In My Kitchen with Paula

Savouring Alentejo: Alfredo Cunhal Sendim’s Portuguese Legacy & Montado do Freixo do Meio

• Paula Mohammed • Episode 21

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Did you ever drive by a village when traveling and wonder what people do here day to day and what is their story?  

In this episode, Paula talks with Alfredo Cunhal Sendim, a former fisherman turned organic farmer from the Alentejo region of Portugal. 

Alfredo shares his journey from the sea to farming, championing the Montado agro-ecological system in Freixo do Meio (a former estate). He discusses his family history, the importance of acorns as sustainable food, and how the Montado system intertwines with Portuguese culture and cuisine. Paula and Alfredo also explore the power of trees and the impact of balanced ecosystems, providing listeners with a deep dive into sustainable farming practices, community building, and food innovation. 

The episode concludes with details about the University of British Columbia Alumni Travel Club's upcoming culinary tour to Portugal, including a visit to Alfredo's Freixo do Meio.

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In My Kitchen creates connections one dish at a time, by exploring culture through food. I do this through unique culinary workshops, speaking engagements, and of course, this podcast.

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Hi, I'm Paula Mohammed, and welcome to In My Kitchen with Paula. This podcast is a gathering place for culinary adventures who love to travel. Every week, we'll come together with chefs, cookbook authors, talented home cooks, and everyone in between to talk about their story and their unique dish. Using food as the vehicle, we'll take a ride into the ins and outs of their culture and country.

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Welcome back, everybody. In this episode, I have a conversation with Alfredo Cunhal Sendim, who lives in the Alentejo region of Portugal.In this episode, Alfredo talks about how he transitioned from being a fisherman to an organic farmer, championing the Montado system in Portugal's Alentejo region. He shares his family history on their estate called Freixo do Meio. Alfredo also shares how the Alentejo region's quiet charm and traditional lifestyle Lisbon, making it a unique destination for experiencing authentic Portuguese cuisine.

Portuguese culture. Alfredo also highlights the importance of acorns as a sustainable food, and so much more.

Welcome to the show, Alfredo. I'm so excited to have you here today.

Thank you. I'm very excited. Also, thank you for the opportunity.

I'm just going to introduce to my listeners Alfredo Cunhal Sendim. Alfredo was a fisherman who is now an organic farmer leading the way in agroecology system on the estate that belonged to his family before the revolution. It wasn't until the 90s that Alfredo found himself back on the estate and discovered his passion for living and farming in a Montado system.

This is a little description I took from your website of the Montado, Freixo do Meio. The protected landscape of Montado do Freixo do Meio is a natural treasure that transports you on a journey through time, bridging the past and the future. It is a space rich in culture, history, and biodiversity, open to the entire community.

Alfredo, can you start by telling us a little bit about your story from, you as an eight year old boy on your family estate to how you found yourself in the role that you're in now.

Okay, of course. , you know that, , we had a revolution in 74, 50 years ago. And in that moment, the south of Portugal, we have different realities in the north, We have for always a very small property, but, in the south, also connected with the resources and the type of ecosystem and the climate.

The, for some years, I will say for three centuries, the property is big. So my grandfather was a big owner. of , farms. He was a very special man. He was owning a bank of agriculture. He started the bank of agriculture. He really believed on economy and, and especially to change the social reality here because the farms were big.

But there was a lot of people, , starving without, uh, work and without labor. And, um, well, a lot of social problems. That's why we had a revolution. But I was, , six years old when I had a small problem in my heart and my mother sent me from the city to, in Lisbon, to have a fresh air. And so I lived with my grandfather the last two years, , before the revolution.

So that was important for me because I could touch and see the social reality, all these moments. And then I assist to the revolution and, the consequence, my father was Basque. So we immigrated to Spain, we had no work in the first years. There was a deep communist vision. I had a big experience as an immigrant in Spain.

And then I returned to Lisbon and I start my relation with the sea. And 15 years later, the government in Portugal decided to return the to the old owners. My grandfather was in that moment dead, and my my mother, She was a unique child and she started this process of having back the property of the farm.

She was a social assistant and she looked at the farm especially not only as a productive or economy way, but especially as a social issue. And that was very important in all this process. But I can say to you that I returned to live to, to this reality, let's say in 1990, 32 years ago. And I started to live in this farm that, that Freixo do Meio.

In that first moment, I applied all the ideas of productivism to produce a really food. In that moment, Portugal entered the European community. So we were, really thinking that we had a lot of opportunities there and we can produce more things. So my first approach to this ecosystem was the mainstream projectivism.

So I changed a reality of 1, 000 sheep in 5, 000 sheep. I changed a lot of things, of course, there was economy there, there was production of food, but also a lot of social things because we, for instance, we introduced the fences, the shepherds were all the day , with , the flocks and so we, well, we started these, investment and is returning to the business of farming, let's say, as a family tradition, and it failed.

It was completely non, good in terms of, , results. Not only in terms of economics, but especially in terms of social results. My mother wanted me to provide specially, uh, labor, jobs, um, and, uh, to increase the, let's say, the general quality of life of the people that live here in the rural areas. And that was not so easy.

So, there was a moment that I decided to quit, to go to return to my fishes. And, , and my mother told me, no, uh, well, I was working for my mother in that moment, of course. And she told me, no, we, we are not here again to make this ridiculous approach. We have to find a solution. If we cannot find it in the first time, we'll have to search and to go more deep.

So. Please present me other alternatives. And in that moment I started to study engineering subjects and I made an engineering career, but then I was more focused on economy and I was really interested in process of differentiation of commodities in agriculture. I was studying the first movements of La Belle Rouge in France, and, uh, that was the beginning of the idea of Europe about,

origin denominations and all this stuff. process of, , establishing, , ways and, , a lot of soul, uh, differentiation process of food. And I was very enthusiastic studying these. And I, uh, also I was studying and I was, , having the first contact with organic farming and agroecology, all these, and so I thought that maybe.

We can provide, I could provide an alternative to my mother, introducing a new way, a new ethics, related with agroecology. And it was a big change. We were based on a very ancient model, , that's called Montado. Montado, it's an agroforest. It's completely the philosophy of agroecology. That reality was very important because we, in that moment, really, we didn't have a Already the Montado system, but we have the trees and we had some in some places we can see it and that's very important for us to be convinced if we can.

It's not only an idea, an abstract idea. There are elements here that makes sense for us. So there was a moment that I proposed to my family to convert everything inorganic to go. Thank you. To the Montado system really to try to understand it deeply, what was the Montado system? And at the same time create a family of products under the umbrella of Montado so we could make, a brand of, food.

And that was, uh, let's say the beginning of this new approach to the landscape , to these ecosystems.

That's fascinating. Your mother sounds like she was. Very, uh, progressive, like your grandfather, very ahead of her time. To clarify, can you briefly describe what the Montado system is? And also, agroecology,


Okay, the next part, Alfredo and I have a conversation about what is the Montado system and also agroecology. I learned so much here and it's very interesting, but if you want to jump right to more about what is the Freixo do Meio and how the Montado system has inspired a system there, and hear more about the Alentejo region.

Please jump to the 20 minute and 48 second mark and then at your leisure, I highly recommend you come back and hear more about Montado and agroecology.

Okay, of course. Montado it's a human system. It's designed and managed by humans, but it's based on the observation and it's completely inspired on the natural system that it's running here. After the Holocene. The Holocene, it's a very important moment, , 11, 700 years ago, where, when the climate that we are now in risk to lose started.

And the Holocene, it's a new,, also, uh, biological era. For instance, in the Holocene, All the north hemisphere was covered by oaks. We have, the oaks. It's the tree of the Holocene. And what happened is that, our relation with this new ecosystem, pushes to understand that without trees, we cannot live here.

We've done this experiences, uh, different times. First was in the late Neolithic, 5, 000 years ago. Then in the Roman moment, we have the same problem. We didn't understood the, let's say, the ecosystem. We didn't respect the ecosystem. Mainly we cutted all the trees. And when we cut the trees here, I think in, all over our planet, we can start to to, to count the days to find a new home.

There was a moment that we already cutted all the trees in the Bergen peninsula, and we had very, very hard consequences of it because of this. There was a moment, of course, it was not a collective consciousness that create these, it was an opportunity of market. Based on the wool of the Marinos in Spain, we realized that without trees, we could not sell the pastures to the Marinos, sheep.

So there was a moment that we realized that without the minimum of ecosystem running as it goes normally. We cannot leave. So Montado is this, this Montado it's a human system that respects the limits of self running, let's say, of nature. There are trees, there are shrubs, there are pastures, three levels of using the light.

To photosynthesis. And then you have, the Montado, it's run by wild elements. The unique domestic elements are the mega fauna, the big animals that we don't have anymore, the wild ones. So we use the first domestics, for instance, coming from the Auroch, that was the wild bovine of Europe. We use the domestic, the first domestic created, based on the, Auroch and so on.

So why is Montado agroecology? Well, agroecology for me, it's an ethics more than anything. Okay. We can say that it's a science. It is, it's a science that. Manage, ecology with agronomy, with social things. It's also a movement, a political movement, okay? It's also a very ancient way the humans understood a way to relate with nature.

But it's, more than anything an ethics. Why you do things and how you do things. And it's an ethics. that say to you, that, you, instead of using nature, , what is this of being part of nature of being part of an element of the system? So it's for me more a question than an answer. I'm not a dogmatic person.

I like to find, , Ways and then living mainly, um, testing and making experiments and looking it very critical and sharing somehow the results. So the ethics of agroecology. It's mainly this idea that you are not owning this system, but you are part of it. And, uh, if you want the organic, rule, regulamentation, it's the moral of these ethics.

So it's a way that help people to understand this. But of course, it's rules. Rules never, never, substitute the deep, feeling that is, , why and how you really do things.

And is this way of working with the land and working with nature unique to, Freixo do Meio or is this happening throughout the Alentejo region and in Portugal? That's

No, no at all. Montado system was, I will say that was our first big technology approach, in the middle age. It was decreasing, of course, when you, when we found. Well, the Green Revolution, let's say, and all these, more industrial, concept of using the spices that we have for a long time in Occident, of course they are completely opposite of being part of the system.

I will say that was a vision that was less and less, used, and especially The moments, the last period of the dictatorial in Portugal, uh, before the revolution were very hard to destroy these Montalos because our dictator, he decided to use the good soils that was a consequence of these Montalos systems.

To transform it in cereal and to create more power and more more economy, of course, that was possible during a period but then When the fertility was used, without fertilizers, let's say but to answer your question, we are not the unique ones. We are probably the farmers that Re thought And reintroduce The original concept of Montado and that's why we are nominated by the Portuguese government to the protected area, the private protected area of Montado.

There is not more. Somehow we have this honor to represent these Montano. That is the same. It's more easy for you to talk, for instance, on a Yeah. All clan landscape. It's a landscape all covered with trees where we do farming behind. We, where we have livestock, where we have, olive trees. I like this image to look at nature and think what, how could humans organize nature without destroying it, but still continuing to have a natural system.

It's more or less a more ordered nature in the concept of savannah. Also the savannah. It's very interesting for us as a landscape because we know now that we are not so comfortable in the deep forest or outside without any protection. So the landscape, it's important for us. We are empathic beings and we don't feel the same in the edge.

That's what we are talking about. It's a permanent edge, let's say it's the border between the forest , and the completely, landscape without anything

a great description. I'm a very visual person. So when I first started looking into, the Montado and understanding what you're doing, I had a bit of a challenge and then I really understood it when I saw a video. I think it was on your website. Or I saw it in my research, but it was you, out in the pasture.

I'm doing quotation marks because it's not, I'll paint the picture. There's tomato plants, but you wouldn't really know that the tomato plants are there because there's still the shrubs, the oak trees, and you reach down and you're leading a group on a tour. And you show them these herbs, and you say, you know, these herbs are actually not good for the tomato plants because I think it provided too much moisture, I'm trying to remember, but you don't pull them out because they're serving their purpose, because then as those tomatoes die off, then it brings in crop rotation, so it really helped me understand this idea of Montado, farming within the existing ecosystem.

Have I got it?

that fits completely. It's important to tell you that Montado, it's the. Human concept of relation with nature. Let's say I like to describe agriculture like this. How do we relate with nature to have what we need? It's the human example with the biggest, levels of biodiversity. So has a productive system.

That is, that's not a natural park. No, it's it was done in the desert when we cut that all the trees. So we started from the beginning. That's a very interesting thing and very inspiration, a big inspiration. Of course, Montado, it's a vision from more than 300 years ago. So this means two very good thing, two important things.

Uh, one is that the time. Provides a very important thing in nature that is balances regulations. It's the opposite of drugs. o has that. The, the not so good thingMontadotero is that now we know a lot more about ecology. We know a, a lot more about the agroecology, so we have, knowledge and we have.

Technology that it's very, very important. So Montado, sometimes it's look like, like an old fashioned thing. We think there are good. We also have to think that we are talking about a system and the system works, independent from us. We can be part of the system, but if we are not there, the system is still continuing.

I can go to Canada for months and the acorns in my Montado are still being produced there. It's very important in this moment in the mosaic, in a balanced mosaic, I will not say that we don't have factories, but because these systems are much more resilient to a climate that we don't know what it is, and they are very important on our safety, let's say, um, strategy.

Of course, it's not easy to think on a model immediately to feed the people only with the systemic approaches, but they are very important to make a correct balance, I think,

The Freixo do Meio is in the Alentejo region. So we'll come back and talk about that region a little bit more. Montado Freixo do Meio transitioned from three crops to over 50.

transforms natural resources to food, provides work to 10 times more people now, feeds at least 50 percent of daily food needs of 300 people roughly, and has seven food processing centers on the property, and pioneers of the food to fork movement in Portugal. So as I said, at first it took me a little bit to get my head wrapped around visually what you were doing and what this is.

I was really quite blown away by what, what's been created and how the system works. What I found really interesting is when I read that, the bread, sausages, pepper paste, and pork that are produced on your, on the, , Meio do Freixo are traditional methods of production from the region, but the remaining production methods are other products and the methods come from around the world.

That influence how they're done. Can you talk a little bit more about that? We talked so much about preserving the traditional method, but I think we have so much that we can learn globally as well.

Of course, it's important to you to understand that we are working mainly to provide economy, On this, Natural Solutions based, so we have now like, , in other places can tell for instance about California. We have a big process of changing the landscape and we are not against that, but we are.

Working for a balanced landscape with different types of pieces on the mosaic. And so the unique way to, let's say, , put your solution on the map. It's having economy. The more or less, the same economy than the solar panel, alternative or the super intensive, crops. So we are very focused, not for accumulation of, , assets and the property.

We work mainly because we love this,

So, for that one thing, it's really, trying to, uh, change the way we look to the farming method because we want to. Uh, continue dreaming and making money, let's say, but without the consequence of destroying the ecosystems, the biodiversity, the soil all over.

So this must be a big change. And how can this be possible? Well, we first we are. Going from a production, philosophy to a gathering philosophy, we more and more gather. Well, okay. We still have some factories, for instance, to produce a lot of horticulture of everything in a, in organic, more than inorganic in the ethics of agroecology, but we more than anything we gather.

We have, uh, no more animals for economy or for meat production. We have animals. We look at the animals as instruments of regeneration of ecosystems. We need them. And of course, if there are a culture, if there is a market, we have to regulate. There is limits for these animals and all the result of this regulation goes to the market and goes to our products.

But one way to provide economy in these solutions are of course adding value. To these products that we can gather. We are talking about things so different as, uh, wild oregons, mainly about acorn food, acorn food. It's the big new economy. We can have a lot of food. A lot of nutrition, a lot of economy in acorns, but also in all the other things.

We don't have seven. Now we have 13 microprocessing factories of, transforming raw materials in food, legally. Okay, so we are talking about a bakery. We are talking about the slaughterhouse for chicken a solar dryer That allows us to do a lot of dry Sunny dried food we are talking about olive oil, meal, uh, that we use for us and for other farmers. We are talking about, a place to make wine, nauticulture, fresh, , Processing area. we make pasteurized the juices soups. We make more than 300 reference. So food, of course, the reference is a code bar. So from a pig, we do a lot of because we package everything in small pieces and so but this approach to find new resources like the ACORN and get value, not only the economic value, but of course also labor, also, food solutions that are more, let's say, more autonomous, more independent from, these geopolitics that, it's behind our, our food system.

That's one way to create economy, but I have to tell you that it's not enough. We had to edit different layers, economic layers like the cantina, the restaurant approach for us. The best package of any, , food item is the stomach. Uh, we don't need plastics or so on. If people come and eat here and realize here is the best package.

So it's the biggest, Let's say add value differentiation. We mix in our cantina, uh, very traditional things like the stew, but also for instance, our main dish nowadays, it's a vegan hamburger of acorn. With 60 percent of acorn. That's very didactical also, because another layer of economic theater we are working.

It's the education for schools for people for visitors for any type of people sharing our capitals of not only things related with ecology and biology, but also with anthropology with we have, a long story in this farm. I like to say that this farm started 4, 500 years ago when the planet started, a million years ago.

So it's a long story, but we have people living here. We have the first villages of Neolithic. We have one, that In a project of experimental archaeology, we rebuild it. And, uh, so we are, we have people living here for more than 5, 000 years. And that's a long, long, long story. All this knowledge about, cultural things are very important capital to, to use and to share.

This to say that we, of course, we have also another layer that is the people that can stay, that can sleep here. We have more than 50 beds. We are not an hotel because the first, the most important thing we do here. It's living. It's really taking the opportunity of being alive and is a wonderful planet and use our life to make experiments and to make things better and to be somehow better persons and to, for instance, to, a every day.

Rethink your relation with nature. It's a process. It's not something that you wake up. So I would say that we in this We are very very respectable with traditions But we are very open to opportunities and we for instance we had an opportunity of a friend. It was an Austrian woman, you know, the north of Europe has a big tradition in meat and in very good organic meat processing.

And there was a woman that was coming to Lisbon and she wanted to make a very good sausage restaurant, with the traditional sausages of Vienna, Austria. But she wanted organic and she wanted with the. The good meat from here, not importing and she has very big criteria and a lot of things. , we spent two years to learn to make this. The culture of course has affected our traditions, but every day we are making a new culture. We are, even if we don't know, we are responsible. We like this idea. That was probably, one for at least one of the ideas of the Portuguese people when they went to when they get lost on the sea.

We never wanted really to find nothing. We get lost as a consequence of the bad relation that we had here with nature. We get to this Atlantic Sea. But of course, we always had, I would say, an attitude of gathering, of joining the good things of all the planet instead of this imperialistic vision that say, I have the true in my hand and I have to, convince you that this is my way to live is the best way.

No, we always had a different approach. Where are the good things? Okay. Let's make a culture with this mix of good inspirations all over the world.

I can't wait to come and visit. I want to come back and talk about the acorn. But before we do, as a visitor to Portugal, I land in Lisbon. After hearing this podcast show, I really want to come and visit Montado Freixo do Meio. How do I do that? And what can I expect when I arrived there and where are you exactly?

So we are very close to Lisbon. We are one hour distance from Lisbon, 100 kilometers. We have our webpage with all the indications and contacts. It's translated in English. , so what we are somehow a natural park, , of Portugal officially considered we, you have always, uh, on the weekly days.

Sometimes we work on weekends, but I think. I told you that we are living here. So this is not, let's say a park of, there's a home of people. , for instance, myself, I, I like very much to travel, especially when they invited me and of course you are all invited, we are, we love to share our.

space, our home, our, as an attitude to a new culture. So, but we are not an hotel. It's not possible for instance, to sleep here. If we don't know a little bit of who you are and why do you want to come here? So you have to email us. And, uh, of course, if you email and say, well, we are interested because we listen of Paola podcast, of course, we will have an attention.

What we can do automatically is book, a visit, and here you can, , learn about. Agroecology, but you can make else only a safari and I can show you the original animals of Portugal. The first domestications coming from the wild. We can talk a lot about wild creatures we have here, for instance, the wild cat.

It's not easy to see, but we can show you, we can make also, we are going to a scientific, Tourism, let's say putting people helping to do things that are important. Of course it's, it's possible to come and only have a traditional or innovation meal. It's possible also to make a self guide tour.

We can give you a map. And you're not in the big area of the park, but you can in the center, you can go by your own, you can talk with the people. So I think there are a lot of things that you can do here. We have two interpretation centers that you can visit one based on the, um, it's a chronogram of the impact of humans over our landscape.

So, uh, you can see, What was the landscape? I that's not so easy to find is, I think I saw it once in the United States, probably in a natural museum, natural history museum, but we don't have in the planet so many. Of these honest approaches to what we've done to ecosystems. We don't have any idea that, for instance, we are now living in a desert created by us and eight billion people in a desert.

It's completely different than eight billion people living in a climate ecosystem. There is a lot of things. Uh, around these and we have another interpretation center based on megalithism. Megalithism, it's the first art expression with stones and, we have the luck to have a big friend and, Manuel Calado, it's a big archaeologist and he's living here with us, and helping us to make all this happening.

Since three years ago, and, we have these two instruments to, let's say, to talk better about things, but let people also, see. Well, and then we have the landscape of Montado, our natural park, it's organized in four areas, a social area, where we live, where we do economy, and it's 5%, where the priority is not nature, it's humans.

And then 99 percent of the area, it's nature priority. And there we have conservation area where we can see some, uh, models. original, the first models of, , agriculture of you, sorry, humans here. So when we had the big forest and then we started to open clear years and we can see these in an area where domestics don't go, and it's more or less a 50 hectare area of protection nature.

I have to tell you that we don't like too much the pure concept of rewilding. I think if we destroy it, we have to re to regenerate. We don't have time for nature to do that alone. And then we have 450 acres of Montado, pure Montado, probably. One of the best in Portugal, very rich in biodiversity on different, with different, wild beings, vegetable fungi.

We have, for instance, a list of more than 200 macro fungis, wild fungus, mushrooms identified the batrachios, the mammals, so we have. A welcome center here in the center. So you, when you come here, you can, you are welcomed by a center where can, you can have information about all this data, but you can also take a coffee or buy a book or, uh, well talk with us.

There's a lot of things that you can do also, in the region. So you are very, very welcome.

Sounds wonderful. I can't help but try and visualize what it was like for you to be in that, on that land as a child growing up. That must've been wonderful

Yes.


, I have to share with you that, , I like much more now, uh, because, uh, that moment there was a lot of people, there was a big distance between the people that own and the people that were living around.

so it was really poor. It was, at the same time, much more, uh, joyful, more, people were more happy, but was, it was, , I was a kid, but I can feel some tensions, and my grandfather was a special man, he was really a deep Christian, he, and he was focused on the common good, and trying to do their, her, It is best to somehow, , make this situation better.

Of course, I was, a small kid of the rich family. So I was, everything was like golden, uh, for me. The revolution was very, very important to allow me to see other realities and to live and experience other realities. But I will say That, , nowadays we have, , more developed, scenario with people more balanced, , in terms of income.

We have a wonderful, our first capital here, it's safety, safety and peaceful. We, we live here really in, well, there is, some activity during the day. We have a village, , two kilometers, uh, close, connected with the farm. So we look at this farm as a platform of this village. This is a small village with 1000 people.

A very good number because everybody knows. Everybody there is a completely safe. I live here for 32 years with my doors open with the keys on the car. My kids running away. That's a very, very important capital that we don't want to lose. And that's another important thing when we talk about a balanced mosaic of landscape.

your grandfather do you often think how proud and how happy your grandfather would be to see what you've created. Now,

Yes, yes, because he influenced me a lot, and of course I'm, concerned about what my ancestrals, , well, we have here a big tradition, for instance, related with the Meneers. The Meneers are people. And, the Maneers are people because when we make decisions, uh, we had this tradition to try to understand what was the Maneer saying to us, uh, and then you can talk about the tree or have various symbolic ways.

So for me, it's really, really important, not to do the things, , has he done, but, I am of course doing things very, very different than my grandfather, but I, I believe he will be very proud of at least the attitude of trying to has a critical vision and trying to, , be an actor of our culture, , not just, spectator, uh, that's very important.

That's something that I learned from with him, , to be part of the, the building, let's say.

I'm curious to know the impact of tourism on the Alentejo region. I haven't told you this Alfredo, but I actually had the opportunity to live in Portugal in the nineties. When the expo was on at Lisbon, I was a event producer and I wanted to go and work at the expo. I lived in Cascais for about four or five months.

I never worked at the expo, but I had a fabulous time and I spent about three weeks traveling in the Alentejo region. And it always left such an imprint on me as, like, I don't know how to explain it, but it was so different than being in Cascais that's for sure, or Lisbon. I got a glimpse of what real Portuguese people were living and, and it felt, , like I was a part of the communities and the villages.

I love the way you talk about, maintaining the traditions, but also embracing opportunity. So tourism would be opportunity, but how has it affected the region?

I say that it's not affecting the region, like other regions, for instance, Lisbon. Lisbon has a big impact. I grew up in, in, in a city as Lisbon, that was a, let's say a group of neighborhoods and was lisbon when I was a kid was a lot of small villages connected more than a city and nowadays it's more an attraction park.

It's a nice attraction park but it's so everything more and more focus on visitors and less and less focus on people that are living. I will say that is not happening still in Alentejo. We have some, , industries, let's say, of tourism, very focused on some Places and some hotels, but we still have a thing that I love that is an attitude of discovering and sharing and And people are not looking looked at as only as tourists, but else but are looked as persons I think we still have this Around us and we don't want to lose it.

That's why we think that tourism is very important for these economic, results that we need to provide this, landscape, mosaic. But we look at tourism, uh, mainly as a sharing, attitude of learning attitude more than just, using our good sand and, and the beaches.

We don't have swimming pool, for instance, in Freixo. We never had, , and we could, for instance, I, , one of my brothers have a five star hotel. It's his business, uh, land and vineyards. Uh, here and it's something that it's very good, but you can find it all over the planet. So it's not special in anything.

There was a very good, uh, buildings designed by the big architect, well, it's not a critical, it's another way, but I'm much more focused in simple visits where we can share, what is cork, what is the effect of cork in the wine, why do we eat this and we don't eat that, or why is that this tradition and we can talk about things and allow people to learn.

For me, learning every day, new things is the best thing we can have. It's the best. Sharing things with visitors more than tourists, are very important. And of course, our gastronomy, it's a very important way to share, things. For instance, since the Neolithic, when we make a stew in our clay pot, we are, We are returning 5, 000 years ago, and that's very important.

There are a lot of things you cannot communicate by words. So to tell you that, , yes, uh, visitors from all over the world. Are very welcome and they're very important in our economy because as nature, we don't want to put all the eggs in the same basket. We want to diversify.

And of course, we are facing a stronger and stronger crisis in Europe and in Portugal. And we need to don't put any, , Let's say, um, opportunity out of our basket.

I love that perspective, visitors versus tourists and people who want to learn. And that's a big part of why I do this as well. I want to come back to the acorn. I know the recipe or the dish that you're going to share with us is talk a little bit about is an acorn stew, but can you talk more about the acorn?


Acorns are, I don't know how to say these, but they are victims of our culture

we, we, we grew up as humans, before, after the Holocene with icons, that was our food. We are talking about America, Eurasia, all the North Hemisphere.

What happened is that well, we had the Bad relation with nature to make it simpler and that the consequence of that was war was not only Lack of resources, but war and we spent here in Europe 3, 000 years the Middle Ages As pirates like people live now in Haiti , and to solve this, the Romans, , bringed the peace and the peace was mainly based on an army and to have an army in that moment, nowadays it's not like this, but you need a tax, instrument to pay the army, to pay the policemen and, it was not easy to start a tax in that moment because there was no resources that was produced in Portugal and go to Rome, that was a new thing.

Taxing the borders was a new, , something that happened later. , there was no consume, so you cannot have the tax that nowadays is the king of the taxes, and the unique thing that you can tax was food, but people. Were, finding their foot on an open supermarket, uh, called Forest. And it was not easy to put, , a tax, on that scenario.

So the Romans, they invented an idea. That the forest was good, not for humans that were divine, but for animals. So you have to clean the forest. That was of course with the soil covert of energy. You clean the forest, you take the forest out, and you have an open field and they tax the open field, not the production.

If you have an open field, you have to pay and then you ha you can produce their food for humans. Cereals. Fruits, starting with the olives, but then other fruits, and then horticulture. So in that moment, we, the dualism between us and the nature was started with the Greek philosophy, but the Romans, they pushed it a lot.

, and until from then on. We were not allowed to eat acorns because acorns were for wild animals, not for food. You have to realize that in that moment, we put it out of our table, out of our dish, all the plants, all the animals that can, that want to grow here in a joyful way. That's very important.

We increase our problems and challenges, as you can imagine. And since then, 2000 years ago, we Occidentals had the same vision and wherever we want, we say, well, these indigenous people in America, They don't know. , they are wild. They are, they are animals. They are not eating what we divine people we eat.

So it's really a very, very important story because then whenever we collapse, we go to nature, but we don't like to say it. Because we think that we are animals. So we don't want to say to the gods that, well, we, I know I had to form myself in a pig to survive. You understand? So there are some things that escape to this, like hunting, and we know why, because of, well, but the, we don't know how to eat.

All the plants, the mushrooms, the fruits, the things that, if you put an exception to fish, wild fish and hunting, this is an absurd reality. Okay. There are a movement all over the planet, especially on the North Hemisphere. It's important to know that the Romans and the Occidentals maybe, I like this idea.

They didn't went to all the cultures, for instance, in the South Korea, National Dist is based on acorn, uh, still. Okay. Acorns are are really, really, um, an important food in terms of nutrition. They are wonderful. They don't have gluten. They have, the lowest, one of the lowest glycemia index.

They have a long chain sugar, so it goes , to the, your blood, uh, very slowly, very good for diabetes. There are, Stretch. It's important to know that the world corn in Anglo-Saxon culture comes from acorn because we started to do everything we should do. We used to do with a acorn. We started to do with with corn.

That's why corn. It's called corn because con in the origin, it's maize. Maize understand nothing to do with corn maze. We have the same, the stretch. I think the, the, I don't stretch. You understand? So the stretch in acorns, that's much better stretch than the stretch of corn. It's a big antioxidant and you tell me, but you can produce more food with cereals.

No, you can produce much more quantity and nutrition with acorns. You have a tree that for 300 years, don't use the soil more. Increase the fertility of the soil protecting, okay? You don't need tubes to irrigation. You need, don't need fertilizers. You don't need to buy anybody. Why are you

not using these or trying to use these, , in a product that is an elitist product. , I like the, I love the ham of Iberican pig, but the ham of Iberican pig is a very expensive. product that you can only eat on, Andalusia and Sevilla. Nobody eats that. The Parma wins the world. So it's not a solution to use the, acorns, I love the story.

There are, you know, the Japanese people, they love the tuna fishes, and there are only three tuna all over the world. And they are, they live in all. But they are, the small tuna that, , grows in the Guadalquivir, where the Guadalquivir reaches the, the Atlantic. They are in the beginning of the Mediterranean.

And these tunas, the Japanese, they buy three times more than the same tunas all over the world. And now we know that , they are completely different because they eat a lot of acorns. The acorns go to the river. They fermentated in the sea and , the, the fishes like the pigs eat it. And, , you have on the acorn the best, , fatty acids that you can find all like olecranon

We are talking really about something that it's important for humans. especially in the north hemisphere where these trees grow, because we have 220 species of quercus, all produce acorn and all of them are edible. Okay, you can tell me that they are bitter, an olive, an olive fruit, it's bitter when , you have To take the tannins out.

That's another story. Really it's, , we believe on the acorn revolution. Somehow that's a cultural revolution that it's also important to understand that, deficient beings in this planet producing organic matter are the trees. Nobody else. And we are not eating from the trees. We only eat from the trees, the vitamins and nothing more.

You have thousands of salads that you can make with leaves of trees. You can have a lot of fruits of trees. Why? Because of efficiency. And we really understood that, efficiency, you cannot, compare the quantity of food that a primarily plant like, Whatever a tomato can produce compared with a tree with the same light.

It's unimaginable. So it's also a movement, acorns are the symbol of a big movement that exists nowadays in this planet, that there are people that are convinced that we should eat trees more than anything. Trees, trees, not wood, but trees produce from the trees.

I'm learning so much. This is fascinating. So now the culinary side of me is going to the acorn. You mentioned an acorn stew when you, when we talked, what does that look like? How do you treat the acorn or what is

Well, we treat the acorns exactly like we treat the potatoes, for instance, we treat the acorns also like we treat the cereals because we do, flours from the acorns so mainly we have two, three ways to use the acorns. One, it's the interior, the, it's like at, , And then from that nut, we can.

Smash it and make a flour or we can roast it like the coffee bean and make something close to the coffee. In the stew, we use the acorns like potatoes, like boiled potatoes. The stew, it's a very interesting meal for us because it's, originally, um, cooked on a clay pot that has a shape of an egg.

And this clay pot, it's an invention of Neolithic that allows us to this for the first time to make a soup and to make it in the fire. And, uh, because it's not easy to put the pot inside of the fire, it's only heated by one side and it creates a vortex inside of the egg, , that can make. Some very special things.

That's another story. What we were traditional, and this is a universal, I say, not universal, but at least planetary, recipe is that we used a little bit of, enzymes of the meat. In the beginning, uh, making, like a bouillon concept, we put some types of different meats, very small quantities, not for flavor, but to open the vegetables that are coming, .

So first you make the bouillon and then you put vegetables. And what are these vegetables? Are always a mix of different things like roots, Potato, turnip, or, other, beetroots, uh, whatever. And then you mix some green leaves like, um, brassicas, uh, different types. And then you can, , you put normally also, , carrots, but also,

well, , leguminosis, , protein, , beans or chickpeas or, , there are these three mix and, we, uh, thought that's somehow an invention of us that in the Neolithic, they must use daikons. We don't, we're not prove that. Because we never found a Neolithic to, to ask him, or, uh, you cannot, you, you find the acorns on the archaeological researches, and we do a lot, but you cannot prove that they were mixing all these ingredients.

But there are, , now a scientific approach that is experimental archaeology, experimental archaeology can, can prove that. Show us a lot of questions, a lot of answers about these things. Mainly, , the stew then was cooked, during all the morning because this is, also a very interesting, meal for working.

We were working on the montado, in groups. Imagine to take, to crop cork, 30 people and everyone brings their own pot from home with their own ingredients, okay? That in my case can be chickpeas, in your case can be the protein, it's another bean or whatever. And you have your pot. So instead of bringing your plastic, I don't know the name there, that you go now to the office.

You bring a clay pot with the ingredients and there was a woman during all the morning that was cooking all the food from everybody that was somehow the cocaina. It was a name and she was preparing the soil to don't burn and taking care of each pot. So there is also a communitarian. And then everybody has their own cozido that can be different every day.

I saw. In my reality, people eating this meal 360 days per year. So what was changing was the type of sausage or the meat or the ingredient, but the recipes were always the same. We are, of course, sure about this connection with the old Neolithic, stages, uh, for different reasons, but I have to confess to you that the ACORN stew, well, what we've done, it's only adding, we still have the potatoes.

Nowadays we have a little bit more meat than originally because people are a lot focused on meat. So we are talking about a mix of, uh, uh, or turkey or, uh, chicken, but also pig, also, veal. And then, , normally this, sometimes lamb, but not, not so often, well, we added some boiled, uh, whole acorns.

That you can all in all these mix, it's very, very well balanced, but, , in terms of acorn, our, we do, a lot of things with icons nowadays. We, for instance, in our meals, we have, I will say that the best products for me that we produce here with acorn, it's the bread and the soup. We make a very good soup.

Then we substitute mainly the potato. Per a acorns bread, it's mainly to have, uh, conventional bread. We mixed 15% of, ACOrN flour. , and we have a wonderful completely different bread, , alantejo style of course with, live ferment, uh, I think you call it dough, is this, and, but we make nowadays fermentated acorns, acorns are wonderful to fermentate, to make fresh, drinks, uh, pasteurized.

You can make thousands of things with acorns, I will say.

Our first. product is the hamburger. The vegan hamburger. It's, we're very proud of this because I also have to confess you have been the first times it was not easy in the people, especially the kids were not happy. And now we look at the satisfaction and we are very proud that they don't Blame us.

I think everybody needs to look further into how we can find acorn flour and utilize acorns. I'm really interested in and seeing what's available here in Vancouver. Alfredo, I can see it's getting nighttime over there. This has just been fascinating. What do you hope people will walk away from if there was one thing that you want people to really remember after listening to this podcast

Our big, let's say inspiration are trees. I will, I love that people, give an opportunity to trees. For instance, in my life, I started to look at trees as nothing. Then as an element of the landscape. Then as, uh, something on, , well, productive. No, trees , are. Much more important.

Trees are the motor of the terrestrial, let's say everything that it's nature that's not happening on the sea and trees are very important. Trees are the feeders of the soil. Uh, there is no soil without trees. We can, we have soils that were, Grown by the wind, but there was a, the origin was on trees.

Not only because of food like acorns or it's much bigger, the importance of trees, , I would love that people. Make this question and really open your heart and your mind to a new, of trees in our life. In general, we need a lot of trees in the cities nowadays because of the climate change because of a lot of things.

We need trees at home. We need trees. Are, , Pacific ethics also. They don't, blame nobody. They are home for a lot of, uh, holsters. Are really, when we cut them and, and it's, I think it's good to cut them, right? They are not museums, but they are always, wanting to answer us, always in the positive way.

So, my propose is that you, uh, rethink your relation with trees because they are probably much more important that we think they are , probably they deserve a completely different, way of our relation to them.

Thank you for sharing that. And if people do want to come and visit you at the Freixo and follow you on Instagram, I'll put it in the show notes as well. But can you just share with us the handle for your Instagram and website?

Yes, Freixo do Meio. Freixo do Meio Freixo connects Freixo do Meio all together. Sometimes Montado do Freixo do Meio. But Freixo do Meio, you go directly to our Instagram, to our Facebook, to our webpage. We have a lot of products. For instance, we organized seven markets here per year.

That's a new innovation. We, don't want to distribute more food. We, spend a lot of years and a lot of energy on that. We respect it, but we, now the people, uh, uh, really wants to help us. And we have the luck that people come to our home to buy things on Sunday markets.

We organize seven per year with a big meal for 300, 400 people with a lot of farmers to sell. Products of food items. We organized visits. We organized the small, uh, also dance. You are very welcome. Not only during the, the week you can email us, you can book a visit directly in our webpage.

Alfredo, thank you for your time. I really appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge. I could do many episodes like this with you. You have an amazing depth of knowledge 

you, Paul. It was a pleasure. And the same with you. It was a pleasure. And I think it's very important that we talk. Talk, it's a magic thing. When we talk, things, some things happen. So, thank you for your invitation, and thank you for your time to look at us. Thank you very much.

My pleasure. 


I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. For such a small country, there is so much history and diversity. I love Portugal. I don't think there is anywhere in the world like it, and I can't wait to go back, especially to the Alentejo region. 

If you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate it if you could like and review it on Apple Podcasts. It goes a long way to help me get my show out there to more culinary adventurers like you. Also, to carry on the conversation, you may like to sign up for our newsletter at InMyKitchen.

ca. I am a small show trying to bridge the gap between visitors and the people and places you travel to, hoping to build a better understanding of each other. I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to In My Kitchen with Paula. Thank you.



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