Women in Customer Success Podcast

[WiCS PowerUp Spotlight] The Customer Success Talent Playbook

• Marija Skobe-Pilley

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March is a special time for celebrating women who lead. So what better time to spotlight six extraordinary women who not only lead in Customer Success, but also wrote a book on it! Literally.

Welcome to the WiCS PowerUp Spotlight featuring the co-authors of The Customer Success Talent Playbook, a first-of-its-kind guide to CS hiring, careers, and team building.

Meet the women behind it:

✨ Ejieme Eromosele, VP of Customer Growth Quiq

✨ Swati Garg, CEO Melo Associates

✨ Parul Bhandari, CEO CustomerXSuccess

✨ Elizabeth Blass 🌻, Chief Customer Officer Karbon

✨ Kristen Hayer, CEO The Success League

✨ Julie Fox, Director of Digital CS Hyland


Six women. Six perspectives. One powerful playbook.

You'll hear ALL about:

  • The story behind writing the book together
  • CS hiring mistakes & hard-won lessons
  • Salary frameworks & career progression
  • Building sustainable, intentional CS teams
  • Empowering yourself as a CS professional
  • Community, mentorship & what's next

Whether you're a CS leader, a job seeker, or breaking into Customer Success — grab your seat.


👉 Follow Ejieme: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ejieme/

👉 Follow Swati: https://www.linkedin.com/in/swatigargmhrir/

👉 Follow Parul: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parul-bhandari-1294488/

👉 Follow Elizabeth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethblass/

👉 Follow Kristen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenhayer/

👉 Follow Julie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-fox-1b05395a/

👉 Learn more about The Customer Success Talent Playbook (& grab your copy of the book): https://www.cstalentplaybook.com/

👉 Follow our host Marija on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mspilley/


__________________________________________________
About Women in Customer Success Podcast:

Women in Customer Success Podcast is the first women-only podcast for Customer Success professionals, where remarkable ladies of Customer Success connect, inspire and champion each other. 


Follow:

Women in Customer Success 

Host Marija Skobe-Pilley

Check out our Courses:

  • The Revenue CSM  - https://womenincs.co/the-revenue-csm



Welcome And What’s At Stake

SPEAKER_00

Hi everyone, this is Maria Skobe-Pillet, and you're listening to Women in Customer Success podcast, the first women-only podcast where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place. So let's tune in.

Meet The Authors And Sections

SPEAKER_01

My name is Maria, and I'm your host today. And I'm really excited to present a panel of gorgeous women today. They all are special, they all are experts in customer success. They all bring loads of varied background and experience in the industry. And they also are book authors because recently they published a book called Customer Success Talent Playbooks. And I'm super excited to speak about that book today, to understand what happened, what was the idea behind the book? How did they all write together? How did they even do it in terms of getting to go on calls together? What was the scheduling like? There are so many things that we want to talk about today, but most importantly, we really want to bring to light some of the challenges that customer success leaders are facing today. So thank you to all who are following us today, who are listening live, or even if you're listening to the recording at some point in the future. This is Power Up Spotlight, and I'm really excited to introduce the panel today. So, ladies, as you introduce yourself, I would like you to tell us, of course, your name, what do you do, but also why are you the expert in your section of the book? Like what makes you uniquely positioned to write that part? And then we'll go into the details of what was the content of it. And I will be going through schedule based on what I see on my screen. So, Parol, let's start from you.

SPEAKER_07

Hi everyone, my name is Parl Bandari, and I wrote section two of the Customer Success Talent playbook. My day job is that I'm a fractional customer success executive and I help scaling teams. But why I was so passionate about this section, and the section is focused on titles and setting expectations for roles. Why I was so passionate about it is actually rooted in a previous career I had, which was as an HR business partner at a large CPG firm, where I really learned about the importance of title and salary and how it impacts longevity in a person's role. So when Swati had the opportunity to write this book, I thought this would just be a great section to provide some insight on and also share with the community.

SPEAKER_01

Wonderful. It's great to have you here, Paul. Next one, EME.

SPEAKER_03

Hi everyone, and thanks, Mia, for having us on. I'm Aja May Aramaselli, and I wrote the section on fit. I'll get into that in a second. But uh by day, I run customer growth, so retention and expansion for a company called QIC. We support enterprises that deliver AI agents for customer service and customer experience. And I'm also the founder of Success in Black, which is a community to advocate for diversity, equity, inclusion, and customer success, and specifically helping Black talent achieve CS roles and grow in their roles. So the section on fit was, you know, really important to me. I'm an immigrant to the US, I'm a Black woman, you know, we all have varying degrees and dimensions of diversity. And it was really important to highlight how, as customer success, our function is a blend of heart and head, and people are at the center of it. And so creating inclusive teams, we all know they perform better. So really helping leaders and candidates position fit as a differentiator and as a value add. So I'm really excited that we were able to put those ideas uh into the book form and excited to share that with the world.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_06

Next one, Swati. Hi, how are you? Thanks so much for having me today. We are so excited. I'm Swati Garg. Nice to meet you, everyone. I wrote section one of the Customer Success Talent Playbook on recruiting and job search. Um, I'm the CEO of Milo Associates. We are a recruiting or a talent firm focused in all revenue, but really where we started and what we're known for is post-sales and customer success recruitment. Um, and that's where our expertise lies. So we've been doing this for about a decade, and that's where we started. So I've really gotten to know the role and the growth and the evolution of the function. And really, that's why I feel like, you know, I I was am one of the experts to write my section and feel really good about it. I also am the co-founder of Cusp, a Chicago customer success community here with over 400 members and growing. So really love building community and just really getting to know everyone and really, really excited to be here today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

Great to have you here, Swati. Next one, let's introduce Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_04

Hello. Thanks for having us. Elizabeth Blass here. I am uh chief customer officer for a company called Carbon. Um I'm also based in Chicago. And my section is all about career progression. And I was just the most, I guess the luckiest that I grew up in my career with incredible mentors and sponsors, many of them who were women, just the most incredible women. And I've always been really passionate about finding your path and working your way up. And this section of the book is all about how you can best do that. And I do a lot of mentoring as well as often as I can, helping people navigate their careers. And at this point in my career, I think I I have a lot to say about career progression, and I'm looking forward to the conversation today.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you for being here. Absolutely had a wonderful career trajectory so far. Looking forward to more insights. Next one, Kristen.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, thank you so much for making this a reality. We're so excited to be here. My name is Kristen Hare. I'm the founder and CEO of the Success League. We're a customer success and go-to-market training and consulting firm. And so my part of the book was really on training. I think training unfortunately gets looked at as a little bit of an afterthought for hiring. And it's really something that should just be an extension of the hiring process. And so I got to write that part of the book. Um, the Success League has been training in our field for about a decade at this point. And um, prior to starting the Success League, I was a customer success and sales executive who had teams to train. And a lot of what I learned from trying to train teams without a whole lot of budget and, you know, sometimes with no budget went into my chapters in the book that really talk about, you know, how can you make sure that your people are effectively trained and brought up to speed when sometimes you don't have a whole lot of budget or money to work with. And so we get into a lot of that. And also how if you are a CS professional, you can take ownership of your own education.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Kristen. I'm very much looking forward to hearing more about that. And last but not least, Julie.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. Hi, I'm Julie Fox, and I lead digital and scaled customer success at Highland, where I'm focused on building programs that support thousands of customers while still driving meaningful outcomes like retention, adoption, and growth. Over the course of my career, I have led customer success orgs across both high-touch enterprise models and scaled environments, managing portfolios ranging from millions to billions in ARR. And I've also built global teams and programs that support thousands of customers at scale, which has given me a real perspective on what it takes to grow, both as a team, but also as an individual within it. And what's been just as important in my own journey is how much networking, community, and personal brand has shaped my career. Many of my biggest opportunities that I've had, whether it's leadership roles, uh partnerships, or even writing this book, have come through relationships in the communities that I've been a part of. So my chapter focuses or my section focuses on exactly that community networking and your brand, not just as a side conversation, but as a core driver of career growth and customer success.

Why The Book Had To Exist

SPEAKER_01

100%. I can agree to that. Speaking of in the last few years or since we started Women in Customer Success podcast, I do believe that I have spoken to each of you in a separate episode. So for everybody listening, if you want to get to know each of these remarkable women even better, feel free to tune into that episode. A part of Elizabeth, because once she said, Oh, you know, Maria, I am, you know, I'm part of many different communities. I am active, but I am trying to avoid podcast appearances. So at some point, I think that we made a deal, Elizabeth, that that will stop, that you will come on a podcast. At some point, of course, no pressure at all. But I'm super happy to have you all here today because this is kind of podcast, but not 100%. Anyway, super happy to hear from all of you today. Now, as I mentioned, many of you, or all of you actually, are involved in so many different types of communities for customer success, for customer experience, different networks, different, absolutely everything that is out there that is helping you be in touch with the current trends, be in touch with the industry, network, build your brand, as you said, Julie. But then on top of all of it, a book came into existence, and that is a process. So I really wonder to start with, firstly, what was the even idea behind the book? Like how did it all start? Where is the idea coming from? Because all of you have already been involved in so many different ways in thought leadership. And Swati, I would like to start with you. What happened?

SPEAKER_06

Thank you. I think it was just, you know, there was a lot of books coming out, and I didn't feel like a lot of any of the books were really focused on the talent piece. And I had all these different topics in mind that I wanted to talk about, but I really didn't want to do it alone. And so um writing a book is as you'll we'll talk about today, is a big process. And I also think that it's important to have different voices and different expertise. I have this external like talent lens, but I wanted internal practitioners as well. So I first call was Farl. I called her and and we talked about it and she was interested. And then um I knew who I kind of wanted for the who I wanted to invite for the other sections, and everyone's here today. They all said yes when we got on our first call within a week, and it was really exciting. It's we worked very diligently, and it took us about 22 months to kind of get this out the door. And like I said, we're really proud of it. And I will say that for the next decade. I mean, I think we put so much love and energy into this book, and I was beyond just thrilled and just so appreciative of how much energy every single person put into this book. And we all didn't know each other super well either. So there was a lot of trust, and a lot of it was me just inviting people because I've seen them through the community, or I've met them, or I was really impressed with what they were doing, and it all worked out really well.

SPEAKER_01

Parul, what was your experience? So you were the second person, or actually the first person at Swati shared the idea of would you like to be a co-author? What made you say yes?

SPEAKER_07

It was interesting. So I think all of us, maybe, and I think we've talked about this. We, you know, I always thought writing a business book was something I wanted to do, but having to do it alone was a bit daunting, honestly. And so when Swati and I were chatting, I think we were chatting about writing some ebooks, you know, something that was easy to distribute and complete. And then we started talking about it like, why can't we just do the book? Right. And when what I was really attracted to is one, having thought leadership, but also companionship in the journey. And I will say honestly, I think we needed each other, right? I think having editors, having co-editors, I've talked about this with you, Maria, like having people to really have your back throughout this process, work together, it made this much more of a rich experience, personally.

Writing Together And Feeling Exposed

SPEAKER_01

I love that companionship. Long time ago, when I was studying, I remember my professor always saying writing is thinking. I would even say, you know, talking is thinking. Even when you have any idea and you're sharing within a group, that is becoming the actual thought process. And I'm so glad that you did it together and brought so much wisdom for all of us today. Um, Elizabeth, I remember once you mentioned, oh, it was it was like, you know, submitting your paper in school for grading because you're not only writing for yourself and audience, but for for experts in the room. So how was it really being that vulnerable to present your ideas to you know very small, close circle of other experts that in a way would be judging it and maybe editing and and providing additional thoughts and ideas?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, you're bringing back some of the anxiety, just thinking about it. I mean, we yeah, I I didn't know all of these incredible women um very well when we started. And so it is a very vulnerable position to be in, you know, going through and we we all spent a lot of time writing our sections. And so when we got to that moment of editing one another, and you know, we kind of started by doing the section, I think before hours and after ours for flow. And then and then ultimately, you know, we we read everyone's sections multiple times. And and I know the the first time that we kind of said, okay, we're gonna read each other's, I uh I just kept checking, you know, like late at night, early in the morning. Did anyone read it? Did anyone have comments? Did they, you know, tell me to start over? Of course that wasn't the case, but just that moment of what are they going to think? These are women that I highly respect, value their opinions. Um, they've had such great experiences. And um it's just funny how instantly vulnerable you can feel when you're sharing something that you've, you know, kind of poured your heart out onto the page, and then you you wait for um input. And we all had incredible, I think, input for one another, I mean, in a supportive way. But it was, yeah, it was very there was anxiety involved for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Anxiety. But I'm just thinking for all the all the ladies who are potentially experiencing imposter syndrome and they're listening, yeah, it happens to the best as well. Even when you are kind of approached and selected as an expert to write on the topic that you are highly familiar with, you can still feel like that, oh, I'm vulnerable. What will they say? But I'm so glad that you all went through the process. Julie, what about you? Your initial experience.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So getting to know this group of people, I think was really incredible. Just having the opportunity to get to know them on a much deeper level. For me, writing my section was very therapeutic almost. Um, I had a really unique experience where I rewrote most of my section because I was actually going through my own job search. So originally when I wrote everything, it was much more conceptual, much more focused on what I believed about networking, community, and personal brand. But when you're actively navigating a transition, those things become very real very quickly. And I think that's what I went back and kind of rewrote certain areas because I wanted to make sure that the content that I was writing would resonate with the audience that is going through these different experiences. So I found myself leaning heavily on my own network, having conversations, asking for advice, getting introduced to opportunities. So I went back, rewrote those parts of the chapter based on those experiences. And I think that was something that was really welcomed by this group for me to, if anything, I was the last one to get everything done. But it was because I wanted to make sure that what I was writing would resonate, would pull in all of that. And so being able to have everybody go back and reread my sections, I really appreciated kind of the advice, the support that they provided.

SPEAKER_01

And I wonder in that whole writing process and getting more familiar with each other, Jume, what would you say? How did the writing process impact the relationship that all six of you had throughout the years and throughout that kind of year-long process of writing?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I think writing in general uh exposes inner thoughts in a really raw way. And, you know, we all have excellent careers, excellent experience for all thought leaders. And so I think long form writing, though, is really interesting, right? Because I've done a lot of LinkedIn posting, I've done some article writing. I actually used to be on Kristen's advisory board for the Success Week. And so that felt natural and normal, but actually having to do longer form thought and codifying that thought into frameworks and into teaching, which is ultimately, I think, what we're doing, is a different skill and muscle to flex. And uh, I know Powell has written books, children's books, but this is for adult consumption, right? So I think for all of us, it really pushed us and stretched us in this new way to articulate our experience, our thoughts, our perspectives and point of views into ways that you know our colleagues, our peers can consume it. So it definitely helps stretch me in terms of, you know, I have a lot of thoughts. We all have a lot of thoughts in our head, but how do we put it down? How do we articulate it and communicate it effectively so that people understand what we're trying to say?

Training As The Real Hiring Plan

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. I think it's it's about time to go really deep into the book, what is written and what are the main takeaways? So, Kristen, maybe I ask you to start with telling us more about your main takeaways from your section. You already gave us a little bit of a preview. Tell us about your section, main takeaways. What is the main thing that you want the audience to take away from?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, two takeaways. If you are a CS professional, not a people leader, you own your career path and education. And education is a big part of that. You are never, I I almost hate to say this because I have a company that certifies CSMs, but you're never done. You just because you got certified as a CSM does not mean that you get to stop learning about CS. So you have to keep growing yourself. You have to embrace continual learning and you have to own what it's going to take to get to the next level if you want to progress your career. Elizabeth's section of the book is really useful for that because I think she really outlines the skills that it takes to go from one level to the next level to the next level. But to get there, you need training, you need coaching, you need to ask your boss for that. You need to make sure that you ask your company for it. If your company isn't willing to give you training, you need to go out and get it on your own. You need to own it. Don't expect some company to just come along and bless you with education. If you are a leader and you're listening to this, this is the other takeaway. You need to consider training a part of hiring, not some nice to have. It should be budgeted for, it should be planned for, it should be a very planned pathway when you're onboarding a new person, but also it should be something that's being delivered regularly to all of your team. Again, nobody should sort of say, oh, I'm done learning, I'm an expert now. I mean, I'm an expert at CS and I'm not, I'm not done learning. I still read, I still try to educate myself and learn new things. And so everyone needs to be taking that approach and attitude. So if you're a leader, you own that, not just for yourself, but for your whole team. So those are my two big takeaways. The chapter is very practical. I have been in the trenches as a CS leader, as a sales leader, and I know that you have to train your team. And I've tried all of the ways of doing that. And so the two chapters I wrote are really about how do you plan that out and create a really comprehensive training program for your group in a very practical way.

SPEAKER_01

I'm really glad that you are you're talking about it because very often I think that we are realizing how there is no a lot of customer success trainings within the companies simply because. Because all the budget goes into sales training, of course, and then we are getting the crumbles from the table very often. So I'm glad that you are really positioning CS leaders as people who have responsibility and should fight for different types of trainings for their teams. Because absolutely you're right, it is never-ending process. It is a continuous journey. Even when I speak with leaders recently and they say, Oh, now I want to learn more about AI. Perfect. Tomorrow, next year, there will be something else. We are never done, and we have to consistently push ourselves to learn new skills, new trends, and also be an example to the teams. Great takeaway, Kristen. I like it very much when you say we all kind of own our own career progression by getting ourselves trained. I just remember somebody asking me at some point, oh, when do you need to go for training? Like, do you do it during the working hours or after? I don't know, it's it's maybe debatable. Kristen, what what is your thought on that? Like, do you do training during working hours or should people do it or should they do it anywhere?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I think it's a part of your job. So I would say yes, it should happen during working hours and you should carve out time for it. However, if your company doesn't allow for that, and unfortunately, I think in the US, a lot of companies don't leave time for that. You have to make time for it. You can't neglect it just because the company you happen to be working for right now doesn't offer it. You still need to learn. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And if you want to progress in your life, I mean, it doesn't matter if it's five o'clock or nine o'clock at the evening. That's right. Learning has to happen if you are really interested. Wonderful. Julie, there was already a question or or a comment in the chat that somebody is currently on the on the job search. Would you like to tell us more about that experience that you are describing in the book? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05

And I I cover this in the book, and this may be a little bit of a hot take, but honestly, I believe that applying for jobs is one of the least effective ways to grow your career. The best opportunities don't just come from job boards, they come from relationships, community, and how you've shown up over time. So my section is really about kind of taking that control back, building your network before you need it, being visible in the right spaces, creating opportunities instead of kind of just waiting for them. And for the hiring managers, it's also about kind of that shift is just as important. So the best talent talent isn't always applying. They're already engaged in communities, they're choosing where they want to go. And so for hiring managers, you shouldn't just be evaluating talent. You should be actively present where the best talent is, building a reputation as someone that people want to work with. And so really kind of again taking back control of your career path by being able to share your own story beyond the confines of a resume.

SPEAKER_01

Julie, I need to share one of my frustrations because I have you here already. AI in hiring, but more specifically, AI in the interviews or or tasks and scenarios. I think I was writing recently about it because every single candidate comes with the same, very same clothed presentation, not even branded to the company. And I am uh yeah, I start asking very bad and hard questions. What is your thoughts on like what's happening currently with AI?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I think that AI absolutely should be used in interview processes. It should be used as something that helps you to organize your thoughts, especially if you're going through a lot of interviews. It's a great place to take your notes and be able to better organize and understand and assess different roles, but also use that to craft what should feel more personalized in terms of what are the types of questions that you can anticipate, using that to help you go back and forth and prepare for interviews, help you with follow-up. I think that there's a lot that you can do in terms of AI for researching, for things like that. Well, I do not by any means that you should be copying and pasting answers. A lot of companies do, they have different prompts or different things that they want you to respond to. It is very, very obvious when you are creating a more generic AI forward response. And so making sure that if anything, you're using it as a way to refine your thoughts, not to take AI's thoughts and then just send it across. So I think there's a balance there. But truly in my own interview processes, I leaned heavily on AI. It was something that helped me to be able to do much deeper research than I've ever done before and craft not just follow-ups, but create things like a 3060-90, a um, hey, here's what I would do. Basically go beyond what they're asking for and not just send a generic follow-up and say, hey, I also attached this and be able to use that. Now, again, I'm not just using what AI created, but it allowed me to create things that were much deeper, more meaningful, because I I had a lot more insights that I was able to pull from AI.

SPEAKER_01

I think this is such a valid point, especially now when everybody can obviously see in a second how AI has been used. You know, perhaps sometimes it can also showcase people being, you know, maybe lazy. I think it is even more prominent to say to the interview, I did my research here, but I also spoke with you know XYZ from the community. I think today, especially this will be so much more valuable when you showcase that you had conversation with a real person, and there are many, many customer successful community who are typically willing to help out and have a quick call before someone's interview. And I would like to go even deeper in that community. And I believe, Elizabeth, it was your part of the book. What does customer success community in general mean for you and how did it shape your career?

SPEAKER_04

It's actually Julie's section, but I can say a few words about that. And I and I do it, maybe I'll say one more thing about the AI and kind of interviewing. And Julie, maybe I will kick it back over to you just because I I love to hear you talk about community. I love RCS uh various communities as well, game changing in my career and the way that I run my team. But one more thing on the AI, I just want to um, because it sounds like in the chat there are people that are looking. I think I always assume the way someone has used AI to prepare for an interview is similar to the way that they would leverage AI to prepare for a customer meeting. And so if it's, as you say, lazy or just hasn't actually made it a more insightful conversation, um, I'm forming conclusions about that too. And so I just I think it's really important to combine your expertise with some of the the insights that AI can uncover because it's that human, it's that human touch layered on top that's going to make the um it's going to differentiate you from another candidate. But Julie, I'll kick it back over to you for the community comment.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no problem. So community, there are so many different types and forms of communities. There's local communities where you have local beatups, there are virtual communities, there are industry specific and things like that. But I think it's really for me, I've immersed myself in a number of different communities because I also need different things at different times. So especially earlier in my leadership career, I leaned a lot into communities where I was able to get to know people in a much deeper, more meaningful way. And that sometimes even translated to like being a part of a training cohort or something like that, where you get to know a small group of people. Anytime I'm joining an event, even attending a webinar, things like that, engaging with the people that you're meeting. So it's it's not just connecting with them on LinkedIn, but it's actually starting conversations, asking questions, asking for time. I have been blown away by the CS community and how much people are willing to hop on a call, answer questions, talk through things. And that's something that's really important to me in my career. I would not be where I am if I had not had so many people that had said yes to me and had given back. And so that's now my way of kind of paying it forward of if people reach out to me and they have questions, I will take time to meet with them. Maybe I'm not always responsive immediately or it may take take an extra nudge, but I do really try to do that because I know that that's how we grow as a community and we all level each other up. And that's something I've really enjoyed about customer success in general. When I was in a sales career, I never would have gone to essentially a competitor and said, Hey, how are you so good at what you do? Tell me about what's working and what's not. In CS, that's like pretty normal for people to say, Hey, tell, let me learn from you, let me understand what you guys are doing. And and so that's something where, again, there's communities that are there, but truly, as with so much in life, it's about what you put in and how you give back. The more that you give into the community, the more that you pour yourself into that and show up, the more that people are willing to show up for you.

Fit As A Tool For Inclusion

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's really a wonderful take. And I I do believe that we all on a call have experienced uh how warm is customer success community and how many different sorts of communities are there that we can lean in in different uh different stages of our lives. But certainly speaking about community, the best way to reach out to any of the amazing women today is on LinkedIn. So make sure that you connect with them and say hi. Ijime, I would like us to go a bit deeper into your hot takes and your kind of book section. What is it that you would want the audience to remember? Or why would they go today and get a book and read your section?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I don't know if I have hot takes. I have maybe mild or lukewarm takes. Um but as I yeah, as I started, uh my section is on fit, and the goal is to help candidates and hiring managers find the best roles and find the best hires for where they are in terms of maturity, the product that they sell and to whom. Um, and I think maybe the the lukewarm take is that you know, fit has I, in my experience, been used to keep people out. Um, you know, when the question is often asked, that you know, the underlying thought is how do we have this person conform to what we already have? Or how do we have this person feel, sound, and look familiar? And so I think we should stop asking, will this person fit in and start asking, what will this person bring to the table that we may not already have? How can we elevate what we're doing with different perspectives and different experience? And so I think for candidates, you know, knowing your unique value proposition and walking into every interview ready to show not just what you've done, but how you'll help the company improve, hitting their goals. That's really your edge. I think for hiring managers, you know, before you post a single job description, do you have a good sense of based on the specific job to be done, your team maturity and your company values, what type of person would really be successful in that role? Because if you don't define what right looks like, then you're gonna default to what's familiar. And that may not be the best bet. So that's what I would implore folks, and that's what the uh topics in my section cover. So I've developed a framework that both again candidates and hiring managers can use to evaluate those three dimensions of fit. It's the specific role, the jobs to be done, it's the team maturity. Are we talking about, you know, your CSM one or CS Leader one? Or are we talking about, you know, a very large thousand-person CS team? Those require very different skills and very different types of people. And then finally, the highest level, the company. What are your values? What does good look like for the company level? And tied to that, what type of customers are you serving? What is your product? So yeah, I think if if folks are interested in helping, honestly, going back to the AI conversation, differentiate themselves, I think hiring managers and candidates, you know, what is your special sauce? Like we all have many different things that we bring to the table. If anything, not using AI so much can actually help you look different these days. Who would have thought, right? Because if I see another M-dash, I'm gonna like close my laptop. So, how do you make sure that you are bringing your perspective and your individuality, your unique value to those conversations?

SPEAKER_01

I love that so much. One of the things I I would always think about customer success and almost being proud of it is how we are so diverse in terms of everybody's background. Like kind of the the more diverse background you've got, the better candidate you will be for customer success, especially if you had multiple different roles. And I don't know if you you heard it from people you typically work with at GM, if they are asking candidates mostly, oh, is this background okay for me? You know, uh, how can I position myself if I come from you know sales or consulting background, whatever? I feel it's it's just amazing. And we we want that, we want to embrace it. For Dioris, I really wonder, can you just give us a very, very brief takeaway on that difference? Whether you are CSM number three or number 20 joining the company, like how can you still present yourself in all the uniqueness that you have?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so you know, I really think it depends on what is the company, what do you sell, what are the services that the company provides. In my community, Success in Black, we have many, let's say, teachers or educators that want to get into CS. And my first advice is there are tons of software and solutions that teachers use. In your days as a teacher, what softwares did you use? And they listed 10. Okay, that should be where you start because you're uniquely positioned to go and say, I actually use this tool, I actually know what it means to be a teacher in the classroom using this software. You're gonna be the best CSM, right? So really focusing in on where are you different and how is that a superpower for you? Because if I had to apply for that role, I've never been a teacher. My dad's a teacher, so I love teachers, but I've never been in the classroom. So I really don't know what that's like, right? So lean in on how you're different and find those organizations that will overvalue that that skill set and that experience.

SPEAKER_01

Moving on to Elizabeth and your section, it's all about the commercials. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so the section of the book, uh, the career progression section, and and Kristen talked about this a little bit. The training is such a key component, but it really walks through for every level of role, really, in customer success and individual contributor roles as well. It tells you the skills and abilities you need for that role, the skills you can expect to learn while on the job, and then the skills that you need to develop to get to that next level. And so I think it's it's really important, again, as as Kristen said, to own that path. And so if you um are from an employee perspective, always having an eye on, you know, what are your goals? Where are you trying to get to? What are you doing during work hours and on your off time to prepare for the next role? And if you're in leadership, making sure that you are taking the time to create those career paths for your employees. And it's in the book, right? So if you if you don't have a lot of time, it's okay. You know, I've I've done that work for you. You've got all of the career progression plans, and you can take that, modify it. So it makes sense for your organization, but a lot of that work is done. And so there's there's really uh no excuse, you know, not to have that for your employees and for your own career as well. So I think that's a really important component as well. And one of the things that that I talk about in the section is about owning commercials. That's not even new for CS anymore. We've been talking about it a really long time. And so um, I think get in there and and you know, learn everything that you can if you haven't done it before, you know, find a mentor, that kind of thing, but also just get comfortable with um owning commercials and understanding how that, when you have that responsibility, how that changes your conversation and um the insights that you gather before those customer meetings. So it's it's not even not a hot take. It's not new, but it's something that still is coming up in conversation and it is part of the role in CS. And so if you're dragging your feet on that, jump in because um that's absolutely a must-have for any CS role in this in in 2026 and beyond.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely wonderful call to action for everyone. Just check your CVs because you have to have also numbers, and hopefully you have done some commercials and and you have evidence to prove that. Next, Parul. I mean, we're kind of switching gears constantly because there is so many different topics that you discussed in the book, uh, so many amazing takeaways. But this one is for me particularly interesting. Parol, you spoke about the the titles and in the whole world of customer success and how we give them titles from different levels to different names. You did learn particular lessons. Tell us more.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, so I um I alluded to a previous career in HR, but that didn't give me the best insight when I started a customer success, which was a little over 10 years ago. Many of us who started back then, you were navigating a world with very little information, little social media, little, you know, written knowledge. So when my company at that time said, Hey, I think your title should be customer success manager, I was like, sounds good. And lo and behold, I was the leader of the team setting up the team. But we thought, oh, manager is in the title. That sounds logical. The story that I tell in the book is uh really about me, but it's also about the team that I led, right? By titling myself incorrectly, we also type titled my team incorrectly, right? So we were calling people by roles that were not actually showcasing the work that they did. And even though titles I tell people are not like this topic that is so attractive to talk about, it is something that really sets up your career trajectory and your future potential, right? Because what people see unfortunately on that CV, that resume, that LinkedIn is what did you do before? And do you have the skills to do the next thing? So when I finally got the manager title, uh manager of CS, which is which was like two years later, then we had to retitle my team. My team had to be re- had actually to be their costs and their payments or salary structure had to be redone. So it cost them two years of uh progression, but it also ended up costing the company in figuring out how to retain these employees. So I think titling, although it seems like, you know, something that maybe we can just slap something on and it's gonna be okay. I think it's actually one of the most serious things for our function to succeed. And you we all know this AI is is changing titles so rapidly. Like we wrote this book, you know, nearly two years ago, and now there are new titles in the mix. So Swathi and I actually simultaneously are looking into helping the function actually start doing some standardization early on these new titles. We don't have to fix every single one, but let's get some consensus because if we don't, if we don't, and as Kristen put it, we're just creative with titles, we're gonna start to create roles and people that don't actually have skill set that can be matched, take it one level further. Your data, your AI tools that you're gonna use for recruiting aren't gonna actually be able to find the right candidates. So I think titles go really deep. And that's really why I was so passionate about talking about it. And then for everyone here, like with title comes salary, right? And that's also drastically changed a lot in CS. So I think when you are out there looking at jobs, if you're a job seeker or if you're an employee, you know, understanding are do the roles really match the work that you do? And and then are you salaried correctly? I think helps you um stand out and also build your career better.

SPEAKER_01

Kristen, I love your comment. Don't get too creative with titles. Uh, do you have any interesting story to tell about any creative titles? Or maybe um maybe you tell us, you know, on on the theme of titling, what was some of your most expensive hiring mistakes? We heard from Parel. Potentially it can cost people's careers like a few years. Did you have any any interesting story of hiring mistakes? Oh, me? Yes. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I have I have had hiring mistakes. My my my most costly hiring mistake was not around title. It was around hiring a person and then realizing pretty quickly that she was nothing like what I thought I had hired, and then not getting rid of that person immediately. Actually, almost got stuck with that person long term. I was very lucky that I had an HR person who stepped in and was like, hey, Kristen, we need to make a decision within 30 days, or we are going to have a big problem. And so I was like, okay, decision made. So, like I got lucky. That was probably my worst hiring mistake. It was just somebody who was very good at interviewing and not great in actuality. Titling wise, though, we see this. The reason I'm so I'm so passionate about Pearl's topic. Is because, you know, we see this all the time in the consulting practice that we have, where people are trying, you know, customer success is, I guess, relatively new as a field, right? And so people kind of try to get creative with it. And they're like, oh, this is the customer-facing team. We want it to feel fun and friendly. And then they do things like happiness team or, you know, chief chief happiness officer. And you're just like, are you kidding me? You're undermining everything we stand for. Like, this is not a happiness team. This is a value team. I just want to echo everything Pearl said. It's so important to get that right.

SPEAKER_01

So that's awesome. So let's fire all the chief happiness roles or titles out there. I would sign up for that. But speaking about hiring people, recruiting, I think we get to the one of the main experts. Swati, back to your section. What are some of the main takeaways and messages that you would want us all to take from it?

SPEAKER_06

I think the really, you know, section really is divided between recruiting and like job search, right? Like really the main elements of it. So when I think about like recruiting, really it's a step-by-step process to make sure that companies are giving a very positive experience to candidates and hiring the right people along the way. So I would say the biggest takeaway of my section of the book of the hiring part, I should say, well, I'm trying to get really granular, of the hiring part of section one is um really how to create a positive experience for your candidates and to make sure that when they leave your company, whether they get the job or not, they will talk highly about your company and your and your reputation. And you know, they won't be like, hey, I didn't get the job, but I would apply again or I would recommend a friend, right? Like I think that's really, really important. And and really in that section, we really go down deep into like how to step by step do that on the hiring part. And I would say on the job search part, um, I always say this when I talk to candidates, I will say, bring your A game. And what that means, that's like, you know, I feel like a lot of recruiters have their own little, have the little saying. My saying is bring your A game. And what I mean by that is make sure that you are, you know, really researching every, every interview, um, bringing, preparing a lot, making sure that you know like the entire process and you're just really invested in your interview process. And that's really what the book lays out, right? How to advocate for yourself and how to really go step by step in making sure that you're bringing, you're putting your best foot forward and hopefully the company is too. Um, and that's really what the entire section one is about and what I hope that people get out of it. I hope it's really practical and useful and kind of shows like all the nuances that that um, you know, CS can have. But I think what we've done as a whole really well is really create these amazing fundamentals of the book that can be used, you know, long after all of these things are changing. Like AI is changing so things so quickly. Our function is relatively young and there's so much change even in the last five years, and there's gonna be so much change in the next five years. But I think we've created a book that has really strong fundamentals.

Building Sustainable CS Teams

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And thank you for reiterating some of the ideas of how can candidates stand out in in the job market of 2026 that looks very different than a few years ago. I was just thinking how I went ahead of myself because I just gave us one hour for webinar, and we can probably speak for six hours about the different topics around the book, around building teams, etc. For the audience, please feel free if you still have any questions, put them in the chat so we can we can try to respond. Uh, but I would definitely like to address one of the questions that came in through the registrations, and it's about building sustainable customer success teams. Uh, so how does intentionally building sustainable teams look like in practice? And kind of what is the most common mistake that leaders do? Jime, I would like you to take us through it building sustainable CS teams.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, sustainable is a is an interesting adjective there. When I think of sustainability, I think of, I call it my own professional paranoia of how do I make sure that I'm delivering, you know, undeniable value to the business, right? And so when I think of what's been going on in CS and being more commercial focused, you know, I definitely think that that's one um way that we need to think intentionally about it. But like how do you actually, you know, do that? I think it starts by understanding the mechanics and the fundamentals of your business, so the company that you work for, and how does your how do your customers derive value from that? I mean, I think that that is the core as it relates to then building teams and finding the right talent to fill those roles so they can deliver that promise or be, let me say, one of the teams that delivers that promise. That promise should be delivered across every function uh in different ways. But as CS, we are the ones that are primarily interacting with the customers. And so we're often the first line of defense, or I like to say the first line of opportunity to deliver that. So, you know, we really need to start thinking about what are the specific skills, what are the specific aspects of the role, the team that you're building, and again, back to maturity, but also the product or the service that you're serving to your customers. You know, I think especially at early stages and when you have to build from scratch, it's fundamentally different than when you are in a scaled motion. And you probably will need to have people that are more flexible in terms of their ability to wear multiple hats. You know, I've had to build CS Teams or the CSM with everything from almost a UX and conversational designer to you know a project manager to a technical customer service rep, right, across the gamut. And so you really need to think about how your maturity and the product you deliver impacts how you're going to be delivering that value. And I mean, for hiring managers in particular, it's getting clear on that before you start interviewing, as you're writing the job description, as you're thinking about the titles and creating that structure. Intentionality really comes a long way here. And I think now more than ever, you know, there's a big question of is AI gonna take all of our jobs? You know, I think some aspects, hopefully, right? Like that's the benefit. It's gonna make us more efficient. I think the effective part of what we do still relies in the human touch. And so these hires are now more important than ever. Like we can't continue making those mistakes. Every new person we bring on the team is gonna have outsized value, hopefully, for the business.

What’s Next And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01

I need to admit, I'm really looking forward to that whole new concept of everything that we do has to have much, much, much more and greater value than what we did so far because there is so much that AI and other technologies can do instead of us. And it's it's just a wonderful reminder how valuable customer success methodologies and functions and customer success teams are for the organization to drive the revenue and growth. And ladies, I am so grateful that you graced us with your presence today. We managed to just scratch the surface of the book to understand what are the different sections, what are the main takeaways, why should we go get a book, start reading? But I wonder what is next because I don't want to see that book only as a one book. I want to see many more next initiatives coming up from you. Uh and I know that you already have some of it in store. So what is next? How can people connect with you and really deepen these conversations?

SPEAKER_07

Our website is our home for a lot of things, including how to join us by becoming a part of our community. We have a newsletter. It's not a big time in your face spammy newsletter, but we do put out um thought leadership from all of our author team. We have opportunities to speak, um, connect. We work with teams, small, you know, small um engagements as well as larger engagements, but really helping to enable leaders or, you know, kind of help uh individuals, right? That want that want kind of that empowerment. So definitely check out the link to the website and we would love to have you join that community.

SPEAKER_01

Wonderful ladies. Thank you very much for joining us. Again, thank you for going through the process of writing a book. I can't even imagine how you all managed to go on a call together. I'm struggling to schedule a call for one person for podcast recording. So I I admire the courage that you took just to go through the whole process to be so vulnerable with your ideas in front of other experts. But I'm so grateful that, and actually, I'm so proud of you for having the book because you are authors now, uh, and not many people can tell that about themselves. So thank you for the work that you're doing. All the best for everything that is coming up your ways. And I am absolutely sure that everybody who comes across either your book, newsletter, or workshops or every everything else that is coming up, I'm absolutely sure that they will be benefiting greatly. So, all the best. Thank you again for joining us. And for the audience, please connect with all of them on LinkedIn and carry on this conversation because they are bringing so much value to all of us, customer success beyond.