4.10 Gay Son or Saved! Daughter

Connor and Jordan are born-again Mandy Moore fans, enjoying the ungodly mental gymnastics, moral panics, and mullets that make up Mandy Moore's best performance yet in Saved!

Transcript

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But it's about God knowing something about you. Yeah. And about love. And that's all of Mandy Moore's wheelhouse. That's what this movie's about. Yeah. Hey guys, welcome back. It's the Saved episode. Yay! We are not yet watching Sydney White. Don't worry. We have a Mandy Moore film in between. We are eventually going to have to watch Sydney White, you guys. Just deal with it. We're dealing with it. But this is Saved. Connor, what are you looking forward to less? A Mandy Moore episode or the Sydney White episode? I mean, honestly, Mandy Moore, you guys know I'm on a tough journey with her, but she's in some bangers. So I love a Mandy Moore episode. I mean, what was our last one? Chasing Liberty? I'm all about it. This one has Macaulay Culkin in it. This one has, oh God, what's her name? Jenna Malone, an absolute queen. Jenna Malone, queen. I just rewatched Donnie Darko the other day and I was like, oh, my childhood. Also, Susan Sarandon's daughter. Oh, who is that? I can't remember her name. She's stunningly beautiful. And I think she famously went on TikTok or Instagram or something and was like, I quit acting and here's why. It really sucks to be objectified and it's not fun. And I'm already... the child of the wealthy people and you frankly don't need to do it and so i don't i bet it does suck to be objectified and good on her for bringing that to our attention because i promise you in 2004 no one was thinking about it yeah exactly who the fuck else why do i feel like there's a thousand people in this movie we named them all oh my god patrick fugit duh literally my god fresh off of um either fresh off of almost famous he's got to be yeah he's a little older in this literally you're lying you are lying if you didn't say Patrick Fuggett back in the day. When you first, when this guy first hit the scene and you saw that F-U-G-I-T, you know you were saying Fuggett for sure. What a time you guys buckle up because we are in June 2004, which was like, whew, we were peaking in terms of culture. Let me just go ahead and get right into the context corner for you guys. Tell me everything. Because the biggest thing that happened this month, which is going to inform the rest of the context corner, corner is that spider-man 2 came out so all this stuff is stuff you're already gonna have i was thinking some of these things looked familiar yeah i was going through it and i was like um ken jennings starts his syndicated television game show run on the jeopardy i already knew about that and that's because it happened the same month that spider-man 2 came out um so i'm just honestly go back and listen to that episode if you're desperate to know what was happening in june 2004 but here's a Lopez and Mark Antony got married and Ken Jennings started his run on Jeopardy and that's all you need to know every single thing on these lists I'm about to run you guys through the music and the movies of the era you're gonna be like yeah banger yeah banger hit hit hit there was something in the water in the box office okay number one Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban okay arguably my favorite one Jay what's your favorite one we shan't talk too long on this because you know our bit on jk rowling but truly what's your favorite one go honestly uh i mean my favorite one is deathly hallows one but prisoner of azkaban is really up there it's a good one but also don't watch any of these movies you guys don't watch any of them and we are not advocating for watching them but i gotta be in order of the phoenix head is that crazy yeah aston answered number two chronicles of riddick i kind of remember this okay wait who's in it um i actually actually fuck with this movie hard it's Vin Diesel and it's the girl from the show Reunion that isn't Lexi from Grey's Anatomy oh yeah and oh my god I fuck with this movie hard this movie was on TNT like every single day after school it was this or it was the fifth element Jay was locked into we know drama that's why it sounds familiar to me guaranteed guaranteed I mean listen if you're not a Vin Diesel head you're not living yeah we've got the Stepford Wives a famous book whole Kidman joint Garfield the movie past Shrek 2 low-key bad people are like such Shrek heads and I'm like I probably saw each of them once maybe honestly Connor we should do a rewatch of Shrek because you are actually constantly disparaging Shrek it's so weird to make us look bad that you have no culture it is it is actually I'm like am I actively repulsed by the ogre of it all and is that in fact the point of the movie wow Connor fat phobia yeah Well, cut that part out. After Shark 2, we have The Day After Tomorrow. Banger, banger, banger. Oh, banger. We saw that. I remember we went to go see that at a drive-in in the summer. And it was a banger. I remember my, like, broken-ass teenage brain going to see that and being like, okay, but, like, low-key, if you're, like, trapped in the public library with your crush, like, low-key, low-key, low-key, like. There's so much. His crush is literally, like, bleeding to death. No, for real. he's like gonna drown in order to get to the payphone and shit and I'm like yeah but like they're building that fire up there together with all those books like I remember it so vividly yeah number four Raising Helen Raising Helen had Kate Kate Hudson in it Joan Cusack oh is she see I don't even remember it's like did she get a baby or something yeah yeah Troy is number five Brad Pitt number or not number five number eight number nine is Saved starring Mandy Moore and Jen Malone and Patrick Fugit um number 10 a little joint we know as Mean Girls can you believe Saved was on the charts at the same time as Mean Girls can you believe Spider-Man 2 came out the same month as Mean Girls yeah you're like Connor we're on Spider-Man 2 okay that just seems so much earlier um we got the Billboard Top 100 there's a lot of really good tracks we got Burn by usher when you know that it's over and this was prime usher territory prime usher country so good we got naughty girl beyonce not my favorite um track to be a naughty girl is that it is that how it goes i'm like okay it's like mid you guys know it's mid like don't even come after me um number four yeah the defining song of 2004 yeah by usher yeah absolutely and when i said it was usher country this is what i meant yeah and the second most defining song of 2004 by jordan's favorite band And Jake, guess which band I'm talking about. Dashboard Confessional. No, it's not. Dashboard Confessional starts with an H and it ends with a stank. Hoobastank.

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Yeah.

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That's a Hoobastank. A Hoobastank. And it's the reason. How does it? And this is it. Oh, yeah. And the reason is you. That's it. This is like the only Hoobastank song. That's it. Wait, can I tell you guys actually something that I've been keeping in my heart for the past two weeks, which is that I have not... not even a rewatch it's a first time ever watch of Smallville from the WB and it feels like I have found like the missing link it is it's like at both Salvatore brothers and Jensen Ackles and Evangeline Lilly who has a non-speaking part all on this show for one episode like it's Kyle from Veronica Mars is on this like Sean Ashmore for anyways wait who's Kyle from Veronica Mars um beaver his real name's kyle but then i forgot his last name so i just switched to veronica beaver cassidy casablanca's right cassidy casablanca it's everybody it's everybody on the planet it's kyle something angry um he was in a movie called dinner in america that i fucking adored on anyways back to smallville sorry yes the point is the entire soundtrack is like nickelback huba stank maroon five like it's It is. It's the missing link, you guys. And if you want to know more about it, let me know because I'm actually dying to go deeper into it. Should we do it on Second Thoughts? Should we do some Second Thoughts on Smallville? Literally, don't even give me the flag because I'll be off like a gem. Pass her the mic. I'll talk all day. Pass her the mic. Speaking of Maroon 5, we've got literally a banger for generations. If they're like, what's one song that captures the last hundred years? Like if they're literally like, what was the state of pop? for the last 25 I swear to god no it's this love has taken its toll on me she will be loved is fine it's whatever this was their OG and when I tell you I would climb into the shower we had a little shower radio that hung on the you've already told this story on the spider-man oh my god and I swear to god this love was on every single day when I took a shower every day this song and the one tree hill theme song what was that fucking mm-hmm okay we can't do it again we can't do it all again those two songs alone are two pieces in a patchwork puzzle of what it sounded like to be in 2004 this love maroon 5 is on that list of like songs that truly have defined the last hundred years so is this song it's confessions part two by usher oh my usher country that's the third like literally if you're keeping track that's three in the top 10 for real but it's confessions is um just when i thought i said all i can say my chick on the side said she got one on the way these are my confessions you missed a whole part you skipped literally that's not how i go i followed how my heart went connor and that's what i sure want that's true that's fine and when you play that back and layer them over together they're audience will know who's right um we got if i ain't got you by alicia keys but i ain't got you baby i ain't got you alicia keys is like prime driving in your car late at night screaming dude this is the only alicia keys song i know facts got our empire state of mind the national anthem of new york i can't i don't know it i'm from la yes you are you kidding sing it these streets will inspire you okay okay I'm from New York. True, true, true, true, true. You passed. Barely. Lastly, we've got Roses by Outkast. Oh, I think it's Caroline. Caroline takes a golden calculator.

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I

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mean, honey, honey, honey, honey, honey, killers, killers on the list. Let's talk about Saved. We've set the scene. Mandy Moore's blonde again, sort of. It's not her real hair in this movie, we think. They needed her to be like classic Christian mean girl honestly what's funny is I feel like she's gonna be giving Amanda Bynes from Easy A in this she's gonna be like the Christian that is like a little no that's completely her role completely completely her role and in fact excellent little connecting thread there because those two they're coming from the same family tree for sure I can't wait till we get to Easy A honestly like I'm excited to hang out with Jenna Malone I feel like she's such an icon and she's gonna be so good in this and she's playing her like classic Jenna Malone role which is like um indie girl that's like a little too cool for the situation she's found herself in yeah I mean the whole structure like the whole device narrative device of this movie it like centers around those like gay conversion camps of the early aughts so I think that is going to be like wildly interesting because I think as a society we realize how like barbaric and insane those are yeah for sure but it is like the main like driving force of the story that her boyfriend goes away to one of them and, like, I think she, like, rescues him or they bust him out or something. I don't know. Isn't she pregnant? Yeah, she's pregnant. She gets pregnant trying to gay conversion therapy her boyfriend. Ruh-roh, girls. Ruh-roh. Yeah, like, ruh-roh, honey. Turn back. Let Jesus take the wheel on that one. But also, there's, like, a secondary plot and I want to say Macaulay Culkin... is Mandy Moore's brother in this movie

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oh

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and he's in a wheelchair yeah so people are like you're a fake because it's 2004 and I bet it's wild the shit that they say in this movie I cannot wait actually but he gets like the hot Susan Sarandon's hot daughter who's like if I remember correctly has Susan Sarandon's famously banging bod that shit is genetic that shit is hereditary okay okay And she has like a spiky little Choppy bob I want to say Or like almost a pixie So that's how you know she like smokes cigarettes And she like drives an old car I think she teaches him how to drive her car She like installs something so that he can I remember being very romantic I don't know I'm sure it will be And Mandy Moore for sure is going to get what's coming to her I think I understand why she kept getting cast Like she This is Christian Lana from Princess Diaries Yeah 100% I mean she's so pretty that it's like of course she's gonna be the mean girl yeah I genuinely do think that's what it is Mandy Moore and teen pregnancy storylines let's talk about it what's another one how to deal her best friend's pregnant oh my god you're so right you're so I remember one like joke from this movie that was like you're not a virgin if you like have done it in the done butt stuff or something and I remember being a kid and being like I don't understand what they're talking about like I know they're talking about something where it's like you you've saved your virginity by using the loophole or something there was some joke where I was like man when I get older and know what they mean I bet I'll fucking love that joke I'll be yucking it up I've just mostly I feel like the trend that I'm noticing is that all these Mandy Moore movies are like edgier than any single Amanda Bynes movie I've ever seen oh for sure all are more like reality bites themed than like I mean that's a stretch reality but it's just such a cool movie but you know what I mean it's like it's they're all like trying to be like we're real this is what real teens are like as opposed to the like she's the man like Disney-fied version of being a teen yeah that's so true I think we're only gonna get that for Amanda Bynes with Easy A yeah but it's like even that isn't great you know what I mean even Easy A is like Easy A I think is as cutting edge as Saved is gonna be I don't think Saved is that indie or and I don't think it's that edgy like we're gonna see We'll see. We'll see what like cool or edgy or like with it or whatever. The thing that I remember about Easy A is it is the last role of Lorraine from Lizzie McGuire. She was like a meth addict or something. She has like one line in Easy A and everyone's like Miranda from Lizzie McGuire. Miranda? Miranda's in this? Miranda? This isn't the Easy A episode. Looky, looky. Saved, saved, saved. I know there's bullying that's going to go down. I know she tries to hide her pregnancy in a giant sweatshirt. I know Patrick Fuggins falls in love with her her boyfriend's gay yeah that's like her beginning boyfriend and then Patrick Fugit is her boyfriend upgrade upgrade I think the gay boyfriend is like a character in the movie though like we like him good can't wait honestly the only thing I really remember about watching this movie as a kid is that like I wasn't allowed to watch it so I was watching it like kind of from outside the room like in passing as I totally there's so much shit like that where I'm like I remember seeing like the first fourth of it over someone's shoulder before I got that yeah no fully like the way I watched 13 from the other side on the other side of the wall in the living room while you guys were watching it and I was just listening in the way that I watched the entire first season of the OC when I was that way for real um I think that's all I got that's like all I remember anything else nope that's it I'm excited to watch it me too let's get into it bye music okay so feeling saved i feel like we have you been saved we opened a walk to remember almost in an identical way i feel like where i was like so were you saved or with some kind of movie have you let jesus christ the lord into your heart really no is the truth really really no because if you guys have been following along you know we got a lot of heat for the christian hate and watch remember do not expect anything different for this episode i'm so sorry we'll try and keep it light and cute and cheeky but i was like there's just too it's too rich there's too much to unpack there's too much to say about them and they are the butt of the joke in this movie in a way that they were not in A Walk to Remember in A Walk to Remember we're serious we're locked in we're praying to God yeah like in A Walk to Remember there's definitely like good people and bad people and the people who believe in God are the good people and the people who don't believe in God are the bad people yeah in this movie there's still good and bad people but everyone believes in God yeah and I was actually surprised even I kept waiting for like the reveal that someone was like this is all bullshit like Patrick Fugit die hardcore no literally I actually was like wait he isn't gonna be like by the way this is all like I thought the journey of saved was realizing it's all kind of bullshit and it's not worth it and it isn't no I was shocked too it's actually very wholesome and still religious at the end it was so crazy to me there's even a moment at the end like Christian people are still the butt of the joke but it's like at the end of the day how could you not believe in God and it's like oh in fact you just maybe sit through two hours of reasons why it's kind of bogus to belong to that club it's so like youth groupie because it's like it's so Christian people are the Christian people are the butt of the joke when they don't understand the Lord's word really we all need to be working harder to understand the Lord's word and you're like okay they've just they've been they've misinterpreted it so here's the right interpretation yeah um I here's my other theory top line thought the character of Hilary Faye excellently executed by Mandy Moore I think this is her best work yet I know you guys are shocked you're on the ground this is an a combination of her character from Princess Diaries and her character from A Walk to Remember. If Lana from Princess Diaries and Jamie from A Walk to Remember, like, morphed together, this is, it's Hilary Finn. Yeah, it's closer than you think, you guys. The Venn diagram is wider than you think. Seriously, like, totally mean, totally selfish, totally self-righteous. Totally image-obsessed. Yeah. Like, a liar. Yeah. And then, like, so, so judgmentally Christian. Mm-hmm. except the thing with Hilary Faye is like no they never mention it of course it's a movie about real people oh yeah the princess of Genovia yeah I mean literally like it's about like normal people you know what I mean like yeah Julie Andrews yeah um so that was like wild to me that she was able to be like I've been here before I can draw on my past experiences actress yeah she's an actress we will be next up next on the agenda discussing The hair. The hair, yeah. The extensions. She's actually maybe cursed with extensions. And she's making it work almost in that– here's what was my thought about it. A, like, weird homeschooled Christian kid would have bad hair. And they all did. And they all did have terrible hair. Shocking, shocking, shocking. That was, like, a part of it. Everyone looked crazy. So, so bad. And there was also, like, a subtle thing that they weren't talking about that was, like, a few of them would, like, like arbitrarily turn really blonde Mary Louise Parker turns blonde in the middle of the movie and it's just not a dress and she has to wear a wig for the back half and I was like why Tia she's dying her hair all throughout the movie I guess but it's just in my mind it's just brown for half and blonde for half but like maybe it's like a bit that she's doing her hair and stuff but like did she need to dye her hair like it looked terrible yeah it looked terrible but I do think it's a bit that she's like constantly doing home makeovers because I think she's supposed to be like young and flighty and not Yeah. Like responsible. Not a very, not a very, I wasn't happy with Pastor Skip. I was not happy with Mary Louise Parker. I was like, the parents in this movie are not heroes. And then also Tia, I'm sorry, Heather Maserato or whatever. I know, Lambridge. Lambridge for sure. What's her name in Princess Diaries? Lily, Lily Moskovitz. Lily Moskovitz shows up again. She and Manny Moore are old friends, old nemesises. I know, it's true. And they do it well. She also turns blonde in the middle, but at least you're like, okay, Okay, but it's because now she's a Christian jewel or whatever, so it's like you're following. But bad hair was a running theme. And in fact, Mandy Moore was like- Fit right in. Fit right in. And like the mulletiness of it, I was like, this is how like a weird Christian kid in 2001. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, beautiful work. I'm going to have really high marks for her. She's in the movie a lot. She is. She was a much larger part of the movie than I remembered. I didn't remember that they were friends first. Yeah, me either. I didn't remember. I thought they were antagonists the whole time. Yeah. Also, Patrick Fugit, not in the movie that much. Not in the movie that much and more religious than I thought he was going to be. Yeah, so much so. So, so much so. Okay, so any other top line thoughts? The hero of the movie for me is the gay boyfriend. Oh, my God. Tears. Tears when the gay boyfriend shows back up. I can't. I don't even know. The whole thing is so sad. The whole thing is so sad. Lives ruined over this pretend cult. It's just, like, the whole thing is so sad. I don't know what else to say. It's, like, there's a big lesson to be gleaned at the end of the movie, but it's, like, these children's brains have been terrorized with, like, who they should and shouldn't be and the shame they should feel, so much so that, like, we got a teen mom on one hand, we've got, like, a self-loathing closeted kid on another hand. I mean, it's sad. I mean, even Mandy Moore is, like, driven to insanity by the desire to, like, be perfect and the like I mean it comes from within her I don't know what it is but like to self-sacrifice to like be a martyr yeah and it's like these people are being driven crazy Pastor Skip is ruining people's lives okay that is another top line thought does Pastor Skip give weird predatory vibes to you there was more than once where I was like why is he enlisting these teenage girls help why is he like talking to them like they're peers he's like his beady little eyes I was like there's something behind them I don't like I honestly thought it was like a really true to life portrayal of like a cool youth pastor. No, it completely was. That's why it was giving. Yeah, it's like, I don't know that I was worried about the young girls around him, but I was like, of course he's going to them and being like, you need to save her soul. No, I know. I think that would be too specific to say I was worried about the young girls. He had something behind the eyes that I was like, you're a creep. You're just giving weird. I think that, yeah. I really was like, this is what it's like like when the when those what was the name of that like coalition that was like would come to your high school and be like secretly Christian but they would always have like no idea pizza parties and our high school I have no idea oh yeah like write in if you guys remember the name it has some like undercover name and it's like kids after school hanging out it's like the name and then like you'll know someone in your math class and they'll be like I'm going to the kids hanging out after school club like you should come I don't have any memory okay like one time Emmanuel I was like okay fucking girl from my math class and we We went after school and he was like, here, have pizza. And it was like, tight. And it was like, we're all going to talk. We're like, we're going to play kickball. And it was like, tight. And then like halfway through, he was like, we're going to just, you know, say a prayer before we play. And I was like, I have to go. Like, I have to go. And it's always like a guy who's like, you know, in his 30s sitting around using words like fat. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like trying to use slang and being like, I'm down with the Lord. And you have to kind of be like, these donuts are laced. Like, I've got to get out. The Kool-Aid is a weird color. It reminds me of maybe one of my all-time favorite Boy Meets World lines of all time. Oh, this is a cult. Oh, this is a cult. No, literally. And they do that on purpose to, like, trap you and trick you. Yeah, because it is literally a cult. Comment on this episode the name of the clubs you guys went to that you didn't realize were secretly Christian until you got there and you already had half a slice in your mouth. I'm sorry to tell you it's more than you think. Some of you got tricked. Okay, so we open up. Here's what I want to ask you. Mandy Moore getting a track on her movie, it is in her contract. Yeah, it is. It's literally got to be because the opening, I recognize immediately. A live, a track in this movie and a literal performance. There's probably even more than one track, but this is God Only Knows by the Beach Boys. And it's Mandy Moore's baby voice piping through, through the clouds. I was like, all right, here we go. She does perform a couple of times. You're not wrong. But it's also just the soundtrack. She gets to like have the soundtrack. And it's like, I love that song. It's a Beach Boys song. And it's like immediately. It's the start of Love Actually. Yeah. It's immediately made annoying. I couldn't help it. I thought she did a nice job. Honestly, she did a nice job. she doesn't always do a nice job and I was like this is she can sing that's not it's just like the song it's not the song for like baby girl pop voice I just was like damn but it's about God knowing something about you yeah about love and that's all of Mandy Moore's wheelhouse that's what this movie's about um my question to you is are all of the songs and the answer is yes on the soundtrack actual Christian rock bands and how did they agree I bet I bet I mean you could listen to them they were yeah it was but like we I I was there in the years of, what is the name of the band? Reliant K. Reliant fucking K. They snuck that one in there. The Chokehold. And everyone loved that band. Loved it. Loved it. I remember the album cover, and it was just like, oh. But also, not for nothing, you've opened my eyes about Michelle Branch. I'm sorry to tell you, it's like, I think OK Go. No. I'm sorry to tell you. No. I'm sorry to tell you. Like, double check me, but I think it's more than you think. OK Go? And it's more than you think. It's definitely... You guys, comment on this podcast every single band that we would be shocked as secretly. It's Nickelback. For sure. Well, duh. I was actually just talking about this with somebody else. My sister, my other sister. I was talking about this earlier where she was like, I was like listening to something and Christian Rock came on and the person that I was with like was just listening to it. And I was like, why are you doing this? Yeah, turn this off. And they didn't know. And I was like, living in New York has opened my eyes to the fact that people like... Being from Kentucky, it's like every other radio station other than the three that you have preset is like playing Christian rock. I can recognize it by the first chord. No, you've said this on the show before too. You said this for a walk to remember where you're like, they don't get past me. They don't get past me. People in New York are walking around completely oblivious. Like the people in New York, they're completely vulnerable to listening to Christian rock. Not us. Not us. Okay, so it starts in a Mandy track. And this is the first time I see Mary Louise Parker's name. I did not remember she was in this. And I saw that and I was like, holy shit, let's go. This is the first time I saw her. Lily Moskovitz's name I had I did not remember I didn't I didn't see her name I didn't realize till she showed up but I was like okay a lot more people than I thought were in this and they're painting a giant like billboard kind of giant wooden cutout of Jesus in front of the school and we see Macaulay Culkin it's so crazy to see Macaulay Culkin as a teenager because I feel like he exists as a little kid and then he exists as like kind of a like really I don't know how to say it politely he's turned a corner now in his marriage to Brenda Song but Homie got real wild looking real scary in his like adult life like he was definitely giving lives on the Manson farm like I can't explain it and bless him yeah so it's like to see him in that in the middle where he like took one job to be like a teen actor and it's this job was like kind of wild and his storyline with Cassandra is the best I mean he and it makes sense like he suffered a terrible accident Which is so tragic to hear. self-righteousness from taking care of him. It's completely selfish. I mean, that's obvious. I mean, throughout the movie, there are like little moments where she makes it clear that she does not want to be doing the things she's doing for him. But it's this ethos of like being Christian of like, and I'm always giving, I'm always giving. It's a performance. And that's how you know I'm a good person. Right. As opposed to like genuinely doing something out of the goodness of your heart. Yeah, exactly. So he is not a big fan of hers, but he doesn't have a like community really. So he just is like a tag along. And he points out to her from the ground that Jesus almost certainly wasn't white I love this dialogue in this movie she's like of course he is white and it's like truly I guess that's why when we get this question about like how mean we are about Christianity or like why we're allowed to make fun of Christians in a way that like you wouldn't really make fun of any other religion it's like it's because it's white people like I just don't know how to explain that it's like the way that reverse racism isn't real is the same way that I'm allowed to make fun of Christian people it's just like I just am like they're the big dogs they're the ones on top they're the oppressors of the rest of the world I'm sorry like we get to laugh at them it's our one thing we've got one thing I also just feel like you have to keep in mind like Connor and I are from Kentucky so it's like literally the people in this movie are the Christians that we're familiar with like the people that are acting this way acting like they're old ops yeah yeah yeah like that is that is the association that I have it's clear from this movie like what their what their internal working is yeah yeah the first R E T A R D word of this movie appears also in this scene. And I thought there would be a lot more, but I think it's only one of the movie. I don't think Mandy Moore can be contractually obligated to have a song in the soundtrack and someone says the R word. I was like 20 seconds in. That's got to be a new record. One of my favorite quick cut jokes comes in this intro too. It's basically a voiceover by Jenna Malone being like, this is what it's like to go to my school. My life is perfect and I have the perfect Christian boyfriend. And she's at like what looks like a football game rally. But they want you to think she's a regular high high school girl she's with her friends here she is in the stadium stands with her gloves and her signs and then they cut out and they're screaming at pregnant girls going into Planned Parenthood it was so fucking funny it's like this subversion of like we're a normal high school girl and it's like no you're like deeply well I hate to say hateful but frankly if you're standing outside of a Planned Parenthood accosting people you are hateful she says and I am a member of the Christian Jewels which is kind of like a girl gang yeah oh my god and like the the like Josie and the Pussycats hair action that's happening it's like I can't tell if they were like I mean obviously they're supposed to be like nerdy and Christian but it's like also is it supposed to be like three or four years behind like what the like hair vibe is yeah so she's hanging out with her boyfriend Dean in the pool and she's like we play this game where we tell each other secrets underwater I mean this is yeah we all play that game like I was like childhood you mean and he underwater expresses to her that he thinks he is Inexplicably, there's a carpenter in the back working in Dean's yard or something, which will become important because she freaks out and hits her head on the ladder underwater. And Dean also trips and can't get to her. So the carpenter from the background, who maybe you weren't paying attention to originally, has to jump into the water to save her. And she has a vision that it's Jesus underwater. Yeah, Jesus comes to her in her concussion. and tells her that she needs to do everything she can to save Dean. Yeah. Immortal soul. Yeah. She takes that to mean that she. Jesus tells her to fuck. Jesus is like, you get to get out of jail free for one fuck. And it's like for the greater good. Yeah. This is the first like it's such like mental gymnastics. Right. Because she's like, he's the best Christian I know. Why would God give him this? Like, why would God like test him in this way? No, she never turns against Dean. No, she doesn't. It's just so hard to understand. this mentality because it's like you are behaving in a way that is clearly malicious but you have like done backflips in your own brain to be like like he's brainwashed what has Dean done to deserve being punished by being gay you know what I mean like yeah it's just like psychosis like yeah like of course the point of the movie is that they're all incorrect and how they handle everything so Jesus tells her to fuck and this this doesn't really occur to her immediately like she knows she has to do something we see her at the gun range with Hilary Faye this really disturbed me too because of course they're all into guns that's a natural Venn diagram that overlaps you know what I mean like yeah Manny Moore says I'm saving myself for marriage and I'll use force if necessary and she's got like a big gleeful smile on her face as she's like shooting the nuts off the mannequin what disturbs me about it is that she's talking about that they have to protect themselves from forcible removal of their virginity her whole point is I'm learning how to use a gun because rapists are out there Mm-hmm. Sure, there's some argument to protect yourself, but that ultimately your value lies in your virginity and you should learn how to get a gun because if someone takes that, you have nothing is like against the mental gymnastics you're talking about with like why you have to be pro-gun, why your value lies only in your sexuality. It's like 50 things piled up on each other. And she talks about in this about how like if someone were the victim of assault, that like God would forgive them and re-virginize them again or something. Yeah. And I think it's a leap, frankly, for Jenna Malone to then go, oh, then God would like forgive me and re-virginize me. When it's like, I guess if she thinks he's like in on the mission and he's given her some directive or something. Well, it's like this is the parallel, right? Like Mandy Moore has come up with a, or has been told, you know what I mean? Over generations, they've developed a mindset where guns equal being a good Christian. And it's to cover for the fact that Mandy Moore likes to shoot guns. Yeah, I know. And it's like, Jenna Malone wants to fuck. It's like to cover for the fact that Jenna Malone wants to fuck. I do think it's important to dissect the mental gymnastics that they're doing because it's like that's the problem that they have, right? They don't want to be wrong. Jenna Malone very much wants to be right. You know what I mean? Wants to be doing good and stuff like that. And she's been twisted into a pretzel by these thought processes. Right. I mean, what also bothers me, though, is like what is even the point of this community and this club and whatever if she has no one to seek guidance from when this happens? I thought this was the whole bag with Christian people is you go and you say this is what's happening how do I navigate this what's the good way to be a Christian and she's too buried in shame for him and her to consult anyone so she comes up with this frankly terrible game plan but also that's the purpose like that's the difference between like a religion based on community and a religion based on individualist like ideals is you're supposed to consult your individual relationship with Jesus you don't need to ask other people you don't need to tell other people your shames you don't need to like use your community you just need to talk to Jesus in order to come up with the solution for yourself and then you're protected from shame you have and nobody in your community knows what's wrong with you and you've like got the right answer from your own brain and sight and like yeah yeah literally literally period um so she's like that's what we're gonna do she and Dean do it she goes over to Dean's house right as he's like looking at gay porn which I feel like was a detail they had to put in there to be like otherwise how would he ever be able to like get it up to sleep with Jen Malone she has to have come over at exactly an incidental moment where he was looking at gay porn and I was like I guess but also teenage boys like and then they do it and I don't understand I guess I get it she's like our sex ed class came too late blah blah blah like to not have a fear of teenage pregnancy in a world where like that is the only fear they pump into you your entire life is like it doesn't make sense I mean I guess That's the point. I mean, they've not spoken about it. You know what I mean? She doesn't know anything. They don't talk about it. But I'm like, that's what we're supposed to believe, that Jenna Malone doesn't know where babies come from? Like, I just was like, okay, sure. I mean, it happens all the time. Like, literally because of the shit. Specifically in these communities, it happens all the time. But also, it's like, Jenna Malone has been told that the reason having sex before marriage is bad is because it means you don't love Jesus. She hasn't been told that the reason people don't want you to have sex before marriage is because you'll get pregnant. You know what I mean? They've like, it's the mental gymnastics again. It's just NBD. Like Dean's like, all right, we did it. Thanks for trying to help. I mean, I think Dean is like, yeah, I hope this works. And Jenna Malone is like, and Jesus has like re-virginized me because I did it in his name. Yeah. She goes to school thinking she's like still a virgin. Yeah. So Hilary Faye picks her up in the van, the old handicap van for school the next day. And she, Jenna Malone has the most insane hair in the world in this clip. Like the flip up, like I, I'm going to say something Jenna Malone is very cute and she does a good like indie girl or whatever standing next to Mandy Moore like they're not cut from the same cloth in terms of like 2001 teen beauty queen you know what I mean yeah so then to put the hair on her is like what statement are we trying to make like what what are we doing to her the same thing with Heather Maserato it's like they aren't like not cute girls and yet we must ab Absolutely squash any like appealingness out of them with this like insane hair. I don't know. I just didn't seem nice. It didn't seem fair. It didn't seem right. This is the first place where I really noticed Mandy Moore's extensions. And she does have her How to Deal haircut. That's what it is. It's still short from How to Deal. They have dyed it though. I thought it was going to be a wig and it's not. They have dyed it. She's picking everybody up in her handicap van with her brother. She's picking up all the Christian jewels for school. She's gotten everybody little Christian jewel pins. Yeah, I thought Those are cute, Loki. Yeah. Jenna Malone loves her. She pricks herself as she tries to put it on, which is a sign that Jesus is no longer in her heart. And they go to pick up Dean from school. And this is when Jenna Malone finds out that his parents have found his gay porn under his bed and sent him to a gay conversion camp called House of Mercy. Which is terrifying. Or Mercy House or something. Yeah, yeah. They open the door and they're like, we just found this magazine. The magazine we saw him looking at. And we had to get, you know, we thought you should know because the parents know she's his little Christian girlfriend and they're like we just thought you should know we had to send them away and like you didn't have to do anything you know like I just the contempt I hold for the parents in this movie it just it makes me sad it makes me feel bad for Dean it makes me feel bad for Jenna Malone but now she gets back in the car and Heather Hilary Faye is like is he coming or not and she's like he's not coming and for her to be internally again going through this totally alone that she did this thing and then now they appear to be being punished for it instead rewarding for it and it's like oh no did I misread did I and again can you know consult with no one I mean the isolation of Jenna Malone in this movie is like really crushing to me and I don't feel like it's like the main front and center element of the movie it's like ha ha ha ha outcast ha ha ha ha decide what truth is for yourself blah blah blah but like her deep deep loneliness going through multiple frankly like life changing things extremely traumatic it's just sad um I think that's the arc of the movie though, right? It's like the culture that she's in promotes this isolation and this shame to keep people apart. And then at the end they have to, you know, get rid of that. Yeah. Break out of it and find community with each other. Yeah. This is, we go to school and it's like the first day of their senior year. This is where we meet Heather Maserato who basically just plays like a needy wannabe. She like lives at a bunch of the places around town and she like, she wants to be friends with Hillary. She wants to be a Christian Jewel. Christian Jewel is like the plastics of American Eagle Christian school. Jenna Malone tells Mandy Moore and the other Christian jewels that he is gay and he has been sent to conversion therapy. And the girls are immediately like, ew, I had no idea he was a pervert. And then Mandy Moore says, we've never had a gay at American Eagle. I love that. I really did love that. I loved that. And I was like, one, statistically impossible. And two, like, hey, gay. Hey, gay. It is so good. And this is where we get introduced to... The idea that Manny Moore loves to save people. She's like, Manny Moore would love to save the gay, Dean. And this is where we get introduced to Susan Sarandon's daughter, Cassandra. Okay. Did I say or did I say? Manny Moore would very much love to save. Yeah, no, that's the thing. It's like also Dean becomes her personal project. Cassandra, who hates her, becomes her personal project. It's like she's collecting them like Pokemon. Did I say or did I say that Cassandra's body was body-ody-ody-ody? Yeah. Like she has that Sarandon ass jeans that's like, honey, this is a Christian movie. She's in a school uniform for most of the time and they find ways for her body to body, oddy, oddy, oddy. She is like one in a mill. She is so hot. It's crazy. And I love her. She's like, it's like, I feel like I know her. She's the best character. They kind of like, they don't do, they could have like tightened up some of the like character motivations and stuff. And the constant smoking when it's like they couldn't think of anything else that would make her a bad girl except like smoking cigarettes. She's like, there's a rumor that she used to be a stripper. She's Jewish. Like there's all this different stuff. She kept getting kicked out of all the other high schools. So this is the one school that like won't kick her out. Which I'm like, I know that there, we've all seen State of Grace. Okay. We, there aren't, there are Jewish kids in Catholic schools. If they're like good schools that are like, this is where you get an education that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So I thought that was very funny. There's a great moment later where Mandy Moore, she's like, I'm so jealous of all this Christmas fun and Mandy Moore's like Jewish. Yeah. It's so funny. Like, it's something they don't talk about. Anyway, in this same classroom scene, we're meeting everybody, a lot of intros. Mr. Patrick Fugit rolls through. Did you notice, they're in, like, homeroom or whatever, when Patrick Fugit comes to school, he's, like, the new missionary kid from, like, South America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you notice there's a giant, like, life-size poster of George W. Bush behind the teacher? No, I didn't. That's so funny. It was that era, though. That's, like, it really does firmly place it in that time he's so cool he looks so cool he comes in with a skateboard my favorite thing in the world again is I was like oh he's gonna be like a cool kid that rejects this shit like yes he's the pastor's son but like he doesn't take this seriously a lot of people go to Catholic school and they're not like it's not that deep but no but no they were like he just finished a world tour like basically teenage skateboarders that travel the world and my favorite one of my favorite moments is he sits down and Cassandra is fucking pissed that He would skateboard for the Lord. Yeah, she says, board for the Lord. No, she was like, hitting the board for the Lord, huh? Like, how dare you take something cool? How dare you? And make it a Christian thing. Yeah. She says, is nothing sacred to you people? And I was like, no, I love it. Because to her, she's like, wait, one other cool kid? And then she was like, no. God damn it. God damn it. They got this hottie too. I know. Hitting the board for the Lord. I love it. It's so funny. This is where Mandy Moore does her big one. Yeah, her big one. Christian rock performance. There's these like big assemblies, which I think is very true. Yeah. We went to summer camps. We went to like random like tinged with Christianity stuff. I mean, yeah, it's sermons. Yeah, yeah, it's sermons. Yeah. And so Jenny Malone's on the keyboard in the back. The one thing that they keep doing in this movie, raising their hand to the Lord at like random times throughout the movie, they'll be like, and you know, thanks for this dinner. And then like raise their hand up to the Lord. So they're singing and performing and Jenny Malone's got like one hand on the I know. I was like, what keyboard solo is she doing that she needs one hand for? But, like, she's channeling Jesus for her musical expression. But I do really like this moment. We get an internal thoughts of all the main characters and who they have a crush on. Maybe more immediately as a crush on Patrick Fugit. Because after the performance, they all do, like, a personal prayer. For, like, what you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we get, like, an inside look on what everyone's personal prayer is. Yeah. Patrick Fugit has a crush on Jenna Malone immediately. Hillary Faye has a crush on Patrick Fugit. Tia, wait. she could be a Christian jewel like it just kind of runs through everybody this is where we find out that Macaulay Culkin whose name is Roland which is maybe a pun on him being I know I didn't love that I was like we have to say Roland that's like a bummer he he is after Cassandra and he's like Cassandra I think somehow like she's into me well he is I think really craving any space he can to like rebel from his position and yet feels literally physically limited and stuck where he is and he sees her as this sort of like representation of like rejecting sort of your lot in life they have a moment where they're like smoking out back and it's sort of a first flirtation he does have a way of like really a penetrating glare where it's sort of like you can't shake me if you tried and it's like frankly I get it but so Cassandra's fed up with all these like sermons and personal prayers and stuff in this auditorium and she starts to do like a bit where she's having like a whatever it's called she's speaking in tongues she's constantly sort of mocking their attempts at saving her getting her to become Christian so she like takes this opportunity to be like I'm possessed with the spirit of the Lord and literally she's saying like I have a hot pussy or something but like in like an accent so no one can understand what she's saying and Pastor Skip falls for it Pastor Skip is like the presence of the Lord is here overtaking yeah yeah yeah yeah and I have to say Mandy Moore is like god damn it she's mocking us she's making fun of us it's so obvious and she stands up on the stage and she's like she's saying she has a hot and they blank out the word pussy and um I have to tell you I did not know the word pussy because I've never I have no memory of this part of it what she said I didn't know what she was saying watching it this time I was like they bleep it out and I'm like and I was like oh my god like whenever I watched this movie because I clocked it before Mandy Moore did I was like oh I get what she's doing she's like saying the same thing over and over over and over again. And she's ripping her shirt off. And Macaulay Culkin is like, she's going to show her boobs. Oh, yeah. It's like she's trying to show her boobs. Everyone is secretly, they go back to everyone's internal thoughts. Like, she's going to show her boobs. And again, like, the rack on Cassandra. Like, honey, praise the Lord. Show those puppies off. Because, like, it's crazy. Again, like I said, like, there's no real need for her to show her body in this movie. And yet it's so spectacular they found a way. Oh, I mean, like, I do think, like, being hot is a sign of having the devil in you. I learned that from A Walk to Remember. Yeah, duh. I love that. That's why she has those greasy-ass bangs. Do you know who else has greasy-ass hair? Jenna Malone in this movie. I know. That's what I'm saying. I know. She has Jesus in her heart. She has that greasy hair. God, you're so right. You're so right. So we cut to the mall, which in places like this is the only real joint to hang out in, I think, to be fair. Cassandra rolls in and is wasted at the mall. And I'm like, there is some backstory. Her thong is hanging out. She's shouting at some ex-boyfriend that works at the mall who's like, you can only assume is older than her but like she doesn't have any friends which is like odd to me I

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guess

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yeah like and it's like you'd think she would have friends like outside of school and I guess maybe it's these like older boyfriends or something but she crashes their little like food court hang and pops a squat on Patrick Fugit's lap which Hilary Faye does not like and in order to lean over and flirt with Roland in front of his sister and just be like what are you guys up to and just like kind of mock them a little bit well Tammy Faye tries to call she's like look like we're having a bunch of fun so she wants to come be friends with us. It's like a part of her conversion scheme. And Patrick Fugit in a demonstration of him being a nice guy although I was like if I was a teenager I'd be like oh Patrick Fugit's trying to get with her. He's like I'll take her home. I'll volunteer to drive her home or whatever. That's because you don't know he's doing the board for the Lord. He's boarding for the Lord. Yeah. And Hilary Faye's like I'll go with you which I just didn't remember this. I was like the three of them driving home in a car is like so funny to me like taking care of this. So we Jenna Malone and Patrick Fugit are sort of like trading glances at each other, but still low interaction. Hilary Faye's working really hard together. She's very distracted because she sees the thing on TV with her mom about Valerie Bertinelli thinking she's pregnant because she doesn't get her period and she has morning sickness, and then realizing she actually has cancer. And this clocks to Jenna Malone that she's been getting morning sickness and not getting her period, so she may be either having cancer or pregnant. And she's like, please be cancer, please be cancer, please be cancer. Yeah. It's so sad. She goes to get a test alone. Mm-hmm. She takes it alone. She runs into Heather Matarazzo in the Walgreens, and so she's, like, immediately shamed. I was thinking she must have stolen it. I don't know. I don't know either. That's why they're locked up, though, is because people steal them out of shame. It's just, like, whatever. They should be free. Let people have them. They should be free. I totally, totally, totally agree. And the ironic thing that she then learns is, like, and you can get help like that for free or for a reduced cost at Planned Parenthood, the place that she's in. a girl gang outside of yeah no kidding like screaming at people in their face whatever it's like it can never be them right but also it's whatever I mean this is a Planned Parenthood statistic right how many people who are off usually outside yelling at people for going into Planned Parenthood then come in to get Planned Parenthood services is like well documented I believe you I take your word for it so she gets to school and there's like a flyer to like save Dean's soul and I'm Like, of course, fucking Hilary Faye is a snake. She, like, didn't have anything going on for her that week. So she needed to, like, make Dean being gay about her. And find a way to get Patrick Fugate to come over to her house. Yeah, exactly. So she's having a big prayer circle to save his soul and everyone come over. And it's, like, completely at the expense of her friendship with Jenna Malone. You know? Her character's called Mary, by the way, which I don't think is an accident. Definitely not. And Mary's like, why would you do this? And she was like, come on. Like, it's the right thing to do to, like, spread the word so that we can help. pray because obviously she's doing it for ulterior motives but when she talks to Jenna Malone she is like this is the only thing we can do to help him

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yeah

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and it's like I don't even think she doesn't mean that it's just these like mental gymnastics of like exposing him and exposing Jenna Malone you've opened your best friend up to those same sort of like criticisms about like she even says in the prayer circle he just needs to meet the right girl like there's yeah but it's all the whole Christian mentality is but it's worth it because blank so yes that's It's totally cruel, but it's worth it because she believes in prayer. It's the fact that you're willing to be cruel. Like, that's where you went wrong. So while they go to, while they're having the prayer circle, Jenna Malone has an appointment at Planned Parenthood and she finds out she's pregnant. The two people who also didn't go to the prayer circle are Macaulay Culkin and Cassandra. And they're seated outside. And they're seated outside the Planned Parenthood. They see her leaving the Planned Parenthood in a not inconspicuous pair of shades. And Macaulay Culkin says, there's only one reason a girl from our school would be at Planned Parenthood and it's to plant a pipe bomb and Cassandra says that's one of two reasons I think this is a really cute moment between them they have their first kiss and the reason I love Cassandra is it's almost like she kisses him because he doesn't believe she'll do it also I have to say Macaulay Culkin has definitely smoked before oh my god I almost thought they were doing a bit that it's like he's so good at smoking that it's like a reveal that like he has like a bad boy streak but then they don't really focus she doesn't she doesn't like express any kind of like oh I'm impressed by this or anything so I was like oh it must just be Macaulay Culkin smokes. It's clear. I mean, it's just obvious. Well, yeah, it's his time on the Manson farm. Yeah. She goes straight from Planned Parenthood. Mary goes straight from Planned Parenthood to the prayer circle to be like, this is not helping anyone. It's very annoying. And this is sort of her break with the indoctrination that she's experienced. And with the Christian jewels and with Hilary Faye. I mean, I think it's so savage. She shows up and Hilary Faye is like, Dean isn't gay. He just hasn't found the right girl. yeah exactly he didn't she did not need to throw Jenna Malone under like that like why like it's Jenna Malone isn't hot and sexy and feminine and achieving femininity well enough to tempt him into the righteous path yeah I mean she calls him a pervert like six different times yeah I'm just like leave Jenna Malone out of it she did all she could do and she shows up and it's a dig at her desirability yeah of course it is but also it's like that's what she thinks you know yeah that is what she thinks like it's so horrible you are desirable enough to keep the devil from injuring your boyfriend. But basically, Hilary Faye's like, if you have anything you want to say, like, I'm sure, you know what I mean, I'm sure that would help the prayer circle. We're just finishing up. As though Hilary Faye has, like, some authority to, like, lead anything having to do with Dean. And this is where Jenna Malone is like, this is bullshit. There's, like, nothing. She says something really sad. You're all wasting your time. There's nothing you could have done that, like, there's nothing you can do that I didn't already try. I did, like, the worst thing you could possibly do to try to help him. Yeah. And it didn't work and Tammy Faye fucking Hillary takes her kicks her out and she's like you don't believe in the power of group prayer you're not a Christian and she takes her Christian jewel pin from her which thank God what really disappoints me as she goes home to Mary Louise Parker who's dying her hair and her mom sucks she's not better like I just the way that she was like mom isn't it sad that Dean's parents have completely like discarded him onto these other people instead of like being a family being parents being and it's just exactly what you're saying like this kind of religion executed in this way is designed to isolate people and make it so that it's like you can't talk to your own children you can't be the person you need Jesus is what they need to like ship them off and Mary Louise Parker completely subscribes to that thinking and she says having a child is like having a car there's certain things I can do for you feed you it's like changing the oil whatever that at a certain point I'm not a mechanic and I completely disagree there is nothing your child needs I mean that's not that's not to say obviously sometimes new professionals professionals at the helm of that is the parent the parent deciding like communicating with their kid having an intuition about their child like investing in understanding their emotions that's how you get effective help you don't say it's above my head it's above my pay grade and ship them off and the fact that Mary Louise Parker does not demonstrate any kind of like departure from that thinking is so so disappointing there's a part of it too throughout the movie that's about um like obfuscating accountability yeah right like I didn't have sex because I wanted to have sex I had sex because Jesus told me to I'm not I don't shoot this gun because I like guns I shoot this gun because I Jesus wants me to I don't have to be responsible for raising my kid I don't have to be responsible for being a good husband because I don't have to be responsible for any of the shit Hilary Faye does because like Jesus wants me to and Jesus will handle it and Jesus has taken the wheel and that's what that's what Mary Louise is saying right here where she's like I can be I can do some things for you but the overall raising of you is out of my hands the responsibility of Jesus well it's kind of like it always has bothered me and I know I've said it on this podcast before but like when you see someone accomplish a really big thing in life it's almost always actors at the Oscars or at the Emmys or whatever and they're like first and foremost before anyone I had this is because of God and it always has bothered me because it's like no you put in those hours you did the work you like and that's fine if you want to thank God it's none of my business but the idea that he is responsible or they or whatever the fuck is responsible wholly for any accomplishment you have and then any failure you experience is your problem how come the bad shit isn't God's fault how come he's not they aren't responsible for all the shitty stuff it's like you get to keep none of the credit for the stuff you do in your life and yet you keep all of the blame and it's like that's my inherent issue with religion I do think that in general he gets the blame for the bad you know what I mean it's like I just don't understand God's plan God's plan. God's plan. Yeah. That's that's just religion. Yeah. I mean, like if you want to thank God, like because you serve him and he serves you, that's not like whatever. Yeah. It's none of my business. I totally agree. I guess it's just the first. It's like the thing you were just saying where it's like I can't raise my kid because that's up to Jesus. It's like none of my accomplishments are mine. It's up to Jesus. It's like thank Jesus and God and whatever all you want. But the idea that they are solely responsible and you're just along for the ride, it just completely takes away any kind of autonomy or credit from the human experience it's just like I it's funny because it's like I think and let me know what you guys think but it's like I think that's the point of religion is to be like I don't is like to feel as though there is a plan that you don't have to be responsible for is the thing that I think makes people feel comfortable and safe and desirous of being and honestly this is a tangent now but like and this is gonna be like most controversial episode because it really is like high-level shit but it's like I think that way of thinking shows up in a lot of places every time you see a meme that says it's all working out it's all you're coming it's like I don't like spiritual in quotes spirituality yeah it's like I don't subscribe to that and it's like I wish I did frankly there's so many times I wish I did there's so many times something bad is happening to me and I wish I had some belief that it was all for a greater purpose or it's all going to work out and I don't really but I do think to your point the whole point of religion is to comfort people that part of it is completely understandable yeah if that is your reason I have total empathy for that I 100 100%. That is a difference in, I think, like brain chemistry. I don't receive comfort from that idea that there's like a plan. If that comforts you, that's just a difference in personality. And I respect 100%. The fact that I don't feel that way is as deeply held a belief. Yeah. You know what I mean? And as valid at one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And stay out of my shit. So she calls her Dean at Hope Glory or whatever the fuck the camp. What's it called? Mercy House. Mercy House. Yeah. Yeah. his roommate is also gay which I love it's like the fucking irony of these camps where it's like let's put a bunch of people struggling with their sexuality alone in a room together and tell them not to touch honestly like let's do it like yeah let people find community yeah absolutely obviously people shouldn't be segregated or sent away from their homes and there is a really great part where Patrick Fugate says Mercy House isn't to help people oh my god it's so good it's so insightful Mercy House doesn't exist for the people that get sent there it exists for the people that do the sending literally sum it up in one It's like, I don't want to look at this. I don't want to deal with this. I would like to avoid this. And here's how I can. And avoid accountability for it. Yeah, 100%. And I can send it away and act like it's not a part of my life. Yeah. And honestly, low-key, Dean, I'm not even going to say it's a good thing because it's a horrible thing that has happened to Dean. But I hope Dean finds community with his roommate. Yeah. But because Jenna Malone has vacated her spot on the Christian Jewels, now Tia gets to be in the club. So she shows up. She's blonde. She's arriving at school with Hilary Faye. It's a big status indicator. And at the same time, we're in the parking lot with that reveal. Cassandra wheels rolling over to her like cool 80s retro car she drives. It's like every time she opens the door, like cigarette butts fall out. She has installed a handbrake on her car so that he can drive her car. And when I tell you... And she can get a handicap parking spot. Yeah, I thought that was very funny. But I was like, this is the most romantic thing I've ever seen. It's so layered to me. And it comes up later about his like own autonomy and being being able to do things on his own. But A, that she wants him with her enough that there is a my space is your space and this is a shared vehicle. But B, that she believes he's capable of more than the people around him have told him he's capable of. And that these simple actions that show her belief in him is moving. It's so, so sweet. I totally agree. I think it's a great example of ways where the difference between how Hilary Faye treats him and how Cassandra treats him where it's like everything about Roland is just another thing about him to Cassandra you know what I mean like what he's able to do and what he thinks and how cute he is and how he talks to her are all just elements of him that she likes whereas you know Hilary Faye and honestly even Jenna Malone until she kind of starts hanging out with them is like no no this is what he is even to Jenna Malone she's like but he can't walk like but he's like, does it ever bother you? Yeah. He's like a, he's like this affliction. Yeah. And it's like, and she doesn't glean any sort of, um, social cachet from interacting with him the way Hillary Faye clearly does. But she does still like not think of him as a person. She thinks of him as like this affliction. And Cassandra is the first person probably in his life that sees him as a whole person. They're outcasts. I mean, Cassandra, yes, probably the first person in his whole life since he was nine and fell out of that tree. I literally wish I didn't even know about that accent. I'm like, just make it from birth. It's too horrible. Um, But like they're outcasts. So it's like it's not just that she's like this big kind-hearted person that sees him as a whole person. His experience in his disability is what makes him similar to her. You know what I mean? They can bond over their mutual rejection from the society that they live in. You know what I mean? It's very sweet. I mean they're the best part of this movie to me. Cassandra approaches Jen Malone and is like, hey, I know. Like I saw you. It's obvious. Like she says something to Cassandra, though, that's like, whatever. I'm not a stripper or like whatever. And I remember being like, damn, this is the first time Cassandra's tried to be like reach out to anyone. And it's like, luckily, they come back from it. They have a beautiful friendship. But I was like, they haven't seen Cassandra even really seeking connection with anyone but Malakoli Culkin yet. So you hate to see like that girl on girl sort of like shutdown when it's like, girl, who else is going to take you at this point? Like you're not in a position to be turning away friends. Yeah. Pastor Skip approaches him. And it is essentially like Mary's lost the way of the light. And as her friends, it's your job to be there for her and try to get her back on the right path. So Hillary Faye takes that as a sign to kidnap Mary and try to perform an exorcism on her. She and the other Christian jewels essentially attack her in the parking lot, drag her into the handicap van and start like chanting at her. Obviously she doesn't take this well. She tries to fight away from them. Hillary Faye is like, you're jealous of my success in the Lord. And she throws up. a Bible at her Mary turns around and she says holding the Bible this is not a weapon yeah I mean it is like it's kind of funny that they're like she's possessed and will exercise her there is also a dig at one of the other Christian Jewel girls where this is one I was remembering in the pre-watch where it's like we're pure and she was like you're not that pure we all remember you at the valley at the rally or whatever it's actually much less explicit than I remember it and I may just be like thinking of other movies where it's like the Christian loophole or something because I do think it's like such a trope that comes up all the time again because you've like brainwashed all these kids into so much shame that they're like doing that same mental gymnastics we're talking about this whole time but Jenna Malone has had it taken a sharp turn and she's over everything they have to say she's like I'm not that interested in this like book she does a lot of research on her own there's some like shortcuts of her in the library like looking into like Buddhism and so because she's seeking right like she it is interesting to me the jump like I can understand being raised in Christianity and turning away from it that I think I know millions of billions of people that's a very common experience to like sort of get older have some experiences for yourself and and see the insidiousness of certain aspects of it but it's interesting to me that she's like well I'll like look for another religion there's got to be some spirituality like she's not totally willing to like let go of I feel like that's the most common thing yeah that's the that's the rise of the like spiritualism I'm not religious I'm spiritual it's because you still crave that comfort you know what I you disagree with some of the more rigid aspects of the religion that you grew up in. Yeah. So after she escapes her kidnapping, Patrick Fugit comes around on his Vespa and offers her a ride home, which she takes. The fact that no one's noticing her baby bump, she's got to be like 5'2", 100 pounds. It's like, okay, I know she's wearing big sweaters and stuff. She does say that it's less common than a skin-eating poisonous disease, so she feels confident that no one will suspect that that's what's going on with her. Okay, crazy. Crazy aside, we went to like a really good high school, but it was a huge high school and it was a public high school. And I did not know one person who fell pregnant while we were in high school. Jordan did. Okay. But still probably 2,500 kids total at that high school. I think we probably had a lower rate than other high schools in the area. I think someone could have gotten away. It could have been pregnant and showed up at school and it would not have occurred to me. I didn't know anyone that was getting pregnant. So it like made sense to me. So she is like, she reluctantly accepts this ride from him because I think she's like she doesn't know what his vibe is he is a weird hanger on of Hilary Faye for this whole movie I didn't remember how much he was just like in her click there's so many times they show up and they're just like together at the mall they're together at the Christmas party decorate and I'm like why does he hang out with her so much and so Jenna Malone also kind of posits that question you know well you were at the fucking prayer circle for Dean so clearly you believe that like his gayness it's so sweet on the back of the on the back of the Vespa he's like Jenna Malone I just want you to know like I don't think your boyfriend is a monster and I don't think what's happening to him is his fault and I don't which like has to be such a relief for her for one person to say like present a different perspective not even her mother will give her that and she's like well then why were you at the prayer circle for Hilary Faye and he's like I thought you would be there which again like the whole theme of this movie is the moral negotiating right like it isn't cool that he was there I hate to think he had a crush on her so he thought I'll go to the the town mob with my pitchfork and my you know tiki torch because the girl I have a crush on is there it would be nice if he was like I'm actually not going to go to like a hate speech rally against a gay kid at school because I have a crush but this movie just doesn't it just doesn't go there totally yeah I mean I think it offers people so much understanding yeah to an extent I think it's fair and then there's moments like this where it's like well that is morally gray to me that he would be willing to go to something like that to to get to like get some time with his crush yeah I mean it's not and but it's like exactly what you were saying where it's like in their eyes it's not a hate speech rally like it's but in his eyes it is he just said you know what I mean he doesn't subscribe to the beliefs that Hilary Faye has yeah but it was willing to fake it they're going on in his community you know yeah I think it's probably not as rare and egregious to him as it is yeah as it is to me yeah but if he doesn't believe in it I hate to think you stopped short of going the full mile there and realizing that it's like not cool to attend I think one thing that is like really important to notice is that Jenna Malone's love for Dean like not even in a romantic way is incredibly abiding all of her decisions and the way that other people talk about Dean and stuff she is very much leading with like a deep and loyal affection for Dean throughout the entire movie it is very sweet they're best friends you know what I mean she loves him yeah so we're back at school and she's under her giant Santa sweater and And this is when Cassandra confronts her in the bathroom and is like, listen. And I honestly think it's admirable. Cassandra's the best character, first of all. But it's admirable that it's like I've been met with resistance from this person. They may reject me. And yet I see that they're totally alone and they need someone. And so she kind of like continues to sort of chase the answer. She's like, well, you could give it up, blah, blah, blah. And Jen Malone's like, I know someone that would buy your baby. And she's like, I'm not going to sell my baby. And that's how she sort of catches up. What she like gets her worked up enough to like, you know, rebuff some idea that Cassandra has. And they both like have this knowing look at each other where it's like, okay, so we can agree that like you are going to have a baby. I think this is an amazing scene because I think Cassandra is really an amazing character. She is. There is no reason for her to be getting this. Getting in this. To Jenna Malone. She's never been nice to her. Yeah. Bullied her in the past. Someone that has rebuffed her several times on this issue. You know what I mean? I can understand one being like, I saw this. I saw you outside the Planned Parenthood. Yeah. But once you're rebuffed, I mean, she continues to go out and insist on being a support to Jenna Malone with absolutely no real reason. And knowing she's going to catch strays for it. Knowing she's going to, like, be fighting through some barbed wire from Jenna Malone, she's like, this girl needs somebody. Needs somebody. And that is, like, a huge expression of, like, of community. She's the opposite of Hilary Faye. 100%. Like, that is a very big-hearted person and a very, very, like, loving move to someone. And again, she also knows what it's like to be ostracized it's like she this little club of misfits that happens with Macaulay Culkin and Cassandra yeah and Jenna Malone is so heartwarming because immediately they just like are hanging out she and Cassandra hug in the bathroom they decide to go to the mall it's so sweet and she's like I thought it was I thought I was like saving his I thought I was like saving his soul isn't that stupid and Cassandra's like it's not stupid it's not stupid and I do think that it is I mean I think it's like an amazing thing that she does because it is different from her relationship with Macaulay Culkin Macaulay Culkin's seeking her her out too yeah they are both seeking they're already on the same yeah they're both wanting to like build community because they're outcasts Jenna Malone is pushing her away and despite the hoping to still belong yeah Jenna Malone is like my association with you indicates less of an association with the community I'm trying to get along with and Cassandra is just like there with open arms like you're gonna need somebody yeah yeah yeah like they're not gonna take you yeah you know what I mean very very intent on being there for her and they've already rejected you frankly but I love the three of them hanging out I love a like couple that can kick it like a three person where it's just like there's still a trio you know what I mean um so she's describing all the reasons why Macaulay Culkin is her like person to Jenna Malone when they run into again Hilary Faye hanging out with Patrick like he just and he says like oh we just ran into each other but it's like they're friends he's like in her friend group and I like don't really get it um and this is Cassandra takes the opportunity to give Hilary Faye basically what she wants which is all opportunity to save her and she's like I think I'm finally ready this is where she does the thing where she's like all this Christmas stuff looks so fun and Mandy Moore is like Jewish yeah and she's like I can't you could join into the in the group too and so to distract Mandy Moore and get Patrick Fugit to sort of be able to sneak away with Jenna Malone Cassandra opens up this opportunity to be saved Hilary Faye takes a seat next to her and she says oh my god I don't have all of my equipment with me but yeah it's so funny and I do think it's interesting because it's like they They've set up the character to be wholly selfish, right? Like she is only pursuing these people to get saved so that it looks good on her. And ultimately her goal is she has a crush on Patrick Fugit. So it was interesting to me that she would be able to be distracted by the thought of getting to save Cassandra. Like that is still more appealing to her than like the fact that she's at the mall with Patrick Fugit right now. Yeah, but I think that that makes perfect sense, right? Because it's like Patrick Fugit is a... His name's Patrick in the movie as well. I know, I liked that too. Patrick is... is a missionary son. He's the pastor's son. He's the most handsome boy in school. He's the coolest boy in school. That's an element of her image as well. Like her liking Patrick is not different from her desire to be the best, most popular, most beautiful Christian. So it's like she can, he can go if she's going to get to save.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

Yeah, I guess that was just interesting to me. It's all just building up her own.

UNKNOWN 1:14:34

Yes, I agree. But it's like you would think she is selfish enough and has demonstrated enough to be selfish enough

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

that it's like in making that choice about where to put her attention, it's like she's with her crush. I was surprised that it's almost like she does see some value in saving people enough so that it could distract her from her own crush. You know what I mean? She lets him get away because she's like, I'm locking into my higher purpose, which I think just surprised me. It's a choice they made about how much she actually cares about saving people. Even though she's saving people for a selfish reason, it's up there with her selfish motivation to get a boy to like her, which I think was surprised me. You know what I mean? So she, so Jenna Malone and Patrick sneak away. For some reason, he knows about the like background space, the back room of the mall. He like knows how to sneak in there. He takes her back there and I'm like, I don't know if he's just like, let's see what's back here. They don't, they're not like, oh, my mom works at the mall. Like there's no explanation. He just like knows the back tunnels of this mall. I think he's like, I don't even think he does. I think he's like, let's go somewhere private. This door is closed. And then it's like, oh, look at this cool space we found. They take a seat on some of the Valentine's Day decorations it's just like a room full of all the different holiday decorations and he basically tells her that he likes her he thinks she's pretty it's so sweet he leans in to kiss her it's very romantic she's sort of like why do you like me she's falling for him she's like falling for him too but when he leans in to kiss her the decorations fall on their head and I think she takes this as like a sign from God that she like shouldn't be entering into a relationship with another boy I wrote aww his little speech is cute but he's like still Christian question mark which I was like this is gonna be the reveal like he started to like crack a little bit where he's like you don't have to believe in any of this if you don't want to but he does he's like yeah I mean I do think she's still Christian like yeah everyone in this I mean except Cassandra even though honestly like there is a moment later in the movie but it's like everyone in this movie the ultimate goal is that they be just better better more loving Christians yeah Christian throughout the yeah I want to know about the person that wrote it like what it's it's like I think saved is so beloved and it's such a cult classic that I did think it had more about not anti-religion but like more of a realist perspective it has a very Christian lens it's so much so that I'm like surprised it's such a cult hit still and has so many like cool culty people in it I don't know um this scene I literally was like I'm just gonna have to ask Jay what's happening in the next scene they're at school in the hallway and everyone can smell something Mandy Moore has her her turtleneck up and Tia comes up and she's like who beefed and I'm like what is the smell thing yeah so Cassandra's Jewish so she keeps kosher so she doesn't eat pork as a Part of her, like, exposure therapy to loving Jesus, many more has said she has to keep bacon in her locker to, like, expose her to pork. So there's bacon in her locker that has gone rancid over the weekend. She says that when she's, like, oh, she's, like, crazy. She, like, had me keep bacon in my locker. And she's, like, well, thank you for getting saved for me. And she says, oh, it's no problem. I got saved last year to go on a ski trip. Oh, yeah, that was a good line, too. I love that. That's, like, that's the realist vibes I'm talking about that I sort of expected to go to Kansas. In North Carolina. Yeah, I love summer camp. I had so much fun in summer camp. I wouldn't say I ever said I got saved. Okay, so that explains that. She takes the opportunity to be like, actually, Hilary Faye, I was lying the whole time. And, of course, Hilary Faye is, like, so disappointed. She said, actually, I've gone so far the other way that I've decided to accept Satan into my heart. I'm going to dedicate my life to Satan, yeah. I love that Tia has started to hate Hilary Faye. I love that it's like this is what Tia, Heather Maserato, has wanted the entire time. And now that she's got it, it's like– It's hell up here. I hate being up here. It's refreshing and I like that journey for her. I think she's, yeah, being exposed to the kind of inner workings of Hilary Faye's mind and she's like, this is not Christian. This is not like... So, Jenna Malone finds a valentine in her locker and it's from Patrick. She writes a valentine to Patrick and she's trying to build up the courage to give it to him in the cafeteria when she sees Hilary Faye give him like some giant one. And Cassandra's like, who cares? Do it anyway. And she's like, no, it's a silly idea. And then she leaves the cafeteria and goes to her locker. And she finds and he's already given her one one thing about him is like she's like I'm not dating I can't give you a shot right now or whatever and he's like why not like I like that he's like he's I think we just live in this world now of like you always have to appear aloof you always have to be like the unattainable you can't chase or whatever that it's like refreshing to see these old movies where it's like I love a lover boy who's like tell me why give me a shot I know like we have a thing you're the one I want like I'm not gonna be easily rebuffed he He's not like insistent. No, no, no. He's not ignoring no means no, but he's like. He just likes her. Yeah. And she knows it. Yeah. And he's not mortified by her rejections in the way that I feel like modern dating is like. Yeah. That would be so pathetic to ask her a second time. Like he is in it for the long haul. And they have a moment where they're talking about Christmas coming up and she has a sort of like internal monologue about how she feels like kindred spirit with the Virgin Mary. And she basically says, I feel like one of the most common things teenage girls are like have you ever thought about like did the Virgin Mary like make it up about oh yeah no this was interesting to me too this was another indicator of what I was talking about where she's like I don't really think she made it up but I think and I'm like see that is so interesting to me I would have said the vibe of this movie is look how silly all these people are and it's not no it's not yeah like I thought she was going to be like of course she made it up no one can ever use that excuse again and then move on to the next scene but they were clear that let's be real she didn't make it up And I'm like, what? A funny thing that I liked that she said in that moment is she was like, it's a genius excuse because you can't use it twice. Yeah. I was like, that is, that is funny. Yeah. No one can ever use it again. Sorry, Mary. Yeah. So then we get this scene that I don't care about at all about Jenna Malone's mom and Pastor Skip. They are like so torn about being in this Chili's together, you know? Yeah. Patrick Fugate tells his dad that, tells us the audience by talking to his dad that Patrick's mom wants a divorce and Pastor Skip won't give it to her because Because divorce is not a part of God's plan. Patrick's like, you need to grow up, essentially. And then Pastor Skip takes Mary Louise Parker to Chili's to be like, I've tried to pray the evil thoughts away, but I still want to kiss you. And Mary Louise Parker does not give a fuck about cheating. She wants to make out with Pastor Skip hard. I just don't like either of the parents. Neither of them seem moral or good to me at all. And I don't care about them getting together. See, I didn't mind this scene because I was like, I think you should leave your wife and kiss Mary Louise Parker. No, no, no. I don't think it's more. I don't give a fuck. His wife wants a divorce, but it's just like there's no coming to there's no journey for either of the parents about like maybe some of this is bullshit and it's holding us back. Like there's no they're just like sitting there like torn because of their religion. And it's boring to me. And I don't like either. I don't like either the choices they make about their kids. I think Mary Louise Parker is on a journey. OK, I think here. I thought this was like romantic because I thought it was going to be us like bringing making free of the shame. You know what I mean? It's not. So they do go back on it. But I was like, oh, this is nice. Like Pastor Skip is like making strides and like learning and growing. Unfortunately, he's not. But I thought it was a sweet scene. She is best friends with Roland and Cassandra now. And so they're hanging out at all the school events. And while that's happening, they've put on a production of Jesus Christ Superstar at the school where Patrick is Jesus Christ on the cross. And there's a great scene of him like literally a Essentially naked, just like tiny little shorts on as Jesus like panting and sweating up on the cross. And it's like a close up of Jenna Malone's face being like, excuse me. Yeah, I know. But yeah, I'm like, he's in the play with her. They're singing together. Like, I don't know why he has so much to do with Hilary Faye. I mean, he could just like being in the play. I get it. But it's like it's so many scenes where they're decorating for prom together. They ran into each other in the mall. They're hanging out. It's like I get that it's to throw you off so that you along with Jenna Malone are surprised that he likes her since he keeps showing up with Hilary Faye. But it makes me like his character less that he doesn't not fuck with Hilary Faye. Like, why would he want anything to do with her, you know? Anyway, I wrote, he's low-key a follower. I mean, I think there's room to think that Hilary Faye is following him around. Yeah, there's room, for sure. But mostly the point of him being up on the cross is for Jen Malone to get hot and bothered and Cassandra to rag on her about it. Yeah. So then there's this whole reveal that, like, Hilary Faye was once chubby. Macaulay Culkin's like, I know her deepest, darkest secret. And it's that at 11, she was chubby. And I'm just like, they said her parents sent her to a fat camp. He says, my parents couldn't deal with having two fucked up kids, which is like, holy shit. So they sent her to a fat camp. I just hate stuff like this. It's like reveal. They did this on One Tree Hill with Rachel, too. It's like my deepest shame. It's like, what? Like, yeah, that I used to have such a moral failing that I used to be. Yeah. Yeah. It's so horrible. Hilary Faye is very pissed off that Cassandra did not actually get saved by conversion tactics. Yeah. And so she is like kind of following around Cassandra trying to get her on tape saying bad things about her. Saying just like cursing. Or she's trying to provoke her. Yeah. So she runs up to her in the hallway and Cassandra yells after her. Burn in hell you narrow minded tacky ass bitch. Yeah. And she's like was that a threat? She like runs away. I love that they can't kick Cassandra out because they're Christian. It's like kind of my favorite thing. It's like the most Christian thing about them. So then they're decorating for prom. Patrick Patrick is like, hey, Jenna Malone, go to prom with me. And she's like, OK, as friends. And he's like, OK. I mean, Hilary Faye is devastated. This was like the one moment I had empathy for her that she saw that happen right in front of her. And Tia is delighting in her. She said, I thought you were going to ask Patrick to prom. She's like, are you going to ask her? And it's like, ugh, so brutal. And something happens. They get like, she gets like the Christian rock band she wants to come to prom or something. So Hilary Faye's experiencing this like W in front of everyone. And Macaulay Culkin's like, yeah, she's going to be happy for her. for about five more minutes. Connor, they walked to remember her. Yeah, they walked to remember her. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. The way we are about to back to back those two scenes. They walked to fucking remember her. I mean, it's so much worse than a walk to remember for like so many more fucked up reasons. It's yeah, there's not the like sexual element in this. Yeah, like sexual humiliation. But there is like it's still body shaming. Totally. Oh, my God. OK, so God, Mandy can't get a break. And it's just like you're I I've identified with our team of misfits this entire time until now this is cruel and unnecessary it's like be above it be above it I wrote yep they're bullies like that's just the that on that basically what they do is they have printed off the photos of her pre-fat camp and they have put them on all of the like school computers and honestly I do think this is all Roland's idea I think Cassandra didn't know I know Mary didn't know but so her response to being walked her remembered is she Regina George's them she She tags the school, vandalizes the school. Yeah, there's, like, a scene of her, like, basically crashing out in prayer trying to approach Jesus about what to do. She does such a great job. She really does do a good job. She tries to talk to Pastor Skip about it. Pastor Skip's like, there's nothing we can really do. Like, I'm sorry. This hurt your feelings. So what she does is she Regina Georges them. She buys a bunch of spray paint. She tags the school, completely vandalizes it, and she blames the three of them for it. Which is crazy because she doesn't even have have to blame them they all show up and it's like we know who did it who did it yeah she just relies on the like bias of the school system to like expect it's them and honestly I was like this is the telling thing about Hilary Faye right is like she goes to the principal to try to be like Jesus would want you to punish them that he's like that's not the Christian thing to do she is looking and even when she's talking to Jesus she's like Jesus tell me what to do tell me what to do to make them pay and this is how you know people who have fascism in their heart will find it regardless of their mindset like she wants to enact violence and Jesus is just her excuse to do that it's not coming from Jesus it's coming from Hilary Faye that's in Hilary Faye's heart regardless of her spiritual beliefs this is the true her yeah this really killed me it's a really tiny moment but their school is going through each of the kids lockers Mary Macaulay Culkin and Cassandra and the way the school is set up like Hillary Faye has a view from the second floor sort of like balcony of the hallway and the nurse pulls out a folder that has Mary's sonogram in it and she sees it she said earlier in the movie she's keeping it in her locker because it's safer than it is at home yeah and Skip calls over to the nurse and says did you find anything in Mary's locker and Mary and the nurse looks at Mary and says no nothing else and I was like it's such a tiny moment but it kills me that she not even and save her but just give her privacy spare her that has nothing to do with this and if she was the same kind of like horrible group prayer works we should out everyone for their shame so that we can pray for them mindset she would have easily been like also she's a heathen in this way and instead she lets this poor teenage girl have an ounce of privacy and she says no and then the dumb bitch drops it onto the floor I was like it's very poignant that it's like an older woman she finds this in this teenage girl She looks at it. She looks at her. She knows immediately what it is. And she doesn't even hesitate to be like, no, there's nothing in here. No, she doesn't hesitate. And that is 100% the right thing to do. But unfortunately, she does butterfingers it and, like, falls to the floor. Yeah. And everyone sees it. I mean, it's so sad. And then Skip, because now he knows, goes to marry Louise Parker. I hate him. And he's like, her getting pregnant is a punishment for our failures as parents. And, like, he insists they also ship Mary off to the same mercy house where Dean is and it's Mary Louise Parker's is like yeah I don't want to do that like what the fuck no she says I don't want to do that and then he's like well if you don't do it then I don't want to continue on having an affair with you because it's not godly yeah and she says he blackmails her it's so insane I'm like how do you root for Skip ever after this I can't like your daughter is a little slut whore and if you don't deal with it I'll I'll like you know what's it administer retribution for your failure to treat your kid like a little whore that you have to ship off. But also it's like he is convinced that it's God punishing Skip and Mary Louise Parker for their affair. Right. And so he's like, we've got to. It was just so it's just really crazy. So he's like, don't you see that this is God punishing us? And Mary Louise Parker is like, literally, no. And he says, we can't even help her because we are not right with God. Yeah. So we've got to send her somewhere else. Right. with people who can who are right with God and then we've got to get right with God and it's like wait like skip the way this is not about you well and it's him trying to think of something active he can do to feel less guilty for what the ways he feels like yeah it's obfuscating accountability yeah it's like your guilt about this affair has nothing to do with going on with this teenage girl yeah exactly and he's a creep I'll say is there something behind his eyes I don't like when Hilary Faye finds out that she's pregnant or whatever and she's like snickering up on the balcony um Roland is in the everything I do like that part what are you so afraid of yeah why are you so cruel you know what I mean I didn't expect the moments that we get between those siblings there's a big one coming and I was like oh I wouldn't even have thought this was like missing this if they didn't have it so we move into this montage moment where everyone's like sad and contemplating life and they play Joseph author may God's love be with you where it's like a picture you in the sun but do you recognize this from the OC no oh my god this is a huge track on the OC soundtrack and I was listening to it and I was like first of all that first OC mix I could probably list the song track like it's so burned into my brain there's actually a really yeah you're talking about the montage of like everybody may God's love be with you I was like this montage is so weird and it's like always and I'm listening to it and I'm like did we not know this was the chorus of this song because this was just playing on the OC this was like a hip indie track on the OC soundtrack and I'm like what like I just couldn't believe it and I was like it is the same era of course um oh my god wait so here's what's happening during the montage and it like kills me oh yeah Cassandra gets expelled and she's like I can't fucking believe this the one time I actually did nothing she's pissed she runs out to the car Macaulay Culkin is trying to comfort her it seems like he did not get expelled and she's like I'm sorry but I can't handle this right now I need to go and she like zooms out and And he's sitting there like, I don't have a ride home. Because, like, obviously he and Hilary Faye aren't square. And this isn't what Cassandra's thinking. And to be fair, she's also a teenager who gets to, like, drive away in her car and, like, have some space. And I didn't know they were going to go do this, this sort of, like, exploration of his dependence on her with his, like, I just thought it was a sad sort of, like, oh, I don't have a ride home. Like, I've been forgotten in a certain way. But then during the montage, he, like, wheels himself home, wheels himself to the cafe. He doesn't wheel himself home. He's sleeping. leaps on the in the yard in front of the Jesus statue oh I didn't know that yeah he like puts his coat over him and then in the morning he has to like get up and get back into his chair and then he's like oh my god and then he's like and then he's like now I've got a like I've got to figure something out and he wheels himself to a cafe when she's driving around she's like please let me find him and I think it's the same day because that makes sense like how do I find him I left him behind it occurs to her that he might be out there but I'm like it doesn't really make sense that he would sleep out in the yard that I didn't clock that it doesn't make sense but it is the next day like if there's a night time but then during this Joseph Arthur montage she does find him at a cafe and she approaches him and she thinks he's going to be so mad at her and she's so sorry and it was then that she says I left you yesterday and I was like oh so he did make it home or whatever but clearly I misunderstood but the way Cassandra plays it like she is so scared she's lost him and she's like okay wait but like let me and he is so calm and he isn't angry and he's like here's the truth I was depending on you in the same way that I was depending on Hilary Faye and I don't want that relationship with you I don't want to need you I don't want you to need me like I want to want you and I do want you and it's like this declaration of why like he wants to be clear with her that he doesn't want her to take care of him he wants to be a partner to her and it's so moving and she is so moved and she's so soft in the moment and they embrace and kiss and it's just like you didn't even really know it was like a moment they needed to have about this like I'm relying on you thing because I think her like putting the brake in the car and stuff were already like these little incremental moments that show that she does believe he has this big potential to be autonomous but it was extremely moving to me that he was like I'm not angry like you should be allowed to like drive off in your car when you're mad and not have to think oh my god I'm like someone's relying on me and I want to be independent I want to be able to take care of things for myself I want to be able to be like a our relationship will be better without the element of I need you also I wrote Cassandra's body is body They have her in these low red jeans and this inside out t-shirt. It's a t-shirt and it's the hottest anyone has ever, ever looked when she finds him. So back at Jen Malone's house, they're really about to ship her ass off. They're like packing and shit. I was like, I hate Mary Louise Parker. She's a bad person and a bad mom. This is so she can keep her boyfriend, by the way. Mary Louise Parker is like, this is a decision that will ruin your whole life. And I'm like, actually, we haven't talked about what will happen when the baby comes a single time. Her entire plan is to like get through high school graduation without anyone knowing. she's pregnant and that's it like there's no birth plan there's no no nothing there's nothing and I thought it was so crazy to me that this is the first time she's like this will ruin your life and I'm like bitch it's already ruined like we're deep in the ruination of your life yeah for somebody to bring it up now as though you can backtrack anything that's happened when you're already eight months pregnant yeah I mean I just think that is the limited thinking of a teenager they're they don't they're not considering the rest but it's like Mary Louise Parker is engaging in this same limited thinking and how is I guess shipping her off it's like she's already almost due like the shipping her off I would think is just to hide someone who's pregnant what's going to happen to her at Mercy House there is some Mary Louise makes some weird comment where she's like Dean is there and so you and the baby and Dean will be together in Mercy House ew anyway she goes to meet her friends Macaulay Culkin and Cassandra at the one corner store where the coffee shop where all the scenes happen in this movie And they're all dressed up for prom. And they were like, they can't keep us from prom. We deserve to be there. Oh, wait, wait, wait. I do want to say there is a weird moment with Cassandra where she's looking for Roland and she's like, please let me find him. And I was like, is this a prayer? Am I supposed to think that this is even a moment of Cassandra speaking to the Lord? I mean, she's Jewish, so she's allowed to have her own relationship with God. Yeah, but I just divorced it completely. I don't think there's an element of religion there. I think she's scared. It stuck straight out to me. I was like, I don't like this, that even in her moment of weakness, she recognized is that she needs a higher power. I was like, Cassandra can be fine. So Jenna Malone shows up on prom night to the little cafe. Macaulay Culkin and Cassandra are all dressed up and they're like, we got you this dress. Frankly, the red dress is incredible. It looks so good on her. And Jenna Malone's like, I don't want to go. And she's like, we have a right to go. They found some credit card bill of Hilary Faye's that proves that she bought all the spray paint that tagged the school at 3 a.m. the night before the vandalism. The issue is, and it's a pretty good issue, they've stolen Hilary Faye's card in the past to buy a bunch of clothes and like go on a shopping spree and stuff. So later at the prom where they're like, you did it. We have proof. They're like, well, you stole my credit card. It could have been you. What are all these maternity girl charges? Yeah, she's like, obviously that's not me. Which if anything, it's like it's more evidence to Hilary Faye for on Hilary Faye's side.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:53

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:54

So they do go to prom and they do confront Hilary Faye. They go to prom, but they're also like, we have a surprise for you. This was so cheesy to me. And she walks around the corner and Patrick Fugit has rented a limo, pulls up in a limo, like it's a fucking Spider-Man 2 alley scene, like the lights. He gets out and he's like, I'm like, the way this man will not take no for an answer. He asked her to prom. He said, we had a date. We had a date, literally. And it's like, OK, so they all get in the limo. He says, I really don't care that you're pregnant. I know. Actually, this is the first time they've talked about it. He didn't know until everyone knew. And so now it's him demonstrating that his offer to go to prom still stands. Yeah. So they'll go to prom. They're all dancing. Hilary Faye cannot stand that. She can't stand that for a second. So she gets past her skip, who just sucks, and is like, we have to kick them out, whatever. Yeah. And this is where they have the big reveal on stage. I do feel bad for her, truly, when she sees that they've showed up at prom and Patrick kisses. Oh, that. And she is sad. I didn't feel bad for her. But I was like, of course, now just give her more ammunition to, like, go terrorize them that she sees that. Yeah. Yeah. And she gets up on stage and is like, they shouldn't be here. They accuse her of the thing with the bill. She makes, like I said, the very valid point that that proves nothing. Lily, or her name's not Lily in this. But thank God for Tia. Tia has found the receipt and the cans in the back of her room. van so when she knows the best part of this is that Tia bites her tongue until she swears to God no Tia says swear Hilary Faye why can't you swear swear to God and they're like yes swear to God Hilary Faye and she does and then Tia's like you're lying it's so good she like traps her to see if she'll do it and she does Tia has the proof that it was Hilary Faye the whole time and she outs her thank God for a little come up and for Tia yeah no kidding Hilary Faye crashes out she runs out of the she's crashing out she runs out everybody goes to Cassandra and Roland actually run after her and I was like the way Cassandra is the biggest hearted person in this the way Cassandra is like oh I feel bad for her that we've embarrassed her that was wrong yeah and it's like this bitch got you expelled but she is honestly extending all of branches to absolutely everybody throughout yeah truly on her way out they're like all following and they run into Dean and like half the kids from Mercy House who have fucking escaped to go to prom skip has rancid vibes again not Not only, he just sucks. He's like, you guys can't be here. You shouldn't be here. And this is to your point when Dean has the little speech where he's like, I've been kicked out of my school. I've been kicked out of my family. Where else am I supposed to go? This is my senior prom. Like if I don't belong here. This made me cry straight up when he shows up and it's like a very tense moment because Mary is standing there. He doesn't know that she's pregnant. So he's realizing in real time. He sees that she's pregnant and he is immediately, it's like the love between them is like, even if it's not romantic, it's so sweet. It's mine, our first time. He's immediately excited. They give each other a great big hug And then Pastor Skip comes out and is like, you guys need to go home. Like, there's no reason for you guys to be here. And he says, this is my prom. And I want to be with my friends. Yeah. I'm literally going to cry. The only community that will accept me, like these band of misfits. And what have I done? Nothing. What have I done? This is my prom. Yeah. And I have a right to be here. And my friends are here. And I have a right to be here. And it was very moving. And I was like, honestly, like, I was like, this is the best scene in the movie to me that Skip, unfortunately, off camera, has ever done. has had this entire self-actualization journey. You're supposed to believe it's meeting his roommate and they have a relationship and feeling less alone. Yeah, and building community. Probably doesn't know any other gay kids. 100%. He introduces him to, he's like, hi, I'm Patrick. And he's like, hi, I'm Dean. And he's like, this is my roommate. And she goes, is this your life partner? And he goes, well, I mean, it's my prom date. It's pretty great. Yeah, it's pretty great. But there's just so much love between them. It's just her relationship with Dean is a standout relationship in the movie for me because it is so sweet and it is based so purely on love and it never wavers and I like the joke about is this your life partner because it's an indicator of like how Christian people that are coming out of their reformed thinking are like okay I know the language let me use the appropriate language yeah she's like tried to find a term right but she's not quite at the place where she understands the full breadth of potential relationship types and it's really funny Pastor Skip is like you guys I gotta leave like it's not right for you to be here like you should be at Mercy House and Mary is like no like they haven't done anything wrong like why would God make us also different if we weren't supposed to be here like and she says what I think is like the point of the movie where she's like things that you don't like and that you can't categorize and that you don't want to see you just ship away and act like they don't exist but that's like not the truth of the like world that God has created for us Dean says straight to Pastor Skip's face I know in my heart that Jesus loves me oh my god yeah it is weird that's the that's the point of the movie I was surprised the point of the movie was God loves me God loves all of us I was like that That's the point of the movie? Yeah, it's not a bad point of the movie. I guess it's fine. But it's just such a more heavy-handed religious message than I remembered it being. I really did think they rejected the hypocrisy of Christianity. But I do think they reject the hypocrisy of Christianity, and they highlight or try to tolerance in Christianity. Can I say I wish they just rejected Christianity? I know they don't, and it's fine that they don't. I would have liked it better if it was like, this whole system is cracked, and you guys are jokers, and we're out of here. But it's fine that they don't. they don't but like I remembered it that way and I think I would have liked it better that way I do think that it's like that's the problem with like organized religion is you're trying to create like structures on earth to control something that is essentially in someone's head in someone or heart you know whatever yeah Hilary Faye in her crash out in the car runs into the giant Jesus cut out and it crashes on her and who goes out to comfort her but her brother Roland she and Macaulay Culkin have this moment and it's like what what exactly does he say to her there's some kind of like Hillary Faye let it go you can be just yourself or something and I was like oh I wouldn't even have thought their relationship was like important to fix she basically comes out and she's like I gave up everything like I did everything I could to try to be a good Christian or whatever and he's like you know Hillary Faye like I'm sorry I didn't I shouldn't have embarrassed you in front of everyone and she says do you think Jesus still loves me and he goes no and then she's like very sad and he goes I mean sure yeah yeah I mean he doesn't really believe in it which is like refreshing I feel so then How does this movie end? My last note is sort of a pro-God message at the end of the day, huh? So during the standoff with Pastor Skip, Mary goes into labor and they call an ambulance. Cassandra thinks they've called the ambulance for Hilary Faye because Cassandra's big hearted ass has chased after that crashing out queen and is like, she hit that thing over here. She's like in a car accident over here. But as they roll up to the ambulance, Mary's being lifted into the ambulance to go into labor. And her boyfriend, Patrick, her boyfriend And Dean's boyfriend. Yeah, I like this. She was like, I'm the boyfriend. I'm the father. I'm the father's boyfriend. Yeah. And it's like, okay, I'll name her one. And he says, well, only one guy can come with you. And this is where Mary Louise Parker comes in and is like, I'm, yeah. Earlier in the movie, she had been like, you're going to ruin your life. And Mary was like, does that mean I ruined your life? Yeah, like, what's the backstory? Was she a teen mom? Like, where's their dad? Probably, yeah. The dad died when she was young. I say that in the beginning. But then Mary Louise gets in the ambulance and she says, like, of course you did. didn't ruin my life like let's go do this Mary Louise Parker is on a journey of acceptance they all go to the hospital Dean is very excited he's I love Dean he's my favorite character yeah he is so excited that it's a baby girl and that she's perfect everybody is allowed in the room to see the baby including Mary Louise Parker um and this is where she's including Mary Louise Parker the mom yeah the mom is in there too um and Mary Louise Parker's holding baby she sees Pastor Skip out the window who is like trying to to overcome his prejudices to come in. I know. And he gets credit for it, too. I don't think he does get credit for it. She watches him go back and forth. And before he can make a decision, it cuts back to Mary Louise's face and she just looks away. She's just like, actually, what he decides to do is none of our business. He can come in if he wants. And if he doesn't want to come in, he can be not a part of this. But basically, the message at the end of the day is, right, like we have built a community that is based on love, that is based on acceptance. And that is like what I think is what Mary thinks the interpretation of the Lord's word is. And that's how it ends. Yeah, that's how it ends. It's like, OK, I liked it. It's cute. I mean, she says like, you know, we're just trying to interpret it and it's been interpreted wrong a lot. I do think it is ultimately like a Christian movie, but it is trying to point out the hypocrisies. It does. And it successfully points out the hypocrisies. Mostly it's a big like LOL at the types of Christian people that are like Hilary Faye. But I'm like, I don't know. And Pastor Skip. And Pastor Skip. But I don't know that it does sort of root out the hypocrisy that's inherent in the can't be divorced from it I wish it was edgier I guess I just wish this movie was edgier I wish it was like willing to make them the butt of the joke in a more authentic way like in a way that's more proportional to the actual harm that they do you know what I mean it's like they make them the butt of the joke as though they're ultimately harmless and I don't believe that's true yeah I do think that the ultimate point of it is that like they're misguided but that they are good people who have good hearts yeah that I don't love that mess And that is true of so many people. Of so many people. But I think you're right. That's not proportional to the damage they cause by being misguided. I do think it's true that most people that are Christian think that they're good people, whatever. I think a lot of people who are Christian literally are good people. Yes, but the structures of Christianity cause a lot of harm. The way they could have held up a mirror in this movie and didn't, I find disappointing in the movie. I think the belief in God and in Jesus is not inherently harmful and so if we end this movie on any idea of like that's what we're holding love in our hearts and for our neighbors then great and the fact that like it's been misused on earth in order to punish people and frankly torture them all that's right I agree with all of that I do think it's interesting that you and I both like growing up in Kentucky saw this as such a like as children saw this as such a like radical indictment of like anti-religious sentiment It's not. It's not at all. And it's actually very religious. It's very pro-religion, yeah. And it's, like, all the actors that took part in it. It's, like, they're, like, trendy, hip people that I thought were making, like, an edgy indie movie, and they're making, like, a Christian film. This is as Christian a film as A Walk to Remember, for sure. For sure, yeah. Which is fine. It's still funny. It's still cute. I remembered it differently. I like the message of this movie better than the message of A Walk to Remember. Yeah, me too. I think A Walk to Remember is a little bit more in line with the Hilary Faye's of the world than this movie was. Okay, you guys drop into our comments about this. We already talked about You know, we try to be respectful, but we are here to give you what we really think. And we don't want to be divisive for the sake of being divisive. But that's the tea on this godly ass movie. I'm going to say Watchability is like a six for me. Like, it's cute, but I don't love it. And I'm going to say Underrated Ashley has to be like a nine. This is the best she ever, ever is. And she carries a lot. She's in the movie a lot. She is at one of the main... three characters of this movie. Yeah, I honestly agree completely. I would say the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Who do you think saved this movie? Dean. Macaulay Culkin. I don't even think Macaulay Culkin does such a good job, but I think his performance is pivotal. I think his role is pivotal. I think Cassandra is the hottest person alive, but I thought there was times where she was doing a lot and sort of didn't have a grounded motivation. She could be a shallowly written character to me. In the beginning, particularly. I really was shocked at the kindness she displayed to everyone in this movie. I know. It's very notable. But with very little reward or payback. Yeah. Or incentive even. We finally have to watch Sidney White next. Sadly. So we'll see you for that. Faith was written by Brian Danily and Michael Urban and directed by Brian Danily. This episode of Second Showing is produced, recorded, and mixed by Connor Riley and Jordan Riley. Art by Connor Riley and music by Lee Rosa Barrett. You can follow our podcast on TikTok, Instagram, and X, formerly known as Twitter, at SecondShowingPod, spelled with a number 2. Send us a DM and we can mention you on the pod. You can join our Patreon for exclusive content and stream Second Showing anywhere you find your podcasts.

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