The Tilted Halo
The Tilted Halo podcast has a refreshing and honest perspective on the challenges pastors face in their ministry and those involved in ministry as a whole. Hosted by Pastor Kathleen Panning, who has seen it all, this edgy show explores the idea that we all have a "tilted halo" - a recognition that we are not perfect and all make mistakes.
Through personal experiences, interviews with fellow pastors, leaders, and insights from scripture, this show offers advice and encouragement for those struggling with the weight of their imperfections. From burnout and rude awakenings to personal failures and shortcomings, The Tilted Halo provides a safe space for pastors to share their struggles and find support from a community of like-minded souls around the globe.
With a focus on authenticity, vulnerability, and humanity at large, this podcast challenges the notion that pastors must have it all together and invites listeners to embrace their humanity and lean into the grace of God. Whether you are a pastor or someone looking for a fresh perspective on life's challenges, The Tilted Halo is a must-listen in the search for hope, healing, and a renewed sense of purpose.
The Tilted Halo
EP 54: Women, Faith, and Breaking Chains
Deedra Mager and Megan Hall bring 40 years of combined ministry experience to this powerful conversation about inner healing, authentic leadership, and the freedom that comes through vulnerability. As directors of Dauntless Grace, they've made it their mission to help women connect with meaningful stories—including their own.
What exactly is "Dauntless Grace"? It's the courage to step into an authentic relationship by removing the layers of self-protection we've accumulated throughout life. Our conversation explores how we naturally develop coping mechanisms during childhood to protect ourselves from pain, rejection, and disconnection. While necessary for survival, these same mechanisms often keep us trapped in cycles that prevent true connection with ourselves, others, and God.
The most fascinating insight might be how fear functions in our lives. Fear itself isn't negative—it's designed to protect us—but unchecked fear disconnects us from ourselves and others. Deidre and Megan share practical approaches to getting curious about our fears rather than being controlled by them, a skill that transforms not just personal relationships but communities.
We dive deep into their work with human trafficking survivors through Eden's Glory, a two-year residential program. You'll be shocked to learn that 93% of trafficking victims in the US are American citizens, typically exploited by people they already know—not strangers in foreign countries as movies often portray. Their comprehensive approach to healing addresses physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual needs, embodying their core belief that "freed people free people."
Whether in formal ministry or seeking more authentic relationships, this conversation offers practical wisdom for your journey. The path to meaningful leadership begins with inner healing, and that journey starts with dauntless grace—the courage to be seen, known, and loved for who you truly are.
Welcome to the Tilted Halo. This is a new podcast and it's for anybody who's a woman in ministry. You might be a pastor like myself, a bishop, a priest, a rabbi, music minister, elder children's minister whatever your title is, you're absolutely in the right place, especially if you're someone who loves your ministry and you're doing it well and you're feeling pressure to sometimes be perfect and deep down inside, you know you're not, and how in the world to deal with that? And men, you're absolutely welcome here too, because this is about ministry and the same thing can happen to you. So you're all in the right place. Let's get started with the show. Welcome to another episode of the Tilted Halo. I'm your host, pastor Kathleen Panning, and today it's my great honor to have with me two guests. This is the first time doing this with two guests.
Speaker 1:Deidre Magher and Megan Hall are the directors of Dauntless Grace. Together, they have over 40 years of experience in working with women, children and young adults in various forms of church and school ministries. Deidre has led the dance, drama and worship departments in her home church and now serves as the program director in a residential home for survivors of trafficking, and Megan spent a decade in youth ministry and education and now works in donor development. The two women run a nonprofit to help connect women to a meaningful story through retreats, workshops and their podcast called the Dauntless Grace Exchange. So, deidre and Megan, welcome to the Tilted Halo, Thank you. I met you, deidre, through LinkedIn, which is an interesting place for me to meet new people, and I thoroughly enjoy doing that, and we had a really wonderful conversation and you shared some of your story, so would the two of you please share this? Each of you share a little bit of your own story and how you came to where you are right now, and so I'm just going to flip a coin and, deidre, you can start.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, thank you for having us.
Speaker 2:We are so excited to have this conversation.
Speaker 2:And just, I guess I started as a very young believer because my parents started a church when I was three years old, so I just grew up in church culture, grew up serving in the church.
Speaker 2:As my bio said, I kind of did a lot of different things youth leader, worship team leader, worked in the office, worked in our Christian school for a time, and throughout those seasons the Lord was drawing me into a closer and closer relationship with him. But one of the things that really impacted my life was when we begin to get some Christian counseling tools, and so that began to put me on a quest for more internal healing so that I could be more integrated in my approach to how I served others and served the Lord. Over time, my husband and I have been married I think 26 years now. We have five children, done a lot of learning about how to shepherd souls of my own children. We have an adopted child, a foster child, so just learned a lot about trauma personally and how to understand why we do the things we do and how our lived experience shapes who we are today.
Speaker 1:So, megan, how about sharing some of your story?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I grew up in the church not quite to the extent that Deidre did, but very involved in my youth group in high school, became a youth leader myself once I was in college, did youth ministry for about 10 years post high school and began working as a teacher. I taught in both public schools and then at private schools, and that's actually where Deidre and I met was. I began working as a middle school and high school teacher at the school that her parents had started and where she was an administrator. So that's where our paths intersected.
Speaker 2:And I was in my early, well mid-20s, mid to late 20s at that point and I was really searching for some inner healing tools myself. I knew that things couldn't keep going the way they were going. I was married, I had a small child at the time, now I have two children and I just knew there was something I was missing. I knew Jesus, I was in ministry, totally immersed, and yet something didn't feel quite right, and so I found out that Deidre had encountered some of these tools herself, these Christian counseling tools, and I asked her if we could begin meeting about them, and that started a friendship that has spanned 13 years now, and we've journeyed together through these tools. We've discovered new tools together, like the Enneagram, internal family systems, therapy, and it's what led us into starting this ministry in order to impart the tools and the lessons that we've learned so that others can reach that same level of healing and freedom that we've tasted. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1:That's really fantastic. So, as women with faith and in faith, this podcast is for women of faith and leadership. How do you incorporate each of you, your faith, into your leadership, and what does that mean to you for your leadership that you have this faith?
Speaker 2:Jesus said you know, the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul and strength, and the second is, like into it, to love others.
Speaker 2:And what we've come to find is we tend to, just as natural people, love others through our defense mechanisms. We're trying to do our best to love others well, but we have learned a lot of layers of self-protection growing up, because the world isn't a perfect place and whether we've endured severe trauma or we've had fairly decent parents, we all have some levels of dysfunction in the way that we relate to others. And, again, not all levels are equal, but they all still form from self-protection. And so I think we really don't know how to love others well until we learn what it means to experience the love of God for ourselves and the internal transformation that can happen where we can love all the parts of ourselves. So we have choice, we have agency around how we move into the world in love and we're responding to their needs and we are moving with compassion toward them instead of a self-protective posture to save our own lives first, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great perspective, especially the idea that we can choose, which is one thing. That a great thing that I learned along the way as well that, no matter what, we have choices as to how we respond, and that frees us to be able to decide. You know, maybe some of the ways we've responded in the past aren't so great, Maybe they don't get us what we really want and they're not really as helpful as we thought they might be. So that's a beautiful thing to think about. Megan, what about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's exactly our stance on it.
Speaker 2:I look back at all of the years that I worked with teens in youth ministry and as a school teacher and you know, I think I did the best that I could with what I knew.
Speaker 2:But sometimes those choices don't really come until you have a certain level of awareness about what you're already doing. It doesn't feel like choice until you understand what it is that you're doing and that there's another choice. And so sometimes I wish I could go back to those years of impacting teenagers and do it better, do it differently, and not be so worried about how I was coming across or what I needed or what I was thinking about, but really, really how to pour myself out for others in their journey. And so, again, we do the best we can with what we know, but that's why we think it's so important to learn and to grow and to really look internally. You know, in the Psalms it says search me and know me, and if that isn't our constant cry throughout our life, then I think we're always missing the next level of healing that the Lord has for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, deidre, you mentioned that what Jesus called the second great commandment love your neighbor, as yourself and many people I have found have a lot of trouble really loving themselves. And I mean your podcast is called and you're talking about being dauntless grace and to be able to realize that at any given moment we are doing the best we can with the beliefs and that we have at that moment and sometimes they're not the greatest set of beliefs that we're working with, um but to then like for you yeah, you did the best you could with what you knew back then and to trusting God to take even that sometimes we call them crumbs and make something beautiful and let that be nourishing to someone, because it's it will help someone with where they are and to trust that, but to still want to grow and learn more.
Speaker 2:You mentioned the word dauntless, and part of the reason we chose that is because it is a little scary to step into a new story and to receive love in a way.
Speaker 2:That is, you know, adam and Eve, when they sent in the garden they cloaked up, they covered up really quickly, and that is our natural reaction, because of shame, because we, through whatever our parents, fall the world's, fall all of the things right.
Speaker 2:It's a broken world we live in, we, just we.
Speaker 2:We hold these beliefs about ourselves, like you said, that are not always true and pure and right, but they're the stories we had to tell ourselves to figure out how to survive childhood in a lot of ways, and so we wear a lot of big leaves for lack of a better analogy here that cover our shame, you know. And so how do we fully receive the grace and love that God has for us? It's scary because we have to be seen and we have to be known and we have to be willing to do that work, to look at ourselves too. And so we do say it takes a dauntless grace, it takes a it's a scary step into something that mean revealing myself somewhere, not to the whole world. We don't have to go, you know, everywhere, completely uncovered, but with the lord, with ourselves and maybe with a few trusted people in our community, where we can really begin to bear our soul and understand that we were wired for love. We were wired for true, authentic connection, without all of these layers between us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that, realizing that you know we're wired to survive, yes, but we're also wired for community, because part of Genesis tells us you know that it's not. We are not designed to be solo people out there, solo creatures. I mean, some of us are more comfortable with time alone than others, but still, none of us works well in this life just totally on our own. We're not. We live in a country where it's this, still this pioneer spirit of me, myself and I, I can do this, and as we grow up, it's me, me, me, me as little kids at times, and we need to get that independence. Yes, but there's a drawback to that as well.
Speaker 2:So, Megan, yeah, yeah, if you go to our website, we actually we created a video several years ago that tries to explain the message of what we mean by dauntless grace, and it's it's. It's the story of a woman who just repeats the same cycle over and over in her life Because, like Deidre said, we learn coping mechanisms, we learn how to survive when we're little, and we need those things because rejection is painful and disconnection is painful and all of the things that we experience are painful, and so we learn how to wire up and so that we don't experience pain. That's a natural defense that we're given and that is good and right, and yet we're little, so we don't always know cognitively how to use it for our best interest, just to get to the next day. And so, at some point in our life, those coping mechanisms keep us repeating the same cycles and we keep getting to the end of it going.
Speaker 2:Why am I still getting here? Why am I still feeling disconnected? Why do I feel rejected all the time? Why do I always feel like an imposter, whatever that is for somebody? But the truth is where we need the connection, we need belonging, we need security, we need all of these things that God put in us as holy and good and right desires, but when we're just trying to get them ourselves, we keep cycling back through this, and so that's the dauntless grace to step into. What does it look like, then, to get out of the self-sabotaging story and really move into the one that the Lord has for us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's two levels to this, as I'm thinking, you know. There's the level for ourselves and how to grow as individuals, but then there's also how do we embrace others in a bigger, wider community? And I'm just reading part of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, the second chapter, where he talks about the unity that we get in Christ and transcending the division that Jewish people knew between circumcised and uncircumcised, the things that was a dividing wall for Jewish people the dietary laws and things like that that separated them from others and that was good for their identity as a Jewish person but it also kept people more than at arm's distance and that in Christ that breaks down and we become neither Jew nor Greek, slave, nor free male nor female. You know all of those different things and yet as a society we have such a terribly difficult time with that. And how does Dauntless Grace touch on any of that in what you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, I'm going to say one, though like well, just that, if our injury as an individual and all these coping skills that we get come from being in relationship, healing is only going to come in relationships. So community is so important, because it's where we're going to reverse some of these cycles and where we're going to sense that I can be authentically me and not feel rejection or whatever those stories are that we need to repair. But I'll let you go, megan. I'm thinking you're maybe going to talk about internal family systems and getting curious, but I am.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of words about this disconnect that I mean, like you said yeah, it's in the early church and it can be extrapolated into today's society, for sure and that is that fear disconnects us. It disconnects us within ourselves, it disconnects us from other people. Fear but fear was wired to keep us safe, like fear is a neutral emotion and if we didn't have fear, we would have been eaten alive by animals, you know. So we need fear and also we need to recognize that at some point it doesn't serve us the way we think it serves us, because it disconnects us. And so that's where we really look at internal family systems, which is a therapy model that is about how we're all made up of all of these parts, and so we can recognize that fear is a part of us and we can thank it for doing its job of protecting us.
Speaker 2:But we can also get curious and think am I safe? Am I really in danger here? What are you scared of? Is it a fear that is logical? Is it a fear because you're in imminent danger? Is it a fear because you've experienced rejection before? Are you layered up? Are you self-protecting? And so getting curious about that fear is what's going to be able to let it kind of rest and settle a little bit, because fear is the thing that keeps us apart from others and it's the thing that is dividing our whole country into two camps or, you know, depending on the issue, maybe more camps, but it's because we're not curious about the other person's side. We're not curious. What are they afraid of? I can find, maybe, what I'm afraid of. What are afraid of? Is it something that I can speak to? Is it something that I can move toward them in?
Speaker 1:so it's the stuff that we're doing internally needs to be the stuff that we're doing externally as well yeah, yeah, that's so true, and I think that, as women of faith and leadership in this time and day and age, that message can bring healing and it can bring some of the unity that we talk about, that we want, but, on the other hand, that there are people who use fear to divide and conquer and as a tool for power, whatever, and so to be able to see that and to recognize what's at play when we have those fears, are they really rational? What is it that the people were told to be afraid of? What can they really do to us? You know what is really going on here. So that might be a role that we don't always embrace as quickly and easily and as fully as maybe we are called to do at times.
Speaker 2:I think part of loving others is that idea that unity doesn't mean we have to believe the same thing, but it means I can stand arm in arm with you in our humanity and understand that you're coming from a different place than I'm coming from and have some compassion on that position, even if we don't come to the same conclusion about how to move forward in it. Right, and so sometimes maybe in a church, we just divide just the church alone. Let's take the rest of the country out of it. How many denominational splits do we have within even a denomination? Not so much of all the denominations, right? We see that, that we cannot be if we're not, you know, aligned on everything, that we're not in unity. And I just feel like that's also something that we could redefine a bit that we can be one body and have different roles and different functions, and that means we're going to move through the world differently and that's another image that the apostle paul uses.
Speaker 1:you know the the different parts of the human body, that we are different, we have different gifts and we have different things to bring to the table, but there is a unity even amongst the differences. And to be able to recognize that and to celebrate that the different perspectives, to celebrate that the different perspectives, and I think it's just so important.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't want to get into a political conversation at all, but to think that I mean living in community is political regardless, right, I mean, that's what politics is. It's just living in community with other people. Same thing in churches, exactly. So I think it is really important to know and to recognize are the voices that we're listening to intentionally stirring fear for control and power, or are they stir, are they trying to stir unity? And so, whether that's social media people that we follow, whether that's politicians, whether that's news media and, honestly, both sides know how to manipulate news fear. So it's not even this side or this side, it's. Who are the people whose voices we're letting into our sphere, and is it stirring fear or is it stirring unity?
Speaker 1:right, right, I I want to get to a little bit, just kind of change the subject a bit. But um, deidre you work with, especially now in your nonprofit, for both of you is working with women who have been involved in trafficking and that give us some idea for listeners about what that's all about. I mean, I think everybody knows what trafficking is, but how big of a problem is this and what happens? How does a woman get sucked into that? What are some of the issues they face and how you help them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, there's a lot of statistics that I don't necessarily have off the top of my head, but it is a huge problem in the United States and with the most recent study just from this last year, it was the first time they'd done a survey since COVID-19. So it's really recent data, megan. Do you remember was it only like 3% of the problem was from non-American 7%? So we know that trafficking goes really unreported. Uh, for several reasons. One, because they're still involved in it. Two, because even after they leave it they may not recognize what it is for themselves. I know deidre's encountered women who have even come to the home to as survivors, who are like, oh, I was being trafficked, like it's kind of a new awareness for them. They don't even know it. So the number of actual reported cases is fairly low because it just goes unreported. But we know that 93 percent of all cases in the US last year were American citizens. They were being trafficked across the border or anything like that happening in our communities and I think that will be shocking.
Speaker 2:I guess we go ahead, we see movies like Taken or like Sound of Freedom and while those stories can be true, they were based on true stories. You know, things do happen where people are taken into it. More often than not, what we are seeing in the work we're doing, and what most of the people on the front line are encountering is people who were already at risk because of familial abuse, incest and molestation, sexual abuse as minors, and very often it's an intimate partner or even a family member who who begins this for someone, and so that's why it's hard to record, because they it would be one thing if you were just in a really great home and you were just stolen away and then someone rescued you and and that's a really like glamorized, and that glamorized that's a terrible word, but that's a. That's a way that we think about it when we think about being trafficked, and that's an easy one to label, but often what we're seeing is people don't even understand that their body, because it's been commodified for so much of their life, is being used for sale, for exchange of money, drugs, labor, housing, whatever it is, and so, um, we just have really the law enforcement has even really broadened the definition of this, and so, basically, when it comes down to it though, it is that, whether it's labor or sex trafficking or anything in that way, it's that you are not being paid, you are being traded for something and it's forced.
Speaker 2:There's coercion involved and fraud, and so people are being promised something but they're not being given that or they don't have agency to leave when they want to leave. There's often very hand in hand with physical abuse that keeps someone scared to leave, or threats of violence against their family or other things. Maybe they're holding all their documentation. So even if they could run, then they don't have what they need. You know, to start a new life. Just so many facets of it that make it a huge problem to tackle for sure.
Speaker 1:Wow, go ahead, megan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know when it's happening with minors. It's often they're sleeping in their own beds that night. They're going home at night because they're not like Deidre said, they're not being stolen. They're being trafficked by a mom, a neighbor, maybe an intimate partner, and so people around them don't recognize the signs either, because they're not necessarily runaways. They're sleeping in their own beds every single night. They're coming back home and yet their bodies are being used for that.
Speaker 1:How much secrecy is involved with this, because I know often when there's sexual abuse within a home incest and things like that there's a lot of secrecy that goes with that. Is that true also with trafficking when it's not sexual and even when it is?
Speaker 2:I imagine, yes, there's a lot of control by the trafficker to isolate people so that they can't talk right To hold, like I said, threats of violence over them, can't talk right to hold, like I said, threats of violence over them to punish them in ways that are very inhumane, to keep them from speaking or sharing. And there's a lot of you know we have. We talk a lot with our residents about trauma bonds. Sometimes it does start with a person who's promising you something and there can be kind of this love bombing stage where you get all these gifts and money and a promise of this life and it sucks you into a dysfunctional cycle, the same that we would see an intimate partner violence.
Speaker 2:You know why do people stay? It's because there are that person is not always evil and there are some moments of true what feels like love and what feels like safety. But it goes through cycles where the violence is encoded in that and it can really keep people stuck because they really think maybe there's something I can do to change this, maybe there's something I'm doing wrong that's making this, you know, punishment for me or making them get angry at me. Maybe if I could just fill in the blank, then this situation would change. And it's important to note that a lot of times drugs and alcohol are involved, because people want to numb their pain or control someone else, and that can also really strip agency from someone. So that's a big part of the story too in a lot of these cases.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's what I was going to say. So yeah, we've heard stories about women who have been in the commercial sex industry, and so when you think about that sometimes you think, oh well, women are choosing to be part of that industry. Then they're grown up, they know what they're getting into, they're choosing to be part of that. And yet we've heard the stories that they were being, their finances were being withheld or they were addicted and being fed drugs and so they didn't have the wherewithal to know what was happening to them, or lots of reasons. They think there's no other option. So that that line between agency and coercion is very, very, very, very thin in the commercial sex industry. And so this is kind of a wild example.
Speaker 2:But my daughter and I went to see Les Miserables a few weeks ago and there's that whole scene at the beginning with Fantine, I believe, and the prostitution. And what happened is she is violated outside, she loses her job, she has a small child to take care of, and so she sees no other option but to become a prostitute. And so even that culture of that that I was like that's trafficking to me, like because there's not really a choice there, there's zero option when there's no finances, when you've already been violated and you think there's nothing left to lose, and so just even that picture of it, I think, should repaint how we think of the commercial sex industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so interesting. So when someone comes to you from a situation of being trafficked, do they come to you? Do you kind of find them? How does that happen? Do you kind of find them how?
Speaker 2:does that happen? Yeah well, we are part of kind of a big picture solution. We do a lot of education on the front end for minors and for our communities, but then we are a two-year residential program, so we're not front lines on the rescuing end of it. There's other organizations that are more of the like a 30 day like. They're right there where someone can find them, get into their home and get triaged until they can find a long-term placement. So we are the long-term placement in the organization that we work for, which we haven't said the name, but it's Eden's Glory, and I know if we're going to promote it we might as well, because we love to talk about the work that they're doing and we're just so privileged to be part of their ministry.
Speaker 2:That was founded about 10 years ago, I believe. So it's been an inpatient, I'm sorry, a residential program. That's two years for survivors that are female and adult. But we have a minor program that offers free counseling to minors who have been trafficked or are at risk. Maybe they're in foster care and have had sexual abuse. So we are really coming around those families and resourcing them and they go into schools and do trainings in hospitals and law enforcement, all of these places where people need to know what they're looking for and how to spot these signs and how to intervene sooner. But yeah, when people come to our residential program, they're usually coming from some other frontline worker that has brought them in, and then we get resourced from all over the country. A lot of times people need to leave the area that they were in anyway, so it's good if they can move out of state to find a long-term solution.
Speaker 1:Wow. From what I do know about the issue which is pretty small at this point in time, but I know that it's a bigger concern than most people think I've been in airport in the last year or two and in women's restrooms there's signs in every stall. You know if someone is forcing you, here's a phone number to call and things like that. So there are ways to help women find another choice and things like that. So, as some of the frontline ones and I'm glad to know that there are more, or at least a few long-term ones, because just getting out of the circumstance isn't, I mean there's a lot of healing that needs to take place isn't.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a lot of healing that needs to take place If we don't attend to their long-term healing and restoration and just getting them the life skills they need to be able to live independently. You know, there's just so many things, both from a physical we're giving them lots of medical care that they might need and the life skills portion and the spiritual healing and the mental and emotional health healing and the trauma therapy. It's kind of a really holistic approach because it's like when someone comes out of prison, if they don't have somewhere to live, right the recindity I don't think I said that word right the rate of them going back in is higher than if they have a support system to go to. And so we're kind of we want to be that support system Right. And I was just looking at the 2023 human trafficking stats the other day and noticed that over half of like over 50% of all survivors deal with great depression and anxiety after being rescued and 12% attempt or commit suicide as a result of that anxiety and panic attack. So the longevity of life for survivors is not great, and so having homes like this where we can offer that kind of healing and you know the reason we both are so passionate about Eden's Glory not just because we work there, but we work there because we're passionate about the work that they do.
Speaker 2:Dauntless Grace and Eden's Glory have partnered together for years and years now because we both organizations believe that freed people free people. And so, on the Dauntless Grace side, when we can impart the tools for healing to women who have endured, you know, probably not surviving trafficking, but some sort of little T traumas in their lives, then the more they can pour out on other people. And so when we are doing the same thing on the Eden's Glory side and pouring into the lives of people who have endured the big T traumas, then we're setting them up to not just remain, you know, as healed individuals, but maybe then they can turn around and pour some out eventually. And so healed people, healed people, freed people, free people. And that's why we are so passionate about the work.
Speaker 1:Right. Often the biggest pains that we endure, the traumas, can really become a source of ministry and healing for somebody else, if we can get through the healing process and doing that as well. Please tell people how they can get in touch with you, where they can find the Dauntless Grace. Exchange some of those mechanics so that they can learn more if they would like to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dauntless Grace is. We're on all social media. Facebook, it's just facebookcom slash. Dauntlessgrace or dauntlessgraceorg links to our podcast. It links to our socials and it has information about who we are, what we do and how to stay connected. The Dauntless Grace Exchange is our podcast. It's available on all podcast apps so you can search that or link there from our website. And then Eden's Glory is found at edensgloryorg and again you can search that or link there from our website. And then Eden's Glory is found at edensgloryorg. And again you can find all of their socials there and any interviews they've done, fundraisers coming up, how to partner with them in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you both. So, Deidre, megan, you're doing a lot of really good things as women of faith in leadership and I really appreciate you being here to share some of your story and as a way to maybe inspire some others about ways to use your faith in healing of other people, of yourself, but also of other people and of the world at large in larger ways. And it's amazing what one person can do, how many ripples that can have out into the world. So one person touches one, who touches another, who touches another. So it can, you know. Sometimes we think, well, what can I do? I'm just one person. Well, every one of us can do something.
Speaker 1:And I go back to think you know, jesus had 12 disciples and look where Christianity is today. So you know, it's it. It starts with us, it doesn't end with us and God's grace working through us, that dauntless grace. So thank you both so very much. And for people to get in touch with me, just look at things on my website and KathleenAPanningcom and come back again for another episode of the Tilted Halo. So God's peace and blessing to both you, deidre and Megan, and to all episode, and catch another upcoming episode for more conversation on ministry, life mindset and a whole lot more. Go to wwwtiltedhalohelpcom, where I've got a resource guide and other resources waiting for you, and be sure to say hi to me, kathleen Panning, on LinkedIn. See you on the next episode.