Sex, Drugs and Skincare
Comedian and esthetician, Nicky Davis, along with side kick/boyfriend/assistant Sandro Iocolano, interviews comedians, actors and other practitioners as we learn about the latest, as well as the oldest techniques for staying young. We get weird but educational.
Sex, Drugs and Skincare
Beauty's Dark Side/ Guest Therapist Alicia Racine Fink
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Beauty culture isn't just about looking good – it's sometimes a sophisticated coping mechanism for avoiding deeper pain. When licensed therapist Alicia Racine Fink returns for her second appearance, our conversation quickly moves beyond skincare into the fascinating psychological territory where beauty meets trauma.
What happens when self-care transforms into something darker? We explore how post-breakup "glow-ups" and revenge bodies often serve as armor against truly feeling our grief. "People should grieve the fuck out of a loss before they actually go glow up," Alicia notes, highlighting how our cultural obsession with transformation often masks an inability to process difficult emotions.
The discussion takes a particularly fascinating turn when examining how filtering has warped our perception of ourselves. We're now so accustomed to seeing enhanced versions of our faces that encountering our natural reflection can feel jarring or even traumatic. This creates what therapists call "ego dystonic" responses – where even when loved ones compliment our appearance, we simply cannot believe them because their perception doesn't match our internal narrative.
Perhaps most provocatively, we question whether beauty standards themselves have created a "compound complex trauma" affecting us daily. For women especially, appearance remains intrinsically linked to credibility and worth. This raises essential questions about motivation: "Am I doing this because I love myself, or am I trying to avoid feeling something deeper?"
Welcome to Sex, Drugs, and Skincare
Speaker 1You are listening to , watching , hearing , smelling , tasting and feeling sex drugs and skin care . Like and subscribe . Hey , welcome back to Sex Drugs and Skin Care .
Speaker 2I got scared . I was like whoa , what's going on ? No , you're here , we're here , okay , yeah , cool , that was cool yeah .
Speaker 1Here we are . Here we are again . Oh man , this is episode . I think it's like episode 115, .
Speaker 2I think it's something like that yeah , 115 , 115 . That's pretty good . Yeah , we just guess at every episode . This could be number one . We have no idea . That's very . This isn't the first episode , is it ? No , okay .
Speaker 1I'm Nikki Davis Jr Of the Davis Juniors , the West Hollywood Davis Juniors .
Speaker 2Oh really , I didn't realize you were a West Hollywood Davis Junior .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't like to put it out there too much .
Speaker 2Oh , you're not part of the Glendale Seniors are you ? I will be someday the Glendale Seniors are . I mean , they think they're Davises , but they're not Davises .
Speaker 1No , they're Davies .
Speaker 2They're Davies , exactly , there's a big difference .
Speaker 1We're the only skincare um podcast and it's comedy and I know you we can talk about scabs and , um , maybe that'll be our next topic scabs what are they like that ?
Speaker 3I don't know . Yeah , and scabies , and scabies . I know we need to know more about that .
Speaker 1I thought maybe I had it because I had this rash that kept recurring and I was like I mean what else could it possibly be ?
Speaker 2It's actually starting to go away . Do you have rickets ? No , you're not a pirate , are you ? No , you have scurvy .
Speaker 1I love how you scabies I would have been like never , and will this ever be scabies ? Never , ever . It'd be new , something new . I need something new . I know rashes are so boring , um , so yeah . So this is the only comedy skincare or the only comedy plus skincare podcast that's out there that I'm aware of , and I am a licensed comedian stand-up esthetician , and we cover topics of beauty , sometimes sex and drugs as well , sometimes all three , and with me , as usual , is Sandro Iocolano , that's right Of the Sicily Iocolanos .
Speaker 2My favorite's from Brentwood .
Speaker 1Brentwood , Italy . I wish I had done that .
Speaker 2You wish you'd done that .
Speaker 1Yeah , because then we could have just visited Brentwood instead of Sicily . I know , oh my .
Speaker 2God , my dad falling down 3,000 miles .
Speaker 3I'm so sorry , but I made you laugh . It would have been nicer if it was down the street .
Speaker 1It would have been much easier . Oh my God , family , that was a fun trip Sometimes .
Speaker 2I love them all the time .
Speaker 1Your sister-in-law looked at me when they were . They're Italian , so they have a lot of animated conversations . There's always yelling and crying . It's very much like an opera .
Speaker 2Yeah , I'm so tired of people saying oh , you're Italian , you must be yelling . No , let's just get to the root of Italy , get your shit together and go to therapy . Go to therapy , every one of you . I'm tired of living like this . Oh my God .
Speaker 1The whole family is like that .
Speaker 2It's just yeah , but you're Italian . No , get some help .
Speaker 1Nobody ever works anything out .
Speaker 2No , that's why they're conquered constantly . That's a good point . I hadn't thought about that .
Speaker 1They're just emotionally immature . Yeah , we love our food . Here's our butts . You know , that's the sex part but I love that your sister-in-law looked at me after everything , this is all going on and she just goes . Welcome to the family vacation oh , yeah , yeah , yeah yeah , she goes . Yeah , welcome to vacation with the family like she .
Speaker 2She'd been through this before yeah this was my first experience yeah , I don't remember her being uh going through with her before , but definitely it was something that I've gone through before so , yeah , I make a point
Italian Family Vacations and Therapy
Speaker 2never to go on vacation with anybody's family from now on . Oh yeah , yeah , I'll do the same , not even mine not even , especially not mine no , I would never be around your family . No , I love my family . I just don't want to go on vacation with them . No , vacation and family don't sound like . We've all seen european vacation .
Speaker 1We've seen your national lampoon's vacation everybody's a documentary , everybody's on different timing yeah you know , like everybody's just like . There's always like people that walk a little slower than everybody else .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's like , yeah , you just want to walk slower than everybody else . You want to get moving . Some people want to see other things here . I am a teenage boy . I want to masturbate . I just want to go out and see the city . You know , I'm 45 years old , I'm a teenager , I want to go out there , and yeah it's . You know , it's just better , I think , to have a couple of family members maybe come to you or you go to them and then that's nice . Yeah .
Speaker 1I like it . You don't have to get together a bunch of people . No , oh , my phone's going off . Sorry , I'm getting junk spam Did you want to answer that ? No , I'm good , so let's just get right to the guest . What do you say ?
Speaker 2I'm excited this is another repeat guest .
Speaker 1Another repeat guest because we thought she was so fascinating . We actually stopped during the last podcast because we had more to say . Right , she's a licensed therapist , I am . She's a comedian . She's a licensed therapist , I am . She's also been a . She's a comedian . She's a very funny person . I'm a funny person , yeah .
Speaker 3We'll say that .
Speaker 2She's very confident . I like that too . That's cool . She's pretty , oh , thank you Don't worry , I'm not trying to trap you . No , no , we have a house together , I think I'm so tied to you now .
Speaker 1It's a lot . Yeah , I know A lot of paperwork .
Speaker 3I'm excited for you guys though .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3Do you need some couples ?
Speaker 1counseling .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's all right .
Speaker 1We need two couples counselors . We need them to be a couple .
Speaker 2That's hilarious . A couple of counselors , yeah , so yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , Last time we talked about well , we'll just bring her out Alicia Racine Fink . Yay , Thank you so much for being here . Thank you for having me . We had so much fun last time we had too much fun .
Speaker 3Honestly , it went by so fast and then when we left , we were like we have so much more to talk about . Yeah , and now I'm back here to talk about it and I don't remember what it was . She was just telling me I'm concerned , that I'm not gonna have enough to talk about .
Speaker 1Oh my goodness and I also .
Speaker 3Yeah , we're showing some skin today , yeah she did it first , I'm just copying .
Speaker 1Yeah well , it looks nice . I think it draws viewers in right , it also it's .
Speaker 2You know , it's getting to be summertime and it's a skincare podcast , as alicia pointed out in the break right , you should show a skin so I took out the rash side .
Speaker 1Maybe I should do the non-rash side . I don't think so because as a comedian , you're just . You don't want to be rash , let's see , I don't know , that's a good joke it is that's a good joke .
Speaker 2Yeah , and when a joke doesn't work , you go . That's a good joke oh yeah , that's right .
Speaker 3I'm sorry that was a really good joke , that you're fine . It's kind of like when you just play music over and over again . So , yeah , don't you love this ?
Speaker 1it's like oh god , are these people dying ?
Speaker 2like isn't it good ?
Speaker 3oh , my goodness , okay . So we're here and I just got a facial from you you did , which I think we should talk about I think .
Speaker 1First of all , I'm just I'm amazed that she's able to even speak after doing this . Not only did she have a facial with me where I rubbed her face into oblivion , then she literally went from my apartment into her car . I did . I'm sorry if your patient is watching . I hope that they watch this .
Speaker 3I think I will tell them to watch this so they can see this yes , I was in the car therapizing someone very special Right after , though she's very , very special right after , though , very special right after and then I had to answer some questions , and now I'm here and I'm supposed to talk and my brain is not operating at normal level because you massage the shit that's nikki's tagline .
Speaker 2Yeah , massage the shit out of your face , does she ?
Speaker 3massage your face . Have you ever felt , felt this ? This is better than drugs .
Speaker 2It is .
Speaker 1And sex . I should do it more . Yeah , exactly , yeah , bring it all together , maybe for him Well when you for me yeah , when she does the massaging , yeah , that's .
Speaker 2It's just unbelievably relaxing and then getting the spots where it hurts and I'm like to get into your jaw too the inside part right it's so nice , okay , so I loved it and I do love facials and I love massage .
Speaker 3Anyway , what were you doing to me ? And and is it helpful for people
Structural Facelift Massage Experience
Speaker 3on the podcast to know ?
Speaker 1because I think it should be I probably should talk about it more , but I don't . Yeah , um , it's a structural facelift massage . There's very little product involved . Um , it's , it's , it's uh , lymphatic drainage , acupressure massage . So I start you off with lymphatic drainage to make sure that all the channels are clear I felt that and she even like , did no , no , here . Yeah , like underneath your sternum , I got there yeah , that was amazing okay yeah , and so everything's moving , yeah , um , so there's no like blockages . Then I get into the deeper massage .
Speaker 3There were lots of blockages when we started .
Speaker 1Yeah , and then what else do I do ? There's some acupressure involved . And then what were you going to say ? No , you did a lot of like this , oh , like a lot of lifting and toning .
Speaker 2Yeah , okay , with the massage to put the muscles . There's no elbows involved . You don't use , there's no elbows no in the face . That'd be so funny if she got on top and she was just like because I see like a massage , like a lot of people will do , like you know , like the massage on a body on the body , but never on the face , right , you don't like massage somebody's cheekbone with your ? Okay , well , I don't know techniques , I could try it . Yeah , see if maybe there's a technique you need to master or something .
Speaker 1Well , what I'm trying to do and what we are doing is not only are we bringing circulation to the skin and the muscle and the fascia which is super important , right and then I'm also keeping all those muscles stretched and relaxed and the fascia as well , like trying to break up adhesions , like so , when I'm in your mouth , I'm trying to break up adhesions so that like helps with the , you know , like parentheses , stuff , what do you call these things ? Nasolabial folds ?
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , any adhesions anytime you have a wrinkle , it's almost always an adhesion of something pulling down people . And then you just cause you keep making that same face over and over again . So , and then you , just because you keep making that same face over and over again , so your body actually makes like almost like a , it's like almost like a scar and it sticks down , got it . So it's better to prevent it , but I can definitely help it , okay .
Speaker 3And then we go inside your jaw and then I yeah , she puts gloves on and goes inside . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1With your consent . Yeah With that .
Speaker 3Yes , and I consented . I was like get it oh yeah , yeah , you did .
Speaker 2I did that . You're using new gloves now . Right , You're not reusing gloves again ?
Speaker 1No , okay , oh Lord , yeah , I just turn them inside out like my underwear .
Speaker 2They're like burlap sack ones . They're really good , they last a long time .
Speaker 1Do you ever do that ?
Speaker 3underwear inside out . Oh , I have done that . Yeah , let's be honest here .
Speaker 1Yes , it's not as fun wearing .
Speaker 3You know it's not underwear , now , no , I'm not , yeah , yeah , I wish I was , though , because I would have been fucking funny sometimes I just look down and I'm like , oh my god , my underwear is inside out .
Speaker 1That makes so much sense . Why it's like scratchy ? Because it's like lace on the outside , oh my it's like an exfoliant .
Speaker 3This did end up coming off I I am hot now .
Speaker 1Yeah , you are hot . You were hot when you walked in .
Speaker 3Oh , you're so sweet . You guys are . I really do come for the compliments . It's so nice . I got called confident today I got called I can't remember because of your massage .
Speaker 1She's good at what she does .
Speaker 3I don't know what we said either , because I don't even know what you said it was all positive , though that's the most important it was really positive and I feel good about myself now if you subscribe to the podcast , you could watch it .
Speaker 1I mean , you can even watch it .
Speaker 3I'm not subscribed .
Speaker 1I have no idea you might , I don't , I don't look to see what , what the 10 people's names are how would I know ?
Speaker 3I should subscribe if I'm not subscribed . If you're , yeah , but you ?
Speaker 1can watch it , even if you don't , obviously , but subscribe you guys . Oh , that's the other thing . Hit the subscribe button and also hit the notification button so that when these cool podcasts come out , they'll let you know . We're also doing a shorter format right now so that it's more digestible and it's going to take up less of your work time .
Speaker 2Also write podcasts in the comments . Remember all um also write podcasts in the comments . Remember all this in your body . Remember all this in your body , right podcast . And then we're doing an abundance seminar . Um should we talk about ?
Speaker 3that are you doing an abundance seminar ? No we're not , but there's a guy on instagram .
Speaker 2Yeah , he's , he's fantastic he up spirals your life yeah michael hunter .
Speaker 3He's fantastic . What's his ?
Speaker 2name michael hunter michael hunter he's so good , but he always does . The thing was like like you know , he'll be like be calm , write calm in the comments , to remember this in your body yeah which is a very nice way to be like hey , stay engaged yes in the comments to keep this in your body right and then it also makes him , you know , get more .
Speaker 1Uh , I don't know , whatever it up , spirals his life yeah , yeah , exactly , wow , I'll forward you some of his stuff it's really good , good and uplifting .
Speaker 2Yeah , let's just talk about other people . What's that ? Let's just talk about other people and their successful podcast .
Speaker 3That sounds good , I have a podcast . Oh , you do yeah .
Speaker 1Tell me about your podcast . It's called .
Speaker 3Zannyland , uh-huh , and it's kind of like similar to your podcast , only in that it's like completely natural , but also like what ? So it's mental health and comedy that's so cool in a podcast , and I specifically interview comedians I'm gonna .
Speaker 1We still have to do . Oh yeah , yeah , I'd love to . I would love to . Are you kidding me ?
Speaker 2that's a nice pairing . Mental health comedians are in comedy . It's really been lovely yeah , I just did .
Speaker 3The one that came out this week is with drew dunn , if you guys know him , um , and I'm really proud of it . It's really been lovely . Yeah , I just did . The one that came out this week is with Drew Dunn , if you guys know him and I'm really proud of it . It's new though we're not at 150 whatever podcasts episode .
Speaker 1This is you'll get there , we're at like 6 , yeah , 6 , alright , or it's like 8 .
Speaker 3I don't officially know either , I've already lost track and we haven't even made it to 10 so you've committed to doing it yeah , I love it . It's really fun .
Speaker 2Podcasting is really fun I'm gonna check it out yeah , please , oh please check us out and subscribe and like it and like it and it is fun to just put it together like you kind of almost it's like the second part is like kind of being like are people watching ? This is just such a fun thing to do to get to kind of open up conversation and then you know it's a bonus if others , if someone else is watching it's a bonus .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , exactly yeah this part is so fun I just enjoy and I've said that from the very beginning and maybe I shouldn't have .
Speaker 3I don't care if anybody watches it , so I need to be more specific yeah I care if a lot of people watch it michael hunter , be okay with what you just said wait , who's michael hunter ?
Speaker 1again , I don .
Speaker 3I don't know . Is that the ?
Speaker 2guy the spiral guy . Oh , the spiral guy . Write Michael Hunter in the comments and remember his name in your body . Probably not . Yeah , I think absolutely .
Speaker 1Well , I just what I meant was I love it so much ? It's just like me , like a six-year-old in my bedroom with my friends coming over and just talking about fun stuff .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1Until I don't have fun with it , I'm just going to keep doing it .
Speaker 3I love that . Yeah , I love that . It's really fun to be here , so I'm assuming everyone loves to be on it .
Speaker 1It's comfy , it's nice . It's super comfy and nice , we're going to wash this tonight . We were already talking about it . I was like we're going to take the set home tonight in the suitcase , all right time when you were .
Speaker 2I'm sorry , I have the rash , I'm , it's scabies , scabies , scabies anybody's pirate out there .
Speaker 1Yes , you know it's like yeah , we were here , right yeah ?
Speaker 3and we talked about what we were supposed to just talk about . The original concept was how skincare can be self-care , right but then it transitioned into this more juicy topic of how , of how the beauty industry has a dark side . Very much so , and which is exciting , because you're promoting skincare , I'm assuming , but now I hear I was being like well , to a point wouldn't we love that ?
Speaker 3like it's . It's saying like skincare is amazing and it , if it's serving you , it's fantastic . And then it is self-care it's fantastic . But a lot of people slip and slide , not by their fault .
Speaker 1By this , I think , the world's fault oh , you mean like , in terms of like seeing themselves , comparing themselves yeah , they slip inside into like a dark world .
Speaker 2There's like a dark side of this beauty world like self-care becomes almost like an obsession or something to try to like , try to to like , become more and more An obsession , a compulsion yeah , You're a hundred percent right .
Speaker 3And so we sort of got into there and that got really juicy . And then we were like we got to talk again .
Speaker 1We have to talk about that for sure .
Speaker 3So my thought was think it was you know we could keep talking about like too many procedures or whatever is sort of where we landed on last time . But I was actually thinking like we as a culture identify things like after a breakup as , like you know , your glow up after a breakup Hell like the amazing glow up that you get after a breakup . I used to break up with guys just so I could be like I'm ready to lose some weight .
Speaker 2You know what I mean Revenge body .
Speaker 3Revenge body Exactly , and what they're saying , you know . What I'm here to say is that , like , in some ways , glow up is trauma , is a trauma response . It's sort of like when something bad happens to you .
Speaker 3Sometimes , instead of us dealing with our emotions , we put on the armor of the revenge body right right people like turn to I'm just gonna look better , I don't care if I feel better , I'm just gonna look better . We're kind of like a fake it till you make it society anyway , sure , and so I sort of wanted to lean into like looking at is some beauty
Glow-Ups as Trauma Responses
Speaker 3doings . Yeah , trauma is ituma . Is it a compulsion , is it a response ? And is it always the healthy response ? And like , how do we ask the question ? How do we go like is this making me my most happy and authentic self ? Am I doing this because I love myself or am I doing this because I'm trying to avoid a feeling ? Am I doing this because I want revenge ? Am I doing this because I've been comparing myself and I want to seem like someone else ? Yeah , why am I actually ?
Speaker 1doing it . That's a really good question . That should be asked immediately when they walk in the office . But then it won't , oh , it won't ever ?
Speaker 3Oh , because they're getting money . But , yeah , before someone walks into an office , they should go . Why am I doing this ? Yeah , and honestly I think people should grieve the fuck out of a loss before they actually go glow up . That's a really good like go glow up yeah yeah , glow up as hell , but like get your revenge , but like after you fully process the grieving . And that's the problem , I think , is that we just don't tend to do that . We don't know how to grieve .
Speaker 1I think that's the problem I think is that we just don't tend to do that . We don't know how to grieve . I think .
Speaker 3That's a good , that's a great topic . We don't know how to grieve Grief is like .
Speaker 1I mean , we've both been through grief recently . You know , like even just with death . It's like it's so nonlinear , it's so just out of nowhere , just comes and hits you . It's just it's , but you don't know what to do with it . And then it comes out in other ways and you try to fill the hole with other things aka plastic surgery and things like that .
Speaker 3Yeah , all we know what to do is to get lips . Thank you , Dr Ciroc I love my lips .
Speaker 1I'll be seeing you soon . We love you .
Speaker 3But yeah , that's all we know how to do nowadays . It feels and then with the beauty standards it just keeps going , and also our lifestyles being presented on TikTok and all these things right , we like have all these standards to live up to . So everything is about how it seems . And skincare can , I think , like fall . Maybe not skincare as much can like fall into that ?
Speaker 1What do you think ?
Speaker 3Do you think beauty is a skincare can be a gateway to something dangerous .
Speaker 1I yeah , I think that people get obsessed with it . I think people get obsessed with products . I'm not , I mean , I don't not like products , but like we're not sponsored by products .
Speaker 2We need to bleep that the last 30 minutes out .
Speaker 1So like . But I've seen people who have everything like they , literally anything they see they buy . If it's now it's tiktok , it's like now they buy everything they see on tiktok , that's right , everything on instagram , and , and they're targeting you so I mean , and they're going into debt , I mean that's . And then on top of that , with the plastic surgery and stuff like that . So , yeah , I do feel like I think , especially with I guess we're more , let's see with skincare itself , yeah , because there are people who out there who are trying every single thing , yeah , and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to make their skin look different than it does I think that's one of my points actually yeah I think one of my points is one of the questions we could like , we could , you know , we could present .
Speaker 3Is this making you feel more like you're happy you , or is this making you , or are you doing this to feel like someone else or something else or change ?
Speaker 2Or to not feel whatever it is , or to just to not feel , just to not feel that Underneath it all , yeah , no that's so smart .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's to not feel the thing at all . And I think the same thing goes with filtering Like isn't filtering a trauma response ? I mean , aren't we looking around comparing ourselves to other filtered bodies and then filtering ourselves ? And then you know , if I see my phone and it happens to like open and I look over , like this . I'm like , ah , that's trauma . Who is that ?
Speaker 2monster . I haven't seen her in years . Just that's strong . Who is that monster ? I haven't seen her in years . Just you know , no filter mirrors have no filters and I , I have .
Speaker 3I have no time for that . No , you have no time for mirrors . I have to look at my phone .
Speaker 2I love it through the .
Speaker 1I have to filter it I did not , by the way , this is slightly off topic , but we were um . You know , we were moving because we just got a house , as we were selling it yeah , um I didn't look in the mirror for about three days and then we were going to go pick up something from Facebook Marketplace and I realized I had eye makeup all underneath my eyes .
Speaker 1I looked I look like I live in the desert really so yeah , but it was just kind of interesting , like I really just didn't care about looking in the mirror . Yeah , and you look great .
Speaker 2You didn't do anything .
Speaker 3I'm not looking great , but yeah Was it nice , did it feel freeing for you ?
Speaker 1It did . When I realized it , I was like holy shit , I have not even looked in the mirror . I didn't take a shower either so there's that that's so funny .
Speaker 3So it has it . And you've brought this up a couple times where , like , you feel like when you take a break from your own vanity , right in a sense , or like looking at a mirror , it gives you relief , absolutely , yeah , you're just , you can come back to it and you're like , oh my god , wow , I took a break for a minute and I felt like my authentic self because I let it go we're so identified with what we see in the mirror looking back at us .
Speaker 1I don't want to look at that and say that that's what I am , and I only feel good if it looks a certain way . I know I'd rather just walk past the mirror if possible . Yeah , yeah , yeah , and that's also probably a trauma response too .
Speaker 3Well , yeah , I mean , we kind of touched on that last time Like , a lot of people will avoid looking in the mirror because they're avoiding the threat , and the saddest thing is is that the threat is just their own face right , and part of that , I think , is because we're over filtering everything and we don't really know what we look like anymore , I mean , and we get like addicted to it . Like I noticed myself , I used to love how
Filters, Self-Image, and Body Perception
Speaker 3I looked on .
Speaker 3uh , I work on zoom sorry yeah and you know , there's that little like fix your parents thing , I didn't know about for a long time . Then some motherfucker told me about it , so I pushed it up a little bit and I was like oh my lord , I look so good on zoom . I'm I'm getting sick from it now , because I now look at it and it's like not filtered enough , in a weird way .
Speaker 2You started to get used to that thing .
Speaker 3I started to actually get used to it Like it's that bad .
Speaker 2That makes sense Totally .
Speaker 3Because our brains just automate things . They don't know that they're doing it , they're supposed to do it . It's a survival technique where we make things that we see in our environment normalized Right and then so we're seeing this filtered images of ourselves and then it becomes normalized and then we see the real human us for like a second and it's so sad because it's horrifying it's like trying to look for the little thing that put on the mirror to go like that .
Speaker 3So like yeah , yeah , I want to push it up more and more until I'm just like a blob and they're like , they're talking to me and I'm just like , hello , I'm not AI , but I look like I am yeah it's just pixels , exactly . Oh , my God , what were you going to say ?
Speaker 2No , I was going to say it's kind of like they're going to I feel like that's the next thing is like a mirror that's going , or just give everybody glasses for them .
Speaker 1when they look at you Say I would like everyone to go ahead and put on their .
Speaker 3These glasses so they can see me how I want you to see me Holy shit Put on Paris . This is some dark mirror shit . I was going to say that's a better idea than I had .
Speaker 2I was going to walk up to everybody and smear Vaseline in their eyes .
Speaker 1And be like , oh , is that .
Speaker 2And they're like oh my God , and oh my god . I'm like yeah , aren't I glowing it's like a 70s yeah , like murder mystery . It's like we watched , do you ?
Speaker 3think that's why , as old people , we start to get a little blind probably , probably so that we can like , tolerate each other as like real people and we forget and we forget things .
Speaker 1People stay together on purpose .
Speaker 2We forget things on purpose because we're like oh well you know , like 92 . Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 3Those aren't warts on his back .
Speaker 2No .
Speaker 3Yeah , those are his freckles .
Speaker 1I forgot , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2They're like when there's no warts . What are they ? Birth marks ?
Speaker 1Birth marks .
Speaker 2I love that people . It's a birth mark . It's like , yeah , you weren't , you were born a long time ago .
Speaker 3Just say it's an adult mark now . Adult mark . Yeah , I'm going camping tomorrow .
Speaker 2Are you going camping tomorrow ? Yes , I'm going to .
Speaker 3Sequoia National Park for the next three days . Oh my God , I'm actually terrified because I read something about bears .
Speaker 2Oh , Okay , and now I'm in this space , read one more thing about bears before you read . Don't read just something .
Speaker 3Read more something . Read more things , because it'll scare the shit out of you . I read one thing and then I started reading a lot of things .
Speaker 3Um , and so now I'm actually kind of terrified to go , but I am excited for the beauty experience of not caring about how I look or smell for a couple days and just like kayaking and hiking , and I I actually wanted to say as like another point , and I don't know if it's like looking in the mirror or not looking in the mirror , because I think that's different for different people but I do think that making beauty an important part of our lives because we do have to take care of ourselves , obviously , but maybe making it like 10 to 20% of our lives is probably a good goal .
Speaker 3So it's like going camping , it's going to be a very little part of my life and I just get to explore and be , you know , an aging hippie and for a couple of days and you know , and I and I can come back and I can go to work and I can worry about my appearance again , but I'm giving myself space from it and it sounds like that's what you've got to is a little space from it . I like that and you put it in its place . You're like I do beauty all the time , but I can put it in my place too yeah , I'm okay with not seeing it .
Speaker 1Um , what was I gonna say about that too ? Uh , um , oh , being with somebody that you know likes the way that you look , um , is very helpful too , because and he'll like the pictures that where I look the worst he's like oh , you look so pretty in that . I'm like are you fucking serious ?
Speaker 3I'm fucking serious yeah my husband does that too , and I always got mad at him before yeah , I should not you're well , because you're , I would get mad , because is that how you see me ?
Speaker 1that's what I look like . Yeah , but they , I think they're filling in the blanks . But that just or or or . You see yourself completely , they're filling in the blanks , or you see yourself completely different . They're seeing the filtered you ?
Speaker 3Yes , totally . Oh , my God , I'm pre-filtered Through their beer-goggled bell eyes .
Speaker 2I turn around and I have Vaseline on my face .
Speaker 1Oh my God , you love me , I love you so much , oh my God , but I feel comfortable not brushing my hair or washing my face or doing whatever , because I , my hair or you know washing my face or doing whatever , and because I know that it doesn't turn him off um , and so that's really helpful .
Speaker 3It's more like a dimmer switch it's a that's hilarious they do actually say for people that have body dysmorphia to like to identify the people in your life that really would love you , despite what you look like or like or that , or even just find you sexy as you are , the essence of you plus how you look but also in an unlike , in an not in like , a somewhat unbiased way , where we are so overly critical and biased of ourselves . Yeah , I think that's really beautiful . I think it's good for us to identify that and have partners that love us for who we are and love our ugly pictures .
Speaker 1Yeah , Do you think people struggle , though , with when they have somebody that says something like hey , that's a good picture of you , or you look so pretty and you really don't feel it , or your body looks hot and you're like , I feel fat , there's a certain degree of disbelief , yeah , and so I don't even . I mean , I believe you now , you know after 13 years , but , like , sometimes I just don't believe it . You know , like if somebody says something or like , or even if I think they believe it , I still don't believe it , and so , like it's not affecting me in a good way necessarily , because it's just sort of bouncing off me .
Speaker 2So you're saying if you don't believe something yourself , if somebody gives you a compliment or whatever ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm like you're stupid .
Speaker 2Yeah , people are definitely stupid . You're right on that .
Speaker 3So we call that ego dystonic , Okay what's that you ?
Speaker 1guys like these words ? Right , I do . Oh , my God .
Speaker 3So how you've identified it in your ego , is that like it has to be this way ? So your ego says it's like , has to be this way , and so what the person is saying , or what the thought is , or the belief is , is dystonic , right , or like . We love that word , god . What's happening to ?
Speaker 2me right now . It keeps drying here . Please clear your throat before we record . I'm so tired of people clearing their throat , you know what I'm going to do .
Speaker 1I'm going to do .
Speaker 2I'm going to do a normal adult thing Take a little sip of water . Yeah , go for it . Maybe I'll try that . I feel like when I was a kid I never blew my nose and people are like just blow your nose . I'm like , no , I don't understand Just clear your throat , blow your nose .
Speaker 1Just go to the bathroom . Why are you ?
Speaker 3holding it all day so egotistonic . Sometimes people criticize CBT therapy , which is cognitive behavioral therapy , which is the therapy where you reframe your thoughts . People call it sometimes gaslighting , because essentially you're just going like you know , you're changing the thought to a positive one and it's like that doesn't feel true for my narrative or for my life or who I believe I am .
Speaker 3So there's some criticism around that type of therapy for those reasons . But I would say if it is someone you trust
Trusting Others' Perceptions of Our Beauty
Speaker 3and you , if it is someone that you have any respect for , you should try your best . And this is not easy , because I do the same thing . If my husband says I look good in the picture , that I think I look like Shannon yeah .
Speaker 3I'm like what is wrong with you ? I hate you for thinking that and I really shouldn't , because I respect him and I respect his . I actually like the things that he likes and I think that he has great taste . So if he likes me , then maybe I'm kind of great right , and so I think you could try to empower that person in your mind . Give them a little more revenants . Give them a little bit you know what I mean Like revere the fact that he thinks it Go like . You know what I could be wrong , yeah .
Speaker 1That's interesting , it's hard to admit .
Speaker 2Well , because I mean you're saying that I could be wrong . Once your brain is like no , that's it . As much as you want to let that in , you're still defaulted back to like no . This is not the way I see myself .
Speaker 3I can't see myself like this that's right , but ultimately in therapy , that's what we're trying to do all the time we're trying to change how you see yourself a lot of the time , how you think of yourself , how you narrate the story yeah and so usually half the time is me trying to get people to feel like I am a an ally , in order for them to trust what I'm saying .
Speaker 3Okay , yeah , right , and so he's an ally . So if he says that you look good , maybe maybe you could be wrong , maybe you can make some space for it . What do you think You're like ? Nope , nevermind , no . Like nope , never mind , no , no . I do .
Speaker 1Here's what I do , though in the meantime . Though , yeah , I look okay , so I may not look at myself and see what he sees , but I'll look for it in another place where , like it's , it's all body related . For me it's not face yeah , so like if , because I have something in my head that says , like you , I can't have a certain , you know , I have to have a flat stomach , which I can't because of this . We talked about this , yeah , so um nikki was born with another head .
Speaker 2Down there got it instead of a belly button she has . Uh , uh . Actually it's a baby with his hands going like this and jazz hands so she's really self-conscious about it . I do that , yeah , oh my god I do wish I could put like a little piano under and play the piano while we're . That's not what I was thinking , but yeah , oh , oh that's disgusting yeah , no , it's not we've all seen total recall right oh , with three boobs , quattro , no , come on man , okay .
Speaker 2No , it's been a while I thought it was alien alien came out of here . But then there was the I think the guy turns into . He comes out like this alien comes out . So anybody , if anybody's watched Total Recall , write it in the comments and remember this , just feel it in your body .
Speaker 1Feel it in your body .
Speaker 3That's so funny , alright , so let me , let me just get this out .
Speaker 1Let's get this , do it , it's hard because it's hard for me to actually verbalize what I'm trying to say . So I get a lot of ads in my algorithm for bathing suits . I don't know if we mentioned that before . I used to get it . It was all skinny . I was all skinny girls in bathing suits . Yeah , I , I stopped liking . I don't like it even I would just like stop paying attention to it . It I guess it figures it out . And then I start spending more time looking at the ones where it's like a girl with a real body who might kind of look like me and I'm like looking at them going . Well , I think she's attractive and that looks like this . So now I can believe that this is attractive . If I believe it if I see it on somebody else .
Speaker 3I like that . So you want to see real bodies .
Speaker 1I want to see real bodies and especially like to see someone that has something that I think I have not . You know what I mean .
Speaker 3You're exactly . You're talking about what I said earlier . Basically , the filtering is a trauma response to like other filtering . You're saying that , like models wearing bathing suits has traumatized you .
Speaker 1Absolutely , yeah , absolutely , I think that's right ?
Speaker 3I think that is absolutely right . I think that a lot of beauty and a lot of our compulsions to do things are because we have been traumatized by beauty in general and it's kind of normalized , so it almost seems like it's like you can't be traumatized by that , because it's like an everyday thing .
Speaker 2But if you're inundated with something continuously , that becomes a normal .
Speaker 1Well , yeah , and it's making people money for you to be traumatized .
Speaker 3Well , yeah , yeah , and it's a compound complex trauma , daily compound , complex trauma , that's happening .
Speaker 1Yeah , where we shouldn't ?
Speaker 3we're not supposed to feel our feelings ? I think last time I taught you that we often will feel feelings and then interject them onto our own bodies . Remember that , like if you're angry a lot of times , women can't be angry at like the person . Yes , they turn it inward right . So we're now ? We're avoiding grief , we're turning in our , our anger , we're not addressing any of our feelings . And then also , what gives us any credibility in this world ?
Speaker 1it's our looks , at least we think , that's what we think , yeah what do you think different men is it ?
Speaker 3is it there ? Is it growing ? How do you feel about your credibility in your looks space , or do you feel free there ?
Speaker 2I kind of almost feel like there's not much I can do other than like be healthy myself that that's what really changes it , because I don't really like , I don't wash my face no , I don't wash my face .
Speaker 3I just , men , just don't feel the same pressure yeah , I don't feel this .
Speaker 2I kind of feel the pressure that I feel unless they're gay to do ? Yes , well , I haven't I haven't been gay for a long time yeah , yeah , so you got out of it .
Speaker 3I love that yeah , well , I didn't get out of it once it's in you , it's always in you .
Speaker 2I didn't mean that . I meant I meant people that I've been with , no um , but no , I feel like like my body itself , like I'll be like , oh , I need to lose weight , because that's never the thing , like I'm always , but as far as like face goes , I never really am concerned with it because I'm like there's not much I can do other than either , you know , exercise , take care of myself physically , and then I feel better about myself , and then I feel like you , practice acceptance . I guess , yeah , I guess Okay .
Speaker 1I'm going to stop you just for one second so no , we're going to do a part two on this , so we're going to take a quick break . Saunders going to put money in the meter yeah and then we're going to actually start part two and then , if anybody needs to pee , we'll do that . So , um , it was great seeing you and we'll see you next week for part two . Bye .
