John Yin - Growing A Sustainable Commercial Cannabis Business - Get Up & Grow Podcast EP #1

On this inaugural episode of the podcast we interview my good friend John Yin, Owner and Head Grower of Washington Tower Farm in Aderbeen, WA, just outside of Seattle. John is a University of Washington graduate with a degree in chemistry who dove into the cannabis industry after graduation and has been running his commercial business for the last 6.5 years. John has used his extensive knowledge, passion and resiliency to build a sustainable business in the PNW and was kind enough to share some of his time with us. 

We discuss some of the following:

• The challenges of growing high quality plants and what steps he takes to maintain consistent yields.
• Finding his niche in the industry.
• Strategies for facing turbulent market changes.
• How important sustainability is and how he has integrated it into his farm.
• How using the correct lighting for growing can have an impact on your end product.
• Tips for anyone thinking of starting a commercial cannabis facility or just growing plants at home themselves.
• How to balance work and downtime when running a commercial facility.

This Podcast is dedicated to growers like you so we appreciate your feedback so we can provide the best experience possible for the grower community. 

Now Get Up & Grow! 

Taylor S.

Transcript

00:00
Right, this is why I like your story

00:01
because you were not given a blank check.

00:04
You came out of college, you went straight into this

00:08
and you figured it out on your own.

00:10
You didn't have this infinite pot of money.

00:13
So your processes were super efficient.

00:16
They weren't just huge facility,

00:19
top of the line, everything.

00:21
You made it work.

00:22
So that's why this is super interesting for people to hear

00:26
because you don't hear stories like this very often.

00:30
So thank you for that.

00:50
Hi John, welcome to the program.

00:52
It's really great to have you and a long time no see.

00:58
Hey, how's going man?

00:59
Long time no see.

01:00
How's everything going down in Aberdeen?

01:04
You know, life as a grower, it's how it is.

01:08
You know, garden working, loving the plans,

01:10
and grinding every day.

01:12
Yeah, I remember when I first met you

01:14
and I got to get down to your farm

01:17
and it was actually just starting up.

01:19
Like you taught me so much about the process of,

01:23
like cannabis from a commercial standpoint,

01:25
it is not an easy job, especially when you're food strapping.

01:30
You know, maybe we can talk a bit about that experience.

01:34
and how you got started in the cannabis industry.

01:40
Yeah, absolutely.

01:41
So hi guys, I'm John.

01:43
I am currently my occupation is the master grower

01:48
and slash owner of Washington Tower Farm.

01:51
I started growing when I was a chemistry student

01:55
at University of Washington.

01:57
Love weed, you know,

01:59
started as a class of grow,

02:01
love to share my flower with my friends.

02:05
And fast forward until I graduated, you know,

02:07
looking for work.

02:10
legalization hit. And I saw an opportunity, I think it'll be interesting to bring some

02:15
chemistry knowledge and my passion into cannabis industry. And that's how I did, you know,

02:22
Poe, Poe, all my old grown notes, study, trying to look for new position opening and study

02:29
a little bit and when I look for my first job.

02:33
So you eventually got employed and then how did you end up with your own farm? What was

02:40
story and transition.

02:45
Yeah, I mean, it was a completely brand new industry.

02:48
I started working for someone else

02:50
because I just got a college learning how to do the business

02:53
and knowing how this industry is like kind of testing the water.

02:58
And after two, three years of working for my own employer,

03:03
I find that I acquired the skill and my knowledge.

03:06
I think I can start it on my own.

03:08
I had the passion and drive and took time

03:15
and just went out there looking for, started with friends and family and wore the mouth and

03:20
starting talking to investors. And luckily we was and still is a very hot topic out there and

03:27
people love to talk about it and and see if there's opportunity. So that's how I got it in.

03:33
And basically when you started, I was there in the beginning, just kind of you were kind

03:45
the hoop houses, indoors.

03:47
Where were you located?

03:49
And what was that finding that location like?

03:55
Yeah, finding location is a rough one.

03:58
It's, you gotta find, you don't wanna be the rent to be too high.

04:02
You definitely wanna watch out for your overhead.

04:06
It took us roughly about almost a year to find a perfect location.

04:11
We wanna reside.

04:12
That is closer to the city, but not too close.

04:15
That has, you know, a great layout, you know, good electricity cost and clean water.

04:22
And that's how I started.

04:25
me quite a long time to acquire my license and scoping out for a good spot and saw the off on

04:31
there. And I'm located in Abidin, Washington. So that's basically right below Olympia National Park

04:38
as natural as it can be. Live out here is very beautiful. You're right on the door to the

04:45
Olympic National Park and very beautiful area. And you're also like I said about two hours

04:55
going after the target customer.

05:02
Yep, correct.

05:03
Like Seattle, greater area.

05:06
My farm is about roughly about hour and 30 minutes away.

05:09
Okay, and I remember being on the farm with you

05:11
and you were doing pH testing on the water

05:15
and you were saying how important that was.

05:17
That was just one of many things you were focused on.

05:22
Can you kind of go into like your process

05:25
as a cannabis grower and what sets you apart

05:30
with your chemistry background?

05:36
Well, you know, everybody has their own,

05:41
their own secret sauce and recipe or their niche, right?

05:45
I mean, I think for me, it is more like,

05:48
since I'm a chemistry dude,

05:51
I look things more from the molecular level.

05:54
I like to think that everything is structured up

05:57
with tiny molecules and acting like a Lego building block

06:03
basically.

06:04
And from there,

06:06
blocks and you slowly, slowly building into a structure that you love.

06:10
And my idea of how to grow wheat is essentially this way by looking to the nutrients.

06:17
Basically, it's the building block and then you're looking into the environment.

06:22
If it is right condition and the right energy consumption into the light, the right conversion

06:30
of water, nutrient and light conversion into energy and growth in biomass.

06:36
I like to view things towards that perspective

06:39
and creating a good symbolic relationship

06:43
in between the soil and the plan.

06:45
I mean, since they are living things,

06:47
you want to have this tiny worker

06:49
that acts like an additional worker in the Ryzen Zone

06:53
and then prepare the nutrient for the plants to take more.

06:57
And you had this dream in the beginning

07:00
and what are some of the early steps or things

07:03
that you maybe if you could look back,

07:06
what would you say to yourself in those early days

07:10
that you could maybe use to optimize your grow?

07:18
Well, so I started as a very craft grower.

07:21
It still is, but as a commercial level, it is really hard to do 100% craft.

07:27
And you need to know what's your strong, which are weakness, and focusing on your strength.

07:32
And trying to adapt and learn and infix your weakness.

07:37
For me, I think knowing your cost is definitely number one because you want to do this as a

07:44
business.

07:45
I'm a commercial grower.

07:48
want to maintain the craft, the right techniques, and the right balance of

07:53
nutrient and everything to achieve your your your best growth, the most

07:58
perfect crop. But still, everything is it's important factors. There's not a

08:05
thing more important than the others. It is everything is kind of like in the

08:09
Rye Ratio and everything is kind of acting like a symbiotic relationship.

08:13
They all link one to the other and one thing off-throw.

08:18
the entire production to be off. Right. So what were some of those early challenges if you don't

08:25
mind? You can be honest. I think that's part of the show here is to share the challenges and

08:31
you know giving, letting people know that you know we all experienced this kind of thing

08:35
when it comes to efficiency and yeah I think for my, makers, yeah for my biggest challenge

08:48
20, 30, 40 plants up to a couple thousand plants and you know, managing small quantity versus

08:54
big quantity is a very big difference, you know, that's number one in numbers.

09:00
You know, on the nutrient, when you grow small and boutique and craft and especially you

09:06
growing as a hobbyist, you'd be able to use the best product.

09:09
Anything that is the best for your plants doing the right technique and bring out the best

09:15
flower.

09:18
You gotta know that where the market resides,

09:20
how much are people paying since it is more normalized now.

09:26
There's a fixed price for what we should be selling at.

09:30
And not everybody's a craft smoker,

09:33
but at the same time, since the legalization,

09:36
people's taste for flour is definitely grew a lot.

09:39
And people require, they demand higher quality.

09:43
So the ratio from how much money you spend

09:46
into your crop and how much you've

09:48
you getting out of it is very critical and essential.

09:51
And throughout your process, of course,

09:53
you want to watch how you're spending your labor

09:57
and into how much you're spending on your nutrient.

10:00
And if the bottle nutrients are way too expensive,

10:04
there are many ways that you can achieve

10:06
a better nutrient system by doing a little bit

10:09
Frankenstein.

10:10
And in my case, since I do have that background,

10:13
I am lucky that I know how to put together

10:18
for a different factor with cheaper price.

10:20
Yeah, that's got to be huge because some people might have no idea where to start with that.

10:27
Did you kind of, you did it all yourself when it came to combining things or you had some

10:32
places you could look for some advice on that?

10:39
Well, definitely out there, there's a lot of basic nutrient that comes into three parts

10:44
and we basically call it the salt base.

10:47
The salt base nutrients aren't as good as organic or any other bottle line, but they

10:53
got 80% of the job done.

10:55
And which are missing other organic factor, which all the bottle nutrient and trying to

11:00
introduce and the microise, the microbes.

11:04
So what I did is basically looking for the lines that I like to use.

11:09
and that I study at that I'm familiar with.

11:12
And then from there using a three parts as your base

11:14
and start adding different booster and, you know,

11:20
different nutrient, different booster

11:21
into what you need at different stages of the girl cycle.

11:24
This kind of goes into like, how do you achieve, you know,

11:29
the quality of cannabis that you wanted from the outset?

11:32
Have you achieved that?

11:34
What were kind of the steps that it took to get to that

11:36
as well as the consistency that you wanted?

11:43
Yeah, I mean, everybody knows weed is a loving plans.

11:47
You know, a lot of growers sing and talk to their plans

11:50
and try to deliver the love.

11:52
And I do believe that the more tender love and care

11:55
that you're giving to the plants is how much they can

11:57
I love you back and in return,

11:59
they give you better structure, better yield,

12:01
you know, a frosty or nugs.

12:04
And there's no other way around it.

12:06
You need to put in hard work

12:07
and you need to check up on them like they're your baby,

12:11
you know, only daily basis.

12:13
Right in the beginning it seems there's a lot of repetitive work and you might think

12:17
it is tedious but in a long run that's how everything is are.

12:21
You need to check up on them and they require your attention, requires your care on a daily

12:26
basis.

12:27
And as long as you hit all the points and you think and talk to them, tell them good night,

12:32
I think they're going to love you back and give you the right return.

12:35
And of course you're not going to feed your baby with some unknown fast food then don't

12:40
use some outside nutrient.

12:43
ever seen before or don't do crazy Frankenstein trying to feed your baby like a 5,000 calorie

12:49
meals, knowing where it's at and using the pH probe, you know, the PPM probe to try

12:55
to test out to know where nutrient level is at and from there, you know, that's your

13:00
food, that's what you have dialed down.

13:03
And the environment is also a nulla big factor.

13:06
It cannot be too hot, it cannot be too cold, you have to be right at the right temperature

13:10
zone.

13:13
And the right amount of seal tube plus a really efficient light and there you go.

13:19
You have the perfect combination to grow big yield, the maximum yield and fire flowers.

13:24
I remember what was that the summer of 2017 where that was an extremely hot summer we had

13:30
in Seattle and you were kind of getting set up and trying to just handle the heat in there.

13:36
How are things going, you know, seven years later with your kind of consistency?

13:43
and how are things going since then?

13:45
It's been such a while and you've been there every day,

13:48
putting in the work and, you know,

13:51
like paint a picture of kind of that,

13:53
how it's developed over the years.

13:56
And I'm sure there's so much more to say about that.

14:02
Yeah, I mean, every year is a battle and there's new things trying to accomplish.

14:07
And if you remember, you know, when I started my business when you were living here with

14:14
me, trying to see how everything's aren't helping me out, I only have three greenhouses

14:19
set up and now I have 10 plus of gigantic nursery.

14:24
And yeah, the first summer we had a heat stress, it was, it was rough.

14:29
We had to open up all the door, bring up all the fans.

14:32
Trying to keep the air moving around keep the temperature low while it is 90 degree out there without AC

14:38
It is impossible to go down

14:40
But what we had to do is to keep that airflow going and then bring that

14:45
New CO2 new moisture into the room and keep the air moving right and

14:51
Six to seven years down the road now, you know, we definitely progress a lot. I have put in

15:02
spending from three rooms to 10 rooms now,

15:05
production definitely quadrupled,

15:08
if not more, right?

15:09
And the quality and everything definitely is more balanced.

15:14
There's always better equipment, better ways,

15:16
and more efficient steps to keep improving your grow.

15:22
And never think that you are 100% set

15:27
because there's always new technology,

15:30
new techniques,

15:32
you know new ways of growing cannabis and I think as grow or as somebody got

15:38
all the college and decide to put myself into cannabis you know this is

15:44
lifestyle this is something that I've chosen to live down and enjoy the process

15:51
every day and trying to look to be better. Right this is why I like your story

15:54
because you were not given a blank check you you like you came out of college

16:02
figured it out on your own, you know, you didn't have like this infinite pot of money. So like,

16:07
your processes were super efficient. They weren't just, you know, huge facility,

16:12
top of the line, everything, like you made it work. So that's why, you know, this is super

16:17
interesting for people to hear because, you know, you don't hear stories like this very often.

16:23
So thank you for that.

16:27
What are you happy with the quality of your crop or things are things a bit more predictable at least than they were like.

16:37
You have employees you've I'm sure you you've had a range of employees you've had to work with how is dealing with people and plants that's kind of what I want to ask I guess.

16:49
today. Yeah, I mean, when when I started the business, business was small and we only

16:55
have three grow room and I was able to basically carry everything myself. But you know, as

17:01
how from three rooms to 10 rooms, it is almost impossible to carry it by yourself and there's

17:07
definitely other nominees that I need to work on. There's a lot of errands and I need to

17:13
focusing on and the amount of time I'd be able to spend garden are getting less and less.

17:19
I have come to a point that I become the set of eye, I become the eagle eye to go into the garden to look for

17:26
mistakes to look for things that needs to be improved and

17:30
Training your employee training your team while is a very important and most one of the most important step

17:36
If you if you want to get into a cannabis business is really labor intensive

17:42
You need skillful people knowing what they need to do and if you don't you need to train them the way you need them to be

17:49
And if it is someone that has enough knowledge,

17:51
then you need to try to syncing with them

17:53
because everybody has a very different approach

17:56
on grown cannabis.

17:57
And from there, it is just hard work

17:59
and years of accumulation, selecting the right genetic.

18:03
And always, there's always wasting proof.

18:06
And with the interesting about,

18:09
part about grown cannabis is every different strength

18:13
is a different thing.

18:14
You have to grow it in order to know what it likes.

18:19
some likes more calcium, some likes more magnesium, you know, I mean different

18:24
plates acts differently and you need to find their natural habitat, what they

18:29
like the most. And from there you give them different nutrients and they

18:33
will grow the way they should, you know. And putting a team together is

18:38
definitely the one of the hardest part. But it took me five, six years to train

18:43
just two guys to work with me that we sink hundred percent. We kind of like

18:49
battle, we know each other's thoughts and you have to trust your team or else you won't

18:55
be able to available yourself.

18:57
So that says, you know, everything's starting with putting together a stronger, grower team

19:02
and off from there into processing, into drying, you know, yeah.

19:08
When you're looking for a new hire, what kind of traits are you looking for?

19:11
Are you looking for someone who's like an expert or call himself an expert or are you

19:19
and start from the ground.

19:24
So Ken and Buzz is still relatively a new industry.

19:29
There are experts, you know,

19:31
there are people being growing for 20-something years

19:34
in the backyard.

19:36
There are some hidden character heroes out there

19:39
that are troopers.

19:40
They have full packs of knowledge.

19:43
And for me, it is, you know, I mean, I'm pretty young.

19:49
I started my way.

19:50
You kind of have to take down your nose, try

19:54
and making all the old and knows and track your steps.

20:00
You know,

20:03
from there working with someone and knowing what kind of style they like to grow

20:11
and then sink it from there, I think that's what my recommendation was. I'm sorry Tyler.

20:16
Oh, remind me the question again. Oh, and simply, you know, what kind of traits do you

20:21
look for in a person like basic traits? Like, have being an expert minded person that goes in

20:33
a little bit of that, but maybe someone who's just coming in fresh and willing to learn

20:38
that maybe you see as like an empathetic person that you could get along with, like,

20:42
what, how do you weigh in the beginning?

20:44
Because you've gone through employees, like, have you learned more of how to pick the people

20:49
that you know you can work with, like, earlier on?

20:55
I think most importantly, number one is passion.

20:58
You need to have passion in order

21:00
to work in the wheat industry.

21:01
It's highly repetitive and hot work.

21:04
That's number one.

21:05
As second is not lazy.

21:09
Oh, we know a lot of, you know, past smokers tend

21:12
to like to get high and not to do a lot of things.

21:15
But for us as growers, we are very efficient.

21:20
You need to look for someone that is not

21:25
not worry about sweating a lot,

21:28
not worry about putting some hot work.

21:30
And passion is what keeps everybody going in that terms.

21:34
And there's no other around.

21:36
It's everyday hot work.

21:39
And if without that passion,

21:41
someone is quickly gonna get burned out.

21:44
Like in my case, I have a lot of passion.

21:46
And it took me six, seven years to be where I am.

21:49
And a lot of players may be fall off

21:51
in the first couple of years

21:52
because you might not see that

21:55
Can't help us as look at it as you think it is and

21:58
Things legalization is it's a big things now and there are more legal state

22:04
We'd as become more like a commodity and there's a trend sometimes we'd are more expensive than the other times and there are times

22:11
Just nothing will be moving and you need to be able to have that passion hold it down still creating the best flower and knowing that

22:20
eventually people will come to you and then

22:25
your product. And I think that's very important. You know, having that passion, down to earth,

22:31
won't grind. That's a criteria you're looking for. Yeah, I appreciate that. And so you say like

22:39
seven years later, are you starting to see the lights at the end of the tunnel? Are you starting

22:43
to kind of see, like feel comfortable about where you are? Is there like a path to follow, or is it

22:49
still kind of where do we go from here when things are changing? Like you said,

22:55
pricing and things not being federally yet and just waiting around for things that are out of our control.

23:08
Yeah, I mean, everybody knows right now

23:10
the economy is a bit shaky.

23:13
I mean, we directly getting affecting by the economy

23:17
directly quite a lot since we are considered entertainment,

23:21
right?

23:22
People might not want to spend as much money in weed,

23:25
but on the other hand, it is something that I do believe

23:29
it is a culture has been filled up

23:31
throughout the past five, six years.

23:33
More and more states are legalized.

23:35
That means there are more consumers out there.

23:38
buying cannabis and the culture is getting more and more accepted.

23:43
Therefore, I think as long as you produce good flour, you know where your stands and you

23:49
control your cost, you can get all these factors down, you be able to survive in the industry.

23:56
And it is not always you be able to make money because how weed is a commodity, it can be

24:02
during the pandemic when everybody is smoking weed, when there's stimulus check, it can

24:06
go as expensive as you know.

24:08
Let's just say $2,000 a pound, right?

24:12
And for now, let's just say everything is slowing down.

24:16
You can see flour as cheap as probably $800 a pound.

24:20
And we're talking about it is a 50% difference.

24:23
But that also because during recession,

24:27
I mean, I'm sorry, during pandemic,

24:29
people, the grow or the farmer sees,

24:32
hey, the market is good, I should grow more.

24:34
But when you grow more, you don't crop it right now,

24:38
month down the road and when everybody thinks the same way, you suddenly have a

24:42
over surge in supply. So don't blindly follow others. You set your own schedule,

24:49
you set your own path and you're competing with yourself. You want to grow

24:54
better flower, you want to be better than yesterday. And I think that's always

24:57
matters. One single while peek it up, compare your flower, compare your product

25:02
with others. Knowing that you're competitive, knowing your causes there, put your

25:08
your plans. And I think a lot of growers out there don't like to associate with people.

25:14
And that's why they grow wheat in the first place. And as soon as you pick you up and look

25:19
a little bit knowing where you stand and knowing that you're putting to hot work, and eventually

25:27
it will get there. And for me, I'm still grinding and I'm still on the battle. My, my, you know,

25:38
and business has become a lot more steady.

25:42
But with this economy turbulence is definitely struggle.

25:47
But I'm still standing in there.

25:48
I'm still grinding.

25:50
I'm still fighting.

25:51
And there are always other ways to improve yourself, right?

25:56
When the economy is not good, you focusing on yourself,

26:00
elevating yourself and trying to produce higher quality,

26:04
seeing everything is slower, you don't have to grow as much.

26:08
they'll reduce your hat count, training your people,

26:12
getting a stronger team, you know,

26:14
looking to more ball marketing, strengthening yourself,

26:20
putting all the factors together

26:21
and eventually you're succeed.

26:23
And that's what I believe in,

26:24
that's what I'm fighting for right now.

26:26
Yeah, for doing this seven years,

26:28
you've been able to piece things

26:30
where you need to piece them to just keep going.

26:33
I know it's a very tough industry.

26:38
off to you. I kind of wanted to go into a question about sustainability and how

26:47
important sustainability is to your operation. Is it a big factor? Is it a small

26:52
factor? Is it just a pie in the sky idea? Like I'm this kind of, what question we

27:00
want to ask our guests on this show about that and how it can affect a farmer,

27:05
if it's not such a big deal, and how do you see it?

27:15
Yeah, you know, with our generation, I think, environment is a really big factor.

27:22
And a lot of us in the industry, we love nature.

27:26
And that's why we smoke weed, that's why we grow weed, we love peace.

27:30
And what it comes down to environment, sustainability is one of the most important factor.

27:35
And this is very serious thing.

27:37
And when you start a business creating a farm, you will, when you grow up to economic skill,

27:42
you bring pollution.

27:45
that you do as a business owner, that is one of the biggest things that is on my mind

27:50
all the time. Do I put too much nutrient, are these nutrients going down the drain? Am I

27:55
using too much of it? Electricity, that not being efficient. Am I pumping too much

28:01
CL2, that I'm adding more CL2 into an atmosphere? That is probably a no, but you know, things

28:06
that you would think about. And I think, you know, sustainability is one of the most

28:15
know, I like to live no ways and convert all my energy

28:18
spend into weights because you don't want to have any ways.

28:23
You want to, and you want to convert every energy,

28:26
every nutrient, every dollar you spend into biomass.

28:30
And therefore, you be able to have a return.

28:33
And that's where sustainability comes in.

28:36
Because the more sustainable you are,

28:38
means you're leaving way last waste.

28:39
And being you are being more efficient.

28:42
And with all my steps, I try to take,

28:44
that's what I do.

28:45
And luckily I have a chemistry background. I know to how to play with nutrient and seems like that's one of the biggest pollutants

28:53
And for the alapar, I mean, comfortable environment definitely the amount of electricity that you're consuming is your second carbon footprint

29:01
And out of that carbon footprint, it's harder to get around because you're gonna have a lot of light that's going to create a lot of heat

29:09
A lot of heat, if you are growing indoor you need a lot of AC, a lot of HVAC tonnage to bring it down

29:15
down. And if you use everything,

29:19
auto technology, HPS or double ended,

29:22
you kind of walk into a vicious cycle where it was like that and it's still like

29:26
this for majority of the grow.

29:28
But what happens is you're consuming more energy using a lasting,

29:33
last energy efficient light,

29:34
a meeting more heat back to the environment and you need more coolage to bring

29:39
down the temperature.

29:40
It becomes a vicious cycle.

29:42
And what I will say,

29:43
a big things that I've been looking at,

29:45
Recently is that I find that you know LED light has become a

29:49
very mature

29:51
Product on the market which we talk about HPS emitting more heat

29:56
Versus LED using 30% to 40% less energy and emitting more less heat and converting

30:03
Into more spectrum it making more efficient and with less heat into out you need less electricity to run your H back

30:12
And that becomes you are being more efficient

30:15
your light, but also your HVAC.

30:18
And saying the LED light emitting better

30:21
efficient, more stronger wavelength,

30:23
and more pack spectrums, that is delivering and mimicking

30:27
sunlight more efficiently than the traditional HPS.

30:31
And with that, it'd be able to make your plants produce

30:35
wider spectrum of terpene profile, or just bring

30:40
it's more natural habitat out, more perfectly

30:45
And that's something that I've been testing and working on,

30:48
testing out a lot of different manufacturing.

30:51
And that's what I find recently.

30:53
And I think that it is something very key important factor

30:57
in sustainability.

30:59
Yeah, that lighting can cost for almost half the energy you should,

31:02
if you consider the age back as well.

31:05
Any other thoughts on sustainability or any other actions

31:10
you can take outside of the lighting?

31:15
Yes, absolutely.

31:17
We're always talking of the growing side.

31:19
We can talk about that business side,

31:21
because you need to grow, you need to draw,

31:23
you need to process, you need to come up

31:24
with a beautiful brand that representing you

31:28
and your ideology, your company, and then go out there and sell.

31:32
And we all know when it comes to packaging,

31:34
it is a very big waste.

31:36
And really, there's no other way around

31:40
about sustainability with packaging,

31:42
because we all know we go

31:45
package you buy the weed and you tear open you finish the product inside you

31:50
throw it back away. Essentially the way I see about a packaging it is just pure

31:55
garbage you buy garbage you put it in there it's out. I personally don't like it

32:01
but that's how the economy works that people demand that flowers in the

32:05
package. But from there you definitely want to keep in my what kind of material

32:10
that you're using since I've really highly turned over. We're talking about if

32:15
plastic you gonna have

32:19
Targos loads of plastic waste created by just your farm if you don't watch over it, right?

32:25
And for me, I like to look into

32:28
Recycle material that's absolutely looking to buy a degradable material, looking into

32:36
packaging that

32:38
You know gives it back that will go out there and then trying to make the environment better

32:44
What I see in packaging is there's no other way to get around but being

32:49
a business owner you have to be aware. Some things are cheaper than the others and usually cheaper

32:55
product means higher pollution because they are cheaper. Some cheaper plastic just don't break

33:01
are not biodegradable therefore they are cheaper and you gotta know where it's at and be able to

33:07
control your cost from seat to cell allows you to spend a little bit more if you care about

33:19
We don't want to pollute anything.

33:21
We want to smoke, we, and be able to go into the trail and enjoy that forest.

33:26
50 years down the road still.

33:28
We want our kids.

33:29
We want our next generation to enjoy this beautiful planet and still be able to go into the

33:34
wilderness and enjoy the environment.

33:36
So very important sustainability.

33:38
And are you seeing people reacting to your branding and using sustainable packaging?

33:46
I mean, some people just care about their bottom line.

33:49
And are you seeing an uptick in people that are purchasing based on taking these actions?

33:59
Like is that part of your niche and is it effective?

34:01
Yeah, I will say that.

34:06
Oh, yeah, it is definitely a selling point,

34:08
you know, living the Pacific Northwest,

34:10
I think the environmental awareness is really huge.

34:13
People do believe in global warming out here

34:16
and believe that the human cost, you know,

34:20
a pollution is real and everybody will like

34:23
to take a take in it.

34:24
And by getting your word out,

34:26
telling people that you are sustainable,

34:28
you are helping certain kind of environmental awareness

34:32
group that really takes a long way.

34:36
Of course, you want to be able to reach out to the community knowing who we are targeting to and from there

34:43
As long as people who cares about environment, which is possibly in the positive north one northwest most people do

34:49
we do pretty good out here and

34:52
I hope very hope one day. Maybe we can have the you know the milk jar idea where people be able to

35:00
Recycle their we jar somebody collecting at their door and then recycle those jars

35:06
use plastic. But that could be done in the smaller community, maybe nine in the giant city.

35:13
But yeah, we do our parts and we try to push it and people who cares about it, they're

35:19
willing to spend that additional dollar. Well, maybe not that expensive just because

35:24
we've been legalized and we like to get good product that is affordable, that is beautiful

35:29
out there without all this crazy hypes. And nicer of the packaging means more than

35:36
more waste that you have to put into it.

35:38
So it is, it's hard to see younger generation

35:40
with definitely like that flashiness,

35:43
but people that who has more environmental awareness

35:45
will try to harmful that, you know,

35:48
buy the great about packaging

35:49
and you definitely do have those,

35:53
a lot of organic people,

35:55
they just trying to look for the minimal packaging,

35:57
they don't even want you to have much,

35:58
they just want a tiny bags and that's all it is.

36:01
You know, so finding your,

36:03
you're finding your group

36:06
pushing in them and if you really believe in sustainability and the clean environment then find a group they will support you and

36:14
You know at this world doesn't build by its own in needs of group and you need partners like that to get your words out, right?

36:21
That's totally right. Well, I appreciate your talk on that

36:25
You know next things for for Washington tower farms. What are the next steps for your farm? Where do you see yourself the next five years?

36:36
things like that.

36:36
And what do you have to say about the next few years

36:39
over there in Everdeen?

36:45
Wow, you know, with a slow down economy,

36:48
really is hard to predict what's coming up,

36:50
but I will love to stay optimistic and not look down.

36:54
There's always opportunity to be found in any given time.

36:58
And I would like to see that during this small slow down,

37:04
I have a ability to kind of look back

37:06
to tweeting a little bit in my garden

37:08
to make it more efficient.

37:10
You know, I mention about testing out a lot of LED light.

37:15
actually in a process of switching out into if not the whole farm trying to gas much as I could

37:22
into LED light that be able to drop my electricity bill lower that be able to make my AC not work as much

37:29
prolong my lifetime and giving the ability to upgrading my quality of flower by using a full

37:37
respect drum and this and that. That's on my gross eye. I've been growing for six seven years there's

37:45
prove other than buying new adapting equipments and with the slowing down economy, we're going

37:50
to work with what we have.

37:52
And the only thing I'm wanting to get for is a better energy converter, which is the

37:59
delight.

38:01
And light is something it's a perpetual cycle.

38:04
You will not be able to use it forever.

38:06
So we're about six, seven years.

38:08
It's about time for it to switch.

38:10
That's what we're getting on.

38:12
And on the other side, packaging is something that we're working on.

38:15
You know, as well, I mentioned about, you know, when the business while you are highly repetitive, you are trying to keep the wheel going.

38:22
You have no time to look back to trying to tune a little bit looking for better packaging.

38:28
You know, that is more environmental friendly.

38:30
And that is something that we're working on.

38:32
We're actually revamping our brand, redoing our website to adding more mission into it.

38:37
Kind of doing like a small reset with this slowing down economy, which at the end, it feels like it's a benefit to us.

38:45
because a lot of bigger boys, they might be struggling, they have all this factor down then,

38:50
they are missing all this factor that they can actually grow in a slower economy.

38:55
And for somebody who just started it, don't be too upset about, oh, the economy's not good,

39:02
I won't be able to sell my weed. Almost every business in started, you have a incubating period.

39:08
And that incubating period can be one to three years or if not more. And during that incubating

39:15
to bring out your best product,

39:18
trying to find your position in the market,

39:22
going out there, networking.

39:25
And if the business in the economy is good,

39:27
then everybody is running, everybody is sprinting.

39:30
But with the slowing down economy,

39:32
everybody is kind of sitting still

39:34
and you kind of have the time to catch up.

39:36
And I would like to see it as opportunity.

39:39
So for me, I am doing a catch up game

39:45
giving me better flower, working on my image, on my branding, and going out there and trying

39:51
to do some more networking.

39:53
As some people, failing the business, are they going to available a lot more opportunity

39:58
out?

40:00
Known your numbers, known your cost, known your return is very, very important as a business

40:06
man.

40:08
You just have to know where you are at and keep on grinding.

40:15
It's a grind.

40:17
It's for sure it's a grind.

40:19
Well, that kind of goes into my next question.

40:21
You know, some people out there, maybe they want to start growing a commercial facility,

40:26
or they just want to grow cannabis in their home, and they don't know where to start.

40:30
What kind of advice would you give to somebody like that, who's on the fence?

40:35
I know there's two different, completely different things, but maybe just starting with the guy who, you know,

40:41
is interested in weed for whatever reason.

40:45
to get started growing. What would you say to that person?

40:50
Yeah, for someone who wanted to start a cannabis business,

40:54
the recommendation is always have your numbers right.

41:01
Everything starts with planning, preventing.

41:05
This also goes with growing.

41:06
You won't have prevention instead of reacting to whatever is coming out.

41:10
You want to prevent outbreaks before the outbreak happens.

41:14
Same thing with running a business.

41:16
You want to make sure you're your cost.

41:20
You can sell to your cost and return ratio is correct.

41:27
You're compatible enough with the industry and most of the information that you'll be

41:32
able to find on Google knowing how to grow, knowing what kind of equipment to get and

41:38
you need to have the knowledge of putting those pieces together and it comes down to planning.

41:45
Numbers, numbers, numbers, I think for anybody who wants to do business, numbers, number

41:49
one.

41:50
and have your knowledge, have your passion,

41:53
and it is gonna be a rock road.

41:56
It's just no other way around really.

42:00
Just buckle up, get ready,

42:01
and I put your hats down to grow.

42:04
It's gonna be a, it's a long way.

42:07
And investing in efficient machine,

42:10
Equipment is definitely absolutely the key.

42:12
It gets you a long way.

42:15
It'd be able to make your 10 hours work

42:17
and create short into five hours.

42:18
It can make your yield from five pounds

42:20
So investing to efficient equipment, investing to things that is going to bring you good value.

42:31
Maybe starting with sick and hand, who knows?

42:33
You do what you need to do as long as the number matches up.

42:37
That's my biggest advice I would say.

42:40
And for people who want to grow at home, just have fun.

42:45
Just like growing some tomato in the backyard, you're going to eat that tomato, you're going

42:48
to love it.

42:50
because you put your love, you put your care, it is not just wheat. So you're gonna love it.

42:55
And enjoy that time with the plans and you will understand how hard it is to grow fire, hot wheat.

43:03
And you will, you will thank your local grow next time when you go into the store buying the fire wheat.

43:10
All right, I appreciate that.

43:13
Final question. You're talking about working so hard, grinding every day, going out there.

43:20
You're crazy work schedule and managing these people and managing all the things that could possibly pop up in a cannabis grow and you know, you're down time, you're time with family, you're time with friends. I know you have a family in Seattle.

43:33
You said you like to fish with your dad like what are you doing to kind of take it easy and take a breather from all this.

43:42
Uh, yeah, I mean, work-life balance is a heart one and I can...

43:47
I'm gonna warn those staff who are trying to get in industry.

43:50
Uh, once you put your feet in, um, growing is your life, basically.

43:55
And it's hard to...

43:57
They... I mean, it's a living plan.

43:59
It requires 24-7 attention.

44:02
Um, in the beginning, you might not be able to go to the bad because you're not sure

44:06
the baby are growing well or not.

44:08
It is very different from growing from a closet to a gigantic warehouse

44:12
And finding that work like balance, you just have to get to it, sometimes that.

44:21
You just have to let it go and giving yourself a short break

44:26
and come right back to it,

44:28
running a really tight schedule.

44:30
As you're saying them, running a really, really tight schedule,

44:34
I try to put everything in there still.

44:36
And luckily I'm still young.

44:37
I'd be able to have that stamina and energy

44:39
to keep it going.

44:41
Yeah, I mean, fishing, hiking, everything.

44:45
I mean, it's part of life.

44:46
You need to know how to de-stress.

44:47
You need to find that balance

44:49
or else even you are working with plants.

44:51
I sometimes you're gonna burn out and burning out as things that you love it is not

44:57
enjoyable as at all there are period of a time I wore too much that you start

45:03
questioning why did you do this? I

45:06
Love plans. I like the chillness of it. I like the culture about it and the weak culture is not about

45:13
It's about chill is about peace, you know and

45:21
around is not about weed is about being entrepreneur you need to grind so much.

45:25
Force yourself, put your schedule out, follow your schedule and get yourself that rest.

45:31
It's absolutely needed.

45:34
Well, John, I want to thank you so much for being our first guest on the podcast.

45:38
You taught me so much out there in Aberdeen when I had the chance to stay with you and

45:42
so awesome to talk to you.

45:44
These many years later, we're going to have to catch up after the show on a few things.

45:49
But I hope that you can come back on the podcast when we have another episode in the future

45:53
and you let us know how things are going.

45:58
Absolutely, I have what I did.

46:00
Okay, on this one, you know, this is also my first podcast as well.

46:04
And I bring through Facebook, Facebook interviews, but never being on a podcast.

46:08
So thank you.

46:09
Thank you so much.

46:10
We've learned a lot.

46:11
I appreciate you and get some rest and talk to you next time.

46:15
Thank you.

46:21
Bye.