11 and they want to drag it out and I'm like, no, we can't do this. It's from 10 to 11. I'm wrapping up and I would be talking to empty chairs until one day. I sat down. I said God, do you mean to tell me that I'm going to be here talking to these empty chairs week after week after week?
Speaker 2:And one lady she was. She knocked on the door and she's peeking through the windows. And she knocked on the door. I told her to come in. But she came in to see one of the other elders and I told her I wasn't there yet. So, as she was walking away, she turned around and she looked at me and she said minister, minister, the lord said to tell you you're not here alone. All of these chairs are filled with angels. You're teaching the angel. And I sat there in awe. In awe, right. So yeah, no matter what will show up, even if it's for one person, because we can be the answer to someone's prayer wow, yeah, and one person is just as valuable as 50 or 100.
Speaker 1:You know, absolutely. Each one scripture talks about how god loves even one sparrow or crow or whatever the creature is, one ant. You know the little whatever I mean. We're far more precious to God than that, and each person is, and we so easily forget that. We so easily forget that. So how can people get in touch with you, aretha?
Speaker 2:on my website www n, as in nancy, b as in boy, lifeorg. That's www nnblifeorg.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So I know that I mean I feel like this conversation could go on a lot, lot longer and hopefully we'll do a part two at some point and where else this will go. But just so much, thank you for being here and sharing your story and you know it's a reminder to all of us about the value of every single person. We cannot write anybody off.
Speaker 1:You know, no matter what they may have done in the past, the past is not the present and it's not the future, and each and every one of us is a gift from God, and there's love and grace there from God for everyone, and we are called to be the agents of that. Many times, sometimes in places and ways that we don't really realize, and you know your experiences of painful past. You have turned that into a gift that you use to bring love and grace to others, and that is truly a blessing.
Speaker 2:So thank you thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, pastor, I appreciate you're very, very welcome and, um, I invite everybody to come back for another episode of the Tilted Halo. But most of all, follow and see what Aretha is doing and see how you can be maybe even a little part of what she's doing, or at least take some of the lessons from what she does into your life. So until next time, as my voice gets all froggy right here, I'll go speak. Some blessings to each and every one of you. Bye, bye-bye. You have been listening to Tilted Halo with me, kathleen Panning. What did you think about this episode? I'd really like to hear from you. Leave me some comments, be sure to like, subscribe and share this episode and catch another upcoming episode. For more conversation on ministry, life, mindset and a whole lot more. Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've got a resource guide and other resources waiting for you, and be sure to say hi to me, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn. See you on the next episode.