Life of Love with Julie Hilsen

The Power of a 20-Second Hug: Authenticity, Boundaries & Heart-Led Living

• Julie Hilsen • Season 3 • Episode 33

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In this heart-forward episode, Julie sits down with author and “rebel hugger” Melinda Lee Schmitt to explore the healing power of hugs, courageous boundaries, and how to follow your inner rebel—that calm, authentic voice inside that guides you toward truth. We talk about practicing 20-second hugs, reading energy and consent, loving ourselves first, and the surprising path that led Melinda to serve as a church “vibe keeper.” If you’ve been craving deeper connection without abandoning your own needs, this one’s for you. 💗

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Hello dear friends and welcome to Life of Love where we gather each week to explore what the life of love looks like today. And I'm so excited to have you here to have your ears and your hearts tuning in and honoring that you have said yes to exploring what life of love is and hearing my perspective on it. So I just want to let you know I honor that and I thank you for being here. And with that I'm going to set our intention for this episode and we'll get started because I'm very excited. I'm just getting into my body, into my heart. Dear God, thank you. Thank you, thank you for giving me the resources to be here today, for connecting me to this beloved soul, Melinda. I honor this space and I just, my intention is to create a loving environment for us to share, to explore, and to honor, honor love in our lives and the intention to live with love because it takes courage. And I thank you creator for this day. I thank you for these opportunities, the contrast that we've been seeing in the world to help us illuminate what we want to see. My heart is filled with love as we connect, we connect to each light of each soul to transmit with the intensity that's needed to heal the world and to bring in our guides, our higher selves, our angelics, the holy angels that work for you, dear Lord. And I ask the Holy Spirit to intensify this and show us. and Melinda's team is here and we're collaborating and so I'm so honored I'm so happy and I thank you thank you thank you so it is. So it is. Beautiful intention. uh Thank you. So guys, this is exciting. I have a fellow hugger on the show. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a hugger. Melinda Leishmet is here and uh gosh, she's she's in Atlanta. So we're not too far. We could have done this in person, we said and so shame on us for not realizing. But no, no shame. We don't do shame on life of love. But she she wrote a book about her adventure traveling around across the US hugging. And so she's gonna she's gonna tell us about rebel hugger. Her book. and her experience and I'm so excited. And then she's she has a faith mission too that she's helping and she's going to share about that. And it's just like when you come from your heart opportunities show up. So I really want to illuminate that with you, Melinda. And thank you for being on Life of Love. Thank you so much for having me here, Julie. I'm so happy to be here and I'm excited for the moment that we get to actually meet in person and hug. Yeah. Well, thanks for saying yes. gosh, so well, the obvious question is what possessed you to say I'm going to travel across country to hug? What was the inspiration for that? I would love to know that first. So it actually began with a year of hugs. So I was living in North Carolina, and I had just moved there maybe the year before. I didn't really get to, I didn't know anybody in that state, right? So I came from a family of huggers. I lived my whole life in Connecticut up until that point where we just naturally hugged each other. And so here I am in this new state where I'm not really knowing people and people didn't seem to be as much of huggers and I didn't know how to bridge that gap and I was really feeling lonely. So I had this idea that if I was feeling lonely and if I was missing hugs then maybe other people were too. And so I made it my mission that year to hug everybody that I encounter. So that was not a traveling one. That was me just staying in the Raleigh area. And when I'm in line at the grocery store striking up a conversation and at the end saying, do you mind if I give you a hug? And I spent the entire year doing that. So the cross-country trip came from attempting to sit down to write about my experiences from that year. and realizing that I wanted to go do it again, that I wanted to do it bigger and more boldly. And so the cross-country trip came from wanting to not just hug people in that quick moment, but to spend time with them. And so I would stay at people's houses and we would have dinner together and connect after the hug. So how did you connect with the people you were gonna spend time with? It was really about... It started with knowing that the thing that brought us together was the hug, right? So half the people that I stayed with, I knew, and half I didn't. It all came through social media. I just kind of put it out on social media and said, hey, I'm going to be doing this thing. If you're willing to host me, let me know. I'm just asking for a meal, good conversation, and a place to sleep. So everybody that I stayed with, even if they were strangers, knew somebody that knew me. So there was like a little bit of comfort level there. So it really began with knowing that each person I was staying with wanted connection because they answered the call to that, right? I had asked for this connection of hugs and sharing stories and being connected. So it kind of started there. And I let kind of like you do with this podcast, the conversations just be as organic as possible. When I had moments where there was maybe a lull or I wasn't really sure what direction we wanted to go in, the thing I like to focus on is love and goals and hopes and dreams and not necessarily the state of the world because the state of the world is what it is. Right, but who we are in that state of the world is what I'm interested in. So I wanna know who you are inside of that world. Wow. So I bet, and how long did it take you for that? I'm just curious how, cause I don't know, I could be away from home for so long. I'm like trying to put myself in your shoes. Cause it's so, it's so intriguing. It was a month. It took me a month. I drove from Atlanta all the way across to California up to Victoria and then back down again where I ended in Raleigh. And yeah, would definitely, if I thought about it too much, I don't know that I would have done it, but it was like I had the idea at the end of August. and I was on the road by the beginning of October. So it was like a really like fast turnaround and I had a really, he's my ex-husband now, but he was very supportive of me doing the trip and made sure that he was there to take care of the kids and so I was able to go out and do it. And so you would drive to the next place where you had like a confirmation. Is that how you planned your stops? You're just like, I'm just gonna let this lead me. Okay. was only once or twice, once in the very beginning where I headed to Alabama. And as I was on my way to Alabama, I still didn't know where I was going to be spending the night after. And I was like, oh my gosh, if this is how we're going to start out, like I'm just going to be panicking the whole time, like wondering where I'm going to stay. But by the time I made it to Alabama, I had somebody interested in having me stay with them in Louisiana. And then after that, everything just kind of fell into place and I was able to find somewhere to stay that was never any longer than an eight hour drive away. So that was the longest drives that I had to do was eight hours. And you were by yourself. didn't bring your dog or... Oh, yeah, I bet you listen to a lot of audio books. yes, I listened to a couple of audio books and it was honestly perfect for an introvert like me because I love being around people and I love connecting with people, but I also need my space to recharge. So it was like I had the best of both worlds. I got to like spend this quality time with people and then have the freedom of the open road to myself the next day. It was beautiful. so, did you ever have somewhere you stayed where you asked for the hug and they're like, I'm good, I don't need a hug? Yeah. country trip, just because that was kind of the given. Like when I showed up, that was going to be a given. No, because that was the whole premise. So they knew what they were getting into when they said yes. During my year of hugs, I did have a couple of nos. I mean, I hugged thousands of people that year. And for that many people, I only had about a handful of nos. So I was kind of surprised. I actually expected more than that because it's weird and awkward to have some stranger just be like, can I give you a hug? But everybody that said no that year, they were super respectful and they were just like, no, thank you. And just holding boundaries. hmm. Mm hmm. And so that that's sort of what I want to get into is, well, you know, you start thinking about different types of hugs. And there's like the just the arm hug. And then there's the, you know, I bet there's 50 or 100 different hugs if you get down to it, you know, it's the full on, you know, romantic hug where your arms are interlaced. And so I'm curious, do you have a standard hug? do you read the energy of the person be like, okay, this person just wants like a shoulder hug, you know, or what? How do you how do you adjust to what that person is looking for? Or do you have a standard hug that you're just this is my hug for a stranger? No, it's definitely more of a read the energy. I'm a very sensitive person, so I pick up on energy really easily. so even before I knew that that was a thing, when I did my year of hugs, I didn't know how energy sensitive I was. I didn't have words for any of that back then. Not until after. Not until after. But... That's just a very natural state of being for me is being really sensitive like that. So I've always read the energy of the person and it's really interesting because there are definitely those moments where the people are, they would say yes to me. So I knew I had permission for the hug, but you could still feel like a distance. And I would be very respectful of their boundary, but there would be occasionally, a person that had it, that had that wall up, but you could feel like the tiniest little opening. And whenever I would feel that, like there was this one woman in particular, she was a cashier at a Kroger in North Carolina. And she was so skeptical when I asked her for a hug, she gave me the whole side eye and she's like, like, what are you up to? And I just... know, softened my energy even more. And she was like, okay. And she kind of put out the one arm. So, you know, she was asking for the one-armed hug. And so I came in and I felt the softness and I felt the opening. And so I reached in with my one arm, but then I came back around with the other arm and just kind of pulled her in a little bit closer. And then I felt her arm come around me. and she went in and she went in for the full hug. And by the time I pulled away, she actually had a tear in her eye and I was like, I was really grateful I took that opportunity to notice that. Oh, this beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah, because you can and then at the length of the hug, like there's so many variables when you start thinking about it's like, my gosh, this is a very specific, you know, non specific, subjective thing the hug. Yeah, it really is. And one of the things that I've learned since then is that it's actually the 20 second marker is the point when all of the good feeling hormones really like flood the body. 20 seconds is a long time to hug someone. We typically don't do that unless it is a loved one. And I still have yet, I don't know that I would feel comfortable enough. to hug a stranger for 20 seconds, like that's a really long time. But if you, and I invite anybody out there watching to practice this, practice a 20 second hug and just watch how you feel before it and after it. And you can completely feel the difference and you can feel those hormones just kind of flood your body. Cause you'll either experience like a euphoria. or you might feel a release and like that's the point that people like just kind of start to cry a little bit and it's really beautiful. Yeah, because you're being held, you're being seen, and you're in that moment of the hug. It's a it's a very divine gesture. Wow. No man, no wonder you became a lot more aware of energy after that because you were collecting these, you know, because I do believe our auras collect until we we clear it and say this doesn't serve me but you can you can the static of other people's energy does come to you and that's the power of of your heart when you give a hug is because your hearts are like so close to each other you can sort of sync yeah. And in those moments when the hearts are synchronizing, there's no labels. And that's one of my favorite things. Like there is no defining labels. There is simply human to human contact. And you're closer to that feeling of oneness with another when you're in that moment. I love that. you, and this is a little bit of a squirrel comment, but I've noticed like my boys, they don't do a high five the way traditionally high fives are done. They lock their thumbs and they do this. Yep, I do. there's a name for it, I just can't tell you. I think that we're evolving as people and we realize we need a little more connection and the evolution of the high five as I see it happening, I think it's a nod to that. And I wondered if you'd noticed that at all, if you'd seen that. haven't noticed that in particular with my boys. I mean, my boys were one in four when I did my year of hugs and they were with me the whole time. So this is just a way of life for them. So I don't see them giving high fives. I only see them hugging. that is, that's not something that I've seen, but it makes sense to me, especially coming off the heels of COVID. There was, that's one of the biggest questions that I get is how do we move through something like that again, if it were to happen again, and how do we come back from it? And how do we learn to trust and be open to connecting again and having that physical contact, especially the hugs again after something like that? And that is definitely like, yeah, that makes sense because you're, can keep your whole like mouth and everything still relative. good distance, but you've got more of a connection and a contact and uh an embrace, more of an embrace right there. Mm-hmm. And they say your hands go to your heart. That meridian. I love that. So question, were you in Raleigh during COVID or were you in Atlanta? I was in Atlanta and I was going through a divorce at the time. So, you know, there was a lot that I was experiencing and, but while I was experiencing all of that and while I was going through all of that, it gave me a really great opportunity to notice how I can remain connected knowing that I'm not getting hugs during a time that I really, really needed them. You know? And was it possible to have as great of a connection as a hug would give over Zoom or over the phone or through these other connections? And while there's nothing that can replace the physical contact, there's nothing that can replace that. But what I did find is that the more vulnerable we can be in spaces, especially like this. I loved that Zoom really stepped up and created a space where we can see each other and talk to each other over videos so well. When we can enter these spaces with a vulnerability and authenticity, there's this opportunity for the connection that can be as great or close to as great as what a hug can provide. I love that. I love that you have that insight because you've spent so much time in the area. And I do notice when I'm on Zoom calls and people have their cameras on, you do connect more. don't know. You can see someone's soul through their eyes or their energy. can see it. Like, we're so sensitive and we forget. And then you're engaged because you're not going to be flipping through your phone in front of everyone on Zoom, like, doing your thing. Like, you're there. And so when people turn off their cameras, you know, it's like, what are they doing? I get curious. So I like that. And I did, I did. That's how I got through COVID was different spiritual zoom calls. I had one like every day. And then I, I wrote my book during COVID because I had that quiet time. I wasn't chasing my kids everywhere. Like they were in one place. I didn't have anywhere to drive them right, it gives us, we did learn a lot about how we're going to spend our time and different avenues for connecting. And so I honor that. I'll take that from the whole lockdown. And then I sort of, I still, when I see someone in a mask in public, at first I go to like, well, maybe they're sick or they're vulnerable. But then I also I try to send them love because to me that's being scared and they're shut off and they would definitely not want a hug. And I don't really ask strangers for hugs. have in the past, if I've noticed somebody just need a little support, I'll give them the side hug. um But yeah, I'm not as bold as you are. Let me tell you, I would love to say that it was a boldness, but it felt more like a calling because every morning for that, especially that first year when I did my year of hugs, you would think that by the end of the year, it would have gotten easier because I had practiced it for a whole year. But every single day that year, I woke up and I was like, God, I gotta find the courage to go do it again. Like it's really, it's super. vulnerable to especially to ask a stranger for a hug. It's very vulnerable because I'm not only opening up my own vulnerabilities, but I'm also asking them to come into that space with me. And they're saying yes or no to me being in that space with them. And it's way more powerful than I think people realize. You we look at the idea of a hug is this really like sweet, simple thing when really, when it's done well and with presence and vulnerability, it can be transformative and I would say even revolutionary in the face of the world that we currently live in. I couldn't agree more. Revolutionary is a great word for it. And I often think about, you know, the mass violence and it's like, if somebody would have given that person a hug, could it have changed the course? It makes you just wonder. Yeah, I agree. And it's, you know, I don't know that one hug could alter the course of somebody who is that deep in pain. But I know that when I've been that deep in pain and I'm like pushing everybody away, it's the person that comes and says, I see you in your pain and you still can't push me away. That makes me go, my God. people are still gonna love me no matter how I show up. my God. And that is the power, right? And the only way that I can know that is because somebody did that for me. So who am I to not do that for others? And what can we alter? And who can we stop from doing the really awful things just by standing in front of them in their pain while they're doing their best to hurt us the most and go, I will love you anyway. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's powerful. And yeah, well, in, right, the boundaries too. you had a deeper calling was it was did you pray and God said you need to hug or was this a soul longing or or how did you know that this was your mission? Because when you're scared to do something and you're like, I don't know if I could do it today. There's there's a calling there. There's like a show me show me what I need to see. But how did you how did this inspiration come that It honestly, it came because I had been talking again, back when my husband and I were together, my ex-husband, I was, the kids were young and I was like, I love being a mom, but I want a little something more. And, you know, my ex and I had been talking about me writing a blog. was during the time that in the early 2000s when blogging was like a really big thing, it was just taking off. And I was like, you know, that could be fun. And so yeah, I mean, I was out driving and it was basically a prayer, meditation. I was kind of in that space of asking, right? And I was like, okay. So I really love this idea of blogging, know, tell me what I can do, show me what I can do. What am I good at? And the answer that I got was love. And I was like, Okay, great, but what am I supposed to do with that? Like, what kind of an answer is that? And in that moment when I asked for clarity, because I'm like, love doesn't give me anything. I felt this like warmth kind of flood through my heart, and it flooded down my arms. And in that moment, I knew what was being asked of me. And I was like, hugs. I'm good at hugs. I can go do that. So. uh my gosh. Now I have to ask you another squirrel question. Did you ever have that the picture book with the monkey? It's called Hug. Have you seen that one? it, but just in passing. I haven't spent a lot of time with it. have it. Well, it came with a little stuffed animal, this little monkey. And, my gosh, my Blakey, he loved that we'd read that book. And the only word in the whole book was hug. And it was this little monkey, like, going around asking all the different animals for a hug, and the different ways those animals interacted with him. And then at the end of the, you the conclusion is he found his mom, and he's like, hug, and it was like the best, you know, big monkey hug. I saved it. Yeah. And then how did you, did anyone ever take advantage and try to like make the hug something more? Yes. Yes. Yes. And there was one moment where, there was one moment in particular that when you're out there doing some good in the world and you're wanting to, do the right thing, especially as women, I had a tendency to people please as it was to begin with. And that's great because that helped to support my desire to do good in the world because sometimes it helps me to move beyond my own ego. That being said, it also makes boundaries a little unclear. So I was in Arizona. and on the cross country trip and my friend and I were just sitting down to talk when this man showed up and he walked over and started talking to us and that was fine, you know, like I don't mind being interrupted in a conversation. I don't mind including other people in conversation, but he said a couple of really inappropriate things. And I. had this moment where I just thought to myself, well, how can I tell him to go away when I'm out here on a mission of spreading hugs and sharing love with others? How, like, I still wasn't familiar enough with boundaries to know that creating a boundary was loving myself. I didn't have that yet. So, you know, all I kept thinking was I'm a terrible person for wanting to make him go away. And so ah it was actually a really good lesson for me. And I did have a coach that I called the next day and she helped to walk me through it and helped me process the fact that this man violated boundaries. He made me uncomfortable and I, you know, kind of tried pulling away a little bit and he did it again. And she's like, he knew exactly what he was doing. And you have a right to those boundaries. And I was like, it was one of those moments that When she said it, I just started bawling because I had grown up my whole life not knowing that I had the right to create those kinds of boundaries. Because as a kid, as being a young girl, as a kid, it was always, put the others first. How do you think that's going to make them feel? Not, not how is it making you feel? Yeah. Yeah, good for you. it's once you learn that and that the switch that you're loving yourself, then there's no going back. But there's some kind of conditioning. I remember being a little girl and, you know, no judgment to my to my mom or my parents at all, because I grew up in a small town and everybody knew everybody. And you go to the bank and the old man sitting waiting, you go sit on his lap and talk to him. Yeah. I mean, I just I have vivid memories of just my mom letting strange men hold me in their lap. I was like, I look back at it now I'm like, I'm so glad that nothing happened. Because I wasn't taught boundaries. And I had to go through some pain to realize that I deserved the boundaries like, and, you know, it's, I agree, there's a release and then, and then it comes an empowerment because you've cleared that out. And yeah, so thank you for sharing that because it's It's something that needs to be heard and then also parents need to know, you know, that it's okay. your kid doesn't want to hug someone. Yeah. The only time I think, and in my little kid, I stood up for my boundaries was Santa Claus. I was like, hell to the no. I'm not sitting on this bourbon smelling. His beard was all dingy. I could tell he wasn't the real Santa Claus. Santa Claus wouldn't smell like bourbon and have a, like it must've been at the veterans home or something. I was like, I am not sitting on this fraud's lap. Right, right. So funny. Right. Yeah. have the word no, I was just like, this early everything in my being was like, this man is not touching me like, and I think that's what your is your guardian angel, it's your intuition, you know, saying, this isn't right. And you had that feeling about that guy. And then your ego is like, No, no, you your validation, you're you're worthy because of how you show up, you know, and, and that's not You're worthy because you're worthy, not because you made someone feel better. If you want to make someone feel better, that's you, but you don't feel better just to get that recognition. Yep. And that's really, Julie, everything that my book is about. Because, you know, when my year of hugs was over, I didn't know where I ended and other people began. so rather than feeling fulfilled at the end of it, I actually found myself in a really, really deep depression and in a very dark night of the soul. And it took me eight years to unpack all of that. So the book is really about what it took to unpack. all of the lessons that I learned about loving myself first before I can be out there and loving others better. Nice. And is that is did that segue into your position now and what you're you were sought after right like you you the universe gave back to you and this they reached out so I don't know if you want to share where this led to you today and that because I think I find that fascinating too. Yeah, so I actually saw this opportunity for a role at a Unitarian Universalist church. And I have a religious trauma background and, you know, I but I still feel like I wanted a spiritual home. And I had been to a couple of their sermons and I really enjoyed it. I liked how open they were and how loving and forgiving and like everybody belongs. And so I applied for the position and they hired me because I was the rebel hugger and they knew I had that book out there. And so they saw something in me that I had yet to see in myself for what they were looking for. So I kind of came in doing this role that they hired me for. And over a year, I began seeing a bigger perspective of what I could be, how I could be showing up at the church. And I started thinking about this new role that I could create here in the church. And I felt really validated because as I was sitting, I'd been talking with my boss about this idea, about this new role, and he was really open to it. And so I'm at one of the staff meetings. And I was describing what I thought my role was because we had a new associate minister that had just been hired. And so we were talking about who we were and what we did at the church. And I was like, well, this is the description of my role, but I kind of don't really feel like that's an accurate description of everything that I bring to the role. And the minister... when I was done said, you know, Melinda, she's like, I know you say that you can't quite pinpoint what it is that you do. She goes, but the way that I look at you, I see you as our vibe keeper. And I was like, I love that. That describes it perfectly. So I've kind of come in and into this role here as a vibe keeper of the church. And I take that role really personally and very responsibly. because we're only as great as the foundation that we're laid on. And I feel like a really big part of the foundation now. congratulations. You needed that fortification. Like that's really, really important. And I want to read one of your quotes, because it just hit me. your inner rebel is a compass, not a troublemaker. I picked that up. And I was like, you know, that that's a good one. Because so many times we're like, I don't want to stir the boat, or I don't want to step out on a ledge. So how how have you like going across country hugging somebody, but also like in daily life, do you how do you follow your inner rebel, and stay true to that that philosophy? And I think that would be really insightful for someone to, you know, to ask what their inner rebel is saying, is that your inner child or what is the inner rebel? So for me, feel like our, I call her the inner rebel, but really she is my inner being. She is the authentic version of myself. And we live in this world that says be authentic, but it doesn't celebrate that authenticity. It says, wait, wait, wait, no, not that way. Not that way. And so every- Every day I follow what she says before I follow what society says. And so that's how I show up in the world. I do everything that I can to show up as authentically as possible in each moment. And that includes boundaries and that includes speaking my mind. It includes showing up for people. It sometimes includes keeping my mouth quiet because it's not my moment. So it's just kind of following what I call the nudge. And it's our inner being is always going to be calm, peaceful, and quiet. And so I always know when I'm following her because or when I'm not following her because there will be an urgency. And that's when I know I'm following something that society has told me that I'm supposed to be doing, because my inner being will be like... Oh, okay, sure. You can go ahead and do that. She might validate it in that way or she might be like, you can do it if you want to, but no, that's not the way that I would choose. And it's very simple and calm and grounded. So even then you're like, you think of an inner rebel as being the troublemaker, but really she's the small, still, quiet voice inside. And isn't it a rebel to if someone if you know, you're in a situation where someone wants to you to react or is trying to get something out of you and, and you don't give into that, you don't have to make a comment. You don't have to pick a side. I mean, I think that's the hardest thing that we're up against right now. It's like, well, pick your side defend your the be righteous, defend your sometimes it's an I'm not participating. And that's a rebel move. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been so delightful and I'm really happy what came forward today One of the things that I love sharing is when we are following our inner rebel, our most authentic self, it can be really challenging because sometimes we're up against people who... love us, but that are afraid for us to change. And sometimes following the inner rebel means change. And so I love to offer this practice that I do on a daily basis. I've done it already a couple of times on this call, where if I need to just remember who I am, I just place my hands right on my heart, in the middle of my heart where my heart chakra is. And if I'm in a place to be able to close my eyes, I'll close my eyes. and just take a couple of deep breaths or even one deep breath. That way I'm reminded to come out of my head and into my heart. And if my heart is in alignment with my head, then it will agree with whatever it's saying. And if it's not, it will say something different. And I would love to, if you're okay, I'd like to emphasize that because it's so important to realize we're all together, but each person has a signature that's needed. And when you're looking for validation and instead of feeling your validation inside of you, you can easily step away from your authentic signature. And that's what our Creator put us here for. our authentic signature. So I am 100, 200 million times percent supporting your mission and, and being this rebel, you know, for yourself and showing up because the more the more we can honor that, that signature and, be accepting of ourselves and we're more accepting of everyone else and we can shine. ah I'm in the space for that. and amplifying. Dear Holy Spirit, please amplify that for everyone to hear it that needs it. Yes. So it is. So it is. Thank you so much. It's been so fun. Thank you. you, Julie. Yeah, I loved this conversation. Thank you so much.