How Emmy-Winning Music Supervisor Ciara Elwis Chooses Songs for TV

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 ABOUT THIS EPISODE: 

🏆 How does a song become the perfect soundtrack to a scene? What makes a TV opening sequence unforgettable? And how has streaming changed the world of music supervision? 

In this episode of SyncRiffs, Charles sits down with Emmy-winning music supervisor Ciara Elwis to discuss the creative and business sides of music supervision, sync licensing, soundtrack curation, and music clearance. 

 From her classical music roots to her work on acclaimed projects including I May Destroy You and Margot's Got Money Troubles, Ciara shares how music supervisors collaborate with directors, producers, and artists to build authentic soundtracks that elevate storytelling. She also discusses how Netflix and the streaming era have transformed licensing, global clearances, and opportunities for independent artists seeking sync placements. 

 Whether you're a songwriter, composer, producer, publisher, music supervisor, or independent artist, this conversation is packed with practical insights and behind-the-scenes stories from one of the industry's leading voices. 

🎵 In this episode: 

• Ciara's journey from classical music training to music supervision 

• Lessons learned from Spotify playlist curation 

• How streaming transformed music licensing and supervision 

• UK vs. US licensing and clearance practices 

• Building authentic soundtracks that support story and character 

• The creative process behind Margot's Got Money Troubles 

• The power of title sequence music and memorable openings 

• Working with directors, producers, and artists 

• How music shapes emotional storytelling 

• Opportunities for independent artists through sync placements 

• Building relationships within the music supervision community 

• Career advice for aspiring music supervisors 

 ⏱️ Chapters 

00:00 Welcome & Introduction to Ciara Elwis 

00:16 Classical Music Roots & Early Influences 

01:00 Lessons from Musical Training 

02:01 Spotify Playlist Curation Experience 

03:08 Breaking Into Music Supervision 

03:39 UK Music Licensing Then vs. Now 

04:13 Early Career Projects & Industry Insights 

05:36 Understanding UK Blanket Licensing Deals 

06:44 Global Rights & Music Clearances 

07:08 Netflix & The Streaming Revolution 

08:55 Breaking Into Music Supervision Through Short Films 

09:54 Building Relationships & Industry Connections 

10:42 Margot's Got Money Troubles Soundtrack Case Study 

11:11 Creating Authentic Soundtracks for Storytelling 

12:32 Music's Role in Multi-Generational Stories 

13:54 Live Recordings & On-Screen Performance Music 

15:07 Recording Unique Scenes for Authenticity 

17:19 Robin's "Blow My Mind" & Title Sequence Magic 

19:28 Clearing & Re-Versioning Iconic Songs 

22:02 Recontextualizing Music for Emotional Impact 

23:00 Using Artist Stems During Editorial Development 

24:39 How Music Changes Audience Perception 

25:39 How Sync Placements Change Artists' Careers 

27:48 Building Character-Driven Playlists 

29:31 Music Supervision on I May Destroy You 

32:28 Authenticity, Culture & Emotional Nuance 

33:13 Industry Trends, Future Projects & Final Thoughts 

Podcast produced by Blue Buddha Entertainment 

This content is for educational purposes. We encourage others to conduct proper research, and if needed, consult an attorney for any legal advice regarding music licensing. (c) (p) 2026 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Welcome back to another episode of Sync Rifts. So stoked to have in the studio Emmy winning music supervisor. I was gonna say from the originally from the UK, now in Los Angeles, Kira Elwis. How's it going, Kira?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Hi, nice to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Yeah. Yes, yes. We were catching up before we started, and um really stoked to have you on the podcast and shine a light on some of your amazing work as a music supervisor. And when I was going down the rabbit hole, I understand you're classically trained. What instrument did you play the piano? And before you know, I want to kind of go back before you begin to play.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

I was gonna say I've got piano in the background here. No, I'm a flortist, or I think you say flutists in America. Yeah, so that was my whole shtick from about six years old. I like trained Suzuki method, which is where you learn by ear. And you know, it was in like I'm from Scotland originally, so it's a small place. So like it was in like Scottish Children's Orchestra, all that kind of stuff, and like right the way through, that was like my whole like world, really. Uh, and it wasn't until I was sort of maybe like 14 or 15 that I started getting really, really into like popular contemporary music. Before that, I was just really in like the sort of classical world.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

But it it served you well because I think you know, I always in having chats with music supervisors, you know, try and find that through line, your passion for music and championing independent artists. And if you want to talk about because also I know you you were you worked at Spotify as a brand manager, student brand talk, talk about a little bit then kind of what yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah, so I went and studied, I studied music at Edinburgh University, and while I was at Edinburgh, I did a year abroad in France and I studied like musicology then, which was great. And while I was in France, weirdly, someone told me that about this job that you could get in your final year of university being a brand manager for Spotify, which is basically where you're appointed by then to look after playlists for the university. So you'll, you know, for example, like you work with the ski society and do their playlist for their trip, or you work with, you know, the rugby team or you know, the football team or soccer team, I should say, doing events. So we put on events which were Spotify sponsored, uh, you know, including like, you know, the sports ball, that kind of thing. And then also you were in charge of like playlists basically. So I do like an Edinburgh University library playlist for people. Um, so it was a really great opportunity, which I was very, very lucky to to get, but also really good practice for training the muscles in, you know, making playlists for other people, which is essentially what the job is.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yes, most definitely. And and and Kira, you're a veteran like myself, and and I was going back, and we'll go back in the time travel machine. But yeah, if I'm not mistaken, I think 2016 there was a now tell me, was it a TV show or a film? But it was called The Aliens, and you were assisting Matt DIFA over at Aradell. Tell us about that project and kind of from 2016 to now to 2026, how has the landscape of music supervision changed or or remained the same? I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Well, I mean, I think it's interesting coming from the UK. So when I worked on Aliens, I was still working on reception at a company called Aridell, which I left last August, but had amazing ten years with. They're at the most incredible music supervision company. And they also have a studio, they actually have three studios in in London just off Baker Street. So it's a little pub for them, go use them. Um, and I was employed as their studio receptionist slash office assistant. And the office entails in-house music supervisors, of which Maggie Rodford and Matt Biffer are two. And then also they have an agency where they represent composers. So I was doing a whole load of work, helping out in the office, and very, very early on, started speaking to Matt about music supervision, which was really why I took the job in the first place, because that was where I kind of wanted to end up. As much as I loved making tea of coffee, of course, as we all do, I'm sure. So Aliens was the first thing that he sort of put me through the ringer on, I suppose. And you know, I remember him coming down to reception and just sitting down and taking me through what we have in the U UK is like PRS to check publishing and PPL, which is where we check who owns the master. And he was like, okay, this is how you check it, this is how you populate like the Google Doc, which is what you know I still use to say basically everyone does. And so every morning when I got in after I'd done teas and coffees for whoever was in the studio, I would just, you know, check this document religiously to see if anything new had been added so that I could add it. And I just, I just loved it. I really, even now I love the research side of things and finding out, oh, you know, we're missing 40% now, how can we find it? But yeah, thing in the UK at that time was a lot of the stuff was still blanket. I don't know if you've had any UK supervisors on here before, so I can talk you through the blanket super quick.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Yes, please do, please do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

So in the UK, we have a deal that all of the main studios have, which is, you know, Channel 4, BBC, ITV, where they just pay a premium to PRS and PPL to use unlimited music in their shows for the, you know, I think year, two years, maybe three years it's negotiated at a time. And then per queue, it's something like 300 quid. So they've paid all this music up front, and then all you need to do is check that the rights are 100% represented. So it needs to be beyond PPL, and then it needs to be 100% represented on PRS, so the publishing needs to be 100% accounted for. And other than that, then it's just like, okay, we've got up to 30 seconds, that's gonna be 350. It's over 30 seconds, that's gonna be 500, and that's your music budget, which is why historically music budgets in the UK have been so much less, which has, as we're getting back to, created quite the change in the UK landscape in the last 10 years since I started, because all of a sudden we're clearing for worldwide and in perpetuity, and all the UK production companies are saying, What are you talking about? This is gonna cost you 10 grand. Um, because originally it would cost them a grand. So interesting. So that was the first show that I did with Matt. And then I think the second one I did was Love Sick, which was for Netflix. So that was my first uh situation of clearing for world worldwide in perpetuity. So I pretty quickly started doing work for Netflix, and it's been really interesting. Obviously, 2016 Netflix looks very different to 2026 Netflix, really seen that coming. I wish I'd bought shares, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Right, you and me both.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

But yeah, it's been really interesting, kind of watching the landscape change, and you know, it's even just little things like at that point we were still clearing DVD rights.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

And and streaming was just, oh yeah, of course you can buy out all the mechanicals and streaming, don't worry about it. And that's something that's really become such an issue, you know, for fast forward four or five years, all of a sudden it's all anyone's talking about is these mechanical rights in the UK because they're represented almost across the board in the UK, whereas it's not quite the same situation in the US. So it's it's been really, really interesting from a legal perspective to watch how it's evolved with the you know increase in streaming.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

100%. And I started Blue Buddha in 2002. So back then it was like Blu-ray, all different formats. I know all the technology that's gone to the wayside. And then now, with you know, that could be a part two chat, but you know, with the influence, if you look at the market share, you have your streamers and then YouTube television, and you know, waiting for what's gonna happen with with that kind of landscape.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

I know, and well look at the look at the last two, you know, these big blockbuster hits, they're basically YouTube stars come directors. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:24

Yes, it's it's it's an open uh open book and opportunities for you know content creators and and and I know Kira, also you had worked on a short, maybe it was prior to working on the aliens. Uh talk about shorts and you know opportunities for music supervisors who are looking to break into the industry and what a great way to maybe work on a short film and and it's festival rights, if you want to kind of touch on that.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yes, absolutely. So I was definitely lucky to come up under Matt, who was very gracious in both sharing his knowledge and also with projects that came across his desk that he didn't feel like he had time for, he would then say, you know, especially with short films, he'd say, How about you just try and do this? You know, either they know what song they want and you're just it's just a clearance job, or they want some advice finding clearable alternatives that are cheaper than what they've got in there, because inevitably, even with the festival rides being a lot cheaper, sometimes there's just not the money there. If the entire budget for the short film is two grand, then you're probably not really going to be able to afford an extra 500 for a music license. So yeah, so I think I did a short film called Barbados, which was the first one I ever did. Um, and that was like a really exciting moment for me because that's the first time you're seeing your name as a music supervisor in credits and things like that. But I always recommend it to anyone who's trying to get started out is unfortunately we definitely still live in an industry, and I think this is something that's only going to increase with AI, unfortunately, where you do need to sort of know what you're doing before people will pay you. And a really good way of learning how to do is to do things for free and help people out, and you also then build relationships which actually hopefully pay dividends later.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Yeah, huge point. And then, you know, fast forwarding in in in and threading the needle, and congrats to you uh for your work on Margot's Got Money Troubles, which is streaming now on Apple Television. And uh for the uninitiated, follows a young mother played by El Fanning, struggling to make ends meet. Uh she launches an uh OnlyFans account, and as her success grows, she's forced to question the cost of true internet fame. And it stars Michelle Pfeiffer, L. Fanning, Nicole Kidman, and Nick Offerman, a few, and it is the showrunner. Uh, was he also the writer? Yeah, I'm pulling up David E. Kelly, who's worked on The Practice, Lincoln Lawyer, a ton of shows, but would love to go down the rabbit hole on this release and what was sort of the creative approach, because I know you work closely uh with with David and also some of the actors on crafting an authentic soundtrack to the show.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yes, and I mean this really slightly ties into what I was just saying about, you know, relationships, because this came to me through the exec producer and director of four episodes, Darvla Walsh, who's an incredible director that I worked with on Bad Sisters. And then I worked with On Bad Sisters because I helped out on a series called This Way Up for Merriman, which is Sharon Hawkins' production company, way back in 2016, I think. And that was, you know, we have no money and we just don't have much time. So you do that and then fast forward, you know, maybe 10 years, and you get a project like this, which is obviously incredible. Um, so the idea with this was that we were really telling a multi-generational story, and we really wanted the music to be an important device in telling that to the audience, because for those who have read the book, it's very much more told from Margaret's perspective. And whilst the the series very much is too, there are some characters that have definitely been flushed out more. The mother has a much larger role in the series, in the sorry, in the series than it does in the than she does in the film, which you know when you have Michelle Pfeiffer, why wouldn't you? You want to have as much of her on screen as possible. So it was really interesting when I first got the scripts. There were quite a lot of script scripted songs, and there's a few of them that are still in there, but it was interesting from my perspective to understand when David and Eva, the other writer, were writing these episodes to understand where they were coming from. And it initially really built up this idea of first the family relationship being very, very important, especially between Margot and her mother, but also that Margot is a little bit of an old soul and a little bit of a romantic at heart, which does then play into some of the things that happen later on, which is also you know makes her growth into OnlyFans World so interesting. Um, and sonically, we really follow that storyline with a move into more I'm not gonna say TikTok sort of style songs, but definitely more contemporary, harder, yeah, hyper pop, more sort of hip-hop world. And that's a very intentional device to show how she's changing throughout the episodes. And then, of course, we have all these amazing music moments of her singing in the car, which was something you know that's not in the book at all, but it's such an incredible thing that was added in the scripts that you know from the very beginning has added so much life and colour into this, and also then again, it really goes back to the storytelling between Marg and her mother. So that was really fun. A few of those were scripted, but I think different songs. A few of them, I think the only one that was the same as Angel of the Morning was always going to be our version of Angel of the Morning, and we hadn't decided we were gonna use which version we were gonna use, because there's obviously the tip tailor as well. But once we had a look at the different versions, this just felt like the most realistic to Cheyenne and Marg's bond and to the music we've already heard from Cheyenne and the music we've already heard from Marg in the car. So that was a really amazing moment, and I think that shot is just incredible, and also, you know, all that all of that is sunlight, which is really says a lot because you know, to do it so freely in while you're also shooting in a car is just kind of compatible with that amazing overhead shot. And I have to give a shout out to the sound team because it really is very much testament to them that we got such good life captures on all this. Yeah, and then we did do some pre-records. We did pre-records for the Elvis and we did pre-records for the oh no, they're both Elvis, in fact. So the the Elvis in the chapel and the Elvis it with the choir. So it can't help falling in love with you. Uh it'd be me. And we, you know, we pre-recorded those because we were gonna have a choir on set, and it just made sense to make sure that we were sorted. And then for the Elvis one, I I flew to Vegas and recorded that with a real life Elvis impersonator, which is an absolute career highlight for me, I have to say. It was like just the best experience ever. And I really left feeling annoyed at myself for not having got married in Vegas. He was just the most emphatically incredibly interesting human being I've ever met, and he had the most incredible stories. I think they're making a documentary about him, which was like a lot. So, but I mean, I won't share the stories that he shared with me because none of them are legal or maybe make him look that great. But it was it was really, really interesting hearing about his life and how he built his business and who he bought the chapel off. And wow, yeah, it just just an incredible guy, and it was so fun then getting Greg and Michelle in to pre-record their their parts, and I think they did such an amazing job of making it look real on the day. Um, we really have to do so little with these scenes, which is so uncommon, really, compared with a lot of you know, pre-records I've done in the past where you pre-record it and then the performance is a little different, and you're post the ADR ing it, and it can become this whole thing. And I it's real testament to the how amazing these professionals are that it was really so easy.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Nice. Congrats on that. Because, like you said, on camera, special musical performances, a lot of details on the clearance side and also the execution and setup, and not to mention in songs by Dire Straits, Billy Idol, Robin. So such an eclectic soundtrack that you put together and and what it takes to move heaven and earth to clear these types of songs. And I think uh a great segue, Kira, is to talk about the Robin song, which also was a huge use because Robin's blow my mind. It was in the opening titles, and how it really set the tone for the entire series. So, how did you guys come at finding that track? What was kind of the through line on clearing clearing the track?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, so that was a really exciting one. We had talked about the title sequence a lot, and actually they used the same company that did the bad sisters title sequences, and he's just incredible. He does the most amazing work. So it was about finding a track that encapsulates everything that we wanted to say, which is really hard because the show actually says a lot says a lot. It it covers a lot of really difficult subject matter, but it's also very fun and vibrant, and it follows really three different characters as they sort of interact and don't with each other's lives. So it's really, really interesting trying to tell a story over a multi-generational level that also felt young and fresh and had the themes around motherhood. So I think it was back in October I got a call from Liwa at Beggars saying we've got a new Robin album coming out, and you know, we I know you're working on Margot. We'd love to give you early access to it, to hear it, to see if there's anything that you think might work for the series. And at that point, we I this is me and Jen, who is the Apple exec, and Sarah McMillan, who is the A24 music exec, who are the best. They we all sort of got on a phone call and said, And you know, we need to try and make this work if we can because this is just so perfect. And what's even more amazing about it is the song is an actually re-version that she wrote having had a child. So the song is literally about her seeing the world differently than she had before, because I think the original version came out in I want to say the late 90s, it might be early noughties, so forgive me, but her original version of it came out then, and then this new version was literally inspired by her becoming a mother, as the album is. So it was this specific song was so perfect. We did trial a few different ones, and it was really difficult because so many of them spoke to the themes of the series, which is a lovely problem to have. And then it was about getting it cleared, which I have to say was a real Herculean effort on on all sides because you know this music hadn't really been heard. I think, I think at the time I was one of the first 20 people in the world to hear it. It was being kept under serious raps. So earlier than October, then it might have even been August. But um, yeah, just an incredible opportunity. So big thanks to beggars for giving us early access to it. And we were super lucky that Robin liked it and that everything seemed to work really well together. We had this really tricky few months where we were sort of sending the song with storyboard versions of what that final sequence looks like because they had to send, you know, they for this storyboard sequence storyboard sequence, they sent prop items over to the UK.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

So they sent like costumes, they sent props, they sent all over to the UK to build that set, which is now this the sequence. So it was a really long sequence to build, but then they were also having to make these micro adjustments based on the track, and then we were making micro adjustments to the track based on just to make sure it all fitted perfectly, and then also there's a whole sound effects aspect of it, which we needed to be front and center enough that it was obvious to work with the sort of the pinball effect, but also then not detract from the seat the from the song in any way because the song is really such an incredible thing on its own, you just don't want to touch it. So yeah, yes, a lot a lot of work went into it, and there were so many moments where we didn't think it was gonna happen, to be honest. So I'm just so happy that it did. And also, then obviously it's so gratifying when you get the response that the song has got, which is amazing because it's really difficult to, you know, titles music is really tricky, it's really hard when you're just trying to encapsulate so much in a you know 30 to one minute sequence.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Would you agree, Kira, that that type of song for title sequence it can make or break the success of a show?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

I mean, I think it shouldn't. However, I think with the limited attention span and massive amount of um media to be consumed that we have access to at the moment, I think it makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Yes, yes. And and you know, we tip of the hat and to you know, like Nora Felder, and we we know sort of like the the the Kate Bush running up the hill effect of of what that did for Kate Bush's song and her catalog and and just re-energizing an artist's back catalog, but uh, I think the power of you know music to picture, the storytelling, and and the craft of what you do as a supervisor, part creative, obviously, and then the business side, clearing the track. And if we could spend a little bit of time here, because I'm curious, you know, I've talked to many supervisors, and case by case it's different, but working with the editor in posts, might there be times where, because it kind of sounded like with this Robin track, are there ever cases where you're like, hey, let's get the stems and and really try and make this the music bend to picture? What what how often does that happen?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

It happens every so often, I would say. You know, it sort of depends on the artist how open they are to it. I think we did have this we definitely did have the stems for Robin, in fact, in the end for this one. So usually I I've found more recently, definitely, that artists are more open to it, which is good because actually it really does serve everyone when it's done right. You know, there's nothing more plunky than a bad music edit, right? So you just want to put the song in as best stead as possible, and you also want to put the picture in as best stead as possible. So, you know, I think I think it's really interesting, but I also do massively respect when artists don't want changes made to their songs at all because ultimately it's you know, it's their thing. And yeah, you know, one of the things I find so interesting about this work in general is the way that we have a capacity to change the context that people see songs, things, songs that people have, you know. I think you know that's a it's a really good example with the running up that hill because there's a whole generation of people, multiple generations of people, who have such a strong reaction to that song based on their childhood or their teenhood or their early twenties or thirties. You know, people remember hearing that song for the first time, and it's very much the case, I would say, with some of the songs that we use, you know, Rebel Yale being a big example. You have it's such a powerful thing to change the context of how someone views a song so absolutely by putting into a different, you know, giving someone a different picture to look at, and all of a sudden this song that was about your breakup with your teenage heart throb becomes this beautiful thing. The made you cry in a completely happy tears way.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Yes. Okay. Yeah. No, 100%. Spot on. I mean, it's it's fascinating. I'm gonna thread the needle because I also think teach an online sync course. And one of the things I was illustrating, because I'm a huge fan of them, and uh in 2012, I was consulting with a company that was pitching. It was uh Bastille's Pompeii. And Dan, the vocalist was in in some of the YouTube clips. If you pick up, he's talking about that song and how it resonated. And for him at the time, he said there was no tracks that kind of had that. I think everything was like hyper pop, and then Pompeii dropped that track, and then with TikTok and socials, then there was like a re-emergence of people doing TikTok socials to to Pompeii. And I think you know, the power of music again and and uh you know to shed light also uh the soundtrack for Margas Got Money Problems, it was also Tony K. How what was kind of the opportunity for independent artists in in the in the soundtrack?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Pretty huge, to be honest, because when you're clearing big tracks like the ones we've used, there needs to we need to cut the cloth accordingly, put it that way. There's not an infinite money pot, sadly. Although, you know, obviously Apple was very good at budgeting their shows, I would say. But yeah, it's one of these situations where to be honest, for me, it's one of the most joyful things that you can do as a museum supervisor. And after this, after this specific series series coming out, there was a number of super of artists that messaged me saying how important it had been to them, which is really incredible thing to be able to be a part of, to be honest. I mean, literally as much as saying, which is not specifically on this show, but I had on a show before, you know, we cleared a track, I think it was 4K all in, and they messaged me afterwards to say we're now back in the studio able to record our second album. Because and you know, that's just an incredible thing to be able to do. As a music lover, of course, that's something that yeah you dream of, frankly. It it it does mean more than it does to these artists who are already making big bucks, and that's right, that doesn't mean that I prefer clearing one thing more than the other, because as far as I'm concerned, the scene and the story is the most important thing, and you always have to serve that. But it does it is a nice extra, that's for sure. And uh certainly here it was important for us to represent Margot's taste in a very real way, and you know, ultimately she's spending a lot of time on TikTok and she's picking up artists all over the place, she's picking up artists, you know, on her shift, she's picking up artists for yeah, college originally. Sorry, no spoilers there. So it was important for us to build Margot's playlist in a way that felt really reflective. And I looked back to sort of my playlisting around a little younger actually, uh, before I, you know, started doing all this. And you know, it was really interesting because you know there was the ABBA song that my mum loved and the Queen song that my mum loved, and then there was a Bob Dylan song that I'd like picked up on a series of TV, and then there was this other thing, and then there was you know all that music that I listened to because I loved Wantree Hill, you know. So and then there was the music that my friends were listening to. So I and you know, this was back in the sort of Limeware iPod days, so everyone's just bearing stuff all over the place. So apologies in advance. Although I was still buying my music, I would say, so that's a good thing. But yeah, it's just really interesting to see like how to build that i in today's world, you know, what are the influences that she's taking on and where she finds her music? And yeah, it would be realistic that she would have, you know, a band that maybe only has a couple of hundred thousand plays on Spotify because she picked it up on the TikTok or whatever and just thought it was cool. And you know, also her dad's taste plays into her taste quite considerably. So we wanted to make sure that we had some indie bands in there and for them to feel like quite raw and unfiltered. Because that's she's very raw and unfiltered herself.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

So authentic, Kira, because similarly in booking in the second part of our conversation, wanted to chat about I think it came out in 2020. You also you had music supervised I May Destroy You, which uh came out on HBO BBC. And um the brief synopsis, uh British comedy drama, basically 12 apps on HBO Max, and it follows Arabella, a carefree London writer who attempts to rebuild her life after being drugged and sexually assaulted. So blending dark humor and psychological drama, the Siri Exports, complex issues of consent, trauma, and recovery in the modern dating landscape. And the music sounds like comedy that right, right, most definitely, yes, to underscore that 100%. But the music on this, I mean, and and I followed you on Spotify, but you had shared the playlists. Uh talk about every track is a banger to coin a phrase, but I I'll well I'll share this when we when we post up the episode. But talk about what, you know, in contrast to Margot's Got Money Problems with uh I May Destroy You, what was kind of, you know, I would imagine a good percentage of London-based artists and independent and major labels. So talk about, you know, that absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

So that more so because, you know, as a BBC funded show, budget is not unlimited, that's for sure. So we had to be really careful about how we picked our big moments, and then I mean, we're lucky because the UK is full of incredible artists that haven't, for whatever reason, been discovered yet. So it was really a situation of just finding those people and giving them a platform, which was a really cool thing to do. And I always try and start with a sort of place of self when I'm building out. So, you know, what do I have in common with this character? What do we what similar kind of like lifestyles do we share? And, you know, I'm literally lived in the same part of London as Arabella at that point. So in terms of building out that part of the sonnet tapestry, if you will, it was sort of an easier undertaking in some ways because I was so familiar with that landscape. And then it was also about listening to Michaela very, very closely about her influences and where she gets her music, and then going and finding more music that's felt in a similar world. And you this is something that I very did very similarly on a series I just worked on for Riz Ahmed, which is called Bait, which is on Amazon Prime Video, and that's the same thing, you know. That's as uh in fact, that's even more like culturally speci specific because it's based on his upbringing as a Pakistani British person living in London. So it was about finding the influences that would have affected his life growing up and his family. And one of the things that we did with I May Destroy You, which was quite different, is that we didn't have a composer, so every single song had to have this dual intent of being right for the moment and feeling very real because the world building was so important in a show that does so much tonally, it's kind of unreal. But also carries emotional beats without feeling like you're making someone feel one way or another. Because that was one of the main things that Sam, the director, and Michaela were really, really firm on with something that's tackling such huge subject matter. You just need to make sure you're not leading someone to be like, you need to be sad here or you need to be angry here, because actually the most powerful thing you can do with these sort of series is make people make up their own mind.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yes, no, a hundred percent. And Kira, uh, you know, congrats and much continued success. Both these projects are just, you know, scratching the surface of your work. And I can't wait to reconnect in the future. I would love to chat more with you on, you know, your other projects because thankfully, us both being in Los Angeles and we're seeing with all the uh things that have been done to keep productions in California, we're seeing that it's an uptick in productions. I can't wait to follow and reconnect and chat and hear about your other works. And I can't believe it's already June, and I know you're gonna be traveling for a bit, but yeah, so great to connect and thanks for stopping by this studio.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Thanks so much, Charles. Appreciate it. And yeah, I'd love to love to chat.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Yes, yes, because we can go down the rabbit hole and talk about blur, super grass. I'm here, I'm born and raised in the US, but uh I'm a bit of an anglophile when it comes to the music side coming up on the all the you know my 90s ads.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

So that's part two. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yes, yes. Brilliant, Kira. Thanks so much, everybody. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll catch you next week on another episode of Synchrist. Thank you, uh, Kira Ellis, and we'll catch you on the other side.