{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":10.139,"endTime":13.769,"body":"welcome back everyone to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":10.139,"endTime":13.769,"body":"another episode of transcending"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":13.769,"endTime":19.529,"body":"humanity podcast. Thank you all"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":13.769,"endTime":19.529,"body":"for joining us today. This is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":19.529,"endTime":24.749,"body":"episode 19. And it is all about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":19.529,"endTime":24.749,"body":"gender diversity. I'm your host"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":24.749,"endTime":28.229,"body":"for today's episode. My name is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":24.749,"endTime":28.229,"body":"Jess Bradley, my pronouns are"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":28.229,"endTime":32.549,"body":"they them. And I am joined today"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":28.229,"endTime":32.549,"body":"by our lovely executive"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":32.549,"endTime":37.499,"body":"producer, Vanessa Joy and our"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":32.549,"endTime":37.499,"body":"special guest, Shea Barnes, who"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":37.499,"endTime":40.709,"body":"I'll introduce in just a moment."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":37.499,"endTime":40.709,"body":"But let's start with Vanessa,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":41.489,"endTime":44.249,"body":"would you like to introduce"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":41.489,"endTime":44.249,"body":"yourself? And would you also"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":44.249,"endTime":47.669,"body":"humor me with my icebreaker"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":44.249,"endTime":47.669,"body":"question today? A little summer"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":47.669,"endTime":50.309,"body":"question, which is what is your"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":47.669,"endTime":50.309,"body":"favorite kind of ice cream?"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":50.789,"endTime":55.289,"body":"Oh, to hear? Well, I am"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":50.789,"endTime":55.289,"body":"Vanessa. I am the obnoxious one"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":55.289,"endTime":57.989,"body":"on the podcast and I must be the"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":55.289,"endTime":57.989,"body":"one that does all of the editing"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":57.989,"endTime":61.439,"body":"and everything. So I suppose you"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":57.989,"endTime":61.439,"body":"can call me the executive"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":61.439,"endTime":66.389,"body":"producer. Wonderful volunteer"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":61.439,"endTime":66.389,"body":"position. You can find me on"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":66.419,"endTime":71.099,"body":"pretty much all socials, except"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":66.419,"endTime":71.099,"body":"for the evil one at Ben"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":71.099,"endTime":77.459,"body":"Australia. But my favorite ice"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":71.099,"endTime":77.459,"body":"cream I like at Dark Chocolate"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":77.609,"endTime":80.339,"body":"Brownie ice cream. So like a"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":77.609,"endTime":80.339,"body":"dark chocolate ice cream with"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":80.339,"endTime":84.719,"body":"brownie. And then if I can find"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":80.339,"endTime":84.719,"body":"some raspberry sauce and put on"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":84.719,"endTime":88.319,"body":"it. That'd be amazing. And if I"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":84.719,"endTime":88.319,"body":"could put it on top of a"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":88.319,"endTime":91.679,"body":"brownie, and it's even more"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":88.319,"endTime":91.679,"body":"amazing, so very specific."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":91.71,"endTime":93.39,"body":"I know that sounds really"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":91.71,"endTime":93.39,"body":"delicious."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":93.42,"endTime":96.84,"body":"It's really good. Ice"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":93.42,"endTime":96.84,"body":"cream place near me that they"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":96.84,"endTime":100.47,"body":"don't have the raspberry but"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":96.84,"endTime":100.47,"body":"they do everything else. So it's"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":100.47,"endTime":101.16,"body":"very good."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":101.34,"endTime":103.77,"body":"Yeah. Oh, it's taste that."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":103.83,"endTime":105.18,"body":"Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":105.6,"endTime":107.4,"body":"Now I'm now I'm craving"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":105.6,"endTime":107.4,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":107.729,"endTime":109.319,"body":"This is why I'm not"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":107.729,"endTime":109.319,"body":"losing weight."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":109.0,"endTime":115.75,"body":"All right. Well, thank you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":109.0,"endTime":115.75,"body":"so much for coasting with me"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":115.75,"endTime":120.55,"body":"today, Vanessa. And now our"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":115.75,"endTime":120.55,"body":"guest for this episode is as I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":120.55,"endTime":123.91,"body":"said before the fabulous Che"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":120.55,"endTime":123.91,"body":"Barnes. Che, could you please"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":123.94,"endTime":126.94,"body":"introduce yourself? And also"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":123.94,"endTime":126.94,"body":"please tell us your favorite ice"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":126.94,"endTime":127.75,"body":"cream flavor?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":128.8,"endTime":132.22,"body":"I love it. So yeah, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":128.8,"endTime":132.22,"body":"Che Barnes. My pronouns are she"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":132.22,"endTime":136.81,"body":"had eight then. And so gosh,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":132.22,"endTime":136.81,"body":"favorite ice cream flavor. You"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":136.81,"endTime":140.92,"body":"know what I think it might be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":136.81,"endTime":140.92,"body":"like a cherry. Which might sound"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":140.92,"endTime":143.59,"body":"crazy is kind of one of those"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":140.92,"endTime":143.59,"body":"things that you don't get very"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":143.59,"endTime":147.67,"body":"often. But when you get a really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":143.59,"endTime":147.67,"body":"good, really good cherry ice"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":147.67,"endTime":151.51,"body":"cream with actual like chunks of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":147.67,"endTime":151.51,"body":"delicious fruit in there, then"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":151.54,"endTime":156.01,"body":"yeah. That's pretty good stuff."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":151.54,"endTime":156.01,"body":"And so yes, I'm a gender"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":156.01,"endTime":160.57,"body":"diversity educator, and trainer."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":156.01,"endTime":160.57,"body":"And yeah, I deliver talks and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":160.57,"endTime":163.72,"body":"workshops, have an online"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":160.57,"endTime":163.72,"body":"course. And do lots of things"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":163.72,"endTime":166.48,"body":"like that introducing slightly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":163.72,"endTime":166.48,"body":"different framework for"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":166.48,"endTime":169.24,"body":"understanding gender diversity."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":166.48,"endTime":169.24,"body":"So yeah, that's me."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":169.84,"endTime":173.23,"body":"Yay. Well, thank you."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":169.84,"endTime":173.23,"body":"Thank you for that introduction."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":173.23,"endTime":176.74,"body":"And that ice cream also sounds"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":173.23,"endTime":176.74,"body":"really delicious with chunks of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":176.74,"endTime":181.15,"body":"cherry. I don't know if I've"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":176.74,"endTime":181.15,"body":"ever had a cherry ice cream, but"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":181.15,"endTime":185.2,"body":"I will definitely try it if I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":181.15,"endTime":185.2,"body":"come across it now that now that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":185.2,"endTime":190.15,"body":"I got that great recommendation."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":185.2,"endTime":190.15,"body":"Well, I asked Che to be on this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":190.15,"endTime":193.72,"body":"episode today because I have"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":190.15,"endTime":193.72,"body":"been impressed by their work on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":193.72,"endTime":197.77,"body":"gender diversity, most of which"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":193.72,"endTime":197.77,"body":"I've seen on LinkedIn so far,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":197.77,"endTime":200.89,"body":"but I am looking forward to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":197.77,"endTime":200.89,"body":"doing your course just haven't"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":200.89,"endTime":205.69,"body":"had the time yet. But I thought"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":200.89,"endTime":205.69,"body":"it would be fun to talk more"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":205.69,"endTime":209.95,"body":"about your work here on the pod."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":205.69,"endTime":209.95,"body":"And I'm going to mention to prep"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":209.95,"endTime":213.43,"body":"for this conversation. I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":209.95,"endTime":213.43,"body":"listened to the most recent"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":213.43,"endTime":217.69,"body":"episode of the LinkedIn live"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":213.43,"endTime":217.69,"body":"event series nonbinary corner"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":218.41,"endTime":222.34,"body":"that is hosted by Margie"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":218.41,"endTime":222.34,"body":"Marchetti, Lou Costello, and B"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":222.34,"endTime":226.24,"body":"Gilmore. Apologies if I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":222.34,"endTime":226.24,"body":"mispronounce any of those names,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":226.24,"endTime":229.75,"body":"but those are the hosts of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":226.24,"endTime":229.75,"body":"nonbinary corner. I just want to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":229.84,"endTime":232.81,"body":"let our listeners know about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":229.84,"endTime":232.81,"body":"that. If you liked this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":232.81,"endTime":236.08,"body":"conversation, check out that one"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":232.81,"endTime":236.08,"body":"too, because it was really"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":236.08,"endTime":241.78,"body":"great. So without further ado,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":236.08,"endTime":241.78,"body":"let's get into it. I've got some"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":241.78,"endTime":246.82,"body":"questions for Che. And really"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":241.78,"endTime":246.82,"body":"the first one is what led you to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":246.82,"endTime":250.39,"body":"this path of becoming a gender"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":246.82,"endTime":250.39,"body":"diversity trainer."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":251.97,"endTime":256.08,"body":"Yeah, so there's two"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":251.97,"endTime":256.08,"body":"strands. There aren't the gender"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":256.08,"endTime":260.49,"body":"diversity and the trainer"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":256.08,"endTime":260.49,"body":"things. So training has always"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":260.49,"endTime":262.74,"body":"been something I just want to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":260.49,"endTime":262.74,"body":"apologize straight up. I have a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":262.74,"endTime":266.22,"body":"little bit of a bug going on."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":262.74,"endTime":266.22,"body":"It's COVID. It's the dreaded C"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":266.22,"endTime":270.84,"body":"word. So I'm a little bit kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":266.22,"endTime":270.84,"body":"of like throaty. But yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":270.84,"endTime":274.26,"body":"training has been something I've"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":270.84,"endTime":274.26,"body":"always loved. And I kind of if I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.38,"body":"track back through my entire"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.38,"body":"career, I had like 15 years in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":277.38,"endTime":281.37,"body":"corporate as a senior manager."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":277.38,"endTime":281.37,"body":"But invariably, I'd be the one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":281.37,"endTime":284.22,"body":"that would end up on a stage in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":281.37,"endTime":284.22,"body":"front of the whole kind of like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":284.22,"endTime":288.69,"body":"staff team talking about things"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":284.22,"endTime":288.69,"body":"and I love that I love taking"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":288.69,"endTime":292.02,"body":"complex stuff, simplifying it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":288.69,"endTime":292.02,"body":"down and explaining it to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":292.02,"endTime":294.78,"body":"people. I just love doing that."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":292.02,"endTime":294.78,"body":"So trainings always been a thing"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":294.78,"endTime":300.36,"body":"for me. Gender Diversity started"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":294.78,"endTime":300.36,"body":"for me with a dislike I can"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":300.36,"endTime":304.65,"body":"inherently inbuilt dislike and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":300.36,"endTime":304.65,"body":"repulsion around gender"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":304.65,"endTime":309.36,"body":"disparity. So between men and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":304.65,"endTime":309.36,"body":"women, and so in the corporate"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":309.36,"endTime":313.02,"body":"world, I experienced a lot of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":309.36,"endTime":313.02,"body":"kind of sexism or certainly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":313.05,"endTime":317.07,"body":"assumptions and projections on"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":313.05,"endTime":317.07,"body":"how I should behave because I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":317.07,"endTime":322.2,"body":"was a woman. And I found that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":317.07,"endTime":322.2,"body":"really quite uncomfortable. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.23,"body":"I'd noticed that some behaviors"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":322.23,"endTime":325.23,"body":"that other people were allowed"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":325.26,"endTime":327.9,"body":"to do, like swearing in the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":325.26,"endTime":327.9,"body":"boardroom, were frowned on when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":327.9,"endTime":331.89,"body":"I did it. And I didn't really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":327.9,"endTime":331.89,"body":"like that. And so it started me"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":331.89,"endTime":335.52,"body":"down a journey of investigating"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":331.89,"endTime":335.52,"body":"what really is the difference"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":335.52,"endTime":338.91,"body":"between us like really, like,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":335.52,"endTime":338.91,"body":"you know, kind of why why do we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":338.91,"endTime":343.23,"body":"allow boys, somethings and girls"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":338.91,"endTime":343.23,"body":"other things? And why do we have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":343.23,"endTime":348.24,"body":"these assumptions? And I kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":343.23,"endTime":348.24,"body":"started down that road. And one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":348.24,"endTime":352.2,"body":"of the things I came across on"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":348.24,"endTime":352.2,"body":"my path was a lot of professors"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":352.2,"endTime":356.04,"body":"in the biology space,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":352.2,"endTime":356.04,"body":"essentially saying that sex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":356.04,"endTime":359.37,"body":"isn't binary, like so. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":356.04,"endTime":359.37,"body":"had this understanding that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":359.37,"endTime":362.31,"body":"gender isn't binary, you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":359.37,"endTime":362.31,"body":"and there are lots of different"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":362.31,"endTime":366.24,"body":"gender kind of manifestations"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":362.31,"endTime":366.24,"body":"and expressions. But the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":366.24,"endTime":371.91,"body":"biological sex was not binary."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":366.24,"endTime":371.91,"body":"And I was a bit like, why. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":371.91,"endTime":377.28,"body":"so I went on this huge kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":371.91,"endTime":377.28,"body":"like, rabbit hole tangent, where"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":377.28,"endTime":380.31,"body":"I just started researching"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":377.28,"endTime":380.31,"body":"biological sex and its non"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":380.31,"endTime":384.36,"body":"binary nature and doing loads of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":380.31,"endTime":384.36,"body":"investigation and essentially"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":384.36,"endTime":387.72,"body":"totally satisfied myself that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":384.36,"endTime":387.72,"body":"biological sex wasn't binary."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":387.99,"endTime":390.69,"body":"And then I think, you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":387.99,"endTime":390.69,"body":"that's when I started overlaying"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":390.69,"endTime":393.84,"body":"it with gender diversity, or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":390.69,"endTime":393.84,"body":"gender identity. And so I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":393.84,"endTime":397.02,"body":"thinking Hold on, neither of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":393.84,"endTime":397.02,"body":"these things are binary. Maybe"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":397.02,"endTime":399.39,"body":"they actually tie up in some"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":397.02,"endTime":399.39,"body":"way, maybe there is a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":399.39,"endTime":404.16,"body":"physiological underpinning to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":399.39,"endTime":404.16,"body":"our felt gender identity and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":404.16,"endTime":408.21,"body":"experience. So yeah, that was my"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":404.16,"endTime":408.21,"body":"little, my little path into this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":408.21,"endTime":411.78,"body":"arena. And the more I've gone"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":408.21,"endTime":411.78,"body":"along the path and more"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":411.78,"endTime":414.84,"body":"passionate I've become, the more"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":411.78,"endTime":414.84,"body":"stuff I found that has just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":414.84,"endTime":421.26,"body":"totally exploded what I thought"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":414.84,"endTime":421.26,"body":"I knew into smithereens. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":421.26,"endTime":423.3,"body":"so now I'm really passionate"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":421.26,"endTime":423.3,"body":"about sharing that."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":424.98,"endTime":428.31,"body":"Wow, that's, that is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":424.98,"endTime":428.31,"body":"great. That is that is pretty"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":428.31,"endTime":433.41,"body":"fascinating. And that's really,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":428.31,"endTime":433.41,"body":"I'm glad you brought up just the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":433.59,"endTime":437.25,"body":"fact that sex, biological sex is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":433.59,"endTime":437.25,"body":"also a spectrum, because that's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.64,"body":"really one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":437.28,"endTime":440.64,"body":"has fascinated me about your"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":440.64,"endTime":446.34,"body":"work, I as well have long known"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":440.64,"endTime":446.34,"body":"that gender was a spectrum, but"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":446.34,"endTime":450.03,"body":"kind of still had in my head"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":446.34,"endTime":450.03,"body":"that, you know, biological sex"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":450.03,"endTime":455.07,"body":"was, was binary and, and more"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":450.03,"endTime":455.07,"body":"and more information has come"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":455.07,"endTime":458.79,"body":"out more and more research and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":455.07,"endTime":458.79,"body":"studies, kind of showing"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":458.79,"endTime":463.5,"body":"improving, giving various"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":458.79,"endTime":463.5,"body":"examples of sex, biological sex"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":463.5,"endTime":467.88,"body":"being a spectrum as well. And I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":463.5,"endTime":467.88,"body":"know that you often use a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":467.88,"endTime":470.97,"body":"examples from nature to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":467.88,"endTime":470.97,"body":"highlight this to show that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":470.97,"endTime":473.58,"body":"it's, it's not even just humans"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":470.97,"endTime":473.58,"body":"with our big brains coming up"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":473.58,"endTime":477.48,"body":"with this idea, but that there"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":473.58,"endTime":477.48,"body":"are also examples in the animal"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":477.48,"endTime":481.32,"body":"kingdom. And I'll kind of lead"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":477.48,"endTime":481.32,"body":"into that a little bit. So I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":481.35,"endTime":485.22,"body":"I've, you know, I've read that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":481.35,"endTime":485.22,"body":"there is a and you've talked"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":485.22,"endTime":487.53,"body":"about that there's a pride of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":485.22,"endTime":487.53,"body":"lions that's been observed in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":487.53,"endTime":491.58,"body":"Botswana, where there's a group"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":487.53,"endTime":491.58,"body":"of female lions who began to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":491.58,"endTime":496.56,"body":"grow mains, and act more like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":491.58,"endTime":496.56,"body":"the male lions, and the Alpha"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":496.56,"endTime":502.05,"body":"trans lion grew the biggest"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":496.56,"endTime":502.05,"body":"mane. And could you talk about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":502.05,"endTime":504.57,"body":"that a little bit? Is there"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":502.05,"endTime":504.57,"body":"anything big on leaving out? Or"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":504.57,"endTime":506.91,"body":"you know, are they still being"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":504.57,"endTime":506.91,"body":"observed?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":508.23,"endTime":510.93,"body":"Yeah, it's fascinating. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":508.23,"endTime":510.93,"body":"I mean, if you do a Google"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":510.93,"endTime":514.77,"body":"search on lioness with mean,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":510.93,"endTime":514.77,"body":"you'll find lots of examples. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":514.77,"endTime":518.7,"body":"it's not just the one pride but"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":514.77,"endTime":518.7,"body":"I like that one pride because of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":519.39,"endTime":523.68,"body":"you. Yeah. How it essentially"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":519.39,"endTime":523.68,"body":"evidences that there was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":523.68,"endTime":526.2,"body":"something that happened in that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":523.68,"endTime":526.2,"body":"environment and in the social"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":526.2,"endTime":528.15,"body":"structure and like, well, we'll"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":526.2,"endTime":528.15,"body":"get on to kind of like the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":528.15,"endTime":531.9,"body":"Watson how's this but at the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":528.15,"endTime":531.9,"body":"same point in time, five"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":531.93,"endTime":535.44,"body":"lionesses started growing manes,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":531.93,"endTime":535.44,"body":"and started doing things like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":535.44,"endTime":538.89,"body":"marking their territory and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":535.44,"endTime":538.89,"body":"roaring, which are kind of like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":538.89,"endTime":542.49,"body":"more male kind of behaviors, and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":538.89,"endTime":542.49,"body":"they were fighting a bit more"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":542.49,"endTime":545.97,"body":"bit of infighting happening. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":542.49,"endTime":545.97,"body":"yeah, there was definitely this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":545.97,"endTime":549.48,"body":"point where one of them kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":545.97,"endTime":549.48,"body":"won so there was this like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":549.48,"endTime":552.54,"body":"sparring between these five"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":549.48,"endTime":552.54,"body":"lionesses that were all green"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":552.54,"endTime":556.77,"body":"memes, and the one that one, her"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":552.54,"endTime":556.77,"body":"name continued to grow, whereas"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":556.77,"endTime":560.31,"body":"the ones that didn't when their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":556.77,"endTime":560.31,"body":"memes receded and shrink back,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":560.31,"endTime":564.27,"body":"so it was like it wasn't like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":560.31,"endTime":564.27,"body":"there was something genetic that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":564.27,"endTime":567.69,"body":"happened that these five"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":564.27,"endTime":567.69,"body":"lionesses suddenly pass some"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":567.69,"endTime":570.99,"body":"kind of pubescent point or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":567.69,"endTime":570.99,"body":"something. And something changed"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":570.99,"endTime":574.08,"body":"in their physiology. There was a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":570.99,"endTime":574.08,"body":"point at which all five of them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":574.08,"endTime":577.08,"body":"somehow went as if to do"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":574.08,"endTime":577.08,"body":"something, one of them one and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":577.08,"endTime":581.22,"body":"then the others went back. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":577.08,"endTime":581.22,"body":"there's a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":581.22,"endTime":584.94,"body":"kind of suggestion there of some"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":581.22,"endTime":584.94,"body":"kind of fluidity and some kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":584.94,"endTime":590.22,"body":"of changeability in biological"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":584.94,"endTime":590.22,"body":"sex and so we see this in all"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":590.22,"endTime":593.7,"body":"sorts of different species. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":590.22,"endTime":593.7,"body":"in a Ranga tangs, there's a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":593.7,"endTime":597.36,"body":"fluidity to their secondary"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":593.7,"endTime":597.36,"body":"sexual characteristics. So their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":597.36,"endTime":600.0,"body":"cheeks get bigger when they win"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":597.36,"endTime":600.0,"body":"the fight and they shrink when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.18,"body":"then they lose the fight. And so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.18,"body":"they kind of they're more male"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":603.18,"endTime":605.67,"body":"or less male, depending on"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":603.18,"endTime":605.67,"body":"what's happening with their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":605.67,"endTime":609.63,"body":"social structure, and social"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":605.67,"endTime":609.63,"body":"environment. So, yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":609.63,"endTime":611.61,"body":"this really interesting thing."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":609.63,"endTime":611.61,"body":"And there's lots of other"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":611.61,"endTime":616.35,"body":"lionesses where there are memes"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":611.61,"endTime":616.35,"body":"have developed. And I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":616.35,"endTime":618.6,"body":"something that's really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":616.35,"endTime":618.6,"body":"interesting is researchers often"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":618.6,"endTime":621.51,"body":"say, Well, there's obviously"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":618.6,"endTime":621.51,"body":"some kind of testosterone"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":621.51,"endTime":625.14,"body":"variation as if that means that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":621.51,"endTime":625.14,"body":"it's not anything to do with"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":625.14,"endTime":630.03,"body":"like, a transition or something."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":625.14,"endTime":630.03,"body":"Whereas my sense is that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":630.03,"endTime":633.36,"body":"hormones fluctuate, stress,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":630.03,"endTime":633.36,"body":"hormones fluctuate, sex hormones"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":633.36,"endTime":637.17,"body":"fluctuate, and they can"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":633.36,"endTime":637.17,"body":"fluctuate based on an internal"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":637.17,"endTime":640.65,"body":"thing that they're reacting to,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":637.17,"endTime":640.65,"body":"but they can also change in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":640.65,"endTime":643.92,"body":"relation to external"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":640.65,"endTime":643.92,"body":"environment. And so this idea"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":643.92,"endTime":647.7,"body":"that hormonal variations might"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":643.92,"endTime":647.7,"body":"result in changes to our"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":647.7,"endTime":652.32,"body":"physiology is something that I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":647.7,"endTime":652.32,"body":"think there's there's loads of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":652.32,"endTime":656.43,"body":"room for us to investigate with"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":652.32,"endTime":656.43,"body":"the human species. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":657.03,"endTime":660.45,"body":"it's pretty well, that is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":657.03,"endTime":660.45,"body":"very interesting. Vanessa, were"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":660.45,"endTime":661.26,"body":"you gonna say something?"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":661.29,"endTime":662.7,"body":"I was just saying,"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":661.29,"endTime":662.7,"body":"that's pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":665.13,"endTime":668.22,"body":"Yeah, and also just a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":665.13,"endTime":668.22,"body":"complexity that you're bringing"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":668.22,"endTime":672.63,"body":"up of, of not just not just"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":668.22,"endTime":672.63,"body":"something genetic is something"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":672.63,"endTime":677.49,"body":"environmental, you know, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":672.63,"endTime":677.49,"body":"both, perhaps a combination."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":678.75,"endTime":683.76,"body":"That that is, is quite a trip."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":678.75,"endTime":683.76,"body":"And, and I'm wondering, too, is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":683.76,"endTime":686.79,"body":"that so you mentioned lions and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":683.76,"endTime":686.79,"body":"orangutangs Are there any other"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":686.94,"endTime":690.09,"body":"animals that you'd like to kind"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":686.94,"endTime":690.09,"body":"of point out, that have these"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":690.54,"endTime":691.17,"body":"ages and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":691.17,"endTime":694.65,"body":"ages are interesting as"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":691.17,"endTime":694.65,"body":"well. So I mean, hyenas are a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":694.65,"endTime":698.16,"body":"perfect example of how like, we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":694.65,"endTime":698.16,"body":"have this sense that a, a penis"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":698.16,"endTime":701.01,"body":"and a vagina are two totally"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":698.16,"endTime":701.01,"body":"different political structures,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":701.01,"endTime":704.1,"body":"and they're just like, nothing"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":701.01,"endTime":704.1,"body":"like the same. And so the baby"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":704.1,"endTime":707.1,"body":"in the womb goes down this like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":704.1,"endTime":707.1,"body":"path which either goes pink or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":707.1,"endTime":709.62,"body":"blue penis or vagina. And it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":707.1,"endTime":709.62,"body":"turns out, it's just not that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":709.62,"endTime":712.89,"body":"straightforward at all. And so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":709.62,"endTime":712.89,"body":"when you actually look there's a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":712.89,"endTime":715.35,"body":"great diagram, I've got actually"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":712.89,"endTime":715.35,"body":"have a clitoris and a penis,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":715.35,"endTime":717.84,"body":"they're the same thing. They're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":715.35,"endTime":717.84,"body":"identical, they literally their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":717.84,"endTime":721.02,"body":"physical structure, the way that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":717.84,"endTime":721.02,"body":"they, they literally, the whole"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":721.02,"endTime":724.74,"body":"thing like is that they're just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":721.02,"endTime":724.74,"body":"identical. And so in hyenas,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":725.43,"endTime":729.57,"body":"both male and female hyenas have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":725.43,"endTime":729.57,"body":"penises. In the female, they're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":729.57,"endTime":734.61,"body":"called the pseudo penis. But"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":729.57,"endTime":734.61,"body":"actually, they look identical."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":734.61,"endTime":738.12,"body":"And what happens is when a male"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":734.61,"endTime":738.12,"body":"when a female hyena makes with a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":738.12,"endTime":743.28,"body":"male hyena, she rolls up her"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":738.12,"endTime":743.28,"body":"butt her pseudo penis, so that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":743.28,"endTime":746.4,"body":"she can actually meet with the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":743.28,"endTime":746.4,"body":"male. When to female hyenas"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":746.4,"endTime":748.68,"body":"mate, which happens quite"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":746.4,"endTime":748.68,"body":"regularly, they kind of have to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":748.68,"endTime":751.77,"body":"have a choice who rolls up and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":748.68,"endTime":751.77,"body":"who doesn't. So it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":751.77,"endTime":755.04,"body":"like this really interesting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":751.77,"endTime":755.04,"body":"kind of fluidity and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":755.04,"endTime":759.72,"body":"physiological kind of like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":755.04,"endTime":759.72,"body":"adaptability that I think what"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":759.72,"endTime":761.46,"body":"you know, when we when we go"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":759.72,"endTime":761.46,"body":"back to what we've been taught"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":761.46,"endTime":764.43,"body":"in school in primary and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":761.46,"endTime":764.43,"body":"secondary school biology, we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":764.43,"endTime":766.92,"body":"were taught something that was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":764.43,"endTime":766.92,"body":"so simplistic that this kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":766.92,"endTime":770.01,"body":"blows our mind, but it's like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":766.92,"endTime":770.01,"body":"but it's it's so naturally"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":770.01,"endTime":773.97,"body":"evident. And yeah, intersects"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":770.01,"endTime":773.97,"body":"black bears is another species"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.9,"body":"where there's a lot of examples"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":773.97,"endTime":777.9,"body":"again, and if you search if you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":777.9,"endTime":780.3,"body":"search bears and intersects"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":777.9,"endTime":780.3,"body":"bears, I mean, it's the same"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":780.3,"endTime":783.18,"body":"with polar bears and grizzly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":780.3,"endTime":783.18,"body":"bears. But there's one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":783.18,"endTime":786.42,"body":"particular one that I referenced"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":783.18,"endTime":786.42,"body":"a lot and intersects black bear,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":786.93,"endTime":790.65,"body":"where she has a vagina, but had"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":786.93,"endTime":790.65,"body":"the anterior wall of her vagina"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":790.65,"endTime":793.11,"body":"is also developed into a penis."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":790.65,"endTime":793.11,"body":"So she has both she's kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":793.11,"endTime":798.03,"body":"hermaphroditic. But she's had"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":793.11,"endTime":798.03,"body":"babies. So she's got pregnant,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":798.03,"endTime":802.26,"body":"she's given birth, she her you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":798.03,"endTime":802.26,"body":"know how her mommy or lactating"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":802.26,"endTime":806.19,"body":"she is feeding her young. And so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":802.26,"endTime":806.19,"body":"she's intersex. So she has a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":806.19,"endTime":810.48,"body":"combination of vagina and penis."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":806.19,"endTime":810.48,"body":"And in bears, that's quite"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":810.48,"endTime":814.77,"body":"common. And in some bears, they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":810.48,"endTime":814.77,"body":"actually mate and give birth"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":815.07,"endTime":818.61,"body":"through the penis like structure"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":815.07,"endTime":818.61,"body":"that has developed from the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":818.61,"endTime":821.61,"body":"clitoris. So it's actually"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":818.61,"endTime":821.61,"body":"through that kind of like pseudo"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":821.61,"endTime":825.78,"body":"penis that they're mated with."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":821.61,"endTime":825.78,"body":"And then through that device"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":825.78,"endTime":829.2,"body":"that they actually give birth."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":825.78,"endTime":829.2,"body":"So it's, it's mind blowing when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":829.2,"endTime":831.51,"body":"we get into the natural world."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":829.2,"endTime":831.51,"body":"And we see all of this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":831.51,"endTime":836.25,"body":"variability and all of this kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":831.51,"endTime":836.25,"body":"of, yeah, fluidity and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":836.25,"endTime":842.01,"body":"changeability and non binary"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":836.25,"endTime":842.01,"body":"pneus. of biological sex. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":842.37,"endTime":846.21,"body":"It's almost like human"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":842.37,"endTime":846.21,"body":"social constructs have just made"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":846.21,"endTime":847.14,"body":"all of this up."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":849.09,"endTime":853.62,"body":"Isn't it? Yeah, yes. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":849.09,"endTime":853.62,"body":"Yeah, it is. And I think one of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":853.62,"endTime":857.13,"body":"the things that's often level"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":853.62,"endTime":857.13,"body":"that this whole thing is that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":857.13,"endTime":860.4,"body":"hermaphroditic ism, or intersex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":857.13,"endTime":860.4,"body":"or kind of anything that isn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":860.43,"endTime":864.21,"body":"strictly kind of like xx, xx,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":860.43,"endTime":864.21,"body":"yy, penis vagina kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":864.39,"endTime":870.12,"body":"scenario, is a small number. I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":864.39,"endTime":870.12,"body":"don't think it's as small as"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":870.12,"endTime":872.76,"body":"people think there are some"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":870.12,"endTime":872.76,"body":"really interesting studies that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":872.79,"endTime":875.37,"body":"I mean, essentially, to my mind,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":872.79,"endTime":875.37,"body":"based on the research I've done,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":875.37,"endTime":878.94,"body":"we're looking at a minimum of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":875.37,"endTime":878.94,"body":"one in 500 people, and it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":878.94,"endTime":882.21,"body":"actually probably closer to one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":878.94,"endTime":882.21,"body":"in 50 depending on what you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":882.21,"endTime":886.29,"body":"include under the intersex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":882.21,"endTime":886.29,"body":"umbrella. So one in 50 is the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":886.29,"endTime":889.8,"body":"same number of people who have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":886.29,"endTime":889.8,"body":"red hair in the world. It's a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":889.8,"endTime":894.21,"body":"lot of people it's a lot a lot"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":889.8,"endTime":894.21,"body":"of people and yeah, and then"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.33,"body":"when we look to the animal"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":894.21,"endTime":897.33,"body":"kingdom, I am not surprised if"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":897.33,"endTime":900.27,"body":"you search intersex bear or if"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":897.33,"endTime":900.27,"body":"you search lioness with me As"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":900.3,"endTime":903.45,"body":"you will find lots and lots of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":900.3,"endTime":903.45,"body":"examples, both in captivity and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":903.45,"endTime":908.55,"body":"in the wild. It seems quite a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":903.45,"endTime":908.55,"body":"normal phenomenon."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":908.999,"endTime":911.639,"body":"Yes. Well, it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":908.999,"endTime":911.639,"body":"I've got some googling to do,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":911.639,"endTime":915.659,"body":"because that's all that is all"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":911.639,"endTime":915.659,"body":"very interesting. And it also I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":915.659,"endTime":918.959,"body":"mean, regarding the, I mean, so"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":915.659,"endTime":918.959,"body":"you were, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":918.989,"endTime":921.569,"body":"mentioned a few examples there."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":918.989,"endTime":921.569,"body":"I mean, it's, I kind of, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":921.569,"endTime":924.329,"body":"thinking, I'm feel like, I could"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":921.569,"endTime":924.329,"body":"watch the Lion King and get a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":924.329,"endTime":929.429,"body":"totally different read of it"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":924.329,"endTime":929.429,"body":"now. But, um, but I think that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":929.789,"endTime":936.149,"body":"it's interesting, because the, I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":929.789,"endTime":936.149,"body":"feel like humans, often, if"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":936.149,"endTime":938.129,"body":"there's any discussion around"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":936.149,"endTime":938.129,"body":"intersex, which there's not a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":938.129,"endTime":941.579,"body":"lot, because we don't talk"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":938.129,"endTime":941.579,"body":"about. But if there is, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":941.579,"endTime":947.129,"body":"know, it's generally that that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":941.579,"endTime":947.129,"body":"is corrected. Right, it is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":947.159,"endTime":953.369,"body":"corrected through without any"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":947.159,"endTime":953.369,"body":"doubt nonconsensual surgery on a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":953.369,"endTime":958.199,"body":"very, very young person. And"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":953.369,"endTime":958.199,"body":"it's, you know, what I find"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":958.349,"endTime":962.069,"body":"unique about what you're"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":958.349,"endTime":962.069,"body":"mentioning about black bears, is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":962.069,"endTime":966.989,"body":"that is that they are that they"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":962.069,"endTime":966.989,"body":"reproduce that they, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":966.989,"endTime":971.909,"body":"have a full biological capacity."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":966.989,"endTime":971.909,"body":"And it really kind of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":971.909,"endTime":975.059,"body":"has me start to think about, oh,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":971.909,"endTime":975.059,"body":"what if we maybe, like, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":975.059,"endTime":981.059,"body":"know, didn't mess with people"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":975.059,"endTime":981.059,"body":"who are born that way. And, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":981.059,"endTime":985.019,"body":"know, maybe just let them be and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":981.059,"endTime":985.019,"body":"let them decide what they wanted"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":985.019,"endTime":988.019,"body":"to do at a later time, right."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":985.019,"endTime":988.019,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":988.92,"endTime":992.1,"body":"there are some amazing TEDx"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":988.92,"endTime":992.1,"body":"talks, actually, where there was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":992.1,"endTime":996.54,"body":"one by I can't remember the name"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":992.1,"endTime":996.54,"body":"of the person that does it. But"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":996.54,"endTime":999.81,"body":"yeah, her parents essentially,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":996.54,"endTime":999.81,"body":"like really pressured and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":999.81,"endTime":1002.18,"body":"pressured and pressured for her"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":999.81,"endTime":1002.18,"body":"to have an operation like, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1002.18,"endTime":1005.75,"body":"know, saying, Your daughter will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1002.18,"endTime":1005.75,"body":"not have a satisfying sex life,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1005.75,"endTime":1008.36,"body":"your daughter will not find a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1005.75,"endTime":1008.36,"body":"husband, your daughter will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.54,"body":"never be physically Okay, your"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1008.36,"endTime":1011.54,"body":"daughter will have psychological"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1011.54,"endTime":1015.08,"body":"issues. And they had to resist,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1011.54,"endTime":1015.08,"body":"resist, resist, resist and not"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1015.08,"endTime":1018.11,"body":"have, you know, their daughter"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1015.08,"endTime":1018.11,"body":"operated on from the point that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1018.11,"endTime":1021.14,"body":"their daughter hit, I can't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1018.11,"endTime":1021.14,"body":"remember what 1617 or 18, but"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1021.14,"endTime":1024.05,"body":"they stopped contacting the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1021.14,"endTime":1024.05,"body":"parents and started contacting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1024.05,"endTime":1026.45,"body":"her saying you have to have an"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1024.05,"endTime":1026.45,"body":"operation, there was something"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1026.45,"endTime":1029.63,"body":"physically wrong with you, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1026.45,"endTime":1029.63,"body":"need this operation, and she"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1029.66,"endTime":1032.78,"body":"continued to resist, the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1029.66,"endTime":1032.78,"body":"operation is now happily"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1032.78,"endTime":1036.47,"body":"married, is living really,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1032.78,"endTime":1036.47,"body":"really happy. There have been no"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1036.47,"endTime":1039.62,"body":"problems. But the pressure that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1036.47,"endTime":1039.62,"body":"is put on the parents of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1039.62,"endTime":1043.28,"body":"intersex children to have them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1039.62,"endTime":1043.28,"body":"operated on is really quite"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1043.52,"endTime":1047.57,"body":"shocking. And it's interesting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1043.52,"endTime":1047.57,"body":"when I mean, there was one major"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1049.76,"body":"study done that essentially kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1049.76,"body":"of looked at all the global"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1049.76,"endTime":1053.06,"body":"evidence from about 45 years to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1049.76,"endTime":1053.06,"body":"to come up with this number of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1053.06,"endTime":1056.36,"body":"one in 50. People being intersex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1053.06,"endTime":1056.36,"body":"and somehow not fitting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1056.36,"endTime":1060.35,"body":"scientific criteria. And it was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1056.36,"endTime":1060.35,"body":"I think it was criticized by one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1060.35,"endTime":1062.72,"body":"person in particular, that kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1060.35,"endTime":1062.72,"body":"of like, tore it down. So these"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1062.72,"endTime":1066.26,"body":"numbers are ridiculous. And it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1062.72,"endTime":1066.26,"body":"like, the minimum number that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1066.26,"endTime":1068.6,"body":"I've managed to come up with"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1066.26,"endTime":1068.6,"body":"mean even like, I think the UK"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1068.6,"endTime":1072.53,"body":"stats are one in 300 People are"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1068.6,"endTime":1072.53,"body":"operated on close to birth to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1072.53,"endTime":1075.92,"body":"make their genitals fit male or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1072.53,"endTime":1075.92,"body":"female, because their genitals"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1075.92,"endTime":1078.53,"body":"are either a combination, so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1075.92,"endTime":1078.53,"body":"they're either a combination of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1078.53,"endTime":1081.8,"body":"penis and vagina, or it might be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1078.53,"endTime":1081.8,"body":"that the gonads and the genitals"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1081.8,"endTime":1084.92,"body":"don't match. So it might be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1081.8,"endTime":1084.92,"body":"testes, and a vagina or ovaries"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1084.92,"endTime":1087.98,"body":"and a penis, or the genitals"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1084.92,"endTime":1087.98,"body":"themselves are kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1087.98,"endTime":1091.16,"body":"indistinguishable, there's not"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1087.98,"endTime":1091.16,"body":"really anything in terms of one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1091.16,"endTime":1094.25,"body":"or the other. And so these"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1091.16,"endTime":1094.25,"body":"operations one in 300 people in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1094.25,"endTime":1097.97,"body":"the UK, the last stat I saw, but"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1094.25,"endTime":1097.97,"body":"certainly between one and 501,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1097.97,"endTime":1101.57,"body":"in the 1000s people wherever you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1097.97,"endTime":1101.57,"body":"are in the world are being"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"operated on at birth to make"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1101.57,"endTime":1106.19,"body":"them male or female. And to fit"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1106.19,"endTime":1111.41,"body":"this binary biological sex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1106.19,"endTime":1111.41,"body":"construct. It's horrible. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1112.07,"endTime":1117.68,"body":"Yeah. And therein lies the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1112.07,"endTime":1117.68,"body":"construct. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1118.01,"endTime":1123.56,"body":"yeah, totally. It's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1118.01,"endTime":1123.56,"body":"it's quite, it's really hard to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1123.56,"endTime":1127.82,"body":"understand how given how"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1123.56,"endTime":1127.82,"body":"constructional it all is, kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1127.82,"endTime":1133.16,"body":"of like how we hang so much off"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1127.82,"endTime":1133.16,"body":"it in society that we do. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1133.19,"endTime":1135.23,"body":"it's, it's quite unbelievable."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1137.09,"endTime":1140.78,"body":"Well, let's pivot a little"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1137.09,"endTime":1140.78,"body":"bit to talk about the brain."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1141.59,"endTime":1146.33,"body":"Because that's another I saw a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1141.59,"endTime":1146.33,"body":"post that you had made a while"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1146.33,"endTime":1149.3,"body":"ago. And and it was talking"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1146.33,"endTime":1149.3,"body":"about brain science. So I know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1149.3,"endTime":1153.11,"body":"you know a little about this."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1149.3,"endTime":1153.11,"body":"You had posted about some"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1153.11,"endTime":1158.03,"body":"studies showing how or maybe a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1153.11,"endTime":1158.03,"body":"study specifically, not 100%"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1158.03,"endTime":1162.53,"body":"Sure, showing how pathways in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1158.03,"endTime":1162.53,"body":"the brain differ for transgender"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1162.53,"endTime":1169.16,"body":"individuals. And I'm curious to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1162.53,"endTime":1169.16,"body":"know, like how that corresponds"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1169.16,"endTime":1172.46,"body":"to the idea of nature versus"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1169.16,"endTime":1172.46,"body":"nurture, which we talked a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1172.46,"endTime":1177.11,"body":"little bit with the lions. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1172.46,"endTime":1177.11,"body":"I like the idea that are people"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1177.11,"endTime":1182.54,"body":"born this way with differently"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1177.11,"endTime":1182.54,"body":"wired brains, or is this is this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1182.54,"endTime":1185.96,"body":"something that develops"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1182.54,"endTime":1185.96,"body":"throughout their lifetime? Or do"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1185.96,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"we have enough information to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1185.96,"endTime":1188.6,"body":"know that conclusively at this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1188.6,"endTime":1189.02,"body":"point?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1190.34,"endTime":1194.03,"body":"Yeah, okay. So there was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1190.34,"endTime":1194.03,"body":"really there was there was one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1194.03,"endTime":1196.64,"body":"study that I've referenced that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1194.03,"endTime":1196.64,"body":"was done in 2019, which was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1196.64,"endTime":1201.47,"body":"groundbreaking, and what it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1196.64,"endTime":1201.47,"body":"showed us Um, so first off,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1201.47,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"something that's quite"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1201.47,"endTime":1203.33,"body":"interesting to understand is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1206.48,"body":"that estrogen is actually"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1203.33,"endTime":1206.48,"body":"responsible for the way that the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1206.48,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"brain develops. So and the way"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1206.48,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"that the brain patterning"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1213.59,"body":"happens in terms of its"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1213.59,"body":"likelihood to be kind of on the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1213.59,"endTime":1216.95,"body":"masculine end of the scale or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1213.59,"endTime":1216.95,"body":"the feminine end of the scale."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1219.92,"body":"So it can be interesting when we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1216.95,"endTime":1219.92,"body":"talk about brain science,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1219.92,"endTime":1223.64,"body":"because it's kind of there's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1219.92,"endTime":1223.64,"body":"been a lot of studies to show"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1223.64,"endTime":1225.95,"body":"that essentially, there isn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1223.64,"endTime":1225.95,"body":"such a thing as a male brain or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1225.95,"endTime":1228.32,"body":"a female brain, it's just not"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1225.95,"endTime":1228.32,"body":"that straightforward. Like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1228.32,"endTime":1232.37,"body":"everything is on a spectrum. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1228.32,"endTime":1232.37,"body":"so I like to think of when I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1232.37,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"talking about masculine or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1232.37,"endTime":1235.58,"body":"feminine, I try to use the terms"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1235.61,"endTime":1239.12,"body":"yin and yang, if they're terms"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1235.61,"endTime":1239.12,"body":"you're familiar with. So it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1239.12,"endTime":1242.3,"body":"kind of like Yin being kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1239.12,"endTime":1242.3,"body":"like almost soft, feminine,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1242.3,"endTime":1245.15,"body":"gentle kind of those kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1242.3,"endTime":1245.15,"body":"energies, with Yang being the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1245.15,"endTime":1250.19,"body":"stronger fiercer, more assertive"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1245.15,"endTime":1250.19,"body":"kind of energies. And so if we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1250.19,"endTime":1253.88,"body":"look at all of the people"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1250.19,"endTime":1253.88,"body":"assigned female at birth, and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1253.88,"endTime":1256.34,"body":"put them over there, and all of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1253.88,"endTime":1256.34,"body":"the people assigned male over"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1256.34,"endTime":1260.69,"body":"birth, and we assigned male at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1256.34,"endTime":1260.69,"body":"birth, and we put their kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1260.69,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"like brain pattern things into"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1260.69,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"kind of like a thing, and we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"look at the will be a small"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.06,"body":"difference, you know, so I mean,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1266.39,"endTime":1269.42,"body":"not as much as might have been"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1266.39,"endTime":1269.42,"body":"implied, we're not different"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1269.42,"endTime":1272.33,"body":"species were the same species."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1269.42,"endTime":1272.33,"body":"And it's all on a spectrum. But"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1272.33,"endTime":1276.32,"body":"there is a difference. When we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1272.33,"endTime":1276.32,"body":"look at transgender individuals,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1276.32,"endTime":1279.11,"body":"and this, what this study did is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1276.32,"endTime":1279.11,"body":"it looked at these estrogen"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1279.11,"endTime":1283.67,"body":"signaling pathways in the brain"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1279.11,"endTime":1283.67,"body":"that create either a male Yang"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1283.67,"endTime":1287.75,"body":"patterning or a female Yin"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1283.67,"endTime":1287.75,"body":"patterning. And what they found"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1287.75,"endTime":1290.93,"body":"was that in transgender"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1287.75,"endTime":1290.93,"body":"individuals, there were lots of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1294.98,"body":"different ways that these"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1290.93,"endTime":1294.98,"body":"pathways varied that that wasn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1294.98,"endTime":1297.5,"body":"evidence in cisgender people. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1294.98,"endTime":1297.5,"body":"in the control group of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1297.5,"endTime":1300.71,"body":"cisgender, people, these"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1297.5,"endTime":1300.71,"body":"variations were not evident at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1300.71,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"all, just not not to be seen."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1300.71,"endTime":1303.8,"body":"And also in very large"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1307.34,"body":"controlled DNA databases, they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1303.8,"endTime":1307.34,"body":"weren't to be seen apart from a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1307.34,"endTime":1310.7,"body":"very small group. So there are a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1307.34,"endTime":1310.7,"body":"small group of people who are"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1310.7,"endTime":1313.43,"body":"saying, you know, from three,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1310.7,"endTime":1313.43,"body":"four or five years old, I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1313.43,"endTime":1316.85,"body":"somehow not in the right body, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1313.43,"endTime":1316.85,"body":"am in the wrong body, that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1316.85,"endTime":1319.49,"body":"actually, it turns out their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1316.85,"endTime":1319.49,"body":"brain patterning is kind of at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1319.49,"endTime":1323.06,"body":"the extreme opposite end to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1319.49,"endTime":1323.06,"body":"where their body is. So if they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1323.06,"endTime":1325.76,"body":"were assigned male at birth,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1323.06,"endTime":1325.76,"body":"their brain patterning is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1325.76,"endTime":1329.0,"body":"actually right down the Yin end"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1325.76,"endTime":1329.0,"body":"of the brain patterning"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1329.0,"endTime":1332.06,"body":"spectrum, or if they're assigned"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1329.0,"endTime":1332.06,"body":"female at birth, their brain"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1332.06,"endTime":1335.6,"body":"patterning is right down the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1332.06,"endTime":1335.6,"body":"ying end of the brain patterning"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1335.63,"endTime":1340.07,"body":"spectrum. And this is all to do"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1335.63,"endTime":1340.07,"body":"with what happens with estrogen"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1340.1,"endTime":1344.45,"body":"in the development of the baby."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1340.1,"endTime":1344.45,"body":"And I think the easiest way to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1344.45,"endTime":1347.63,"body":"explain it is that genitalia and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1344.45,"endTime":1347.63,"body":"the brain develop at different"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1347.63,"endTime":1351.05,"body":"points in in that kind of like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1347.63,"endTime":1351.05,"body":"cycle. So the body will be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1351.05,"endTime":1353.48,"body":"developing, the genitalia will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1351.05,"endTime":1353.48,"body":"develop, I'm not sure which way"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1353.48,"endTime":1355.76,"body":"round it is, but the one will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1353.48,"endTime":1355.76,"body":"develop and then something will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1355.76,"endTime":1360.26,"body":"shift in the estrogen signaling"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1355.76,"endTime":1360.26,"body":"pathways, and the brain or the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1360.26,"endTime":1363.59,"body":"genitals will will then develop"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1360.26,"endTime":1363.59,"body":"in the opposite way. And so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1363.59,"endTime":1367.97,"body":"literally, we are talking about"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1363.59,"endTime":1367.97,"body":"a physiological brain difference"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1368.21,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"for people who are experiencing"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1368.21,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"themselves as not in alignment"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1372.17,"endTime":1374.69,"body":"with the sex they've been"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1372.17,"endTime":1374.69,"body":"assigned at birth, which makes"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1375.08,"endTime":1379.01,"body":"total sense. And when people"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1375.08,"endTime":1379.01,"body":"talk about biological sex being"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1379.01,"endTime":1382.49,"body":"binary, you know, not only do we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1379.01,"endTime":1382.49,"body":"have intersex people, but we now"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1382.49,"endTime":1385.91,"body":"have this evidence that would"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1382.49,"endTime":1385.91,"body":"suggest that trans binary people"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1386.15,"endTime":1389.3,"body":"who want to swap from one to the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1386.15,"endTime":1389.3,"body":"other also have a physiological"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1389.3,"endTime":1393.35,"body":"underpinning for that. Which"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1389.3,"endTime":1393.35,"body":"means that, you know, kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1393.35,"endTime":1396.08,"body":"we're definitely not talking"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1393.35,"endTime":1396.08,"body":"about a society where we're just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1396.08,"endTime":1399.83,"body":"men and women. There's evidence"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1396.08,"endTime":1399.83,"body":"that shows that we're so much"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1399.83,"endTime":1402.17,"body":"more than that. And it's much"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1399.83,"endTime":1402.17,"body":"more complicated."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1403.34,"endTime":1409.4,"body":"Wow, yes. So much more"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1403.34,"endTime":1409.4,"body":"complex. Yeah, absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1409.4,"endTime":1412.49,"body":"think, Vanessa, you've even"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1409.4,"endTime":1412.49,"body":"touched on, you know, as you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1412.52,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"have started to take the hormone"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1412.52,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"therapy that that you've noticed"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1424.19,"body":"some differences. And I've heard"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1424.19,"body":"this from other trans folks, as"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1424.19,"endTime":1426.29,"body":"well. And I've experienced this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1424.19,"endTime":1426.29,"body":"myself, do you have any thoughts"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1426.29,"endTime":1426.71,"body":"on that?"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1427.61,"endTime":1430.61,"body":"I mean, that just makes"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1427.61,"endTime":1430.61,"body":"so much sense. I've heard that"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1430.61,"endTime":1435.35,"body":"before too. But like, because"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1430.61,"endTime":1435.35,"body":"you see trans people on all"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1438.62,"body":"different walks of life, and"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1435.35,"endTime":1438.62,"body":"you're not just seeing, you"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1438.62,"endTime":1445.01,"body":"know, trans people being super"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1438.62,"endTime":1445.01,"body":"left wing. And, I mean, I've had"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1447.5,"body":"the thoughts that I was in the"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1445.01,"endTime":1447.5,"body":"wrong body since I was since I"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1447.5,"endTime":1455.03,"body":"was a little kid. And since I've"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1447.5,"endTime":1455.03,"body":"started estrogen, I like to say"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1455.03,"endTime":1462.71,"body":"that my brain had been craving"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1455.03,"endTime":1462.71,"body":"estrogen for 40 years, but my"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1462.71,"endTime":1467.15,"body":"body was producing testosterone."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1462.71,"endTime":1467.15,"body":"So now that I fixed that"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1467.15,"endTime":1469.7,"body":"problem, everything is"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1467.15,"endTime":1469.7,"body":"everything's become much more"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1469.7,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"clear. Everything's been"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1469.7,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"aligned. And yeah, it it just"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1485.0,"body":"makes so much more sense that I,"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1485.0,"body":"the estrogen is what I've needed"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1485.0,"endTime":1488.36,"body":"my entire life. And now that I"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1485.0,"endTime":1488.36,"body":"have it, it's things everything"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1488.36,"endTime":1489.08,"body":"clicks."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1491.45,"body":"That makes sense as well."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1489.26,"endTime":1491.45,"body":"When we look at something like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1491.45,"endTime":1495.98,"body":"stress hormones, we understand"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1491.45,"endTime":1495.98,"body":"that adrenaline your adrenaline,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1495.98,"endTime":1500.6,"body":"cortisol, serotonin, dopamine,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1495.98,"endTime":1500.6,"body":"we know that they change that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1500.6,"endTime":1503.96,"body":"affects how we feel, it makes"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1500.6,"endTime":1503.96,"body":"total sense that like kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1503.96,"endTime":1506.27,"body":"the hormones that might have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1503.96,"endTime":1506.27,"body":"been around when our brain was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1506.27,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"developing, you know, all of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1506.27,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"that, that there is some kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1509.66,"endTime":1513.59,"body":"like actual real tie in there to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1509.66,"endTime":1513.59,"body":"like kind of what we need, what"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1513.59,"endTime":1517.16,"body":"our body needs, how our body"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1513.59,"endTime":1517.16,"body":"feels. That is way more"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1517.16,"endTime":1520.37,"body":"complicated. And I don't even"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1517.16,"endTime":1520.37,"body":"think we really understand sex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1520.37,"endTime":1523.4,"body":"hormones as well as we need to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1520.37,"endTime":1523.4,"body":"like how kind of it's not a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1523.4,"endTime":1526.19,"body":"female hormone and a male"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1523.4,"endTime":1526.19,"body":"hormone. Like, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1526.19,"endTime":1528.53,"body":"stuff being done at the moment"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1526.19,"endTime":1528.53,"body":"with kind of menopause showing"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1528.53,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"that women need testosterone in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1528.53,"endTime":1532.31,"body":"menopause. It's kind of like an"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1534.71,"body":"how, you know, we would just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1532.31,"endTime":1534.71,"body":"estrogen being required for the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1534.71,"endTime":1538.13,"body":"masculinization of the brain."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1534.71,"endTime":1538.13,"body":"And there's also I kind of wrote"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1538.13,"endTime":1541.61,"body":"it down actually kind of what"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1538.13,"endTime":1541.61,"body":"was the name of the and roast"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1541.61,"endTime":1545.93,"body":"and edia which is the precursor"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1541.61,"endTime":1545.93,"body":"to estrogen and testosterone? I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1545.93,"endTime":1548.24,"body":"mean, what's that? You know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1545.93,"endTime":1548.24,"body":"what's that? What, what are our"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1548.24,"endTime":1551.18,"body":"different levels and so on one"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1548.24,"endTime":1551.18,"body":"of the sets of lions actually,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1553.85,"body":"when they were looking at, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1551.18,"endTime":1553.85,"body":"know, does this line so that's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1553.85,"endTime":1557.15,"body":"that's gonna mean have high"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1553.85,"endTime":1557.15,"body":"levels of testosterone. And she"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1557.15,"endTime":1560.45,"body":"didn't, but what she did have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1557.15,"endTime":1560.45,"body":"was high levels of cortisol and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1560.48,"endTime":1565.37,"body":"the Andros that Debian. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1560.48,"endTime":1565.37,"body":"there's all these different"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1565.37,"endTime":1567.83,"body":"hormones. So again, I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1565.37,"endTime":1567.83,"body":"understanding the hormone"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1567.83,"endTime":1571.88,"body":"profiles, and understanding the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1567.83,"endTime":1571.88,"body":"way that the brain works, is a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1571.88,"endTime":1577.34,"body":"huge part of gender, and sex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1571.88,"endTime":1577.34,"body":"science that we're only really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1577.34,"endTime":1579.89,"body":"starting to look at now. And I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1577.34,"endTime":1579.89,"body":"think that's where the natural"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.1,"body":"world helps us to go. Yeah, this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1579.89,"endTime":1583.1,"body":"is not just a human thing. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1583.25,"endTime":1586.61,"body":"there is definitely something"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1583.25,"endTime":1586.61,"body":"physiological going on here."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1587.6,"endTime":1591.14,"body":"Right. Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1587.6,"endTime":1591.14,"body":"think it also lends to that, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1591.14,"endTime":1595.88,"body":"know, that idea of sometimes"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1591.14,"endTime":1595.88,"body":"trans people are criticized of,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1595.88,"endTime":1597.92,"body":"you know, oh, this is all in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1595.88,"endTime":1597.92,"body":"your head. Well, it's like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1597.92,"endTime":1603.38,"body":"well, yes. Actually, it is. Yes,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1597.92,"endTime":1603.38,"body":"it is. It is, it is in my head."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1603.38,"endTime":1607.67,"body":"Yes. It is. Part of my brain."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1603.38,"endTime":1607.67,"body":"Yes. That is actually accurate."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1607.7,"endTime":1611.24,"body":"Let me like turn that right back"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1607.7,"endTime":1611.24,"body":"around, you know, exactly."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1611.24,"endTime":1613.4,"body":"And I think if somebody"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1611.24,"endTime":1613.4,"body":"said, like, I'm stressed, we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1613.4,"endTime":1615.53,"body":"wouldn't say, Well, hold on a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1613.4,"endTime":1615.53,"body":"minute, you're not sweating,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1615.53,"endTime":1618.23,"body":"your pupils are dilated, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1615.53,"endTime":1618.23,"body":"know, we'd go like, okay, you've"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1618.23,"endTime":1620.81,"body":"told me you're stressed, I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1618.23,"endTime":1620.81,"body":"going to believe you. So it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1620.81,"endTime":1623.42,"body":"kind of the same with with a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1620.81,"endTime":1623.42,"body":"trans person saying, like, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1623.42,"endTime":1626.24,"body":"don't feel the way I might look"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1623.42,"endTime":1626.24,"body":"on the outside, and then people"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1626.24,"endTime":1628.28,"body":"saying, well, we don't believe"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1626.24,"endTime":1628.28,"body":"you, because you look like that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1628.28,"endTime":1631.07,"body":"on the outside. So you must feel"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1628.28,"endTime":1631.07,"body":"like this on the inside. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1631.07,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"it's like, wow, when are we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1631.07,"endTime":1635.18,"body":"going to divorce this idea that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1638.15,"body":"we should be able to tell how"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1635.18,"endTime":1638.15,"body":"somebody feels by looking at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1638.15,"endTime":1641.42,"body":"them? You know, be that how"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1638.15,"endTime":1641.42,"body":"stressed they are? Or be that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1641.42,"endTime":1645.11,"body":"you know, kind of how, okay,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1641.42,"endTime":1645.11,"body":"they are with their own agenda."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1645.11,"endTime":1647.78,"body":"You know, it's kind of crazy"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1645.11,"endTime":1647.78,"body":"that looking at somebody, we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1647.78,"endTime":1652.28,"body":"should be able to read their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1647.78,"endTime":1652.28,"body":"internal world. And why wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1654.98,"body":"we just trust how people tell us"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1652.28,"endTime":1654.98,"body":"they feel like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1655.82,"endTime":1660.29,"body":"yes, that's a that's a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1655.82,"endTime":1660.29,"body":"pretty vital question. Why Why"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1660.29,"endTime":1662.03,"body":"would we not believe people?"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1660.29,"endTime":1662.03,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1664.1,"endTime":1665.93,"body":"Because we live in a"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":1664.1,"endTime":1665.93,"body":"society?"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1666.709,"endTime":1673.369,"body":"Yes. Yes. Well, it's not"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1666.709,"endTime":1673.369,"body":"not a lot it is. Um, well, so"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1673.369,"endTime":1677.479,"body":"that actually, kind of speaking"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1673.369,"endTime":1677.479,"body":"of society that I'm curious"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1677.479,"endTime":1680.689,"body":"about, you've, you know, you've"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1677.479,"endTime":1680.689,"body":"mentioned some things about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1680.689,"endTime":1684.889,"body":"different cultures. And, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1680.689,"endTime":1684.889,"body":"know, I've heard quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1684.889,"endTime":1692.629,"body":"about, there's definitely been"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1684.889,"endTime":1692.629,"body":"different talks about to spirit"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1692.629,"endTime":1697.009,"body":"culture in the Native American"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1692.629,"endTime":1697.009,"body":"community here. And I have heard"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1697.009,"endTime":1702.199,"body":"of some other examples that are,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1697.009,"endTime":1702.199,"body":"some of which are, I think, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1702.199,"endTime":1708.199,"body":"know, earlier in history, but I,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1702.199,"endTime":1708.199,"body":"you've also mentioned that there"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1708.199,"endTime":1712.939,"body":"are current cultures like right"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1708.199,"endTime":1712.939,"body":"now in the world, that are more"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1712.939,"endTime":1720.649,"body":"accepting of more complex ideas"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1712.939,"endTime":1720.649,"body":"of gender and sex. And I think"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1720.649,"endTime":1724.099,"body":"in the, you know, here in the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1720.649,"endTime":1724.099,"body":"West, here, in America, and in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1724.099,"endTime":1726.709,"body":"Europe a lot, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1724.099,"endTime":1726.709,"body":"there's, you know, it's just"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1726.709,"endTime":1730.339,"body":"such a, such a conversation"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1726.709,"endTime":1730.339,"body":"about, you know, men and women"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1730.339,"endTime":1733.249,"body":"and focus on that, and, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1730.339,"endTime":1733.249,"body":"know, trans is not real, and all"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1733.249,"endTime":1737.749,"body":"of this crap. And, and like, I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1733.249,"endTime":1737.749,"body":"feel like we don't talk about as"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1737.749,"endTime":1742.609,"body":"much here, the current cultures"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1737.749,"endTime":1742.609,"body":"that exist right now, in the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1742.609,"endTime":1746.959,"body":"world who really do acknowledge"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1742.609,"endTime":1746.959,"body":"a more complex gender and sex"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1746.959,"endTime":1749.749,"body":"structure. So do you have any"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1746.959,"endTime":1749.749,"body":"examples of that, that you could"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1749.749,"endTime":1750.289,"body":"share?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1751.43,"endTime":1754.97,"body":"And the poll is quite a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1751.43,"endTime":1754.97,"body":"good one. So back in 2007, they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1754.97,"endTime":1758.6,"body":"became the first country to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1754.97,"endTime":1758.6,"body":"legally recognize a third"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1758.6,"endTime":1761.87,"body":"gender. And so I mean, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1758.6,"endTime":1761.87,"body":"there are there, there's 20 of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1761.87,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"different cultures right now in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1761.87,"endTime":1764.69,"body":"the world that recognize more"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1768.35,"body":"than two genders, like is just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1764.69,"endTime":1768.35,"body":"standard de facto just totally"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1768.35,"endTime":1771.5,"body":"not abnormal. But yeah, that was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1768.35,"endTime":1771.5,"body":"interesting for me that that was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1771.5,"endTime":1775.25,"body":"in 2007, that the pool chose to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1771.5,"endTime":1775.25,"body":"legally recognize the Metis and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1775.25,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"the Metis. In the pool, are"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1775.25,"endTime":1778.49,"body":"people who are assigned male at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1783.26,"body":"birth, but who assume the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1778.49,"endTime":1783.26,"body":"carriage and mannerisms and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1783.26,"endTime":1787.46,"body":"appearance and dress of women,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1783.26,"endTime":1787.46,"body":"but they don't consider"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1787.46,"endTime":1791.0,"body":"themselves gay. They consider"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1787.46,"endTime":1791.0,"body":"themselves a third gender who"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1791.0,"endTime":1794.18,"body":"are attracted to straight men,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1791.0,"endTime":1794.18,"body":"and that's how they're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1794.18,"endTime":1796.58,"body":"recognized and the whole of the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1794.18,"endTime":1796.58,"body":"society. That's how they're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1796.58,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"seen. It's totally normal. It's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1796.58,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"like, Ah, you're Metis you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1803.72,"body":"Okay, and everybody understands"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1803.72,"body":"this. So, yeah, so that's that's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1803.72,"endTime":1807.2,"body":"one that I really like. Because"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1803.72,"endTime":1807.2,"body":"I think it's, it's great that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1807.2,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"that's actually now legally"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1807.2,"endTime":1809.48,"body":"recognized. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"that's, you know, that's where"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1809.48,"endTime":1812.42,"body":"this can kind of get complicated"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1815.15,"body":"because even though people know"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1812.42,"endTime":1815.15,"body":"how they feel, and we can change"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1815.15,"endTime":1818.24,"body":"documents and things like that,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1815.15,"endTime":1818.24,"body":"I think it's without the legal"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1818.24,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"recognition, it makes life"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1818.24,"endTime":1822.77,"body":"incredibly difficult. Yes. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"that's a great one. And then the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1822.77,"endTime":1825.17,"body":"other one that I absolutely"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1825.17,"endTime":1827.96,"body":"love. I mean, based on all the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1825.17,"endTime":1827.96,"body":"research I've done, I mean, this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1827.96,"endTime":1830.72,"body":"tribe seems to have it totally"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1827.96,"endTime":1830.72,"body":"right to me, and it's the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1830.72,"endTime":1835.19,"body":"biggest people, and they're in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1830.72,"endTime":1835.19,"body":"Sulawesi in Indonesia. And they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1835.19,"endTime":1840.23,"body":"recognize three sexes, so male,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1835.19,"endTime":1840.23,"body":"female, and intersex which, as"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1840.23,"endTime":1842.87,"body":"far as I can tell, that is what"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1840.23,"endTime":1842.87,"body":"we are biologically male,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1842.87,"endTime":1846.68,"body":"female, or intersex. And then"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1842.87,"endTime":1846.68,"body":"they recognize five genders, so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1846.68,"endTime":1850.46,"body":"they recognize male men, they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1846.68,"endTime":1850.46,"body":"recognize male women, they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1850.46,"endTime":1855.17,"body":"recognize female women, and they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1850.46,"endTime":1855.17,"body":"recognize female men, and then"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1855.17,"endTime":1859.37,"body":"recognize non binary people. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1855.17,"endTime":1859.37,"body":"they recognize those five"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1859.37,"endTime":1861.74,"body":"different genders. And so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1859.37,"endTime":1861.74,"body":"someone who's born male, could"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1861.74,"endTime":1865.07,"body":"arguably, you know, be any of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1861.74,"endTime":1865.07,"body":"the three. So either male man,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1865.07,"endTime":1867.65,"body":"they could be male woman, or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1865.07,"endTime":1867.65,"body":"they could be non binary. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1867.65,"endTime":1870.77,"body":"then anybody born an assigned"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1867.65,"endTime":1870.77,"body":"female could be any one of the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1870.77,"endTime":1874.46,"body":"corresponding three or somebody"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1870.77,"endTime":1874.46,"body":"born intersex could go in any"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1874.46,"endTime":1877.85,"body":"one of the directions that felt"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1874.46,"endTime":1877.85,"body":"right for them. And it's all"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1877.85,"endTime":1882.23,"body":"just totally understood. So,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1877.85,"endTime":1882.23,"body":"yeah. Bisou is the name given to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1882.23,"endTime":1886.19,"body":"non binary people in that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1882.23,"endTime":1886.19,"body":"locale. But I think you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1886.19,"endTime":1889.19,"body":"you referenced ancient cultures"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1886.19,"endTime":1889.19,"body":"as well. But if we go back to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1889.19,"endTime":1892.1,"body":"like the Talmud, in the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1889.19,"endTime":1892.1,"body":"Kabbalah, some of the ancient"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1892.37,"endTime":1896.15,"body":"Jewish texts that precede the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1892.37,"endTime":1896.15,"body":"Bible, they talk about intersex"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1896.15,"endTime":1900.65,"body":"and transgender people like it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1896.15,"endTime":1900.65,"body":"totally normal. So yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1900.65,"endTime":1903.59,"body":"interesting. It's like these"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1900.65,"endTime":1903.59,"body":"current cultures that recognize"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1903.59,"endTime":1906.2,"body":"more than two genders. They're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1903.59,"endTime":1906.2,"body":"actually just holding on to the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1906.2,"endTime":1910.13,"body":"way we were, and they haven't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1906.2,"endTime":1910.13,"body":"had the binary gender construct"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1910.13,"endTime":1913.43,"body":"come in and overly overlaid to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1910.13,"endTime":1913.43,"body":"the degree that they've"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1913.43,"endTime":1915.56,"body":"forgotten where they came from."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1915.95,"endTime":1920.99,"body":"Right. Wow, that is, that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1915.95,"endTime":1920.99,"body":"is really fascinating. I, I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1920.99,"endTime":1924.53,"body":"never, I never got that."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1920.99,"endTime":1924.53,"body":"Definitely never got that from"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1924.56,"endTime":1931.4,"body":"my biblical readings as a young"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1924.56,"endTime":1931.4,"body":"child. So maybe another thing to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1931.4,"endTime":1933.98,"body":"Google? You know? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1934.22,"endTime":1936.62,"body":"definitely the TAT the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1934.22,"endTime":1936.62,"body":"Talmud or the Kabbalah on"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1936.62,"endTime":1939.71,"body":"intersex and transgender is very"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1936.62,"endTime":1939.71,"body":"interesting, and actually the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1939.71,"endTime":1943.37,"body":"Jewish community. And I've seen"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1939.71,"endTime":1943.37,"body":"that there are some places where"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1943.37,"endTime":1946.34,"body":"the rabbi are incredibly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1943.37,"endTime":1946.34,"body":"supportive, or the youth who are"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1946.34,"endTime":1950.93,"body":"going through transition, and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1946.34,"endTime":1950.93,"body":"incredibly supportive of them in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1950.93,"endTime":1952.64,"body":"that journey. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1953.54,"endTime":1956.24,"body":"yes, I've experienced that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1953.54,"endTime":1956.24,"body":"as well with, with the Jewish"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1956.24,"endTime":1958.58,"body":"community, especially with the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1956.24,"endTime":1958.58,"body":"more Yes, obviously, the more"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1958.58,"endTime":1963.02,"body":"progressive parts of the Jewish"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1958.58,"endTime":1963.02,"body":"community are very, they would"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1963.02,"endTime":1967.43,"body":"actually say that trick to be"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1963.02,"endTime":1967.43,"body":"trans is, is to be more holy, or"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1967.43,"endTime":1972.53,"body":"you know, it is something to be"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1967.43,"endTime":1972.53,"body":"revered and looked up to. So"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1972.56,"endTime":1976.76,"body":"that is that, but I have not"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1972.56,"endTime":1976.76,"body":"actually done the research on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1976.79,"endTime":1980.81,"body":"the Talmud and things like that."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1976.79,"endTime":1980.81,"body":"So that'll be something else to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":1980.81,"endTime":1981.5,"body":"look into."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1982.55,"endTime":1985.55,"body":"That is the history the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1982.55,"endTime":1985.55,"body":"history of intersex and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1985.55,"endTime":1988.19,"body":"transgender and non binary is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1985.55,"endTime":1988.19,"body":"that they were the spiritual"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1988.19,"endTime":1990.65,"body":"leaders, they were the ones who"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1988.19,"endTime":1990.65,"body":"were believed to be closer to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1990.65,"endTime":1994.73,"body":"God, because they had both an"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1990.65,"endTime":1994.73,"body":"even balance of yin and yang"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1994.76,"endTime":1997.76,"body":"within them. So they were they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1994.76,"endTime":1997.76,"body":"were both all and everything. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1998.0,"endTime":2000.4,"body":"and I think if we track back to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":1998.0,"endTime":2000.4,"body":"ancient religions, where they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2000.4,"endTime":2003.01,"body":"would have like, maybe a priest"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2000.4,"endTime":2003.01,"body":"or priestess, if it was a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2003.01,"endTime":2005.47,"body":"priestess, they would dress as a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2003.01,"endTime":2005.47,"body":"priest, if they were a priest,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2005.47,"endTime":2007.48,"body":"they were dressed as a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2005.47,"endTime":2007.48,"body":"priestess. And actually, the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2007.48,"endTime":2011.38,"body":"bringing in of both genders, or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2007.48,"endTime":2011.38,"body":"both binary and of ways into a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2015.13,"body":"more non binary kind of presence"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2015.13,"body":"was something that was revered."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2015.16,"endTime":2020.08,"body":"Absolutely, and celebrated and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2015.16,"endTime":2020.08,"body":"lauded and yeah, very much."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2020.74,"endTime":2022.69,"body":"Yeah, recognized as a good"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2020.74,"endTime":2022.69,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2023.169,"endTime":2028.149,"body":"Yes. Well, well, if, if,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2023.169,"endTime":2028.149,"body":"if I could wish that would be"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2028.149,"endTime":2032.229,"body":"great if our society would look"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2028.149,"endTime":2032.229,"body":"to that a little bit more,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2032.259,"endTime":2036.939,"body":"instead of instead of the way"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2032.259,"endTime":2036.939,"body":"that we are currently being"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2037.269,"endTime":2045.069,"body":"being addressed, and posited"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2037.269,"endTime":2045.069,"body":"there, but so that, um, that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2045.579,"endTime":2050.079,"body":"idea of cultures, I had that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2045.579,"endTime":2050.079,"body":"idea of bringing that up as a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2050.079,"endTime":2054.519,"body":"question, because I had, I saw a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2050.079,"endTime":2054.519,"body":"post that you made that had a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2054.519,"endTime":2057.879,"body":"map from I think it was PBS or"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2054.519,"endTime":2057.879,"body":"something that was a really Yes,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2057.879,"endTime":2058.119,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2058.51,"endTime":2061.9,"body":"Broadcasting Service. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2058.51,"endTime":2061.9,"body":"yes. Yes. So,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2061.93,"endTime":2068.2,"body":"um, so that, that post, I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2061.93,"endTime":2068.2,"body":"noticed, got a whole lot of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2068.2,"endTime":2073.78,"body":"attention, because, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2068.2,"endTime":2073.78,"body":"gender is just such a hot topic."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2074.02,"endTime":2079.33,"body":"And one other thing I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2074.02,"endTime":2079.33,"body":"ask you about is really how you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2079.33,"endTime":2084.91,"body":"approach bringing up these kinds"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2079.33,"endTime":2084.91,"body":"of topics in such a in such a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2084.91,"endTime":2087.22,"body":"public forum. I mean, I know you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2084.91,"endTime":2087.22,"body":"have your course, which I like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2087.22,"endTime":2090.25,"body":"we'll touch on a little bit"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2087.22,"endTime":2090.25,"body":"before we end but I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2090.25,"endTime":2093.79,"body":"I've noticed that you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2090.25,"endTime":2093.79,"body":"you're you're delving into such"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2093.79,"endTime":2099.73,"body":"a touchy topic, and I feel like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2093.79,"endTime":2099.73,"body":"the way that you help facilitate"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2099.73,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"this horse in the comments is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2099.73,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"very open, and pretty open"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2108.43,"body":"minded and really trying to get"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2108.43,"body":"people to discuss. And then of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2108.43,"endTime":2111.76,"body":"course, sometimes there's a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2108.43,"endTime":2111.76,"body":"point where, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2111.76,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"really evident that like, this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2111.76,"endTime":2114.82,"body":"is not going anywhere good. And"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2114.82,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"we have to cut it off. But I,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2114.82,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"I've been it's I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2117.46,"endTime":2121.69,"body":"really admirable, honestly, how"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2117.46,"endTime":2121.69,"body":"you've been approaching that and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2121.69,"endTime":2124.63,"body":"kind of having that discourse."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2121.69,"endTime":2124.63,"body":"So I just wanted to ask, like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2124.63,"endTime":2129.25,"body":"when, when somebody challenges"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2124.63,"endTime":2129.25,"body":"your views online? How do you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2129.25,"endTime":2133.3,"body":"decide whether it's worth it to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2129.25,"endTime":2133.3,"body":"engage with them or not, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2133.3,"endTime":2135.94,"body":"know, or whether it's whether"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2133.3,"endTime":2135.94,"body":"it's better to kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2136.09,"endTime":2140.53,"body":"shut it down before it gets"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2136.09,"endTime":2140.53,"body":"really nasty, you know, really"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2140.53,"endTime":2141.22,"body":"hateful,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2142.03,"endTime":2145.72,"body":"have a phrase that someone"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2142.03,"endTime":2145.72,"body":"gave me a long time to two"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2148.18,"body":"phrases actually, that feel"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2145.72,"endTime":2148.18,"body":"quite important. One is that we"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2148.18,"endTime":2150.82,"body":"should move through life as if"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2148.18,"endTime":2150.82,"body":"we're moving through a wheat"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2150.82,"endTime":2154.42,"body":"field or you know, some kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2150.82,"endTime":2154.42,"body":"grain crop field. And then it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2158.59,"body":"our job to move through without"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2158.59,"body":"bruising any of that caught, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2158.59,"endTime":2161.56,"body":"know, I'm so I have this as I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2158.59,"endTime":2161.56,"body":"don't want to bruise anybody"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2161.56,"endTime":2164.11,"body":"else, even if it's just in my"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2161.56,"endTime":2164.11,"body":"reaction to the way they're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2164.11,"endTime":2167.41,"body":"being, I don't want to bruise"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2164.11,"endTime":2167.41,"body":"anybody. So even if someone's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2167.41,"endTime":2170.56,"body":"trying to bruise me, I'm still"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2167.41,"endTime":2170.56,"body":"gonna try and sidestep slightly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2170.56,"endTime":2173.44,"body":"not to bruise them back. So I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2170.56,"endTime":2173.44,"body":"think that's, that's really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2173.44,"endTime":2178.36,"body":"important for me in terms of how"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2173.44,"endTime":2178.36,"body":"I want to conduct myself,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2178.36,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"because that's how I would"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2178.36,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"rather people conduct"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2182.59,"body":"themselves. So we have to kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2182.59,"body":"of be the change we wish to see"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2182.59,"endTime":2185.8,"body":"right, and try and try and set a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2182.59,"endTime":2185.8,"body":"standard in that in that way."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2186.25,"endTime":2189.13,"body":"And the other one that I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2186.25,"endTime":2189.13,"body":"is kind of like why I sometimes"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2189.13,"endTime":2192.46,"body":"hold on past the point that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2189.13,"endTime":2192.46,"body":"others might not is that someone"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2192.46,"endTime":2195.79,"body":"said to me home is a much, much"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2192.46,"endTime":2195.79,"body":"nicer place when everyone is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2195.79,"endTime":2199.18,"body":"gathered there. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2195.79,"endTime":2199.18,"body":"seems a bit corny, but I have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2199.18,"endTime":2201.61,"body":"this idea that wouldn't it be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2199.18,"endTime":2201.61,"body":"nice if everyone could agree, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2201.61,"endTime":2204.19,"body":"don't, I don't want us to end"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2201.61,"endTime":2204.19,"body":"up, you know, on two sides of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2204.19,"endTime":2207.67,"body":"the bridge, hurling stones at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2204.19,"endTime":2207.67,"body":"each other, and this side wins,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2207.67,"endTime":2210.97,"body":"and that side loses. I just want"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2207.67,"endTime":2210.97,"body":"everyone to come over the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2210.97,"endTime":2214.75,"body":"bridge, you know, I just I want"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2210.97,"endTime":2214.75,"body":"I want everyone to come over."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2214.75,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"And I have this sense that when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2214.75,"endTime":2218.8,"body":"I do eventually just go nope,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2221.11,"body":"that's it. We're not getting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2218.8,"endTime":2221.11,"body":"anywhere here today, I would"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2221.11,"endTime":2223.36,"body":"still love it if that person"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2221.11,"endTime":2223.36,"body":"might come back in a year's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2223.36,"endTime":2226.27,"body":"time. So I still would like to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2223.36,"endTime":2226.27,"body":"end it nicely so that they might"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2226.27,"endTime":2229.66,"body":"come back, you know, when they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2226.27,"endTime":2229.66,"body":"maybe learned something else or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2229.66,"endTime":2232.69,"body":"something else drops or the seed"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2229.66,"endTime":2232.69,"body":"that we planted on that post,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2232.69,"endTime":2234.76,"body":"you know, grows a little bit"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2232.69,"endTime":2234.76,"body":"that they would still feel"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2234.76,"endTime":2239.14,"body":"welcome to return to continue"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2234.76,"endTime":2239.14,"body":"the conversation. And so, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2239.14,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"I've actually I've got about 10"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2239.14,"endTime":2242.17,"body":"people who are now really really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2245.17,"body":"supportive, supportive"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2242.17,"endTime":2245.17,"body":"followers, who when they first"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2245.17,"endTime":2249.28,"body":"came onto one of my posts were"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2245.17,"endTime":2249.28,"body":"like, Yeah, this is all absolute"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2249.28,"endTime":2251.86,"body":"nonsense. And now they're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2249.28,"endTime":2251.86,"body":"following me. They're following"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2251.86,"endTime":2254.08,"body":"my work. And they'll"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2251.86,"endTime":2254.08,"body":"occasionally tag me in posts"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2254.08,"endTime":2256.51,"body":"that people in their network"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2254.08,"endTime":2256.51,"body":"have like said something and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2256.51,"endTime":2259.78,"body":"they'll tag me and and I think I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2256.51,"endTime":2259.78,"body":"just I think it's about the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2259.78,"endTime":2262.0,"body":"groundswell we talked about it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2259.78,"endTime":2262.0,"body":"before we went live, I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2262.0,"endTime":2266.89,"body":"this idea that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2262.0,"endTime":2266.89,"body":"through creating a mask of a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2266.89,"endTime":2270.19,"body":"raising of understanding and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2266.89,"endTime":2270.19,"body":"awareness of the actual truth"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2270.19,"endTime":2273.58,"body":"around biological sex, gender"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2270.19,"endTime":2273.58,"body":"identity, and the fluidity of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2273.58,"endTime":2277.03,"body":"it, all of everything else. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2273.58,"endTime":2277.03,"body":"I think we'll we'll create a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2277.03,"endTime":2281.02,"body":"kind of like, a size of a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2277.03,"endTime":2281.02,"body":"movement, that it will be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2281.02,"endTime":2285.25,"body":"undeniable, you know, whereas"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2281.02,"endTime":2285.25,"body":"every person I cut off, or I've"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2285.25,"endTime":2288.91,"body":"had that little chance to try"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2285.25,"endTime":2288.91,"body":"and win them into the ally camp,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2288.91,"endTime":2291.52,"body":"you know, I kind of feel like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2288.91,"endTime":2291.52,"body":"no, I'm gonna I give people a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2291.52,"endTime":2294.85,"body":"little bit longer than most"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2291.52,"endTime":2294.85,"body":"would, I think, but yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2294.85,"endTime":2298.27,"body":"have had some really great, each"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2294.85,"endTime":2298.27,"body":"one of those I take as a huge"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2298.27,"endTime":2302.23,"body":"personal success, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2298.27,"endTime":2302.23,"body":"like one person that comes from"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2302.23,"endTime":2305.62,"body":"being really grumpy, really anti"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2302.23,"endTime":2305.62,"body":"really, like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2306.94,"endTime":2311.92,"body":"radically opposed to anything"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2306.94,"endTime":2311.92,"body":"other than male or female. I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2311.92,"endTime":2315.61,"body":"love it when they turn. I love"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2311.92,"endTime":2315.61,"body":"it. It's almost it means a lot"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2315.61,"endTime":2318.79,"body":"more than the 1000s and 1000s of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2315.61,"endTime":2318.79,"body":"people who totally get what I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2318.79,"endTime":2321.46,"body":"saying going Yeah, great. You're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2318.79,"endTime":2321.46,"body":"You're great. I'm like, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2321.46,"endTime":2323.65,"body":"well, that's brilliant. Course"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2321.46,"endTime":2323.65,"body":"you think that they?"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2324.01,"endTime":2326.86,"body":"Right? Yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2324.01,"endTime":2326.86,"body":"already there. Right? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2326.86,"endTime":2330.37,"body":"that's, well, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2326.86,"endTime":2330.37,"body":"really cool. I love that you've,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2333.49,"body":"you know, kind of given a little"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2333.49,"body":"insight into what how you think"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2333.49,"endTime":2336.61,"body":"about that. And, and like I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2333.49,"endTime":2336.61,"body":"said, it's just I find it"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2336.61,"endTime":2340.3,"body":"admirable because it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2336.61,"endTime":2340.3,"body":"um, I think a lot of times it's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2340.33,"endTime":2343.36,"body":"easier to shut people down. And"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2340.33,"endTime":2343.36,"body":"sometimes it feels a little"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2343.36,"endTime":2346.78,"body":"necessary and self protective."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2343.36,"endTime":2346.78,"body":"But you know, what, you kind of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2346.78,"endTime":2351.76,"body":"hit on there, excuse me is the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2346.78,"endTime":2351.76,"body":"is the other binary, which is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2351.76,"endTime":2355.93,"body":"the binary between us and them,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2351.76,"endTime":2355.93,"body":"right. And I think that that is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2355.93,"endTime":2359.65,"body":"really what I feel like and I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2355.93,"endTime":2359.65,"body":"think even people who would"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2359.65,"endTime":2364.12,"body":"totally disagree with us about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2359.65,"endTime":2364.12,"body":"sex and gender you know, some"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2364.12,"endTime":2366.55,"body":"other people can see that like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2364.12,"endTime":2366.55,"body":"that is one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2366.55,"endTime":2370.87,"body":"really is kind of tearing our"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2366.55,"endTime":2370.87,"body":"emotional world apart right now."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2371.62,"endTime":2375.97,"body":"So I just I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2371.62,"endTime":2375.97,"body":"great to have that to have that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2375.97,"endTime":2379.0,"body":"thought you know about the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2375.97,"endTime":2379.0,"body":"bridge of like, you know, let's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2379.03,"endTime":2382.51,"body":"let's all cross the bridge"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2379.03,"endTime":2382.51,"body":"together. Even if we're not"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2382.51,"endTime":2385.78,"body":"looking in the same place, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2382.51,"endTime":2385.78,"body":"know, even if we're not 100% on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2385.78,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"the same page, you know, how can"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2385.78,"endTime":2389.2,"body":"we how can we bring it together"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2394.99,"body":"and and not not be so divided"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2389.2,"endTime":2394.99,"body":"into that? That major binary of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2394.99,"endTime":2397.15,"body":"us and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2397.18,"endTime":2399.25,"body":"burn the bridges. That's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2397.18,"endTime":2399.25,"body":"the thing. Yeah, let's not go"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2399.25,"endTime":2401.77,"body":"around burning for edges, let's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2399.25,"endTime":2401.77,"body":"leave the bridges and just"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2402.31,"endTime":2404.11,"body":"gradually tempt people over."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2404.71,"endTime":2412.36,"body":"Right. Right. I love that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2404.71,"endTime":2412.36,"body":"idea. Um, okay, well, another"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2412.36,"endTime":2416.02,"body":"question for you this is a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2412.36,"endTime":2416.02,"body":"little more personal. How has"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2416.02,"endTime":2420.82,"body":"all of this research on gender"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2416.02,"endTime":2420.82,"body":"affected you personally and your"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2420.85,"endTime":2423.55,"body":"you know, your relationship with"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2420.85,"endTime":2423.55,"body":"yourself and your your your own"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2423.55,"endTime":2424.15,"body":"identity?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2427.9,"body":"That's so massive. So it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2427.9,"body":"never even dawned on me to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2427.9,"endTime":2433.09,"body":"question my own gender like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2427.9,"endTime":2433.09,"body":"that. Who knew? Oh, and so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2433.09,"endTime":2436.21,"body":"I started on this journey, it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2433.09,"endTime":2436.21,"body":"was back about 2016 that I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2436.21,"endTime":2439.15,"body":"really started picking it all"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2436.21,"endTime":2439.15,"body":"apart. And then I suppose I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2439.15,"endTime":2441.55,"body":"don't even know which day it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2439.15,"endTime":2441.55,"body":"was. But one day, well, isn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2441.55,"endTime":2446.5,"body":"that funny? Maybe I'm non"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2441.55,"endTime":2446.5,"body":"binary. It was like, Maybe I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2446.5,"endTime":2449.83,"body":"non binary. And it suddenly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2446.5,"endTime":2449.83,"body":"started to make sense of my"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2449.83,"endTime":2453.55,"body":"whole life. And I've had several"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2449.83,"endTime":2453.55,"body":"of my school friends who've"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2453.55,"endTime":2456.43,"body":"actually said, oh, yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2453.55,"endTime":2456.43,"body":"makes total sense. I might."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2456.43,"endTime":2461.77,"body":"Yeah, it makes total sense. It's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2456.43,"endTime":2461.77,"body":"just total sense. So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2461.77,"endTime":2464.08,"body":"mean, I'm really drawn to go"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2461.77,"endTime":2464.08,"body":"over to sort of crazy to meet"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2464.08,"endTime":2467.17,"body":"the biggest people to find out,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2464.08,"endTime":2467.17,"body":"you know, can someone like who"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2467.17,"endTime":2470.41,"body":"is like assigned female at birth"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2467.17,"endTime":2470.41,"body":"be Bisou? Because I honestly"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2470.41,"endTime":2473.08,"body":"think if I'd been born in their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2470.41,"endTime":2473.08,"body":"society, I'd have been spotted"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2473.08,"endTime":2478.63,"body":"as Bisou from looking at kind of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2473.08,"endTime":2478.63,"body":"this Hi. So yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2478.63,"endTime":2482.95,"body":"that's, it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2478.63,"endTime":2482.95,"body":"what it's done for me. And it's"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2482.95,"endTime":2486.22,"body":"just been incredible. So I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2482.95,"endTime":2486.22,"body":"I kind of sometimes lightly say"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2486.22,"endTime":2489.01,"body":"that I identify as non binary,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2486.22,"endTime":2489.01,"body":"because having looked behind the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2489.01,"endTime":2491.8,"body":"veil that behind the curtain,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2489.01,"endTime":2491.8,"body":"and I can see that biological"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2491.8,"endTime":2494.98,"body":"sex isn't binary gender identity"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2491.8,"endTime":2494.98,"body":"isn't binary. Why would I give"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2494.98,"endTime":2498.91,"body":"myself a label that really kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2494.98,"endTime":2498.91,"body":"of fits everybody into that kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2498.91,"endTime":2501.46,"body":"of binary construct, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2498.91,"endTime":2501.46,"body":"make any sense to me anymore. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2501.46,"endTime":2506.2,"body":"it's a bit of a statement. But"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2501.46,"endTime":2506.2,"body":"it is also very much how I feel."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2506.2,"endTime":2509.47,"body":"And so it's really interesting."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2506.2,"endTime":2509.47,"body":"And I still a lot of my friends"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2509.47,"endTime":2511.87,"body":"still call me my birth name,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2509.47,"endTime":2511.87,"body":"Cheryl. A lot of my friends"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2511.87,"endTime":2515.14,"body":"still she heard me, I still call"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2511.87,"endTime":2515.14,"body":"myself Terrell, sometimes I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2515.14,"endTime":2518.53,"body":"still see her myself. But when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2515.14,"endTime":2518.53,"body":"someone calls me che, and when"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2518.53,"endTime":2522.73,"body":"people say them, me, hi, I can't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2518.53,"endTime":2522.73,"body":"even stop them. I just feel so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2522.73,"endTime":2525.34,"body":"much happier. And when I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2522.73,"endTime":2525.34,"body":"remember like to do for myself,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2525.34,"endTime":2530.11,"body":"you know, it's it's just it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2525.34,"endTime":2530.11,"body":"feels so right. But yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2530.11,"endTime":2533.92,"body":"think we do all still live in a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2530.11,"endTime":2533.92,"body":"world where you know, I'm here"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2533.92,"endTime":2536.38,"body":"being very brave on the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2533.92,"endTime":2536.38,"body":"internet, but it's kind of like,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2536.38,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"I'm almost braver on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2536.38,"endTime":2539.26,"body":"than I am like, with my own"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2539.26,"endTime":2544.57,"body":"family and my own friends. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2539.26,"endTime":2544.57,"body":"yeah, it's an interesting place"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2544.57,"endTime":2549.61,"body":"to find myself. And I feel like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2544.57,"endTime":2549.61,"body":"I'm in transition whilst the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2549.61,"endTime":2553.03,"body":"world is in transition. And I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2549.61,"endTime":2553.03,"body":"hope that there will be a future"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2553.03,"endTime":2556.72,"body":"where, for me to transition"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2553.03,"endTime":2556.72,"body":"totally and be in this new total"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2556.72,"endTime":2559.93,"body":"place would be something"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2556.72,"endTime":2559.93,"body":"everyone would accept about me."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2560.77,"endTime":2564.16,"body":"Without feeling like I need to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2560.77,"endTime":2564.16,"body":"close doors on friendships and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2564.16,"endTime":2569.92,"body":"things like that, which, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2564.16,"endTime":2569.92,"body":"it feels like, it's hard not to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2569.92,"endTime":2572.65,"body":"have to do that, given the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2569.92,"endTime":2572.65,"body":"background level of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2572.65,"endTime":2576.76,"body":"misunderstanding in the world at"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2572.65,"endTime":2576.76,"body":"the minute. It's very hard. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2577.0,"endTime":2579.82,"body":"yeah, all of my research has led"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2577.0,"endTime":2579.82,"body":"me into some really interesting"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2579.82,"endTime":2583.75,"body":"places, I understand myself so"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2579.82,"endTime":2583.75,"body":"much better. Now. I look at the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2583.75,"endTime":2589.45,"body":"me trying to fit in. I cringe"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2583.75,"endTime":2589.45,"body":"some of the me trying to be a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2589.45,"endTime":2592.69,"body":"good girl or a good woman or a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2589.45,"endTime":2592.69,"body":"good wife or a good you know,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2593.14,"endTime":2598.54,"body":"all of those things. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2593.14,"endTime":2598.54,"body":"I, I have two children myself."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2598.99,"endTime":2603.37,"body":"They're both boys. And I really"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2598.99,"endTime":2603.37,"body":"hope that the future for them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2603.37,"endTime":2606.4,"body":"and for their kids, if they have"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2603.37,"endTime":2606.4,"body":"kids and for their friends will"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2606.4,"endTime":2609.94,"body":"be one where they can just be"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2606.4,"endTime":2609.94,"body":"who on earth, they feel like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2609.94,"endTime":2615.97,"body":"being without judgment from"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2609.94,"endTime":2615.97,"body":"anyone for that. Because I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2615.97,"endTime":2619.42,"body":"yeah, I imagine my childhood"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2615.97,"endTime":2619.42,"body":"now. And I think, Gosh, that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2619.42,"endTime":2624.73,"body":"could have been more joyous, it"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2619.42,"endTime":2624.73,"body":"could have been more uniquely me"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2624.73,"endTime":2628.06,"body":"being me, rather than me trying"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2624.73,"endTime":2628.06,"body":"to be something that didn't"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2628.06,"endTime":2630.34,"body":"really fit. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2630.58,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"well, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2630.58,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"sharing all of that, that that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2633.31,"endTime":2636.82,"body":"is. I mean, that makes sense."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2633.31,"endTime":2636.82,"body":"With all the research you've"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2636.82,"endTime":2639.82,"body":"done that is led to that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2636.82,"endTime":2639.82,"body":"introspection, and I totally"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2639.82,"endTime":2644.38,"body":"feel you on the, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2639.82,"endTime":2644.38,"body":"is something about an online"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2644.38,"endTime":2647.41,"body":"presence. That is, even though"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2644.38,"endTime":2647.41,"body":"you're not anonymous, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2647.41,"endTime":2649.69,"body":"especially on LinkedIn, it's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2647.41,"endTime":2649.69,"body":"you're not you're not using like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2649.69,"endTime":2653.29,"body":"a, a handle, that's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2649.69,"endTime":2653.29,"body":"some combination of alphanumeric"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2653.29,"endTime":2657.19,"body":"characters but but that, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2653.29,"endTime":2657.19,"body":"know, it is your first name and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2657.19,"endTime":2659.32,"body":"your last name, and they can,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2657.19,"endTime":2659.32,"body":"you know, people can see like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2659.32,"endTime":2661.54,"body":"where you worked, and generally"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2659.32,"endTime":2661.54,"body":"where you live and things like"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2661.54,"endTime":2665.02,"body":"that, but there was still kind"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2661.54,"endTime":2665.02,"body":"of a veil of anonymity that is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2665.02,"endTime":2671.38,"body":"there that is a lot different"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2665.02,"endTime":2671.38,"body":"than, than having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2671.38,"endTime":2673.45,"body":"with someone in the same"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2671.38,"endTime":2673.45,"body":"physical space, in a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2673.45,"endTime":2677.2,"body":"conversation with someone who"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2673.45,"endTime":2677.2,"body":"has known you your whole life,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2677.2,"endTime":2679.9,"body":"or you've known them their whole"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2677.2,"endTime":2679.9,"body":"life. I mean, it is a different."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2680.38,"endTime":2685.63,"body":"It's definitely a different set"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2680.38,"endTime":2685.63,"body":"of stakes. For sure, going on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2685.63,"endTime":2688.93,"body":"there. So that's interesting."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2685.63,"endTime":2688.93,"body":"And I think, you know, generally"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2688.93,"endTime":2691.51,"body":"I mean, what you know, what you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2688.93,"endTime":2691.51,"body":"said about your kids is like, I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2691.51,"endTime":2694.3,"body":"think all parents want they just"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2691.51,"endTime":2694.3,"body":"want their kids to be loved and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2694.3,"endTime":2698.71,"body":"to have a good life. You know,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2694.3,"endTime":2698.71,"body":"ultimately, that's like That's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2698.71,"endTime":2702.91,"body":"every parent's dream right? it."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2698.71,"endTime":2702.91,"body":"So that that makes sense. And"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2702.91,"endTime":2706.27,"body":"I'm sure that a, there are"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2702.91,"endTime":2706.27,"body":"certain ways that you have to be"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2706.27,"endTime":2709.66,"body":"paving the way for your boys to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2706.27,"endTime":2709.66,"body":"be taking that on and just in in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2709.66,"endTime":2713.95,"body":"what you have decided to do and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2709.66,"endTime":2713.95,"body":"this career that you have built"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2713.95,"endTime":2715.63,"body":"for yourself. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2716.56,"endTime":2719.77,"body":"I've just come back from a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2716.56,"endTime":2719.77,"body":"lovely little local festival and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2720.07,"endTime":2724.24,"body":"my boy and one of his friends,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2720.07,"endTime":2724.24,"body":"that two of his friends got"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2724.24,"endTime":2727.72,"body":"involved in a dance routine with"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2724.24,"endTime":2727.72,"body":"all the girls like everyone was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2727.72,"endTime":2732.31,"body":"just like, breaking down"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2727.72,"endTime":2732.31,"body":"barriers. And the one night"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2732.31,"endTime":2734.41,"body":"everyone was getting dressed up,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2732.31,"endTime":2734.41,"body":"they had glitter all over their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2734.41,"endTime":2738.01,"body":"face. And yeah, it was it was"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2734.41,"endTime":2738.01,"body":"really, really fun to see them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2738.01,"endTime":2742.54,"body":"busting down some of those"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2738.01,"endTime":2742.54,"body":"boundaries and barriers. I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2742.54,"endTime":2745.63,"body":"society puts in the way, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2742.54,"endTime":2745.63,"body":"know, the embarrassment, the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2745.63,"endTime":2749.41,"body":"kind of like the desire to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2745.63,"endTime":2749.41,"body":"conform, and to watch my son"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2752.5,"body":"being part of a group of kids"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2749.41,"endTime":2752.5,"body":"who are just busting all of that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2752.5,"endTime":2756.13,"body":"out there. It's some Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2752.5,"endTime":2756.13,"body":"absolutely delighted. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2756.19,"endTime":2756.55,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2756.58,"endTime":2758.89,"body":"yeah, it's wonderful. And"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2756.58,"endTime":2758.89,"body":"I definitely think that the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2758.89,"endTime":2763.99,"body":"younger generation is, is very"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2758.89,"endTime":2763.99,"body":"resistant to, to this rigid,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2764.56,"endTime":2769.84,"body":"binary construct very much Gen"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2764.56,"endTime":2769.84,"body":"Z, for sure. But Gen alpha,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2769.87,"endTime":2775.72,"body":"like, absolutely. You know, in"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2769.87,"endTime":2775.72,"body":"in conversations with younger"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2775.72,"endTime":2779.56,"body":"kids, and even high school aged"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2775.72,"endTime":2779.56,"body":"kids, like they're just like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2779.59,"endTime":2783.43,"body":"throw that right out the window."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2779.59,"endTime":2783.43,"body":"So yeah, I have I have hoped for"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2783.43,"endTime":2784.75,"body":"that for them to."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2785.71,"endTime":2788.53,"body":"Definitely. And I think"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2785.71,"endTime":2788.53,"body":"it's like weather organizations"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2790.12,"body":"are like, Oh, we don't need to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2788.53,"endTime":2790.12,"body":"need, we don't need to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2790.12,"endTime":2793.27,"body":"understand gender diversity. I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2790.12,"endTime":2793.27,"body":"like, oh, okay, so you're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2793.27,"endTime":2795.85,"body":"closing your business in the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2793.27,"endTime":2795.85,"body":"next five to 10 years, you're"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2795.85,"endTime":2798.85,"body":"never going to need to employ"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2795.85,"endTime":2798.85,"body":"Gen Zed. Okay, that's great."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2798.85,"endTime":2803.35,"body":"Well, if that's your status,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2798.85,"endTime":2803.35,"body":"that's wonderful. Yeah, by by"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2803.35,"endTime":2808.81,"body":"business, yeah. 23% of Gen Zed"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2803.35,"endTime":2808.81,"body":"use a day then pronoun to some"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2808.81,"endTime":2812.65,"body":"degree or other 23% of Gen Z."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2808.81,"endTime":2812.65,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2813.52,"endTime":2819.28,"body":"Yes. Yes, it is. It is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2813.52,"endTime":2819.28,"body":"beautiful. And, and personally,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2819.28,"endTime":2822.73,"body":"I want to do everything I can to"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2819.28,"endTime":2822.73,"body":"like bulldoze that down for them"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2822.73,"endTime":2826.57,"body":"and like, clear that path so"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2822.73,"endTime":2826.57,"body":"that they can like, keep going"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2826.78,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"in whatever way feels right for"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2826.78,"endTime":2830.65,"body":"them, you know? So that's cool."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2834.13,"body":"Well, that kind of leads to my"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2830.65,"endTime":2834.13,"body":"last question, which is about"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2834.13,"endTime":2838.27,"body":"your course. So, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2834.13,"endTime":2838.27,"body":"recently launched this online"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2838.27,"endTime":2843.76,"body":"course? Who did you have a"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2838.27,"endTime":2843.76,"body":"particular person or set of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2843.76,"endTime":2847.24,"body":"people in mind when you were"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2843.76,"endTime":2847.24,"body":"when you were writing it? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2847.24,"endTime":2850.0,"body":"And what you know, and what can"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2847.24,"endTime":2850.0,"body":"someone expect to learn from it?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2850.149,"endTime":2852.879,"body":"Um, yeah, I'm, I'm a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2850.149,"endTime":2852.879,"body":"Marketing persons nightmare."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2852.879,"endTime":2856.329,"body":"Because if you say, Who's the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2852.879,"endTime":2856.329,"body":"course for? I don't do that."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2856.329,"endTime":2860.049,"body":"Yes, it's for these people. I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2856.329,"endTime":2860.049,"body":"think really what the course is,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2860.049,"endTime":2863.649,"body":"is it's a very, very top level"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2860.049,"endTime":2863.649,"body":"overview and introduction to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2863.649,"endTime":2865.989,"body":"quite a lot the stuff we've been"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2863.649,"endTime":2865.989,"body":"talking about today, but in a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2865.989,"endTime":2869.199,"body":"really, really clear and easy to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2865.989,"endTime":2869.199,"body":"understand framework that I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2869.199,"endTime":2873.189,"body":"think is useful for a variety of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2869.199,"endTime":2873.189,"body":"people, be it somebody who"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2873.189,"endTime":2875.409,"body":"already understands all of this,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2873.189,"endTime":2875.409,"body":"but just doesn't know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2875.409,"endTime":2877.659,"body":"all about, and wants to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2875.409,"endTime":2877.659,"body":"understand what I'm all about."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2877.659,"endTime":2880.539,"body":"So it can be useful for them."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2877.659,"endTime":2880.539,"body":"It's useful for somebody who"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2880.539,"endTime":2883.599,"body":"doesn't understand a word of it,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2880.539,"endTime":2883.599,"body":"who just wants to kind of like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2883.599,"endTime":2887.139,"body":"find something that they can"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2883.599,"endTime":2887.139,"body":"ground it. And I think that I"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2887.139,"endTime":2890.379,"body":"kind of talk in the course about"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2887.139,"endTime":2890.379,"body":"how, if you're trying to talk to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2890.379,"endTime":2893.109,"body":"someone who doesn't understand"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2890.379,"endTime":2893.109,"body":"gender diversity at all, and you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2893.109,"endTime":2895.479,"body":"suddenly start talking about"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2893.109,"endTime":2895.479,"body":"someone's right to be non"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2895.479,"endTime":2899.469,"body":"binary, there's nothing for them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2895.479,"endTime":2899.469,"body":"to ground that in order for them"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2899.469,"endTime":2902.349,"body":"to route it in that makes any"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2899.469,"endTime":2902.349,"body":"kind of conceptual sense to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2902.349,"endTime":2905.919,"body":"them. And so I think the whole"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2902.349,"endTime":2905.919,"body":"course really is about"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2906.849,"endTime":2910.569,"body":"introducing a framework and a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2906.849,"endTime":2910.569,"body":"way of helping people to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2910.569,"endTime":2913.719,"body":"understand this that they can"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2910.569,"endTime":2913.719,"body":"come along with, get on board"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2913.719,"endTime":2918.999,"body":"with and at the end of the guy."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2913.719,"endTime":2918.999,"body":"Yeah, I get it now. So yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2919.029,"endTime":2922.179,"body":"I mean, that could be somebody"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2919.029,"endTime":2922.179,"body":"who's got an HR role within an"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2922.179,"endTime":2924.909,"body":"organization, and maybe the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2922.179,"endTime":2924.909,"body":"gender piece is just something"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2924.909,"endTime":2928.629,"body":"they're just not sure about. Or"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2924.909,"endTime":2928.629,"body":"it could be that they're, you"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2928.629,"endTime":2931.059,"body":"know, they do get it, but they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2928.629,"endTime":2931.059,"body":"wouldn't have to explain it to"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2931.059,"endTime":2934.179,"body":"somebody else. And this"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2931.059,"endTime":2934.179,"body":"framework will help them explain"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2934.179,"endTime":2937.179,"body":"it to other people in a way that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2934.179,"endTime":2937.179,"body":"makes sense quickly and easily."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2937.179,"endTime":2940.989,"body":"So, yeah, for anybody really."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2937.179,"endTime":2940.989,"body":"And also, I know already that"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2940.989,"endTime":2946.509,"body":"actually, one of my friends"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2940.989,"endTime":2946.509,"body":"showed it to their somebody else"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2946.509,"endTime":2949.599,"body":"that they knew a kid that they"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2946.509,"endTime":2949.599,"body":"know, and that kid is actually"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2949.629,"endTime":2952.119,"body":"now recommended onto their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2949.629,"endTime":2952.119,"body":"parents, I don't know whether"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2952.119,"endTime":2956.409,"body":"their parents, I hope their"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2952.119,"endTime":2956.409,"body":"parents might watch it. Because"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2956.409,"endTime":2960.369,"body":"at home, they're experiencing a"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2956.409,"endTime":2960.369,"body":"lot of kind of denial, or any of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2960.369,"endTime":2964.029,"body":"this being true or irrelevant in"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2960.369,"endTime":2964.029,"body":"any way. So that's where the"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2964.029,"endTime":2966.879,"body":"science and the natural world"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2964.029,"endTime":2966.879,"body":"and the different culture stuff"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2966.879,"endTime":2970.059,"body":"can be really helpful sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2966.879,"endTime":2970.059,"body":"because I think it takes us out"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2970.059,"endTime":2972.909,"body":"of the realm of constructs and"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2970.059,"endTime":2972.909,"body":"things that people are making up"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2973.449,"endTime":2978.099,"body":"into actual facts, facts,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2973.449,"endTime":2978.099,"body":"statistics and science that are"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":2978.099,"endTime":2979.719,"body":"undeniable. So yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2980.83,"endTime":2982.81,"body":"Yeah, that that makes"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2980.83,"endTime":2982.81,"body":"sense. I think that definitely"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2982.81,"endTime":2986.41,"body":"rings true. And I also sometimes"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2982.81,"endTime":2986.41,"body":"just having someone who is"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2986.83,"endTime":2991.84,"body":"removed from the situation. I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2986.83,"endTime":2991.84,"body":"mean, you know, and definitely,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2992.26,"endTime":2997.0,"body":"the scientific facts and the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2992.26,"endTime":2997.0,"body":"cultural facts, help help build"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2997.0,"endTime":2999.85,"body":"that, you know, build that,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2997.0,"endTime":2999.85,"body":"excuse me build that evidence"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2999.85,"endTime":3003.87,"body":"for Write, but also just, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":2999.85,"endTime":3003.87,"body":"know, having someone present it"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3003.87,"endTime":3007.68,"body":"that is not the person that"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3003.87,"endTime":3007.68,"body":"those people who are resistant"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3007.68,"endTime":3010.53,"body":"to those ideas are so attached"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3007.68,"endTime":3010.53,"body":"to, you know, and they're like,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3010.56,"endTime":3014.58,"body":"oh, it's Wait, this is not just"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3010.56,"endTime":3014.58,"body":"you. Like, and this is not just"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3014.58,"endTime":3017.76,"body":"like the young people and, you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3014.58,"endTime":3017.76,"body":"know, it kind of it kind of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3017.76,"endTime":3022.26,"body":"starts to break down those"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3017.76,"endTime":3022.26,"body":"barriers in that way. So, and as"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3022.26,"endTime":3025.53,"body":"you mentioned a couple of"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3022.26,"endTime":3025.53,"body":"minutes ago, for businesses who"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3025.56,"endTime":3030.18,"body":"are looking to stay in business"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3025.56,"endTime":3030.18,"body":"and will need to some of these"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3030.18,"endTime":3036.36,"body":"younger, more open folks, this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3030.18,"endTime":3036.36,"body":"could be really useful. So well,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3036.42,"endTime":3040.2,"body":"um, how do people? How would"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3036.42,"endTime":3040.2,"body":"people find you online? How"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3040.2,"endTime":3041.58,"body":"would they find your course?"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3042.42,"endTime":3045.45,"body":"Yeah, great. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3042.42,"endTime":3045.45,"body":"LinkedIn is where I hang out"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3045.45,"endTime":3047.91,"body":"and, and share a lot of"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3045.45,"endTime":3047.91,"body":"information for free. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3047.91,"endTime":3050.94,"body":"there in DMS, and anyone can"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3047.91,"endTime":3050.94,"body":"book like a free 20 minute kind"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3050.94,"endTime":3053.04,"body":"of like virtual couple with me"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3050.94,"endTime":3053.04,"body":"if they've got some like"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3053.07,"endTime":3055.2,"body":"questions around all of this. So"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3053.07,"endTime":3055.2,"body":"that's my name, there is"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3055.2,"endTime":3059.07,"body":"Shavonne CH, D bond. So find me"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3055.2,"endTime":3059.07,"body":"on LinkedIn. And the other place"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3059.07,"endTime":3061.89,"body":"is my website. And that's got"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3059.07,"endTime":3061.89,"body":"kind of links to all the various"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3061.89,"endTime":3066.15,"body":"things including the course. And"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3061.89,"endTime":3066.15,"body":"that's let's talk gender.co.uk."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3066.72,"endTime":3068.85,"body":"All right, let's put everything"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3066.72,"endTime":3068.85,"body":"on there. All the various bits"},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3068.85,"endTime":3069.96,"body":"and pieces. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3071.1,"endTime":3072.06,"body":"Wonderful."},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":3072.72,"endTime":3074.73,"body":"listeners will be able"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":3072.72,"endTime":3074.73,"body":"to find all the information in"},{"speaker":"Vanessa","startTime":3074.73,"endTime":3075.69,"body":"the description."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3076.5,"endTime":3079.02,"body":"Okay, great. Yes, yes, we"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3076.5,"endTime":3079.02,"body":"will add that information to the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3079.02,"endTime":3083.19,"body":"description of this episode."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3079.02,"endTime":3083.19,"body":"Well, great. Well, I think we"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3083.19,"endTime":3087.03,"body":"can wrap up now. Shea, thank you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3083.19,"endTime":3087.03,"body":"so much for joining us for this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3087.03,"endTime":3091.71,"body":"episode. For all of our"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3087.03,"endTime":3091.71,"body":"listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3091.71,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"so much, really appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3091.71,"endTime":3096.27,"body":"It's for all of our listeners."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3099.57,"body":"Don't forget to like, comment,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3096.27,"endTime":3099.57,"body":"and subscribe. You can find this"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3099.57,"endTime":3103.71,"body":"podcast on YouTube, Spotify,"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3099.57,"endTime":3103.71,"body":"Apple podcasts, and pretty much"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3103.71,"endTime":3107.19,"body":"anywhere you get your podcasts."},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3103.71,"endTime":3107.19,"body":"You can also access the audio"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3107.19,"endTime":3110.64,"body":"files, the YouTube video and"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3107.19,"endTime":3110.64,"body":"audio transcripts directly on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3110.64,"endTime":3113.91,"body":"our site at transcending"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3110.64,"endTime":3113.91,"body":"humanity.com where we have links"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3113.91,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"now. And this is all Vanessa. I"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3113.91,"endTime":3120.96,"body":"mean, I just have the spiel on"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3124.41,"body":"this one because I've got the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3120.96,"endTime":3124.41,"body":"host hat on but Vanessa is the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3124.56,"endTime":3129.57,"body":"is the fabulous person to set"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3124.56,"endTime":3129.57,"body":"all of this up and keep it all"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3129.57,"endTime":3133.89,"body":"going. And we have links on our"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3129.57,"endTime":3133.89,"body":"site to become a patron as well"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3133.89,"endTime":3136.08,"body":"if you would like to support the"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3133.89,"endTime":3136.08,"body":"show because we are currently"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3136.08,"endTime":3141.09,"body":"self funded. So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3136.08,"endTime":3141.09,"body":"about it. Thank you for joining"},{"speaker":"Jess","startTime":3141.09,"endTime":3142.26,"body":"us. And"},{"speaker":"Transcending Humanity","startTime":3143.61,"endTime":3145.65,"body":"thank you"},{"speaker":"Transcending Humanity","startTime":3143.61,"endTime":3145.65,"body":"for having me. Yes, yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Transcending Humanity","startTime":3145.65,"endTime":3146.31,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Che","startTime":3147.3,"endTime":3148.62,"body":"Ah, you're so welcome!"}]}