Ep. 164 Pt.2
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[00:00:00] Hey everyone, this is Beth. And I'm Jeff. And this is your INI Graham coach, the podcast where we're here to help you to see yourselves with astonishing clarity so that you can break free from self condemnation, fear, and shame by knowing and experiencing the unconditional love, forgiveness, and freedom in Christ.

Well, we're on YouTube, so head over there, watch this, um, like and subscribe so you don't miss any of the new content that we're releasing. Well, today we're gonna be talking about type four s in their two wings. R type three and type five, and the concepts of wings for the Enneagram are new to you. Head over to episode one 60 where we, uh, do a thorough explanation of what the wings are in more detail.

Well, let's move into the three space. Yes. Which is very, very different than the five space. Yes. I cannot wait to hear from them about how they're three shows up because the three and the. Art the clash, right? There's a lot of differences of the three, the four, five, and three. I mean, four and five would clash with the [00:01:00] three.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, let's talk about the healthy side of three. Um, so threes are, they can be chameleons, which is gonna be very counter to the type four, who's all about authenticity. The four does not wanna put on mask, but the three is like we have to put on an achieving mask, you know, to win the day.

also for people to see that, you know, I'm successful or be admired. And so you can really kind of see the tension between these two. But with the three, we also wanna highlight the beautiful aspects that the three brings to the four, because the three really shows up in remarkable ways. Um, they're capable, they're competent.

They set goals. They're, um, very mindful of Oh yeah, that's a, that's a big goal to achieve. Let's not achieve something too big. Um, too lofty. But yeah, we can break this down into to bite size pieces. You know, we can have steps to get to where we want to go. , and this [00:02:00] can be so helpful for the four who hates the mundane.

Um, they are just ready to kind of, you know, go with the flow in a lot of ways. Um, a little bit different than the nine, but they definitely don't want to be in a rigid format. That can be really hard for them because it can feel very mundane and like, ugh. But the three's like. Here's the goal, here's where you're wanting to go, your aspiration, your authentic calling.

Um, but if the four just sits just in the four space, it might not happen. . And so we want the four to access and use the type three in this beautiful way to, again, to um, break down the goal into bite size, uh, pieces. But here's what's also important is that you don't just leave it into task mode. That again, the four will easily throw that out.

So you wanna make. For the fours out there, you wanna make it more authentic and real and true, creative. Maybe [00:03:00] a beautiful way to achieve your goals than just a mundane task. The threes, they can do the task all day long. No problem. Just get up and go. But for the four, we wanna make sure that you're bringing in more of an authentic bent.

And so what I would love to hear from you guys is how has the three showed up, the healthy part of your three showed up to get you going, to bring confidence to break down those goals and to get you from where you've been to where you are today. So I. So I mentioned that my dad died in March, 2020, and I found myself in this sort of emotional, spiritual, physical paralysis.

And the three wings sort of gave me the push to start doing right and to start, um, getting up, making decisions and shifts in my career that were gonna be a little bit more healthy for me. And so that was really a positive thing. And then, [00:04:00] Another thing that I started to do was, um, obviously grief is not going anywhere, but we can't be, I, I didn't wanna be consumed by that, even though emotionally I was being led to that consumption.

So I started carving out time in my week that I sort of labeled as grief time. So this was like, that three reminded me, okay, we need to have some sort of structure around this. Like you can't. Can't function 24 7 in a flood, um, which is kinda where I was for a while. And so the three sort of woke me up to the idea of scheduling grief time.

And what I do in that time depends on what I'm feeling in the moment. . So sometimes I'll journal. I love to do creative writing and poetry, so that's been something I also do, uh, painting as well. And so I sort of just keep a room in my house that has all of these sort of supplies and opportunities available.

Sometimes I just move, um, yeah, and, and, and really hope that my neighbors [00:05:00] not. Looking in just to let my body, uh, flow freely. But that's really been helpful and I think I can credit the three part of myself for saying, Hey, we gotta get up and do something and that structure is gonna be helpful in this space so that grief doesn't become your identity.

So, yes. Now, how does, um, the three part of your heart relate to the five part of your heart? If there's a lot of books in your home and you've probably done a lot of research and study, um, I find at times that my five part can just try to exhaust an issue and, but then at some point there's a part of me that shows up that says, Hey, let's make this something tangible.

Uh, but how does your three part show up to the five part? For me, they're very much the same. So as we were talking about when I was describing that sort of investigative part of me that shows up mm-hmm. , that has been helpful in the grief space. Um, three feels the same to [00:06:00] me. The difference is, um, with the five I can sort of, I feel like put the brakes on that if left to my threes devices, I would just.

Go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And not really address the emotional part. Yes. So I almost see five is like that, that brake pump a little bit. Fascinating. Gas on, like foot on the gas, you're going the way and you're gonna be the star, whatever it. You're gonna be the best. The best. You're gonna be the best griever ever.

I'm gonna show what I wanna bring up. One thing I wanna highlight is, so again, so one of the fears of the four is being emotionally cut off and the four, once the ability to feel and exude and dive into their emotions when they're there. But, so the, the three part of your heart is like, hold [00:07:00] on, we can't do that all the time.

We need to set aside, you know, space for that. But what I wanted to highlight was how you were in a healthy way able to listen to this part of you, the three part, and follow its lead. Even though it's going counter to the type four s core fear, like you could see the benefit and. . I just think that's really beautiful.

You know, that's gotta be a really hard thing to do, especially when it comes to grieving your dad. Mm-hmm. , um, to say there is a time and place to grieve and I will continue to grieve. We're not, we're not stopping it. We're just pushing pause so that I can do other things in life. Right. Did it feel that?

That challenging is what I can imagine it being. Absolutely. You know, I think one of the difficult aspects is, as I mentioned, I specialize in grief and loss and so I'm surrounded in a grief cloud in the best way. Mm-hmm. . But that coupled with my own grief [00:08:00] experience has really made me sort of have to lean in.

And I've used a lot of sticky notes, like, uh, my personal computer, I have sticky notes to remind me. Okay. Is grief your identity today? That's one of the . I love it. All over. All over. All over. Yeah. So one of the questions I ask is, you know, is grief your identity today? And that's just sort of a wake up call.

And if I'm noticing that my answers leading toward Yes. That's when that three part sort of, I'm reminded to kick into that and get to doing. Yeah. And not just, just wallowing. In the emotion of it all because I know I can't function like that. I know, and I've seen the, the impact of me doing that primarily on my partner, um, but also just in my business.

Um, so I've gotta be able to keep brains on it, for sure. Yeah. That's awesome. Madeline, what about you? How does the healthy part of three show up in your. Well, I've been taking notes on what Dr. Harris has [00:09:00] been saying. , I have a whole, I'm like, oh, what is she saying from great stuff. Um, so, uh, let's see the, the positive areas.

That's three. I would say I'm drawn to three. Um, most of my friends and my fiance we're both engaged, it sounds like under Harris. That's fun. We Congratulations. How great is it ? Um, yeah, so my, my fiance is a type three and most of my really close friends growing up were type three s and I. , look back at that.

And I think I've always been drawn to the achievement oriented, get stuff done. Like I am attracted to that energy because I don't think it comes as naturally to me. Um, I do have, I do have that extreme tension. I think I, I do believe I am more so a type five naturally. Um, [00:10:00] and so yeah. I. I think in terms of where it shows up in my life is, is when I'm, cuz I believe the Wing five is easily influenced and so I think I, I am easily influenced when I'm surrounded by.

The three's energy. So when my fiance wants to clean the house or get something done, I'm like, I'm inspired to do that too. And I'm just not in my head the whole time thinking about getting something done . Right, right. That's great actually, like making things happen. Yeah, exactly. That's so good. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Well, we're gonna dive into the unhealthy parts of, uh, wing three. So remember, again, this is positive intention. This part of you is trying to actually help and to protect you from harm. And it's doing the best, uh, that it can, but it does have needs and it does have, um, it needs our attention.

And so the wing, your three wing can make you feel like you need to earn love. An admiration. By becoming more [00:11:00] successful or perhaps even further unique individual, you may forego authenticity and shape shift to a particular image to gain praise from others. Since you envy what they have and feel that you're lacking, it can give you an unhealthy surplus of confidence in your unique qualities, work or accomplishments, making it difficult to admit when you are wrong or reveal anything that diminishes your image.

And your relationships can suffer because an unhealthy wing three can make you self-focused in reaching a goal and cause you to over embellish and boast about your accomplishments. So while your five wing can be associated with arrogance, your three wing. Is associated with deceit. When your three wing is present, you'll feel an internal tension between putting on a likable persona to charm and win others' admiration versus being the authentic real you.

You may forgo authenticity and shape shift into a particular image to gain praise from others since you envy what they have and feel that [00:12:00] you're lacking. Wow, and you can deceive yourself. And believing that you are the mask that you're wearing. So, well, I mean, Dr. Harris, you're gotta go first. Stepped up.

You gotta go first. So something happened there. I mean, there's not very many times that people say Wow, whenever I'm talking, but, uh, so thank you for that. I'm just not, yeah, yeah. So share, how has this showed up in your life? Oh my goodness. So one of the things I have really wrestled with is, um, not being the sad.

Right in the space of right, like not wanting to hold that identity or not even wanting that to be part of my story. And so what resonated with me was, uh, the idea of showing up as a chameleon and sort of thinking about, I, I've thought of it consciously, is like, I don't want other people to feel uncom.

That I'm showing up in that way. But now that I'm listening, I'm thinking, well, this is [00:13:00] probably my own desire, um, to not wanna, um, to sort of hide away. And it's, it's caused a see in terms of me. , basically like not telling the truth about what's really going on with my emotions. Mm-hmm. . So wanting to show up as, you know, the accomplished the polish and yes, I'm grieving, but we're not gonna talk about that outwardly.

Right. So, um, which has been dangerous I think for me, that has manifested in my body and so, I've noticed over the, you know, the past year or so that I, I've had to become more intentional about being honest with myself and writing has really been a powerful way to do that. But it's a challenge. It's a challenge partly because of my professional role and the expectation, you know, that I show up a certain way.

I think there's, you know, another layer of sort of the black woman, strong woman, black archetype, which there's that. Two parents who were in the [00:14:00] military. And so a lot of, a lot of messaging around, um, how you present yourself being, being a black girl in a predominantly white world for so long, and hearing the message like, you've gotta show up in this way.

So there's so much layering to that that my dad's death sort of, um, Is helping me dismantle, um, a lot of layers of things that have made me show up as a chameleon. Yeah. Wow, that's very interesting. Well, Mel, what about you? How does this three part of you show up in unhealthy ways? Wow. Um, sorry, I'm just, everything Dr.

Harris is saying. I really Oh, it's just hitting. I really appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. That's, Ironically to say about a four very vulnerable, um, . Thank you, um, to respond to that, um, how threes show up or how the three links shows up in my life [00:15:00] negatively. I think I struggle with, um, I, I, I grew up in, uh, as a pastor's kid.

At a very high profile church, um, in, at least for, um, I'm, I'm Seventh Adventist, and so this is the largest church in our denomination. Um, uh, and it's, my dad's one of, one of the many pastors there, and so it, uh, but he's been there for like 40 years now. So we, growing up, it was, it was definitely this like, okay, like you're like, One of the, one of the pastor's kids, like, make sure you, I, so I felt like I did have to put on a mask.

Um, and I, and I have very few memories of me not crying on the way to church because my outfit was kicked out for me. Everything was pre curated. Um, and I know my parents had the best intentions. It just was easier, quicker to get us out the door, whatever the reasonings were. [00:16:00] Um, Healing in that environment.

I'm still at that church having to heal and having to unapologetically show up without that mask. Um, I think I didn't have a choice but to have a wing three. I think that was kind of, that was the space I had and, and the role I had to play. I believe so, I think that's why, um, I didn't know I was an introvert.

Um, because I was a socialized as an extrovert. I was very, I was conditioned to. , um, speak, well make eye contact, like be like, speak well with my elders and just socialize. Um, well, cuz I didn't really have an option not to. It appeared. Um, so. . Yeah. It wasn't until college where someone told me, you're wing five

Hmm mm-hmm. and all that time, like, well, I should say in college I believed, I told people I was a four three because that's what I believed I was conditioned for. I just [00:17:00] Sure, sure. What it was. Um, but it wasn't until later where I was like, oh my gosh, I'm an introvert. Mm-hmm. , same. I didn't know, and I Same.

Yeah. That's why, you know, when we're, when we go into each of the unhealthy parts of wings, we always say it has good intention. Mm-hmm. , you know. So this part of you, like you said, you were trained and it. , it was playing a role in part of your survival as a child. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, and I don't, I don't mean survival as in like you're, you know, you weren't surviving, but just that role that you needed to play to feel safe or to feel secure or to be seen or understood.

Um, and so there's good intention and, and that's why we can honor that part of our heart and come alongside it and say, thank you for trying really hard. That no longer works, you know? And so bringing in the healthier aspects is what's best and most important. But I love how you're kind of, you're laying the stage of this is [00:18:00] how I was trained, this is what I had to do.

Yeah. And it's true. And, and to grieve that. Um, but then also what I love is that earlier you were talking about the healthy part of three and how it also shows up and really blesses you in the moment. . It is true. I mean, these parts of us, I, um, four Wings as well as other connecting types to our parts, um, our families mm-hmm.

uh, gravitate to these things and so you'll, you'll hear at times, particularly children of type one parents or type eight parents mm-hmm. , they have that voice in their head and it, they at times, even in their twenties, think they are that type because they've lived that type. Right. That's what they were being trained to do, is to live that type.

Well, I mean, I was. To be careful. Oh six. That's right. I mean, I, there are things that. Talks to me about that really is just an echo of her type six parent. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Um, and sometimes parts of us weren't desired. Uh, they, they weren't [00:19:00] encouraged. Uh, well, we were just, even though the episode is now, we just recorded.

Um, on type seven s and one of them had a type nine mother and so we were talking about the type seven with the eight wing and that just wasn't welcome. You know, the high, high energy of seven plus the assertiveness of seven and eight. For the dying mother. I can totally understand. Like, yeah, that's probably not gonna be accepted, you know?

And the mom is probably gonna try to tamp it down a little bit. And not that the mom was trying to do anything wrong or bad, that's just the way she saw the world. And so, Madeline, thank you for sharing how you know you were, and again, trained whether by parents or the church system to show up in a very specific way.

and how that was really difficult cuz it wasn't your authentic self. But as you've grown and you've allowed like, no, this is who I really am. I love just kind of being able to see and hold those spaces together. And, and many of, you've heard me talk about this before from my [00:20:00] time with Aller and thinking through these skills and talents that we.

Use to cope with our family of origin are actually still a part of our calling. Mm-hmm. . And although we may experience shame, we will also experience our glory as adults, kind of living free from those expectations and functioning that way. To actually living out our sense of call because these have been uniquely given to us by God.

Mm-hmm. for the purposes of our joy and his glory. Um, and so it, it, although it, we walk with a limp, um, but it's still, God's call is not voided in our life. These are parts of us that he wants us to use. Right. And show up with. Yeah. Well, um, Madeline, Dr. Harris. Both of you're such a gift. Thank you so much.

We're showing up in such an honest way today. Um, so Dr. Harris, where can people find out more about your work? Yeah, so I have a, have a love affair with Instagram these days. , um, especially those reels. [00:21:00] They're so fun. But yeah, so they can find me over on Instagram. Um, my handle is Dr. Mikkel, d r m e k e l, and they're the one about education, about grief.

Uh, inspiration, empowerment to reimagine life after loss, and also on my webpage. That's awesome as well. So, yeah, come on over. Join the fun. Lemme know. And what's the webpage? Oh, www.mickelharrisphd.com. Okay, great. And we'll have that in the show notes as well. Awesome. And Madeline, what about yourself? So I am also on Instagram.

It is my personal page, um, because I'm a student, I have, uh, I have, um, a link that direct actually directs me to, um, to your Ingram coach. Um, the, I'm on the coaching page and. A directory. Um, and for now that is what I have. And, um, but they can, people can get in contact with me on my Instagram and, um, [00:22:00] up until, until I have the means to make my own, uh, um, business account, I will do that.

But for now, that's what I have. Yeah. That's great. Well, Madeline, I, I know that, I mean, there have been thousands of coaches go through the program and so many people just don't take the first step to get started. So congratulations on you even as you're going through training and learning so much about what you didn't know before you stepped up and just dove in.

Yep. So, uh, great job. That's awesome. Well, if you're interested in learning more about the Enneagram, head on over to your engram coach.com. You'll find everything you need to know there. And if you're ready to take the next step with maybe perhaps personalized Enneagram coaching, be sure to check out our incredible certified coaches@myenneagramcoach.com.

And that's where you guys can find, uh, Dr. Harris and Madeline Mays. So my any graham coach.com is where all of our certified coaches are, so you can kind of see what they offer. There as well. Sounds good. And if, for those of you who are like us and who [00:23:00] love coaching others, uh, paying it forward, seeing the ripple effects in people's lives through Engram Coaching, then check out our certification program@yourengramcoach.com slash b c.

And our team would love to help, you know, give you information or help you to know how to accelerate transformation in other people's lives. Always remember that the Igram reveals your need for Jesus, not your need to work harder because it's the gospel that transforms us. Thank you so much for tuning in today.

The next episode will dive into type fives and their wings. We'll see you then.